The Herd with Colin Cowherd - All Ball - Wisconsin Coaching Legend Bo Ryan Talks Coaching Path, System, Final Four Runs

Episode Date: April 8, 2020

In this episode, Doug is joined by legendary former Wisconsin Head Coach Bo Ryan on his Pennsylvania hoops upbringing and path from coaching junior high school, to winning DIII titles at Wisconsin-Platteville, to becoming the winningest coach in Wisconsin history, if he would change anything about how he coached the 2015 title game against Duke, and why Frank Kaminksky was such a special player. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played. with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee.

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It's Doug Ghalib here, and you are listening to All Ball, All Basketball, all the time. I've got a great conversation with Bo Ryan, a Hall of Fame coach, Wisconsin Badgers, UW Platfield, UW Milwaukee, his entire path that took him to Wisconsin, and the thoughts of that championship game against the Duke Blue Devils, would he do anything differently

against Tyos Jones defensively? Wait to you hear. Wait to you hear our discussion. Quick, a little note for you. Daily, Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox Sports Radio, available on Fox Sports Radio, the IHeartRadio app, FoxportRey.com.

If you're streaming, or we can download that like a podcast, just like you've downloaded this one. We talk all sports, not just hoops there, but do talk some hoops, baseball, ton of football, getting ready for the NFL draft. That's 3 to 6 Eastern, 12 to 3 Pacific on your IHeartRadio app or Fox SportsReeder.com or download the podcast. All right, let's get to it. Here's my conversation with Bo Ryan.

Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app. Let's start in Chester, Pennsylvania, okay? I've only heard stories about your dad, Butch. I don't, but there's stories from other people, and occasionally you've sprinkled them in in other interviews. What's your first memory? Your dad coached kids growing up.

So what's your first memory of basketball? First memory of basketball. Well, I know your dad had you surrounded by a lot of things. things basketball-wise growing up. So my dad would take me to this hole in the wall gym. It had a roof. It had a heater up in the corner. I can remember this because I was like four years old.

And there was no place to stand while my dad and all these other guys were playing. So I would go up by the heater and sit on a plank and watch these guys play. And then as soon as the game was over, I quick hop down, grab a basketball, and start shooting. That's my first memories of being in a so-called gym. It was a poor excuse for it, Jim, but that's my first exposure. What was it called? Well, it was in upland, Pennsylvania, which is a borough right outside of Chester. and I can't tell you what it was called because I don't think it had a name.

They just said, let's go to the gym. And it was right next to a Baptist church that we were members of. I can see it to this day exactly what it looked like. But that's my first time being in a gym that I can remember and shooting a basketball that way. Now, otherwise, we had, like, Cartons, nailed to telephone poles in the alley, where we would throw not regular basketballs,

but we would throw any round ball we could. But that wasn't a gym. That was outside. Sure. So that's what I remember. Okay. You played quarterback, and you were a point guard, a very good point guard in high school.

Were you better at quarterback? No, I was not a very good quarterback. I didn't throw interceptions. Believe it or not, I didn't turn the ball over. Kind of like, that's how we tried to coach. Yes. I was trying to inject a little humor there, Doug, but I don't think it's got a course. I got it.

I believe it. But football, but football look different. Like, look, football look different even when I was in high school. I can only imagine there was a lot of three yards in a cloud of dust. I just didn't know if you... That's exactly right. I love... I love playing football.

I would hand it off and we had a button hook. My top receiver was a guy named Donald Wesley. His son ended up playing at Baylor and in the NBA. Wow. David Wesley. So that was my tight end. My center was Teddy Cottrell, who was a judge.

defensive coordinator for four or five different NFL teams. And we won one game in three years in football. Because everybody just got ready for basketball. That's the way Chester was. Football was not a sport that got any attention because everybody just waited until basketball season. Why did you go to Wilkes University or Wilkes College? I went there because Ron Rainey, my high school coach, took the job.

And what happened was I had been talking to Temple and Rutgers and a few other places. It sure made it easy when the person you were playing for for three years is going to take you for another four. But there were no scholarships that way. what I did was filled out the application and having been captain of three sports and president of my class, I ended up getting a leadership grant, which paid for most of it. But I had to do 15 hours a week of work study. So I had some different jobs.

I had some interesting jobs. One year I worked in the post office. One year I worked in the district. room. One year I worked doing the lawn, picking up sheets and pillowcases, and then distributed in the clean ones. And then the final year, I was in charge of innemeralds. So it worked out pretty well.

It's amazing. It leads me to what I want to get to when you first started coaching high school and then started coaching in college. So how good were you at Wilkes? Well, I got to play as a freshman. That was the other advantage back then. The other guys that went to, say, Temple, for example, you couldn't play as a freshman.

So being a type A, not playing as a freshman just didn't seem right, or, you know, not playing a full schedule. A freshman did play, but nothing like varsity. And so what happened was I got to shoot the ball more again, in college because they needed scores. They had not had a very good record prior to coming, prior to us going there. So I did score more. So I ended up in double figures two or three of the four years.

Having been a point guard at Chester, I was a distributor. And we had five of this who kind of averaged between nine and 16 points. Chester. But it Wilkes, my teammate, and I, a young man by the name of Rubin Daniels, my roommate, the first year, he and I were two of the top scores because they definitely needed help. So that was nice. I got to shoot more. You mentioned you played for the same coach in college that you did in high school.

Okay, so you have your dad as your formative years. then you have this coach who coaches you for, you know, all these kind of growth years. What were there, like, let's start with your dad. What was his, how did he coach? What was his style going way back when? That's a good, my answer will tell you a lot. He coached football, and he probably won nine out of every 10 games he coached. He had three plays.

His teams blocked and tackled. better than everybody else for 30 years. Fundamentally sound as you can get for a youth football program. In basketball, same thing. He kept it pretty simple, but they screamed, rebounded, and took care of the ball better than anybody else. So he was very successful coaching in Biddy League basketball, youth football

and in baseball you talk about a percentage guy he played the percentages that's where he coached Billy White Shoes Johnson American Legion baseball and he only used Billy basically as a pinch runner

in late innings but he was as sound fundamentally as and I didn't take much of it then I just thought that's the way everybody's as opposed to coach totally completely yeah yeah it's interesting yeah you know it's interesting though because um I just

little little snapshot my dad obviously is uh was kind of you know brought like same way like all of our practices when I was a kid like you know we'd start out with you know we didn't do ball handling as much as past everything was passing you know like monkey in the middle drill bull in the ring drill right right two men you know two men you know two men you know two man, jumpstop passing all the way down, like all these kind of basic fundamentals and fundamentals of spacing. And I just thought that's how all practices were. Kind of interesting, fast forward to our recently canceled Bronco League. My son's just turned 11.

He's 10, just turned 11. Yeah, I met him. I remember. Good kid. I know. I know. He loved it. I want to tell you hi.

So he, I've been like the assistant coach because I travel around during March so much for baseball for a couple of years. Finally this year, it's like, you know, like next year he's probably going to be club the whole year. I don't coach him in club. We let a professional. But in this one, I want to coach him. So I wasn't even there for the first game, but I had run practices. And all the parents, like, man, you drafted a really good team. Gosh, we're fielding really well.

First game. Like, we made no errors. And so my wife was like, well, you'd be really proud of how you drafted. I said, I did think I drafted. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations. with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross,

because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff.

Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker.

Listen to the Cliverts show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm conky. best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest

storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. a good team, but all we did in practice was ground balls and throws the first and back in and up. Yep. And that's basically it. You know, we worked out because the expression I use is the fundamentals or the fundamentals. Like for any sport, the basics are the basics. And until you can do the basics, it doesn't matter what plays you run or, you know, what creative things you can find.

If in basketball, you can't dribble past, not just shoot, but also catch, right? Like catching is underrated. catching the basketball with balance. I didn't know a panse on that. Passing and catching a lost start, by the way. It is a loss. I didn't mean the interrupt you there, but. No, no, you're not.

This is a free-flowing conversation, just whatever. But it's amazing that as much as we like to think our sports have advanced, like things that your dad taught, they still work. They work in every sport at every level. Absolutely. And we get lost. Sometimes we get lost as guys who love our stuff. sport and we get way ahead of ourselves.

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And there they go. Almost on time this morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong with a double-armed kid carry. Looks like Dad has the bag's daughter is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere.

Ooh, but Mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now the eldest daughter who looks to be about nine or ten has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the bag closed and they're off. Ah, but looks like mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of the car, and there it goes! Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fam favorite.

Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Learn more at nhtsa.gov slash the right seat. Visit nhtsa.gov. Right seat. Brought to you by Nidza and the Ad Council. Jumpstop, pump fake, you. You for university.

That's what a lot of people refer to us at Wisconsin. Yeah, and look at your guys. You guys jump stop pump fake more than any team we've ever seen. Yeah, and by the way, who plays like that in addition to Wisconsin now, going over? Right? Like, Jay's done a lot of things, but Jay's teams are incredibly fundamentally. They jumpstop in the lane and make plays. and make the extra pass and pass crisply.

They're the best bounce pass team I've ever seen because all they do in practices, throw bounce passes. It's really a beauty to what? Okay, so then what was your high school coach that became your college coach? What was his name again? Ron Rainey.

Okay, so what was Ron Rainey's coach? He played at Penn State in the 50s. Also played baseball and was the captain and played in the college world series in the late 50s at Penn State. And then he took the job at Chester, and that was my sophomore year. We had four junior highs that fed into one high school. So we all came in as sophomores, and it was Rainey's first year.

And after three games, our sophomore team killed people. We won, like, by 30 each game. And the varsity was struggling, and he put. figured his first year what he was going to do was, may as well get the guys that I'm going to develop for down the road, so he brought three of us up from the sophomore team. And then we started every game, the rest of the way. But he was fundamentally sound as a coach.

Did you guys play fast? You play slow. You play man. You play zone. First time I went behind my back and made a pass on a fast break. at the next time out, he just looked me in the eye and said, it better get there. You can do it, but it better get there. I got you, coach.

Yeah, no, Coach Sutton was much the same way. Okay, so you get done playing. Did you have a plan? Did you know what you wanted to do? Did you want to be like your dad? Like, what was the, take me back, you graduate from Wilkes College in, 1969. Yep.

What was, I mean, a crazy time in society. You're getting done with college. What were you thinking? Here's what I did. Here's what I did. I actually did an interview.

I looked at the FBI, met with in Philly, just to see, you know, just to get an idea if it would be something, that I'd be interested in, but I had a degree in business, economics, marketing,

and Arco, Atlantic Richfield, had hired me, offered me a contract. So I signed with Arcoe and was ready to start working for them and, you know, become a CEO eventually or become a regional manager, whatever, you know, try to move up in the business world that way. corporate world. And then I got drafted.

And I always kid. I got drafted by the team in green. And people go, oh, the Celtics? No, the Army. So I went in the Army. And it's amazing talking to you, Doug, because I know about your family, your dad. So I'm in the Army, and I'm not playing basketball.

I'm not playing team sports for the first time in my life. But I'm on a team, the Army team, but not the basketball team. So I get stationed at Fort Gordon, Georgia, and I get in some pickup games, and the guy comes up to me and says, whoa, where did you play?

What it, why don't we know about you? I said, well, I'm a draftee. Well, we're going to have you on the team. You want to play. We go and play the different bases. and you travel. And I said, are you kidding me? Yeah, I'd love to.

Well, my commanding officer, because of the MOS that I had, working with prisoners in the stockade, they said they couldn't afford to have me go TDI, temporary duty, and play basketball for the post team. So I was crushed. I thought it would be something like,

really enjoyed. And so I couldn't play. So there I am in the service. Didn't know if I was going to get sent to NAM, 69 to 71. That was a pretty hot spot in the country or in the world, as we know. So I didn't get sent, and I stayed at Fort Gordon for my two years. While I was in the service, Doug, the things about my dad working with kids and developing young people.

Well, I decided to teach and coach. So with a business degree, I didn't have the student teaching and a few other things that you needed to be certified in Pennsylvania. So I took a year, did that after getting out of the service, got my teaching

certification and started coaching and teaching in junior high school. What junior high? In the school. So, so you show up, what was the name of the junior high? Brookhaven, junior high, right outside of Chester. It's right next to Chester. It's one side of the street is Chester.

The other side of the street is Brookhaven. So you're Brookhaven Junior High School. And then from there, didn't you go to, didn't you go to Wisconsin for a, like, a, what was it a girl's job? What was the, what was the job that you went to next? Dominican College of Racine? It was an NAA school in Racine, Dominican College. And what happened was I went there with Bill Cofield. Bill Cofield had been coaching at Prairie View,

and had done a pretty good job at Prairie View. But he wanted to come up north. He was from Illinois. So he actually interviewed, he actually interviewed for the UWM. job. And he didn't get it. But when he was in the airport to fly back to Texas,

he met the gentleman who was the president of Dominican College. And then the guy says, hey, we're looking for a coach. Our guy just left. So he ended up taking the job. And then he had also coached at Lincoln University, which is in Lower Merion. And Lower Meriam was one of our big rivals. I was in Chester. And so what happens is he,

he ends up calling a couple guys that had played for him. And these couple guys say, hey, Coach Cofield, but we know, you remember that guy, Ryan, the play, blah, blah, blah. One thing led to another. He calls me up. I interview over the phone,

take the job, and go out of the soon, Wisconsin, and coach there for one year. And then the, school folded financially and

Cofield took the assistance job at Virginia. Coffield was the first black assistant coach hired in the ACC for basketball. You know, he caught a good break.

Terry Holland to this day is one of the nicest gentleman I've ever met. Oh, and he had a amazing staffs when he was at Virginia. Just really remarkable guys.

They went on to great things. I wanted to ask you. So you get to Dominican College, and I think you did something that my dad told me, I remember his first college job, he coached high school basketball all over, Death Valley High School, Colorado Springs, you know, like all of these towns, Dillonvale, Ohio, which is close to where John Havillcich grew up. He was there for a year. Anyway, his first college job was at Quinip.

under a man named Bert Con. Yeah. Okay, so he coaches under Burk Khan. So Bert says, listen, I need an assistant, but you got to coach soccer and he got to coach golf, right? And my dad, though, you know, Jewish from Hewlett in New York, he was actually from the Bronx. They moved out to Hewlett when he's 13. Like, he never played golf a day in his life. He never played soccer a day in his life.

So I was like, how are you going to, he's like, not only did I have to learn how to coach, I bought books. I went to the library, and I got a couple books that how to coach soccer, how to coach golf, but also how to line the fields. I had to line the fields for the games. Now, I know your dad was a baseball coach. Didn't you coach baseball in Dominican as well? I did, and I don't know if you're setting me up, but I don't want you to think I'm patting myself on the back here.

But yes, I did coach one year in college baseball and got coached the year. We actually missed by a game to go to Phoenix for, the NAA national championships. But I had played baseball, played shortstop, lead off hitter, but again,

all we practiced were the fundamentals. Sure. So we would have basketball practice. I would grab a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and then the baseball guys would come in at night and we would go through situations

you know, how important to cutoff man is, how important it is to, you know, with the first and second, nobody out. Are we bunning or we're not bunning?

Who can bunning? Who can't? Who's, you know, what, all these different situations, the same thing that I did coach in basketball, was at the end of every practice,

do X number of possessions of up to one minute, down to, you know, go through the whole scenarios. Um, so we ended up having a great year, fun bunch of guys. And, uh, I was doing it while I was collecting unemployment because the school said they would not fund the coaching position or that the only people ever going to get paid were the people who were teaching classes to end the semester. So I did it while collecting an unemployment check. and we had fun.

That group of young men paid for their own gas as we went from different parts of Illinois and Wisconsin and Iowa wherever we played and ended up having the best year they ever had and really had some fun. But yes, I did.

And had the line to field. It was Catch is catch-kin, so to speak. You know, it's interesting. We're in this era now where, and we can get into it a little later if you want, we don't have to, you know, about players and compensation and coaches and their level of compensation. And when I try to tell people in my profession, in the media, is I understand that people in the media, many of them are by their own accounts and by many people's accounts underpaid, and that there is a great disparity

between some of these coaches. But gentlemen like yourself, that by the end of your career, you're well compensated. Like, it's like people have forgotten the first 10 years of your professional life when you made no money at all and line the field.

Right? Like, it's like a business. Like, everybody only looks at, well, this guy in the business, he's killing it. Like, yeah, okay, but what about the 10 businesses that failed? In the first five years

where he was mortgaging everything of this new business before it actually took off. Like, they're not all, you don't just wake up, become a college basketball coach, and you're making a million dollars a year. Like, that's not the way it works

just like basketball. is you kind of got to earn your way up. And here you are, you know, coaching junior high school basketball after being in the Army for two years, getting your master's degree, and then you're coaching in a college that becomes a defunct college. You're coaching a basketball, but also coaching baseball lining the field. And then you've got to find a new job, meanwhile, collecting unemployment. Okay, so, so you go back to, what, Sun Valley High School.

And I consider myself lucky because it's where I met my wife, so. In, in Racine? In Racine, yeah. She's a south side Chicago girl, but she was graduating from the minute. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games,

from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12

and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app,

Search learn the hard way and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me.

He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office, Blue, 42. A rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker.

Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Joe Rodano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please!

But there's so much more to me than me. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian. And recently, I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need. with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian! I'm not qualified to give good advice!

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as people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite as part of the Mike Cultura Podcast Network available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And I was able to, we were able to meet and hit it off and got married the next year. How did you meet her? She worked in the athletic department. There was only one secretary. And, I mean, it's kind of common knowledge out there.

She was engaged and then decided that that was not. You got her to flip a commitment. It's your first time ever getting somebody to flip their commitment. That's what you did. It was basically it. She was committed but had not signed the letter of intent, right? It was oral commitment, soft commit, and you got her to flip her commitment. That's basically the story.

People have questioned, you know, until you got Decker and Kaminsky and all those guys, like, ah, does Bo really recruit? Like, look, Bo got her to flip a commitment. way back in the 70s. Well, that and I beat her at pre-thros, and she said anybody that can beat me at pre-throw that, you know, he's got to be pretty good. Excellent, excellent work.

So she was a pretty good pre-trows shooter, but there's always somebody better, right? No question. And no, she had no chance against the coach's kid from Chester, PA. No chance at all with your competitive gene. Okay, so you go to Sun Valley High School in Pennsylvania.

You got you take a high school job. Did you, at that point, did you think, I kept getting unemployment because the high school position didn't start paying until September 1.

So that whole summer, what I did was I started a summer league and got a lot of the local guys because it was in the same school district as chest, you know, the same conference now as Chester and,

a lot of the other schools on the south side of Philly. When I was playing at Chester, we had schools from the north side, Sheltonham, Abington, Lower Mary in Norristown, Marple Newtown, schools like that.

But once I got to Sun Valley in that league was Chychester, Chester, Sun Valley, these are schools that most people out there obviously aren't familiar with. But what I did was because I was from the area, I had some contacts that we actually put together

a pretty good summer. So that was fun. Plus, it kind of gave me a chance to, you know, you weren't allowed to coach, but at least gave me a chance to see these kids playing. Kind of like we do when we go to Vegas or Chicago or Philly for the AAU stuff. So, yeah, so I went to Sun Valley for two years. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this Valentine's with 1-800flowers.com.

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to adventure. They see you. Their fearless guide through this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky.

They see treasure and pebbles. They see a windy path that could lead to adventure. And they see you. Their fearless guide through this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. So here's my big question. What kind of coach were you at Sun Valley?

Like now you'd experienced different levels, NIA, junior high school, your dad playing yourself. Now your high school coach, what kind of coach are you? I mean, I know the fundamentals. I know you're not going to believe this. I know you're not going to believe this, but we pressed 32 minutes. I believe it. You pressed in your Plathville, didn't you?

We pressed at Sun Valley and at Plattville, yes. Sure, sure. And the pressure was an annoyance. It wasn't, we didn't have like 40 minutes of hell, like no one. But we were a nuisance. I had all these guys who were all between like five. 5, 10, and 6-1, and I could shuffle guys in and out, and people wouldn't even know there were different guys with the court.

It was, but finally, they bought in, and we played in the state tournament. It's not like back then everybody got a chance to play. You had to either win your conference or have some kind of wild card selection to get in. So we ended up going in state tournament, which was very enjoyable. You know, it made believers out of a lot of people. And then that's when Coffield was offered the Wisconsin job. Right. So Bill Colfield, so people were following now, Bill Colfield, same guy,

coached at Preview A&M, same guy that went to Dominican, became the first African-American assistant in the history of the ACC at Virginia. then in 1976 was offered the job at Wisconsin replacing John Pallis. John Pallis. So he calls you in an American head coach in the Big Ten. Wow.

So did he, did you call him? Did he call you? Do you remember how you got the job? Oh, he called me. We had stated that he said whenever he got his break, he felt very confident that coaching with Terry Holland with that team of Avaroni and Wally Walker and Stokes and whoever else they had.

That was a pretty good team. And Virginia played in the NCAA tournament. So Mike Schuller was the other assistant. Mike Schuller was offered, I believe, the Rice job. And Coffield was offered the Wisconsin job. Obviously, you know, then it was the term was smaller early on. It expanded kind of late. late during, you know, it didn't expand until the 80s.

But Wisconsin hadn't been in the NCAA term since 1947. It was a, so, and it's amazing. You tell people that now, they're like, no way. Like, yeah, I mean, I mean, Stu got them there once. That was the first time. It was in 94. So 47 and 94 never been to the tournament, right? And you reached the tournament.

Yes. I mean, listen, but every year you were there, you went to the end. It's crazy. Every year you're there. I mean, for it's a program. So what were the, what did you remember about the challenges of Wisconsin then? Why was it such a challenging job in the Big Ten to get to the tournament, aside from the fact that there were fewer teams? You're talking about when I was an assistant?

Yes. Okay, well, you mentioned one, the fact that there weren't very many teams that were selected. The field was not 64. The other thing was, Big Ten was really good. And not that the Big Ten isn't good now. Of course it is. when you think about all the guys from the Big Ten that played between 76 and mid-80s when I was at Wisconsin as an assistant,

there was a lot of talent. There was a lot of town, a lot of good teams, and we just couldn't break through. For the first time in my life with basketball was part of the losing team. and I say team because, you know, it's not just coaching, it's not just players, it's not, it's just, it just couldn't get it to mesh. And so therefore, we were let go in 82, and I was asked to keep the players who were there, the Brad Sellers, Scott Roth, Corey Blackwells of the world, we need. needed to keep them there for the next coach.

So I agreed to do that. And then meanwhile, Judd Heathcote had offered me a job. And several other coaches in the Midwest had offered assistant coaching jobs. And I just said, I'm going to stay here. If the new guy wants me, fine, if not. And so what happened was Steve Yoder came in. We were recruiting a young man by the name of Ricky Olson. He was from Madison.

It turned out to be pretty good Big Ten players. Yeah. And we're sitting in the living room and Coach Oder gives his talk. And then he asked Ricky if you had any questions. And, Coach Oter says, Ricky, or yeah, you got any questions? and Ricky goes, are you keeping Coach Ryan? So we hadn't even talked, really.

We hadn't done, because I had taken him right from the airport to Ricky Olson's house. So Coach Jody just said, well, of course I am. He says then I'm coming to Wisconsin. So, any of you know, that's how that one worked out. And he had already told Marquette's coming. So, and for people who are forgetting, right, this is. But he was coming to Marquette. Yeah, and Marquette, obviously, in the 70s won a national championship.

And you mentioned how good the Big Ten was people forget. 76 was the great, you know, the great Indiana team as well. So the defeated team. Right. So, I mean, like, this is, okay, what's fascinating to me is, okay, so now, how did Cofield's teams play? Well, in all fairness, he never really had a system. He would change.

Sometimes he would change in the middle of the year. And one of the things that I know people say about me because they say it to my face is that your teams never change. You have a system. Well, you know, if the system is take care of the ball, get good shots, play good defense, then you're going to win a lot of games. So if that's a system, I like that. system.

But, yeah, it was what I learned. He gave me the biggest break of my life. He got me into college coaching. And the one thing I took away that I knew could help me is to get a tweak, tweak what you have each year. You got a little different teams. You do some different things. But develop players by having a consistent

system. Right. And people will get better. And boy, when we got the plot doing I got to be a head coach, it really worked. That's where

I got a chance to do it as a head coach and and I never changed after that. That's exactly the bridge. That's exactly the bridge I wanted to get to. Okay. So how did the, how did the platform?

Phil job come about? Well, the gentleman that was there had had some good teams, but the last six seasons, they had lost 20 or more games every year. So the position opened. You know, positions open because somebody is not doing the job, or it's open because somebody was doing the job and left to go somewhere, or somebody retires. So George Crisp, whose son is now the head football coach at the University of in Wisconsin.

Paul Crick. His dad was the one that recruited me down to Plathville. I had spent two years with Coach Yoder and felt I needed to, I needed to

use the paint brushes I didn't need to carry the paint cans anymore. Just that itch. That, okay, I got to sick my teeth into something here. And I went in there with a lot of freshman. There really weren't a whole lot of

returning players that were going to help us. But went in there and started doing some things, conditioning, running hills, the weight training, you know, having been in Division 1, that's when

weight training in the 70s was starting to be big. Because if you remember, Roby and Phillips down at Kentucky, and then Purdue, you had a couple guys I'm drawing a blank on their names now, but do you remember those guys from Purdue?

They got in the weight room a little bit. Yep. In the 70s. Well? So, you know, we got the lifting weights a little more. And I put a system in. And that was a lot of Jack Ramsey stuff because he had coached in the Chester area at a Catholic school.

And then was at St. Jones and then coached in the NBA. and then Jack McKinney, I lived across the street from him for a couple years when I was like six, seven, eight years old. So pressure, pressure defense. So I got a chance to put that in early and then again it was more a nuisance. But what happened was in 1991 we went, I mean, we were non-scholarship at Plathville the whole time. But we were paying dues to the NIA and NCA Division 3. Coach Chris, George Chris, the football coach in the AD, came to me and said,

do you mind if we only go Division 3 from here on out because NAA doubled or tripled their dues? And I said, sure. Basically, I don't coach for the trophy. I mean, I'm coaching to develop these guys and, you know, go wise and things to get ready for later in life. And, you know, that doesn't matter to me with division were. So that first year that we went solely Division III,

we won the national championship by pressure. We averaged 90-some points a game. Robbie Jeter was the captain of that team. We just got another job, yeah. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight. real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsClice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsCise on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition,

in the Mental Health Awareness Month. I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys?

This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all. kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes,

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you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

A guy, skinny guy, about weighed about 150 pounds, I think, when he came to Wisconsin, to Plathville. But that group ended up winning our first national championship, and it was with pressure. And our last two national championship teams were done with not very much pressure.

and then the one in between in 95 when we were 31 and 0 and beat Steve Alfred's team for the championship that was a combination to some but we called it basically show and go like show pressure but once the first pass gets in get back

because believe it or not sometimes guys and they take the ball out of bounds they get lazy they jump out they think they got bold they're used to throwing it in right away sure and then you get a steel you get an easy basket and a lot of good things happen but that's that's how we that's how it went at platville but george chris was the guy who talked me into taking a $10,000 pay cut to be a head coach what were you making in wisconsin when you made at plattville

uh i was making like 35 000 that uh Wisconsin and uh took the job for $25,000 at Blackville. And Kelly and I, after our first few years, we realized, eventually when we got to our five to having five children, we were $1,000 short on our income tax filing to receive free lunches for our kids at school. And I think she had tears in her eyes. not because we didn't get it,

but we didn't realize the cutoff line that we were living on with five kids. But who cared? We were okay. The swing. How did you develop the offense? Well, when I was an assistant, I got a chance we could live scout in the 70s. Of course, that stopped. then once everybody got film

on everybody else and there were games on TV and in exchange film. So you could live scout. So I can remember seeing Judd Heathcote, Bobby Knight, Johnny Orr, Lou Henson, oh, yeah, Lud Olson. Anyhow, I could see these teams

and I'm looking at the offenses, looking at the defenses, right in the scouting, poured up, boom, boom, boom. Developed a sheet. that I ended up when I was running basketball camps and for the coaches in Wisconsin and all that trying to, hey, if you're going to do a scaly report, first thing, how far are the walls from the N-line?

How much room do you have on the sideline? Where is the scoreboard? Can you make a full court pass with two seconds to go? Are there obstructions? Are there banners hanging down? and what kind of basketball are they using. And that was 30 years ago, 40 years ago. Because I'd always try to make sure I had at least one basketball

of every kind of ball that the teams in the league were using. And people thought I was crazy. There was a little method to the madness. So anyhow, that was, that was kind of the beginning of the idea of the pressure. And there are times, Doug, that we used pressure from 2002 to 2015, where we used pressure towards the end of the game or whatever. We just didn't have, I never felt we had the type of team that we could pressure for 40 minutes.

If I could be you, you could be me for just one hour. If you could find a way to get inside. Each other's mind. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes.

We've all felt left out. And for some, that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that. Learn how at belonging begins with us.org. Brought to you by the ad council. What grows in the forest? Trees? Sure. Know what else grows in the forest?

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and we're here to change that. I'm April Dinwiddie host of the new podcast. Navigating Adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Each episode brings you compelling real-life adoption stories told by the families that live them with commentary from experts. Visit Adoptuskids.org slash podcast or subscribe to navigating adoption presented by Adopt U.S. Kids. Brought to you by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Administration for Children and Families and the Ad Council. But again, so the swing has some flex properties to it, right? but it's it's oh okay yeah well the thing about the scouting that's where i saw these different

actions so what i did when we got the plat bill i started putting the actions together upscreens the ucala cut uh michigan used a little bit too johnny yore did backscreens you know the tom davis teams with the back as it was called then flex cuts to a coach davis was more to the baseline. Our backscreens, our flex cut, was more off of the free throw line extended. So we had upscreens,

we had back screens, and we always had pressure releases. Because my theory on offenses, there's one ball. There's four guys away from the ball. So those four guys are two tandums of two. Well, that's what the tandem.

But anyhow, you got a teammate who you can play off of and just like the old guys at the YMCA that would beat us because they knew how to cut and read pick and roll, pick and pop and then the old guys would run the court at the Y and we'd say, how the heck did those guys beat us?

Sure. Well, what they did was they were willing to work with a teammate and get them open. It wasn't all one-on-one stuff. You know, to prove who's who's the biggest and baddest. So I called them actions. So we also had fade screens.

Fade screens were starting to be something that people were using. Well, we had them right in the swing. And then finally, the last screen is a ball screen. Because obviously in college, you got the shot clock, and you need to make a play off of them, picking popper, picking. role action. So with those actions in mind, like my dad's football teams, run these three plays better,

right, block better, read better, and in basketball, same thing, screen better, don't set illegal screens, and you can get people open. So that's what the swing was, and then I gave it the name because I got up into the second floor where there was a window to look down in the gym and I had our guys I had one of my assistants had them run through the offense dummy run without any defense

and as I watched it I said it kind of just looks like a swing going back and forth that's why I call it the swing I didn't have the swing in my mind until I saw these guys running it from up above and then did you immediately start You mentioned about having a system, and then, you know, one of the things that, again, I think it's lost on your success is,

not only did you guys develop people within the system, right? Like, look, you know what it's going to take to play. You're going to have to do these things. This is how we play. But also, you recruited to the system. Are you able to do that at a platfield where you don't offer scholarships or do you just, you try and go out and get the best kids in Wisconsin that people missed on or whatever and get, like, how do it, when did you start maybe recruiting to the system? That's a great question.

it's really easily answered at Petco because most of them were engineers. It was an engineering school. So I'm not saying all of them were, obviously. But it was guys who, when it came to recruiting, any kid that was a good basketball player who wanted to be an engineer, we always got them once we started, you know, once we kicked into gear. But we're in the southwest corner.

of Wisconsin. Everybody told me I was crazy taking the job there. That, you know, O'Clair has this, Stevens Point has this, Whitewater has this, and people gave me all these reasons not to take the job, and the more they gave me reasons, the more I wanted to take the job. And I'm glad I did.

And it was, with the swing, it's an equal opportunity offense, yet the better players are going to get, shots. You know, you prove you can score, you prove you can play. You know,

we'll get you looks. So it became, you know, it eliminates clicks. It eliminates, you know, you just, a comment that was made by another coach

after I had left Plattville was, coach, you would, you would sub. And it never seemed like the guys changed. and then the next year you would lose four, five, six seniors,

and your team looked exactly the same. It was like they accused me of having clones. Yes. But it was just because it was the way we played. Sure, sure. And you can make the same accusation. Obviously there were some groups that were different in Wisconsin, but you could make the same accusation in Wisconsin.

It was like, you bring in another tall dude that could step out and shoot. You're like, wait, what? What? Where do they all? They all have a, you know, clean cut haircut. And they all look, you know, like Jimmy Chitwood. And they can all shoot like Jimmy Chitwood. And then they beat the crap at the end on the defense event. And do so with their bodies, not with their hands.

Okay, so. Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to SportsSlic on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so rapidly. up in the chase, that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about. How healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth.

And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42.

Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself.

We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized. but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole,

this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Did you, was there any point where you thought, you know what, I just, I mean, like, look, you had a couple undefeated teams,

you won all these national championships, You're dominating, you become synonymous with Division III basketball. You are the guy. Was there ever thought of, I'll just stay here and be the King of Division III basketball and not go back to Division I? Not really. I'll tell you what happened with UWM. Because, well, Drake could talk to me, Northern Iowa, some other teams.

Matter of fact, there were some schools that talked to me that later on when they saw me at a Final Four or something, the AD, they said, Well, Bo, we're sorry. We missed. We miss not offering you. I said, hey, you know, you got the guy that you wanted. That's what you got to do.

And what UWM made a decision is that they wanted me, and it's nice to be wanted. So the chancellor in the AD, and the chancellor, really, it was Nancy Zimfer, who ended up being the president at Cincinnati when Huggy was there. But anyhow, she kind of made it like, we need something here in Milwaukee. And I looked at the city, and I'm thinking, I've been in the state of Wisconsin. I got 20-some years in, 23, 24 years in.

Why do you need the state? state has one of the best pension systems in the war in the country. So let me give UWM a try. Let me give Division I used to joke. We won in double overtime in 99, our last national championship team, my last year. And I said, I needed to go Division I, because in Division III they were catching up once. Sure. You built a monster now.

Everybody was coming to have it. I don't mean. I know. You would be a wise guy. I know. We were joking about it one time. Sure. So, yeah.

So, and UWM was a project. They, ooh, we did some work. So anyhow, but we had the same situation we went to Platthel. When I went to Sun Valley High School, Brook Haven, at Wisconsin, we went into a situation where it wasn't anywhere near like the other ones, as far as where they were. So what happens is I wanted to take the challenge. It just seemed like the right time,

and I was still in the state of Wisconsin. And so we, plus I like the couch that your dad left there. He had this big orange couch when he coached at UWM, and it was still there. I have no doubt that it was still there. His thing was they were Division I, they were Division I, and he started this Panther Backer program. And again, this is all, you know,

second, third-hand information from my dad or my memory or other people that told me. And they started a really good booster program. They had, you know, the on-campus arena, which the Colacci Center, which had just opened. And remember, this is coinciding with Marquette winning a national championship, right? So in addition to being kind of a start,

start of Division I, you're in the shadow of Al McGuire winning a national championship. Nonetheless, you know, when Title IX was passed, you know, all of a sudden, every penny he raised was going to go to the women's side. He was going to have to take a pay cut to go and then go Division III. And, you know, like they were independent trying to find games. Like, there was a lot to it, obviously. It was a tough, tough job. And I have no doubt that the couch was, I wish he would have left some of his sports

coats behind as well. he chose not to. Okay, so you're there two years. A well-dressed man. A well-dressed man. Yeah. In that area, yes. You're there two years.

Now, I was told Northwestern offered you the job at the same time, Wisconsin offered you the job. Can you confirm or deny? No, I'll be real. No, I'll give you the real lowdown on that. That's not how it happened. The AD there at the time was a good man. A couple players from Northwestern

had gone to him and said, hey, did you ever look at this guy that at Plattville or at UWM now, but you know, what he did at Plattville, there were a couple guys from the state of Wisconsin. And so the AD did some checking, and I'm playing golf in the Milwaukee area, and a guy comes out in the cart,

and he says, I just wanted to tell you, there's, I didn't know if you wanted to make the call right away, but the AD from Northwestern had called and left his name at number. And I said, oh, okay, when I'm done playing, I'll give him the call. So here's what happened. he was going to bring me in with the idea that it seemed the way he was talking, that I would have been offered the job, but he said he had a big-time coach coming in, and that if he didn't take the job,

that he was going to bring me in and sit down and we'll have a talk. I said, fine, great, thank you for being honest with me. So Bill Carmody flew in. Bill Carmody took the job. Okay. How long after that did you get the, how long after that did you get the Wisconsin job? One more year.

I think he was there. Yeah, he was there in 2000, 2001. Yeah, it was one more year. Yeah, he had already coached the year. Because then I got to be the lowest paid head coach in the Big Ten. My first year. So. Bill Carmody,

was making more than me. So, so, and that, that doesn't, you still entertain you at all. But he had won at Princeton. I mean, Bill's a great guy and a great coach. I really, really loved his offensive schemes, the Princeton stuff. Okay, so what was it like to get the Wisconsin job? Like, this is, you know, obviously you're a Chester guy, but as you said, like most of your professional life, you know, you met your wife in Wisconsin, you've won national championships

at Platfield. everyone in the state knows you, knows your family, your family's coaching in the state as well. And you had been at Wisconsin before when Brad Soderberg isn't retained, Brad Soderberg isn't retained, a long time Dick Bennett assistant and Dick had retired.

What was like during the season, did you know you were going to get? I had just finished playing and I was going, I was overseas, so I don't remember how you got, how did it come about that you got the job? Well, we had almost beaten Wisconsin at Wisconsin. my second year.

We had them down at halftime at our place, my first year. And then I don't know what Dick did in the locker room with those guys, but man, he must have gotten into them pretty good because they came out in the second half and just put it to us. And then the next year we had to go to Wisconsin. And we had a chance like 30 seconds to go for a guy missed a tip-in so we don't tie the game, then we have to foul them. So it was a close game.

But Pat Richter is a guy who is very familiar with my background, because he had talked to me before about the Wisconsin job. Then they hired Stu Jackson. I had interviewed, we had met in a place, and so Stu was hired. Great. you know, that's, and I continued to coach a Plightville,

and then, of course, Dick took the job. And, you know, I never, I never worried about where I wasn't. I always concerned myself with taking care of now. So people say, oh, this must have been your dream job. I said, well, yeah, you know, who wouldn't?

want to be a head coach and the big kid. And of course, it's a job that I would want if it was ever offered. So when Pat Richter called and we met, it was done fairly quickly. And they had lost all the guys from the year before that had one more year with kids. Kelly and Burshaw and Kalski, boom. That whole team was back, and they lost in the first round,

and Pat Rickard decided he was going to make a change. So was I excited? Yes. The tough part was telling the Milwaukee guys, who you could see we were turning the corner if we were. guys were developing nicely, and they ended up being pretty doggone good for Bruce. And so, you know, everything works out.

What's interesting about... So that's... So that's... We had, I mean, from the year before, there was Kirk Penny back, who had played, Charlie, uh, Very many other...

No, you had... Devin Harris was a... Now, did you sign Devin Harris? Devin Harris? Yeah. Huh? You signed Devin Harris, correct? Yes.

And Devin wasn't sure when the coaching change was made. You know, he didn't know me. Even though I was coaching the UWM, he knew about me, and I knew his coach, and, you know, knew people around him. So we sat in our office, him and his folks. for quite a while.

And he decided he's going to stay with his commitment to Wisconsin. So it was like a re-recruiting process. You know, what's fascinating about that musical chairs game, right? Is you have, like, you hand off to Bruce. Now, look, Bruce's style is different than yours. It's more frenetic, but they would do the show and go press, right, which is Dr. Tom Davis, a little bit like some of the stuff that you had done. The

The David's graduated from Plotville. Sure. So they had, they also, you know,

they ran, they call it cutters, which is that Dr. Tom Davis kind of version of with the flex,

right? So there's some, there's, there's, it's not the same, but there is some sort of, now you go take

Wisconsin, and granted, they did block remover, which again is a different offense. On the other hand, as you talked

about, it's still two guys on a side running actions with each other. So the evolution, and they taught guys how to play basketball

their structure and that's kind of what you've always done, which is like, look, we give you structure, but then you play basketball, you know how to play basketball within the structure and it gives you in what people would think is not a lot of freedom. It actually gives you a ton of freedom if you know what you're doing and where you're supposed to be, right? So it wasn't, it wasn't like you're going from Nolan Richardson to Dick Bennett, right, which is complete opposite sides of the spectrum. You're going from Dick Bennett, who had turned the corner, been to a for been successful. And now you kind of give them how, I guess the question becomes, and you mentioned,

there's not a ton of carryover. Kirk Penny was really the only one. How hard was it to get people that you didn't recruit, though they knew you and respected you, how hard was it to get guys to buy in? Well, I'll tell you, our practices were down to the minute on, okay, staggered screens today on defense. This is what we're going to do. Here's the drill.

Dribble penetration. On offense, post moves. I always use the Sigma, the Kevin McHale, the Moses-Bowl, the Bernard King, and Kevin McHale, I guess. I don't know if I missed anybody in there. But anyhow, that reversed in it. So every guard, because I would post up guards, because I didn't think guards played very good defense in the post because they weren't used to it.

Correct. So I just stuck with the basics, and we've started out like, what, one in five? And, of course, everybody's going, all as I remember is telling Kelly one day when I came home from a practice back in my first year. And Temple was just beating us in overtime because Greer from third it shot. It was ridiculous. But so they beat us in it. And I said, kill,

look, you got to understand. We got it made. I signed a five-year contract, $300,000 a year. That's $1.5 million. We're okay. That's what I said,

hey, if they want to get rid of me, that first year, that first month, and then we started turning the corner. and we end up tied for the Big Ten championship that was kind of like the team this year.

You were too, for people don't remember. The job that the players do. Right. For people don't remember. They came together. Yeah, you started your coaching career at Wisconsin, started off two and five, right?

You went out to Hawaii, right? You beat Hilo, and then you lose to Weber, you lose to U-8, you lose to Hawaii. You come back, you play Georgia Tech. Terrible scheduling, by the way, playing Georgia Tech like three days later off the plane. You beat Green Bay. You lose in double overtime to Temple. And it's, what does this guy do?

And he took over Wisconsin. And now a sudden they can't, they're scoring in the 70s. And then you lost to Xavier, too. I think you, you know, after you won a game, and he scored 48 against Xavier. But then you guys turned a corner, right? You beat Marquette. You had to go beat Milwaukee. What's that like, by the way, to coach against Milwaukee?

your first year, all those guys you had recruited. Hard. That was the hardest game that I can remember. Because a lot of those guys tried to meet with me when I was leaving saying, Coach, take us with you. Take me with you. And I did not take one player. The only guy that came with me was an incoming freshman who got a release from Bruce

because he was a slow guard. but could score, Clayton Hansen. So, fast forward to 2005, I'll bet nobody, but 50 people could name the starting guards for our elite 18 in 2005 that got beat by Carolina and by five or six. It was Clayton Hansen and Sharif Shambliss. And so Clayton is the only guy that came from Milwaukee with me.

So trying to get those guys ready for a game against a school where you just coached. Yeah. And as my old coach would say, we crushed them. We won by two. Two, yeah. And anytime it was a close game, Coach Rainey would always say, all right, we crushed them.

I scratch my head and go, I don't think we did. Anyhow, that's what happened. We got a steal. Devin got a steal at the end of the game. For layup, they had the last shot, missed. And I was never happier for a game to be over than that one. I feel like Alondo Tucker is the first guy at Wisconsin that you recruited, that perfectly fit how you wanted to.

a guard to play, and he grew within the system, and the system helped me. Doug, that's a great observation because I've said it, you know, from a personal standpoint, in the swing, he can slash. He wasn't a great three-point shooter, but he didn't have to be. He was a good three-point shooter, but he could take you off the bounce, and inside, in the post for as wiery. He wasn't a big muscle-bound guy, but he was

really strong for his weight. So him coming off with some of those backscreens and upscreens, he was one of the best swing players I've ever coached, if not the best, because of all the things that he

could do. But that's a, that's a good observation on your part from the standpoint of versatility is a pretty good thing. I know, and you're right. You're totally right. Like, like, I never played post defense, hated it, didn't like it in practice. And then when you get to professional basketball, they're like, if you get posted up, just foul.

You get six, just foul. You know, and they'll stop. And he was a guy who, if you put a guard on him, he posts him up. We put a big on him. He'd take him outside. And if you play off him, he'd make a shot. Big plays up on him. He goes by him.

And within your offense, he becomes impossible to guard, right? So you pay so much attention to him in the post dispensual to the help. And now you get your big guys out there making, knocking down jump shots and you throw your hands up, but you don't know how to, how to guard, and they can't turn you over, they can't speed you up,

and it feels kind of like an avalanche. And then how did you get your teams to not foul? What is the secret to playing? It's one thing to not foul, it's nothing to play good defense. Your teams did both, how? Doug, first of all, how many fouls are committed with hands?

Too many. Right. All right. So we're not going to foul with our hands. We're going to have our hands out. Every once in a while I did the thing with tennis balls in the hand with the idea that it's with the feet first because the feet have to get there in order for the body to be a wall.

And we'd always talk about walling up. But you have to get there first with your feet. So our conditioning was extremely important. Scott Hettinbach and then Eric Helen, who we had the last five years. And so conditioning with trying to get guys a little quicker laterally. And so a lot of the drills that we did, especially in the preseason, it involved getting better laterally. Get there with your feet.

Get your arms out and make yourself big. And your chest is there. You know, people say, oh, yeah, Wisconsin, watch them. They always put their chests on you. And, well, if my chest is there and you come into my chest, I didn't put my chest on you. But the idea was to try to make no easy three, no threes, run people off the line.

And, of course, everybody talks about it now. but I was talking about it 40 years ago in junior high. They didn't have a three-point line, but no easy outside shots, tough twos. Still, hey, tough twos. And don't put them to the line. You know, I mean, you're going to foul at times,

and you can't give up. It's not like we say, oh, we're a soft team. We're not going to foul you. But the key, Doug, I've always felt. is feet first, the body comes, and then maybe the hands on the extension, but show the palms, fingers out. Don't give the officials a reason to make a call. The other thing is, try to find out, now that you're probably banished to home for a while,

get some takes and try to find out how many fouls we ever committed reaching down. don't reach down reach up your your first great team at Wisconsin great team was the 08 team 07-08 and great in terms of won the big 10 you get one on some run where you went like 12 games in a row

you went 301 games in the I think sweet 16 you run into Davidson and Steph Curry step hits you for six threes 33 points, right? Like everybody remembers Kansas, but people forget, like, you were on a collision course with Kansas.

They were the best team in the Big 12. You're the best team in the Big Ten. You're getting ready to play Kansas, and then all of a sudden you see Davidson. What do you remember about the Steph Curry tornado that tore India? Well, first I want to respond to the 05 season when we're in Oklahoma City

and I think it was 05, Kansas, and we were on the same path. You know, we played Northern Iowa, they played Bucknell and Kansas and Wisconsin was going to be in the next game. Sure. Supposedly.

Yeah. Remember that? Yeah, they lost to Bucknell. Sure. So then here we are in 08. Same thing. But he had just he, Davidson,

Coach Mcillop did an unbelievable job with that team. And Gonzaga and Georgetown before they faced us I mean, if people think, what was Wisconsin doing? Didn't they, did they underestimate Davidson? No, no, I can remember looking at film, putting together the scouting report for Davidson

and going, wow. And then, and people, excuses are for, you know, the week. But we lost Robin Hughes for the second half, and it was a one-point game at halftime. And Chavon uses our quickest car. I thought that, Curtis. And in a year before, we're on a collision course with Ohio State for the Big Ten championship. They go on the play for the national championship in the finals, and we lose Brian Butch for the end of the regular season.

So I thought 07 might have been a little bit better than the 018 if, Brian would have stayed healthy. He didn't dislocate his elbow. But yes, what did Seth Carey do? Knock down big shots, but his teammates hit some shots too. They were a well-rounded team. That was a good squad. When you, what, when you finally got to a final four,

what is that feeling like for a guy who's won national championships? You know, like, look, you won, turn around programs, whatever. But to get Wisconsin, who had been there, obviously 2000, my senior, I remember, but for your system to do it your way with your guys to get there. What'd that mean? Well, what it meant was I know there was going to be an awful lot of happy students on campus and alumni.

And, you know, for these players, their parents, their family, their loved ones, their hometowns, they get to represent a school like Wisconsin in the Final Four. You know, one of the biggest sports spectacles ever. So for me, when you say what it meant was we had a chance to carry our brand for another 40 minutes. Hey, we get another game. And we get to represent the school. And so and all the things that come with it. And as you know, Doug, being in the media,

The interviews, the meetings, that experience at the Final Four, when I talked to coaches that had been the coach in Final Four's 20, 30 years before, and I tell them about all the different interviews and different meetings and different functions and different, wow, they said, we didn't have one-tenth of that in 1980-something at a Final Four. So, but knowing you asked, what did that mean? What it meant was that Wisconsin gets a chance to be out there in the forefront for another, another 40 minutes on the court when we get to play another game for everybody involved.

And I was just happy for all the people who were believers. If you could, the first, the Kentucky game the first year. It's a, you know, it's a one-point loss. is there, is there, if you could pinpoint one thing you personally would do differently, you can't make them make shots, right? Like you just can't. But is there one thing you would do differently? No, because, and the reason I'm saying no is because you look at film,

um, and going into the next year, what we brought back was experience. Um, you know, Frank didn't go pro. And Frank would have been drafted in the first round in two, 2014, but not where he ended up being drafted in 2015.

And Josh Kosser had redshirted a year because he tore his ACL and I had watched him go through excruciating rehab. So you got those two guys an extra year. And I just felt with their experience and Trey Jackson's and, Nigel getting another year under his belt and Bronson Canig and Dewey and, you know, I didn't like look at that loss and say, well, should I play this guy more, that guy more? No, no.

People were in position to make that a W. That shot that Trayvon Jackson took at the end. He hit three times in the past two years as game winners, down the left-hand side, Penn State, Michigan State, and somebody else. So, no, and plus, I don't like to look at something and say there's only one reason. Sure. So let's just look at it collectively. Everybody just needs to play a little better.

Well, okay. And hopefully we get in that position again. Which you did. And the next year, you win Atlantis. You win the big 10. And for people forgot, like, you know, you won seven a row that year, then eight in a row, then 10 row, then 10 row, then 11 a row. You won the big 10. You win the big 10 tournament.

You win Atlanta. Like essentially everything that you guys could win, you won, which not only embodies your personal competitiveness, but the competitiveness of a team, right? That was a special, special group. You beat Kentucky's ass. Now you got Duke. and the famous part about Duke was the Shoshchowski interview at halftime, right? Because Coach Kay thought he was getting a bad end of the whistle, which is kind of classic because that's what people would always think

that you get the great end of the wood. You had your own basketball you used the sterling ball at the Cole Center, right? And guys complained about that and your teams are physical, but they don't use their hands, so you don't get caught. Everybody complains about the way you guys play defense. Did you know at halftime about Coach Kay complaining about the officials? No, no, I did not. But let me go back to the, let me go back to the ball there for a second.

Okay. What team, what team had the only winning record on the road in the Big Ten during the years I was at Wisconsin? I'm guessing it to you. I'm only saying that is that we had to use the other guys basketball. It wasn't the basketball, the Big Ten tournament. uh iso made a comment about the basketball being a rock and all that in the big 10 tournament we played six times that's a that's another ball that's a neutral ball we were four and two in the big 10 tournament and and tom's a great guy i'm just saying he i think it was more like

but there was a school that did have the rock and it was a rock yes that's terrible So anyhow, we, you know, I had no idea what was going on at the time, but we just, we just needed to hit some shots in the second half. And we needed to, you know, try to get a couple, couple charges on what we thought we had position on. And their 50-50 calls and just a couple of them didn't go our way. if you could do it again, would you change your ball screen coverage? That was the only thing that I know you just need to make some shots, but it felt like the way to beat you guys was you were like flat hedging kind of, I don't know what you call it or like sinking on ball screens.

That's how you played ball screens the whole year, you know, with Frank. And Tyos Jones, you know, hit a bunch of shots. If you could do it again, would you change? Well, you have to take a look at the shots that he hit. First of all, we're trying to run him off the three-point line. Sure. And so what we do is we try to get a guy who wants the rim hunt and maybe get one or two on them charges,

and then a guy's not coming as hard, like we did to Trey Burke. And, you know, Trey was as good off that high ball screen as anybody. Sure. And we faced some teams that really had good high ball screen. action. So what we did was we called it Bias Flytrap. We try to sucker a guy in for a pull-up two-pointer. And, you know, not a tough two-pointer.

We got somebody there. We're chasing the guy over the top of the screen. Sure. Usually, you know, when you're doing basketball camps back in the day, you're teaching getting skinny and get over to screen. Well, the way people were setting screens and the way officials were calling the contact, we just got what was called chase mode.

So we're going to chase you over the top. If you want to go to the rim, we got backside help coming over on the big if he's running to the rim. And we're also ready for the big who pops. Because then we simply would end up with a switch and so we got the big who took on the guy coming with the ball off the screen and then our small ends up with the big so now think about this Doug where are we in the shot clock

are they then going to run in action where they're going to get the big down into the post and try to take advantage of a mismatch there's usually not enough time right that's where they played the numbers all right last thing last thing is this your Hall of and I could run through the list of all the Hall of Fame as you're in. And your widely respect is one of the great coaches in the history of college basketball. Does it though, you're so close, twice, and close with another elite eight team. And, you know, the Sweet Six team, the team lost to Davidson, you know, the team the year before that, like any of these teams could very well have won a national championship.

Now a couple years removed from retiring, you're watching great guard. do you feel like because you didn't win a national championship that there is something missed in your career? No, Doug, I can honestly say that is not the case. Because if you get one, why not two? That's a great one. I mean, who's ever really satisfied when you've coached for 40-some years,

it isn't, our satisfaction can't come from only winning. a national championship. I mean, what kind of a shallow life would a person be living if that is the only thing that bothers them or, you know, that you are remissed about or have a hard time dealing with? No, no, there's just, it's too much fun when I hear from some of the former players that I've coached

or find out about the job they take in or find out about how many kids they have now You know, Doug, in coaching, there's just so much more that comes out of it other than how many banners were hung up. Okay, so let me ask you this. Give me one guy, one guy who you take the most pride in his life-changing that you were a part of at Wisconsin. How can you have a guy come in, and for two years average about two points a game, and turn into the national player of the year. From the standpoint of the development of an individual,

nobody comes close to Frank Kerminski. He just, what he ended up doing and what he ended up meaning to the university is a story in itself. But there's some other guys. I mean, we Josh Gosser Michael Flowers You know, two guys from the state of Wisconsin

who really weren't recruited by a lot of other people, period. Like we were by far, the best offer. And how the two of them turned out. The development of Orlando, how he was His eyes, ears, and mine were always open with Tucker.

And, of course, Devin Harris, he, I'll never forget, after the first day of practice, Devin says, Coach, can I ask you a question? I said, sure. He says, so in all these drills and everything, you expect us to go 100% all the time, like full door. I looked at Devin and I said

Yes Of course From that day on Every day in practice Every drill Every I mean he had some talent But he developed that talent Because of his work at it

So I know you ask for one day If you keep me on here I might give you another 50 But you know There are some great stories there There really are that I'm, you know, as I'm getting older and get a chance to reflect upon, that make you feel really warm inside.

Bo, thanks so much for joining us. Okay, thanks, Doug. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific. Pretty cool stuff, right? Yeah, he obviously did not like people questioning the Sterling basketball, because he's like, look, how many games do we want on the road? Still, the Sterling basketball was a hard ball to adjust to.

nonetheless, his style worked, continues to work for Wisconsin today, and it is unique as is as is Bo. Bow Ryan. Hope you enjoyed that. Thanks so much for listening. Don't forget to listen to the Doug Gottlieb show 3 to 6 Eastern, 123 Pacific. You can download that podcast. Wherever you download podcast, you can stream us at foxsportsradio.com.

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