The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - Reacting to Coach K's Comments; Former Wash. St. Guard Taylor Rochestie on his Grind, Tony Bennett Influence, Recruiting Klay Thompson, 10-year Int'l Pro Career

Episode Date: December 11, 2020

In this episode, Doug dives into Coach K's comments second guessing the plans to play games during COVID, and talks with former Washington State Guard Taylor Rochestie discusses his path from growing up in Santa Barbara, transferring from Tulane to rebuilding Washington State, Tony Bennett's influence, recruiting Klay Thompson, how he's been able to carve out a successful 11-year pro career in Europe and China, and his new motivational book on living with an optimistic, positive attitude. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Give with meaning. Hey, welcome into the newest all ball. I'm your boy, Doug Gottlieb, and I've been promising some thoughts on NBA, some thoughts on college basketball. I only say this about the back and forth now with Mike Schoefsky saying we should pause for a second. And he didn't say we should not be playing. Let's be honest about Mike Shoshchowski. He did not say we should take a month break. He just said like, let's get our bearings here.

And of course, you got coaches like Nate Oates. And I got to be honest with you. I've said the same to others saying, as he's, Nate's Alabama's head coach, he's been on the all ball podcast. You should listen to his life story. It's pretty amazing. But he's like, look, would Mike Shishvsky hadn't lost two non-conference home games, be saying we should take a.

break, of course not. But this is my stance with football. This is my stance with basketball. First of all, to the idea, and I've heard Jay Billis say this, and it's a, I don't like when things are misrepresented. I understand that Jay and many of you believe that college basketball players should be paid. My argument is, was, has always been the scholar, the entrance to college, the scholarship, the support, the, not just the gear, the coaching, all of that stuff. Do you have a kid? Do you have a child? If you do, and you play them in AU basketball, okay, now add on top a strength coach,

trainer, dietitian, food, room, board. How much would you be paying a month for your kid? And that's not even the highest level. You're talking about the best of the best of the best. It's freaking expensive, right? Not paying any of those fees. plus you're not paying for college. And you're getting the free promotion of Dick Vital and Jay Billis and myself and Steve

Levins saying how great these guys are. There's a value in all of that. Plus getting into school, you probably couldn't get into on your own. So I believe that it is you are being compensated. Fairly so. Maybe even above your actual level of importance, most people are being more comp. It's a much better deal than anybody give you credit. But this idea that college athletes, because they're on campus by themselves and

in some sort of bubble now is something new and different. That is, in fact, bullshit. That is the epitome of bullshit. Every year, Thanksgiving break, Christmas break, Martin Luther King Jr. break. Spring break, if you're still playing, you're on campus by yourself. You get per diem when stuff's not open,

so you get a little bit of extra money. And you're practicing, you're playing, you're hanging around. It's actually, in many ways, the best time to be on a college kid. campus because you don't have the nuisance of traffic or anything. You just go to work out. You go back to your place. You can hang out with your boys. You can get shots up whenever.

College town is usually empty. So this idea that somehow this is something new and different. Sure, the testing and the need to quarantine and not go out and mingle and go to parties. Like, okay, but the fact is the idea that we're here by ourselves is somehow new and different. That's bullshit. Anybody who's ever play basketball knows that's bullshit. You're around all Christmas break. Nobody's around.

So, and you're safer at home. You're safer there than you are at home. At home, you don't have a trainer. You don't have COVID tests, you know. And you're not going home and sitting in your room and not doing anything. You're going home and hanging out with your boys and going to a gym and getting shots up. You're better off. You're safer on campus.

Continue on. Go through the protocols and we'll be fine. I don't. I agree with Mike Chachevsky. We should take a breath and make sure we're doing the right thing. But when we do take a breath, we'll realize. we're safer. It's very normal for this time of year to be on campus by yourself. And within reason, you play as many games as you can. That's where the fun is.

The practice is where it's not fun. All right, let me get you to Taylor Rochester. He was a very talented guard at Washington State. His path getting to Washington State via Tulane growing up in Santa Barbara is interesting in and of itself. We'll get to that. We'll get to Tony Bennett and Dick Bennett, what was like to be a part of the first team that Tony Bennett coached at Wazoo. and whether or not he's surprised the level of success that Virginia has had. But I also want to ask about playing overseas, and this unbelievable experience he's had, the big clubs that he's played for as a guy who was very lightly recruited

becoming kind of a superstar in Eurohoops. His entire career. And then he has a book that's set to come out. Wait to you hear his tale. Here he is, StarGuard, formerly of Washington State, originally from Santa Barbara, California, Taylor Rochester. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app. For general perspective, you're in Belgrade playing for Red Star.

Fans in the arenas? There's a couple hundred fans that they're allowing right now, mostly scouts and people involved in the organization and stuff. But when you're used to having, they have an arena here that's 22,000, and they pack it out. and it's crazy European soccer-like fans with fliers in the gym. And now to play in an empty arena where you can hear the defensive, you know, called out plays and plans from the coaches, it's a whole different atmosphere. But you have to remember that, you know,

hundreds of thousands of fans are watching on their phones and watching on their TVs. And so they're still just as intense. They're just not in the gym. Okay. So we're going to get back to your elite degree and get to your travels. Let's start where it all began. Santa Barbara, California, right? Really tough.

hard streets of Santa Barbara, California. You think gang shootings, graffiti everywhere, your first memories of hoop is where? Well, the interesting thing about that is that when you think about tough upbring, when it comes to basketball, that's not an easy place to grow up and play. Because to get noticed, I mean, you have to go into L.A.

You've got to go to Las Vegas. You've got to go to the tournaments. You've got to go East Coast. There's not a lot of scouts. and not a lot of players coming out of Santa Barbara, although there's some good talent. But I grew up in a little bit in Houston, Texas, and I was born in Houston. And so I just loved basketball, and I love the Houston Rock that's kind of growing up. And my dad actually worked in the building of the old summit.

We would go over and watch some games after school. My mom and dad would be there. And so coming to Santa Barbara, I just always had a feel for basketball and just knew that that's what I wanted to do when I graduated. sixth grade they did they made a little video on what we wanted to do when we're you know older and I said I'm going to play division one basketball and then I'm going to go play basketball overseas or in australia and that was that was sixth grade and I didn't even know about the leagues never seen a game never anything but I just knew that I wanted to play basketball and I want to travel the world and so

I had this vision when I was younger and then it just kind of came to fruition that's crazy that's crazy what was high school like? High school was amazing. I mean, I had a blessed, blessed upbringing. I had an older brother that's Alex, who's basically my best friend. He was a senior when I was a freshman, so I had a really amazing transition into school where he kind of took me under his wing

and his friends were there. And so I was kind of a jock. I had friends that some played sports, some didn't play sports, and Santa Barbara was an amazing. place to grow up and call home and right by the beach. I mean, there's not much else you can say everything you need there. And basketball was great, had great coaches, and was fortunate enough to play with some of my friends and have a great team. What I remember is I remember my dad talking

at Bob Williams. You play for my dad. How many summers? Two or three summers. Yeah, Branch West. So I remember you playing for my dad and my dad was like, the craziest thing. I talked to Bob. Williams, a kid from Santa Barbara, and he didn't offer him a scholarship. And he was just he couldn't, there was, part of him was mad because he, Bob was a good guy. He liked Bob, like there was no bad feelings or whatever. Yeah. He just couldn't. Why do you think it was they didn't offer you?

Well, I think, I think recruiting is one of the toughest things you could do, you know. There's players that are good at one level or good at one situation and then who knows what they're going to be like at the next level or in a different environment. I think there's a lot of pressure to bring in local kids. I think that when you look at just raw potential talent, there's so many great players out of Southern California and the California area that it's difficult. Most of the time you're bringing in one guard out of everybody, you know,

so for two years and you might have two point guards at your school that are on scholarship. So there's no hard feelings there. Bob and I are friends, everybody at UCSB. They've always been welcoming to me. I go out there and practice with the team. when I was in high school. I wanted to go there. I was in a room with him one time,

and there was an award ceremony where he was giving a speech, and I was thinking to my head, man, I know he's going to offer me a scholarship. But I think one of the best things was me having to leave my hometown and go out and try to prove myself in a different environment.

I think that's what pushed me to be better, and I've always had a chip on my shoulder, and that's one of the reasons why I'm still playing basketball. So you went to Tulane, and as a Dave Dickerson was your coach, right? It was Sean Finney my freshman year, and then Dickerson took over sophomore year. Okay. So you, and I think you were late signing, right?

Like, you were available late. And you go and you sign it too late. Now, Tulane is an amazing university, an amazing city, but could not be any different than from Santa Barbara if you try, right? Like Garden District in New Orleans is incredible, but very, very different. What do you remember about touching down? You're like, I'm in New Orleans. you land it's August, it's hot as hell.

Like what, what are your memories of that like? Well, you got to keep in mind, like you said, it was the late recruiting. Your dad called me and said, let's go to one last tournament. It was a Houston classic or something around Houston, Kingwood Classic or something like that. And I went and played well and got offered a couple of scholarships. And before that, that was like spring of my senior year at high school. So before that, I was going on recruiting trips to D2, D3.

And so the idea of playing Division 1 basketball, that was my goal. So I was so excited when I showed up on campus. And I had different expectations. They were telling me that there was a senior point guard that was their main guy and that I'd be learning my freshman year and coming maybe off the bench a little bit and playing my sophomore year. And within the second, third game, freshman year, I was starting and had a role for myself. And so it was just kind of a whirlwind that months before I didn't know I was going to get a Division 1 scholarship and even thought about walking on in something. places. Okay. So, so, so, so when you get there, uh, but what was, what was it actually like? Like, what was, what were the memories of like you get, because they, they have a tiny

little gym, right? And there, and you're like, you introduce yourself people. You're not like a highly rated guy. You're from Santa Barbara. What was, what was school like? What was the experience of the teammates like? What, what do you remember about those first couple of The funny thing is I remember school being tough. I mean, it's one of those places. You hear this idea that like athletes get an easy, easy route and they really help you out. I was in a, I think it was an acting class. And I must have been a bad actor.

But my teacher told me that if you leave, even for school function, you're never going to get that knowledge back. So I can't give you credit for the class. I said, well, I'm going away for a basketball game. And they said, it didn't matter. You know, you have to be in class. You've got to read the book. You've got to participate. So the school was definitely, definitely difficult.

Basketball-wise, it was great because, like I said, I just wanted to play Division 1 basketball. And I've never passed the looks test. And that's part of the hunger that I have. And I love that. So I love showing up every day and competing. So as far as basketball-wise, I was just hungry to prove that I belong. And, you know, I wanted to earn my scholarship.

Okay. So I believe the guy's name was Marcus Kinzer, right? Who is the senior point guy? Is it right? Yeah. What was he like to you? Because like you show up and he's the guy and you end up kind of taking his spot. Take me through that relationship.

Well, that relationship is actually crazier than you think. It's funny that you ask because when I showed up, he was a little standoffish, not because that was his character, just because we just kind of moved in two different circles where, like, basketball-wise, we were there, but he had been there for three years. He had his own friends. He had his own stuff going on. And so we didn't really communicate as much. He was a great leader.

great teammate to have and always led by example, and that it wasn't until later on, that he's got his whole skill wing academy going on right now, and he's doing a bunch of workouts, and I messaged him a bunch of years ago, and actually he flew out to California to work me out and to help me train for going back out and playing in your league. And so we kept in touch, and we became real close,

and he's an amazing trainer, and just we become great friends over the years. So it started off as maybe more of an interesting. intimidate anything. He's the big guy on campus. And then it just turned into a good friendship. Even when you're starting ahead of him? So we ended up starting together. So they kind of had like a two, two guard start. What they realized is that it could be a good attack. And that was a time where Tony Bennett always talks about T&T. He played with another guard. I was playing with Derek Lowe at Washington State. So it was kind of a two point guard system. And then so they just decided that

the two small guards would work and we played well together. So you're playing, you're I think, all freshman team in Conference USA, right? And like kind of like you made it. You go home for the summer. And did you come back and there was Katrina? Were you at home when Katrina? I remind me of the time of Katrina. So I got into, I got back to New Orleans the day before Katrina or the day before we had to evacuate. And so I put some stuff in my apartment. And then they said, well, you can't move into your apartment until tomorrow. So I wouldn't stay to the friend's house. And I woke up and everybody was talking about being sad because we had to evacuate. And I had to evacuate the year before as a freshman. We left for about a week and then we came back to school. So everybody was

sad to leave. We just got there and people wanted to party. They were back at school. And they're like, they didn't think it was that big of a deal. So some people were debating whether they're going to leave or not, even if it was a mandatory evacuation. And so luckily, my mom is living in Houston at the time. And so I went to my mom's apartment in Houston to ride out the hurricane. And little did we know, we weren't going to come back. And so I got a call after about a week that Texas A&M was going to host our team. And so they moved our team and a couple other teams from Tulane to Texas A&M. So I was still playing for Tulane, but attending school at Texas A&M University, which was crazy.

Well, yeah, I know. And I've been to both campuses, right? like Tulane is it's almost like a museum right like you're like that's what like a classic school is supposed to kind of look like. Yeah. A&M is classic kind of Texas. Everything is gigantic, big, beautiful, mostly brand new, but but just gigantic, right? On scale, just so much bigger than anything else.

But then you're you're living in this weird existence, right? You go to Tulane, you play for Tulane, you go to school at A&M. Where did you guys live? So I think they, first of all, they did a great job hosting us. So I will always have love for Texas A&M and the Aggies. But I think they were thinking of breaking down certain buildings and constructing up something else. And they found apartments that were right off campus for us. And I think it was our soccer team, our volleyball team, our basketball team.

And so they hosted us all there. And it was crazy for us because now we're walking 45 minutes across campus when we were used to walking five minutes across campus. everything's so big in Texas. And things were looking up, and I was just excited to be back playing and fortunate that we weren't in New Orleans. But that's where I tore my knee. And they told me that I'd be out for a bunch of months. So now I'm sitting at a campus of a school that I didn't choose, and I'm 45, one hour crutching my way to class. And my coach is standing in front of the door, making sure I'm on time and sitting in the front row.

And it was just a crazy experience. Okay. So you tore your HCL there. thought you taught it when you got to Wazoo. So what was the conversation like now? Because now Dave Dickerson's your coach. And so they, so wait, did he get the job? I forget, because I thought you guys played it in New Orleans,

some of your games as well at University of New Orleans. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman. documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Hey, everyone, it's Ryder Strong and Will Ferdell from PodMeets World. And now the PodMeets Twirled podcast. We're two men who were completely clueless to reality TV, who now have covered Dancing with the Stars, traitors, and we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor.

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Agency, the ability to know that we're the experts in our own body. On the podcast cultivating her space, Dr. Dom and Terry Lomax create a space where black women can show up fully. and be heard. I wholeheartedly think, you know, you hit 30, you shouldn't have to share one with anybody. Mm-hmm. From navigating friendships and healing to setting boundaries

and prioritizing your mental health. These are real, honest conversations. We don't always get to have out loud. Totally unreasonable with different parts of life, right? Like, oh, have all three meals and make sure you're mindful during all of them? Absolutely not. During one meal, I'm standing.

I'm standing and handing my children food. Because healing empowerment and resilience aren't just ideas, their practices. And this Mental Health Awareness Month, there's no better time to pour back into yourself. Listen to cultivating her space on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. So the first semester, the first semester was at Texas A&M. And so that's where the season started. And Dave Dickerson had just taken over that year.

And so he's a great guy, great coach, and he was about to take over Maryland. And I think that he wanted to kind of pave his own path and got offered the job of Tulane, which is great. So he moved his family down there. And within a month or so of being there, Hurricane Katrina happened. We get displaced. We go to Texas A&M. So he's trying to lead us and group us at Texas A&M. So when I tore my knee there, there was a big debate about what was going to happen as far as getting back to New Orleans.

Because my heart was in New Orleans. My heart was with Tulane University. but I think all the sports were going to be using one small training room facility, and there was a bunch of question marks about what was going to be open, not open. I'd heard mold was in certain buildings, and, you know, you just hear these different stories. And I just figured at that time that I needed to transfer or find a different place that I could recover, rehab, and just get back to playing basketball. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this Valentine's with 1-800flowers.com,

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Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Okay, so as I recall it, and again, this is, my dad's no longer with us. I can't be calling him for the story now. can't pop in. I remember him saying, like, he called Tony and said, Tony, I got a point card you have to take. And I think he had, you know, again, based upon his perspective, he had talked Tony into Clay as well. How did it go down with you getting from Tulane to Santa Barbara to Washington State? First of all, your dad was the best recruiter of all time. So he would sit, you would sit

put me on a three-way call and he would say, okay, don't say anything. I'm about to call one of these coaches and you're going to hear, you're going to hear what they're having to say about you. So those are the best calls of all time. And I think all the coaches knew that the players were on the other end. But I think it was a combination. Tony Bennett had reached out to me out of high school and they didn't have a scholarship at the time.

And we're both smaller lefty point guards. So maybe he saw something in me that he had and he connected. that way and said, you know, and what do you really say when a lot of coaches will call and say walk on in my program. And of course, you want to believe that they really love you and they really want you to be there, but you never really know. And so he called me when I decided to leave. I talked to your dad and I talked to some other people and he started making some calls. And then when they realized I wanted to transfer and now they had a scholarship. So he, he was talking to me. I think it was Christmas Day and I'm in Santa Barbara. They had given us, you know,

six days off from Tulane to go home. And Christmas day, I was getting a call from my Tulane coach. I was getting a call from Tony Bennett. He said, why don't you fly up and we can see Washington State. And then David Dickerson was asking what my decision was. And I told him that I wouldn't be coming back. And then so I'm sitting there with a torn knee. It's Christmas time. And I need, I need to find a school. And so Tony Bennett took a big chance. He flew me up to go see a game. I had a Southern California hoodie and some light sweats. And he flew me up to Pullman, Washington. And I started in Spokane.

It was like negative 10 outside, it felt like. And I was going to see a game in Spokane Arena against Arizona. Did they win? They won the first part of the first half. They actually had a great team. That was when it was still Dick Bennett. So Dick Bennett was the coach. And they had a great team, great coach.

great individuals, and they were just turning the program around where you could see the difference in the games they were playing and they had, that's the foundation for the future. And my first year, there was actually Tony's first year. Was there ever a thought of like, oh, my God, the play so slow. Because that's not technically your style basketball. Well, I think at that time I just wanted to play in the pack 10. that was my goal. I grew up with USC, UCLA, watching them on TV, an opportunity to play in the Pact 10 and to be able to play basically at home in some of those games. That meant everything.

And I didn't really know how slow the offense was. I had heard about it. But then again, I wasn't really recruited out of high school. Always a chip in my shoulder. I just wanted to win games. And so when they offered the scholarship, I was ready to take it. Okay, so you, I mean, it's actually crazy your squad. Like if you go back and look. Because people always say, well, like Clay, he didn't play with anybody. Like your first year, you had Kyle Weaver who played in the league. And you had Aaron Baines on the team, you know, Tony's connections down in Australia.

So your sophomore year coming off in ACL, you don't play the whole season. You're not eligible until semester. what was a different place, different style, different coaching? And again, this is before Clay arrives. And you have your boy Derek Lowe, who's a junior at the time kind of established. Yeah. Okay. What was that year like that?

Well, the interesting thing was, so I tore my knee at Texas A&M. And then when I arrived at Washington State, after a little while, I was having some pain in my knee. And then they told me I needed a second surgery. And they said I was trying to rehab so fast that, you know, they need to go back in and clean it out. So that just leveled me because I was in a new place. Now it's my third school. I'm trying to figure out what's going on and trying to work my way back on the team. And so my first season playing the beginning, I don't even know if they had me on minute

restriction or whatever it might have been. And I was wearing a knee sleeve. And to age myself, that knee sleeve was very thick. It wasn't like some of the knee sleeves that they have now. And it just looked like I came off of surgery. So it wasn't until about halfway through the season when I decided one game to take the sleeve off. And I think we were playing at Udub on a rivalry game. And it just, things just kind of took over from there. And about halfway through the season, I went from, you know, playing small

minutes off the bench to being a starter. And it kind of took over my sophomore year. And then it went through the end of my senior year. Did you know Aaron Baines would be the skitt? I'm a big Aaron Bain supporter because anybody that plays that hard and doesn't care about getting hit and we'll just do whatever the coach says and just run through a wall for you. He's one of the best screen setters. He's one of the best role man, big man, nice guy. He's just ready to play basketball. So I always believed in him, he just needed to find the right

place at the right time. Yeah. In the old blocker-mover offense, he is definitely a blocker. There's, there's no question. How did you adjust to that style? Because look, it is good, clean basketball and once you're kind of a convert to it, you're like, you're all in because you

know where the shots come. You know, you just guys, you wear dudes out. Like no one wants to guard anybody in that I can't imagine being on the second team in practice. Like here's, okay, I can the example. So my first year at Notre Dame, I was, it was like, I was kind of promised. I think that's why I went there. I was at the start.

And the first couple weeks of practice, like we're playing against the motion offense, which it didn't really run in high school. And you have these gigantic dudes set in these screens. And it was basically a blocker mover without, we call it a two side motion or whatever. It's basically kind of blocker mover. And I just remember being on the gold team. The gold team was the second team. and it was the worst.

Like they're working out their offense and you're just getting screened and your neck hurts, your back hurts. And it is the worst existence on earth. I cannot imagine being at Tony Bennett's practice and being on the second team like that. If that's that motivation to be on the first team, nothing is. Well, I think part of it was we, when the years I was playing there, we experienced a lot of success. And so I think when you're going from winning games to practice,

then that confidence kind of carries over. I think it would have been a little tougher if I arrived there and we're losing games and then we're grinding it out and practice and going through those same blocker mover. But it was working in the game. So we would get into some drills where we had to get like six or seven stops out of 10 to get out and they were just rotating the offenses in and they could do whatever they want and we had to just grind them down and play defense.

But you start to gain so much confidence in each other and so much pride in the defense that it became fun. And then as a pass first point guard, that's kind of how I grew up as a pass for his point guard. And then at high school, it kind of turned me into a little bit of a score because in high school, most of time, the stars in high school have to score a little bit more. And so when I got back to college, I was excited to just be part of the program. I was excited to be part of the team and just try to go out there and win games. And there wasn't any type of feeling of big time players or anything like that. We just had a well-balanced team and everybody had a

role and it just fit perfectly. They recruited a perfect team at those years. your junior year was your best team right and and it's funny like most people forget clay wasn't actually there that year your senior year what what about that team that team kind of came together really really nicely at the end of season well we had um coach bennett had a slogan my sophomore year it was t-a-y and everybody thought i had my own nike t-shirt because it was tay for taylor and so it just it meant turnaround year and so when he he took over his head coach he had this mission that everything was going to change and we were just kind of turn this whole program around and just

adopt this new mentality of winning. And we had gotten to the second round of the tournament and lost. I missed a game winner and went to double overtime. We were playing Vanderbilt in the second round. And so when we lost that game to play, I think, Georgetown in the Sweet 16, we all came together that summer and we looked at each other and we just

committed to the system, the program, to getting back to the success that we had found. And it was something really unique at Washington State. They only kind of had this success one other time. I think it was a Craig Elo team and during those times. And so we were just committed to having that feeling again. And so it was just an amazing atmosphere around campus. And the desire to get back to the tournament was everything.

And so that junior year was special because we started with a foundation of, you know, we already knew where we wanted to be instead of having it be a first year thing. And then we just kind of saw it happen. You get to the tournament, you hammer Winthrop. You hammer Notre Dame. I mean, you got to beat the crap all these. You hold him in the winter for like 40 points, beat it by 30. You get to take on North Carolina.

Now, I don't know at the time if you knew it, but famously, this was like my senior year. My senior year was 2000. And North Carolina made Fonifon, Four, and Wisconsin made Fonofor, and Dick Bennett was the coach. And Tony was like a manager. and he'd quit playing. He heard his knee too, right? And famously, I think after the first semi-final, Roy Williams said, like, they played Purdue, I think.

I'm trying to remember exactly. And he said, like, that set college basketball back 40 years. And it was, you know, North Carolina likes to play fast. It's a different day out. They got the best players, right? Like, Danny Green came off the bench on that team. that's what that team was. But it still was something that really stung.

Like, look, that's not generally how we roll in college basketball. Like Dick Bennett's a all-time great guy, all-time great coach. He's not dealing with, you know, Cadillacs. He's dealing with, you know, accords. Do you remember, like, for Tony, if there was any special, was that mentioned motivation? I know you guys got your butts kicked and you struggled personally, but was there any special motivation with that game? I think we came into that game.

and the promotion for it was clash of styles. You know, it's just like what style is going to come through? Is it going to be the defense? Isn't going to be the offense? You know, you hear when you play for the Bennett system that it's a quote unquote boring style of basketball or whatever you might feel. A lot of players are excited and motivated to go play for some ACC teams

because they play fast and score a lot of points and North Carolina is always known for having exciting teams. But we were confident in what we were doing. So we came into that game and, we wanted to prove all of us, not just the coach, all the players that, you know, what we're doing, you know, can get us to a final four or can beat the number one team. What was tough about that year is we played at North Carolina against the number one, North Carolina.

So we showed up to the practice and there's 12,000 people in blue, you know, booing us as we're walking out for practice. So it was a home game for them. It was very difficult. But we came into that game confident, thinking that we were going to win. And, you know, obviously it didn't go our way that day. but that's part of why it's so amazing to watch Coach Bennett now in the ACC having so much success because at the end of the day, his system definitely works.

His style of basketball definitely works. And, you know, there's more than one way to do it. Did you think at the time, at the time, did you think the Tony could win a national championship? I've always thought we used to joke around saying, man, he can do that with us. Imagine if he had some real talent. And so he got to the point where he's a top 20 team every year, preseason, postseason, midseason. And so that's the foundation that he's built at Virginia just speaks to what he can do as a coach, speaks to his system, his coaching staff, everybody that he brings around on the quality players he recruits.

Does he have a dark side? Does he have a, does he like just when the door's closed all of a sudden, he starts MFing dudes and into guys because I've seen him at the peak and he's come and I've seen him at the valley when they lose the UMBC and he has great perspective. I just, and I know I know him pretty well, but I don't know him as intimately as you do. Does he have this other kind of switch where all of a sudden he's a different, the other side comes out. Well, I have a saying where it's, uh, when I know who I am, I'm not stressed about what I do. And there's a big, foundation that I got from from coach Bennett about the things that really matter. And if you talk to you talk to him that basketball is something that he enjoys, that he's amazing at both as a player and as a coach, but he has a foundation and something different, you know, faith, family, friends and a core belief system that gets him through his day. So he really has that even keel when it comes to those highs and lows because he understands, you know, he has constant perspective about life.

and the things that are happening for sure. So you get home. First of all, like, I got to think Wazoo is so bad for so long. You guys go to the Sweet 16, and you like to have a good time. I'm guessing the police was a good time after both these two NCAA term events. It was amazing. And what younger players never understand is how amazing it is for seniors. And so the seniors just had a great time because they could really go out on top,

even though we lost, we lost to a top-seeded team. And people of the Poulouse were starting to talk about, yeah, we're going to beat North Carolina. So that was the excitement that we kind of built up. Two years before that, they wouldn't think we'd make it to the tournament. And so we had built up this confidence, but coach talked about he didn't want to be a flash in the pan. So we were already thinking about next year. And I'm looking around like, hey, guys, we still got one more year. You know, this is pretty fun.

We can do this again. Because your dad had famously promised Tony. Like, look, man, if you ever need a scholarship, let me know. I'll take care of it. Again, this is the running story. If you ever, you ever tied on scholarships, don't worry about it. I'll take care of it. No big deal.

So your senior, didn't you play as a walk-in-your-seigneur year? So this story has taken on so many different lives of its own. So what happened was, I think somebody had reached out to my dad and some other people about if they wanted to give back to the program and my dad was talking to me and talking to the Tony and talking to people, you know, like, let me know the best way to give back to the program. This program is given so much. And I think Tony said something jokingly about a scholarship or something like that, but he would never ask something of that nature.

And my dad and I talked about it. And I said, hey, you know, if it ever came down to it, I'd give up my scholarship for the right reason. And at that time, I had made a deal with my dad in high school that if he didn't have to pay for college, that he would buy me a car. And so he said, hey, I don't have to pay for college. I'll buy you a car. And so I was going to take that car. It was a used Ford Expedition. Expedition is a big boy. I like that. Amazing. Amazing. So I had that car. It was a two, two wheel drive car up in Pullman, Washington. And I lived at the top of a hill. And so I realized that if I was going to give up the scholarship, after a long thing happened,

Tony came to me and said, hey, you know, would you really do that? There's these two players that we're looking at. We have one scholarship. And I said, man, I was hurt. I was in a bad place as far as physically. I really just wanted to play basketball. He took a chance on me when almost nobody would. And I said, yeah, I'd love to give back to this program.

I love Washington State. I mean, I'm wearing a wazoo shirt right now. And I said, yeah. man, if you guys want to recruit those two guys, I'll give up my scholarship and I sold my car in order to help pay for my senior year. And so he told me that if he ever, he said, you know, if somebody decides to leave the team or somebody decides to transfer or something like that, if scholarship becomes back available, you know, I'd love to give it back to you. And I said, well, if that happens, it happens. And I think it was sometime in the summer, one of my ex-teammates decided to leave. and the scholarship came back.

So I never played as a walk-on, but right up until senior year, I was prepared to be a walk-on. Okay, so then did you get another car? Yeah, I traded it in. I got to use Dodge Durango. It was a little bit different car, and it had a little more miles on it,

but it was probably better for the snow. Durango, a lot of rattling going out of there. No, I had the same deal with my dad. and my dad he acted like he knew something about cars and he had nothing about cars and so I wanted to get like a grand Cherokee

like a Laredo right and he was like why you don't want those jeeps you like you go off road and so I was like all right well my brother's like dude you should go get a Camaro

so 1995 Camaro super sport with like it has like a Corvette engine right so by now you go take it for a test drive and see if he's got some pickup right and you know you're like trying to not

punch it. So it doesn't understand that you're basically driving a Corbett. So that's what I drove around my senior year in high school, which is like ridiculous. So then I signed, but I signed in Notre Dame doesn't fit. So my brother wants the car. He had an accurate, he used Accurate Integra. He trades with me. I sell his Accur Integrate and I got a Chevy Blazer. And so I picked up, I, from Napini, Indiana, I picked up a Chevy Blazer. And then when I was at Oklahoma State, I sold the Blazer at my senior year. I had a Ford truck because everybody at Oklahoma say it's a truck. It's just, it's not what kind of car do you have.

It's what kind of truck do you have assimilated to Oklahoma culture. Your first time you met Clay Thompson, what did you think? So me and another teammate kind of hosted him. He hosted him and I was helping him around campus. Southern California kid. So immediately I was talking about, you know, what do you think about it up here? It's not that bad. because people that don't know the Palouse, especially that come from Southern California,

do they don't know how amazing it is, especially as a college experience. And to play there basketball is just truly incredible. So I just wanted to break down some of the barriers of some of the things he might think or what people have told them about the Paloos. And so he's sitting there, he's got some flip flops. I think some shorts, flip flops and a T-shirt. And we start rebounding the ball and playing and having him shoot. So my teammate and I are thrown in the ball and he was at the top of the key.

Now keep in mind, he's a high school kid, used to the high school three. And so he's sitting there shooting college threes. And he probably made like 21 or 22 out of 25 from the top of the key with flip-flops on on a college recruiting trip. And we're like, hey, man, looks like you can shoot the ball. And he just looks dead in our eyes. And he's like, I would have made more, but I'm not wearing my shoes. So me and my teammate, we look at each other like, I think he's serious. You know, okay, like I don't know where to go from there.

kids seems pretty good. Obviously, we didn't know much about them. We just knew that I knew that I wanted to go to UCSB in high school. He probably wanted to go to maybe UCLA or USC or whatever he might have wanted to do. But we had put together such a great program that people were really looking at Washington State as a team to contend with. So he thought about Washington State and he ended up committing. So the story goes something like this. So my brother was a, I think it's in the Indian State, or maybe a cow at the time. And he would play with my dad in like the spring events.

And he'd play great. And then he'd play for the pumps in the summer. And you know, they just had dudes, right? Yeah. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the apps, and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, This platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, everyone, it's Ryder Strong

and Wilfredel from PodMeets World. And now the PodMeets Twirled podcast. We're two men who were completely clueless to reality TV, who now have covered Dancing with the Stars, traitors, and we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So yeah, now we're experts. I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of survivor knowledge. That is the point of the show.

I'm just going to remind you. I have watched some Survivor. I obviously haven't watched enough. Did people not like it? Yeah. Just because we? Yeah. We'll be recapping the big conclusion of the 50th season.

From the final attempts at gameplay to the desperate pleas of finalists to a bunch of Ha, who. Ha, ha, ooh. Again, we are experts. So make sure to tune into Pod Meets Twirled for all our Survivor 50 takes. Listen to PodMeets Twirled on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Agency. The ability to know that we're the experts in our own body.

On the podcast, cultivating her space, Dr. Dom and Terry Lomax create a space where black women can show up fully and be heard. I wholeheartedly think, you know, you hit 30, you shouldn't have to share one with anybody. Mm-hmm. From navigating friendships and healing to setting boundaries and prioritizing your mental health. These are real honest conversations. We don't always get to have out loud. Totally unreasonable with different parts of life, right? Like, oh, have all three meals and make sure you're mindful during all of them?

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You know the experience. Everybody comes down and just trying to get theirs, right? and high ball screen spread out. I'm going to go get mine, maybe kick off for a dunk. You know, you get it. You get yours, whatever. And he would kind of like shut down emotionally. Like he would just,

and people thought he was a powder and that he was soft. And really he was just pissed because he didn't get the ball. Yeah. And so people passed on him. And I remember watching him play in high school at Ocean View with his brother. His brother was on the team too. And like, and like, I was like, I was like, I don't know. with Ben Howland. I was like, I don't get it.

What don't people like? It's like, well, you know, he gets with a bigger level. He gets a little soft. And I was like, okay. What was he like when he got to campus? He's a pretty quiet kid. I used to, I used to joke around. I'm like, his dad's the voice of the Lakers. So maybe, you know, he took Clay's voice at the beginning.

But once you get to know him, you realize that he's just a really good guy. You know, he was just, he's a little more reserved. and then every year he came more and more out of his shell and he really became the Clay Thompson that people know now. I think in the preseason or maybe in summer, they might have come out to summer school, a couple of them. They came as a class of seven. So they were a really close group and there was not the many upperclassmen. And so we played one pickup game where it was upperclassmen against the rookies. And so we were talking a lot. And at the end of the game, we're guarding each other and kind of going after each other.

And he kind of tries to back down and shoots this fadeaway shot and hits a game-winning shot on me. And this is a freshman coming in. This is going to be my senior year. And it wasn't by the basket. It was like out by the three-point line. I was just like, yeah, this guy might be pretty good. Yeah. That year was up and down, like 17 and 16.

And it's really hard when your senior year. Everybody had dreams of that idyllic senior year of, you know, how did you emotionally handle that? I think it was tough because, like I said, there were seven freshmen, you know, and when you have seven freshmen, especially all getting recruited, everybody's got an idea of not what they've been promised, but maybe what they expect. And expectations can be dangerous. You know, you can have goals, but expectations can kind of catch you. And so everybody had these idea of what's going on, playing time, minutes. We're trying to figure that out and trying to incorporate all the young guys into our system. and we kind of knew what it was like, and they were still ready to grow up a little bit and said,

hey, we still got years and we're going to be good, wait until we're juniors and seniors and all that kind of stuff. And, man, this is my senior year. This is it. And so you're just dealing with a leadership role in trying to have some consistency. I think that was the biggest thing that we were inconsistent. We were beating some good teams and losing games, especially at home, that we shouldn't have lost. So it was definitely difficult knowing where we wanted to go. But at the same time, it was just a different role and just so you have to accept it. A story of the rose is a story of love.

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Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not enough people know about and we're here to change that. I'm April Dinwiddie host of the new podcast, Navigating Adoption, presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Each episode brings you compelling real-life adoption stories told by the families that live them with commentary from experts. Visit AdoptuS.kids.org slash podcast or subscribe to navigating adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Administration for Children and Families and the at council. You get them playing and what happens? When I get done playing.

No, you get done playing in two, I'm talking about 2009. Okay. You finish up. Play your last game. Yeah. Well, for me it was, I'm going to play basketball overseas. So it was just like, I had that, I had that goal when I was young. So I was like, let's get on a, let's let's get some NBA workouts. Let's try to promote myself as much possible. Let's get to the summer league. Let's try to figure out where I can go play. I was fortunate enough to find it. a great agent. And when you're a European player, changing agents is almost as common as changing teams. And so I've had the same agents and I graduated college, which I'm fortunate about.

His name is Todd Ely, and an agent out of Arizona. And so we had a great relationship. And he was telling me almost the first day we met, he's like, I'd love to get you to go play in Germany. I think it's a great league for young Americans. It's a fast league.

And the first time I talked to him, he didn't want to represent. present me. He said, look, I don't know if you can play basketball or not because you've been in the Bennett system for three years and you've had some good games, but then I've also seen you dribble the ball for 25 seconds and then, you know, I've never really seen you play. So you should come down to Arizona and work out a little bit and then let's see what you got. And I think after one workout, he said, let's work together. You know, it's great to see this side of you. And we started working together and within, I think the first game of Summer League, I ended up getting to play with

the Lakers, which was a dream come true. and I'm a Southern California guy. But then I think the first game or the first day I was in Vegas, he had a contract for me to go play in Germany, like he said. So it was great. Okay, so you go to Germany was, how do you pronounce it? Gutengen, yeah. Guttengen, okay?

So this is your first time playing overseas, first time as a professional. I'm sure you went to, did you go to camp? I've actually never been, I played overseas for three years. I'd never went to a camp. It's not true. The first year I did go to camp. I forgot about that.

what was that what was the buildup like what was your arrival in gutin genl? Well, I think I'm one of the most lucky people ever and I was blessed to go out there and it was basically like an extension from college. We had I think seven or eight Americans that were all first or second year guys overseas just a bunch of young, a big young core group of guys that were just an extension from college. And so we were just out there basically it felt like the same kind of brotherhood except we weren't going to class and we were making money and for me for the first time going out there and getting paid to play basketball and living a dream that I've had for a long time. It was just special. So I was excited to get going and I had no idea what it would

be like. I had a crazy coach and I call him crazy because we're good friends even until now. And he would tell us, look, I'm going to get you the point of pissing you off so you play harder and I'll find a way to piss you off. And I was just like, wow, coming from Tony Bennett, who's just a big support system that just tries to get the best out. of you and push you outside of your comfort zone. This guy's telling me he's going to piss me off. And he definitely did just that. So, who is it? His name is John Patrick. He's a coach out in Germany. Great coach and successful guy. And he, uh, he knew what he was doing. Great recruiter. Brings guys and gets the best out of them. But he, he told me before the first game, he's like,

hey, man, you're going to be my starting guy. I'm pretty excited about it. Um, it was on the way to the game. I was like, I'll be a rookie. I know you're young, but I want you to lead this team. And three hours later, I was the last guy off the bench in the first. game. And I was looking around and I said, I said, what's going on? Maybe that was him trying to try to get on me as early as the first game. And so within a couple of games, I kind of found my rhythm and ended up having a really successful rookie year. But the transition overseas, a lot of people have these horror stories of what it's like. And me, I had the opposite. I had just such an amazing story. And that's probably why I'm still out here. Would you make your first year?

It might have been maybe $60,000, $65,000. And then they gave us a, uh, uh, uh, at a place called Salcelitos where we could go for dinner. And then there's two other restaurants. We could go eat as a team. And so we were spending breakfast, lunch, and dinner together. And just playing basketball was crazy. Best part about Gudeny, as far as living there. If somebody's ever going to go visit, what's cool about it?

Well, there's a lot of cool things about it. First, Europe does Christmas the best. I mean, they have these Christmas markets and you can drink this hot spice wine. in Christmas markets and when it gets cold, everybody's outside. And you have a downtown that are just walking areas and no cars going by. And so it was a really close-knit group of people. In Germany, I think Australia and France, they have these VIP rooms after the games. So all the sponsors and all the team and family all get together after the game.

So it's a special family type of bond where you feel in these, and I'm not saying it's a smaller team, but in these smaller cities. And so it was that family feel that kind of drew me to Göttingen and why I loved it so much. How was the beer? The beer, it was great. You got to ask my dad. My dad can't pronounce hepha vizzen. So it's like, as soon as he came to visit me, he'd be like, let me get that banana hepha, and he wouldn't be able to say it.

So they have a he have a hepha vizen that they mix banana with that you wouldn't think it's great, but it's the best beer out there. So your second year, you go and you play for a big. club in in turkey right and then you're second yeah yeah uh i was like uh galatasari galatasaray yeah galatasarai yeah i played against them when we were when i was in israel we went and played in turkey and by the way turkey is amazing was in istanbul which is you know it's contentinople yeah like two continents right there coming together i remember going to the the bazaar and just walking around and it was like something out of a movie yeah take me through okay so well like you had such a good experience in germany why leave just more money

uh yeah i mean it was it was a chance to move up um i signed a uh one plus one i think um and it was a chance to move up they were playing in the euro cup i'd play into the euro challenge the year before and in good team we actually won the euro challenge so it was an amazing experience there and so a chance to move up to the euro cup um play on a bigger a bigger platform um and the experience was pretty wild for me because uh i played in polona washington i I played in a small town in Germany. I'm from Santa Barbara. You know, you walk around, you see people you know, and now I'm in Istanbul.

And it's just a whole new world. And I wish I had gone there maybe a couple of years later when I was a little older or more experienced and had been around a little bit because I didn't realize how special Istanbul was. But it was really a unique place and offered so much not just basketball-wise, but off the court. I think my mom, my mom always inspires me to like see everything in the city. When she comes to visit, she has a book already. highlighted with 45 things that you have to do just in my area that I probably driving by every day, but missed.

And so not only was I playing basketball there, but I was checking out all the sites, and it's one amazing place to live and to visit. Who is the coach? Octai McMuddy. What was he like? He was, that was my first, that was my first experience with trying to work through a situation that wasn't that comfortable. for me. So when I got there, normally when you recruited, I tell a lot of young players that you're

recruited for a reason. You know, they believe in you as a person. And you have to find a way to include who you are into the team aspect. So I felt like I was being myself and he brought me in and said, hey, listen, first game, you scored 20 plus points and you had five assists, but I want you to be a point guard that scores 10 points a game and has eight assists and I want you to get everybody going. And about halfway through the year when I was averaging something of that nature and we had lost one game up until that point he said ah things aren't really working out you know we thought you'd be doing a little bit more and then uh the management wanted to get rid of me probably due to statistics right that's what was what was his national background uh pretty sure he's turkish pretty sure

he's turkish he had been he had been uh coaching in turkey a long time uh good guy but just uh very demanding. It was my first experience with a really highly demanding coach and a coach that was repetition and you either go 100% or you go 0%. And so it's just wanted 100% all the time. And I was like, hey, man, I've always been a guy that changes pace, you know, 50%, 100%. That's kind of who I am. And he said, no, no, 100%. I want you running full speed. So I learned a lot in that experience, definitely. And you just grow from there. So then you went to Alba, right? Which is, isn't that traditionally the big team in Germany? Yeah, it was until

Bayern Munich decided that they wanted to have a basketball team that can match their soccer team. So they've really built up a great program in Germany and now they're the number one team over there. So you go, it's like mid-season, right? So now you're experiencing all the different things. Again, much more normal

for a European player than it is American player. Like you sign a one plus one then all of a sudden you're on a different team. But for a guy who dealt with some disappointment, how do you handle, okay I'm getting cut. I was trying to do it. I'm trying to please this guy.

The second year is a pro. I don't get it. Now I'm going to album. Who'd you play for an album? Muli Katsuren. Now you're really getting into my memory. I'm bad with names and I'm getting them right now. So that's okay.

That's okay. So, okay, but now you're back in Germany where you'd had so much success, but with a completely different squad. Did you have like equity within the country where everybody, oh, okay, everybody knows Taylor can play. Yeah. I think it was exciting because they recruited me and a big guy kind of around the same time.

And then the idea was they had just lost a game by like 35 points that was a surprise to a lot of people. And they said, you know, this team was in, I think, third place or fourth place at the time. And then me and this big guy kind of came in at the same time. And then the vibe around the team was, wow, we really have a chance to win the championship now. And so it felt good to come back and say, hey, this young kid's got a lot of promise. And it wasn't about my situation in Turkey. it was just about moving forward and being in being in Germany. Okay.

So here's what I want to do. Okay. I want you to tell me one thing because you played in all these countries, right? You played in France. Then you went and played, shoot, I think you played in Spain. I got you. France, Spain, Italy, Italy, Russia. Russia again.

Israel. Back to Russia. Serbia. I mean, everywhere, China. Okay, right. Okay, so here's what we're going to do. I'm going to mention the country, and you tell me one thing about living there that's cool.

And, yeah, and if you have a good story, like, just go. Okay, let's start France. You're in Lamont. I've been Lamonts. I actually played for Clement Ferrand, which was they were trying to move to Division I, and we played Le Mans. I think it was a friendly or was a game?

I can't remember. I do remember it's kind of a random city like in the middle of France. There wasn't much to it for me. France, go. Well, France, there you go. That's my home because I've been happily married three and a half years. I met my wife in Lamont, France. So I just-

How did you meet her? Wait, no, don't bury the lead. How did you meet her? I met her best friend and through her best friend, I met her. And I think my first date with her, she came to a game. And then she met my mom. after the game. And so it was, it was right into the fire. My mom looked to me and she, she said, oh, that girl is really nice. I was like, oh, you thought she was nice? Well,

all right. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, so for me, France is, France is my home and I have a house there now and that's a place I consider my home. Okay, wait, so she's French, I take it. Yes. Did you speak French? I did not speak French and her English was not great. Okay, so how did that evolve? It went from very short conversations, a little Google Translate, and extreme, extreme patience, extreme patience. And my wife is amazing with languages. So she had taken it in school, but didn't really take it so seriously.

When she met me, she started focusing in a little bit, you know, with more of learning language and getting excited about English. And then she moved to Australia for a little bit. She got really good at English. She came back and she just wanted to learn more and more and more and more and more. And it made it easy for me. And so our talking language with each other is English. And then when it comes to returning to favor and I'm trying to get her to talk French with me and teach me French, I'm not as smart as she is and she's not as patient as I am.

So it was just a bad mixture of trying to get the two languages. But after a couple of years, I spending some time in France, I picked up more and more. And so now I feel a little more confident in talking with some of her family. Your house in France is, is it a flat? Is it a house? Like, again, somebody from Southern California, how would you describe your palatial estate in France? I would say it's more of like a countryside home. So my wife, my wife grew up about 10, 15 minutes outside of La Malle. Her mom lived more in the city and dad has a farm outside of La Maw, actually a farm. And they produce a whole bunch stuff, salad, leak, everything I've worked out in the farm with her brothers and her uncles and her dad, especially during the pandemic.

That's where I spent five, six months. And so it's about 10 minutes outside the city. And we have a nice place. We bought it with her mom. And so she lives there. We have a nice place. You know, there's cows on the other side of the fence in the backyard. And it's a big difference to growing up in Santa Barbara, California.

but part of the amazing part of my job is creating this diversity for my kids to grow up in where they can experience growing up speaking different languages, seeing different things, learning different cultures and just being more open to the world. So it's like stainless subispos, if you're telling me. It's slow town. Best thing about Italy. Food.

Period. I had a hookup in Italy where he was a fan of the team and he said, hey, listen, come in, we'll make whatever you want. Just give us 20 euros. And I said, what do you mean? He said, whatever you want. Just tell us the day before. We'll make you American pancakes. We'll make you this.

And I said, no, I don't want American pancakes. I want the best Italian food. So we would show up and they would have the sliced ham and cheese. They would bring on appetizers and pastas and steaks and everything you can imagine, bring some desserts. You can drink wine. You could stay there for hours. And you just leave in 20 euros. he wouldn't let you leave a tip nothing he just loved talking having conversation speaking

english and just sharing stories and it was just an incredible experience russia cold my my first experience there is a town called nizhny novgrov now i owe a lot to nizhny i ended up having an amazing season out there that really opened up some doors for me moving forward and created some success basketball wise but uh the first year that my wife decided to live with me. We decided we were going to live together. And then three weeks later, I signed a contract to go live in Nizhnyn Abkhrod, Russia, which is an hour and 15 minute flight east of Moscow. And we lived in a small, small apartment, a little one bedroom apartment. And I have pictures with my dad or my mom walking to the grocery store and it's minus 20, minus 30 outside. And

it was, it was a different situation. I saw people on skis walking around. It was wow. Totally. So I So I played my first year was in Eurograde, which is in Perm Russia, right? Petam Russia. Same type of, I think it's a two-hour flight from Moscow. Yeah, I played there. Okay. So, and we won the league. Like, we were the first team, not Suska, to win the league.

We were, we were staff, like I lost one game my whole time in Russia, and it was only because I had to play with the juniors. We won the league by so many games, they advanced us to the semifinals. And they were like, you must. to stay to play with juniors. So I played against CESCO with all these juniors. And I was terrible, but it was like one-man band thing. Anyway, here's my, here's my rushing cold story. So we had just got married. And she was like, you know, I want to come out there. Okay. So we're living in a flat up on the six-floor or something. It's six-floor building or nine-four, nine-four building,

whatever. And I'd get home from the morning workout, right? You shoot and lift in the morning, and you practice in the afternoon. And she'd want to, let's go do something. I'm stuck in this apartment. So we went to, we'd go to the Renoch, which is the market. And I'll never forget, one day it was like minus 40. And we have like everything covered up except our noses. And our boogers froze.

Like literally froze, like, stick, like ice cubes. And like, we're never doing that again. That was way, that was too cold. Like, we thought we were going to, like, lose skin. It was so incredibly cold. And it used to, I felt like it would, it snowed every day I was there. That's what I remember. I remember like the first three months, I would wake up and I go, hey, look, it's snowing.

I was just kind of like being a smart ass. It literally snowed every day. My coach told us one time, he said, hey, tomorrow bring some extra stuff because we're going to warm up outside. And we all looked at each other. It was the beginning of March, but it was freezing outside. And so we all came with all our stuff. We had sweats and gloves and beets. And we did our whole warmup on a lake, which was frozen over.

And we just ran on this frozen over lake. And as we're running, you got to keep in mind there's these big seven foot Russian guys. And I hear cracking, cracking of snow and cracking of ice. And I'm asking them like, hey, what's going on here? Like, oh, this won't thaw out for weeks. And I was like, weeks. Like, I don't, if I fall in this river, I'm not, I'm not calling it end in Nisian-Naburagra Russia in a river outside of practice. We were, we went and trained in Lithuanian in, in, uh, that shallow, what is that, uh, clipido?

Russia. So we advanced all the way of the playoffs in semifinals, and we, we end up training and playing all these Lithuanian teams to lead up to the playoffs. And we went on a run, we'd go on a 30-minute run in the morning. So they took us down to the beach, and there was these paths, like there's like a forest and then there's the beach. And the other American was Willie Burton. And Willie was like, in his 30s, he played in the NBA. He was an interesting, a curio guy. And you had the guards that were like the high achievers, right? Then you had the big guys that were just like big lumbering Russian dudes, right? Then you had kind of some of the dudes in the middle.

And so we all take off and I'm with the high achiever group, right? I'm trying to get a good workout in. And Willie's kind of in the middle. And then I think he's like a gazelle, right? So I think at some point he was, eff this. I'm going to catch up with the other group. And it's like a winding trail. And somewhere along the line, he gets a guy.

gets lost. You know, he turns right or whatever. And you're supposed to like stay with like stay with the group, Willie. Like you started with the middle guys, stay with the middle guys. Willie's like, no, eff it. I'm going to go. So we get back to the bus and everybody's sweating and drenched and you know, you're drinking, you have this big, they drink, they don't believe in cold water. You're drinking like warm water. You're sitting there and I just, let's just go. Everything smells, you know, you want, I just want to go to the hotel and they're like, Godley, where is Willie? I'm not this pager. I don't know.

Where is Willie? I don't know. So we get out the bus and we kind of like, Willie! We're in the middle of Lithuay. Willie. Willie. Willie Burton, where are you? Can't find it.

By the way, fuck it. I guess, you know, like he'll figure it. He's an adult to figure it out. So again, same thing. Like, we had a morning workout. We go back to the gym. We shoot. Then they take us to the hotel.

We sleep. And then we, like, scrimmage that night. I'm back at the hotel. like here comes Willie and you know like he's pissed at me like I left him like I like I'm a soldier I left the guy behind exactly you go like you left me in fucking middle Lithuania and I'm like dude you

you were with a group and then you went not with a group and like we called for you we waited for you for like 15 minutes like you're nowhere to be fat like that bullshit so then you know like everybody's mad at you because I didn't know where he was like that's not my fault he's mad at me because he got left right And we're just sitting there going like this is. And then you start to think to yourself, like that's legitimately scary. I remember, I don't know if you've ever, and you've had travels all over.

Have you ever had this thought? I remember landing my first time in Russia. Guy picks me up, he's smoking, stops to get somebody to eat. Nobody speaks any English. And I'm like, so tired, you're like in and out of consciousness. I look up, there's like red square. Then we're going to some other airport. You know how it is in Russia.

Like you fly into Sharmettova and then they take you to another airport. And I just remember thinking like if this guy was a bad human being like he like wanted my money just killed me like push me out the door. No, we would know for weeks, maybe months, maybe years because you'd be underneath snow, right? Like what's the craziest middle of nowhere story you can show? Well, I've heard the craziest story I've heard is is a Russian story where a person without being mentioned was supposed to get a bonus. and somebody came in Russia, somebody came and knocked on the door, and he had some bonus money. I don't know if it's for advancing to the next round or something like that. So a guy opens the door and the bag, you know, back.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life,

mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Hey everyone, it's Ryder Strong and Wilfredel from PodMeets World. And now the Pod Meets Twirled podcast. We're two men who were completely clueless to reality TV, who now have covered Dancing with the Stars, traitors, and we're gearing up for the season finale of Survivor. So yeah, now we're experts. I know we annoyed a lot of our listeners by our severe lack of survivor knowledge. That is the point of the show. I'm just going to remind you. I have watched some Survivor. I obviously haven't watched enough. Did people not like it? Yeah. Just because we? Yeah. We'll be recapping the big conclusion in the 50th season from the final attempts at gameplay to the desperate pleas of finalists to a bunch of ha-who. Ha-ha-hoo.

Again, we are experts. So make sure to tune into Pod Meets Twirled for all our Survivor 50 takes. Listen to PodMeets Twirled on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Agency, the ability to know that we're the experts in our own body. On the podcast, cultivating her space, Dr. Dom and Terry Lomax create a space where black women can show up fully and be heard. I wholeheartedly think, you know, you hit 30, you shouldn't have to share one with anybody. From navigating friendships and healing to setting boundaries and prioritizing your mental health. These are real, honest conversations.

We don't always get to have out loud. Totally unreasonable with different parts of life, right? Like, oh, have all three meals and make sure you're mindful during all of them? Absolutely not. During one meal, I'm standing. I'm standing and handing my children food. Because healing, empowerment, and resilience aren't just ideas. Their practices.

And this Mental Health Awareness Month, there's no better time to pour back into yourself. Listen to cultivating her space on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Money gets handed into his hands and it's all good and everything. And so he goes and doesn't think anything of it. 30 minutes later, knock, knock, knock. Somebody comes and says, I'm here to pick up the money. So what are you going to do? And so, you know, the team says, hey, you know, we dropped off the money.

What's the problem? And so they know nothing about the second guy. You know, it's just like, so at a certain point, like you said, it's just like, I'm going to send as many texts as I can. I'm going to keep my location on just in case. Just, you know, so people have some documentation of where I am and what's going on. And so especially Americans that think about what's going on. And they're like, oh, wow, you're in Russia with the war with Ukraine, all the kind of stuff.

And it's really not like that. But for people that don't know the situation and you hear stories like that, and it really is like that. you wrote a book which is about to come out when did you start writing the book I'm excited man here it is I started writing it about three years ago I think I'm in Belgrade right now when I was in Belgrade the last time I played here my wife and I we got pregnant with our daughter Joy and I thought about writing a letter to Joy and I thought about writing a letter just my thoughts about life about her

you see these books about like if you could you know impose some wisdom on your kids what would they be or somebody else so i thought about writing a letter to her um my wish for her for the future that letter turned into a little bit longer of a letter than i started writing down notes i'm a bad sleeper at night so i stay up at the night especially after games i can't sleep or write notes and positive messages and inspiring quotes and things that i wanted to share with my kids and so that turned into more I went out to play in China, had a lot of time on the road, started adding more thoughts to the paper. Then it became more of a process than an end result.

So I just enjoyed writing, enjoyed getting the thoughts out. It was kind of my way to relax. I'm not even a reader. I didn't even think it would really be a book. And then slowly I decided that it was going to turn some ideas into chapters, chapters into a book. And then through some help of some other people, my cousin's wife was amazing. She helped me edit the book. and it just became what it is now.

And so now January 22nd, there's a book coming out and I'm supposed to be a writer now. So it's exciting. What is what is the like, give me the two sentences of what the book is. Well, it's right on the front cover. I'll read the book. So it's cultivate joy, reprogram your mind and define life through an authentic lens. And so I've gone around the world and learned a lot of truths. I write in the book that, you know, your truth.

in America might be different than somebody's truth in Germany. And even in America, everybody has their own truth. They see life differently. Not only do we see life through different lenses physically where I have bad eyes and got eye surgery, but we see things differently. And so just sharing my experiences, sharing my ideas. And I really feel like we can cultivate joy, cultivate happiness from the inside. And especially right now, I was talking with some people. I didn't share this with you yet, but yesterday was the end of my contract. I'm in Belgrade's Serbia, I have my wife, my two kids, and in the next 48, 72 hours, I'm going to be moving to a different country. I don't know where. I don't know what team. And that's part of life. That's,

that's all these external factors that come into life and there's, I call it controlled chaos. And to be able to define your life from the inside, to have a foundation of confidence and optimism, can really change your outlook on everything. And especially this 2020 message where 2020 just shook up the world with COVID-19. I think it's the perfect time for this message. I think it's a book for everybody and I'm just excited to share it to the world and especially my family. No no guesses on where you're going to play. There's a couple different places, a couple different countries. The cool thing about playing so many places is like I have a couple ideas of where I might want to play. There's France, you know, potentially kind of going back home and playing in an area that I love.

There's Israel, been there before. There's Turkey. I played for a lot of coaches, played with a lot of GMs, played with a lot of players. Some players when I started now are GMs and coaches because now I'm 35. And so I've gotten a lot of calls and it's extremely humbling to, you know, have it announced yesterday that I'm changing teams and to have my phone ringing and some, you know, five, six, seven professional basketball contracts being offered. It's, I'm truly blessed. Look for your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see

treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure. And they see you. Their fearless guide through this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure.

And they see you. Their fearless guide is this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. If I could be you. And you could be me for just one hour. If you could find a way to get inside. each other's mind walk a mile in my shoes walk a mile in my shoes

we've all felt left out and for some that feeling lasts more than a moment we can change that learn how it belonging begins with us dot org brought to you by the ad council walk a mile in my shoes okay so um there's there's there's a bunch i want to kind of bite into here real quick uh what do you want to do when you're done I think one of the most amazing things about life. So in the book, I say life is not happening to you. It's happening for you. And so there's just so many opportunities, so many things.

I've known since I was five, I wanted to be a professional basketball player. And so the idea where I can wake up and choose what I want to do or just open up my mind to being creative and especially now with the internet and the world being what it is that you can kind of figure out what you love to do and try to make that. profession. And so you love to do, other than play basketball. Well, the funny thing is I didn't think I was, um, it's going to be tough to be involved with basketball. There's a lot of traveling and I want to, I want to, I want to travel, but I want to travel a little bit more for pleasure. Right now I travel and they tell

me what clothes to wear, what color t-shirt and what time to be at the gym and things like that. So I want to travel and take my family around the world. I want to, I never thought I'd be a writer. And now there's a book coming out. So I don't know how much longer I'm going to play. But I'm just going to enjoy every single second. And then when I'm done, look at some other ideas. And I've already started thinking about a couple things, but I'm open to everything. What do you tell my son is 11-year-old, left-handed, white kid, Orange County?

He's little. If he grows, he'll grow late, you know. And this is a world where if you walked into a room and said, professional basketball player for the last 15 years, this is what I've done. You were like bullshit, right? I've never been in America like never heard of you. That's a piece. Yeah.

of it right. Like no, no, no. Go ask somebody like I played and played in your league and played pretty high level. It's all these big clubs. What do you, what do you tell the kid who looks around and says,

I can't do this. Everybody's, everybody looks more of the part than I look at the part. There was a couple things. I love the idea of whatever it is you seek, you're going to find it. So if you're positive and if you're seeking a certain thing, you're going to find people that are positive. If you're trying to motivate yourself to go a certain way, you're going to find people that will help you get that way.

If you feel yourself with doubt and insecurity and you're seeking that route and that you have excuses and things like that, you're going to find people that will sympathize with you and go along that route. I believe anything is definitely possible. And to focus on improvement instead of perfection. that's kind of been my M.O. So every day, there's no such thing as perfection. And I talk in the book about meeting this kid in China and trying to help him with some drills and just trying to keep his head up while he's doing some dribbling drills. And he did it again, didn't keep his head up.

And I said, hey, man, maybe I didn't translate or maybe the translator didn't get it. And he said, no, I understand English. But if I do that, I can't do the drill perfectly. And I said, that's an interesting concept. It's like, tell me what player in the NBA you love the most. and tell me how perfect he is or if he ever makes mistakes. And so we start with that and we go back. So you have to work on improvement instead of perfection.

Perfection, you're going to fall short. Improvement is about the journey, is about everything that you can control. And so if you focus on your effort and not the outcome, I mean, the world just opens up to you. And that becomes a habit. And if it's basketball or if it's something else, you develop a style of living that just becomes your habit and becomes who you are. one of the things you said that stuck with me, you're talking about your coach in Istanbul, about how going 100%, whatever. I remember, it's funny, and you also talked about not wanting to wear the same shirt and being a team.

You'll go through, when you're done playing, you'll go through like a, I don't know how long it'll be, like a point of rebellion. I don't want, I don't want to, I don't want to be, I don't want to work out with a bunch of people. I want to do everything when I want to do it, right? Because that's part of the regimen of being an athlete. is somebody's always telling you and that kind of motivates you or somebody's going to take your spot, et cetera, et cetera. But I remember at some point I was doing like three-man leave. I was like, I've literally done this for 30 years. Like I've never, I'm not, I fucking hate

your man weave. Like it's taken me, I've coached youth basketball now for like three years, got back at a younger level. And only this year have I reintegrated like three-man weave as part of the drills, whatever, just because you want passing, catching, and cutting and some of those things. I do understand why it exists, but I was just so negative towards like, how many times can I do the same thing over and over again? Have you gotten to that play?

Is that part of it? It's not the games are great. The players are great. Even the preparing for the game is great. It's just those other things that everyone feels like they have to do as part of practice to say there's a practice that you're like, and that's the part. I can't stand.

as I've gotten older I've kind of been like five on five or bust so you show up to practice good no my favorite and I think he coaches he might be back in Israel

he was in Turkey like we had a bit of personality conflict when I was in Israel this guy Sharon Drouker I don't if you were played against Sharon and he would Godlib Professor Gottlieb you know so much about Basque was like kind of condescending he was totally condescending

but I love this practice because all we did was five on five. Like that was it. Like, I would love, we lift, we shoot, and then let's bump, let's go. And it was competitive. Like, that was it. That was, what are we doing other stuff for? It was amazing.

I love when they're like, okay, we're going to do this drill and they're saying, oh, no, no, the fifth guy will be there. And I'm like, let's put the fifth guy there and let's see where he'll be. And let's play that because in the game, it's going to be five on five. And I respect all the drills, especially the preseason, you have to work on certain things where five on five might not be there. But the older I've gotten, I've definitely felt that. I got to Italy and somebody shared a story with me.

I can't think of the name right now. But they're a player that it was playing for the team the year before I got there. And it was like five games into the season. And he showed up to practice. And right before he walked out on the court, he was in practice gear, full gear, everything. I just went through the preseason five games. He just sat there and was looking around. And everybody was like, hey, man, you're okay?

You don't feel good? And he said, I'm done. took off his practice uniform, five games in, untied his shoes, carried his shoes with him, just left the locker room and he's just like, that's it. Because at a certain point, like, I don't want to go out there and warm up again. I don't want to do this practice. I don't want to play another game that he was just it. I haven't definitely not gotten to that point because I love the game so much.

But I have a feeling that for me to finish, it would have to be something where I just look at my family and I say, hey, you know, like, if there's something, if there's a better avenue for my family, and if there's a way that I can create more happiness for my family, then I would take that at a route. But for right now, basketball is bringing us too much. I don't know if you know this, but if I were to go back and play in France, I'd have to serve a six-game suspension.

This is a true start. It's my last, you want to talk about going out with a bang? So I had done ESPN games for a year, and my agent was guy, Michael Siegel. And Michael was always calling me throughout the year, like, man, you got to come. I got a contract for you here, a contract for there.

And I only played two years. I didn't do the thing you did. I got lucky enough to get to do ESPN games. And I was like, this is what I want to do for the next 40 years. And so I never forget, I did Tulsa won the WAC championship. And I lived in a house in Oklahoma City at the time. And it was like Tulsa versus Nevada. And I'm driving back on the turnpike.

And I get a call. And it's Michael Siegel. And I had a radio show in Oklahoma. and he said, if you leave today, I got a deal for you in Portugal. The team's first division, going to go to the playoffs, could win championship, be a good bonus, whatever, you got to leave today. If you leave this weekend, A2 in France, but they're trying to advance, the point guard got hurt.

It's a two-month replacement deal, a month-and-a-half replacement deal. The pay they give you a bonus, whatever, all the money up front. No car, but you're flat. Anyway, so that was the deal. because I had a radio boss getting on Larry Bastida, and I felt like I had to face to face with him and tell him like, hey, man, I know I have radio show, but I just, I don't have this out of my system yet. He was cool about it. I probably could have taken the Portugal deal. But anyway, so I go and play in France. And we're playing, oh, man, and you know all the teams there. We played the model. We played some first division. We played in Paris against Paris racing. But this is a team from up like around Normandy. God, I can't remember the name of the team. and like maybe where's lamoge where's the moj loz loz moj is lozge is more south i'm trying to think of the team you're talking about i i know it it's on the tin my time i'll figure it out so so here's what's crazy about so it is my last game and they're like you could stay but we already have the guy at your

salary so we cut your salary half we love blah blah blah blah blah i'm like no i'm good and i was going to be with the timbrewles in their camp for summer league whatever and they end up getting to do the Again, like serendipity, I got to do the NBA draft on radio, and that's where my ESPN career took off by not staying. But I remember, like, the team's getting off the bus. And I see Kelvin Gibbs, who's, he's now a police officer in Oakland, or Berkeley. And I played against him when he was at Pepperdine.

And I go up and dap him up, whatever. And then off the bus, this true story, my high school teammate is a guy named David Lala's area. So Lala had gone to Notre Dame. I got him to go to Notre Dame when I was in Notre Dame. So he was a freshman when I had left. And then he left and he went to Pepperdine. And then it was just like his first or second year as a pro. And he was a late pickup and was training with the team.

So he's traveling with them. Like, what are the chances in this small town in France that like my best friend? And this is before we didn't have cell phones. Yeah. And this is like 2002 or 2003. Right. And so he hops off. And my wife had just arrived in town.

And Lala was in my wedding. So I'm playing this team. And it's a close game. And at the end of the game, they have a French point guard. He's big jacked like white dude. And we're kind of going back and forth. And he backs off. If he plays up close and we're just doing like four corners, I go by him and I lay them.

And he plays up close. I go by him. They help. I kick off. We get a dunk. And then he backs up and hit a three. And it's like perfect ending to this little run. And so he's running his mouth.

And I'm like, scoreboard. I don't understand school board. So he goes by me, like bulldogs by me. And we have these two young French dudes, and they both block his shot. And I go, get that shit out. Two-time, bitch. And he's running. So we're like squaring off, but I'm not going to fight anybody, right?

No chance. So all of a sudden I turn around and these young French dudes are literally like, you know how like in America, guys, guys don't really fight. Everybody talks like they fight. No one throws a punch. And they are squaring up and they are fighting. So everybody's whistling.

And the refs throw me out of the game because I'm the instigator, I guess. Perfect. So there's 17 seconds to go in the game. And the way the gym in Claremont-Faron is like the vomatorium where you go to the locker room is behind one of the baskets. There's like stands behind there on top of that. There stands on one side. And then there's like really small like high school stands on one other side. It's a gym more than out of really.

Yeah. And so I'm blowing kisses to people because it's my last game. And then Lala's not on the bench. He's sitting with my wife up behind the hoop. And I'm pointing to them. Meanwhile, I hear this like kind of roar from behind me. I turn around here comes Frenchie because he got thrown out of the game and he's coming after me. And then here comes both teams.

and there's like this massive we're just I don't even not. So they have footage in this? Huh? You have footage in this? I got to find footage of it.

Oh man. They like that we're in our locker room and you know guys that have jerseys and there's you know everybody's talking like they just everybody was Mike Tyson and that you know if I don't know anybody got clean shots in. I didn't get hurt

didn't get punched or whatever but I mean I got tackled so they grab five guys that go out They run the clock out and finish the game. And then I say goodbye to my buddies that are getting on the bus. And the next day I'm leaving and the coach and the general manager come over and they give me like a cash bonus. And they're like, by the way, you must know like you are suspended next six games. I was like, all right. That's how my professional career ended.

So I'm not telling you that's how you should end your career. It's not a bad way to go out is go out where you get suspended, right? you're not a drug guy, I don't use drugs, but if you want to go out and take a swing at somebody, that may be a good way to go. You'd be like, well, Hale is a guy. The Gottlie makes it. The lowest I've ever finished

was playing for an Italian team, and it was the only year I think I didn't go to the playoffs. And it was the last game of the season, and we knew it was the last game of the season. And this is the closest I can get to your story. And so my teammates are kind of already checked out, And this is a game that we can win. I'm a super competitor and I always want to win.

It doesn't matter what the situation is. And I realize that these guys are checked out and we're losing to a team that we shouldn't be losing like this too. And so the closest thing I could do is I walk out to the referee and I asked him to kick me out of the game. And because I couldn't be a part of it anymore. It's the only time I've ever done anything like this. So I asked him to kick me out of the game is I can't kick you out of the game. So then I use some choicey words for him to give me a technical foul. And I was like, man, I walked up to him as they're shooting free.

I was all like, man, I want you to kick me out of the game. I said, I can't just kick you out of the game. I said, well, you can't now. I just gave him a little push or something like that. And I had to go to him after the game. And I said, man, I didn't, you know, I didn't want to push you. You kind of force me to do that because if I keep talking to you, you know, you already gave me the tech.

So it looked bad if you really kicked me out. So I just pushed him and left. And so I don't know if I'm suspended from the Italian league, but there it is. That's pretty good. Do you ever curse in a different language? That's the only time I curse. I'm on the court is just in different languages, just because you just get so used to it.

And it's a more fun way to curse. And it almost feels like you're not saying anything bad, but the weird part is, if you directly translate their curse words, it's way worse. It's way worse. And so when you tell some of these young Americans what these coaches are saying,

what these fans are saying, it makes them want to fight, but you realize that it's not like that. It's amazing you point that. So when I went to Russia, like my dream was kind of your dream, that you're living was my dream. I want to go to play a different country every year

and learn language every year. So I go and play in Russia, we take a Russian tutor. It was the worst thing I ever could have done. Help me order food and help me have conversations with people because nobody spoke English, whatever. But it hurt me because now I understood what all the coaches were saying about me and when the players were saying about me. And I was like, and then when I was in Israel,

I didn't really learn Hebrew. I knew phrases, but they would always, they would speak English. And there was another American point guard. You probably played against some guide contour. And I never forget, like, We'd play in the first half. And if I played, he was like the only Israeli, so he would play a lot.

And they'd play us some together or whatever. But they'd speak in English. And then when there was some issue, they started speaking in Hebrew. And you're like, wait, hold on. Let's go to the English version here. So I know what you're saying. But it's actually kind of a bad thing sometimes to learn what people are saying and how they're saying it because you're like, wow, I really wish I had not known that.

ignorance is bliss unless they point at me when they started pointing at me i'm like all right here we go english english only just bring it whatever you need to say like i'm right here we can talk about it i'll cuss back at you the same language if i have to i don't want to but let's just let's just do it proper amount of time to work out for practice individual for you uh in your training i grew up a kobe fan so I heard about his throw-up workouts where he'd work out 45 minutes to throw up. I've talked to some trainers in the wait room that say once you go past an hour, you're not getting anything done.

It's deteriorate for the body. So I'm a big efficiency person where let's do it in one practice instead of doing it two. Let's do it in a shorter amount of time. But if we're going to be on the court, let's get stuff done. Let's take it seriously. Let's work hard. And then a lot of times I'll be like, okay, we're going to go through a lot of these things. that we're going to go half speed, all the kind of stuff.

And then it takes a really long time. I'm like, hey, let's go full speed. Let's get game reps. Let's knock each other out. Let's compete at the highest level. And then let's get out of there. The single best player that you've ever played with or against. I think that's tough.

I don't know. Because I'm still playing, I can't give anybody that type of that type of props. You can't say one guy that you play like, man, 10 years ago I played against this dude. You know what's interesting is I always thought in college, the toughest player to guard was Jared Bayliss. So he was at Arizona and I was at Washington State. And when I was in a pack 10, it was fierce. I mean, every single night,

you were playing against the guy that ended up being a top 15 pick. And like you said, you had, you know, some players coming off the bend. I mean, I think Westbrook was coming off the bench at UCLA. And so those are the type of teams you were playing against. So you had tough players. You had Isaiah Thomas at. But I remember like, like you played obviously, copy television like i had never heard of ari macdonald

before now the sudden i'm playing against aaroni but i'm like this guy is fucking good holy shit well well for me for me it's about it's about uh red light yellow light green light so if you're playing against a person with a green light in europe i mean it doesn't really matter if you know the name or not know the name anybody

with a with a full green light that's taking x amount of shots per game i played in china where these guys are taking 34 shots per game or something like that where it's just like now you got to guard him all night and he's got a green mean, like, it's, it's, it's tough. So I can't think of anybody individually. I can just think of, man, some, I can remember some games that were tough. There was a guy, Squeaky Johnson that played at UAB when I was a freshman at Lincoln. And so he, he picked me up full court. We played at, at at UAB. And he had, I think I had five turnovers at UAB. Haven't thought about it since then.

This is humbling. And so then we played the second game at two lane at home. And I'm coming in the game. I'm a freshman. He's like a senior point guard. all defense, whatever. He's picking me up full court the whole game. So the game started, I'm like, I'm just going to take care of the ball. Don't need to worry about myself. Just take care of the ball. We win the jump ball.

I take one dribble, goes off my foot out of bounds. He wasn't even guarding me at the time. I was thinking about so much during the day, dribble the ball out of bounce. And that's life because I ended up hitting a game winner in the game. We ended up beating UAB, and it was a memorable game. But I just remember coming into that game, like, oh, man, I don't want to play against this guy. the best you ever, best game you could remember playing. The most memorable, the most memorable, my last time wearing the Coop jersey at home,

Washington State, we were playing Arizona State at home, and I hit a game winner against Hardin's Arizona State. So it was my last time I played in Beasley Coliseum. So that was my senior night. And so that was amazing. I made the first shot of the game. I think I missed 12 straight shots. I've always been the most incredible free throw shooter.

I missed a free throw to seal the game. We fouled James Harden. He makes three free throws to go to overtime. In overtime, I'm still playing bad. I'm trying so hard to have a good senior night. Tony Bennett said he was preparing a speech to, because these are the guys that he had grew up with. He's like, how am I going to talk to these guys after such a big letdown,

especially Taylor? And I came running down the court, passed it to a teammate, and just yelled at him to throw it back to me, threw it back to me, and just with like four seconds left, shot it from, you know, beyond NBA range, and it went in. And it just happened to be that memorable night. night, you know, for a senior night. So probably that game.

The, are you an exotic food guy? Like, have you gone, like, when I was, I've tried calf brains. I've tried cowballs. I've tried all that stuff. Are you exotic traveling the world and seeing all these playing? What's the most exotic food you've ever heat? They have a blood tofu in China. That's pretty nasty. And then I went to a what does that mean? What does blood tofu? You just like threw it out like, oh blood, oh blood, oh blood tofu. Oh, blood tofu. You know blood tofu. You know blood tofu, right? I mean, Tuesday night, blood tofu. So it's some type of animal blood, that's like tofu is marinated in or something, and then they love to eat it. I really don't know to this day what I was eating, but the most exotic thing I had was I walked into a buffet at a really nice hotel.

We went up to one of those little sky lounges where the place rotates around and you're looking at the city. and they had this amazing buffet. And as I'm walking down, I notice a huge crocodile head. It's like a huge crocodile head. And as I get closer, I realize that it's hollowed out. And the raw crocodile meat is on the inside. It's like alligator crocodile. So it's a head with the body.

The whole thing is there, hollowed out meat. And you like scoop out the meat yourself and then you give it to them to put on the grill and then you eat it. And so that was probably one of the craziest things I've done. I'm not the guy that will eat spiders or eat different stuff like that. And I think that we all learned a lesson from COVID-19 that maybe some of those markets in China are probably not the best places to get your exotic foods. But there you go. Francis home, if there's one other place that you've traveled to, you're like, I could live here. What would it be?

There's two places. There's a part of Athens, Greece, it's Gleifada. Gleifada, Greece is like kind of the southern California of Greece, even though Greece seems like the whole place is like in California on the water. But Glefada is truly amazing. I was playing last year there with Olympiacos and found a home there amazingly, family friendly. And then I love Tel Aviv Israel. I mean, Tel Aviv is just incredible. My wife is in love with it.

She has great friends there and we develop great bonds. I mean, being there is like being at home because the style. of people there is all about family. Having Shabbat dinners and just people coming together around food and there's no cell phones on the table and everyone's just enjoying family time. It's amazing. Okay, here's the last. This is a really random question. Off air we were talking about ordering out and stuff.

Okay, so here we have DoorDash, Uber Eats, whatever. Granted, you're in Belgrade, you're going to change locations. Like, is it the same setup? like an app to order food to go pick it up with the pandemic or is it is it for sure for sure they have they have one of the most amazing things about traveling the world is the food they have amazing the cultures are amazing the people are amazing but the food here is fantastic um unfortunately the second time around now vegetarian slash vegan so i'm eating a lot of better stuff when before i was eating everything out here so they have everything you can think of um it's a misconception

for the most part when you travel these different countries, do they still have the stuff that you have back in the States? Sometimes they have all that and more, and sometimes they have just the same type of stuff. So everything's just perfect living out of here. Worst place you've ever been. Like, when I was there, I'm good. Yes.

When I was there, everything felt great. But looking back, I don't think I could go back to certain places in Russia, just from a standpoint that I'm older now. I got my kids. I don't think I could take anybody to, you know, to negative 20 weather. but I honestly found something amazing in every place. It was one of the worst contracts I had signed,

not from a standpoint of anything else, but I felt like I had taken a step back in a way. I was really trying to go for this one team and ended up signing in France. And now it's where my home is. It's where my wife is. And I love the management. It's still my favorite president I've ever had

and the favorite management I've ever had. And one of the favorite teams I ever played for it was in France. And at the time, I thought it wasn't the right move for me. And looking back, it couldn't have been better. Well, listen, I can't wait to read the book. I do get an advanced copy, right? 2020 Vision. I get an advanced copy.

Yeah, man, of course. Okay. I get an advanced copy. And I would love to hear where you play next and what the next book is. And I may, if you're not going to be in France, I may have to bring my guy, my little guy to come work with you and do those 45-minute throw-up workouts. In the meantime, this is amazing, simply amazing. And we miss you here, stateside, but we're just thrilled by your success. Thank you so much for joining us.

Hey, man. Thank you so much for having me. I really do appreciate it and look forward to speaking with you again. The book is 2020 vision, right? It's going to be available in January of 2021 by Taylor Rochester. Taylor, great stuff, man. Can't wait to read it. All right, man.

Thanks a lot. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific. My thanks to Taylor. A quick reminder of the Doug Gottlieb show airs daily, 3 to 6 Eastern, 12-3 Pacific. on Fox SportsRadio.com, Fox Sports Radio, the IHeartRadio app, wherever, wherever you listen to us on Sirius XM, 217 and 203. You can also go back and check out any of our previous All Balls. Scott Brooks is on it. Nate Oates is on it. Jay Billis, we had a two-part one

with Jay Billis is amazing. We got great stuff. Make sure you download, subscribe, rate, and write a review. Do those things. In the meantime, thanks so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed it. My thanks to Taylor Rochester for all his time, joining us live from Zagreb. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and this is All Ball. A story of the rose is a story of love. From farms to our florists and right into the arms of sweetheart savoring a date night in. Best friends showing their Galantines how much they adore them. And those giving themselves a little love.

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