The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - Rondo Loss Impact; Guest: Charles Oakley Talks MJ Relationship, Last Dance, Ewing Criticism, James Dolan Beef Origins, LeBron/MJ Debate, Pippen

Episode Date: July 15, 2020

In this episode, Doug discusses the impact of the Lakers losing Rajon Rondo, and if Alex Caruso can fill the void. This week longtime Knicks and Bulls power forward Charles Oakley joins Doug to discuss breaking into the NBA with the Bulls, the shock of getting traded to the Knicks, his blunt criticism of Patrick Ewing, thoughts on The Last Dance, and the origins of his beef with Knicks Owner James Dolan that blew up after his viral arrest at Madison Square Garden. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

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Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down,

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You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Remember all those big dreams used to have and then life made other plans? With a Mercedes-Benz Sprinter van, it's time to bring those dreams back.

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that are guaranteed to deliver the best birthday support. price. Shop thousands of unique gifts at 1-800flowers.com for exclusive offers and great values. To order today, visit 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. That's 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. Hey, what I'm welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and you are listening to All Ball. All basketball, all the time. We don't know about college basketball. We don't know when it'll be back, if it'll be back. We do know that the NBA is on track. Now, as of the recording of this podcast. And just so you know, my guest this week is none other than Charles Oakley, opinionated, former power forward for the Bulls, the Knicks, the Raptors,

remember he was with the Rockets at the very end of his career? Why do so many guys end their career with the Houston Rocket? That's kind of a question. I don't know if I'll get to that with him. We'll talk some Jim Dolan. We'll talk some Michael Jordan. Talk some Scotty Pippen. we'll talk some LeBron James. They're actually very, very close. I'm not sure if you're where, but he's actually a Cleveland guy from birth, like, you know. So family originally Alabama, went to Virginia Union, but high school was in Cleveland. We'll get to all that stuff.

Upcoming with Oak. So Charles Oakley will join us. But what we know at the time of the recording of this podcast is Russell Westbrook and James Hardin have both tested positive for the Rona. The Rona. And look, I'm only saying the Rona in a kind of sarcastic tone because my guess is or my hope is. Now, here you have two superstar athletes and whether they're symptomatic or asymptomatic, they'll be cleared, they'll be back, they'll be fine. Which, assuming that happens, kind of debunks the whole Brooklyn Nets thing where, you know,

DeAndre Jordan had it like, I don't know, a week and a half ago. Like, you'd be cleared, you'd be fine to go and play. if you're not playing, it's because you don't want to play. But we're starting to see how the bubble works. Is it going to work? I've heard in the media and in sports, they'll start, but eventually there'll be a positive test of somebody big, and they'll shut it down.

I don't know. What's much bigger is Rondo getting hurt and Avery Bradley not making the trip. If I'm Rob Polinka, I'm still calling Avery Bradley and having LeBron call Avery Bradley every day. You got to have a doubt. depth of ball handlers and guys that can make plays. You just do. It doesn't mean that J.R. Smith stinks, but J.R. Smith's a catch and shoot guy.

He can guard, but he's not Avery Bradley. And he hasn't played in the NBA in over 600 days. It's not just that there's a reason for it. It's also, once you start playing, you're going to be so sore. It's really hard to go from not playing training to playing an NBA, then playing in playoff games. So I'm, and Dion Waiters, kind of a bad shot taker and maker or miss her at times, that one's going to be interesting as well. For the Lakers, if you don't have both of those guards, obviously Alex Caruso becomes incredibly important and defensively, athletically, and in most games, he's shown to be plenty good enough. But there were some games, big parts of the season, where Caruso was on the court and was not.

really willing to look at the basket. Now, here's what you're going to get, though, from Caruso. That's a guy. He'll lose the crowd support that he have at Staples. But when you fought your way through the G League, you've played these empty gyms before. He's also had to prove himself before. So while there's no positive history for him in the playoffs, there's also no negative history. And however big the stage actually is, and if that causes his hesitance to want the basketball,

it probably won't feel as big when you're playing in front of, you know, media members and family and friends only at the milkhouse. So I think the whole thing is interesting. I do believe that the Clippers are favorites ahead of the Lakers because of missing those two and because the Lakers had such momentum. But I think that's so far the most interesting part, that and the Rockets, not having their two stars who will eventually show up. but the Rockets are a problem for some teams because of the style by which they play. And a lot of what's going to happen, the Lakers, they control their own destiny, they're five and a half up. They're not losing the number one seed in the West.

And while there is no home court advantage, you do want the ability to set who you're going to play. The first round doesn't matter that much, whether it's Memphis or Portland or New Orleans. They should be fine regardless. You don't want to play a long playoff series when you have an older team, even if you want to work out some of the kinks of some of your new players. But you do want that second matchup to be the right matchup, and that is out of their control. So I think the Lakers, this hurts him, Rondo getting hurt,

although there's a part of me that tells me it helps him. So look, I know that Rondo is known as playoff Rondo. And some of that, the most recent time was when he was with the Bulls, And they hopped out two games done on the Boston Celtics. The Celtics were the one seed. Celtics weren't the best team in the East. The Bulls did beat them two consecutive times. These things did happen.

I'm just saying that let's not freak out over two games before he hurt his knee where they had two games done lead over the Boston Celtics. It's been a long time since Rondo was a huge part of a championship caliber team, really 10 years ago. So losing him isn't what losing him. years ago would be. Rondo obviously has had a fabulous career. There have been some bad spots to it. There have been some good spots to it. There have been a lot of injuries to it. And this injury is really curious considering there was the videos of him doing boxing training. And you look at his body

when he came off of quarantine and you're like, yo, that dude has been getting after it. But can he shoot? Now, my friends with the Lakers tell me that he wins every shooting drill, but he's just just not a good game shooter. And anyone in the NBA will tell you that his reputation as a great defender was wildly overstated when he was younger. And now at this point in his career, he's not really a very good defender. And then he's not a good finisher considering the fact that he's open so often. So he's not a good finisher, not a great shooter.

You know, he doesn't space the floor particularly well. He does have a vast amount of experience and he is really smart. But here's the biggest thing with Rondo that they lose, which is a good thing for Frank Vogel. In Vogel's mind, no matter what he says in his mind, he has to be able to see all those series with the Celtics when Rondo was fantastic in that role. He's not that guy anymore. He hasn't been that guy for a long time. And so his over-dependence and expectations on Rondo were for him to set back the clock. And that just doesn't happen.

So that default is gone for Frank Vogel. The downside is you also don't have Avery Bradley who had become, I mean, any of us who watched Avery Bradley when he was coming up, when he played at Texas, you thought how he played that last month with the Lakers. Great defender. Playing off the basketball for the most part as a shot maker. Granted, you lose Rondo's passing, you lose his basketball IQ, you lose his vast amount of experience.

but there's you also lose which is the good part which is Vogel is over-reliance and expectations on Rondo which is interesting look I think the Lakers are they're not an underdog but the Clippers would be the favorites because they're playing with great momentum and now they're going to have to retool and retinkered themselves and it's going to be about LeBron and really Caruso and Anthony Davis creating shots for others that's not a lot but again I'm talking a lot about the Lakers

J.R. can shoot. Waders can shoot. And they're better shooters than collectively than Avery Bradley and Rondo are collectively, no matter how well Avery Bradley shot in his last month with the Lakers. I don't think it's a wash, though. I think it hurts the Lakers as the clipper. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action,

with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

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search Learn the Hardway, and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, A, ref, my mom, won. want you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42.

Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. The big question was, would they be healthy? They had to be healthy now. Why, he's never going to be healthy than it is now?

They're deep, they're loaded. The only thing they lack is, you know, Reggie Jackson, as he made shots big in the playoffs. So Lou Williams, has he made big shots in regular season. But in the conference finals, has that happened? The answer is no. So I still think the Clippers, because of Kauai, Paul George being healthy, they're the favorite. The Lakers add more shot makers, lose ball handlers, probably the second most likely out of the West, even though they have LeBron and Anthony Davis.

All right, let's get to Charles Oakley, who of course was a star with the Knicks after starting his career with the Bulls. He was drafted by the Bulls. There was a trade. We got a lot to get to. And of the former Knicks that played during that Pat Riley era that went to the NBA finals, he's maybe the most respected. Let's get to our conversation with Charles Oakley. Thunderstruck, adjective. Shocked and amazed by the power of fun on Carnival.

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Let's welcome in. He's the great Charles Oakley, and he joins us here in the All Ball. podcast. Charles, how are you? I'm good. How you doing? I'm good, man. There's so many things I want to get to. First, let's start

with the Bulls. Let's start with the Bulls. Because, based upon my recollection, when you first got to the Bulls, what was your experience like? You first get to the Chicago Bulls, what was your experience like?

I must have drafted. The next year, I'll have they draft the Mike. You come in. First of all, they traded from when Keith Lee went to Cleveland. Keithley, of course. Yeah. So you get there. It's 1985.

Michael Jordan only been there for a minute. What do you remember about your first experience in the Chicago Bulls? My first experience just that year in Seattle, we had a lot of good thing. He had talked to Big House about me and, you know, a couple tournaments I was in. But, you know, we do your physical. I've been to Chicago. So it wasn't no surprise about going to Chicago. But it was, you know, playing with Michael Jordan.

was. How did you, like, how did you fall through the cracks? Were you a late bloomer? Like, how'd you fall through the cracks to where,

to where you played in HBCU? When I got out, John, hey, I was going to go at my sister with the O'HR. State, but then, sometime of way, I just wanted to get out of Cleveland because Cleveland,

I'm Cleveland to Richmond, I know I wouldn't be coming home, nor any. But, but it may be, it's a long drive, but like, look, Richmond's the South,

right? And, yeah. Okay. And you're at, and you're at a historically black college. a Baptist school Like what was

What was that experience like As a kid from the tough streets of Cleveland? Family type school It was like 12, 11 and 13 on the students It wasn't off out there But you know, I was good down there The weather, it's like me going there I got the water

85, 90, everything You're going to enjoy the good something Everybody just got along And you know, it's one of them things I met a lot of people With my time down there So you're with the Bulls It's the summer, late summer

You meet Michael Jordan and he had had a breakout rookie season. What do you remember about the first time he met Mike? Oh, Mike, come, you know, just Mike got a little laugh on. He'd go, they do a lot of pickup. No, he was just, you know, polite. You know, I was the time before I met him, but I was working out. So he had, like, workout programs four or five times before the season got started.

So I was, you know, just, oh, hello, let's go. Did you, you were, that was, for people who are just thinking back, that was obviously the year where he missed all that time with footings. injury, and then he was on the minutes restriction, and it wasn't, I think the last dance really exposed that to a lot of people who don't remember the story. What was that? Did you know that he was on a minute's restriction? Did you know about all the stuff that was going on? Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. And I think he said, and like he said, and they figured it out, you know, it's showing his compatibility. He's one of the most of the, you know, he just. How did you, like, look, he was, and I thought this was one of the things that

they didn't point out in Last Dance. He was apparently furious when you got traded, right, for Bill Cartwright. Yeah. And how did you earn his respect? I guess just from day one, playing pick up into the season started, cue for the game. You know, some people would see, well, you're with Michael Jordan, you'd be trying to compete with him on that.

The year before I got there, they were trying to compete with him. But a lot of guys, you know, he had them other guys. He took the league a lot of here in the show. shortly he's rookie year the next year when he did play it. All you can do is the while practice. And I tell everybody, he practiced hard and he played. So when he gets the game, it's like a league. You already in practice and rehearsed before the show it comes easy when you get on stage. Where were you when you found out you got traded?

We set a fight in Land-Aid Tyson. So you guys were together? Yep. And, I mean, listen, this is back in the 80s, right? He's back in the mid-80s. How did you find did somebody tell you? Somebody told him, he said, okay, let's go and join us fight. And after that, we'll talk more detail. I said, you knew what was going on.

You talked about this on trade, and that was me just seeing. He's part of the game. I don't have a lot of guys have a problem where they didn't tell me this and that. They don't have. All right, so you show up in New York. What do you mean? So, you know, this is a Rick Petino was coaching the team, you know, Mark Jackson, Patrick Ewing, you know, old Trent Tucker still, still.

Hooping. Rod Strickland was a rookie. What was it like now? A sudden you go from Virginia Union to Chicago, you're part of building up this new team and you go to the New York Knicks. Well, what's all that happened? I got to New York. Me and Patrick's were intendedly. It's just, it's different. Mike is just a different guy. Patrick, Patrick was hard to play with because he could, Mike was just, he was just clever. Patrick, the more ball game, postplay I haven't got a win guy. That's what a good player. When you've said that before, there have, I'm sure, like, you know, did he reach out to you?

Like, when you said, I think, on a New York station, you know, that he didn't carry us, you know, to a championship, the way that Mike did. No. Yeah, so. Go ahead. No, no, go ahead. No. No, it wasn't a point of it carried to the championship. It's just a different type style of play when you get to championship.

It's like boxing. A lot of the guys, you know, it's a style-make fight. But when you get to a championship, like when we play against the king, two heavyweights. You know, Mike will especially start in five games. We should have. Plattford didn't have a good series. That's how basketball was back in our area.

We took your best two players, Patrick and John. It went to point about who took all the charges. He just, he wasn't the type of guy that can make guys better. I still said to this day, he wasn't that type of player. He's a guy. He didn't get his, but you got to come out. and just for the game. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsLice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more,

follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? When Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know.

I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed correct. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about

wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys?

This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Time out. Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. It was a funny situation, but that's still my voice today, especially if you look at Kobe LeBron. I tend to agree with you.

Listen, no, I tend to agree with you. And I think part of it, Charles, is like the real talk of guys who played is different than how, whether it's reporters or fans take it. Now, I'm sure that whether it's Barclay or Malone or Pat, they don't like hearing it, but I do think there's a lot of people nod in their head, right? That's the Carmelo Anthony thing. Like, Carmelo Anthony is a great score, but did he actually elevate his teammates? Did he actually make them better? Same.

He can get his number, but it could be like, so, you know, you go to some places, you go to some, you know, places, somebody going to do massages, somebody can do. Barkley, he'll get you 25, 28, 12, or 5, but. song like can you if you can't sing every song can you trust the other guys to sing half of the song or do a part but they did that they were just calm along he just

was stock and set him up and you never seen him said the other guy Mike you see in last then what the guys got into him he started trusting him and that's what made him better and better when you trust a great guy and you know he gave them guys some shots they made

it ain't like now you get 10 shots to make two back then they had three shots to make one. You don't have pressure on them. It wouldn't like they just, okay, I'm in the mistakes three or four. I know I got four. No, it didn't work like it, but you had to be an infinite part of your game and when you played back in the day,

and when you was out there, you know, when you're once or twice, when you get it, you're going to have to make one of them two shots. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1-800 Flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1 800 Flowers has thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed to deliver the best birthday surprise. Shop thousands of unique gifts at 1 800flowers.com for exclusive offers and great values.

To order today, visit 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1,800flowers.com slash tune in. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure.

And they see you. Their fearless guide is this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. And we're live here outside the Perez family home just waiting for the... And there they go. Almost on time this morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double-armed kid carry.

Looks like Dad has the bags. Daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Dipers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but Mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed, and they're off.

Ah, but looks like Mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on. on the roof of the car, and there it goes! Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fan favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at nhtsa.gov slash the right seat.

Visit nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Brought to you by Nitzah and the Ad Council. Who would win in a fight? You or the late Anthony Mason? In a fight? Yeah. we had a couple fights I mean you know

I don't know we had for wars in practice we're with different players I mean I'm like that we might yeah

I know I'm sorry I always wondered you know I was always wondered if you split you up and you just squared off like

like who would win um look the league the league changed kind of late you know late in your career and after you left

where they kind of your position kind of got eliminated right well it wasn't just about physicality bounty, but the power forward, you know, because you became a great 17-foot jump shooter, right? Now those guys, you've got to be able to shoot threes.

The lane's all opened up. It's a lot less physical. There's not the back to the basketball anymore. But part of it was the physicality of your guys series, the series with Miami, you know, some of those other series, they were so physical that the thought was that the fans didn't like watching it. and that's why the league made the adjustments. Do you like how the league is played now?

My mind. It is a new league. It's a new time of life. These guys like this. But I think in our era, we never got the call. Every time against Chicago, we never got the call. I mean, it was just like crucial time a couple games against Chicago. I tell Mike all the time.

It wasn't like a point of all. Lewis. Every game was close. Two bad calls in a game. The game went down to the last two or three possessions. Last session, like we played Miami a couple of times. you know, the Pacers. It's a lot of bad memories game.

I know the time we played the Pacers and Patrick. So there's a lot of hard stuff to stop. I think we should have been in the finals, but when you win, not when you talk about it. Yeah. No, they do. It's, I mean, my late father was a former college basketball coach and a lifelong Knicks fans.

Snick Sand fans, we watched every one of those games, and they were all war. You know, you had the Davis boys and Rick Smiths, and you guys had you and Pat, and then you had Mace, you know? I mean, and like everybody had, I mean, it was just, and it was war, right? And it was the toughest man.

Then you make a shot, you miss a shot. Charles Smith misses a layup or Ewing misses a layup, and that's the difference in winning a game and losing a game. Yeah, it would be. I mean, what way the game is played? People like, I think the older people like it. Younger people who watch none of this and that. Because if you think about, if you watch Lions Dan,

you watch every game, the Bulls, and other teams, too. I mean, they just had the better player. And that's what they always said, the better player is special. You know, it's a doc. on the last day and to show you what he went through the world and that happened. You know, betrayed this, trade that, and playing basketball.

I'm playing this role. He's playing two or three different roles. You know, see that because I mean, I'm not, for him, like, you know, joy in the moment, he had a motorcycle team, and he had a, he goes to all the fights. Just from having fun,

George, and talking about the old days. And I was, well, you know, I tell him all the time, you better be glad you knew the commissioner, because he loves you. And he should have loved you. You made the lead global. You made the lead something special.

I mean, what you did, nobody's putting the lead on his back, and the people can see it from different. Why do you think you're such a beloved member of the former Knicks, your top five. And, like, people in New York love you, gravitate towards you. You know, like, you are, why?

You know, most people with, with, with, with, with, one or two exceptions, right? But why do you think that is? I guess a consistent. You know, about 10 years there. New York is a hard worker. They like that tough, and they like people with Ed. I just appreciate they like to me. You know, they didn't have to, but they took a like, I won the guy again 25, 30 points a night, but they said when you go to church, that they always, the pastor was preaching the service, that someone in church is going so to someone else to get people attention. So I was the other person in church to get other people in

trade potential. So I just appreciate the fan of New York. I mean, I had a great time over a month of years and still be in New York. I do a lot around New York. And, you know, it's just ain't, it's no place. Well, what, what, what, I know some of your last interactions, but what was your first interactions with James Dolan? When did you guys first meet?

Never met him. I tried to meet him in New Orleans, I think, all start in 2011. Wait, wait, wait, you never met him? Nope. never met him before so I'm not about 2011

because they had like three all stars in five years I couldn't believe I didn't do all this I'm like what is they doing to get all of this

but anyway so we were in the all-star I was at the harold and average and rich and we're just hanging out just

through the street and we're talking about you know Ohio guys and he comes wild wild west world west he comes in

from the back he's like what's up oh he just hang with them but something happened they don't

they don't deal with him no ball. So he said, I'm back here with the owner. I said, who? He said, I never maddened me before. He said, okay, well, let's go back here. So me and my guy, Jacob, she, we walk in the back. Da-la-da-da. So, Wes, or Mr. Dolan, this is Mr. Oakley? So I put my hand out. He never turned around and shake my hand. Never turn around and shake my fucking hand. I'm like, what? I'm like, what's like, what happened? He's like, I met you before. I said, you haven't met me.

So, okay, if you did, you can shake my hand. So we walked back over the table. I thought calling him, I told him, like, that's why we're going to, you know. He don't know. It was just disrespecting what he did. Why wouldn't he shake? So he wouldn't shake your hand?

That doesn't make any sense. I know. West tried to say he don't remember. I'm glad I had the mother guy, Jack up with us. He went to shake my hand. He wouldn't shake your hand. Like, who do you think he is? It was just crazy.

So after that, it was, I guess they said, he said, when you called the commission, I said something in the paper. I said, if he would say something every day about you. I said, I didn't have to apologize because I ain't said nothing to disrespect. Well, no, I mean, I guess the thing is like, it's like, this is where I mentioned, it's not out of your character to say what you think, right? Like, this is who you are. You've been, and some of it is like an athlete mentality,

which is guys are a lot more honest with each other and tell you what they think, and tell you if they like you, or if you're doing a good job or not doing a good job. And that's specifically how you were wired. I don't understand why it would bother him so much. I mean, I guess because you're a former Nick, you're supposed to rah-rah and agree with everything that happens with the franchise. Is that his thought?

That's what every guy I played with. It's so disrespectful. They can't do an interview without letting them know the question. They can't do. He's so much of control for the other people I met with. Well, we know he's just, he wasn't done or selling. I hate to say it. Yeah, they come on.

He had a lot of blacks. I mean, what do? It's just crazy because, yeah, he had a lot of the ones that get caught out with Donnie said it wasn't good for the team because he had to give him too many guys, and now he had to break the whole team down. That's why Donnie left. That's why, you know, anybody who go against him, he's going to get rid of. Yeah.

He hired people every two or three years. I knew when he brought Phil Jackson and field and he was doing for him a president, a basketball. Phil was a coach. I mean, some people, they said some guys can't adjust, like, so men, ex, couldn't adjust. Phil wasn't another guy. You know, you get, all the people in the way,

you want to show your talent while you're sitting in that seat. You know, that's like a captain and the coached out in the, you know, in the first two. You know, it's just weren't why. He just got money. He can't even control everything. the incident happened with me. He tried to say, I'm walking a game hollering at you in $20,000.

It's just a lot, almost like the president. I think this isn't after you. What, I mean, it has to be almost an out-of-body experience, right? To be like, you're New York, Nick. Dudes love you, and they want to make you leave the garden. What is, what was that like from your perspective? That was, you know, people show you a lot of love. No, team, for my teammates, my man, for whatever, but I always tell them.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions,

the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day but just so y'all know I mean at this point Mark this is the second episode where we've discussed crack so I'm starting to see that there's a through line We also have AIDS on the table right now

So Thank you finishing that sentence I don't think there's a more important year For black people Really? Yeah For me it's one of the most important years For black people in American history Listen to look back at it

On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts Or wherever you get your podcast Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we

don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way.

Open your free, our heart radio app, Search learn the hard way and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game.

This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker

Listen to the Clifford show On the Iheart radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast It's the playoff family management Like 10, 12 years By his way That's why I tell everybody I'm talking about it

I don't understand how you'd be Especially in athletics Right like in sports Well, not just athletic You're in New York I mean right Right Right no no you're right

But I'm saying like especially Like you know how it is like in basketball or in football, like coaches, players, front office, like you're critical, you've got to be critical of each other to push somebody to get better and to make, like, if you're a phony, you get exposed. Players, players especially know, because you're not that high level player unless you have some level of sports IQ. And if you have sports IQ, you know what dudes have and what dudes don't.

And so, you know, I just, I don't know how anybody thinks you can make it in sports if you've never been, never, if you refuse to be criticized. I guess he just got, I'll tell you right now, I'm about doing stuff from there. So I was in the car owner-in-old's the real look. And Mr. Dolan was in, and I always think back to this while he is doing whatever he won't. He said he can do, that's his little pet.

He can do whatever he wants. He tripped twice a day and don't care what he do the rest of the day. I guess he sent, like, his CD of his band to LeBron when he was trying to get LeBron to sign with the team? Brown was trying to sign up. He said, I bail out. LeBron went coming. It just, there's a piece of it. is in that and they got a way to

I mean they keep saying they're going to give the number one. I mean, you don't have a number two on the team. How do you get a number one? Trade against something and then you hope you get a draft. You might get luck in the draft. I mean, they got hard. Yeah, they need a lot more pieces and they need to try and get a, they got to get a free agent at some point or trade for somebody who's

unhaping. I don't know for anything on the company. Does West change that? Can Worldwide West change that? Can Leon? I mean, like, look, Leon, everybody likes those, both those two. Doesn't matter? I like them. I like Leon, whatever, but we got a way to see. You know, they gave Field Jackson chance for three years. I mean, give them three years.

I mean, you got to get a coach. I don't see. You got to trade three guys get one. So hopefully they can just go and just keep building. Forget putting the paper like, you know, these chap laws, are we going to trade this for a number one? We're going to have a number one. Just keep getting the young guys and develop them.

You know, you keep saying this and that. Hopefully you can get a pick in the draft. Well, one of the ball kids, or you can get Anthony, a kid from Georgia. Anthony, Edwards, yeah. Anthony Edwards, yeah. Yeah, Edwards. And hopefully, I don't know about the kid from Memphis.

I think they need, I don't know what they need, but they need some players. I mean, you put them on the cord, then you see what you got once they play. Just let them play together. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure.

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What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination. Our sense of wonder. And our family bonds grow too. Because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, We reconnect with each other.

The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. You coached in the big three. You're now coaching in the five tournament, which is running in Vegas, July 19th through the 29th. It's a pay-per-view event for money, a lot of all former NBA guys. Okay, so in terms of the actual stuff,

style of play, like, what are the, what's different about coaching three on three from five on five? Basically, you play in half court. You know, it's five if you do. I tell people that, you know, you can get burnt out court. I try to beat you off the dribble. So it's compatible. It's real compatible. You know, you got to be in shape.

You got to be ready for it. Does it, like, does it make you want to coach, or is it just enough? Like, I got my life, because you have lots of other businesses. I did coach the big three. No, I know, but I'm saying, like, does it make you want to coach, like, in the league or, you know, G League or whatever, like, does it make, or is it like, look, I just need this to satisfy, keeps around hoop, keeps around NBA guys. It's tough to coaching the league these days. They're different guys. You know, you can't talk to them.

You got to be, you got to, you know, it's just, it's just different. I mean, that's why you see a lot. That's why you're going to see a lot of these teams. You got to get a good leader you can build a team. Yeah. No, there's no... Best player that you played with

that doesn't get the respect that you believe he deserves. Scottie? Why? Scott. What about... What about Scotty? Well, Scotty is, you know,

the plowler, you know, it's a different engineer. He would... He had a chance to play with Magic or Scotty. He said, I win championship with Magic, but I win more with Scotty because Scotty just can do more. Matthew is just for point.

Scott again play defense, rebound, check three, four positions, and he's a good athlete. But I think Scottie should get more praise. I know the last dance there was a lot of up and down about Scotty.

They made him look bad, being in and trying to make him look good. And then if you know all the details, he got more praise, not just for the last dance or his career. And he made the dream team, the all-star team.

Yeah, I mean, I would say, you know, like some of that, it was a little bit like how you handle people, though. So they, like, Jordan, like Mike on one hand said he's the best teammate he ever had,

and then he said he was selfish for getting the surgery late. Both are both, you know, like these two things can both exist, can't they? Well, some people got their ways of dealing with management. My teammates are going to tell me a lot of guys, well, I'm not going to play the night. No, you're playing for, we're playing for us and the fans, damn management. You know, if you don't play, no, say, you from, no, you let us down. Just said, you won't have surgery. You let enough down.

But I just don't tell everybody, it's not guys watch films, which is, and man, we're going to be managed. Yep, owners own and players and players play. You are close with LeBron, you know, two guys from close to the same area. You spend a lot of time with them. What are your thoughts on the LeBron and Jordan discussions as to who's better? each other everybody different type player. Mike

want to come out, you're going to try to put you away in the first score and LeBron will come out and get his guys involved and just see

who's willing to want to play or this and that. It's just two different players. I mean, if you look at his stories like the 17 years

but maybe Wilf Chambers somebody, you know, to be that proactive that still at the 17 years playing like he's just his fifth year in the league. Nobody, maybe Wilf's just a special guy.

Mike was special too. He only got hurt there one time. So, Maybe it's different guys. Michael, make shot, LeBron. You're going to try to put you away, so they don't leave, like, late game to try to make decisions.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies,

and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast. Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84's big two, me not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know.

I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. You get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month,

I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it,

and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app,

Search learn the hard way and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Clivert Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes,

Hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. LeBron, sometimes, you know, team hang around. And if he got a shot, if he's double team, he might not take him, might pass up. Right, that's when he started to win, right? He used to try and do everything himself and when he started trusting his teammates. That's when they started winning.

He's like they're basically the opposite. I mean, I'm going to just wing guys. They're the best one and two wing guys ever. make stuff having Mike a little wrong. What did you think of Bird? When you play with Hall Hall, but he's a guy, MVP two or three years.

And he could suit it. You know, he was great for the air. We played. Yeah, I mean, but he was, it's interesting. He wasn't the athlete of those two,

but he did, the one thing you pointed out about the greatest ones is he made people better, right? So it's a hard one to, in terms of the comparison because athletically so much difference

than those other guys. Well, my play today, Mike, and, yes, I mean, you always saying Mike, Mike and Kobe probably

the only guys who should have just try to strangle you every night on the court. Yep. But ween. It's going to be a tough night at the time I see you, so get ready for it. How you shoot late for let's go. What's the next 20 years look like for Charles Oakley? Next 20. Hopefully we can get through this time.

I'm doing my foundation. The world can get back on track. It's not 20 years. Because this is right now, it's a lot of good time in society right now. We've got a lot of stuff going on. And, you know, we just got to stick together and stay strong. You're a guy who's been able to persevere, though, right? Like, there's a lot of guys who, I mean, you've seen some stuff.

And you have a tendency, though, to see the good. Yes. More, though, than see the bad, right? Where it's, so how do you, how do you, how would you explain to the younger generation? Like, look, you went to historical black college, but it was in Richmond. The steady statues were up in Richmond. I'm sure there was some stuff going on, some stuff said. Maybe you heard it.

Maybe you didn't. But you always, you look back in your recollection of your time at Virginia Union is only a positive. How do you explain? because I do think that while there's a lot of accuracy to the issues we have, the other thing is you can always see the negative or you could see the positive. How have you been able to, one, you're honest, but two, tend to see the negative, the positive as much as you have. Well, basically, I mean, my family was raised. I think that we just go together because it's a lot of stuff that happened that shouldn't happen,

but now I think our eyebrows and it's getting brighter. We're seeing and we're trying to, hopefully that maybe it shouldn't happen. You know, it's going to my house to shoot eight minutes and 46 seconds. And just a lot of other stuff will happen over the life. But we got to just get our stuff together, you know. You know, as I know a lot of stuff, and people's like, well, we got to, some got to change. We do decent changes. And we can all just try to make it right.

And hopefully that we never go through this again in life because it's not a good time. he's seen all that the Jim Crow I think it was this time and this time and what's happening I think people's

getting attention it got people attention a lot of attention you know even when we go back to the cap on that when he was

kneeling for the flag this and that no he wasn't but they didn't want they didn't want to apologize he did a PR thing for like five minutes

he didn't look up one time because he was embarrassed other people what they say I guess the people who weren't for other people

now the other people behind the door, you've got to step up and speak up. When they step up and speak up. Well said, Charles, it's been an absolute pleasure. Again, that's on pay-per-view. So the five tournament, three-on-three.

Charles coaching the team. Hey, man, so much respect for you as a player and what you represent to so many in the world of basketball. Wish you nothing but continued health and happiness and success. And thanks for joining us. Wow, that was a great talk with Charles Oakley, wasn't it?

That's fascinating, fast things. that. Here's what we can do. First, reminder, to listen to the Doug Gottlieb show daily, 3 to 6 Eastern, 12 to 3 Pacific. Secondly, you can download the Doug Gottlieb show podcast, wherever you download podcast. So you like interviews or whole shows, wherever you downloaded this one as well. And don't forget, oh, to download, subscribe, and to rate this podcast. When you rate it, I think it helps us. I don't know. In the meantime, we're going to have more for you from the bubble. And next time, we'll have some thoughts on youth basketball as well.

What are you doing with your kids? How do you keep them sharp? Do you give them time off? Do you find out how self-motivated they are? And any of your questions, at Gottlieb's show, is the Twitter handle. Feel free to reach out to me. Some of you are my friends. You hit me on DM.

You hit me on text. I will answer questions on the next pod. We'll start pumping out more of these per week as we're getting ready. for the NBA bubble, and we hope that NBA bubble doesn't burst. We are close to actual basketball, my friends. Thank you so much for listening. Thanks for Charles Oakley for joining us. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and this is all ball.

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This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. and we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment,

and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we see. survived it with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that's really not safe to have any with, but you're having him with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing.

How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to, listen to learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed human.