The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - UCLA Asst. Michael Lewis on Final Four Run, Gonzaga Matchup -- Gregg Gottlieb Talks Pac-12 Tourney Resurgence

Episode Date: April 3, 2021

In this episode, Doug talks with UCLA Assistant Coach Michael Lewis about the Bruins' sneaking into the NCAA Tourney, what came together during their unexpected Final Four run and their upcoming matchup with undefeated Gonzaga. Also longtime Pac-12 Assistant Gregg Gottlieb explains what's behind the much maligned Pac-12's tournament resurgence. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard,

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Here's what we're doing to do. We have two guests, and they'll go back to back. Okay, one is, they're actually both super close friends of mine. One is Mike Lewis. He's a assistant coach at UCLA. And he joined me. This is today we're dropping it on a Saturday, final four Saturday. He joined me last night right before he had to go get another COVID test.

And we talked a little bit about his journey, whatever, but more about the team. You love it. I mean, I think he gave me 30 minutes. He was supposed to give me like 10 or something. It was awesome. And then my brother, Greg, who was up until this year, Now he's at Grand Canyon with the women. But my brother, Greg, was the longest tenured, Pact 10, then Pact 12 assistant with, I think, six years at Cal and five years with Oregon State.

And so I got his thoughts on why the Pact 12, how have we got overlooked or whatever, however you want to term the Pact 12? Anyway, look, the final four is upon us. When Zag is the favorite, I've told people you've longed are the best team. Best team doesn't always win the thing. But it does happen more often than you think. It really does. I think that Zags are going to win it. And I think they're just a team where they have so many different, what's called

implied threats, right? You don't have to, Corey Kisper didn't make a shot in the elite eight. But because you know Corey Kisper is going to make it half the time, he shoots it, he's an implied threat. You guard him with the man and a half. I just they got and it's a hard matchup for UCLA because once you get past the starters, you're going kind of all defense for UCLA. And then now the sudden, you know, when you put Kisper running around shooting threes,

I don't, Cialin Suggs a hard matchup for Tiger Campbell because he's so big and he plays really downhill. I just, I like Gonzag and the match. I don't know if I like them with the points, you know, 14th, five, look at bed reversed. for their points. You know, they have all the kind of game day setups, whatever. I don't know if I like to put the points, but I definitely like Gonzaga to win the game. And I'll be interested to see if UCLA can keep them within arm's distance

because they just found a way to win games. Houston's tremendous defensively, tremendous on the boards. Again, don't think they have the offense to keep up with Baylor. And I think Baylor's a little better defensively than Gonzaga is not as good offensively. But I love Baylor's guards and their toughness and their size at the guards. they'll be fine. I think in order to do a true podcast on the jobs,

we'll have to wait until Carolina is closed up. Porter Mosier apparently is going to be Oklahoma's head coach. I have to say this. I think Joe Ciglione is an amazing athletic director. I don't know who's hiring for the women, but I'm sure she's more than compliment competent or he, whoever she hires. But Porter Mosier, though it's not, you know,

And 80, it's not Billy Tubbs in terms of style, in terms of substance, it's big time. And they go from, they had Kelvin and then to Jeff Cable. I think Jeff Cable's an outstanding coach who's just inexperienced at the time. I think I got away from when he recruited, you know, a bunch of high school Americans, but he was great with Blake. And I think he's doing a good job at Pitt. You go there to Lawn, to, like these guys at Oklahoma, they've kind of a remarkable run. Even going back to John McLeod with quality head coaches in Norman.

I like that hire. I love the beard hire. I know the Texas Tech not happy about it. I think Chris Beards is good at coaches. There isn't college basketball. He loves Texas, a state. He loves the University of Texas, having been there as a student.

And I think you'll get just a slightly better player at Texas than you do at Tech. And I can't imagine how good his program is going to be. He's phenomenal. And getting Chris Ogden to come back home after being at UTR and as head coach and they're close friends. I don't know, I know Yorick Malagai is going to, Oric Malagai, excuse me, he's going to join him. He's a big time recruiter, big time.

So they'll get players, they can coach him. Those are two really good hires. Big 12 is a beast with good young coaches. Unlike, you know, the retirement of Roy Williams, like Jim Behanms, they're retired, coach Kay's retired. It's one of the reasons, ACC may be a little bit easier to compete in than the Big 12 and Big 10 because Bill self-s

signed a lifetime contract. Chris Beard just signed a contract. You know, Porter-Mosier just signed a contract. Mike Boyden just signed a contract. These guys aren't going anywhere. And so their programs are going to be awesome. They just are. And, you know, I'll see what T.J. Altslberger could do.

Go be back at Iowa State. But we'll have to do a whole pot on the hires and the thumb up, the thumb down. We can call it now. I want to get you, though, to this conversation with Mike Lewis. Mike, of course, was a great player at Indiana. He was Bob Knight's last point card. When I got fired after the. that 2000 lost Pepper Dine.

We were supposed to play them. We played Pepper Dine instead. But Mike's well-travel. Played in USBL. We played against each other. That's chronicled some in a previous podcast we have. He worked with Chris Beard at Texas Tech. Back when Coach Knight was there.

Mike is a tremendous. He's the offensive coordinator when he's at Butler as their head coach. He went to Nebraska under 10 miles. And now he's at UCLA with Mick Cronum. So what's it like? like in the bubble. What's it like with this team? Let's catch up with Mike Lewis. All right. So this is your hotel room behind you. We want to only do a little bit of video just to tease ahead. But you guys arrived. What, selection Sunday? No, we arrived on

Monday the 15th. That's right. Because everybody else was there who knew they were going. And you guys had to wait to find out. Correct. Okay. So take me back through. It's Friday and Saturday, selection week. How did, selection Sunday? Yeah. Yeah, we lost in the Pac-12 tournament, lost a tough game. And so we decided to go back to L.A. And so you lost four, a row, but to all teams, I get, you went back and look. You actually, you have like one, I think it was Utah, like the only non-tournament team you lost to, right? Yeah, correct. Yeah, we lost two, those four in a row, all four teams were in the round. We're in the Round of 32 and three of them were in the sweet 16.

So, yeah, we just, we weren't finishing games. And, you know, free throw here, there, you win a couple of those. But, yes, we ended up going back to L.A. We didn't feel like the setup in Las Vegas was the safest, maybe, for us. The last, with, you know, two or three free days. You know, you're in a casino. So there's people moving all around, you know, and trying to stay away from COVID. So we went back to L.A.

where we've had success, staying healthy all year. And we got together for Selection Sunday. And we were feeling good until the last region. And we, you know, we hadn't heard her name called yet. And we're getting a little worried. And then, you know, luckily we got in the first four. You know, thought we probably deserved to be a little higher than that. But that was the hand we were dealt.

And so we've played it. And it's worked out pretty well. Okay. So what does Mick, okay, and as honest as you can, when you see Michigan State in the first four. And, you know, you tell the guy, hey, this is a great opportunity, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, you know, all we got to do is keep winning. You close the door. You're in the, you're in his office, coach's office.

You're in the. But we're not, we haven't been in our offices since last year when COVID started. We've just been in a conference room in our practice facility. So it's, we haven't been in the offices. So we actually, when it, when it first came up, um, really a sense of relief that we that we were in the tournament that we were going to get a chance to play extremely happy for our guys that they're going to get an opportunity to play in the tournament because nobody in our roster played in the NCAA and they're at UCLA so that doesn't happen often right

but then we knew we had our hands full and once we talked to the guys and we got back together and started to you know divvy up the scouting responsibilities and game prep and obviously all the travel you're waiting to hear from the NCAA when our flight was going to go and making sure we were going to we could have time to practice in Los Angeles before heading to Indianapolis because we knew we had to quarantine for a certain amount of time once you arrived in Indianapolis and making sure we were going to have an opportunity to practice before playing Michigan State. So tons of things going on logistically. So did you practice on Monday before you left?

So we practiced at 7.30 on Monday morning before heading and jumping on a charter flight and arriving in Indianapolis. You know, the time change, you know, flying across the country is really what snowed today. Yeah, on that. So we did. We got a good crisp 90 minutes in and jumped on the plane. We got here to Indy. I think we got to our hotel about 9 o'clock, immediately got a COVID test in. And then we were quarantined in our rooms and they dropped food off at our doors. You know, slept, woke up. I think we had we had a test again after, you know, 12 hours, had to go back to our rooms. for another six, six or seven hours until our second test got, we got the results and got the okay to practice late at night on,

I think that was Tuesday. So, so. Yeah, it was Tuesday. And then our practice was that we had to go to West Lafayette. I don't know if that was Tuesday or when. I think it was Tuesday. They're all run together. We've been here three weeks.

But our practice time was from 9 to 10, 30 p.m. in Lafayette. So we had to jump on a bus and make that beautiful. for right up to Purdue and practice. So, and we got back, you know, obviously you get back at, you know, it's after midnight, one o'clock. Okay. Side note, there's a bunch of other things here. You're in Indy where you used to live, right, from Butler.

I, you comes open as well. I know that's kind of near and dear. And you're back in your home state as well, right? Okay. So let's go through. First, the Indiana thing comes open. Okay. Yeah.

So we're at practice. We get done with practice and I get. my phone is just blowing up, you know. Which practice? The practice in LA. So prior to getting on the charter fight is when it happened. And my phone is just blowing up, obviously, you know, you know, being a former player, you use a lot of texts from friends, from former teammates, other former players

that I've gotten to know over the years, you know, just, you know, your programs without a leader. So everybody's, you know, wondering what next is. So it was not only are you getting ready for the NCAA tournament and doing all those things and trying to get settled that way, but you also got, you know, a program very dear to your heart that's making a change. How hard is it going to be, you know, Mike obviously played for Coach Knight. That's kind of the bond, right, which is a big thing. I can tell you just, you know, I like Mike Boyton a great deal. He's done a really good job and he's trying really hard. It's just

different when you're not, you're not coat. And he does all the, like literally checks. If there was like an OSU bingo, like he knows he gets bingo all the time, right? But he still, you know, if he would just, if he just would have played there, it would have been so, so different. Okay, but Mike is a very, very different era from you. Um, what's the jet on text like, what's, what's it like in regards to the higher? Uh, excited about it. You know, I, you know, one, I'm, you know, extremely excited that one of us, you know, got the opportunity to lead the program. I think that is really important, especially at a place like Indiana. I think, you know, Woody's experience not only playing in Indiana, playing in the NBA

and then coaching in the NBA, you know, the guy understands basketball. You know, he gets it. He understands Indiana. He understands what it can be. He was a part of it when it was rocking and rolling. You know, he understands it and he cares deeply about it. Like I told somebody on the radio today, I was like, you know, this has to work for Woody.

Like it can't fail. Like it has to work. And he's going to put everything he has into it. I think Scott Dolson's going to give him the resources to be successful. But if you're Mike Woodson, you have no choice but to be successful. Because could you imagine being Woody and failing at this and then having to go have dinner and sit across the table from Quinn Buckner and Scott May? Like, you know, you can't do that.

You can't look at your former teammates and everybody else in your program, you know, after if this doesn't work. So I have complete trust in Woody. I think he's going to do a great job. I think he's going to get Indiana basketball back on solid ground where we can become, you know, Indiana again. And what all of us know Indiana can be because I just, I think he cares way too much about he's going to pour his complete self into it and get it done.

I know they're not I you guys. Okay. And they're both very different personalities. But why, like just your, your outsider looking in of a program you love? Why didn't work? I mean, Kelvin, obviously, he couldn't get out of his own way. I think some of it was the wrong guys. But the last two, like Tom comes in, he's got like a 10-year deal.

And he started to get some players but could never really figure it out. and then aren't you in there that long, but never seem to figure the place out. Like what is it that is so unique and so difficult, other than, you know, you're kind of chasing ghosts of five banners that are hanging up there in the end zone. Yeah.

You know, I think Indiana is just different. It's just a unique place. I think the fan base is very passionate. Some say they have unrealistic expectations, you know. I mean, maybe to an extent, but, you know, are they unrealistic now? Because they weren't unrealistic 20 years ago. Right.

You know, it's interesting. Here's the, here's the, you're at a place. Yeah. That's famous for unrealistic expectations. And our guys have embraced it. Like, I've said this many times in these last two weeks being back here in Indiana and getting asked it all the time. Like, I work on, I work in a place that has 11 national championship banners.

Like, that's really cool, you know. And there's a ton of responsibility that comes with that. And you have to embrace it. I think that's why Mike. Mike not only understands our program, he was a part of it, right? He knows what it can do for people. He knows what it stands for. He knows what it means.

And he embraces all that. And I think it's hard for somebody that doesn't get that to truly embrace it. Right? You know, it's just always... Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball. basketball to college football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at It podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed cracks. I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Now you're finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations

with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough.

Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search, learn the hard way, and listen now. Just a job. It's, you know, it's Indiana. But, like, it just. means more to the people that have been a part of that program, just like if, you know,

the pro, you know, Oklahoma State, like you understand what you just talked about with Mike. And I think Mike's done a great job of Oklahoma State. But like, when you've played at a place that has the history and tradition that Indiana has, it's just different. And it's hard to explain. And if you don't understand it, then you just don't get it. And it's, it doesn't mean you're a bad person, but it's just, it, when you wear a uniform like that and play for the guy that we played for. And you have the feeling of what that means to so many people, not only former players, but fans and everybody else. You know, it's just a special, special place, and we just got to get back to being what it can be. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.

Catch all of our shows at Fox SportsRadio.com. And within the IHeard Radio app, search FSR to listen live. When was the last time you seriously considered your dream? Did something? never thought you would do. How about live the van life in a totally customized Mercedes-Benz Sprinter van? You could tour the country, whatever you want to dream up. And we're talking about Mercedes-Benz van here.

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Council. And we're live here outside the Perez family home just waiting for the... And there they go. Almost on time this morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double-arm kid carry. Looks like Dad has the bags. Daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Dipers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but Mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter who looks to be about nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed, and they're off. Ah, but looks like mom doesn't realize her coffee cup

is still on the roof of the car, and there it goes. Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fam favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at nhtsa.gov slash the right seat.

Visit nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Brought to you by Netsa and the right seat. had counsel. How would you, how would you, Kelsey, because I do think that one of the things that's really hurt, Coach Knight, had he gone to TV around the time that you played for him, or five, ten years before that, five, ten years before that, when he was kind of at his peak in terms of personality, success, I know he didn't win a national title after the, you know, the 80s or whatever, but, you know, like early 90s, had he gone. He'd probably still be on TV. and he'd be revered.

But because he was kind of grumpy old man by the time he got and he hadn't really, didn't really watch, just didn't go well. And how it ended Indiana, right? Because of those things, I think that you say they would name Bob Knight now and a lot of people take the negative that overwhelms the positive. There's going to be negative there, right? Just is. But there's a lot of positive.

Having experienced and having lived it and now having worked with others and for other really good coaches. Like, how would you, how would you describe your experience, which was not always pleasant, was not always perfect of playing for Coach Knight? Well, I say this a lot. I use it in recruiting. Like, I absolutely loved my college experience at Indiana. I mean, I loved it. I would do it again in a heartbeat. And when I'm talking about my experience, I'm talking about the whole thing, right? Coach Knight played a major role in my experience. And what was, what's, a huge part of it. And I know how I personally feel about my experience and I want the players that I coach, if they feel about their experience, wherever I've been and wherever I've coached

them, if they feel about their experience, the way that I do about mine, then I'm doing something right. So, and Coach Knight played, like I said, he played a huge part in my experience. He's played a huge part in what he's experience and all the other players there. And he just means a lot to us. You know, not, not, uh, because we're around him every day. And we don't just see the, the, you know, blips on TV where, you know, whatever's going on. You know, we see and know the, the real coach night. You know, it's interesting is you, I want to get to each individual game really quickly and then to the Zags, but you've been through a lot, right? You know, you at, you, you, you decide to leave Butler and it was kind of your save zone. You probably could have stayed there for a long time,

and then gotten a head job in the Midwest, you know, but you chose to go and try with Tim at Nebraska. You guys had some success, had some failure. Then you get fired. Then you're out of work for a couple months. You're going to hang out with Brad in Boston, right? Trying to figure some stuff out. Then you go to UCLA and as people who know, know, like,

it wasn't like you and Mick were super close. Like you learned to work for a new guy in a new city, completely different, right? And it's a different job. It's not like you're living right around the corner. from campus, very different. And then you guys had some early success. Then everything got shut down.

And then you had this weird end to your year after a crazy losing nation and Chris gets hurt, et cetera. And you have a big transfer. Your wife is your high school sweetheart. I got to want to like when you get to the phone four and you call out. I don't know if you got to see her or you call her. Like what does she said about this crazy ride? Well, you know, COVID is different.

California than in his, you know, here in the Midwest. So my girls, or I just began going back to school in person for like a half a day, right? And so we just felt like, you know, they've always, I think one of the coolest things about coaching is when your family gets to experience, you know, things like this, because, you know, you're not around them a ton during the season. And so this is kind of like the end goal and the vacation, so to speak. But we decided, because they couldn't travel with us on the team playing. They can't stay here with me in the bubble. So they would have been separate.

I couldn't see him anyway if they came to the state tournament. Plus, they would have had to quarantine for 10 days when they returned, which would have taken them away from, you know, school and volleyball, which they're doing and they love and enjoy. So then we decided to keep them back. And so they didn't come to the state tournament. And we went a game and, you know, it's like, oh, good job. You know, we went another and another.

and hey, we're going to Sweet 16 and, you know, and Nicole, my wife's name's Nicole. She's like, and we're coming out. I'm like, no, this, you know, they need to be kids. Like, they need, it's their first time going back and being around other kids. No, I remember, I remember we came over this summer. They hadn't seen anybody. Nobody. And they were like, my kids are like best friends because they hadn't seen anybody.

Exactly. And they never met, you know, but they just had a blast. So we just, you know, I'm like, no, whatever. And I said, if we, if we can pull two more off, like, you're coming. You know, and so we, we, we've got to the final four. And so they, they landed about 45 minutes ago. They're staying in the hotel, I mean, right next door. So I'm hoping to my, my room doesn't face that hotel,

but I'm going to go to, I'm hoping they're on this side where they're facing. Like wave through the window, you know, like how sad is that? But I'm happy they're here. I think it's great. It's going to be a blast. They get to experience it. Like, we were able to go outside. Victory Field is just over my right.

shoulder. And we walked around outside just to get some fresh air and they, you know, they escorts you over there and all the safe stuff. And Mark Few is standing inside victory field and his family is standing outside victory field talking through a gate. But that's how we get to communicate. You know, like it's, it's not ideal, right? But I do give the NCAA credit. They have done an unbelievable job in setting this up where we can do it in a safe way. And these guys get the experience of playing in this tournament. I couldn't imagine everything that went into logistically pulling this off. And they've, you know, we're a few days from getting it done.

Okay. So you mentioned you got to break up the standard report for Michigan State. How does Mick do it? Well, mix on every game. So we're a typical staff. Like we just, you know, every third scout is yours. And, you know, Mick just dives in head first on each one game to game to game, you know. You know, he'll meet with that particular assistant that's in charge of that scout.

And you bang out the game plan and go work. Okay. So who had Michigan State? His preparation is off the charts. Who had Michigan State? Darren had Michigan State. Okay. So Darren has Michigan State.

Game was, and this is my, look, you coached in that league. So you tell me if I'm wrong. I believe, my belief. Yeah. Huh? it was a football game right but but this is my belief people have asked people are critical of the big 10 i'm like no big 10 was that good this year there's a great league okay but every game i did that's what it looked like yeah that's what it looked like it was just it's a

it's grabbing and holding and guys falling around and all the sudden you get into the nca tournament and they don't and some of them they don't let you play like that some of them they do but i think that that that hurts them because You know, you can hand-checking the whole dudes, you know, sometimes you can get away with things like Loyola. I thought the way they played Illinois, for example, you know, as opposed to as opposed to the way in which Illinois guarded them. You know, Illinois just kind of grabbed them and chased them around the court and played man up and funneled everything back to the big guy. And that's not the play to play, Loyola. I think the way in which their league plays and is officiated, I think that sets them back when they get the NCAA term.

You've experienced it. Is that wrong? You tell me your thought. I mean, there might be something to it. I don't know. I always, you know, I think, you know, matchups have a big, a lot to do with it. We struggle. We're down 11 at half against Michigan State.

You're down 14 at first half, right? Yeah, at one point. Yeah, and I think it was 11 at halftime. And, you know, you can speak about the physicality to your team. I'm not sure they really believed us. Now, we played Ohio State early in the year, and we told them then, and we got pumped. So we told them, Michigan State is, you know, Ohio State on steroids as far as the physicality. And, you know, you're down 11 and half.

It took us a little bit to warm up and embrace the physicality of the game. And now, once we did, then we were able to take control, you know, in the second half and eventually win an open time. What did you change? What did Mitch change at the half? What you kind of free to get soft? Like, hey, like, listen, you can't be soft. We were kind of trying to keep them in front. They're a big set team.

And we were just trying to guard the sets. and we're like, you know, listen, let's just go try to blow everything up. Let's blow up ball screens. Let's get out in the past and then you're, you know, because they're a point A to point B to point C and very crisp in execution. We just try to take them out of that stuff and just be much more aggressive and more physical. They call timeout and they're going to have the ball for one last shot of regulation. Okay, because they end up, I think it was an Aaron Henry like contested jump shot,

I think is what end up being. Yeah, yeah. So what, do you remember what was, what was, what, do you remember what was set now? No, I really don't. I do remember we, we had a good idea that, hey, listen, they're probably going to go to Henry. And they just, I think they just ran like a little ISO for him in a slot where he could rip and drive to his left hand. Just do not let him beat you going left. Like if he's going to beat us, make him beat you going right.

Do not let him beat us going left. We, Jules, I think Jules Bernard did a great job on, on that defensive play and had a great contest. And then we got in a number. overtime and really, really got out quick. Okay, so then you get that done with that one. And then now the fun starts. Now you get, you get, now you get an upset, right? Yeah.

So we got BYU, who is a great offensive team. You know, they play extremely fast, the pace their offense. And I thought we did a really good job against BYU, just kind of, taking away a lot of their ball screen actions and their dribble handoffs. How did you do that? How'd you do it? We just stayed aggressive, just blew them up. Like we're going to hard hedge.

We're going to switch our likes and just be ultra aggressive. You know, we can't be passive. We learned that, obviously, in the first half against Michigan State. We're going to guard harms one-on-one, try to push him off the block, making, you know, try not to keep him or try to keep him off his right shoulder, you know, because he struggles to score, you know, other than his right shoulder. And just make things really difficult. And we had a great defensive effort.

I mean, I think they got 60 on a last second shot. at the end and they normally average 80. So again, we're where we are in the final four, Doug, because we played, you know, however many, what is that nine consecutive high level halves of defense. And that's why we're where we are. When you never worked for Mick, you guys knew each other a little bit.

There was like neutral respect there, right? Was there a moment where you're like, this guy can really fucking coach? I was, you know, I believed it when I went there. I knew he was good. But in our first year, when we're struggling, I think we started 8 and 9 or 9 and 8, something like that. And he wouldn't give in. Like he wouldn't give in to those guys.

He's like, this is how we're going to play. This is how we're going to win. Like, this is what winning basketball is. Like, you know, you guys have to change. You can have a different voice in this locker room, but you guys have to be more coachable. You guys have to change your mentality. You have to change your approach. You have to change your work athlete.

And to those guys credit, they did. But he never compromised. Like he never gave in just, you know, rev him up and try to win this game. Like this is how we're going to win. You know, and he looked at it from a long-term, you know, situation. And he's like, we're going to set a standard of how we're going to play now. And we're going to recruit to it and this. but our guys bought in, man.

They bought in. We went on that run last year, and we've had it all year now. He's a, he's, I think he's one of the best in our business. I really do. He's got a great way of coaching these guys hard, yet they, they know how much he cares about him. He's got a great balance when it comes to that. I mean, he's, he's, I truly believe he'll, he'll be the guy that hangs the 12th banner in Westwood. I got about five more minutes.

Perfect, perfect. I got to do like my 180th COVID test of the year. Again, I don't want you to miss it. Then you missed it. Okay. So tell me about Johnny. Because Johnny last year, I did a couple of air games. And it was just, it was a bit too much.

They went to a three-guard lineup, so he had to play some four. everything was fast. You know, he's in the SEC. There's grown men. How did you get, how did you get back to being him himself? And by the way, that played for Mick, the weakness in his game has always been kind of toughness and defense. So he's got to earn his, he's got to earn a respect of Mick.

Like, how did you guys get him right? But I think the one thing that people don't, you know, that is underestimated is he reclassed and moved up a year. Like, that's hard. But I mean, you know how hard it is going from senior year high school to freshmen at a high major level and that adjustment, right? And just imagine trying to do it a year earlier. Like it's really, really hard and especially at a place like Kentucky. And so this really should just be his freshman year of college, honestly.

But he came to us and he is coachable. He was open to, you know, us coaching him. We were very straightforward with, hey, you know, for you to achieve the things that you want to achieve and become the player you want to be, you need to do XYZ. Like you, you can't be a nobody on the defensive end. We was very honest with him. And I think he, he respected the fact that, hey, listen, these guys understand my deficiencies. They want to, they're going to push me to get better. They're going to be there to work with me to get better. And he's, he's bought into it. You know, like, has every every day of practice been great for him? No. No, like you're going to go

through gross as a player. But I do think he understands that, and I told him, like, when you express to me what kind of player you want to be, then that's the player I'm going to try to make you, and I'm going to push you every day to do that. And you've got to meet me. And he's proven that he can be, his defense isn't where it needs to be yet, but it's a lot better than it was when we got him. And he's much more conscious. He just, he's competing harder on that end. He's embraced more of the physicality of the game. And once Chris got hurt, you know, Mick set him down and talk like, hey, you've got to become more than just a shooter.

Like, you're going to have to be more of a leader on this team and more of a score, not just a shooter. You have to give to the foul line more. You have to be able to put the ball on the floor more. And he's really done that. He's really grown into his role. And we wouldn't be in the final floor without him, obviously. I mean, the guys carry us on a few games just by himself.

I got two more than you can go. First one is you mentioned Chris, Chris, Smith, towards ACL. And there's video. and we'll put it on this. There's video from Matt in Orlando, CBS, who's getting mixed, doing the interview.

And first, you're talking your point guard, right, and Tiger. And then you go over to Chris, who's not celebrating with the rest of the guys, which is like,

that's the job. Everybody doesn't, I think everybody thinks the job is drawing up plays on an app. Right. That's the job, right? You're in the people business.

What did you say to Chris? Well, I just, you know, I, this is my first final four, Doug. So, like, I didn't really know how to react, you know, and I just turned around and I saw, you know, Chris just sitting on the bench, like, you know, in his own thoughts, he looked a little bit emotional. And, I mean, I can only imagine how he feels. The guy blows out his AC, he enters the draft, comes back to do and accomplish exactly what we are accomplishing. Yet he can't be a part of it, you know. And so I just went over and, you know, he's his big. part of what we're doing as anybody else. He was here when this thing got started last year.

He was through the rough times when we first got in here. We're trying to establish how we want to play, how we're going to win. He improved as much as anybody a year ago, his game and what he could do. He put himself in a position to be talked about on draft boards. He decided to come back to make himself more attractive to the NBA, was just starting to the round in the form the six months of not seeing our players in person, I think really affected him and his development. But he was really starting to come into form and just, you know, letting him know that, you know, he's, even though he's not playing, he's played as big a role as anybody else in us getting to the final four and how important he's been to this program. And, you know,

his buying into us last year kind of got everybody else to go along with. us. It was just a cool moment. How do you beat Kinsega? You got to make the game ugly, in my opinion. I mean, I don't know. Like, nobody's done it. There's no blueprint on how to do it. They're really good, very talented, very athletic. They're big. They're good defensively. I think they're pretty, I think they're underrated defensively, if that's possible. Extremely well coached. I mean, they're just, they got everything you want in a college basketball team, Doug and, you know, the good thing. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

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and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search learn the hard way and listen now. We're not in the NBA. We don't have to beat them four times. We just got to beat them once. I think for us to be successful,

we've got to muddy it up, just try to frustrate them, control tempo, you know, be physical. We're going to have to get some breaks. And then just try to get it to the under eight timeout. with a chance and then try to try to be there at the under four and see if you can't get them to crack. But I think the first thing that we have to do is survive the first five to ten minutes of the game.

I mean, they come out and go right at your head. And you better, you better respond. Otherwise, the game will be over. So they're an excellent, excellent basketball team, but you're not going to get, you're not going to get any freebies in the final four now. Last thing, kids from Indiana, played Indiana. Yeah. You coached a Butler, but after the final fours.

Now you're at UCLA, but a massive underdog. Have you at least thought of the possibility if you win the next two games for what that might be like for you? Yeah, I think you always think about it. You know, you always think about it. Like, you always think about being in the final four. And I didn't really know how to react when it happened because you're just like, you know, I sat down on the bench, Doug,

and it was just like, just kind of tried to take it all in and it was just looking up and, you know, just kind of, you know, my career from playing to coaching and everywhere I've been and all the people I've come across just, you know, kind of, you know, all the different, you know, memories and feelings and all that type of stuff. To win this thing, man, I, who knows, but I do, this group here is, they've proven everybody wrong so far. You know, we got, I think you just go out there and try to win the first four minutes and then try to go one and you know i think how but your backup your backup center was great yeah i mean we we we're going to the final four with kinny newuba playing 20 minutes it was unbelievable

like guys have guys have really just kind of embraced the role and just it's i'm sitting there going like why aren't they playing at n then he throws it n and they were like five and a half to go in the game i was like whoa what are you doing what you doing i'd tell you when it's hard to explain but when you when you're with a team, and you've been on some, when you're with a team that it clicks and they get it, you know it. And it's hard to explain how it happens or all that stuff. But we're in a pretty good spot right now.

These guys have really competed hard. And it's been a lot of fun. I mean, if we can win two more, you know, when you're at UCLA, like when you're able to make your mark in history at UCLA, like you've done something. And these guys going to the final four, they get to put a year on the big boy back. manner. So, but you're at UCLA. So if you want to sit at the big boy table, you got to get

yourself a ring. All right. We'll go get yourself swabbed. And then we're going to do another one. If you win, we have to do another one. Because it's good luck, right? And then when regardless, we're doing a postseason one and we're doing beard stories. That's what we're doing. We're doing we're doing. If we're going to do beer stories, we probably need to have a beverage or two while we're doing. That's what we're going to do. And we can get beard to do it with it. He'll do it with. with, you know, he's got his fireside chats or whatever. He's bringing those to Austin. We'll do some, we'll do, he will definitely keep Boston weird.

All right, go. I appreciate it. I wish you the best of luck tomorrow. Go kill it, all right? Appreciate you, man. Thanks, Doug. Are you an architect, contractor, or engineer looking for more knowledge about energy efficiency? Here's your opportunity to fuel your future.

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Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination. Our sense of wonder. And our family bonds grow too. Because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, We reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org.

Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. All right, that's it for Mike Lewis. Now let's welcome in my brother, Greg Gottlie. He's been an assistant coach, San Diego State for eight years when Steve Fisher took over, Cal for six. I think we're going to say five. So no one knows the Pact 12 like Greg Gottlieb. outlet. You were the longest tenure assistant in the Pact 12. What's your reaction to the league's success in the NCAA tournament? Well, first of all, historical perspective. My first year in the

PAC 12 was the last year the UCLA went to the final four. And that by far and away in the last 15 years was the best year league. Because if you look at the talent that was in that class, in the pack 10 you're talking James Harden was that Arizona State OJ May or Taz Gibson at USC you got Russell Westbrook Kevin Love among probably a half dozen pros on that team at New CLA I mean everybody the Lopez twins at Sanford everybody had pros and so at any rate I'm looking in this year and I'm thinking tremendous pushman a lot of times I think the pack 12 hasn't gotten the credit when credit was due because they didn't do well in the non-conference. And I think everybody would attest if you're in the league.

You say when the league is down, the games weren't any harder to, they weren't any easier to win than now. And so I'm looking at it right now. I think you got Oregon State, they win the conference tournament. They were playing hot. They kind of came together at the right time. UCLA just was a gritty team all year. They had more close games than probably any team in the country. You know, Colorado, I think, was an extremely experienced team with just about everybody

returning and added a couple of really big time grad transfers. And they were pretty consistent all year long. We all knew Oregon was the most talented team in the league. And USC did an incredible job of kind of melding a group of some of their core returning players and a bunch of grad transfers and then somebody special like Evan Mobley. I mean, it really, there's only one freshman that really made an impact at any one of those teams. And that's Evan Mobley. So you're looking at an experience group.

And I think in today's game, you win with experience. And that's probably a big reason for their success. Okay. So the question becomes, how does the league parlay this into more success? Sure. Well, again, I'm going to go backwards a little bit. I think success has many fathers and failures in orphan. And right now I saw where a lot of the athletic structure, the Pact 12, come out and start patting themselves on the back and saying, boy, we did a great job with this new scheduling philosophy has really helped our programs.

I don't see where scheduling came into play this year because a lot of teams didn't even play the schedule. They had initially scheduled a year in advance. Number one, number two, the teams got, they didn't get very high. seats but I do think you're you look at a program like Oregon State and I think now all of a sudden you know there's a lot of people that are talking about them there's a policy that's created it kind of you know winning in the tournament kind of gets you a little more credibility so now they'll be able to get to the table with maybe kids that are a little bit more highly

regarded whether it's high school kids local kids or or, you know, even the portal, which right now, everybody's recruiting kids in the transfer make. So, but because everybody's doing it now, there's still a pecking order. And, you know, but you're going to see teams in, you know, obviously USC having a tremendous Khadji, probably one of the, has probably had as good a year as anybody as a grad transfer. If you're going to see those grad transfers are going to look and say, hey, why not go there? That worked out pretty good for them.

How do you, and, you know, when you were a cow, you didn't have one, any one in Duns. They had Sharif and they had, um, jailing after you. But there's some people that believe, well, it's like a cognitive thought to recruit a one and done, whereas I don't actually think that's the way it works. Like I could be wrong. I haven't recruited like you have. So like Dacia Nix, for example. Okay, so UCLA, when Mick got the job and he hired Mike Lewis, Mike's a good friend of mine. And he said, like our number one focus is Dacia Nix.

We won a big time point card. He's the best one. Now, obviously they got, there's a bit of a bad luck because of quarantine last year in the shutdown. And then Dation was all in on going to play in college, decided to go to the G League select when they kind of up the offer. But when you start recruiting a kid, is there any level of concern with them being a one and done? Is that like a cognitive like, hey, we should recruit him? No, he's a one and done. We should not recruit.

Well, I definitely think that was something I learned working for Mike Montgomery, you know. And, you know, he was the one that kind of pointed that out a lot of times because I don't think it's necessarily bad if a kid's good enough to go to play in the NBA after his first year. But I think if he already got in his mind, he's won and done. And he's already got one foot out the door before you get there or he's everything's all about me. then I think those kids are going to be hard to win with, to be honest, because at some point, I don't care who you are or how good you are, you got to give yourself to the team and make some sacrifices. I think you saw that with Evan Mowbray.

I think he didn't need the ball every time down the floor. He was someone who could be plays even when he didn't have the ball. There was obviously times that he did make some plays, but other people stepped up as well. So he was surrounded by other experienced players. You know, I think when you look at teams that have struggled with the one and done kids, teams who are entirely led by guys that are, A, inexperienced, and B, like I said, that one and done is super talented, but, I mean, Ben Simmons is the first one that comes

to mind. His team didn't go to the NCAA tournament. You know, there's been a bunch of them. Markell Fultz, you know, they really struggled, and he was the number one thing of the draft on Washington struggled. sometimes it's hard to win with those guys because of their sometimes it's a little bit all about me but I do think the right kind of kid there's there's still a place for those guys but also you got to you know now everybody's recruiting one year at a time regardless whether you're talking about

a one and done for a lottery picks or you're talking about a kid who's got one year left on a grad transfer I think most teams right now are are trying to assemble their roster for next year right now. That's it. They're not thinking about what's happening in four years. They're trying to assemble next year's team because kids are going to leave. Do you like that? I don't know that I necessarily like it or not. I think, you know, it's really more about analyzing what's going on and then, you know, adjusting and adapting to what's happening, number one. And then number two, you know, trying to be creative and in terms of what you're

recruiting strategy or philosophy is because if you're not at the top of the food chain, you're not going to necessarily get the same guys that everyone else is not pissed off the same beer as everyone else, so to speak. So, you know, I think if you look back 10 years ago, you know, Iowa State was an example with Fred Hoyberg. They made a living on transfers, but no one else in the league was really recruiting transfers. They were getting high school kids. But now Kansas has taken a transfer. I mean, I just saw where Kansas is taking a division two kid who's transferring up, who's supposed to be a heck of a player. But the point is, I mean, if the people at the top of the, you know, the basketball food chain

are recruiting transfers, then if you're not at the top, you may need to find another area, you know, and then evaluation becomes a really important part of the equation as well, because there's a lot of evaluating kids on film right now based on synergy, which is how you watch all the college game films or junior college game films division two films everything's on synergy yeah i i think though that one of the things that that we've lost sight of is you know and you know it's interesting that it coincides with the supreme court case against the nca but no one's ever like there was no question of why do people watch their a college basketball team play right and you watch kids

your school and you learn about the kids but you also watch because of the kids but you've seen them kind of grow and evolve over time and now it's like we need name tags for every kid on every school and then like how many

like now we have like two time transfers which is a lot you know and I just I think we're taking from a bit of the core of what it's supposed to be about because everybody's chasing after that, whether it's the almighty dollar or recognition or playing time, whatever.

Like, people don't, people are going to, they continue to struggle to watch, especially early in year because you're like, I, not just I don't know who these kids are, but the ones that I do know, they're playing on a different team that I remember. And that's really, that, that's just hard. You know, you, in college basketball, is at its, at its peak. And granted, there's always been guys leave early. And this is just, but this is the AAUization really of college basketball. And that, you know, it almost feels like at some point we're going to go to, oh, you're unhappy this semester. Well, next semester, you should go play at a different school. I think there's validity what you're saying.

But, I mean, you look at the NBA. And, I mean, the NBA has got, you know, same thing. You've got guys that are forcing trades. And there's people that are constantly on different teams. and people are going to still follow their schools, no matter who got to school. I guess as a coach, my thing would be just you just got to see where the trends are, and instead of fighting it, you've got to kind of be able to figure out how you can thrive, given whatever this scenario is.

Because we could say the same thing about the rules and the way some of the rules that have changed the way the game's being played, and whether we like it or not, but this is how the game is being officiated, or these are some of the new rules. The three point lines here, it's further out than what it was. So that's the rule. I mean, there's a lot of things that kind of go into the way the game evolves. Yeah, it's really hard to build a program because kids that are freshmen,

very unlikely, they're going to play four years in your program. And we still are trying to help these kids graduate. And, you know, we want to turn them into people that can be productive in society. they move on. Those are still big parts of what you're doing and mentoring is a big part of it. And I think, you know, you hate that kids could potentially drop, leave when there's a sign of adversity. When things don't go well, it's not my fault. It's coaches, it's coach's fault or these other scenarios and you'd like to see them fight through the adversity because everyone's going to face it at some point. And so that's the thing that I think is interesting. You know,

And if we go back to the PAC 12 overall, you know, back to the original question of why we think they're so successful, you know, even the word adversity, I think every single one of those teams faced a good amount of adversity during the course of this year and really came out on the other end really strong. I mean, Oregon, I mean, they hardly played during the month of January and early part of February and still had a chance to win the league, which is incredible, right? you know, Oregon State, you know, they started off slow. I mean, they had a couple really bad losses early on and didn't think like things were going their way and they turned it around. You know, UCLA, adversity, lose your best player early in the year. They lost a handful of games down the stretch. Get in the playing game and I've been in that game and, you know, a lot of it is your attitude and mindset because sometimes, you know, your kids can be disappointed that they're in the playing game, or they could be excited that they're just glad to be there. And if you're at UCLA, we expect to be there, that's hard.

So that's a tremendous accomplishment for their staff to handle that. And that's really been a huge deal with this year, it's all the adversity. And then, and again, back to what we were just talked about, you know, you wonder how kids are going to handle adversity all the time. They always going to quit, and are we teaching them the right thing to give up and go somewhere else? So it's an interesting fine line, right, because there are some kids, you're like, hey, you're not going to be happy unless you're playing and you're not going to play a ton here. Or by the time you do play, you know, you may be so embroiled in unhappiness.

On the other hand, there is the, you know, there's so many of these stories of kids who, you know, you wait your turn, you get your turn and your game is developed. You take off, you know, and it's the overcoming adversity angle. It's like a really hard thing to balance. And then the other thing that's- I'll tell you, one of the best things going was, it was on my Twitter feed one day. believe it was a kid from Abilene Christian who didn't play a minute in the game. And they kept showing him behind the bench and how fired up he was. You know, those kids are, now there's kids are, you know, they're rare. You know, sometimes you're paying over a bench and you get a kid pouting, you know,

because they're not playing, you know. So, you know, right now we're, that's one of the biggest things of the coach is to try and get all your, you're everybody on your team willing to sacrifice a little bit of themselves for the good of the order and usually they're the ones the benefit the most and i you know i think of most of these kids that have just recently like we're talking about the pack 12 or teams that have gone to the nca tournament for the first time in school history or things of that nature i mean they're so appreciative of the sacrifice they made looking back i i got to believe every one of those kids in all those programs we're talking about right now

are on a high right now and realize those are going to be moments they're going to be talked about for years you know at their perspective schools when they come back and talk about in Oregon State being at the elite eight or USC at the elite eight UCLA going to a final four

you know those are things that people are going to remember those teams you know, you make history. What do you think of Gonzaga? Man, you talk, again, I'll tell you, incredible team. And I think what's not talked about enough, and we were just talking about adversity,

but, you know, in every team faces it, but the adversity for Gonzaga is, you know, how do you handle success night in, night out? Like, he's done such a good job, not just level-headed and be ready to go, but like they're they compete night in, night out. They're so consistent, you know, and some of that is just about your ability to deliver effort.

You can get beat by an inferior game on any given night. And, I mean, they are so consistent with, you know, they have an inside, outside punch. They got great shooting. Guy like Kisper, it might be one of the best shooters in the country. They got guys that can score at the block. They're hard to score on. They got good lengths.

I got a great freshman guard. I mean, they got a little bit of everything and they got depth. And I got to believe their practices are a war because, again, they bring it every time they cross the lines on the games. So I think everybody would be shocked if they don't win it based on their performance. And yet, every team that's playing right now, they're still left. They're all really good. So, you know, if UCLA can slow them down, I don't. didn't think UCLA would be able to flow down Michigan and hold them to 47 points,

but they did. A heck of a job. And that was with Alta on the side, too. Okay, last thing. We've seen UCLA make the final floor with Ben Howlin, and yet for whatever reason, he could never keep everybody happy there. What, like, what does Mick have to do? I mean, other than you continue to win, is there anything you can do?

at UCLA to be more accepted. Because, you know, the Ben thing, I do think that there's some recruiting stuff that went awry and some of the ways in which he was perceived and guys he played and guys he didn't play, et cetera. They never really seem to get into Steve Alford, but that's like every UCLA coach, right, where they don't, even Jim Herrick won a national title.

And yeah, you had the Moni's thing and the expense reports, but that seems so minor. but they're never truly into Jim Herrick. You and I have been around it our whole lives, but you've actually been in the league for over a decade. So how do you fix the UCLA thing where there's always a disconnect? I think everybody looks at all these other things, but, you know, Kentucky, Duke, those are two examples this year

where, I mean, they just flat out weren't the same. program and I think UCLA both for Steve Alford and Ben Allen you know the biggest problem they had every year was turnover you know and you just mentioned it earlier I mean they they had so many kids that were playing only one or two years in the program I mean you know Steve Alfred has the year with Lonzo Ball at T.J. Lee's Lonzo Ball and forgot the other big kids name I mean they have three freshmen going to the draft right away I mean there's your recruiting class done and every year you're constantly having to bat a thousand with who you bring in and if you don't you're in trouble and I think that's what's kind of happened a little bit with

Kentucky and Duke this year but and that's what happened with UCLA I think both Ben Howland and and Steve Alford had some of those same issues I think that's been a huge issue for them and I think but for Mick with this particular team I think you point pointed it out earlier. I mean, they got some really good players, but did they have anybody who's a surefire 10-year pro on their team? I don't know. And obviously Johnny Zhu Zhang's been tremendous.

But, you know, I don't know that they have anybody who's going to put their name in the draft when this week is over. Probably Zhu Zhang does just because he's been so good. But Ju-Zang is a guy who they got the benefit of, you know, he goes to Kentucky and he sees some adversity. and he leaves, right? And so he's already seen how hard it is to make it in college basketball. So even as a, you know, a sophomore, he's kind of seen the other side to it. So there's a different level of buy into what he's doing in terms of workouts and understanding for how valuable time and minutes are.

And he had to kind of earn it, you know? So like even that kind of worked out in their favor, you know? But they're going to return an experienced core lineup. of kids even next year is the point. Yeah. Yeah. In a normal thing. Kynman's not going anywhere.

Um, let's see. Other singleton's not going anywhere. You know, as long as they're happy with their playing time, which it's, it'd be really amazing. You know, I saw Adam Miller, a freshman who started for Illinois, like in the portal. Like, dude, you started as a freshman in a team that won the big tournament and kind of won the big 10. Like, what more do you want?

I don't get it. And I think that's why coaches are constantly recruiting and, you know, always if you're not, you're in trouble, you know, and you've got to always, you got to people are always, always be recruiting, I think, is the, you know, because you never know who's, who's going to surprise you and leave and you have to protect the program as a whole. So, you know, but you were asking specifically about UCLA, but I think. all those teams. You're going to look and see a lot of these teams. You know, the interesting thing, everybody in the NCAA gets their year back. But at the Power 5 level, very few kids that are seniors are going to stay and repeat that fifth year. Or, you know, take advantage of that.

They want to go play professionally. And, you know, you only have such a small window to make money, whether you're going to make money as an NBA player or overseas. So I understand, but it is an interesting. thing in that regard as well. I think there's a bit of a misconception there, to be honestly, the overseas. Like, I understand the NBA, they do have a tendency to pick you apart. But when you go overseas, like, they don't usually, it's not really about potential. You know, they're not going to stash you away for a couple years.

There's no G league thing. They're not going to, can they loan you out to another team? Yeah, but there's very few teams that want to do that. So I almost feel like some of these guys, like, if you are not established as to who you are and what you're about and what type of player you are, then stay another year and continue to build up kind of your resume and your game so that when you do get that opportunity overseas, like you're just, you're ready. Like you can just kick butt.

I understand that's not what people will do. I'm just saying that would be my having lived it. Like it's so much better to be ready and to have a completely refined game and be mature because you're playing against grown men when you get over. there. You'll play against a 28-year-old dude who's this that's his paycheck, you know. Kids are always going to view themselves as the exception to the rule, though. And right now, if we didn't have the pandemic, the G-League was really showing themselves to be a viable force and a good alternative for kids to where there was a lot of kids that, um, we're getting an

opportunity through the G-League to make it to the NBA. Now, making it in the NBA, playing in the NBA and actually getting an NBA contract are really two different things, right? But there's a lot of people that did get an opportunity. And I think a lot of those kids right now that we're talking about are thinking, look, I'll go play in the G League and I'll get an opportunity for, you know, a call-up or, you know, be on, you know, be one of those two-way players. Whether they are going to be or not, that's the way they view themselves. usually. And there's nothing wrong with that, you know. And again, I think the more important thing is just figuring out who wants to be there, who's got two feet in and go to work. And then when the season's over, you know, I think if they got, if those are their aspirations, you know, you got to wish them well. And that's why you've got to be thinking, you know, right now the trend is worry about who's on your roster for next year, you know, and don't worry about, you know, it's hard to worry about three years until you worry about next year. So they just,

That's what I think a lot of coaches are doing right now. And maybe some coaches won't say that, but you can look at what the trend is in terms of recruiting. What that's hurt is hurt opportunities for high school players. Because there's one high school players, coaches didn't get out to see high school players this year. There are schools where kids can have another year, so that's less high school players are going to get recruited because of that. and then because they're taking transfers, instead of recruiting high school player, they're shuffling the deck.

And so people are getting, you know, recycled, let's say. And so I think there's a lot of parents right now of kids who are in the 2021 class that are concerned that there won't be a whole lot of opportunities for their kids. Perfect spot to end it on. Appreciate you joining me. You got it, Dougie. All right. There's your little bit of precursor.

Getting ready for the final four. Plus, yellow flavor to what it's really like at the final four. Feel free to send me out some tweets and some questions. I think we'll record one after the game and have that up on Sunday. But continue to download. This thing is growing leaps and bounds. I know you guys love the stories. I love the stories as well.

We'll get more of them for you. In the meantime, enjoy the games. My Twitter handles at Gottlieb show. The Doug Gottlieb show runs 3 to 6 Eastern Daily or 123 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, Fox SportsRoy.com, the IheartRadio app. Remember to tell a friend about this. Tweet it out. Tell people you like it. You don't like it, whatever.

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