The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - 'The Scheme' Review; Hoops Budgets Hits; Loyola Marymount HC Stan Johnson on Escaping War Torn Liberia, Culture Building

Episode Date: April 3, 2020

In this episode, Doug gives his review of 'The Scheme' HBO documentary detailing Christian Dawkins and the FBI pay for play investigation, why he doesn't understand people who see Dawkins as a hero, and how college hoops budgets will take a hit from the pandemic shutdown. This week's guest is Loyola Marymount Head Coach Stan Johnson who discusses escaping war torn Liberia to Utah as a kid, starring at Southern Utah, getting his first head coaching gig and how he plans to re-awaken a dormant Loyola program. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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That's 1-800flowers.com slash tune-in. Hey, what I'm welcome in. Doug Gottlieb here, and you have downloaded All Ball, the All-Basketball podcast. And I'll give you a couple of quick thoughts on the skiing. actually they're going to be really quick thoughts. Look, if you're a basketball guy, you know there's been these runners, hangers, honors, guys looking to make some cash off some kids for a long time. It's always been gross to me.

It just is. It's always been gross to me. Like we can have a legit conversation about paying guys, not paying guys. You know, I'm not for it. I don't think that's what it's all about. I think the gift is the payment is the education and kind of, like the keys to the kingdom of future wealth, which is a college degree

and the people you're around. But I think we can all, whether or not you think that universities exponentially benefit from the talents of student athletes, we can have that debate. What I think is not debatable is these guys are gross.

Like this is a fucking clown to me. He just is. Sorry. I know to, I was reading comments on Twitter like how it's like some hero for the NCAA. Like, all right, dude.

Well, the NCAA actually is the schools. It's not some legislative body that rules and we had to figure it out that way. But, you know, you just because if you don't like a rule or that, that's fine. You don't have to like the rule. Like, get together and get a group of people and try and change the rule and change things for the better. But just, you know, I just, I think it's gross not just in giving players money, but, but, to me, what's super gross is like all these guys take money off the top.

Like it's such as, it really is a scheme and it's slimy. If the players are really worth whatever payments that you're arranging, then they should get every penny of it, not their parents, not their friends, and definitely not you. But, you know, that's what guys do. You know, I got a guy for you. Oh, hook me up here. This is not, I don't think that's the blueprint for every basketball player. I don't like the idea everybody's cheating because I've been around it.

And I, do we do some, does some of this exist? Sure. Is it the majority? I don't believe so. More than anything, these hangar on or runner dudes that cling to a kid, the kid has all the talent, you're going to guide them and you're going to get paid along the way. That's just, I don't know, this is gross to me. Like, go get your own shit.

If you can play, go fucking play. If you can become an agent, go get a law degree, get certified as an agent. But being some go-between, I'm going to call guys and hook a guy up and I'll get you this guy, if you give me a little bit off the top, like, that's just gross to me. It just is. So I watch it and it's popularizing and mainstreaming something that that's existed in the basketball world and I've just always kind of found to be gross. And I don't think like let's not associate every guy who's ever brought a player with

them. I don't think that bringing a player with you in order to get a college job or to move from high school to junior college or whatever. I don't, I don't, like, whatever it takes, you know, legally for you to get that opportunity, because that's all you can ask for in life is an opportunity to show you can do something. I'm talking about these guys that they've made a living out of being a runner, out of being a hanger on, I've been a guy who, you know, peels off a couple hundred bucks to a kid. Meanwhile, is getting, you know, paid from several different ends in order to control where that kid goes.

Where a player should go to school, it should be based upon what's best for that kid. For the now, you know, for his personality, for his game, for his future. That's what should be important. And we lose track of it. We just do. This is a weird hiring season, super, super weird, in that there just haven't been a lot of jobs.

And I said this on a radio show. By the way, you can hear the radio show 3 to 60 Eastern, 12 to 3 Pacific every day on Fox Sports Radio app. You can also download the podcast there. That way you can get the best. stuff and more, a little bit more condensed. But I've said this before is that one of the things that we haven't really dug into is how this is going to affect college athletics, specifically college basketball,

which doesn't make a ton of money for the university. And honestly, thankfully for these athletic departments, they're not going to have the winter sport kids around for another year. Not that they didn't want the kids to play, but more scholarships is more cost and more cost in a year which everybody's everybody's books are going to be off. Now, when the NCAA is used to paying out over, you know, $600

million and they're getting $275 from insurance, everybody's going to take a hit. No conference tournaments. You're talking about your athletic department, you know, being off by $10 to $15 to $20 million, and they're going to get less, if not any, no money from the state from the school because

everybody's going to tighten their belt here. So I think that had to happen where you had to rule those kids couldn't come back. If nothing else, the dollars and cents of it didn't make sense. Do you wish guys got a chance to play the NCAA tournament? Sure. Does it reiterate my point that the NCAA tournament is as or more valuable to the players than it is to the schools because they need that promotion to make a name for themselves?

Absolutely. It's still a bummer. It's not cool. And, you know, now we're missing a Final Four. At those Final Fours, you would see guys with resumes. There'd be interviews taking place. You know, in the... in the neighborhood of 75 to 100 jobs,

head coaching jobs seem to be open on a yearly basis. Maybe not that many. Probably in the 50 to 60 variety. Next year will be a year, which you'll see probably a spike. This year you will not. Not a ton of jobs open. But we had Jeff Linder last week.

He got the Wyoming job, came up from northern Colorado. This week we have Stan Johnson who's going to join us. Stan, of course, is a longtime assistant coach, never been a head coach, played at Southern Utah and at Pimidgee State. and we've been friendly over the past decade or so. I can only tell you that the guy can hoop and he's got a young family.

He's going to move from Marquette from Milwaukee out to Los Angeles. Pliadale is where LMU is located. Now, Luella Merrimount used to be the home of the NBA Summer League and they were one of the first to take advantage of transfers. What people forget about Louisville of Merrimount is they remember Hank and Bo.

What they forget is that Hank and Bo were together at USC and I believe when they were at USC they actually won the PAC 10 before they went on probation.

But Bo Kimball Hank Gathers were not the first big transfers to land at Loyola-Marremount. Not even close. It was actually a group before or a year before that team took off or a couple years before, they had Corey Gaines.

Corey Gaines transferred over from UCLA, and the first year that Hank and Bo played, at LMU, they dominated the WCC. That team had Corey Gaines as their point guard. Corey averaged 17 and 9. granted those stats were skewed because of the pace of play. Jeff Friar was the sophomore that year. He's from Cronelmaar High School.

He still works for kids. Great shooter. Mike Yost was one of the old heads from the previous regime. And they had Bo, Kimball, and Hank Gathers. Imagine a team in which Jeff Friar, Corey Gaines, Mike Yose, Bo Kempel, and Hank Gathers. Bo and Hank both average 22 a game. Yost and Gaines average 17 a game. And Friar average 12 a game.

All on one team. And they had Enoch Simmons coming out the bench. Enoch Simmons the year after Corey Gaines finished up, end up averaging, I think, 19 a game. So they had so many dudes who could get buckets. It was really kind of crazy. They had a guy named Mark Armstrong as well who came out the bench, average about 8 and 8.

So they took Corey Gaines from UCLA. They took Bowen and Hank from USC. And let's roll. Let's go play some who, right? And so the idea of transfers into the WCC from the PAC 12 or PAC 10 back then, this is not a new idea. Only now everybody's doing it. And now there's all kinds of movement in college basketball.

It's one of the challenges to high major, low major, mid-major basketball, getting guys to move up, getting guys to move down in terms of levels. Do you get grad transfers? Do you get four-year transfers? You're not going to get a lot of Jukos at LMU. Do you redshirt guys? Do you play the long game? do you do the international thing?

So there's all different sorts of ways to build a program and where you are, when you're in Los Angeles, generally you should recruit all of, if you just recruit all of LA, you can always be out on the road without being on the road still sleeping your own bed. But you have to know who to pick, who to recruit from.

You got to recruit all these guys and then get some on bounce back, but you got to make sure you take the... Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

Sports slice brings you closer to the action. with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit, of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people

scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me. Kear games is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Brett. My mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Conky, his best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 Podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Right, guys. Kind of interesting. Let's catch up with Stan Johnson. He's got all of these challenges, who to take, how to build, how to get Loyola Merrimount back to where they were. Because now you're in the WCC where Gonzaga is a high major. BYU is rolling.

And I think you consider them a high major. They have, though they can't recruit the whole country, the group they can recruit as a fervent band base, and there's plenty of players. I think Mark Pope's a brilliant coach. He's going to be excellent there. St. Mary's has been dominant. You know, they're going to have to remake themselves yet again going forward to next year.

and now you have quality coaches and investment in Pacific with Damon Stonemeyer. He's got a lot of his team back next year. San Francisco, you know, is a program which is, I think, on the rise in Santa Clara. So LMU is trying to kind of crack that code to get back among at least the middle and maybe challenge the elite. They hired Stan Johnson, who's never been a head coach before. Here's my conversation with Stan. And we're live here outside the Perez family home just waiting for. the... And there they go. Almost on time this morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong with a

double-arm kid carry. Looks like Dad has the bags. Daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but Mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed and they're off. Ah, but looks like mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car, and there it goes! Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fam favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size.

Learn more at nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Visit nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too. Because when we disconnect from this

and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. What grows in the forest?

Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too. Because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific,

on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app. He's the new head coach of Loyola Merrimount. This is his first head coaching gig. He's Stan Johnson. He joins us now on the All Ball podcast. Let's go back. Okay. Let's go back.

When you were at Southern Utah, wasn't Monaco your best? Monaco was the best player before you. You got to be a scene. How did your career with Southern Utah go? Yeah, I passed a lot of ball. was a Jeff Monaco. You know, he was a great player.

I mean, I don't know if you remember. We had a team one year. I think we won 25 games. We lost the Troy Bell in New York pretty much at the buzzer against Boston College. And we had two guys that were just incredible. Jeff Monaco and Fred House, who were, you know, great, great players. Probably could have played anywhere in the country, you know, by the time they were seniors. And, you know, I was, you know, the defensive specialists.

the glue guy, the role guy, kind of a leader on the team. My job is to make sure those guys got enough shots in the game. Monaco, his freshman year, I got him dunked on by Desmond Mason pretty nasty. He was chasing me down. He was at the old Gallagher, Iowa. He was just a freshman.

He's like chasing me down, like six foot, probably 160 at the time. He's going to be, you know, Johnny on the spot. I just threw that sucker out the backboard. He turned around, he got a mouthful and Deson Mason nuts. It was pretty, but from that point, obviously his career took off. How'd you end up there?

How'd you end up at Southern Utah? That's a crazy story, Doug. You know, I was actually born Liberia, West Africa. So my mom was an American citizen. A war broke out. Thank God we had dual citizenship. Lost everything. Packed up our bags.

Came to the states with three bags. And we moved to Salt Lake. And as I was growing up, you know, my family would take trips from Salt Lake to like St. George. and on I-15 South, you would always pass Cedar City, and Southern Utah would be on your left. I remember going, there is no way in hell I could ever go to school here and live in this town.

And you know what? You've got to be careful what you say, because as my college or my high school career developed, that ended up being, you know, a great option for me. And the place I felt the most comfortable and, you know, a staff that really recruited me the hardest. so I ended up picking southern Utah. Okay, so why did, when you moved, how old were you when you moved?

I was 10 when the world broke out. So what are your, what are your memories of Liberia? I remember it. I remember it like it was yesterday. I mean, remember everything. You know, we lived in a, my dad was a mining engineer, so, you know, in those countries, in third world countries, you either have or you don't. have. There's no middle class.

We were fortunate to have, and we lived in almost a German community because there was a huge mining company that everybody worked at. So, you know, I can remember everything. I remember being in a place that was so safe, you could literally at the age of eight, eight, walk from

your school to your house, regardless of how far it was. You know, I remember the day that the rebels came in to overtake a country, and they had all of us at gunpoint. entire school, really. And again, by the grace of God, we were let go. And I remember the American government landing a military war plane that could fit tanks in on a mining strip that they had to

create because the airport had been blown up. I remember getting into that plane and, you know, flying to Sierra Leone and then from there to the state. So, I mean, you couldn't even make it off. It was straight out of a movie. Well, and then you end up in... Salt Lake of all places, which I know when you're around a German community, there's plenty of white faces, but to be in Salt Lake, where they're all white faces,

what was that transition? What do you remember about the transition in your early teenage years? Yeah, I mean, completely different. You know, even being in the German community, I mean, there's more black people and African Americans than there are Germans. But, you know, Doug,

you moved to Salt Lake. I remember my first recess, man. First recess. They were playing basketball. ball. And again, I'm probably at that time, you know, Salt Lake has grown a lot since then, but I'm the only brother, probably in the school. You know, me and

my little brother probably. So what do you think they think? This guy can play. I'm the first pick. I didn't know if you were supposed to dribble the ball or kick the ball. And that was the last time I was picked first for the

entire year. I mean, I was the last pick, and when they got to me, the team that had to pick me was pissed off that they had me. So, you know, I made a commitment that summer, like, I'm going to learn this game, and I'm going to get pretty good at it. But the thing that it taught me was, man, what power that ball has that a kid from West Africa could connect with a Caucasian kid from Murray, Utah, and build a great bond. And since then, man, I just fell in love with the game.

But it was because of those moments. So who was your guy that recruited you at Southern? What assistant? His name was Bob Low. and Bobby Lowe was in southern Utah for a long time. He's at St. Pauli, San Jose State. He's now out of the business, but, you know, just a great guy, you know, someone who made me feel like, you know, I was one of his own kids.

And he's actually had a tremendous impact, you know, on my career and, you know, how I see the game. In what way? What about him do you, is similar? Explain because. But he had a knack, you know, Doug, he played. You've been in a lot of rock rooms, man. He had a knock, a knack.

When it was his scout and he was presenting before you went out there, he had a way to raise your level. You know, from wherever you were at, he could raise your level. You know, in a sincere way, he could get you juiced and pumped up and really, really motivated to go out and play. And that's something that I've, you know, I've really taken, you know, the importance of those moments. You know, you're not going to win the game just off sheer adrenaline. At some point, you've got to be more than that.

But I learned the importance of that, you know, in terms of a guy's psyche before a game, how important that is to getting people off to a good start. So that's something I've really taken from him and have tried to build on, you know, my 18 years of doing this. It's interesting. There's a lot of coaches who will say, like, you can't coach effort. I completely disagree. I think that's a huge portion of what you, of which. I mean, like, look, you, you coach with Steve Wojahowski.

And I understand that the guys are either wired to play like Wojo or not, but it feels to me like effort is getting guys to play hard, whether or not you set out that way or not. Like, that was our thing at Oklahoma State was like, hey, we're just going to, we're going to, it might not be pretty, we're going to outplay everybody. You know, we're just going to play hard. But why do coaches, why do coaches do this thing where they go like, well, you can't coach effort? Like, yeah, absolutely can.

Well, I think it's different. You know, I think, you know, if a guy's lazy, you know, in our business, then you should recruit them. You know, that's different. But if even the guy who works hard and the guy who has it, there's still days where you don't feel like it. And on the days your team doesn't feel like it or certain games where they're not given all they're capable of, absolutely you can demand and get that problem. You know, but so I agree with you. You have to coach effort.

You have to get him out of it because sometimes what a guy thinks he's giving, he's got more to give. But like I said, if a kid is lazy and he doesn't understand how to work and he doesn't have that in him, then that's obviously a lot harder to coach and get out of them than a guy who understands how to work, but you just have to hold him to that every single day. I got to know Bill Evans a little bit at Idaho State, right? Before he got fired a couple years ago.

I was in Cancun doing a tournament, and he was doing like the JV tournament at Idaho State, and I watched his team practice and play, and he was super kind to me, tell him what you think of my team, whatever. He coached you at Southern Utah. You guys had really good success. What was he like? Coach Evans was a gentleman. You know, Coach Evans made no excuses.

you know, at Southern Utah, you know, we had a pretty nice arena, especially for a school of that size and where it's at. But he was a guy who could get a lot done with so much less. I mean, think about it, Doug. We went to the tournament, I want to say 2001. The school had never been there, and since then, they haven't been back. I mean, that's the kind of impact he has. He could, whatever you gave him, he could make the best of it.

And that's, you know, that's part of being a really good coach. I mean, he was at Idaho State. Those are really, really, really, really hard jobs for a lot of different reasons. And he was able to, I think, get the best out of both those places. And eventually, sometimes the place just gets you. But he never made an excuse. He was always consistent, the same guy every day. and he treated people the right way.

I mean, it didn't matter if you were the janitor or the president. There was a consistency in terms of who he was as a human being. You know, just really, really impressive. All right, so you get done playing, and then what was your plan? So, you know, I got done playing, and I probably could have, you know, gone over somewhere and made a couple dollars and called myself a probe. But I was realistic. I knew how hard this business is, how hard it is to get in.

I just knew I wanted a coach, and I was fortunate enough. There was a guy who was an assistant coach for us in southern Utah for a year that ended up getting a job at the Middle East State. So I played three years of Southern Utah, and read sort of a year. So I graduated. I had tendonitis bad needs. And, you know, he said to me, hey, let's, you can come up here. and, you know, if you want to finish up your career

and just play here and, you know, maybe you can get into coaching with me. So I went up there, played one year at the Viggi State, and it's the most northern university in the United States. Literally, if you can live in the Midgee, Minnesota, there's nowhere on earth you can't live. You know, 40 below winters, I mean, the late freezes over, all that stuff. So I played for him for one year.

He offered me a job. I mean, I remember being in Minnesota, we had four-and-a-half scholarships. He's paying me. you know, $10,000 a year and I'm living in his basement. And that's how my career got started. And it's been... Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves.

Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 and the TikTok podcast. network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing,

growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search learn the hard way and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff,

like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, A, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office, Blue, 42. A rep, my mama want you to wave at her.

What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself.

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podcast. Such a rewarding thing, you know, to go from living in a guy's basement, I remember my dad saying, you've got a college degree, dude, what are you doing? What are you doing? But that, that beginning to go into a place like Marquette and then having a chance to get this job, there's so much I've taken from that, so much I've learned, so much, it just makes you so appreciative of every opportunity you get. So Jeff, how do you say his last name, the coach at Midgee? G-U-I-O-T, you play to Kansas for Larry Brown. Okay, so Jeff Giot, what was he like as a coach?

Because I always think, and you can tell me I'm wrong. It's interesting. You said that, you know, the assistant coach recruited you at Southern Utah, kind of shaped you in terms of always getting guys energy. I played for my first, obviously for my dad, and then my freshman coach, my freshman year's a guy named Tom McCluskey. He played at Penn State for Dick Harder. He was, he had some unbelievable drills.

You know, Dick Carter, obviously a fanatic. Some of the stuff I take from him. Then my high school, my, the JV coach became the high school coach, and now he's a junior college coach, Annie Ground. And Annie Ground was great at underneath, out of bounds, and some special plays. even at a high school, like we ran really good, simple stuff that all worked. But it began, it kind of fostered a passion in me in offensive basketball and in screening and angles and how and why things work and spacing or whatever.

What's your takeaway from Giot in terms of coaching that you like that you remember? That's awesome. Great question. You know, the thing I got for him, Doug, was he, Before you can demand from your guys, they have to know that you love who they are. Not just the jersey. Not just because on a given night they had 20 points, so I like you this night. You have to pour into them. And if you pour into them and those kids believe that you sincerely love them, you're going to build a trust that regardless of what you do,

offensively or defensively, there's going to be greater buy-ins. And that's the thing I got from him. Like, you have to pour into people. You've got to pour into their life. You've got to pour into their soul. It can't just be transactional. You know, as a coach, you're here to transform. And sometimes you're going to tell them stuff that they don't want to hear.

Sometimes you're going to be, you're going to have to be very difficult on them, but sometimes you're going to have to put your arm around them and love them. And that may sound Mickey Mouse or whatever, but that really is the staple now of who I am and what I believe. And what I believe it takes, especially in this day and it, to connect with a kid and to create buy-in. So all those things that we're talking about in terms of basketball,

underground underneath, you know, defense, offensive philosophy, those things work better when kids know you care. And that's really what I took from them. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them.

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They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see children. They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure. And they see you. Their fearless guide is this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not enough people know about and we're here to change that. I'm April Dinwiddie host of the new podcast, Navigating Adoption, presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Each episode brings you compelling real-life adoption stories told by the families that live them with commentary from experts. Visit Adoptuskids.org slash podcast or subscribe to

navigating adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Administration for Children and Families and the Ad Council. Yeah, that's a great one. You know, it's one of things, you know, Eddie Sutton used to do where he, every day you come in and you make eye contact with, because we had a sign-in sheet, you had to go and make eye contact with a coach. And we used to think the expression we used was, man,

if you fart on campus, they smelled in the office. But they knew who your girlfriend was, right? They knew your parents, all your situations, whatever, and it was their way of being invested, you know,

invested in your career. All right. From there, you go to Southwest Baptist, which is in, what, Boulevard, Missouri. Okay,

was that any... And I went with the same coach. Okay, so he goes, so he goes, what, to get closer to home? but is that Bumigi was D2 at the time? D2.

So we went D2 to D2. Why do we go? Because at Bimji State, we played the league with 10 scholarships. We have four and a half scholarships in that league. We win the league. And Southwest Baptist comes calling for him. It's a little better job. It's closer to his home.

He's from Kansas. And we go there to take over that program. So that's why we went there. All right. What is it like to, now you now you've got to start up a a program in Missouri that's D2 that you have no connections with, right? Midge Midgee, at least you had played there, a little bit warmer. What was that like?

Unbelievable. I mean, we go there and we take over a program, they're going to build this new arena. You know, they've got all these things kind of going. We finally have 10 scholarships. But now you're in the best league in Division II basketball. I mean, it's unbelievable. It's, you know, the guys that are in that league could play in a lot of places. throughout the country.

Most of them are there because they don't have the grades. Well, we signed a kid. I don't even know you'll remember this name. A kid by the name is Sheldon Pace. He played with Kurt Snyder at Upland, High School. And back then, you know, Sheldon was actually the best player on the team. He didn't have grades, had to go Juko.

Didn't even have grades in Juko. We had to help get ineligible just to be a D-2 player. So we signed his kid, Sheldon Pace, who I'm telling you, had he been in Marquette or Loyola Maramount, he probably has a chance to be a legitimate NBA player. His last year with us, where we finished, so we took the job in the second year with Sheldon in his second year, we finished fifth in the country. He finished his second to Dee Brown in Illinois for the Bob Cooze Award, you know, from Southwest Baptist. again, it was a constant, it was a reminder for me again, like, you know what, there's great players everywhere.

And if you're good, great things can happen for you. So that experience and going to South West Bopsies and two years flipping that program from being nowhere to being the fifth-rated, you know, fifth-ranked team in the country, you know, that was one of my best, you know, moments and experiences, you know, in basketball so far. How'd you get to Northridge from there? So after my first year at Southwest Baptist, I'm on the road. And I think it was in Indianapolis. And I run into Bobby Braswell and we're talking. I didn't know him. We didn't know me, but we kind of bumped each other and we're talking.

And we get off the road. And right before school starts, he calls and he has an opening on his staff. I think right now it's almost close to August, early August. and he called me and he said, Stan, you know, I sat with you, we really don't know each other, I have an opening, I'd love for you to come to Northridge. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, you know, it's a dream. I want to go to Division I mean, I've been the D2 coach.

I've only been coaching for four years. I can go to Northridge. And then something says to me, you can't leave here. You can't leave. You just got here. It's late. It's so late in the year. This guy's giving you a job.

If this was earlier, you can leave. So I tell Brad, I said, Brad, or brass. I love to come, but I can't this year. I wouldn't do this to you. Schools getting ready to start here. I can't leave him high and dry. So fast forward a year, he called me back and says, listen, I love how you handle that. I have another opening. I'd love for you to come. And at that point, the time was right, and I went to Northridge. Yeah, you guys had a great year when you're there, right? So we, yeah, I get the job. It's, um, Early May, and we have to sign seven guys from that period to when school starts,

seven players. We signed seven guys, and we went on to win the Big West, first time in the history of the school. And then the next year, I actually went to Utah, and that team, you know, they played Memphis really close in the first round of NCAA tournament. Okay, and what was Bobby Braswell like as a coach? Tremendous. So, like, you're asking where I got from each guy.

Bobby Braswell was the most organized human being I've ever seen in my life. Literally, I always tell him even to this day, so I've never met a guy who majors in the minors more. To the point, like, I would come into his office, and, you know, Bras was very meticulous. He was on top of everything. Doug, you bring the scouting report. It's neatly done, and, you know, he would look over it,

and he would, you know, sort of like Doug Gottlief, 26 points a game, five rebounds, eight assists. So he'll pass by that and goes, hey, Johnson, Johnson,

you missed the comma. I'm like, missed the comma. Did you see that Doug Jackson's 26 and eight? You know, you're worried about the comma, but he was show into the little things. You know,

when pregame meal comes out, the exact minute, where the buses park, his whole deal was, we can win 40 to 50% of our games just on being organized. and that has stuck with me, you know, how organized you have to be

in order to get the best out of your team, your program, your organization. And I'm so thankful for that stop because that's why Brad's are so good at Northridge. You know, Northridge, you don't have a whole lot. But his organization was why he was able to be, I mean, for the longest time, the longest tenure back to the American coach in America.

but the organizational piece is what I stole from brass. Okay, so then you go with Jim Boylan at Utah. Now, Boylan, obviously. Okay, first, how did you get the job? I've got jobs, you know, again, it's funny, man. When you, it's amazing sometimes when you just work and you put your head down, good things can happen. That's kind of always been my philosophy.

But I've learned that you have to network a little more, and I've learned that a little later in my career. but so I'm at Cal State Comigis Hills and if you remember they used to have all those big All the tournaments were there Right So I'm working in Northridge that summer

I'm walking in the door As Jim's coming in Jim just got the job So I've got on Northridge stuff on And I shake this hand We're coming at the same time And I say hey man I'm from Salt Lake Congratulations

You're going to love that place You've got a great program You're inheriting The people are awesome They love basketball Really, that's the gist of our conversation. I go down and sit, and we don't talk again. Well, fast forward a year.

My phone rings, and it's boiling. And he's already done some background check on me, and he said, Stan, you know, I have a, you know, Marty Wilson is left. He's gone to Pepperdine. I'd like to talk to you about this job. And I want you to know, like, a year ago, I could tell you exactly what you were wearing and what you were doing. He said, you had khaki pants on, you had a white shirt tucked in, I watched you sit during that entire event by yourself. You took notes.

You weren't really talking to anybody. I was evaluating you, and I didn't know you. And that really stuck with me. And I've done some research on you now, and this is where we're at. So let me just think about that. And I tell our guys all the time now, you know, wherever I've been, you never, you are always being evaluated. You know, you don't know who's watching and who's looking.

And I've lived that. I mean, for a guy to, for a year later, to tell me the color slacks and the type of shoes I had on in the polo and to tell me what I was doing at this event, that really stuck with me. And, I mean, that's how I got that job. What was boiling? Like, there's a lot too boiling. I like Jim. I interacted some. I did some of the games.

I mean, I do know that he, I was told he wore some dudes out with the, like, who had to collect the cell phones on the road? He was one of the first to collect the cell phones on the road, won't he? Yeah, one of us did. I can't remember who did. But, you know, Jim is one of my best friends in the business. I mean, we are tight. You know, there's been so many times even as head coach of the Bulls, he'll come down here before the season,

and, you know, we'll sit with our staff and talk defense. I mean, he's a giver that way. I tell people all the time, like, you see him on the sideline, especially in college, and he's the most caring human being. I've ever been around. The guy would literally take off his shirt for you. But you don't really get to, you wouldn't know that unless you get to really know him. Sure.

But really, really intense. And his intensity comes from his love of the game and his love for his players. I mean, but he was an intense guy. And the thing I love most about Jim, you know, he taught me about game prep. You know, he has a football mindset, how you prep for a game, you know, your offensive package, how you implement a defensive system. I mean, it was next level. I mean, our defense, you know, when I was there was off the charts.

His terminology, you know, everybody's speaking the same language. You know, his basketball IQ is as good as anybody I've been around. And, yeah, you know, Jim, I mean, you had to be tough to play there. And you have to be tough to play for him because that's really who he is. You know, it's interesting. I did that year. His third year, I think you're still there, his third year, you guys weren't very good, played out in Hawaii. Yeah, we struggled.

Yeah, you struggled. But your first game was against Butler. Now, this was Butler the year after they went to the National Championship. Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what. what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go

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I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42.

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They couldn't score. And he was like one of the first ones that says like, what do you think of Butler? And I was like, Jim. I think they're like crazy physical. He's like, listen to me. That's the most physical fucking team on earth. He goes, they look like choir boys and they hit you like sailors. He's like, you don't let, don't let the clean cut.

Like, you wait, they're going to kick our ass tomorrow. I remember he's telling me, you had those quick practices and meetings, whatever. They're going to kick our, our kids are not ready for Butler or whatever. And sure enough, and then I think you guys got your ass kicked by him. He walks by the table, was like, told you. And he goes, that's one of the toughest team. teams I've, you know, most physically tough teams I've ever seen. And he goes, you, you watch, I bet they go to, you said something to flippant,

like at the hotel, like, bet they go to another Final Four. They go to the championship game. Go to championship game. Yeah. No. He, he's, he's an interest. He's, if there was one thing that could have helped him, could it, could have saved him, you go, like, we would have done this.

It would have ended up better. Because it started out hot as can be, right? he replaces Jackaletti and he's doing great 24 games rolling um if you could have if you could could have did if is there a butterfly effect moment where if we would have done this this this this might not have happened what would it be yeah you know what i think you know the thing i i've learned from that experience to be honest with you guys i mean there's so many things you can do better and as much as much as that sucked especially it sucked for me because that's home man like that's home There's nothing worse than getting fired in your hometown.

And that really scarred me for a long time. It scarred Jim. You know, we poured a lot into that place. Yeah. You know, we could have done a lot of things better. But the one thing that I would say that we should have and could have if we could hit rewind is we should have found a way to stay old. You know, like we were rolling.

The year we won the league, I think it was the, in that time, that we went West. That was the highest seed in the history of the Mount West Conference. Right. That was back.

We had, I had my brother on a couple weeks ago, maybe radio, I'm not sure it was, I think it was no his pod. And he was telling me about like, people forget,

you go back to 2009, 2010, Mountain West never got good seats, no matter how good league was. Monster League. I mean, pros after pros, great coaching.

But what we did is we try, I mean, we lost our top seven guys. guys off that team. And we went young. You know, we went really young, and we were going to try to build back up. So, like, when you saw us, we were a young team. You know, if I could have gone back, we would have found ways to stay old

and have some older guys waiting that could step in and play. And we didn't really have that. I do think had we survived, you know, one more year, the year that let him go, if we had one more year, we had a good. team coming back. And we were going to have a chance to do it. But in this day and age, man, you have to find ways, especially

at a place like that where the expectations are so high, you've got to find ways to stay old. And we could have done that a heck a lot better. And, you know, I take that personal. You know, as an assistant coach for him, because Jen's fantastic.

And he's a terrific basketball coach. You know, again, if anybody who's worth their salt and worth their weight, I think you look inward and say, you know what, what could I have done better? And that's the advice I would have given and not certain something I would have done. We didn't. I know.

And you think, and I think what coaches think, and you tell me from mom, but coaches think that if they tell the world, hey, we're super young, that everybody will understand, you can't win with young players. But they just don't. They're like, well, they're super young, but they, but, you know, and it's like, and in that league especially, any league now, but really in that league especially, because, Because I would say the Mountain West, back then, it was transfer central, right? I mean, like even JJ O'Brien, who you guys had was a freshman.

He transfers, he goes to San Diego State. It was a transfers haven. So if you're playing with true freshmen, true sophomores, other teams have fourth, fifth, sometimes, you know, six-year dudes. You know, you're playing against legit men. They're just better. They're older. They're bigger. They're better.

They're more experience. And it's really, really hard. If I could be you. And you could be me for just one hour. If you could find a way to get inside. Each other's mind. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes.

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Jay Joe O'Brien. Jay Joe O'Brien was a monster. That's what I'm saying. Like, we had him one more year. We had Will Clyburn. I don't know if you, on that. We'll have left and he went to Iowa State. He was the best player.

Yeah, junior college, I think Junior College All-American, right? Yeah, we were just, we were just, we were young playing against men. And we didn't have time. Okay, so that's on us. And I own that. We could have done a better job for him that way. So you get fired. You're in your hometown.

What happens? Doug, we get fired, and I'm just. you know, I just explained to you how my career was going, right? I mean, it's like, you go here and win, you go here and win, and you get this false, it's like a false crests, you know, you think you're at the peak, you know what? And I started getting this thing, oh, man, you know what, look, I mean, good things just happen. I'm never going to get fired. I mean, we're good.

We just win. Wherever I go, we win. It's like, get ready to humble yourself, bro. Not only you're going to get fired, you're going to get fired in your hometown. And then you realize it was my first wake-up call to the business. Like the minute you get fired, it's like you have some sort of disease that people will catch if they talk to you or come next to you. And you realize very quickly who's with you. And I'm amazed during that experience, guys, I never even really talked to.

And, you know, at that point, I think that's when the relationship with your brother and I started to grow. Like, I knew him, but didn't – like, you start – all of a sudden, guys start reaching out and looking out for you. And so that was interesting. But I interviewed for, like, five or six jobs. I'm not kidding you. And I missed out on four of them, like, literally to the head coach's best friend. Or at least that's what I was told. Every time I got the call saying no.

So I get – I don't know how many knows. And I'm on my last leg, man. I've got a young kid. I think we had, actually, yeah, we had two kids at that time. One was a little baby. They were both babies. Insurance is getting to run out. I hear that Drake has an opening,

and somebody gets me kind of lined up with Mark Phelps. So I call Phelps, and we're talking, and Phelps says, hey, Stan, listen, man, I'd like to bring you in, but I don't know if I can. I have another guy I'm bringing in for an interview. you, I think I'm set with him. I'm only going to bring in one. And I'm getting ready to put down that phone that something said, do not let this dude off the phone.

This is it for you. And I just said to him, I said, Mark, listen, man, if you bring me in, it'll be the best thing you've done in your entire life. I'm just asking you for a chance. It was literally that. And he said, I don't know, man. Maybe I'll call you back. Like two hours later he called me back.

he said that really hit me. I want to bring you in. I went and interviewed with him and got the job. But I don't know where I would have been had that not happened. You know, you can get out of this business really quick. So that was my next step from Utah to Drake. It's interesting. I had just had a, I just texted a buddy of mine who is

on staff with a major, a big school, and they just lost a coach. And I said, who's he bringing in? He's like, I don't know. I said, is he going to move you up. He's like, I don't know. What you've asked? Now we haven't really talked about that. And I was like, can I give you some advice?

It's like, sure. My advice is walking to his up fucking office and tell him, hey man, I want the job. I know how do you work. I know what you want. I can do it. Just do it. I don't know if he's going to do it, but it's like you know, it's one of those things. Look, I've gotten myself, there was one of the three places I worked where they didn't dig that.

But generally, you know, like sometimes you don't have to walk, take the horse to water to make him drink. You actually have to open their mouth, pour the water in, close their mouth, and make them swallow sometimes. And they go, wow, that water is pretty good. Okay, so you go and you're at Drake, the Bulldogs, Des Moines, Iowa. Mark Phelps is the coach. What was he like?

Mark was great. You know, Mark was great. Mark, you know, I got there. I think Mark had already been there three or four years, if I'm not mistaken. So he'd already had a lot of time. And that's the other thing sometimes, you know, when you're at a place like Utah and you lose a job, especially when you're a young guy and you're stuck,

you don't always go up. So sometimes you're going to go lateral, maybe I can take a step back, or you get back into a situation where it's not maybe the greatest. And so I'm going to Drake. Mark has already been there. Mark's done a good job there. In my first year there,

I think outside of that team that went to the tournament, we set the win mark. I mean, I think he was like he won the most games of any coach at Drake. So we did some great things. I was there two years. And, you know, for Drake, we did some great things. But at the end of that, you know, two years, all of a sudden now, he's there five or six years. And you know how that goes.

And the AD wants to make a change. Right. So she made a change there. And I actually interviewed with her for the job, which was weird enough. And they ended up hiring Ray Jackaletti. And she and Ray asked her. We just straight. straight enough who you were part of the staff that replaced him at Utah, right?

Like it's all, now we're getting the Venn diagram with the circles. Isn't it crazy? Yeah. I saw you guys. By the way, I think it was your last year. You guys played, Greg was at Cal. I had just moved back out to the West Coast. You played him in the Anaheim Convention Center.

And Brett Nelson was on that staff too, wasn't he? Right? Brett was with us. Yeah. And we had a nice team. really nice team and a great team coming back. And again, they made the switch. And, you know, it's funny.

And so Ray gets in, Ray's like, hey, Stan, you know, the one thing I always appreciated about you was, you were so gracious with me after you guys replaced us. You know, I would tell Ray all the time, hey, Ray, you left us some great guys. You know, this thing was on solid ground. And we had a great starting, we had some great starting blocks. But isn't that amazing?

So, fast forward how many years now he's the coach, And maybe because of those conversations, he's, hey, will you stay with me? You know, so I told Ray I would, but, you know, if something came along, you know, I would have to entertain that. And certainly, like, a week later, you know, Herb called me and asked me to go to Arizona State. You guys get fired at Drake, right? Here you are. You're the kiss of death, right? Two straight jobs, two straight.

I'm kidding. Yeah, it is. How did you end up at Arizona State? So actually, like I said, I knew Ray, Ray and I, the AD wants me to stay at Drake, so I agree to stay. I'm probably with him for a week or so,

and my phone rings. I'll never get it this Saturday. And I'm in our facility there, Drake, and a Cove Cindek on the other line. And he just had lost Diedrich to Fullerton. And he's like, hey, Stan, I've got this, opening, I would love for you to come out here and, you know, just busy with me.

You know, I love for you to be a part of my staff and I'm like, coach, I just told these guys I were going to stay. And, you know, so the more I thought about it, I'm like, you know what, you owe yourself this opportunity. So I went to Phoenix, which I knew was a trap because if I went there, it was over. I went there and sat with him

and went on a tour of the place and, you know, I end up taking a job. So now I'm with Herb at Arizona State. Okay, now Herb Sendek is, it's weird. Like, he's such a brilliant guy and brilliant coach. And in spite of his success at NC State, he was... Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

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storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Never kind of their guy, right? He had success at Miami of Ohio before that. He's obviously now building something, but at Santa Clara, you'll have to compete against him. Yep. He's, you know, Carnegie Mellon, you know, like super bright, super genius dude. And I believe, like, Rick Petino almost, like, idolizes him. Like, Rick Petino, who used to be on his staff, thinks he's just a brilliant.

But their styles are so very different. What was, what's Sendik like? He's outstanding, Doug. I mean, first of all, he is a complete gentleman. You know, I mean, I've not been around a better person. You know, when you talk about somebody with a pure heart, somebody who's in it for all the right reasons, that's Herb. And you match that with just ultra-intelligence.

I mean, crazy intelligence, you know, freaky. To the point, you know, Doug Collins and I got really close. And Doug would come over all the time because he has a home in Phoenix. and Doug would come in my office and he'd be like, Stan, you've got to get Herb. I would go in there, we'd go in there, and be like, okay, coach, you got to, you know, the zone offense. I know you think like that, but let's really simplify that. He'd be like, okay, okay. He'd come back, and it'd be the most complex thing you've ever seen, and in his mind it was so simple.

But he's just so bright, so intelligent. He taught me really what it was like to be a CEO. how you run a program, how to be efficient with your time, you know, how to not only coach basketball, but all the other parts of the program that are needed to be addressed in order to achieve great success, whether that's, you know, in the community, organizing a plan for that,

with your deans and your boosiers, organizing a plan for that, how you control your messaging. he was his next level with that stuff. But Herb did it in a way where you always felt like you were working with him and not for him. Who is the get that you're most prideful in recruiting in Arizona State? That I'm most prideful in recruiting? Yeah, I saw it. Like, you know, when you talk to coaches, coaches, it's not necessarily the best player.

It's just a guy that you saw that you believed in that you're like, I saw this when nobody else. it. That's an easy one for me. There was a kid, so when I got the job, you know, we had Jahey Karson and Herbert had been there for a while, and we needed to really, we needed to add to him and Jordy Bichenski, our big kid, in order to give ourselves a chance to be a tournament team.

And I remember a buddy of mine from B2 calling me and saying, hey, send him an email to say, hey, there's this kid Shaquille McKizeku up here in, and, um, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in Washington, and you need to, you've got to look at this kid. So he says it in the highlight, the kids is a freak athlete. Well, you know, you do your background check, and, you know, as a high school kid, he had had, you know, an issue. He made a bad choice. But that choice really affected him.

I mean, he couldn't go to his scholarship in a junior college division one school. Chico D1 got taken away. He's got to go to school up in the Northwest. And, you know, those schools, they don't have scholarships. So he's got to get a job. At some point, he's homeless. And I'm like, you know what? Is my first year here?

I don't know if I can bring this to the table. So I ignore it for a week. And someone was his army. I came back to him and I brought it to Herb. And we take it to the AD. And he says, you know what? Let's bring him in and let's see what he's like. And we bring this kid in, Shaquille McKiddick, and he's just a beautiful kid.

A world-class athlete, I mean, to really jump. Has all the, you know, the talent is just a little raw. We add into that mix, and he ends up being, you know, a huge part of our success. But even greater than that, he has a senior year he's that much better. Now he's overseas and one of the big leagues over there making a lot of money. and his whole life was changed because of that. Yeah. And, you know, I'm grateful for that,

that I took the chance, and I came back and gave a guy a chance like that because who knows where he would have been, you know, had somebody not put their neck on the line for him. So that's the one guy there that I'm so prideful and so thankful that we took. I say, so now you're working for a guy and Herb Sendix, you know, between Sean Miller,

Like you go all around the country. Herb Seneca's got guys that have worked for him. So I'm sure now you're thinking head coach, head coach, head coach. How did you get to Marquette? So I'm with Herb, and then again, I'm with Herb. Herb's been there forever. I think, you know, when I was with Herb, I was working for two years. My first year, we get that team back in the tournament.

We finish third in the Pac-12. We come back with one of the youngest teams in the Pac-12 the following year. I think we finished like fifth. we were picked ninth. In December, we heard signs an extension. We get to the NIT and at the end of the year, they decide to make a change.

So, you know, Herb losing his job, the AD there, again, he asked me to stay. He says, hey,

whoever I interviewed for this job, one of the things that we're going to ask for them, they have to keep you. And he was a man of his word. He did that. They actually hired Bobby Hurley. And, you know, so Coach Irley and I were probably together for two or three weeks. But, you know, the Marquette thing came along.

And, you know, my – I just felt like it was going to be the best fit for my family. And we ended up coming to Marquette. And, you know, Marquette has been – you know, I've said it, it's been icing on the cake for my career. I mean, five years have been unbelievable. So is it? The kind of places, places. So,

all right, so Marcus Howard was going to Arizona State. Then he goes to Marquette. Yep. Is that all you? Well, yeah. I mean, we had a tremendous relationship.

And Marcus and I, you know, really connected when he, when he obviously committed to us there, and then he just had a belief in me. And he came across the country because of that relationship.

and, you know, I mean, it's amazing to think a guy from Arizona, how talented he was, was able to skip all those schools in between Marquette and Zona to come here. He's a fascinating kid, right, because he's only 17 his freshman year, he's super young, and obviously becomes, you know, the big East all-time scoring leader. But I'm just wondering what it's like to coach a guy who is, so tied to you, right? Like you got Wojo and, you know, Wojo is, he's cut from the same

cloth, not just of his parents, he's tough dude, but of Coach K. But when you have a guy that you're that tied to as assistant coach, did he allow you to coach him? Right? Because you're, like in his corner, you're his guy, but he's got a player like that has to allow themselves

to be coached by everybody, even the guy he's closest to. Did Marcus allow that? Yeah, absolutely. And, you know what? I mean, with Marcus, I probably, you know, I usually coach the bigs. So even in his time here, Marcus and I, in terms of, you know, that type of relationship on the court, you know, the other guys touched him and were with them. And that was, I felt like that was better that way because that allowed other people to get closer to him. You know, I'm really not a guy.

I don't believe in my recruit. You know, we have the relationship. but I want everybody to have the same kind of relationship. And I think Marcus would tell you, even though, yeah, you know, we're close. You know, he shares a very strong relationship with the rest of our staff. And he allowed other people to really coach him like he needed to be coach. All right. You've always hooped wherever you've gone, still hoopsdale, stayed in shape.

Yes, sir. Early on at Marquette, you guys had just really, really, a ridiculous hooping staff, right? Oh, my gosh. Doug. I'm talking about some battles, man. Chris Carrowell, Steve Wojahowski,

Justin Ganey at NC State, Travis Deener. I mean, I'm missing, I'm missing guys. Brett Nelson? Brett Nelson? I mean,

Brett Nelson. We had so many dudes that could play. I mean, we played every day for a long time. He played every day to 100. Every day to 100. And I'm not talking about your casual nice pickup. Every day to 100, you don't have to end down the ball.

So if the ball goes through the net, you just take it out and you go. And I'm talking about when that thing got to the fourth quarter and it was, you know, 90 to 82, those games ended up putting another 30 minutes on it because of the fouls and the physicality. I mean, you come home and people, your families be like, dude, are you coaching basketball or are you playing? Why are you limping?

Why are you looking like this? But we, we had some heated, heated battles. Okay, so when Wojo, did he carry over those negative feelings into work, right? That's the one thing is like, you start playing pickup ball with dudes you work with. And you play with the same guys,

you're on opposite teams, and you got really competitive, good dudes, did Wojo ever like have a bad day, catch a bow, not make a shot, get beat, argue with a call, and then you guys go to practice and he's in a shitty mood? No,

we never took that. I'll give everybody that. I mean, we had some crazy, competitive in-your-face games, but once we walked out of that door, it was over. And everybody did a really, really good job of understanding that. And

was terrific that way. There was no hard feelings. Now, when we came back the next day, we may bring that back in, but that never went into our daily life and barely work or anything like that. What separates Wojo as a coach? You know, the greatest compliment I can give him is, you know, he brings it every day as a coach and in practice. Like I've not been around a guy whose energy from the beginning of practice

in terms of when the year starts to the end, literally if you walked in and you hadn't been to our practice and you didn't know what time of year it was, you would have no idea. You would think it's the first day of practice. He was terrific that way, and that's really hard to do. They had that level of energy and passion every single day

was ultra-impressive. You know, he brought it every single day in practice. just an impressive impressive feat. Did you guys, I guess my only question, last year you lost six of your last seven. I saw you guys. I thought you were a tremendous team,

the Hauser boys. You know, I liked, you know, Theo John's development as well. You know, everybody only talks about Marcus, but it was a, this year's team was surprisingly good. And then, again, losing six out of seven, did you leave too much on the practice floor?

This year I think you probably overachieve most of the year. and then people kind of started to figure you out a little bit. But why do you think end of the year struggles outside of the fact it's a good league, well, coached league? Everybody's playing that league, but he struggled league. Yeah, two different years. Yeah, we'll start backwards. You know, I think this year, I mean, we got to a point where we were really rolling.

I think we got the, let's say, like 18th, 19th in the country, and we went to Villanova, got beat by one, and then came home, and Creighton, you know, was just on a roll. and got us. And we got into a point this year where we really, you know, we had, we were struggling to score, you know, in some regards. And then our defense, you know, those last few games were not as good.

I mean, you look at those games sometimes. They're just literally the one-possession games. I mean, we lose a one-point game at home to DePaul. Oh, no, DePaul's on the road. Well, yeah, no, we lose to Providence. at home on a, you know, it goes in overtime, you lose a one-point game there. You lose

a one-point game at Villanova. So, you know, we had, I think our problem this year down the stretch was finding a consistent second and third guy to really help Marcus. You know, so we really,

we struggled, you know, that way. I felt like the year before, you know, after we lost at Villanova and such a we had a chance to win the regular season title at Villanova last year. And, you know, it was the first time in a long time Marquette had been back in that situation. It was the first time our guys had been in that situation. And we didn't handle it well.

You know, we took that loss. Again, I think it was a one-possession game, and we really let that affect us, you know, the next couple games. And this league's good. You do that, and all of a sudden now you're second-guessing yourself. You know, we play at home again the last night, last day of the season against Georgetown because Villanova had gotten beat, and we have a chance to beat Georgetown at home to have a share of the league title and give Patrick Ewing and their team all the credit done.

They played so good. I mean, Kenjo and, I mean, their backcourt, McClung. They made everything. I mean, we went back and you watched the film. I mean, they made every single shot. shots. We just got on the, you know, on the raw end of the deal. But I don't know if I attribute that to practice. I think, you know, World Joe has gotten so much better, you know, shortening practice and being sharp and being crisp. I think, you know, two years ago it was a team that hadn't

been there and got a little tight. I think this year it was a team when people start to figure you're out and they start to take away your second and third guy, you know, not having, you know, enough consistency that way to finish out close games like that. Fair enough. Okay.

So you guys, this thing ends in strange fashion, right? Like you're in New York and ready for the big East tournament. And all of a sudden it's over. So Marcus Howard's career is over weird fashion. Take me through the process, which,

you know, I think a lot of people thought the L. new job might come open. It took a couple extra days. They did lose really three of the three starters didn't play all year. So some people thought that that Craig, their AD would maybe retain him for a year. He decides not to take me through the process from your perspective that led you to get the job. First of all, there's a lot of things. And you know this. You've been in this as long as anybody. And I tell people this all the time. And I've been in other jobs. Like, there's so much that goes into getting a job, right, Doug? I mean,

there's so many different factors. And when you're a candidate, you don't know. You can't control it. You don't know what alumni, what booster, who's going to shots, what, I mean, what pressure there is on the AD, the president. There's so many moving pieces. So I'm fortunate enough to get it.

But I'm also realistic to know that there are so many guys that could have that job. So many guys who are qualified, so many guys who are really good. So it's a humbling feeling. And I don't take, oh, look at me, I'm that good. No, there's a lot of guys I could have. I'm very fortunate. You know, I talk guys all the time, and I said it to you earlier,

I've learned that in this business, you have to put yourself out there a little bit. I've always been a guy. I'm just going to put my head down and work. I'm going to put my head down and work. Those are the guys I grew up around. That's what I was taught. But the last few years, I've been so fortunate. I've been invited to different consortium.

coaching deals. There's a deal called the next chair, which replaces, you know, what used to be Villa 6th or whatever that was for, you know, whoever they consider to be some of the higher-end assistant coaches or what have you. So I go to this event last summer in Charlotte, and part of the event, they do this deal where you speed date. And, you know, there's three different rows and there's coaches on each row and administrators across you.

Well, you never change your role. You stay in there. but you change seats. You just stay on that. And on my role, it happened to be Craig Pittins. And we had a five-minute conversation. Again, I'm not sitting there, and nobody in the room is sitting there going, oh, the person I'm talking is going to have a job.

You're just going through the exercise. And we did that, and throughout that, you know, the day and a half, I probably had a chance to spend 20 minutes with him total. Not thinking that a year from now, he may have an opening, and, you know, your phone's going to ring and he wants to talk to you about the job, but that's really what happened. So that crazy day when they started to shut everything down and cancel tournament games.

And, you know, I got a call that day from a firm saying, hey, they've got you on a list, and they'd like to talk to you. And that's where it started. When did you find out, when did he tell you you got the job? So I think it was Friday night. And again, you know how this goes. He calls me, and I've gotten calls like that. and, well, you don't get it.

And, you know, I picked up, and, you know, he's, I'm going, oh, man. So we're talking, and he's like, you know, we're down a stretch here. You know, we're helping for you to be our coach. I'm thinking he's trying to let me off. So you're not, I wasn't ready for that moment. But even when you accept it, there's so much that has to go through. Now your agent gets involved with the school lawyer, and they've been working out the contract deal.

So that wasn't done until about two in the morning, Saturday morning. That's kind of when it became official, you know, the next day in terms of the contract. Who's your first call? Well, my dad, my parents. You know. What do you say? See, Dad, you told me I'm wasting my degree at Bermudgy State. Yeah.

Now look at me. I'm in L.A. You know what's funny? You know what's funny? I didn't have to do it then because I've been telling that because my dad, he'll read up on, If I'm at Marquette or Arizona State, it's like all of a sudden now, oh, you're on the train now. He could tell you everybody were recruiting and what people are saying. So he's been invested.

But my dad, you know, like all of us, and you can attest to this, you know, they start to get old. And luckily he's got good health and my parents are healthy, thank God. But, you know, every time, you know, he would come and visit me, he just always say, man, I just pray to God that, you know, I'll be around to see that day. you know, and I actually get emotional thinking about it because, you know what, man, we've been through a lot, and I've been through a lot. And I've watched my dad, you know, lose his entire life, you know, to a war and come here and start at the bottom of his company and retire as a CEO. So to be able to share that moment with him, you know, that your son has, you know, gone from the midgey state to having a chance to lead a program and you can experience. that, you know, it's something I'll never forget, man. It was awesome.

That's pretty amazing. LMU is an interesting job. It's a beautiful campus. I told Craig, I said, look, like, everybody makes this big deal about Pepperdine. Pepperdine's incredible. But Pepperdine, you can't, there's five, $10 million houses around. So you're not really interacting. And there's, you know, it's not like, whereas Playa, like there's a cool little area where, you know, your staff can actually

actually live and walk on to campus or ride a bike to campus. There's places to get something to eat. Like, Malibu's not like, it's just unbelievable bluff. Have you even been to campus, by the way, with this thing? Good question. So, we talked about Loyal-Maramount and how they used to host all these tournaments back in the day. When I was in Utah, we'd go there at E.U tournaments, Gerson, watch games.

Park Broadstreet. I see Gerson. I'm like, does this place we can have a campus? And I would leave, right? So I went there a week ago because we had five guys there. I just wanted to get in front of them, meet with them, talked to him, and I got out. But I went and walked campus for the first time. And I'm going, you have got to be kidding me.

I know. It may be one of the most of, and I'm not saying this for like a recruiting thing right now because I'm on with you. The most impressive, incredible places I've seen. when you get to the bluff and you're sitting on top of L.A. And the beach is to your left and the city's to your right. That's, I mean, it blew me away. No, it's unbelievable. Like, look, that whole league, that whole league, like San Diego,

you can see the water from U.S.D. St. Mary's, it's like out of a summer camp book or whatever. It's a beautiful campus, right? It's got a bunch of put, but literally nobody knows about it. And I think one reason is because there's one of the entrances, is if you're going to the first in, the gym, you come in from Plya, you take a right, you park at the gym, and then you leave,

you don't go through campus. But when you go through campus, like, oh my God, this place is amazing. It's really, really amazing. And then, I don't know if you know this, but down just below the bluff in Pliah, any of the tech companies, YouTube's got a place there,

that's where the Clippers are building their new facility. Like, you're literally, you could take a driver, hit it off the bluff, and hit some of the biggest companies from, you know, eBay to Facebook to YouTube, we got a studio over there. Like, it's actually in a very, very cool,

up-and-coming area, and it's like two minutes from the beach. Like, it's a, and no one knows. And no one, and I think a big, and no one knows because they haven't, haven't been good. Right. Well, that's what we got to do. You know, we've got to get to the point where people know. And that's, you know, that's one of my biggest jobs.

And we've got to do a good job, even before we can get to the double. use of putting things in place where people go from, you know, get curious to interested to committed. And I'm trying to get people curious. And then I want to get them really interested and I want to get them committed. And that's not only just players. That's our community.

That's our alumni. That's our university. That's our students. That's a big part of this job. And, you know, it's something that I'm really committed in doing. because that's how you build a program. And we've got to get to that point where people care. What did Wojo say?

I mean, I find Wojo to be a phenomenal dude. I know he promoted Duane Killings, he'll be a head coach probably next year. Brett got a job at Holy Cross, which is a – he'll turn – that thing's going to take a while because they're running Princeton, and he wants to play the opposite style. But, you know, Wojo's got a really good sense of this thing.

What did he say when he told him you're taking the job? Well, he was happy. You know, I mean, Woj and I've been together. you know, a long time, you know, five years and his business is long. I think he was really happy. Obviously, you understand who I am, knows who I am, understands as a fit.

But more importantly, you know, he understands how hard, good jobs are to get. These jobs are hard. They're hard to get. Any jobs are to get. And to get one that kind of fits my personality and who I am and a place that, you know, I feel like I can have an impact on,

he was ecstatic for me. I got two more, and I know you've got to go. I hear children in the background. Okay, number one. Oh, you did. Did you watch, did you watch the documentary, the, what's it called, the scheme? I have not yet. I know that was on yesterday, but I've been so tied up.

So hopefully tonight, at some point, I don't watch that. Here's the question that matters. I get frustrated because people in my business think, everybody cheats. Everybody cheats, right? That's what they say, everybody cheats. You know what's the big deal? Everybody cheats.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You've been a part of it your entire life since you left to go to southern Utah to becoming a coach. And obviously now in the Division I level for close to 15 years, right? If somebody says everybody cheats, you're in the business.

You've been a recruiter. You got Marcus Howard to leave Phoenix at 17 years old and come to Marquette and become the all-time winning scoring. Is that in any way an accurate statement that everybody cheats? No, absolutely not. I don't believe that. I actually think there are a lot more people who do it right than those who don't do it right.

And, you know, I've worked for, what, seven or eight different coaches. I've been at seven or eight different places. And no one who, in which I've worked with, have ever functioned that way. No assistant coach that I've ever been around because they're functioning that way. So to make a blanket statement like that, you know, I think it's, it couldn't be further from the truth. You know, we have, there are so many good people that do it right in our business, but like anything else, anytime somebody does something wrong, we tend to want a group entire population in there. Sure.

But that certainly has not been the case in my career and what I've seen. obviously there are people who do that but that's in any business you know there's a lot of businesses where people aren't doing things right that's not in collegiate sports uh but I wouldn't mischaracterize everybody in in the banking world or

or on Wall Street as being guys who do it wrong I think it's unfair we have a lot of good people and we have a lot of good people who do it right and I've been lucky to just be around those types of people I lied I have two more now okay a Stan Johnson coach team.

When you want somebody to walk out of Gerson, which even before the tournament, just so you know, that place used to host NBA Summer League. You know, before Zalombie State, it was at LMU. You know, guys used to always play pickup ball there. That was because it's a great location

and really nice gym. But when somebody walks in, and it's going to process, that league is a bitch, because you got it going Zaga, BYU is rolling now, St. Mary's has got it going. And the middle of the league between San Francisco,

we talked about Santa Clara, Like that Pacific and what Damon Stoddemeier's done, that's a, that's a, it used to be everybody fighting for third place. Now it's, it's fighting even lower than that because it's so good. But when somebody walks in and then walks out of Gerson and says, hey, I just saw a Stan Johnson coach team, what do you want them to say? Well, there's a couple things. One, I hope people when they see us, they say, boy, that's a well-conditioned team. I hope they'll say, man, that's a well-prepared team. And I hope they'll say that is a freaking competitive team.

And the thing I've told our guys is we're going to do three things outside of that. We're going to be unselfish. That means we have gotten over ourselves. That is controllable. We're going to be unselfish. When people watch us play, they're going to see that ball moving. They're going to see us protecting each other defensively. We're going to be a team that's connected.

Again, we have to do the little things right before we can get to the big things. To me, we can lead the league in high fives and butt flaps. When people see us, they should see a connected team, guys that like each other, that care about each other, that look out for each other. And then we're relentless, man. I want a team that attacks. I want a team that puts people on their heels.

I want a team that when you play Loyal and Maramount, you may beat us, but even in beating us, we're going to break you. And get you to the point where, you know what, I don't want to play them again. That's what I want. And everything I just said to you are things that we can control. I haven't said anything about, man, we're going to bang a bunch of threes and all that.

We want to get to that point. But we have to master and be good at the little things, dominating the little things and controlling the things that we're capable of. And all six of those things I just mentioned were capable of regardless of talent. So I hope when people watch us, they can see that. And for me, this year, especially as I try to build this thing and create it the way I want it, that's what I'm evaluating. you know, we have to get that right.

Because if we get that right, we'll get the talent and time. We'll get the right pieces to play in the right system. But that culture piece for LMU and that identity piece, that has to be right as we begin this thing and go down this road. Okay, so the coronavirus has canceled the Biggie's tournament, which stinks, cancel the NCAA tournament, which stinks. Right now we'd all be getting ready to go to the final four, and there'd be a lot more jobs open,

but everybody'd be hitting you up. Like, no, no, no, I got my staff, right? On the other hand, here you're about to move with your family cross country from Milwaukee to Los Angeles. There's got to be, the silver lining has got to be,

normally a coach takes his job and he doesn't see his wife and kids for a month. That's not the case here. Give me one thing you're doing around the house outside of trying to build a program off a cell phone that you'd never thought you'd be doing. this time of year? Now you're going to get me in trouble because literally that's all I've been doing for the

most part. Now you're going to get me in trouble. I'm sure you're going to leave. Why would you get off the phone? Oh, man. Thank you. Thanks a lot. That's all right.

Listen, we're all getting it. You're like trying to work. Like really, you know. Yeah. I mean, you know, just the fact that I could sit here in my house and start the piece of this thing together. Yeah. And you have your family around.

like you said, that would never have happened. You know, we'd be gone. I mean, my kids are doing homework. I can see that. They're running around here. They can come in here and listen to my calls. They can sit on the couch. They can, you know, they can feel like they're a part of what's happening.

You know, that's pretty cool because that probably would not have happened until June, you know, or July. And then they show up and you're on the road again. So that's been the cool part to make them feel like, you know, they're a part of what's going on here as we, you know, take this new adventure. Well, listen, what they can do is you can all, on your way out of town, take all those jackets, give them down the Goodwill or just light a match because it got, it got really, it gets really cold in, in Playa del Rey, a couple times a year, gets into the 40s, maybe high 40s or 50s.

So I just, yeah, I hope you're, I hope you're prepared for the cold coming from Milwaukee, you know, and that it does. It gets down occasionally to the high 40s. Well, you do know in Milwaukee when it's 40 degrees, people are out playing golf. No question. That's like summer out here. Well, listen, hey, great catching up. Congrats on the gig.

And I look forward to when you finally do touchdown in L.A. again, let's catch up in person. Thanks so much for joining me. Yes, sure. Thanks, Doug. See, man. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. noon Pacific.

What a great story, right? Starts in Liberia and ends in Pliadale, Ray, at least for now, as the head coach of LMU. My thanks to Stan Johnson, all that time that he put in to give us this interview. Hope you enjoyed it as well. Make sure you send it off to a friend. You tweet it out. You put it on Facebook.

This is a great way to learn from coaches at different levels, different levels of experience, and what they're thinking and guys they learn from kind of along the way. I appreciate you downloading, subscribing, and rating this podcast. Make sure you tell a friend about it and continue on with us. Thanks so much. We got more up coming for you. I'm Doug Gottlie.

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