The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - Roy's "Least Gifted" UNC Team; TCU Asst. Duane Broussard On Discovering Danny Granger, Coaching Lonzo Ball

Episode Date: January 11, 2020

This week, Gottlieb dissects Roy Williams comments calling out his team as his least talented ever, why it speaks to the larger lack of top end talent in college hoops, and is joined by TCU Assistant Duane Broussard, who shares his story from playing at Bradley, to passing up a career in the Secret Service to pursue coaching, recruiting Danny Granger, controversy surrounding his transfer to New Mexico, coaching under Steve Alford at New Mexico and UCLA, coaching Lonzo Ball, dealing with LaVar, and if he has eyes for a head coaching job. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. you just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming until he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love.

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I want to share with you my thoughts on two things. One, something Roy Williams said about his team. And just kind of an overall sense in college basketball, plus some more NBA tidbits before we get to our guest this week. By the way, you can listen to the Doug Gottlieb show, 3 to 6 Eastern, 12 to 3 Pacific, on your iHeartRadio app on Fox Sports Radio or FoxportTradio.com or on your terrestrial, that's like your average radio, or Series XM, 217 or 203. So Roy Williams said basically this is the least talented team that he's ever had, and it's not wrong.

And while people are pointing out, hey, there's four stars and five stars still on the roster, even without Cole Anthony, the fact remains that you lose far and away your best freshman. And you lose, I mean, I'm not sure people have a healthy respect for how hard it is to hit reset. you know because think about what they lost from last season last season's team was good I think he did a great job of getting them to play you know together considering you had young players and old players kind of all mixed together but but think about this for a second now okay um you lose Cameron Johnson Kobe White Luke May now Nas Little right and I mean you lose your four

absolute best players. It's not really close, not even close to being close, right? In addition to which, you know, you lose Kenny Williams to graduation. So you lose your five leading scores. It's crazy, right? Lose your five leading scores. And, you know, remarkably, the sixth best score on last year's team was Garrison Brooks, who's averaging 14 a game for you. A couple of things. One, you lose your point guard, this is how you're going to look. It's not like if you lose your quarterback. You know, you look like an inferior coach. Think about Dabo Sweeney.

What did Dabo look like when, before he had to Sean Watson, and now that he has Trevor Lawrence, and what he'd look like when, you know, go through all the other Clemson quarterbacks who are good, but they're just not elite. And elite quarterbacks make you look like an elite coach. But I don't know if everybody thinks they're equipped for the one and done. Remember, they lost two.

one and Duns. Do I think Nasir Little not playing, you know, only playing 18 minutes a game, hurt him in terms of recruiting? Probably a little bit. But whatever was hurt by Nasir Little is helped by Kobe White, who he gave a complete green light to, right? So it's still Carolina.

It's a competitive field. I think this kind of relates to the bigger question about where'd all the players go in college basketball? Where are all the, and this is what happens when there's a Memphis who gets to James Wiseman. And this is what happens when a couple of players go to play overseas, that all of a sudden now, you know, look, on a given year,

there are anywhere between five and 15 great freshmen, five and 15. Five and 15. And when you lose, you know, three of them to overseas or not playing in college, the rest gets spread out. Arizona's got a really young squad. They have a couple of them. go around the country and look you know Nova's got a really young squad mixed in with some older pieces

but they don't have any like kind of breakthrough prolific talents Kentucky has what one and some other freshmen Duke has one and maybe you know and Vernon Kerry and Cassius Stanley I guess you know now Louisville's a player in the elite so when you have Louisville Kentucky North Carolina Duke Memphis Arizona Arizona I know I'm forgetting a couple,

all fighting over the same kind of small group of stars, and you lose a couple off the top, and James Wiseman's not playing, and Cole Anthony gets hurt. And oh yeah, by the way, there are second-level guys who left school early to go to the pros or got upset at a lack of playing time or not being the first-level guys,

and they transferred and they're sitting out. It's not one thing that's led to college basketball, being a lot like North Carolina, right? Roy Williams' argument for this being the least talent team, it's inarguable. And a number of NBA players comparison to any other time he's coached at Carolina and probably most any of the time he's been at Kansas. I would also say, though, the sport is really, really spread out. It's lacking the top end talent.

And even not just the top end talent, that second tier talent has also, you know, transferred, left, whatever. Because it was unhappy or gone to the NBA. because it thought, you know, I mean, look at Iowa State losing two players who don't even have two-way contracts. You know, of course, Iowa State gets blown out. That's why Kansas is the elite team in the Big 12 because they've been able, because Udoca Zabuke 1 got hurt and 2, because his position is really not as desirable in the NBA. You know, and the rest of their team is made up of good, not great players. they've kind of nailed it in that.

Maybe it's not the greatest thing to get the top level recruits. But if you can get guys and play them and keep them in school, you've got a chance to be really good. So I guess the ending statement to what Roy Williams is saying. Look, it's a challenge to recruiting. You have to change when it's a lot of, some teams can survive without a point guard. But if your system is really point guard dependent usually, which is North Carolina says, calls the offenses, calls the defense. And then the buildup of this team was.

completely built around Cole Anthony, then you lose him, and you lost your top five scores from last year. You lost both old and mature and your culture setters, and you lost your new up-and-comers. This is what happens. And this is the challenge of college basketball. And the question becomes, how do you fix it? Right. How do you fix it? Because I know there's a group of people that, well, listen, you just, you just compensate them for name and likeness. They'll stay like, no, they won't because they're not chasing after thousands. They're chasing after millions, even if the millions aren't really there. I feel like we're in this realm where everyone knows the G League is coming on strong and they're going to start.

At some point, someone is going to decide, hey, I'm not going to play in college. I'm going to play in the G league. I don't think it'll go well for them, but they'll still probably get drafted or whatever. Remember, people have been able to do that since the G League was the D League. But I do feel like the G League is coming on strong from a perception standpoint. And we're kind of downplaying what Zion Williamson said this week, which is, you know, truth be told, I would have rather stayed at Duke. I was having a lot of fun. And I'm not sure even if he has a bunch of money, if he's having all that much fun.

I kind of think that's the part that needs to be relayed to basketball people and parents, but especially to the players. Like, look, you're going to make money. If you're really good, you're always going to have a job. But this is the most fun you're ever going to have. and you just don't have nearly as much fun playing in the NBA or playing overseas or playing in the G League. So college basketball is in a weird place. I'm not totally sure how to fix it. I think the NBA is going to try and do what is in the best interest in the NBA and they don't feel like it is keeping kids in college.

It's going to be sending guys to the Glegg. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action. with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the Iheart radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations

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on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. But the G League, but the G League isn't coached by nearly as good of coaches. They don't practice as hard. The level of talent is better. The style of basketball is different. There is no fan support. There is no TV. People don't watch it on TV.

You're losing a bunch of it. But we're in this weird transition period where college basketball, seems to be slipping on some level to the level of college baseball. The difference obviously is there's still really, really good talent, still really, really good coaches. There's incredible resources, the practice facilities, the lower end of the coaching in terms of the assistants and the GAs, like those guys are great workers,

and there's a greater depth of resources than they have for the G League. But the top end talent is just not there. One, because of the season, two, because of, Now you go through three or four years of anybody with a pulse going to the NBA draft, and a couple of guys going overseas, and a couple of guys getting hurt, and one guy choosing to withdraw from college after playing a handful of games. And here we are. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts,

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Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app. All right, let's catch up with him. He's a native of Sugarland, Texas, which of course, Houston, Texas. and then he went and played at Bradley. He's an assistant coach at TCU following a stint at UCLA. He's Dwayne Broussard.

He joins us in the All-Ball podcast. Coach, give me what, we go back. Man, this is going back a long time. Your, your first memory of hoop was what? Oh, maybe four, five years of age. when my father came home one day and had a basketball in the back seat of his car and handed it over to me and said, if you're going to play, then you're going to have to work at it, but here's the ball, so get to work.

Did your dad play? You know what? No, not in college, but played a little bit in high school and some rec leagues when he was older. Good player, but never had a chance to play in college. What do you do for living? I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

What did he do? I'm sorry. That's okay. What do he do for a living? So he went to college on a swimming scholarship. He went to Grambling State University. And then from there, he was drafted into Beyond Forces, went to Germany, and then served time there. That's where I was born.

And then came back to the United States with my mother. and then ended up having a 35-year career with Harris County Probations at Houston, Texas, and has been retired now, I think, for about 12 years. So he was he a parole officer, or did he serve it? Did he work in the jail? He was a probation officer. So, you know, parole is after you get out of the penitentiary, and I think he was before that.

He was before that stage. So 20 days, a probation officer for a long time in Houston. And very successful, very good man. It taught me a lot about life. It still does to this very day. So I'm very proud to be his son. You were a hell of a player, right? You go to Bradley and play.

What was he like, you know, in terms of you, and I know through your travels as an assistant coach, you see all kinds of dads in terms of their involvement. Right. It's weird because some dads, you know, like my dad, probably overly involved, and that's become a little bit more of the norm. You know, not all the kids have a mom and dad in their home,

but the ones that do the moms and dads are really, really involved. What was he like during your basketball career? He was, I would say he was really involved. he gave me a lot of insight, taught me a lot about the game. And there were times, as you can imagine, Doug, and I'm sure he were like this, where I probably didn't want to hear what he had to say

because sometimes I thought he could be a little over-critical. But at the end of the day, I knew he meant well and he loved me. And that's why to this day, if it's not basketball, because I'm a basketball coach, if it's something about life, I do listen to him. I really do. I listen to him, so. But he helped me a lot, helped me a lot about playing the position of point guard

and understanding players and how to build relationships and build trust. And, you know, those lessons have certainly helped me in my profession right now at this very moment. So very, very, very fortunate to have had him in my ear, you know. Yeah, why did you go to Bradley? Well, Bradley at the time was coming off a couple of successful years because I was coming right behind Hershey Hawkins and Jim Blass. And had never really been to the upper Midwest to visit. And during the AAU seasons, when I would play in the summertime,

whenever I would on across individuals of the players from that part of the country, they're always and almost always the ones that were most difficult to guard and play against. So I figured, okay, if I'm playing against these individuals and I'm not having a whole lot of success, then maybe I'll go up there and learn how to play like that. Bradley was very forthcoming in their interests of me and had a position for me, and it was a private school, and I loved a living situation. It just worked out. You know, it worked out.

I had other schools at the time recruiting me, but Bradley was the one that made the most sense at the time. And that's why I went to go play for Stan Elbeck, right? What was he like? I did. I played for Stan Albeck, yeah. I played for Stan Allback for two years, my first two years there. And that was good. You know, it was a different brand of basketball than what I was accustomed to, you know, kind of more open and more fast-paced.

And to be quite honest with you, you took the record books, we weren't very good. first two years there at Bradley and Stan left and then in comes Jim Molinary and I played for Jim Molinary for my last two years and eventually ended up working for him as a coach for nine years so Jim Mulliner and I are great friends today he's like a big brother to me so those last two years I learned a different brand of basketball there Doug I learned how to play defense and so I don't I don't know if you know this, but Jim Mulanary, of course, went to Kansas State. My dad signed him to go to play Kansas State under Jack Hartman. Exactly.

Exactly. So obviously, Coach Mal now is at, Coach Moe, is at Oklahoma. All right. So your first couple years, you're going up and down, going up and down, not a lot of success. Jim Mollinary comes in, and you know how it works nowadays with, you've been a part of new staffs. New staffs generally, you run guys off and you bring in. your own guys. What was it like when Jim O'Norri first got the job?

Did he try and run you off? No, no. As a matter of fact, it was just the opposite. And he'll tell you the story if you ever talk to him. When you take over a new job, obviously, as a coach, you interview all the players and all the support staff, and you kind of get a feel for what's in place. And fortunately, for me, every player that he interviewed,

all of my teammates said, You should keep Dwayne. You should keep Dwayne, okay? And I think because I was a well-liked individual. And so I stayed, and that's kind of how it all happened with me continuing my career and getting a college degree from Bradley. You know, I was, obviously, I was a little nervous because of the coaching change, but it all worked out.

I mean, it all worked out. And I was the start of my junior year. And then there was a crop of freshmen that came in my senior year, and I started half the season, and then the second half of my senior year, I came off the bench as a six-men, which was perfectly fine, because we became a really, really good team, and then when I started coaching, I mean, we were really, really good. So it all worked out. You know, it all worked out, and I was fortunate and pleased to have had a chance to stay and be on coach's staff and be on his team. team. So it all worked out. It was good.

All right. I want to get to a couple of things you learned during the bad years. You're, I think it was your sophomore year. You guys were 8 and 20. Your best player was a guy named Curtis Stucky. He averaged 25 a game. Curtis Stuckey. Right? Okay. How can a guy average 25 a game in the Valley and you guys be so bad? Why did you now win? Well, I think we had, we probably had less of a,

attention to detail in the defensive end. You know, I think we probably had some chemistry issues, and I think those two were the main things. Quite honestly, I think, you know, we probably had, you know, players that didn't work on their game enough.

And as a result, didn't get any better. So I think that's what happens. And that's what typically happens. You know, players aren't as good as they need to be. And, you know, there's no chemistry. and people don't want to work together, if I recall, and that's what happened, and we collapsed.

You know, we collapsed. Your senior year, you mentioned you started coming out the bench. You got a freshman named Dion Jackson, another freshman name Billy Wright, right? Yeah. So what's that like to be, wait, you've been here four years, you've been through all of it. Like, do you remember the emotions of the time, were you really good with it? Were you really that good a teammate? Well, well, initially, no, it was an embarrassing thing, but I had such,

I had forged such a great relationship with Coach Moly there and the staff. And I think on that particular staff, Rob Jackson, who's now at Marquette, and then Richard McKay was on that staff, who is now at Liberty doing a phenomenal job. They pulled me in and told me this would be best for our program. And so, and my leadership ability wouldn't be impacted. So, you know, I bit the bullet, Doug, and accepted my role. and it worked out for the betterment of the team. I still played, didn't play as much. I wasn't playing 27 minutes a game,

but I still recall that in crucial moments, I was on the floor. And at times, Billy Wright, who's now the head coach at Western Illinois, who's a really good friend of mine, he's like a brother to me, was well deserving of that position.

He was. He was well deserving. He had come off of winning a state championship in a state of Indiana at Richmond High School and was very, very good. there's no doubt very, very good. And so it's just something that happened and needed to take place, and it was good. Like I said, we ended up, we had a streak in the second half of the season where,

and my numbers may be wrong with Doug, but we, I think our last nine games, we won seven of them. Do you want to know? Do you want to know because I have it? I do have it in front of me if you'd like to know. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so you're something like that. It started, let's see here, you were eight and three. Let me just make sure this is the right year here.

Sorry, that's not Coach Mal's second year. So this is his, Coach Mal's, what his, you're talking about his second year. So it would have been 92.93. Right, right, right. You were 92, 93. You guys finished up seven and 11 in, in Valley play. At one point in the year, you were five and 14, right? But you won six of your, five of your last six.

is how it was. Five of your last six. Okay, five or last six. Right. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying.

And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs.

the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action

with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me,

your host, and your favorite therapy. Kier Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth,

or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app.

Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clifford Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Clifford Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out.

Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clivert show. the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defying the odds.

Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup,

he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying.

He running up the court, licking his fingers while he got the ball, like, after you go through a training camp with that, I say, you figure it out. real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You beat Indiana State. Yeah, you beat Indiana State of the road. You held them to 36 points, right? That's exactly right. I remember that. You beat Tulsa. It was really good. You beat Tulsa.

You beat Illinois State. You lost to Drake. Right. You beat Northern by like almost 30. Then you beat DePaul in a non-conference last game in the season. and then you lost in overtime to Southern Illinois. That's right. That's right.

That's right. That's right. That's exactly right. And then the following year, the following year is when it all just kind of came together. And I was still a part of that team. I was a coach then. I was a directive operating. So it was good.

That piece was good. All right. So you get done playing. How did it come about that you stayed on staff? Do you remember? Was there a – did you guys have a meeting when your career was over? Did you, did you, coach, Coach Moe about it? How did it work?

No, no, that's so, funny story. A little tidbit here. I had been interviewed my senior year, the second half of my senior year, I had been interviewed by the United States Secret Service three times, because that was the direction I was going to go into. I was going to go work for the Secret Service. And if I didn't do that, then I had an opportunity to go to go to law service. school in Texas. So I was going to do something in law enforcement because that was my background.

So when I graduated, I think, May 15th of that year, I was all set to come back home to Houston and spend about a week or two and then I was going to go off and do all of my education and training with the Secret Service. That's what I was getting ready to do. We had a coaching change. Rich McKay left and went to Washington. And I went home on a Sunday. I graduated on a Saturday. I went home on a Sunday. On Tuesday, Coach Mo called me.

He just called me and says, I had a plane ticket to you at Hobby Airport in Houston. It's time to come back here and start her coaching career. I'm like, oh, that's what it's going to be. And that's how it started. That's exactly how it started. They called the Secret Service and said, I'm out. And I let the people know at that St. Law School in San Antonio, Texas, that I was not going to be attending, and that's how it happened.

That's exactly how it happened. And that was 25 years ago, maybe, 26 years ago. That's what happened. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1-800flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1-800 flowers has thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed to deliver the best birthday surprise. Shop thousands of unique gifts at 1-800flowers.com for exclusive offers and great values. To order today, visit 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. That's 1-800flowers.com

slash tune-in. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too. Because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, We reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. And we're live here outside the Perez family home just waiting for the...

And there they go. Almost on time this morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double-armed kid carry. Looks like Dad has the bags. Daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but... the diaper bag wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter who looks to be about nine or ten

has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed and they're off. Ah, but looks like mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car and there it goes. Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fan favorite. Don't sweat this, ma'am. stuff. Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at NHTSA.gov slash the right seat. Visit NHTSA.gov.

Slice the right seat. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council. What was your salary your first year? Do you remember? Well, I was a restricted earnings coach. And so you being well-versed in all of college athletics, I mean, you

understand that terminology. I was allowed to I think make no more than $24,000 a year, but it wasn't that. It was a lot less than that. It was a lot less than that. It was probably somewhere in the teams, if I recall. So it wasn't a lot. Wasn't a lot.

But I was very fortunate and very thankful, working for my alma mater and working for Coach Mullenaires. So it was a good situation. It was a really good situation. How did that relationship evolve? He didn't recruit you. You become a player. You're a starting point guard.

then you come off the bench for him. Then he hires you as a coach. These are different ways in which how to evolve. Now you're an assistant coach right out of college. What was your relationship like with Jim? Well, I trusted him. I trusted him. And I think part of the reason I trusted him so much is because he had proven himself to be a great man of integrity.

You know, his faith, which we connected on a spiritual level that way. It told me a lot about life, you know, through his faith and through his integrity. And even though I may not have played the minutes that a junior or senior would sometimes deserve because of all the sacrifices that you go through, I still was an integral part of the team and had a tremendous leadership role. And I think that's where he saw something in me that would allow me. to be able to become a coach. I had a tremendous relationship with the young guys,

and he thought, even though we were teammates, Doug, there was still enough separation in age where if I needed to convey a message or get across instructions that I would still hold and have the respect of my former teammates and now the guys that I was coaching. He saw that in me, and he empowered me to, to be that way with our young players. And so that forwarded our relationship more.

Your best player was, your first year was a freshman named Anthony Parker. He went on to become, you know, in the conference. There's been some great players at Bradley, obviously historically. Anybody who's been to Peoria knows how big Bradley basketball is and what a great basketball talent is. You're a first year coach.

What were your initial impressions of Anthony Parker? Parker? You know, I hosted him on his recruiting visit. So the year before, when I was a senior, he came to campus. And I found him to be a very intelligent, quick-witted, very talented individual. You know, I had watched film on him and had kind of saw his skill set, but had no idea, had no idea that he would evolve and develop into the player that he was at Bradley. But initially, I thought he would be a really good fit for us because he was exactly what we needed at the time. We didn't necessarily have a primary score at his position. And so it was a great fit, you know, and he was just below the high major, you know, qualification.

You know, he probably could have went to a high major school, but may not have been able to play his freshman year and gain all that experience and confidence that he did that a lot of. and it would be so good for us. But I knew in our system, I just had a feeling that he would end up being a pretty good player, you know, and not to mention his siblings, you know, like I remember this like it was yesterday. It's like I remember Candace when she was really, really little, you know, and then it all has kind of evolved.

And she's one of the best players ever in women's basketball. So, but great family, you know, great family. So he was a good fit, Doug, is what I'm saying. that's how I knew it would possibly work. And we needed him for that position. I know the Valley ended up having later on, you know, when, you go to the late 90s, really 2000s had maybe more overall success in the tournament. But that was probably the golden era of the Valley, right?

I mean, you had several different coaches. Tubby, obviously, in the late, in the mid-90s, had Tulsa, and they were playing fast. You guys were winning 20. a game. You know, Missouri State, when you had spoon there, obviously he was winning a ton of games. What was the toughest place to play as a player as a coach in those days of the Valley? Well, I think you just mentioned them. So Tulsa, because they had such tradition, was very difficult to play in.

I mean, the fans were just amazingly into games. And they're very knowledgeable Missouri State, which was at the time Southwest Missouri State, was also tough because the fans were right on top of you, right on top of you. So that was pretty tough. And even Wichita State, I can't recall that Wichita State was kind of in a decline then. I can't remember, but I know it was still difficult to play there. Southern Illinois was difficult to play at. And even in the Illinois State, you know, you think back on it.

it, you know, with Kevin Stallings and what he was able to do there. It was just, it was just fascinating. And I think that's what made the Valley so competitive. It was a great basketball league. You had great fan support. You were on TV, and I think you had a level of talent that for that particular lead was outstanding. It was just completely outstanding, you know.

So not to mention you had Creighton and then Northern Iowa was pretty good as well. So it was really good. It was very fun to play. and to coach you. Why did you guys lose momentum? You know, that's a really good question. I think, you know, I think when you, for a long period of time, when you recruit a certain

area, I think the talent level in that area that we were recruiting kind of waned a little bit. Which is where, like, downstate, downstate Illinois, is that, yeah. Well, Bradley is Central Illinois. You know, Bradley's Central Illinois. And, you know, we had some really good teams like Manual. I'm sure you've heard about Manuel.

Manuel had the likes of, you know, Frankie Williams and Sergio McLean. But they all went to Illinois. Exactly. We were never going to get those players. You know, we were just never going to get those players. So I think, you know, not being able to recruit the same way. and, you know, just maybe other places just getting better and having more of a run. And, you know, things just happen that way.

So I think that's just kind of how it all went down. When you have to leave, it's one thing to leave a program where you coached for nine years, but you played there for four years. It's 13 years at one place. What do you remember about the emotions of leaving Bradley? It was frightening, you know, and I had, I think by the time that I left Bradley, I might have been married for three years, and my wife is from Peoria and all of her family's there. So it was frightening on the one end, but on the horizon we could see great adventure on the other.

and so and then I was leaving a man who I had entrusted my life to basically for the past 13, 14 years you know, maybe 12 years because I only played for him for two years

but so it was, yeah, it was scary but exciting at the same time so and it worked out and it all worked out so

it did So Danny Granger was the best young player in Bradley's program. You guys get fired. What happened next? So then I went to New Mexico. Actually, I went to Oregon State because Richie McKay had done such an incredible job and an amazing job at Colorado State, I think, and then he had went to Oregon State and was there.

and so he hired me at Oregon State for two months. And then after that, he got interest from New Mexico, went to New Mexico, and then we went there. So then I spent the next 11 years of my career at New Mexico. Okay, but you're skipping over your, let's not skip over all this good stuff. Okay, so. Right, right, right, right.

So Richie, of course, had been on staff at Bradley when you were there. Yes. You guys get fired. This is the way it works. As most people who listen in this pod, no, it's all about your basketball family. Richie reaches out to you and he says come come be on my staff at Oregon at Oregon State. So did you and your wife find a house? Were only you out there?

Did she stay in Peoria? What happened? No, we went out. We went out and we did find a house and we were in the beginning stages of purchasing a house. And I think we were there maybe two days and everything was fine. and I go back to Peoria, and then there's the final four. The final four happened.

And then it became crazy because Richie was then approached by New Mexico at the time, and I think it was Rudy Dabbles. Rudy Dabbles from V.A.D. And Richie called me one night and said, hey, did you sign your papers for the house? And I said, ah, no, but I was about to. He says, well, you better hold off because I think we might be going to Albuquerque. I'm like, oh, okay.

And I think I was in Lowell at the time, you know, trying to get some, trying to get some items from my house in Peoria. And because I knew I was going to move, so it's going to have to tidy up some things. And I could remember looking at my wife. And this overwhelming sense of stress just kind of clouded her face. And I just told us, honey, it's going to be okay. So then we ended up going to New Mexico. And, you know, there were some other things that took place, obviously, because we had that situation with Danny Granger.

You know, that was something that I can't, you know, not talk about. But, you know, you mentioned that Danny Granger was one of the best players that we had ever had at Bradley. And then all of a sudden, I leave. and then the following year he has this tremendous first half of the year and things just didn't work out for him

and then he leaves and then he leaves and ends up at New Mexico and so if anybody's following the story they know that there was a lot of NCA confusion that took place with all that but at the very end

nothing really happened and everything was finally. and then he was able to transfer successfully to New Mexico, sit out of year, and they're going to have a very successful career there to Mexico. Okay, so, look, this is a perfect opportunity. Okay, so let's start with the beginning. First time you saw Danny Granger, was it in Metterrey, Louisiana?

Where was it? So it was actually, ironically, it was in Dallas, Texas. It was in Dallas, Texas at a AU event, Mike Koonstead, who is, He runs a longtime talent scout. He runs Texas basketball review. When he was just starting out in the business, he would put on these showcases,

just like your father would and like Dinos and California would. He just would run these showcases here in North Texas. And he was good. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. Every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action, with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, We get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, is we have really.

Real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee.

We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Rhett, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Ms. Parker.

Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam, it's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows.

Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us

on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball, like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah,

you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The best local A's teams, as well as teams from Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma,

and in some cases, Kansas. And so I had a buddy who lived in New Orleans, and he told me, hey, there's a kid from Grace King High School that you should go see, and his name is Michael Thugs. Okay? I said, okay, I'll go take him out because I trust this individual. As a matter of fact, this individual was now the head coach at the University of New Orleans. Okay, it's Marks Lesinger.

and Mark told me, go see this kid named Michael Sucks. I'm like, okay. So this is a Friday afternoon. I get into town and I hustle over to North Texas and I get my spot and I'm watching Michael Sucks. Michael Sucks is a 6 foot 6, 6 foot 7 guard, left-handed, fairly athletic and can really score. So I'm watching, but I'm not really focusing on him. I'm focusing on this other individual because the other individual was playing really, really well. He happened to be 6'9.

He was long. He was dribbling, passing, and shooting, and blocking shots. And I'm saying about to say, who is this kid? So it turns out that Danny, who I was looking at, not Michael Suggs, was the person that I should have been watching. Danny and Michael Suggs are cousins. and they play high school basketball together. So I just happened to see Danny perform at such a high level, and I knew back in the Missouri Valley,

there really wasn't a player like Danny. And that's what intrigued me so much about him. I thought, okay, if a player like that gets into the valley, it's almost like, you know, catching lightning in a bottle, because he's so personal. He can play inside. He can play out. He can block shots.

He can guard the poles. He can guard the perimeter. And on top of that, he was very, very, very bright, and he wanted engineering. And Bradley at the time was known for engineering. So the recruiting process started when I saw him and did in Texas before his junior year in high school. And the rest, it turns out, I mean, he ended up being a pretty good player. Okay, so you're at Oregon State for two months, and Richie comes in. Well, it wasn't quite two months.

It's like two weeks, actually. I'm sorry. If I said you were there, two weeks. And Richie comes in and says, we're going to New Mexico. And you're like, okay, giddy up. You go to New Mexico. When did take me through? What was the process like then?

Because now they get the transfer portal, you know? But this is, I mean, like, look, you kind of got a tipto. It's your alma mater. On the other hand, it's also the place to fire you. And look, you're trying to get it going at New Mexico. If you can get a player that you recruited, you go. you go do it, how did it really go down? Well, well, in his deal, his deal, he's in no way, shape, or form, are you asking me

to disparage the place that I went to school? I know you're not asking me that. So, these are just the facts, okay? These are just the facts, okay? Yes, at the time I was ambitious, okay? At the time I was ambitious, okay, so you're thinking, okay, brand new assistant coach, you try to make a splash, this place is known for winning. All right.

But it didn't go down that way, Doug. It didn't go down that way because at the very end, remember, at the very end, nothing really happened with the NCAA. And you and I both know the NCAA is very thorough in what they do, okay? Really what it came about of that was just a basically a strong enough relationship that Danny felt comfortable so that because there was no transfer portal and all this other stuff that goes on the day, Danny just left Bradley.

that's what he just left Bradley. Now I know that maybe hard to believe, but he left Bradley, and he had nowhere else to go. And so he comes to New Mexico. And that's how it worked. That's exactly how it worked. So that's the story. How come you didn't take Michael Suggs?

Boy, Michael Suggs' cousin. He's like, hey, hey, I can't go to New Mexico, too? No, no, Michael Suggles is on scholarship at Bradley. And he decided to stay because that was, in the best interest of him. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them.

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So you get Danny Granger. And for people who don't, I mean, I think people now, because Richie is at Liberty, and I covered you guys some there. Like, Richie is that Richie, and of course he reinvigorated his career working under Tony Bennett. And like there are lots of people who are, I would, for lack of a better term, false prophets, right? Guys that have a Bible in one hand, but the other hand you have no idea. like Richie appears to be the real deal. What is that like to work for somebody who is so full of faith that there is no question about how you do it in terms of doing it the right way? Like look, New Mexico had not always, has not always before you guys got there been accused of doing it the right way.

I think Fran did, but there's some other stuff before that. But Richie is a, I mean, Richie is the real deal, isn't he, in terms of not just his faith, but also practicing. No, he's authentic. No, he's authentic. He's authentic. He's authentic. And because of that, you know, he and I had a very trusting relationship. And he looked out for me, and it was a really good situation. It was a really good situation. So, and he has never wavered on his faith. He has never wavered on his character, nor his integrity. And so, it was, it was really, really good. It was really good. Obviously, you guys were great when you had Danny. Why couldn't Richie sustain it there?

Well, you know, I think as the story goes, he may not have been to Mexico's first choice or second choice. Right. And so when you're not the first or second choice. Was that when they wanted, but didn't they want Bob Knight then when they hired? Was that when they hired him? There was a rumor they were going to get Bob Knight, and then Bob Knight ended up going to Texas Tech, I think, right?

Like that feels like around the same time. That I don't know. I think, I don't know. It may have been Bob Knight or it may have been somebody else, but I think they thought they were, I think they thought they were going to get Rob Evans. And I think they had solidified plans to hire Rob Evans.

And then the next day, everybody in Albuquerque wakes up, and it's Richard McKay. So I think that's kind of the way the story went. What? So Richie Richie gets fired But you didn't leave Okay so for people who haven't heard this story

This part of the story amazes me So Richie gets fired Why didn't you go find another coaching job? Why did you stay? Well, I made a choice I made a conscious choice And decision To try to create a stable environment

for my family, as opposed to chasing my ambition as a coach. And at the time, my wife and I felt like Albuquerque was a good place to raise our children. You know, they were in school. She was happy. Everything was working. My parents were in Texas. I was a little bit closer to home. And so we just decided, okay, we're going to try to make this work.

And so I went to the administration there. and I said, I don't know if there's anything that you can do, but if it can be worked out, I'd like to stay. And they made it work. They made it work. And so I ended up working on campus, teaching a class, working basically in fundraising, and then doing some outreach for athletics, and then also doing some things for enrollment services,

like actually going out throughout the school of Mexico and recruiting. And so I had a number of different jobs so that my salary could work. And it was hard work, but it was probably, honestly, before I got back into coaching, it was probably one of the most fulfilling 18 to 24 months of my life from a professional standpoint. And my family in that span of time grew closer together. my kids were able to enjoy a stable environment and it was good. It was much needed.

And so that's what I did. I made the choice to be with my family and to make sure they were stable as opposed to ripping and running all around the country. Right. So how did you end up on staff with Steve Alford? So Steve, during his first year, and I had known Steve because of his

Missouri State days and my Bradley days. We competed against each other. So I was very familiar with him. As a matter of fact, the Dion Jackson player that you mentioned, and you can do the research on this in the Missouri Valley Conference tournament one year, Dion Jackson basically throws up a hell-marry prayer shot three-pointed

and it goes in and it beats Steve's team to go to the championship game against Tulsa in the Missouri Valley Conference Championship. And I can't, I think that was 95. I can't remember what it was, but anyway. So I had known Steve for quite some time, and I had known his staff. He had movement on his staff after his first year. Director of Operations opened up, the double spot.

And so I had been talking to Craig Neal just because I knew him, and we had a relationship. And then Chris Walker was also on his staff, along with Ryan Miller, where I work with now, but Chris Walker and I grew up together. Chris Walker and I played in the same AAU program in Houston, Texas growing up. So Chris and Craig

I think started talking to Steve. And to this day, I think the both of them, there are great men to have done that. So Steve calls me and says, what do you want to do? And that's what do you mean? He says, do you want to come join my staff? Because we can certainly use you.

And I'm like, sure, coach. And at the time, it made sense for me to be the directive operations because, again, I had small children. and I just wasn't ready to get back on the road right away. But being the director of operations kept me close enough to the game where I thought I could still have the same impact with the players, still enjoy the game of basketball, which I love,

and grow my career in a different direction, and learn something new. And so it made sense without having to travel as much because I didn't have to recruit. So that's why I've made sense to go back with Steve. and the relationship from there grew tremendously. I mean, he and I forged a great,

powerful relationship to his dad. I mean, he's probably one of my best friends. I mean, he's a good man. So I appreciate. How did that be, because when I switched from ESPN to CBS,

my first couple, my first year at CBS was your, your guys last year. And it was the end of a run. It was, how? At New Mexico. Yeah, it was the end of a run where you guys won the league four out of five years,

which is virtually unheard of. And for people who forget, right, that's when San Diego State was close to their people. You're talking, right? And you guys were tremendous. Nevada was up and down. Nevada was down a little bit then. UNLV was very good. They had pros.

It was a really, really good league. And BYU, before they left the league, was very, was very, very good. Utah as well. What's the secret to Steve's success? Because I think people will look at the UCLA thing. And even though he won 30 games, one year 28, another, there'll be people who say, well, Steve Alford didn't do what he's supposed to.

But I mean, look, what you guys did in New Mexico is unbelievable. How? What by your estimation made that New Mexico run possible? Well, you know, I think Steve was really big on preparation. And I think he was very good at preparing our young men for the right things in games. And our young men were never really shocked at what took place in games, and they were able to perform, whether it was home or away, at such a high level. And then you throw on top of that being very fortunate to grab some high quality recruits that stayed and we got older.

Okay. Stayed and got older. And you may not remember that. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so rapidly. up in the chase, that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about

All healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game.

This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player. to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before.

And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us

on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball.

So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. But Steve's first year, he won 20-something games. Okay? Right. 24. There was, there was, there was talent there. We just needed a different direction in leadership. That's how it works, okay? So the program had already been jumpstarted,

and then he adds some young players, plus some transfers, with a system that was able to get up and down and play and defend and have this amazing crowd behind you, I think it created a lot of momentum. I think it created a lot of momentum. You had this weird thing. Your second year you had something that was really interesting. You had a couple of your best players from Albuquerque, right?

Which, like, look, New Mexico is already, if you haven't been to the pit when they're good, I would challenge anybody to find a better environment. The place since it's been redone is perfect. Obviously, you've got altitude, but more than anything, students are always nuts, right? And every place has a guy like snake, right? They all have a play guy like snake who's off. But the locals there are crazy. And then when you had, was it Chad, was it Toppert and Daniel Ferris?

Topper. Topper and Ferris, right? To go with Tony Dandridge. Like, you got to come to a local kids who were playing. That place was bonkers. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And those kids were around four years, right?

And they had name recognition, and people knew of them, and they were good players. They were good players. And we also had a young man from El Paso, Texas, named Ramon Martinez, who was pretty good, and he was with that group. You know, and then, like I mentioned before, we had a couple of transfers. You had Jared Giddens in that group, and so, and that was face hurt through, obviously. But, but again, I just think there was such a massive following, and Steve just just, hit it at the right time and created a lot of momentum. Create a lot of momentum.

There's a couple guys I want to ask, a couple guys I want to ask you about in terms of, because one of the things I think you guys did a really good job of is player evaluation, right? It's because, like, look,

Tony Snell's from Riverside, right? He became a hell of an NBA player, but he wasn't crazy, heavily recruited. You weren't fighting UCLA for him, you know? No.

How did, take me through the evaluation process of somebody like a Tony Snell? So, Joaquin Jones, who was a former coachie Cal, was on our staff at the time at New Mexico. And he had connections because before that I think he was the grassroots director at Nike. I may be saying that wrong, but I think he did something to that effect. So he had a wealth of knowledge about players from, in particular, Los Angeles. because that's where he's from. So Tony Snell, along with Kauai Leonard, along with Jamal Franklin, they all grew up together.

They're all very good friends. And they were all out in the Riverside area, I think the San Bernardino area, California, which didn't get a lot of recognition then. It just didn't, you know, it just didn't get a lot of recognition. And we were fortunate to be able to bring him on campus. But again, Tony Snell was long. we could see that offensively running him off screens and being able to rise above the defense and shoot and his feel for the game in terms of what he could do off the dribble could probably work

in our system could probably work. And when Tony first got there, he was attempting to get his academics in order so he didn't play the first semester. And Tony and I spent just about every day. of that first semester building our relationship. So now there was a trust, you know, because he wasn't a real sociable kid, Doug. It just wasn't. But again, I think that's why the Albuquerque environment was good for him

because people embraced him for who he was. And at the time, the expectations for him weren't very high. So then he was able to grow into his role. And it worked. And we put him in a place where he could be successful. We had an offensive and defensive system that, that highlighted what he can do, and he lifted weight. He became a better student and the rest of the history.

And that's how it worked. That's how it worked. You had a kid named Cameron Berstow, who is awesome. He made the NBA, which is crazy. When he first showed up on campus in New Mexico, what do you remember? I remember a kid that was very hungry, okay? And Ryan Miller was on our staff at TCU was the lead on that. He had some connections over in Australia, and I had a couple of myself.

But when he allowed on campus, I mean, he was hungry for everything. He was hungry for food. He was hungry to get better. He was hungry to get stronger. I mean, he was hungry, Doug. Every day, every day after practice, he would take advantage of getting in the gym to lift weights and then going and getting to the hydrotherapy pools, okay, showing up on time doing everything. He just wanted to be a player.

He just wanted to be a player at a time when his physicality was at a premium. Like, he was the most physical player we had, and we were playing in a league that at the time, I don't recall it being that physical. You know, it was a good up-and-down league at times, and guys could score, and there was some talent there. But a person that was really physical, and see, that was his superpower, and he worked at it. And he worked at it for four years, and I think that's why he made the NBA. He just was so hungry to be a great player. So Steve signs a 10-year contract.

You guys won the league. I called the game where you lost to Harvard, obviously, and I thought... You're right. I think it was Barristow who got in a foul trouble, and they went small on you. And what was it? Laurent Rivard or whatever would end up hitting a bunch of threes on you guys. But you come back home... Yeah, from the corner.

The ball three defense was a little shake. Yeah. Well, I mean, like, I thought you should have gone, I thought you should have gone small. And he kept one, Steve wanted to stay with his strength and play with your bigs. Anyway, he signs a 10-year contract. You're like, all right, you know, I've been here through two staffs. I stayed even when I wasn't a coach. And then all of a sudden he's like, no, I'm going to go to UCLA. What do you remember about when Steve said I'm going to UCLA? Well, let me see. It was about 10 hours, okay?

It was about 10 hours. So Steve called me at 9 o'clock at night. It was on a Friday. And so 10 hours prior to it, I had gotten a call from a buddy of mine in Los Angeles, who's an agent. And he said, hey, you know, you need to get ready for this because I think you're moving to Los Angeles. I said, well, why do I be moving to Los Angeles? Because he told me at the time that he thought Steve was going to be the next coach.

it's UCLA. I'm like, yeah, whatever. That's exactly what I said. I said, whatever. So I hang up the phone, and I go on about my day. And then at 9 o'clock at night, Steve calls me, and I think something's wrong, Doug. Something's wrong because I would talk to Steve all the time, but typically at night he wouldn't call me because that was family time. It was family time. So he calls me, I think something's wrong. And then he just tells me, he says, look, we've had a tremendous run here at New Mexico. And it's been great for everybody, okay? but it's time to move on, and I'm going to go to UCLA.

And at that particular juncture, when he said that, the next words that were getting ready to come out of my mouth, we're going to be, well, congratulations, coach, you deserve it. Hey, good luck. But I have a chance to do that because he said, and you're coming with me. And I'm like, oh, okay. And then he hung up the phone, and then we met the team the next day. That's exactly how it happened. And I told my wife, and then it's like, oh, okay, here we go.

Okay, it's interesting, though, because you go from not being on his initial staff to the DOBO, and obviously, Newtuce Craig Neal end up staying behind and getting the job, but to be going, you're the only guy he took with you. That had to mean an incredible amount. Oh, it meant the world to me, Doug. admit the world to me that he would consider me

for a job of that magnitude admit the world to me it spoke volumes about what he felt and what he thought about my ability and my character and the job that I could do so yeah it was

it was quite it was quite an honor and it made me feel really really welcomed and a part of his family for real you know So it was good.

I was very pleased, and it was a privilege to do that for him to ask me. You go to L.A. and now a sudden you're in L.A., and this isn't what you had been a part of ever in your basketball life, where everywhere else you have to hope that somebody else doesn't want the kid that you are going after. At UCLA, you can pick any handout that has the top 10 kids a position. you pick from the top 10 what is the difference like in trying to recruit at a UCLA also look

now L you know my brother when he was at Cal Mike Montgomery's like you don't want to have too many L.A. kids the parents have an angle they want a reality show just this too much what was that like for a kid from Sugarland Texas by way of Bradley by way of of Albuquerque? It was everything that you would expect to be Doug

I mean, it was basketball on a world stage. It's a historically rich, tradition-oriented place, expectations out of the roof, and rightfully so. And so it was daunting, to say the least, to walk the grounds of Westwood and of the campus and to be in Pauly Pavilion. it was quite an experience. So much so, and I told this story to a lot of people, every day that I was at work there before I would get out of my car, you know, I'd have to say a prayer because it's one of those jobs. It demands the very best every single day of what you have to offer.

And I've always been that way. I'm always going to give 100% no matter where I am. But I think there it became more crystallized. because now everybody was really watching. Everybody was watching. But it was, and it's not a but, I shouldn't say but, but it was a very unique and fascinating experience for me. I enjoyed it.

It was good. I got to ask, though, like, you go from, you go from New Mexico, and in New Mexico, when you guys had it rolling, you guys would roll into Thomas and Max Center at UNLV, and it would be like the pit, right? you had incredible fan support. Right. Now you go to UCLA where they got more banners than anybody. And it's really hard, even though the building is brand new and it's UCLA and it's Steve Alford,

it's really hard until you had Lonzo was really hard to draw people. What was that like for, especially for Steve, not just you, but for Steve, a guy who like, dude, he's Indiana schoolboy legend. He had sold out high school games when more people than UCLA games. What is that like as a staff to process? Well, I think you just, we had to get accustomed to the fact that sometimes because of the game times and because of the early traffic, you may not have people at the beginning of games. But typically, if I recall during the first year, especially when we kind of started winning, our crowd are pretty good toward halftime and beyond, okay? But that wasn't the amazing part about it, though, Doug.

But the crowd, that's one thing, okay? But we can't play for the crowd, correct? We can't. We have to play to win and have to coach our guys. What was the most amazing part to me was sitting on the bench and looking on the floor and say, wow, you know, there's like potential NBA players on this floor. And I have a chance to coach these guys. That was the most fascinating part to me. Were they as coachable as the New Mexico guys?

Oh, no question. And the reason I say that, and you'll probably agree with me, guys that are coachable and guys that work together typically can win, okay? They typically can win. Ben Holland had put together a great recruiting class, and he had great players there, okay? They just happened to buy into what Steve was talking about, all right? We won 28 games a year. So it was working, and they were coachable.

They really were coachable. think at that stage when and maybe this is not the case because I haven't been everywhere so I'm not trying to generalize I just know about the kids we had there that first year the kids we had there they were open to everything

and they listened okay from Kyle Anderson to Norman Powell to the Ware Twins to Jordan Adams to Jack Levine you know Bryce Sawford Tony Parker they they listen

and it worked. So just going back to my original thought, that was the amazing part to be in a program where you actually have a chance to coach that type of student athlete. It was amazing. It was truly amazing. How come,

I always felt like when Steve's teams at New Mexico were tough, as you pointed out, Bear Stowe, rugged, you guys were great and physical defensively. It felt like, and obviously this is after, Lonzo and Bryce graduated. But it always felt like you struggled to get that same sort of physicality defensively. Was it the type of kid?

Was it you didn't have a leader that was tough? Why did, because Steve's teams were tremendous defensively, and yet when you got to, when you got to Westwood, they weren't the same. Why do you think that was? Well, I think it probably had a little bit to do with us being just young. I think that's what it ended up being, Doug. I mean, after Bryce and Lanzo and that group left, and we became really, really young. You know, we didn't have, I don't know, we had very few juniors.

I don't even think we had any juniors on that fifth year team. I don't know, you could probably look at it right in front of it. I can't remember, but I think that was part of it. You know, just having players that were young and talented but not understanding what it took to win at a high level consistently. Okay, that's what I think was happening. And that's, I think that's, that ended up being probably our demise, to be honest. So not getting old enough.

What, what, uh, what was it like to coach Lonzo? Lonzo was, he was, you know what he was like, Doug? He was like, you know, when you grew, when you were growing up and you had Greg, we'd get together, and mom and dad would get you a toy like a, like a car, you just wind it up and you just let it go. That's what it was like. you just gave him a couple of instructions. And because of his feel for the game, you never really worried about him making the right play.

Whether it was on offense or defense. And if he happened to make a mistake, you knew that he was probably going to do 16 things better the next time. So it was coaching at a level that really wasn't stressful when he was on the floor. I mean, he was able to interpret to a team what Steve wanted, and he was able to convey that in his own way to his teammates. And it just worked.

I mean, it was, it worked. He knew exactly what play to make and when to make it. And he had been playing on such a high level up until that point. And he was playing with all these expectations because, I mean, as you know, probably since the time he was eighth grade, ninth grade, the spotlight was on him and his family so much that he just embraced it. And so when he got to UCLA, it was just the next step. It just was the next step. And so coaching him, that was a treat.

That was really a treat to coach him. He was phenomenal for us. How did, how did, how, what was it like to coach Lonzo with LeVar? Like did you guys, when LaVar said you guys are going to win national championship, when he complained about other guys on the team, you know, specifically about Bryce and white kids playing defense? What was that? What was that like?

Yeah, I think LeVar in particular, and I know him and I love him. And I know him and love him simply because in the recruiting process, we had spent so much time together, okay? And I knew exactly what he was trying to do, okay? He was promoting, which is perfectly fine. The next day when he would make those comments, he would call me, and he would just laugh about it. And we would just shrug it all of it,

and we would just try to maintain focus with our team. That sort of stuff didn't start happening until later in longer with freshman year. And at that time, we couldn't really focus on that, Doug. We had to focus on our team. Okay? So that's how we had to manage it. This is how we had to manage it. That's what happened.

If you could make one different decision in terms of guys or things that, is there anything you felt like you could have done personally? as Steve's your Steve, Steve Alford's right-hand guy. Is there something you could have done

to save it? Well, you know, you have to have heavy shoulders to coach there, right? You know,

I think about it all the time. I do. I think about it all the time and maybe being stronger and communicating to him what we needed to do, you know, in the area is the game

that we needed to focus on. You know, maybe getting older, maybe becoming more, more physical. You know, that's, and I probably should have stepped up and talked about those things more with him. But that would probably be it. That would probably be it.

Now you work for Jamie Dixon, a guy who he's had super physical teams, right? He's coaching now at his alma mater, much like you coached. What is Jamie like in comparison to the other men you've worked for? You know, they're all very, very bright. individuals. You don't get to the level of head coach and stay there for a long time without having a firm grip on how to coach the game and how to recruit it and how to relate to people. You just can't. And so, Jamie's no different in that area. There's no different in that area. I think in practice, he is a fierce competitor, and I think he tries to put our young men

in adverse situations so that when game time comes. Um, nothing is ever a surprise. Nothing is ever surprised. And I've noticed that about him. And the thing that I probably appreciate about him the most is he never lets you feel sorry for yourself. And he never allows you to make excuses. He never allows you the opportunity to feel like you can be complacent.

He just keeps moving it forward. and that to me has been an area in my life in particular where I've needed to improve, you know, dealing with success. You know, how do you deal with that? Do you lighten up or stop working or do you keep pushing? And being with Jamie for the past seven months, I mean, it's been remarkable in that area, remarkable. What do you think you have to do to get that head coaching job? I continue to win and continue to recruit well. and just continue to pray, Doug.

It's really out of my control. It's out of anybody's control. You know, sometimes it's a little bit of luck here. It's who you know there and where you're positioned. You know, and I don't worry about it as much anymore. I just go out and try to do the very best job that I can do. I try to represent myself and my family and the institution and the staff that I'm working with for the best of my ability.

That's what I try to do. And if someone recognizes that and they see, that my skill sets can help them be their head coach, then you know what? I probably will get an opportunity. If not, then that's okay too. That's okay, too.

All right. Let me go through these men that you work for. Jim Molynery, his greatest strength is what? It's personal integrity. It's personal integrity. But yeah, but if I go, but okay,

as a coach, like do you think, because, I mean, then I go, Richard McCain, you probably say the exact same thing. thing as a coach.

I would say, I would say Richie's compassion. I would say rich's compassion. But if you're talking about, like, as a coach. As a coach. I would say, I would say his defensive prowess. I think he has a genius-like makeup when it comes to defense.

Okay. Does he, does he teach, does he teach, was he, because now everybody's loading up in the ball. It's kind of packline. Did he force middle? Did he force baseline? No, we played packline defense. There were more packline defense.

That's what we were, if I recall correctly. Okay. Richie, what was Richie's greatest strength as a coach? Well, I think Richie was the opposite. I think Richie has a phenomenal offensive mind. Steve Alford. I think Steve Alford understands how to teach motion at a high, high level. Yeah, yeah.

Steve Alford also has. high level. Yes. I mean, look, you guys really screened well. You moved well. Exactly. Exactly. The screening part, to me, was the part that so few teams, you know, obviously, Virginia

wins a national championship and they screen the hell out of you. But I felt like you guys might have been, at New Mexico, you might have been the best screening team in the country. That was part of that physicality. Yeah. Reader React. Yeah. He was, I'm just telling you, and rightly so, I mean, he played for probably, arguably

one of the best pure coaches in the game. You know, so all that was, you know, it's funny, too, because Chris Beard coached under Bob Knight, and Chris Beard runs incredible motion, you know. Unbelievable. All right, Jamie Dixon. Something that surprised you about Jamie Dixon as a coach that you didn't know before you coached under him. I think he understands great spacing on offense.

Great spacing. And I didn't know that. because I just kind of assume that with all of his teams at Pitt, and I watched, but I watched from afar, and I thought he was extremely successful, but you always would hear Jamie Dix's teams are tough, you know, they're defensive-oriented, all this stuff, but when I got him to practice and I started to understand

what he was teaching on offense, I was amazed. I mean, he does a phenomenal job and teaching him stuff. space. And, and, you know, that's, that, and also, too, helping our players understand where the defense might be, and then you go make a move, you know, whether it's drawing kick or or driving the second or third side or you swing the ball, and here comes the ball screen, and then you hit the throwback guy or the behind guy. It's been amazing to be a part of that. Amazing to be a part of that. Coach you admire from, are you talking about from afar?

Give me one coach you admire from afar. Well, I don't know if he's coaching now. Does it have to be a pro-coach or a college coach? No, it can be anybody you want. Bernie Bickerstaff. Why is that? So, growing up in Houston, Texas, I was a ball boy for the Houston Rockets for nine years. So I was a ballboy during the time of, from the beginning of Rudy Tom Johnovich,

Moses Malone all the way to Ralph and the Key. So I was a ballboy doing that span of time. He was a coach with the Seattle Supersonics. And the way that he handled Xavier McDaniel and Dale Ellis was phenomenal because at the time, Doug, when I was a ball boy, I was working behind the visiting bench. I did that for eight years. Even when I was like as early as third and fourth grade, I was behind the bench. and so I probably didn't pay as much attention to the strategy of coaching and how he did it, but certainly how he challenged his players and how they respected him.

And for that, he's always been one of the most admired coaches in my entire life. Because Xavier McDaniel was a heck of a player. You know that. And it wasn't always easy to deal with. No, no. No, no. Your personal, he doesn't have to be your best player, your personal favorite player you've ever coached. Probably can't, probably can't quantify that in just one, but I will tell you this. I'll say this. Aaron Holliday, Aaron Holliday is a very good player, Doug.

Very good player. Aaron Holliday. All right. Listen, it's been amazing to catch up with you. It makes me excited about watching TCU play just because I know you and I got to know each other some. I know you getting to know my brother some. And now all of a sudden I'm all in on where your next stop is. This has been remarkable. And I congratulate you.

It's one of those things I think you have it. But I don't know if it's like I talk to my brother about this all the time. And honestly, Jay Billis taught me this. Jay Billis said, how old are you? And I said at the time, I think I was like four. And he's like, look, you basically got to you about like, you know, like 55. Once you're 55 on TV, they're kind of, there's 60, they're kind of done with you. Like, and if you can work, you know, like what we call work for your entire life covering basketball or covering sports, you're not really working.

And so, yeah, do you want to, like you said, your perspective is amazing that if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen, right? If I don't take the next step in my career, but to be able to provide for your family while loving sports specifically, basketball like we do. It's pretty amazing, right? And there are conversations like this in moments where you're like, I should have the kind of perspective that you have. Thank you. Yeah.

You know, sport is a privilege. I mean, it's, you know, at the end of the day, no matter how stressful we get, no matter what type of problems you have, I've always reflected back on the fact that it's basketball, man. I mean, it's basketball. Yeah, but how does that, how does that, how does that, how'd that work at home, right?

You're an incredible family man. And, and look, I look, UCLA as much as there was a lot discussed about your guy's future, it's not, sports radio is not as big, it's not like a small town where that's all anybody talks about. But I'm sure it affects you at, like, how did you handle that as a husband, as a father, when people are talking about your job status? Well, I learned a long time ago to compartmentalize my life. life, Doug. So when I came home and I drove on National Boulevard and I went under the 405 and was headed west to my house,

all of my job stress went away with me. Period. That's what it was at UCLA. When I got up in the morning and got back on National to get over to Pico, when I drove underneath the 405, and it hit me again. And sometimes my job was still over into my house, but most times I tried not to let it bother any aspect of my family life. Because I knew that just as my job needed the very best of Duane Broussard, my family also needed the very best. And so that was how I've managed it that way ever since I started coaching, every since I started coaching.

and much like yourself, you grew up in a basketball family and a basketball in your life. Remember, so when I was in the third grade, I was in the NBA, I was a ball boy for the rocket. So I saw all of that.

I did basketball all of my life too. And so you just kind of have to learn those things. And, you know, I'm not saying everybody does it the way I do. I'm not, and I'm not suggesting that. But for me,

I learned how to compartmentalize. That's what I learned. Yes, it's a great trait to have. Duane, have a great night. Thanks so much for joining us in the All Ball podcast. I'm looking forward to seeing the Hornfrogs. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you, Doug. Thank you for the opportunity, man. Okay. Good luck. Bye-bye. Perfect, Dwayne. Thanks again. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Easter, noon Pacific.

All right, thanks to Dwayne, Broussard. That was, I mean, just his life so far has been interesting. Can't wait to see what he does next. Obviously, you got a huge weekend in college hoop. these conferences are I mean like look I was talking with a WCC coach right and obviously Gonzaga

is going to run rough shot over the bottom of that league but the rest of the teams at the top St. Mary's BYU you throw Pacific San Francisco Santa Clara who San Francisco just beat like there's obviously three or so legit

NCAA tournament teams and and maybe four maybe four you know Oregon with the big win over Arizona Payton Pritcher continues to make big shots and big plays. And I think Dana Altman, his teams almost always get better. Arizona does appear to be an NCAA tournament team.

Arizona State with a big win over Oregon State. We'll see what they do against Oregon this upcoming weekend. Washington's falling on a little bit of hard times with, you know, losing your point guard to academics. Kind of a weird time of year. Obviously, the quarter system could allow them to get them back. but, you know, I don't want to say, like with Stanford coming from behind and beating them, it does feel like Stanford can be an NCAA tournament team.

Washington can be an NCAA tournament team. And then you go with Arizona, USC. So that league's not terrible. The demise of West Coast hoops has been kind of greatly exaggerated. Obviously, the Mountain West hit San Diego State's league to win or to lose. And New Mexico, who I'll see in person this weekend, you know, have suspensions of two starters, JJ Colwell and Carlton Bragg, those guys, you brag being back, but maybe the damage is done. So the Mountain West, I thought was at least a two-bid league.

You know, if New Mexico, maybe three of New Mexico, but Utah State just has not played well. Losing the UNLV, then obviously at home to San Diego State, adding NEMA-Keda has not made them better. I think ultimately, obviously, it will. Anyway, fired up for this weekend in college, hoop. I'll give you my thoughts maybe next week on the Kevin Durant thing. Just real quick on the Kevin Durant versus Kendrick Perkins deal is this. I don't think KD.

needed to go there. Like, Kevin Durant can in fact be a punching bag. But like, what are we doing here where we're allowing a former teammate? And I like Kendrick Perkins. I don't dislike him. If somebody says you made the weakest move

in the history of the NBA, switching from Oklahoma City to the Golden State Warriors, winning two championships in three years, two finals MVPs versus LeBron James. Look, you're entitled to your opinion, but you've got to take some pushback there. Like that would be like me, you know, saying somebody made the weakest move

in the history of college basketball, you know, switching from one school to another as a coach, and somebody coming after me about my free throw shooting or wearing my shorts backwards. Like, yeah, that happens. It's not that big a deal. People get super mad. Like, if you're going to talk, talk shit, then you got to know the other guy is going

to talk. It doesn't, talking shit doesn't work to where, like, I talk shit and you go, like, that's a good one. Good burn, dude. So I think a little bit of this is two guys talking shit and Twitter getting caught in the middle of it. I think a little bit of it is Kendra Perkins has now entered. I'm on team LeBron, not team KD.

And it's Kevin Rampey and overly sensitive. But I'm not sure I don't, I would disagree with, with Kevin. Kevin Durant being sensitive. You know, like, he was the best player on Earth for the last three years. Now he's hurt. People seem to have forgotten. And all there's, they won't forget is that he left Oklahoma City, who somehow was up three to one on the Golden State Warriors.

I would disagree with Agent Zero on Oklahoma City regressing. They added Victor Oladipo. It would have been Russell Westbro, Kevin Durant, Victor Oladipo. And while they may not have had the shooting, I think they would have been better. All right. More on that upcoming in future episodes. time, thanks for listening, both to Doug Gottlieb show daily 3 to 6 Eastern, 12 to 3 Pacific, and of course, to this podcast, which is all ball.

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Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you

the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlic. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, A ref.

My mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Brett. My mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at?

Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the best. biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments.

If we didn't talk ever again, I was hungry. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in to you, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.