The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Jon Gruden, Jimmy Butler, & the Steelers

Episode Date: September 20, 2018

Colin discusses why Cleveland Browns QB Baker Mayfield might be starting sooner rather than later, what to expect from New York Jets QB Sam Darnold against the Browns, why Oakland Raiders HC Jon Gruden should talk less, his thoughts on Minnesota Timberwolves F Jimmy Butler wanting to be traded, and more on the dysfunction going on with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Guests include Eric Mangini, Greg Cosell, Rob Parker, and Peter King. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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i heart radio fox sports radio and fs one so fired up for tonight thursday night game we could see baker mayfield get to that in the moment sam Donald. We will see Joy Taylor is joining me here on a Thursday. Thursday night games this year. They're better games. Oh, tonight's game is huge. Tonight's game's fascinating. I mean, it's the Browns and the Jets. The NBA equivalent to that is the Brooklyn Nets and the Orlando Magic. But in the NFL, rookies matter. Rookies have an impact, especially if they're playing quarterback. So let me start right here on tonight's game. You know, as a parent, nobody wants to be seen as a bad parent.

And I mean, right, it's like that's what people judge you on years later. or not how much you made, not what you did. What do your kids turn out to be like? And if your kids are schmucks, your views are schmuck. And I don't know how good I am as a parent, but I've always thought a really important thing is the amount of responsibility I can give my kids at an early age will sort of be the grading system.

If at 27 years old, I'm still doing my son's laundry, I failed as a parent. If at 26 years old, I don't trust my daughter to go to Europe. with a friend by herself, I failed as a parent. I don't know necessarily what makes a great parent and a bad parent. But holding their hand, I know, doesn't create a strong independent kid. And that's what we're all trying to create. They can do things for themselves. They don't need mommy and daddy in their mid-20s.

So tonight Sam Darnold's going to play and Sam Darnold's going to struggle because Cleveland has real defensive players. when you're bad for a long time and you draft the defensive side well you get good players and the Jets their defense isn't bad but offensively they have nothing outside of Darnold offensive line bottom two in the league running backs could be the worst tight ends absolutely the worst wide receivers little talent kind of flaky guys get hurt have problems okay not great at times depending on health pretty bad Sam Darnold is going to struggle tonight short week in cleveland rookie quarterback but the jet are telling you, we think he's physically and emotionally capable of it.

And that's the win. Carson Wentz, nobody would deny, has been an A-plus draft pick. He's a stud. He plays this week. He's a stud. And they just threw Carson Wentz out there. That's all I needed to know from Doug Peterson and Howie Roseman. They had somebody else who'd played in the NFL.

They traded him. The Jets had Teddy Bridgewater. traded him. Carson Wentz, by the way, like Sam Donald, had an amazing, amazing first game. And then in Carson Wentz, rookie years, from weeks four to 14, he was two and nine, had way more picks than touchdowns, and his passer rating was terrible. It was like 72. Carson Wentz's rookie year, he had a couple of great weeks, and he went into the toilet. But they didn't pull him, and he were never worried. And that's for an A-plus quarterback.

Against Minnesota, a 52-passer rating, two picks. Against Cincinnati, three picks and a 58-passer rating. And he's an A-plus guy. And he was awful in a couple of those early games. And so was Andrew Luck with the Colts. He was awful. And Sam Darnold, tonight and next week against Jacksonville, has an opportunity he could be awful. Short week on the road, Brown's defense.

But the Jets with Darnold and the Eagles with Wents and the Colts with luck, they're telling you, we trust our kids. The Eagles had Sam Bradford, traded him away. The Colts had Peyton Manning, moved off him. The Jets had Teddy Bridgewater. So good Drew Brees sees him as the next. Sean Peyton sees him as the next Drew Brees. So when I look at these young quarterbacks,

the coaching staffs tell me what they think of the player. I don't have to watch practices with Carson Wentz. I don't have to watch practices with Andrew Luck. I don't have to watch practices with Sam Darnold. If you have a quarterback you could go to, Peyton Manning, Sam Bradford, Teddy Bridgewater, and you move off him, and you're willing to let them play rookie year, knowing they're going to be completely over their head, not just physically.

You trust Sam Darnold tonight and against Jacksonville to go into a game, sack six times, Jets O'Line's awful. I mean, awful. Pro football focus ranks it like 31st in the league. That you trust Carson Wentz to get to you know what kicked out of him and you're like, oh, he's a tough kid. He'll go hunt and fish the following day, take a day off,

wake up Tuesday morning, come to practice, ready to go. Sam Darnold's going to struggle tonight, but with he luck and wince, the staff is telling you. We had a veteran in house. nah, he can not only physically handle it, he can mentally, if he struggles, handle it.

That's all I need to know, all I need to know about Sam Darnel. Let me shift to this. John Gruden stepped in it again. Anybody listening to my show today that's ever been a waitress or a waiter in your life? Anybody listening to me, I worked in a restaurant as a kid. Did you, Joy? I worked in many restaurants. Okay.

Let's say you've ever been a waiter or a waitress in your life. What often happens, you can sympathize with them. You kind of get into the cycle of it. So if you go to a restaurant after you quit doing that, so you're a waiter, a waitress, in your teens, early 20s, and then you go do other stuff. Joy did that and did that her stuff. What happens is every time you go to a restaurant after that, you still, when you're done with a meal, kind of clean the table up for the waiter of the waitress. Start pre-busing. You pre-bus. You kind of clean the table up for them. Because it's sort of hard to turn that off. It's in you, and it was in you for eight to ten years. So John Gruden yesterday once again stepped in it. He was asked a question about a pass rush,

and John Gruden gave a long answer and this avenue and that exit and started talking and kept talking, and here it is. It's hard to find a great one. It's hard to find a good one. It's hard to find one. You just said it. And, you know, college football now, they're, they're not really dropping back to pass and throwing footballs anymore. They're throwing laterals and they're throwing bubble screens and they're running read options. So you've got to train these guys. It takes a little bit of time to learn how to rush the pastor. And we've got some guys that are in that process right now.

That could have been a very quick answer. John Gruden did not have to give that long of an answer because that answer became the story yesterday in the NFL. Well, hey, coach, you had a great one. You let him go. But when you hire a TV analyst who for 10 years is a performer like Joy was a waitress for a decade, when Joy goes to the restaurant after quitting waitressing, she starts pre-bussing because it's hard to turn that off forever. John Gruden for a decade was a TV performer. You don't mumble.

You don't give short answers. You explain, you define, you give long. answers, and it's hard to turn that off. He has still got television analyst in him, and he keeps stepping in it because he believes he has to give a TV answer. No, no, no. Bill Belichick yesterday was asked a question about a book about him. It's got all sorts of juicy details. It's a biography on Bill Belichick. It's the talk of the NFL. But Bill's never been a TV analyst and would probably be a lousy one and felt no need to perform for the media. I feel a biography of me was coming out this month when you didn't participate.

I was curious why. Because I don't have anything to do with it. Focus right now in Detroit, 2018 football season. Like to try to do a good job on that. The football coach who's been a performer is still performing. And this is why I always had questions about. John Gruden. He's not just a football coach. He's a television star and he was damn good. And you can't just turn off once you've been a waiter or waitress for a decade, go to a restaurant. You can't turn it

off. You always have sympathy for the waiter, sympathy for the bus boy, sympathy for the waitress, and you start pre-cleaning. By the way, I worked in a restaurant as a kid for a long time. My kids make fun of me. I'm a pre-cleaner because I've been in those restaurants. I've moved salt back to where it should be and I start stacking the things and I wipe the table down and the kids are like, oh, dad, but my kids have never worked in restaurants. John Gruden was hired as a TV star. He's a football coach now, but he is struggling to turn off the TV star performer. Belichick, who's never been one, here's the question. He turned it on mute. No reason to give the media an inch.

there's a big difference. It's hard enough to be out of this sport for 10 years. But Groon's going to have to figure this out because he stepped in again yesterday, set himself up to be ripped because he started talking about how hard it is to find pass rushers. Yeah, you just had the world's best and you let him go. John, reel it back in. More coach.

Less performer. Coming up next, we may have ourselves a breaking story in Cleveland. Mayfield, could Baker Mayfield play tonight? This is very exciting. It's very exciting. Donald Baker Mayfield. Also, I bet $1,000 on a football game this week. We will bring in the magic suitcase later in the show.

That's going to be fun. Greg CoSell in 45 minutes, the smartest, most objective person, when it comes to quarterbacks and film that we provide that's provided on this network. That's in 45 minutes. Barrow up to 40 grand to pay off your credit card debt. Lendingclub.com slash sports. Lending club.com slash sports. So tonight, Browns, Baker Mayfield backup, host the Jets, rookie Sam Darnold starter.

And I've told you from the very beginning. One of the things that Baker Mayfield is going to have to overcome is Jimmy Haskell. the owner of the Browns. He's the biggest booster for Tennessee volunteer football, which is the most underachieving football program in the country. They can't get the coach right. He's also the owner of the most dysfunctional NFL franchise to Cleveland Browns. I do not believe those are coincidence.

Should be noted his wife is a CEO of a media company, very media savvy. So Mary Kay Cabot has been covering the Cleveland Browns, very respected reporter. I've had Mary Kay on before. she's excellent. She said this morning on Sirius XM NFL, I think everybody should be on the Baker watch tonight to some extent. Now, I want you to think about this.

This was my prediction that Jimmy Haslam was going to come down and at one point ask about Baker early in the season and Hugh will be able to push him off. But by the second time Jimmy Haslam comes, Hugh Jackson, you know, didn't have enough credits, enough wins. Haslum's going to say start Baker. And as I told you, I suspect that Sam Darnold's success early, any success he has, will put more pressure on Hugh Jackson to start him, not because Hugh cares about that,

because the owner does and his media-savvy wife. So think about this. Tyrod Taylor's career statistics. And then I'm going to put up right next to him how he fared last week, against New Orleans. Sean Payton will make the Hall of Fame. Drew Brees will make the Hall of Fame. New Orleans is the hardest place, according to Vegas,

to win in the road for a visiting team. So last week, Terrod Taylor's statistics against the Saints in the four key categories, completion percentage, passing yards, yards per attempt, pass a rating were all better last week than his career average.

In some cases, significantly better. And yet the story this morning is he could get benched. if I'd have told Brown fans, you're a kicker away from being 2-0 against the Steelers and the Saints and the Saints on the Road. Would you have taken it? Because, by the way, that's the truth.

You are a kicker away from being 2-0 against two teams with much better rosters, Steelers, Saints. But because of that kicker and because of that owner of that franchise, Mary Kay Cabot is saying tonight, everybody should be on Watch for Baker Watch. So that tells you the owner, not the coach, is running the team. And by the way, let's say Sam Darnold, and I think Cleveland's going to win tonight. They should.

Short week at home, their favorite in Vegas, their defense actually, pretty good. Top 10 personnel defense so far, I think it'll play out. It's a real defense. And Sam Darnold's got a bad old line, no running backs, no tight ends, and inconsistent, not untalented, but inconsistent wide receivers. So here we go. If Sam Darnold comes out tonight and looks pretty good for a half or a quarter.

I'm not sure he will, but if he does, and let's say the Browns fall behind, 10-0, Jimmy Haslam at halftime is going to be calling the coach. This is something that has to be considered on the Baker-Mayfield trajectory, and something I always talked about. Cleveland's different. It is in the NFL. The owner is really important to have somebody as good as Robert Kraft. Paul Allen of the Seahawks is not known as a big meddler.

Stan Cronky is not known as a big meddler. It's really an advantage. The bear's ownership through the years, dysfunctional. Dolphins ownership, Cleveland's ownership through the years, dysfunctional. So Cleveland's, just don't forget, Terad Taylor, last week, better stats than his career. Terod Taylor is a kicker from beating the Saints and the Steelers. The Browns are a favorite tonight.

The plan's working perfectly. And yet, this cannot be undersold. This is the only Cleveland Browns game this year that is a standalone TV game. This is it. And Jimmy Haslam's media savvy wife, CEO of a company, Can't be undersold. This is the only Browns game that is a standalone NFL game all year. Tonight, Baker Watch.

Shouldn't be, but Baker Watch. Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. So, a week two penalty against Clay Matthews negated an interception by Kirk Cousins, and obviously the game ended in a tie. And now Aaron Rogers was injured in a similar play last year against the Vikings, as we know.

so they changed the rule. And here he is on Wednesday discussing his feelings on that new rule. I've watched the game and love the game for a long time. And some of the rules, I think, help. But some of the rules, you know, maybe are going the wrong direction. I know they're trying to think about the progress of the game and the safety and stuff, but it's still a collision sport and those to me are not penalties. Pot meat kettle?

Why? I don't understand. First of all, Aaron's going to say what Aaron's going to say. These Packer fans are out of their gourd. You're complaining about a call which will benefit you greatly over the next four years because over the next four years. What will benefit you greatly this year? Because Aaron Rogers is running around basically on one healthy leg. And by the way, you play the Rams defense, the Redskins defense, the Bears defense, and the Vikings defenses. Of the top eight pass rushes in the league, you face half of them with a smaller than average. improvisational quarterback who gets hit regularly and is currently hurt. You want this rule to be over-called early in the season to take some steam out of pass rushers later in the season.

Like you want this to be over-called now, Packer fans. I mean, the irony is just so rich. The whole reason that this rule exists is because after Aaron Rogers got hurt, he was complaining about it not being a fair call. And again, I'll go back to it. If you watch the play, I maybe wouldn't have called it, But I see why they did. They're over-calling this.

So by Thanksgiving, when they've called eight or nine of these and it gets media attention, guys won't push their body into an Aaron Rogers, thus hurting the league and a team in a city because you lose a star quarterback. It's for the quarterbacks, obviously. Again, I don't know what Clay Matthews is supposed to do in that spot. I don't know how he's supposed to change his body so he doesn't land on Kirk Cousins. You ever notice this? You'll see sometimes a law enforcement before a big.

holiday. Los Angeles police, Dallas police, Chicago police, whoever it is, law enforcement will set up DUI traps before a holiday. And they're doing that to say, hello, and the media will cover it. There's DUI checkpoints everywhere before a holiday. To remind everyone not to go out drinking. To remind you a week before the holiday is we're out here, think twice about that third glass of wine. This is what the NFL is doing. We're going to overcall it early. Anything borderline we're calling. So guys like Clay Matthews don't knock out a legitimate Jared Goff at Matt Ryan level.

Aaron Rogers. Right. So Antonio Brown didn't show up to the Steelers headquarters on Monday, as we know, and then proceeded to tweet and there's this whole thing. He did practice fully Wednesday. And apparently there will be some discipline for that mispractice on Monday. Here's Mike Tomlin after yesterday's practice on his conversation with Antonio Brown. Gordon Antonio, he and I met yesterday for extended period of time.

time. I'll lead in nature of that conversation between us. There was discipline involved for his mismeeting for Monday. Some of the other things we talked about extensively, he'll speak for himself and some of those things. Really, our focus is preparing to win this game on Monday night. We'll see. I really feel like this is a crucial, very, very crucial Monday night game for the Steelers. It's really funny that, again, Cleveland and Tampa are similar. bad for years, get a bunch of good draft picks, and you hit on several draft picks. Several of the Tampa Bay drafts the last couple years

have been really good drafts. And a couple of the Browns picks have been really good picks. Miles Garrett, for instance, looks like a budding star for the Browns in that kind of Von Miller pass rush mode. And so I don't think I've really looked forward to watching a Bucks game in years. But Steelers Tampa Bay, I mean, what if Pittsburgh loses? It's entirely possible.

But I mean, Cincinnati's for real. Baltimore's improved. Cleveland's absolutely better. I know it's week three. If Pittsburgh lays an egg, watch out. It's a disaster. Watch out.

It's disaster. Because this defense, this defense, joy, you can't turn around this Steelers defense. There's limitations personnel-wise. They got a guy named Hayward I like, and they have T.J. Watt. I think they have a guy named Vince Williams. I like.

There's not a ton of talent on that defensive side for Pittsburgh. Their pro-bowl talent is on the offensive side of the ball. So some of this stuff's not correctable by coaching. They're definitely an offensive. team, but that's the problem. They don't have their key offensive piece in Levy on Bell. Antonio Brown is clearly having issues. And Ben's not helping situation either. It's total chaos. If they lose on Monday, it's going to be a problem. So the big news about Jimmy Bratler dropped yesterday. He told Thibodeau that he wants to be traded and indicated that he would prefer the

Clippers, Knicks, or the Nets. Now, the Clippers have two max contract spots available this coming summer and obviously they're in the chase for Kawai Leonard that made it pretty clear they're serious about making it a, the Clippers, a friendly location for Kawhi Leonard. Now the interesting thing here is, I don't know that everybody can play with Jimmy Butler. So if your choice is Jimmy Butler or wait for Kwai Leonard, if you're the Clippers, what do you do? Let me ask you this. Everybody assumes the Clippers

just can't wait to get Jimmy Butler. Is everybody paying attention to a meniscus issue Jimmy Butler has? Jimmy Butler wants to be a max guy. I'm going to tell you something. If I ran the Clippers, I'd have questions about Jimmy Butler's attitude. He wants to leave Carl Anthony Towns and Andrew Wiggins and Tom Tibido. I'd have questions. And I like Jimmy Butler, but attitude had worry.

What about the meniscus issue? Like he's got an injury history. I mean, they were the 8 seed last year and they had Andrew Wiggins and Carl Anthony Towns. He's a very, very talented player. He's not KD. He's not LeBron. He's not Kawhi. He's not as offensively gifted as Kyrie Irving.

I don't think he has a future of Jason Tatum. I like, he's not James Harden. He didn't have the toughness, the moxier. I think the basketball IQ of Chris Paul. I like him. But we have a guy who is in a good spot and doesn't like it. I'm worried. And we also have a guy with, I think, an injury history that needs to be discussed in the front office.

This idea that Clippers absolutely will do anything to get him, I think, is a fallacy. I don't buy that at all. I like him with the Knicks with Kyrie. And if he goes to the Nets, he's going to be the guy there. So maybe that's what he wants. Oh, congrats. Right, right. I mean, exactly.

And the man in Brooklyn. Right. But if you go through the Clippers, Clippers have to make a decision because if, I mean, they could risk not getting Jimmy Butler or Kauai, but if you still have an opportunity and you feel like a strong chance to get Kauai, do you take that risk? Because maybe Kauai doesn't want to play with Jimmy Butler.

I don't think Jimmy Butler's is. You're taking Kauai Leonard over Jimmy Butler. I like Jimmy. I don't think the media's perception of Jimmy is good, good, rainbows, birds chirping. I think people inside the league. have questions about the attitude, the ego, the neediness, and the injury. Yeah.

Joy Taylor with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The herd lie news. One of the least needy people I know via the Coward Global Satellite Network, former Jet and Brown coach, Eric Mangini, who could probably, you could be more needy and I'd be okay with it. You're pretty equipped to not deal with, to handle stress and stuff, and you've been with the Jets,

and you've been with the Browns and they play tonight. So let me start with this. I'm a believer that the football team, the Colts with Andrew Locke, the Eagles with Carson Wentz, and the Jets was Sam Darnold. They had veterans in-house, and they said, no, no, no, we're going to give the young kid the playbook in the franchise. Sometimes a team will tell me what they think of a quarterback.

Chicago's offensive game plans with Matt Trabisky, I mean, they are, that is like they're protecting him. The Jets are telling me, we think Donald's going to make mistakes and be okay with it. Am I overreeding the signals the Jets are sending me or the Eagles sent me with Wence? You're going to struggle as a rookie quarterback, but if a team sends you out there, you're telling me as a sportscaster, this kid's rock solid emotionally and physically. Well, I don't think they've really opened the playbook in New York. A lot of those completions, especially in the first game, were short completions.

They were three-step drops. there were some wide receiver screens. There were things to get him going. Now they've taken a few shots. They've mixed in some of those, which you would, because you want to be able to throw it on the field to some degree. But I haven't really seen them open it up extensively with Sam Darnold.

And it's going to be interesting tonight, Colin, because he's got to deal with a significant amount of pressure on a very short week how they're going to approach this. Yeah, Greg Williams, the defensive coordinator for the Browns, tends to be hyper-aggressive, so they'll be bringing all sorts of people from all sorts of angles tonight, short week, rookie quarterback on the road. All right, the Patriots go and trade for Josh Gordon. My gut feeling is it's not going to work long-term. I don't buy the comparisons to Randy Moss, who could be difficult, but I never thought was dysfunctional. How do you think

the Gordon-Belichick New England thing works out? Because he is a remarkably talented kid. Yeah, I see this, Colin, as purely a lottery ticket. So New England gives up a fifth. If he doesn't play 10 games, they get a seventh. So odds are New England's fifth will be a low fifth, and Cleveland's seventh will be a, you know, towards the top of the round. So maybe it's 50 or 60 picks if he doesn't work out at all. If he does work out, they've got a guy with tremendous ability at a time of the year where it's really hard to add anybody with ability at a position of need. The thing that's got to happen, though, is he's got to. to make the decision. There's going to be no one that's going to be shirpering him around and

staying with him and protecting him. And those things, he's got to perform and he's got to make the decision to do that. He had his best chance in Cleveland. Yeah. It's interesting. It's funny because Belichick this week actually, New England faces Matt Patricia in Detroit. Matt was, of course, a former assistant and now will face his mentor, Bill Belichick. You've been in this situation before where you have Bill's knowledge and you watch his system, and then you get the head job, and oh-oh, here comes Bill. This is probably fun for you tonight this weekend to watch the Lions Against the Patriots for you as a former Belichick disciple who then faced him.

It's probably fascinating. What was it like for you? What's it like for Matt Patricia? I love those games. It was exciting because he had so much inside knowledge on the team. We had so much inside knowledge on the checks, the thought process, the game planning, all those things. And it became a really like a chess match. I know we make that comparison a lot.

But you know what's going to trigger certain adjustments with them. They know what's going to trigger certain adjustments with you. It's who can disguise it better? Who can spring it on the other one at the right time? Now, that being said, as exciting as it is, it's also daunting because you realize how far the organization that you've taken over has to go to get to where they are. And I always looked forward to them. I remember my first one, we got a little bit bullied,

and we were collectively determined we weren't going to be bullied anymore. Yeah, so the Lions, Matt Patricia, hosting, playing the New England Patriots this weekend. So I was saying about John Gruden, and this was my question when he got the job, is that he was for 10 years a TV star. And so when you're a TV analyst, your job is to be interesting. And you get asked an average question, and your job is to give a better than average answer. And that is your role for a decade. And then you get a head coaching job.

And it's hard to shut that off. Now you give the media nothing. You want to be as dull as you possibly can. And I watch Gruden yesterday stepping it with Cleo Mac and he's extrapolating and going on and on. And I'm like, John, you're not a TV performer. You're a coach. Don't give anybody anything. To me, he is struggling in the thing we thought he'd be great with,

kind of the media stuff. Are you surprised? When he started talking about how hard it is to find elite pass rushers, I didn't know where he was going with that train of thought. I would imagine at that point you talk about how important is to play good, sound, collective defense, how playing better in the secondary can help your pass rush, how you can generate pass rush through pressures, how one person can't change the game and stay as far away from the individual pass thruster topic as you could.

Now, the only thing that I can imagine is at no point did he think that Khalil Mack was a real possibility in Oakland, in staying in Oakland, and in his mind that it just never was going to work so he can talk about pass rushes because that situation was just almost out of his control. Now, other people don't buy that, but maybe that's the way he views it. Finally, there's a new book out by Ian O'Connor. I know him. He's a good journalist. He writes good stuff, 350 sources, and he writes about Bill Belichick.

Are you going to read that book? Has it got a lot of juicy stuff in there? Are you going to read it? No. Why not? I'm not going to read that. Why not? Look, all these books that say that they're insiders and they've got so much information,

I respect it to some degree, but why is E. Ian O'Connor's book more insightful than anybody else's book? the people that are there have very rarely talk about the experience. And look, I'm not taking anything away from Eno Connor, but here's the prediction he made in 2000. I don't know if you remember this, Colin, but Patriots regret hiring Bill Belichick. So for now, for him to be the defining source or expert on what makes Bill tick

and what makes the organization tick, I think there's reservations about that from my perspective. So if I bought it for you for Christmas, you wouldn't read it? You know, I've got a bunch of the New England books that have been written over time. I haven't read any of them. Maybe someday, you know, 15, 20 years from now, I'll read them. Eric, Manjini, good talking to you, coach. Good to see you.

All right. Jets Browns, he coached them both. They play tonight. I like Cleveland in that football game. By the way, by the way, well, I'll tell you on their side. I made the biggest bet in the history of my life, and I will present it later. I'll just say that later in the show today. I've never bet $1,000 in a football game, a regular season football game. There'll be a presentation of it later in the show.

Also, Greg Cosell, top of the hour. Coming up next, though, there's, I mean, this Jimmy Butler thing, this Jimmy Butler thing's amazing. He's with a good team with two good players and a good coach. He wants out. He starts naming the teams. And it really, you know what, there's two type of guys. in the NBA. And I'll describe the type of guys there are. Two types. And Jimmy's one type. And it's not a type I like. And that is coming up next. Be sure to catch live editions of the

herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeard Radio app. Good stuff. Top of the hour. Greg CoSell. And one of the many reasons the John Gruden trade was not a good move. And that's top of the hour. I want to start with this, though. So yesterday at the end of our show, Joy, it was a big story. Jimmy Butler is one of the top 20 players, top 20 player on the NBA, not a top 10, but a top 20. Somewhere in that 14, 16, 18, good player. It's got an injury issue. Nobody wants to talk about it's real.

And anybody that's leaving a good company in Minnesota right now has got Carl Anthony Towns, good coach, Andrew Wiggins, decent bench. He wants out. I have questions. And I like Jimmy. I know Jimmy. I've had him on. He's a very good NBA player, top 20, not top 10. but here's what I've found through the years.

And this is something I've seen in the media a lot. I'm always suspicious of anybody in the media that wants to be the man, the great people want to be part of several great men. And this happens in the NBA. Jimmy Butler wants to go to the Clippers or the Knicks or the Nets because he wants to be the man. The smart guys in this league like D. Wade recruited players. players better than them, Shaq and LeBron.

Because D. Wade understood he doesn't need to be the man. D. Wade wants to be one of several great men because they win titles. Steph Curry recruited a player Kevin Durant who's better than him. Because Steph Curry doesn't have this insecurity, this need to be the man. Steph Curry wants to be one of several great men. They win championships. LeBron James, though he is the best player, so it's impossible for LeBron to recruit somebody better than him.

You don't think he's recruiting Kevin Durant right now in Golden State? Let me give you some sourcing. He is. LeBron's trying to get Durant from the Warriors to the Lakers. That's who he's going after. He went to D. Wade, Chris Bosch, Kyrie Irving joined him. Kevin Love. Could have gone for the rookie Andrew Wiggins.

He wanted a veteran all-star Kevin Love. The NBA's got two types of players. guy who wants to be the man. Guy that wants to be the man, if Jimmy Butler's the best player on your team, you're not going to be playing late May and June. And in the NBA, nobody watches the regular season. I've seen the ratings.

The Pro Bowl in the NFL gets three times the ratings of the NBA regular season. And nobody watches the first and second round of the playoffs. The ratings double and triple in late May and June. And the man, guys that have to be the man, and don't want to play with other great men aren't on TV then. By the way, Chris Paul joined a team with a player better than him. And by the way, then actively recruited another player, Carmela,

who offensively is more skill than him. This league is so easy to figure out. These guys, Russell Westbrook, everybody now suddenly loves Russell Westbrook because he recruited Paul George. Isn't it interesting that Russell Westbrook, recruited Paul George much more aggressively than Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant's better than Russell Westbrook.

Westbrook's insecure. He didn't want to be the second best player. He wants to be the man in OKC. But he goes out and recruits hard Paul George, who's not as good as Russell Westbrook, so he can remain the man. With Kevin Durant's 50-50 split, and frankly, all-time Kevin Durant's a better player.

This is what the league is. So the guys that I've always liked in the NBA, who has been a bigger fan than LeBron? Nobody. Who's been a bigger fan than Chris Paul? Dwayne Wade. The guys I always align with, Steph Curry, are guys that are secure enough in themselves that they don't have to be the man. They're part of several great men.

I mean, Steph Curry is like, I'm going to, I am right now a unanimous MVP. Top of the basketball world. I'm going to go get Kevin Durand, who's better than me. One of the three guys, two guys in the world are absolutely better than Steph Curry. LeBron. And Steph Curry is like, hey, Kevin, you want to come on the team? I'll shoot less. You'll be the finals MVP.

You'll be the go-to guy in big games. So whenever I see people that have this desperate need, you know, you see this all the time. Somebody's got a big shield. I'm the man. I'm authoritative. I'm the man. They're just hiding insecurity. The people that are comfortable working with other great talented people,

join the party, join the team, join the group. They're very secure people. They want others to succeed because they know who cares if you're the man in Brooklyn. You're going to leave Andrew Wiggins and Carl Anthony Towns for DeAngelo Russell? Really? What sign is that?

That team's going nowhere. You think you're going to beat Boston for the rest of your career? Toronto for the rest of your career? Philadelphia for the rest of your career? Milwaukee? I mean, at best, you're the fifth-best team. At best, I don't even think you're as good as Washington. Cracks me up.

And I like Jimmy, but this is classic, you know, everybody celebrates Russell Westbrook for recruiting Paul George. Why didn't you recruit Kevin Durant to stay? He's a way better player than Paul George. Because Kevin Durant is better than you. And you don't like that. By the way, Derek Rose, another guy who has been quoted saying, It's not my job to recruit.

Insecure. Not your job to recruit. Are you watching the current NBA? The best player in the world, Kevin Durant or LeBron James, are both recruiting people. They're both looking around at the best stops. I mean, Kevin Durant could have gone anywhere. Kevin Durant could have gone anywhere in this league. Anywhere.

He went to the team. What's Kevin Durant do better than anything else? Shoot. He's not the best defender, best rebounder, not the toughest guy. What does Kevin Durant do better than anything else he shoots? He is a great shooter. Kevin Durant was secure enough in himself to go, you know what? I'm going to go to the team that maybe as the only two people on earth who shoot better than me,

Steph and Clay. That is security. That is being comfortable and secure with yourself. I got to tell you something. This idea that Clippers are just like, oh, we've got to have Jimmy Butler. Look at his injury history. And if you're willing to leave Minnesota, that coach and those two players and that roster for Brooklyn, wow. That's not attracted.

That's good for Brooklyn. Yeah, I guess. That's a bad roster. That team doesn't have a history of attracting great other teammates. Bad move, Jimmy Bowler. I think literally, I like Jimmy Buller. I think less of him today. Leaving Minnesota for.

Now, the Clippers have some interesting pieces. And I get the L.A. thing. But Brooklyn? Do not get it. Thoughts on Aaron Rogers that I have not expressed yet today. John Gruden, the media can be kind of lazy. Take advantage of that if you're a football coach. Take advantage of an often distracted, apathetic, lethargic, lazy media.

John Gruden didn't. I'll explain. Coming up, hour two, Greg Co-Sell, Peter King, too today, The Herd. This is The Herd. hour number two, wherever you may be and however you may be listening. We're live in Los Angeles. Iheart Radio, Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Joy Taylor is joining me in five minutes or less.

Greg Cocell, who for my money, we call it the NFL meat sandwich. If you bet football, if you play fantasy football, if you love football and you want to get smarter, Greg CoSell comes on for about 10 minutes a week. We throw film out there. He will make you so much smarter. He has for me, since I've been. and putting him on the air for about the last five years. So he'll be joining us in a couple of minutes.

Let me start, Joy, though, with this. John Gruden yesterday stepped in it again. He was asked a question about Khalil Mack, about pass rushing. And here's John Gruden, once again, kind of stepping at it. And the media is just staying on this story, stand on this story, stand on this story about Khalil Mack, trading him for a couple of picks. Here's the media and Gruden yesterday. It's hard to find a great one.

It's hard to find a good one. It's hard to find one. you just said it. And, you know, college football now, they're not really dropping back to pass and throwing footballs anymore. They're throwing laterals and they're throwing bubble screens and they're running read options. So you've got to train these guys. It takes a little bit of time to learn how to rush the pastor. And we've got some guys that are in that process right now. And that was a disaster quote for Gruden because everybody went on the internet and said, dude, you're telling how hard it is to find one.

You had the best guy in the league with Von Miller and you let him go. And so he got crushed yesterday. Here's the danger that Gruden did in trading a superstar. By the way, the NFL draft is an inexact science. The best people in the league, Bill Belichick, have whiffed multiple times. Pete Carroll's great at it. He's had like one legit player in the last several drafts. I mean, big time guy.

It's hard. Drafting's hard. You know the best rookie I've seen this year? he's a linebacker that went in the second round of the Indianapolis Colts. Darius Leonard is the best rookie I've seen. He played football at South Carolina State, wherever that's at, somewhere in South Carolina. He had like 19 tackles this week. He's as good a rookie as I've seen.

He's unbelievable. He played in a college you never saw on television. Who has 19 tackles in a football game? That's like eight-man football. And he's dominant. And he went in the second round and you never saw him play. Some of this stuff, you didn't watch Kalil Mack play in college. Here's the thing.

Trading a superstar is dicey because the media will pay attention to superstars. The media is mostly lazy. I mean, in this business, 30 years. Most guys are lazy. They don't pay attention. Just the big headlines. Bill Belichick had a really bad trade a couple years ago and nobody's paid attention to it. He let go of Chandler Jones.

Chandler Jones goes to Arizona, but because most people don't watch the Arizona Cardinals play, he led the NFL in sacks. What could New England use right now? A pass rusher? They've got almost everything else. O-line, running backs, Tom Brady, Gronk, nice corners, decent safety, linebackers move, defensive interior linemen. They've upgraded.

They could use a pass rusher. They had Chandler Jones. They let him go. By the way, they got Jonathan Cooper a guard for that, and they cut him almost immediately. They got a second round pick. They traded down to a third round pick. Took Malcolm Mitchell.

They just waived him. They didn't get much for that trade, did they? but the media doesn't pay attention because Chandler Jones wasn't a superstar. That was a bad deal. The one thing New England needs, maybe Nick Foles doesn't throw for 8,000 yards, is a pass rusher. They could have used one against Blake Bortles, a pass rusher. They let one go, got nothing in return.

Not much anyway. But when you trade Khalil Mack, the media is going to pay attention to that. He's going to be on TV twice a year playing Aaron Rogers. He's an amazing talent, obviously. He's going to put up big numbers. The media is going to pay attention. NFL sack leaders right now, Chicago Bears. It's a proud big market.

Chicago, Fox's going to put them on a ton of times. If Chicago's good, they get on TV a lot. So when you trade a superstar, the often apathetic media pays attention, and he's going to be asked this question a lot. And yesterday, Gruden stepped in it once again. And with that, our NFL Meat Sandwich, over three decades working in NFL films. He is joining us now, Greg Kossel. I want to start with this.

the knee injury to Aaron Rogers. Now, the numbers were still very good against the Vikings defense. Did you think the knee injury, when you looked at film, Greg, had any impact on Aaron's play? Well, it did the way they play offense in terms of what they did in the past game. There was a lot of quick game throws. The ball came out quickly. Obviously, he didn't move very much, but they built that into the game plan. So the ball would come out.

He wouldn't sit in the pocket. Because what makes Rogers, what he normally is, is his late in the down ability, his ability to move within the pocket and out of the pocket. So they had to limit that by design because he couldn't do that. And the few times he tried to do it once or twice it worked, a couple of other times he got sacked. But that's what they did with their game plan because they had to make sure they accounted for the fact that he couldn't move very well. Good stuff.

Okay, so Tom Brady, Jacksonville's got very good personnel. Tom had a lot of trouble in the first three quarters. What are the Jags do that other people don't? See, I think this is a non-story, Colin. Because when all said and done, when I watched that tape, I thought Brady played well. And the stats actually bore that out. Do you know that Brady had that – again, this is a stat, but I'm just using this as an example because I actually thought he played pretty well,

given the defense he was playing against. He had the highest quarterback rating against the Jags. If you go back to all of last season, it would have been the high. highest quarterback rating against the Jaguars. Wow. So I think, to be honest with you, people are reacting to the score of the game and the fact that obviously the Patriots lost and they lost a big mostly because of their defense, but I don't think that Tom Brady and the passing game were the reason for it.

By the way, Josh Gordon is a remarkably talented guy. When you looked at New England footage and film over the years, does his ability fit their style? Could it work? Well, I think that any receiver with special ability, like Josh Gordon, fits any offense theoretically. What normally happens with receivers who come in like that, Colin, is they're given two or three routes. They're not given a whole route tree. They're not given the whole offense.

It's not necessary. It reminds me of Don Coriel years ago when he was at San Diego State, and he could bring in transfers. And this was back when they could play three days after you brought them in, and he'd give them three routes so they could line up on Saturday in college football. That's what they'll do with Josh Gordon. Okay. Let's segue to Carson Wentz returns from an injury, and he faces Andrew Luck. These are two of my absolute favorite young quarterbacks.

You know, going forward, if I said project going forward, how do you think it's going to work? Is there one you prefer more than the other? Is for which quarterback? Yeah. Oh, I would say skill set-wise. relatively similar. What I think that Wendt brings to the Eagles now, which Nick Foles does not, is I think you'll see the Eagles, even with a limited wide receiver core, I think Wentz it's in his

DNA to be aggressive and push the ball down the field. That's what the Eagles were lacking. Plus, Wence is so good at a young age before the snap of the ball. He is, yeah. He is so good pre-snap. And then, of course, you always have to validate post-snap because the defense changes and moves. but he's so advanced in that regard.

He had a number of big plays last year where he saw something pre-snap, made a change, and then post-snap had to make a change as well. That's really difficult to do, particularly when he was in his second season. Luck is another guy who's big, I think Wendz is, despite the fact that Wence is an aggressive thrower, with that kind of mindset,

I think he's less risky a thrower than Andrew Luck. Andrew Luck still has some interceptions that are head scratchers, Again, I can't say what Carson Winswell do this Sunday, but I don't think he plays like that. Yeah. Yeah, I thought Andrew had one bad pick against the Redskins. I'm not anti-pick, but I thought he had a bad one. It's to DJ Squaringer.

I know exactly the player talking about. So Ryan Fitzpatrick is he's had these streaks, and right now he's on one of these two gamers. How much is real? How much is scheme? How much is personnel? Like when you watch this tape, and if you didn't know Ryan Fitzpatrick, you just watched their game. Does he get the credit, the personnel, the schemes? What's happening in Tampa? Well, I think it's all of that because I think Dirk Cutter is doing a really,

really good job with the offense. Don't forget, you can make the argument that their skill position players, particularly the receiving core, including tight end, is top three in the league. They've got O.J. Howard and Cameron Brayde at tight end. They've got Godwin, Jackson, Evans, at wide receiver. This is high-level talent now. And Mike, Evans ate up Marshawn Lattimore, week one. I don't think most people probably thought that would happen. So then when he's dialing up zone-beater concepts, and they're getting zone coverage. So everything is working perfectly. It's a perfect positive storm. And what Fitzpatrick is doing, which he's always been erratic with in his career, is right now he's throwing the ball with

excellent accuracy. He's had stretches in his career where his accuracy has been not the case right now. I like that you're acknowledging, and the film is acknowledging, that Tampa's got real good players. It's almost like the Brown's defense. When you're bad for several years, you get good draft picks, and Cleveland's defense and Tampa's offense, there's dudes here. Absolutely. And the Eagles game was a really intriguing game because the Eagles chose to play a certain way defensively, and the Bucks just kind of ate them up. It would actually with short passes because the Eagles played with their corners with a big cushion.

and there were so many quick game throws that negated the Eagles pass rush. Pete Carroll said this week, this kind of landed wrong for me that Russell Wilson is he's overtrying. What does that mean, by the way? I mean, I never watched that game Monday and said, you know, the problem with Seattle is Russell's overtrying. He seemed like he was running for his life. What did the tape say? This is my feeling watching their tape through the first two games. Number one, I think they have to truly commit to running the football.

And when a team commits to running the football, in my view, you have to decide who your back is. I don't think you can commit to a running game and have running back by committee. Or Rashad Penny, who I think the organization prefers, either one, it's okay. But you have to commit to running the ball with one back. The other guy can spell him here and there, but you can't have a committed running game with two backs getting 10 carries. You've got to pick a back. Secondly, I think that Russell Wilson, first two games of the season, and it's easy to rip the offensive line. But there's too many plays in which Wilson is breaking down too early

and prematurely in the pocket, and that disrupts the timing of the past game. Now, if he makes an unbelievable play, we all get excited. But when they don't get made, the past game has no rhythm and timing to it. By the way, Khalil Mack has obviously had an impact on the bears. What's the tape say? How big of an impact? Well, the impact. Now offenses, think of it this way. there's five eligible receivers on every play, correct, for the offense? If you have to keep one or two of them to block, whether you do that where they stay there, or even if they're just going to chip and then release late, what you're doing is you're losing the numbers game as an offense right off the bat, because now you're just sending out three receivers immediately into routes.

So it's purely numbers. Mac and Floyd by extension limits the number of eligible. receivers that can go out into routes and therefore that limits the passing game concepts. I want to talk about a guy who right now, if you voted MVP, would win Patrick Mahomes. Listen, he's been on fire. Before we get to the play, just watching as a consumer, he's got tremendous arm talent. Now that's no question. So did Jeff George.

But there are guys in this league. Cam Newton's got great armed talent. There are guys in this league, though, that pop. Jay Cutler. You just watch it and you're like, wow. Aaron Rogers. Sure. So that part, that part's obvious.

We know that part. Okay. So what else do you see? Well, I think for the most part, he's been very poised and composed. I do have to give this caveat. And again, it takes nothing away from a Holmes. It just inflates his numbers. He's obviously played well through two weeks.

But the numbers were inflated this week because I have to tell you what the film showed. Pittsburgh made more mistakes on defense than I think I've seen one team make in a given game. And it was just, it was tough to watch. I mean, Mike Tom won't addressed it, they'll take care of some of that, but that just inflated Mahomes' numbers. But he's obviously a great thrower of the football. And keep in mind, Andy Reid has always been very good at designing past game concept. And that's what he does exceptionally well. And, you know, I think when those work, then the quarterback always looks really good.

But Mahomes obviously has special arm talent. So let's go finally to, you call it your one big play. Let's talk about it. We'll roll it when you decide to roll it and then give our TV audience this play. This was executed beautifully. Let's run the plane now and let's start it. And what this was, this was the touchdown that put them ahead. And it was a seam ball to Kelsey. And basic stuff, there's Mahomes in the gun. They were an empty. And by the way, they weren't empty a lot and were very effective. So what do you see? You see safeties that are split safeties. So what does that mean the middle of the, now they want Travis Kelsey on the seam. But now Chris Connolly is,

critical here because he has to run vertically as well because he has to control the safety on that side to prevent him from working into the middle. You can see the middle of the field is wide open. So that safety needs to be controlled. What Pat Mahomes throws throw to Kelsey has to beat the safety on the other side because if he waits too long, the safety on the other side becomes a factor in the throw. So he has to throw this ball with anticipation and obviously we know he has tremendous But there's a pretty routine play. Middle of the field open, you hit the seam. Middle of the field closed, that throw would not be there if it was a single high safety.

So this is pretty basic stuff and just executed really well. By the way, Kelsey is such an advantage to have a tight end who can run that seam, go right through it with speed. He's a tough match linebackers I can see have trouble with Kelsey. He's fast. He's athletic and he's big. It's funny you say that really well is what we call the flood concept, which is or a three-level stretch, which is three routes to one side of the field, short, intermediate vertical, and he's very good breaking down zone defenses with that.

Good stuff. Greg Kosel, 30-plus years, NFL films. Thanks, Greg. Thanks, Colin. Rob Parker, Peter King, both joining us today. Coming up next, sometimes, you know, there's an old saying, don't jump over a $20 bill to grab a $5 bill. And I think Packers fans are doing that coming up next. shopping can be confusing. Go to Truecar.com new or used. It's not. It creates clarity.

Save three grand. On average, off MSRP. Something that's frustrating, probably to you and me, when somebody doesn't get the big picture, they get caught up in the details and the minutia in the moment. They live in the moment, and they don't see the big picture, and they're fighting over something. Somebody's fighting over a little thing that doesn't really matter in the big picture, and they don't get the holistic approach to. a life. Green Bay Packer fans, smallest NFL community, it's almost a college town, are living

in a tunnel right now. So they're all freaking out about this call against Clay Matthews, a call that will benefit them going forward. So here's what we know. The two best pass rushes in the NFL right now are arguably the Bears and the Vikings. And they're in your division. And the next four years, you're going to face them eight times. Seven more actually, because you've already faced him once and Aaron already got hurt once. Let me give you some facts, Packer fans. Fact. Aaron Rogers has a partial tear.

Fact. He's not a really big guy. Fact. He's had several injuries in his career. Fact. We saw you without him last year. You're the Cleveland Browns. Those are four facts you can't dispute. You're getting all worked up

because the NFL has now instituted a rule that should have been around 25 years ago, which is 300 pound defensive guys shouldn't be able to grab a quarterback and drive their body into the ground to hurt him. That rule should have been in 30 years ago. The idea that you're getting all worked up, this rule, you're going to benefit from this rule far more. Tribisky's young has never really been hurt.

Kirk Cousins doesn't have an injury history. Your guy does. meaning when you get into your mid-30s, and by the way, Kirk Cousins is in his 20s, and Trubisky's in his early 20s, and your body rebounds from injuries. Green Bay, you have the older quarterback, closing in on 34-35. You have the quarterback with injuries.

And when your body gets hurt over and over and over, it is more susceptible to injuries. You have the quarterback, Aaron Rogers, and the franchise that won't spend money on free agents on the offensive line, keep them to protect him. I mean, the Bears went out and spent money on Khalil Mack. The Vikings went out and spent a fortune on players. They just gave one of their wide receivers a fortune.

Green Bay doesn't like to keep offensive linemen who are elite. They don't want to pay for them. They've let several good ones go. This rule is to benefit you. So what did it cost you that Clay Matthews penalty? Half a game. Really? As I said earlier, you see law enforcement do this all the time.

Before a holiday weekend when people drink. drink more and they're on the road, they set up DUI checkpoints. And the reason law enforcement does that to get in everybody's head, think twice about that third glass of wine, think twice about that fourth or fifth beer. That's what law enforcement does. They put up checkpoints. They want to get in your head. What the NFL's doing with Clay Matthews is week two, week three, week four, we're calling

this stuff. We're going to overcall, arguably overcall this stuff to protect Aaron Rogers in week eight and Brady in week nine and Big Ben in week 10 and Matt Ryan in week 11 and Russell Wilson and Cam. It's remarkable to me that the rule was created to protect guys like Aaron Rogers little smaller than average. History of getting hurt, getting into their mid-30s, move around a lot and get hit. And you're whining about it? You should be cheering the NFL. It cost you half a game. Last year, I hit on Aaron Rogers cost you how many games you missed seven? Now that's the season in the NFL. You can't overcome that. Joy Taylor

with the news. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. So as we know, Antonio Brown was not present at the team facility on Monday for the Steelers, and he replied to a tweet saying that his success was due to Big Ben

by saying, trade me, let's find out. Well, Tomlin met with Antonio Brown and said that there would be some discipline to him not being there on Monday, even though he was at practice yesterday. And now Antonio Brown has met with the media, he had this to say. But obviously I don't want to be trade.

You know, I'm still grateful to put on my uniform. Grateful to be a part of this organization. You know, I don't take that for granted. Obviously, it was a stupid remark online. I just got to stay away from online with the distractions and letting people get in me out of my character. It's not just a game to me and cash in checks. Money don't matter.

You know, I look at my assignments and my performance. That means a lot to me. Obviously, it's a distraction when you're writing guys on Twitter. on Twitter and my teammates got an answer about it and you know you guys making headlines I want to be traded man I'm nothing but grateful for this organization that took a chance on me and give me an opportunity to live out my dream so anytime it's a pawn and upon my teammates as I'm a guy who don't appreciate them or I'm a guy who'm not trying to win or I'm this guy in the media you guys make out the V then it is a distraction because my business is winning and

playing football and that's what I'm here to do you know the thing about the distraction deal is that's not going anywhere. People are always going to tweet at you. People are always going to comment in the comment section. They're always going to have something to say. And that's not new just because of social media. People had things to say before there was social media. They just yelled them at you or wrote letters instead of tweeting. You have to be above that. Antonio Brown is not a rookie. He's not college kids. He's into this eighth season. I think Twitter's a rough place for really highly emotional people. But you have to understand that and just eliminate it from your life.

He's talking about how many hours he takes away from his family to focus on football and focus on winning. And I'm sure it is frustrating. Everything is frustrating and everything is a distraction when you're losing. We know that. This is not unique to the Steelers. Every organization, this is what happens. It's one thing. And then it just derails into everything being an issue.

But you've got to just eliminate that. If you know social media is an issue for you. you and your team. Then take it out of your life. You have to remove it. You just have to. Or regulate it or find some way to just not get, just don't read your mentions. I think that's nothing in there good.

You know what? What cracks me up about Twitter, there's a mute button. And it's the greatest thing ever created. You can mute people. So they yell at you and have no idea that you can't read it. I'm, I bet you I've muted, muted 500 people. You're kind. I just block people.

I block everything. I think it's funnier to mute them. So they scream and they have no idea. They're yelling and screaming. thinking they're just mute people. Get creeps and jerks out of there. Oh, just don't read it at all. Like, it's not unique to Antonio Brown.

It's not unique to the Steelers. It's not just the NFL. It's every person everywhere. It's not even unique to people who are in the spotlight. People are going to be critical of you. There's no reason to respond to that. So, I mean, the whole distraction thing. And also, the media is not out to, like, create distractions.

I very much want the Steelers to win the Super Bowl this year, just to be clear. I'm in the media. That's what I want. Not hiding that bias at all. That's who I picked. So Carson Wentz will return to the field for the first time this week. And, oh, well, since his entry, obviously. And Carson Wentz has said this on his expectations for his first game back.

Yeah, I mean, I think just to a pick up where we left off as an offense, you know, we had a lot of big plays last year. We were in situational football, third down, red zone. Those things we were really excelled in last year. And those are things we want to just keep building on. You know, we expect to go and start fast, play fast, be clicking. And so I truly believe that's a realistic. expectation.

So they're playing the Colts this week. What are your expectations for Carson Wentz? I think Indianapolis is better than people think, and I think Carson Wentz will be good, but a tad rusty. I think it's going to end up being, if I'd have told you before the season, Eagles Colts, you think blowout. I think it's a very close game. I think he's going to have a couple bumps and bruises in game one.

So do I. I wouldn't be surprised if he throws two interceptions, and that's not the end of the world. By the way, one of the reasons I like Andrew Luck, He's willing to make mistakes. One of the reasons I like Sam Darnold, he's willing to make mistakes. One of the reasons I like Carson Wentz. Like these guys I love, I love Wence, I love Darnold, I love Luck. They throw picks.

Peyton Manning through picks. But I don't like, Alex Smith drives me crazy. He throws no picks. So Carson Wins, this is one of the things that stop overreacting to every interception. Andrew Luck had two last week. One was awful. One was just trying to make a play. And Wence is a guy that's going to throw the ball down the field and try to make plays.

And I'm okay with that. I don't think that they're going to simplify the offense or change anything like that for once, though. Like that part of it is not an issue. That's not his DNA. Right. Or just playing scared in general. Finally, I don't know how I feel about this news. So, you've seen Space Jam, obviously.

No. I've never seen Space Jam. What is it? I have never seen Raging Bull. I have never seen Space Jam. You've never seen Space Jam? I've never seen Space Jam. Okay.

Well, all right. But, okay, so Space Jam exists. I never watched any of the karate kids. What? I don't watch them. Wax on, wax off. You've never seen any of the karate kids? I had a girlfriend. I didn't watch those kind of movies. Oh, here we go.

All right. You don't watch Game of Thrones either, right? I don't watch Game of Thrones. I don't watch Game of Thrones is excellent. All right. Well, LeBron, I just started watching that. It's great. We love that show. We're on, like, episode 5 already. Okay, so Space Jam 2 is happening. Okay.

LeBron announced it yesterday. There's been talks about this for about five years. He sent out a tweet, with the Bugs Bunny Locker and Ryan Couglo directed Black Panther is going to be producing it as well. And obviously Navar Carter is involved also. So I don't know how to feel about it. I do think LeBron is a good actor. Yeah.

So I think it's going to be funny, but I'm very attached to the original Space Jam. And obviously I'm a Michael Jordan seller. Who is in the original one? Bugs Bunny. Michael Jordan. Okay. That was the. All right.

Colin. I didn't. Okay. I can't explain the. the storyline. But basically, okay, I came real quick. Michael Jordan is playing baseball, Bugs Bunny. They kidnap all the Looney Tunes.

These aliens kidnapped the Looney Tunes and they need to beat them in a basketball game in order to not have to go be like space slaves. And you think you're disappointed that I didn't rush to the theater to watch that? So they recruit Michael Jordan to play on the Looney Tunes basketball team

and beat the Monstars. The Monstars stole all the power from Charles Barkley and other NBA greats. So Space Jam too. I'm going to need to see Charles Barkley. I'm going to need to see Bill Murray again. Bill Murray's in it also. People are bragging that they went and watched this movie. We need to see Lola Bunny and I expect an excellent soundtrack. I think that movie ruined Blockbuster Videos business. That is not even a watchable movie. What do you mean? I was Lola Bunny for Halloween last year. I was also Larry David. So I balanced it out. Space Jam 2. And I've never seen a Raging Bull, which is supposed to be one of the five best movies.

I've never seen Raging Bull either. Joey Taylor with the news. That's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lie News. Jets Browns tonight, here's the biggest difference between the NFL and the NBA. Tonight, I am going to run home, get a quick workout in, sit down to watch this game. Jets Browns, because I may see Baker Mayfield and I will see Sam Darnel.

The NBA equivalent of this is the Brooklyn Nets and Orlando Magic and me running home to watch Mo Bamba. is the Memphis Grizzlies and the Sacramento Kings me running home to watch Deeran Fox. Whenever I hear, oh, the NBA this and the NBA that, are you kidding me? Like, you can come into the NFL as a rookie and be a star. The only NBA rookie I really wanted to see last year was Lonzo Ball. And I don't think he's going to start for the Lakers this year.

I think Rondo will beat him out. Jason Tatum I was interested in. He was better than I thought. but frankly wouldn't have played much if Gordon Hayward didn't get hurt. Donald is good enough that they traded Teddy Bridgewater. Tatum wasn't good enough that they traded Gordon Hayward. Whenever I hear these NFL coaches say, you know, that some of these guys aren't ready to play. No, no, no.

College players aren't ready to play in the NBA. The NFL, what makes it is tonight that Sam Darnold could face Baker Mayfield and both will be good enough to make plays and start for $2 billion dollar franchises. I mean, there may be a guy a year out of the college draft that goes to the NBA that makes an impact. And I got news for you. None of them are making an impact in June. Jason Tatum would not have made that impact if Gordon Hayward didn't get hurt and Kyrie Irving didn't get hurt. He made it because they had nobody else that could score.

And he did a good job with Brad Stevens. But don't be shocked if he's not as valuable as you think this year because Kyrie and Gordon Hayward are doing a lot of the scoring. But the NFL, I mean, when you look around the NFL, when I hear the NFL coaches say, well, this guy's not ready, and John Gruden saying college quarterbacks aren't ready for the NFL. Yeah, they are. Carson Wentz was ready and Andrew Luck was ready. And Jared Goff, year two, is excellent. And Patrick Mahomes is now ready to go.

And Sam Darnold is ready. And maybe tonight Baker Mayfield, if he plays, I think he'll be ready. I don't buy that at all. These young quarterbacks, when they're special, are ready. I'm still waiting for Andrew Wiggins to pop. we're five years in. I'm still waiting for that thing to pop. Can't wait for tonight, Jets Browns.

Rob Parker's around the corner. Statt or real stat or bulls stat. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Tonight on Thursday night football, rookie Sam Darnold and the Jets take on the Browns exclusively on the NFL network. And starting in week four, Fox becomes the new network home to Thursday night football when the Vikings battle. Jared Goff, Todd Gurley, and the two-and-o.

Ooh, we got good games coming up, baby. That could be the game of the year. It's the NFC championship game on Fox. I cannot wait to watch the night's game on the NFL network. And with that, we bring in Rob Parker, columnist, the FS1 instigator to the show. I like the new set. I could give you a high-five. I could actually reach you.

No more couch. Now we have individual chairs. Is that because I left gum on the couch the last time I was here? You know, is that what we did? Basically, as we started the next football season, we consider September Labor Day the start of a new year for us. This is my – this is my – let's see, one, two – this is my fourth – third or my fourth football season at FS1. And so we just said, I wanted to come down a little bit. I wanted to move Joy in closer.

The couch was kind of awkward. We wanted chairs. And look at this thing. It's just beautiful. Very, very professional. Graphics look good. Look at that. Look at the very professional.

All right, it's time to play a game. We play every couple of weeks. A real stat or bull stat. So do you read it, John? Who's reading the call? Joy Taylor. Joy reads the question. We either buy into it real stat.

I'm the bull stat host. Or it's just a bunch of bull stat. So go ahead, Joy. All right. So I'm going to give you an NFL stat, which is 100% true. Okay. And if you think it matters, you say real stat. If you think it doesn't matter, you call it bull stat.

Play along, audience. Here we go. Yes. Okay. So let's start with tonight's Thursday night matchup between the Jets and the Browns. Okay. So before the season, there was a lot of debate of whether the Jets should start rookie quarterback Sam Darnold.

Yeah. Well, check this out. Sam Darmill has already set an NFL record. He has the most passing yards ever by a 21-year-old quarterback in his first two games. He beat out 13 other quarterbacks who started at that age. So Rob, is this proof that choosing Sam Darnold as a jet starter was the right move? Real stat or bull stat? That's a real stat.

I mean, he's out the box. And I think he is who we thought he was going to be. I don't know how anybody could have thought. that this guy wasn't going to be an NFL quarterback. Would you pay to watch him? Absolutely. He's one of a few players. I'm always interested when he's on the screen, and I would pay to go watch him play.

I believe it's a real stat. I think he's going to have a lot of lumpy games. Carson Wentz had a couple of real duds in his first year. But to your point, what it tells me is by throwing with a bad old line, no running backs, no tight ends, and okay receivers, the jets are letting him throw, are taking them chances, little downfield stuff.

So I agree with Rob. This stat is a real stat. You agree that Sam Darnold is the real thing, Colin. To Rob's point, also, I trust my eyes. When he's on the field, like Carson Wentz and Andrew Luck, their rookie ears. Absolutely. I want to watch the games. I want to watch.

Absolutely. I can't remember the last time I wanted to watch a Jets quarterback. Thank you. Seriously. I also like Lumpy as a description for how a game went as well. Yeah. A couple Lumpies. Yes.

So there's a quarterback controversy brewing in Tampa. now that Ryan Fitzpatrick has been near perfect while subbing in for James Winston. And here's how good Ryan Fitzpatrick has been. He is the only quarterback in NFL history to record eight passing touchdowns and more than 800 passing yards in the first two weeks of a season.

So, Colin, does this mean Ryan Fitzpatrick should remain the team starter when Winston returns from suspension, real stat or bull stat? Bull stat. What? You think this is going to last? You think this is going to last?

You drafted James Winston Now immature, yes He was getting better every single year I put him on the shelf forever Now immature absolutely One more chance Max and gone Absolutely You think this is going to last

It's not whether or not I think it's going to last I'm not going to prematurely stop it So it's a real stat From the standpoint of you know how sports works You play the guy who has the hot hand Right now he's playing out of this world until the glass slipper breaks, then I'm not going to take,

I'm not going to prematurely take out a guy who's playing well because, oh, no, let's put the other guy in because he was suspended and now he's back and ready to play. So I don't buy into that. I think you've got to play that guy until he proves to me again that he doesn't deserve to play. Fair enough. I'm agreeing with Rob today.

Oh, wow. I am. Boy, that's very nice. Also, I mean, the strength is in the beard. It's like Samson. You know? It wasn't much power in that beard, the previous ten.

That's right. He's going to come back down to Earth, but he's playing out of his mind right now. And James Winston is not coming back from an injury. He's coming back from suspension. So if nothing else, you're going to pick what's not dysfunctional and is playing well for now. All right. So the hottest receiver on the Giants is not O'Dell Beckham Jr., but in fact is Sequin Barclay. So check this out.

In week two against the Cowboys, Giants rookie running back, Sequin Barclay, set the franchise record for the most receptions in a game with 14. The most receptions O'Dell has ever had in a game is 12. So Rob, does this mean that Sequin is a more valuable receiver than O'Dell? Real stat or bull stat? Bull stat. So ridiculous. What, Dinkin and Duncan and that's a safety vow. Hey, here you go for two yards.

That's not an impact receptions that he's made. I'm not buying into that. I don't care how many he had. I think it's a real stat for the time being until their offensive line becomes more cohesive. Odell can't go deep because the line doesn't protect an immobile Eli. So for the short term, I think it's a real stat, I think, it's a real stat that you better figure out Saquan because if you notice with O'Dell

it's all slants because they don't trust that offensive line. For the time being it's a real stat. Yes, I agree with you, Colin. Finally Sunday, it's Patriots Lions. The matchup we've all been waiting for. Bill Belichick faces his former defensive coordinator Matt Patricia. We tried to find one stat that gives Detroit some hope.

So here's what we found. When Bill Belichick coaches against one of his former assistants, his win percentage actually drops. 7%. Now that drop is from 77. to 70, but it is a drop. So, Colin, should this give the line some hope when they play the Patriots on Sunday? Real stat or bull stat?

Bull stat. First of all, what's the difference between a 77-year-old and a 70-year-old? It hurts when they go to the bathroom. It's the same thing. It's the same. 77 and 70 is the same age. So you're telling me he wins 77% of the time or 70. That's just a rounding error.

That doesn't mean anything. It's a real stat. Come on, Colin. 77 and 70. You want to make 77 million or you want to make 70 million? Doesn't it make a difference? Not really. But I want to say this, though.

Everybody's counting the lions out. I'm actually picking the Lions to win this game outright. They're a desperate team. If they don't win this game, Colin, the season will be over. The Lions and Matthew Stafford will take advantage of that bad defense of the paths. By the way, you don't call him Matt Stafford. You call him Stad Patford. And you know what?

I've been talking about this. I want you to see, for the first time I'm introducing the Stap Patford index. Okay? Take a look at the padded stats that Matt Stapford had. This is what you do it, Colin. In the fourth quarter with less than 10 minutes to go, right? And your team down by two touchdowns. All of your stats come out of your final stats.

And then you get the real numbers at the end. So see what Matt Stafford did when they were down by more than 14 with 10 minutes to go? Yeah. He had 181 yards, two touchdowns, had a passer rating of almost 116. So take out the padded stats. So take those padded stats out. And your real stats are still okay. No, but they're not nearly as good as they were with those padded stats.

We saw Tom Brady do the same thing. He added those other stats. Oh, stop. And that game against the Jacksonville Jaguar. He did have a couple of completions late in that game. They were. You're saying that Matt Stafford just, you know, piles it on during garbage time. He does.

That's why he has the nickname. And for the first time in 10 years, and you agree with me, he's never had a signature win. That's my knock on him. Am I right? Never. That's my knock on Statford. That he doesn't have a single signature win in a decade. So are you sure you're only, you're not picking them just because everyone, Detroit is mad at you for always picking against the lines?

Is this your signature? win. This is my signature win. Or is it just that you hate Tom Brady and the Patriots so much. No, I know. Everybody in Boston thinks that's the reason I'm picking the lines and everybody in Detroit can't believe I'm picking the line. But I just think this. Matthew Stafford should be able to abuse the Pat's defense and their season is on the line. You notice, Colin, you go 0 and 3 in that division. You're done. Bears are good. Aaron Rogers and the Packers are good and so are the Vikings. So the season's over if you don't win. Rob Parker, Chris Broussard, I have a new show The Odd Couple.

That is on Fox Sports Radio, IHeart Radio, every night at 7 to 10 Eastern. Congrats on that. Thank you so much. Peter King around the corner, hour three, it's the herd. Hour three live. This is the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening. We're in Los Angeles.

Iheart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. Joy Taylor is joining me for hour number three. This may be our best hour. I'm very excited for this. hour. I'm very excited for the Jets and Browns tonight. I really am. These Thursday games are way better this year. Next weekend we get Rams Vikings. That's the debut game on Fox, which kind of feels like the NFC championship game. Usually the first couple of years, you just got dead games. These are really good games. So you ready to go, Joy? Good last hour? Let's do it. Okay, in 15 minutes. Peter King is stopping by for his weekly

hit. I love that we get Peter in the last hour. He's got some really strong opinions on the Josh Gordon moved to the New England Patriots. myself do not think it works. Later in best for last, I will unveil, I will officially lock up my $1,000 bet. I've never made a $1,000 bet in the NFL. Regular season game I feel so strongly about, I will lock it up in best for last. But first, tonight, very excited. Sam Darnold takes center stage again tonight for the Jets.

So let me start with this. You know, as a parent, nobody wants to be seen as a bad parent. And, I mean, right, it's like that's what people judge you on years later, not how much you made, not what you did. What do your kids turn out to be like? And if your kids are schmucks, your views are schmuck. And I don't know how good I am as a parent, but I've always thought a really important thing is the amount of responsibility I can give my kids at an early age will sort of be the grading system. If at 27 years old, I'm still doing my son's laundry, I failed as a parent. If at 26 years old, I don't trust my daughter to go to Europe with a friend by herself,

I failed as a parent. I don't know necessarily what makes a great parent and a bad parent. But holding their hand, I know, doesn't create a strong, independent kid. And that's what we're all trying to create. They can do things for themselves. They don't need mommy and daddy in their mid-20s. So tonight Sam Darnold's going to play, and Sam Darnold's going to struggle because Cleveland has real defensive players. When you're bad for a long time and you draft the defensive side well, you've got good players.

And the Jets, their defense isn't bad, but offensively they have nothing outside of Darnold. Offensive line, bottom two in the league. Running backs could be the worst. Tight ends, absolutely the worst. Wide receivers, little talent, kind of flaky guys, get hurt, have problems. okay, not great, at times, depending on health, pretty bad. Sam Donald's going to struggle tonight. Short week in Cleveland, rookie quarterback.

But the Jets are telling you, we think he's physically and emotionally capable of it. And that's the win. Carson Wentz, nobody would deny, has been an A-plus draft pick. He's a stud. He plays this week. He's a stud. And they just threw Carson Wentz out there. That's all I needed to know from Doug Peterson and Howie Roseman.

They had somebody else who'd played in the NFL. They traded him. The Jets had Teddy Bridgewater, and they traded him. Carson Wentz, by the way, like Sam Donald, had an amazing, amazing first game. And then in Carson Wentz, rookie years, from weeks four to 14, he was two and nine, had way more picks than touchdowns, and his passer rating was terrible. it was like 72. Carson Wentz's rookie year.

He had a couple of great weeks, and he went into the toilet. But they didn't pull him, and they were never worried, and that's for an A-plus quarterback. Against Minnesota, 52-passer rating, two picks. Against Cincinnati, three picks and a 58-passer rating. And he's an A-plus guy, and he was awful in a couple of those early games. And so was Andrew Luck with the Colts. he was awful. And Sam Darnold, tonight and next week against Jacksonville has an opportunity.

He could be awful. Short week on the road, Brown's defense. But the Jets with Darnold and the Eagles with Wents and the Colts with luck, they're telling you we trust our kids. When I look at these young quarterbacks, the coaching staffs tell me what they think of the player. I don't have to watch practices. with Carson Wentz. I don't have to watch practices with Andrew Luck.

I don't have to watch practices with Sam Darnold. Sam Darnold's going to struggle tonight, but with He Luck and Wence, the staff is telling you, he had a veteran in house. Nah, he can not only physically handle it, he can mentally, if he struggles, handle it. That's all I need to know,

all I need to know about Sam Darnel. Let me shift to this. John Gruden stepped in it again. Anybody listening to my show? show today that's ever been a waitress or a waiter in your life. Anybody listening to me, I worked in a restaurant as a kid. Did you, Joy? I worked in many restaurants. Okay. So if you go to a restaurant after you quit doing that, so you're a waiter, a waitress, and your teens, early 20s, and then you go do other stuff.

Joy did that and did that other stuff. What happens is every time you go to a restaurant after that, you still, when you're done with the meal, kind of clean the table up for the waiter or the waitress. Start pre-busing? You pre-bus. Right. You, you kind of clean the table up for them. Because it's sort of hard to turn that off. It's in you. And it was in you for eight to ten years. So John Gruden yesterday once again stepped in it.

He was asked a question about a pass rush. And John Gruden gave a long answer and this avenue and that exit and started talking and kept talking and here it is. It's hard to find a great one. It's hard to find a good one. It's hard to find one. You just said it. You know, college football now, they're not really dropping back to pass and throwing footballs anymore.

They're throwing laterals and they're throwing bubble screens and they're running read options. So you've got to train these guys. It takes a little bit of time to learn how to rush the pastor. And we've got some guys that are in that process right now. That could have been a very quick answer. John Gruden did not have to give that long of an answer because that answer became, the story yesterday in the NFL. Hey, coach, you had a great one. You let him go. But when you hire a TV analyst who for 10 years is a performer like Joy was a waitress for a decade, when Joy goes to the

restaurant after quitting waitressing, she starts pre-bussing because it's hard to turn that off forever. John Gruden for a decade was a TV performer. You don't mumble. You don't give short answers. You explain, you define, you give long answers, and it's hard to turn that off. He has still got television analyst in him, and he keeps stepping in it because he believes he has to give a TV answer. No, no, no. Bill Belichick yesterday was asked a question about a book about him. It's got all sorts of juicy details. It's a biography on Bill Belichick. It's the talk of the NFL. But Bill's never been a TV analyst and would probably be a lousy one and felt no need to perform for the media. Bill, a biography of me was coming out this month when you didn't participate.

I was curious why. Because I don't have anything to do with it. Focus right now in Detroit, 2018 football season. Like, you try to do a good job on that. The football coach who's been a performer is still performing. and this is why I always had questions about John Gruden. He's not just a football coach. He's a television star, and he was damn good.

He's a football coach now. But he is struggling to turn off the TV star performer. Belichick, who's never been won, here's the question. He turned it on mute. No reason to give the media an inch. There's a big difference. It's hard enough to be out of this sport for 10 years.

But Groon's going to have to figure this out because he stepped again yesterday, set himself up to be ripped because he started talking about how hard it is to find pass rushers. Yeah, you just had the world's best and you let him go. John, reel it back in. More coach. Less performer. Peter King is right around the corner. He's got strong opinions on the Patriots. trading for Josh Gordon.

Some really strong opinions and thoughts from Peter King coming up next. Want more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Don't be the guy in the room with a long, sloppy looking on tuck shirt on tucket.com. Made to fall at the perfect length. Code is heard 20% off called perfection by GQ. We get him every week.

Love that he is joining us. now, all sorts of opinions this week. Football Morning in America by Peter King at NBCSports.com via the Coward Global Satellite Network. So the Patriots go and get Josh Gordon. I do not get the comparisons with Randy Moss, Peter. I think there's a big difference between difficult and I would term Josh overly dysfunctional.

I thought Moss could be difficult, but I never thought Randy was a guy that you didn't know if he'd show up for work. What did you make of the Patriots getting Josh Gordon? I mean, it's the ultimate act. of desperation. You know, Josh Gordon really hasn't contributed in a major way to the Browns in almost five years. I mean, he played five games at the end of last year, but basically in the last four seasons, he's played, I think, six games of the last 51 Browns games. So I just, I mean, to me, this decision was made because the Patriots have not done a, the wide receiver

position. They let Brandon Cooks go because he was going to cost a lot of money. They're not going to pay for skill players unless they're named Brady or Grownkowski. And so they thought that they could do it on the cheap. They couldn't. And this is the last act of a desperate team trying to fix their receiver

spot. Yeah. They get Edelman back in a couple of weeks, but he's not considered a deep threat. More of a Chris Hogan slot guy and he is coming off an ACL surgery. Ian O'Connor's got a no book on Bill Belichick, and I got it yesterday and I started diving into it last night. you know, is it possible that we're overvaluing the importance of Brady and Belichick having a great relationship?

I think so. I mean, if you consider that, you know, these two guys have worked together for 18 years, and I mean, look, I'm probably exaggerating, but I don't know how many meals they've ever had together. I don't know if they've had, if they've ever gone out for dinner together. You know, Bill Belichick is going to be an all-business guy. He believes at the end of the day, you go your way, I'll go mine, and then we'll meet again tomorrow to try to win a football game. But I do think the one thing that has happened now, the last couple of years, is that you're seeing a little bit of pushback from Brady.

Like, I understand sort of getting, not even abused, but getting beat up a little bit in team meetings. But I've had enough of that. I'm 41 years old. doesn't really work with me anymore. You know, I said yesterday they almost, listen, I mean, Bill could get another job, but you can't win in this league, even Bill Belichick, without a top quarterback. And most of the top quarterbacks, Wents has a Doug Peterson, Indianapolis likes Frank Reich,

you know, the Rams love McVeigh, the Niners like Kyle Shanahan. There's not a lot of openings in the NFL right now that top quarterbacks at a place because Bill's not going to start over. And similarly, you know, Tom Brady, most of the offensive coaches, he would work for. You know, the McVeys and the Shanahan's, they have their top quarterback. So this kind of feels like a marriage that you stay together for the kids for a couple years until they're out of the house. And that may be harsh, but that's what it feels like to me. I would agree with you, too, but let's just remember, Tom Brady was the MVP last year. And Bill Belichick is the state of the

art in terms of coaching. Each one of them needs one another. I mean, there's a passage in the Ian O'Connor book quoting an assistant coach, either former or current. I don't know. I guess it was around 2013 or 14, saying that the value of Brady outside the building is significantly higher than it is inside the building and that coaches think that they could win with any number of quarterbacks.

And I just shook my head at that one, Colin. It just seemed totally moronic to me just because, if you think about it, you know, after that statement was made, and I think, again, I'm assuming it's 2013-14, around the time they drafted Garapolo. But after that statement is made, Tom Brady, in the last 10 minutes of Super Bowl 49,

leads the Patriots to two long touchdown drives and beats the Legion of Doom. And then two years later, he comes back, and he comes back from 25 points down with 20 minutes to go in the game, and he beats the Atlanta Falcons in another Super Bowl. So am I to believe? that Ryan Tannahill or Andy Dalton or Alex Smith can do these things? I don't think so.

You know, John Gruden stepped in it again yesterday, and my belief with Gruden is, and I was talking about this with Joy Taylor on my show, she used to be a waitress. And I said, once you've been a waitress for any extended period, for the rest of your life, when you go to a restaurant, you end up, when the meal's done, kind of being a waitress and helping her out and stacking the dishes, it's in you. And it's just the way I've had many people I've known in my life, who have done that and they go to restaurants and they're cleaning the table as they eat.

And once you've been a television analyst for 10 years, you can't just turn off the TV analyst. And Gruden is over-talking, over-explaining, stepping in it weekly. And, you know, in television, your job is to be interesting. As an NFL coach, your job is to be quiet. And I feel like John still has a performer in him. I mean, God, Peter, I didn't like this hire to begin with. Were you on board initially? Because it does feel like he's reeling a little bit now.

I mean, I was on board when he had Collio Mack and Derek Carr on his team. Now he's only got one of them. And apparently, you know, having only one of them was a good deal of his fault. You know, I mean, we'll never, I don't know that we'll ever get the truth, whether that's more Mark Davis, John Gruden, or Reggie McKenzie. But nothing in that organization is going to happen without the John Gruden seal of approval. So I'll never understand thinking that it's too hard to sign the best pass rusher of his day in his prime at age 27. You know, you're in this business to draft and develop and keep players like Khalil Mack.

Well, the Raiders drafted and developed them and then they couldn't keep them. So, you know, it's like what Jerry Seinfeld said one time about going to rent a car. I have a reservation. You don't have a car. That's the whole thing about a reservation. That's supposed to mean when I come here, I get the car. And if you've got Khalil Mack, he's supposed to be on your team through his prime. Do you think you watch Lawrence Taylor because a lot of people watching me at 20 in their early 30s don't remember Lawrence Taylor. I do, you do. We watched them play. Do you see the similarities? Because people are saying you're overstating it. And I'm like, no, no, no, no. That first,

first half against Green Bay was as good as I, and that includes Lawrence Taylor, that's as dominant as a defensive player can be. I do see similar similarities to Lawrence Taylor. Is that hyperbolic? No, I mean, I covered Lawrence Taylor for four years in the 80s. I covered Lawrence Taylor in his prime, and he did some of the greatest things I've ever seen a defensive player do. But you know one thing I really hate, Colin, about sports and about sports media? Well, they'll never be another Jordan. Why? Why will there never be another Michael Jordan? Why will there never be another Bill Russell? You know, we're seeing LeBron James in his prime now. I'm not a basketball guy, but how can you say that he's not comparable to Michael Jordan? I'm not saying

he's better. I'm not saying he's equal. I'm saying that we could have a pretty good discussion about that probably. Yeah. To make the finals eight years in a row, that's a pretty good accomplishment right there. My only point is, I hate when everybody will say, oh, he's no Lawrence Taylor. Well, let's talk about that for a minute. And I'm not saying he will end up being Lawrence Taylor. All I'm saying is right now, at this moment in time in the NFL, the most important thing that you can have on a defense is a pass rusher to disrupt the most important player in team sports, the quarterback. And they've got the guy who over the last two years, the show, Chicago Bears have them now.

Over the last two years, has disrupted the quarterback more than any person in football. So, yeah, let's see what happens over the next two or three years. But if he keeps going this way, I'll have a conversation about him and Lawrence Taylor. Peter King, NBCSports.com. Patrick Mahomes, you talked to him this week. He's lighting up the league. Now, he had the great advantage that a Carson Went and Andrew Luck or a Sam Darnold don't. He sat for a year.

and, by the way, then inherited great weapons, and he's got Andy Reid, one of the great play designers. So that's the perfect way to do it for a young quarterback. Get him players, get him a coach, let him sit. When you talk to him, what was your takeaway on the person, not just the quarterback? He understands, and he's very vociferous about the fact that Alex Smith helped him a lot. And I think there's something to be said for a quarterback who knows,

that this young kid is going to take his job. Alex Smith was the biggest pragmatic guy in the NFL last year. He said, look, this kid was drafted to take my job. I'm going to help as much as I can. And then I'm going to try to go to a place where I can get a good contract and have a chance to win there. I know it's not here. They have said what their future is.

When you use two number ones to take a quarterback, you know that Patrick Mahomes is going to do it. But here's the one other really important thing. Look at the offense that Andy Reed is running. Last week, five of the six touchdown passes were either with five across or two by two, four across in the formation. He has a huge advantage because a defense looks at what you're sending out. They have no idea who to double.

Mahomes trusts everyone in that route tree to be able to go and get open. So he just, he's got no prejudice. If Tyree Kill is open, that's fine. I'm throwing to him. You know, if Kelsey's open, I'm throwing to him. He is just reading the formation, reading the coverage, and picking the open guy. It's luxurious right now for Patrick Mahomes. Jets Browns tonight, I was saying before the season started, my prediction was that Jimmy Haslam would put pressure on Hugh Jackson very early to play Baker, and they'd lose to the Steelers

and Saints, and he'd come and say, play him tonight against Sam Darnold. Well, Mary Kay Cab, at a very legitimate, I've used her, had her on my show for years, Brown's reporter says, Beyond Baker Mayfield Watch, and here's what's interesting. That if you look at Tyrod Taylor's career stats, last week against New Orleans, in the dome, his game stats were better significantly than his career stats. And yet today, we're hearing Beyond Baker Mayfield watch. I don't think it's you, Jackson. I'm going to go, I don't have this sourced,

but I feel Jimmy Haslam, the owner, on the Brown's only TV standalone game of the year, doesn't want to see Darnold steal the show. Again, I don't have it sourced, but I think Terod Taylor's been exactly what you brought him over and paid him for. They're all one-in-one. I think they'll win tonight, be one-one-one-you-you-had taken that to the bank a month ago.

give me what you think's going to happen here over the next couple of games for Baker, for Torad, and where the Brown sit. I will not be surprised at all if they put Mayfield in. But Colin, we just spent a couple of minutes talking about the benefit of sitting for a year and sitting behind a guy who was going to teach you. Tyrod Taylor is a great and unselfish mentor type guy. He's been fantastic to Baker Mayfield. The same thing that Josh McAllen was.

has been to Sam Darnold. Same thing that Alex Smith was to Patrick Mahomes. Why mess this up? Please, just tell me. Why? The Browns aren't winning anything this year. Why can't he get the benefit of sitting for most, if not all, of this year and step in and be the full-time guy opening day 2019?

Who cares about a Thursday night game in week three in 2018? Quite literally. Who cares? I mean, if they put Mayfield in and they eke out a win over a six and ten caliber team like the Jets, so what? Big deal. Stick with the plan. Hugh Jackson throughout training camp, this is Tyrod Taylor's team. Baker Mayfield's going to thank me someday. Those are his exact words to me. He's going to thank me someday for sitting this year. Now, he didn't say sitting all year, but he certainly didn't say just sitting for two weeks. By the way, before we go Peter King, NBCSports.com, Mike Tomlin's safe. His job is safe.

Pete Carroll and Mike Tomlin, to me, I've always compared the two. I know they can coach. They have a Super Bowl. I don't doubt that. They tend to be a little pro player more than I'd love, a little looser, very high emotion. That's their style. It's successful. I do wonder, though, Pete's O and 2. He went out publicly, kind of took a shot at Russell Wilson. Pete's older. And when coaches get to be 64, 65, Peter, you know, the Tom Coughlins, we have a window here. There's some kind of feeling that this is the last head coaching job. If I said to you, Pete Carroll, loses against Dallas, 0 and 3, is there a chance they let him go after the year, a year early before his contract's over? Do you think that there's anything to that?

I think so. I wouldn't be shocked. There's always one or two things that happen every year that don't surprise you. That wouldn't surprise me. Not that I think he's going to get fired at the end of the year. but I do think there's one kind of odd thing that happened. Brian Schottinheimer comes in as the offensive coordinator there, and I think both he and Pete would like Russell Wilson

to stay in the pocket a little bit more. Well, they've got a bad offensive line. I don't think Russell Wilson wants to leave the pocket all the time, but I think he has to do that out of survival mode. So I think they might be working at cross-purposes a little bit there. But again, this Seahawk team, this is an interesting year, It's a year of transition for them. Yes.

But also, if they go three and 13, four and 12, I think a lot of people, not just Peter in trouble. Yeah, the NFC has loaded their division now. San Francisco's rebuilding but competitive. The Rams are loaded. His name is Peter King, NBCSports.com. And by the way, I don't know if you want it public, but you have a great snappy haircut today. It's very handsome. And you told me, I said, you know, you really look cleaned up today.

And your answer was what to me? My answer was my wife, the great Anne King, has given me a haircut, the only person to give me a haircut since I was a junior at Ohio University. Look at it. Isn't it a thing of beauty, Colin, admit it? Look at it. It's great. It's salon perfect. I'm not lying. It's very, very nice, Peter.

I think I really owe her a lot of money over the years because they've all been freebies. Take her out to a nice dinner tonight. I'm sure you've done that more than once. Peter, good talking to you. Thanks, Colin. All right, Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news.

This is the herd line news. So the Red Sox 2018 AL East Championship Banner was missing for 48 hours earlier this week. There was a case. Everyone was wondering where it was, looking for it, and we found out what happened to it. We're driving on McGrath Highway in Somerville, and I noticed a couple cars swinging, like, moving to the right and we seen something in the street. And he's like, Louis, what is that? What is it?

I'm like, I don't know. What is it? So I ran across the highway to grab it. We brought it in the car. We had no idea what it was. First thing I said, this belongs to the Red Tarks. This is the Fenway Park. Yeah.

I'm thinking that they hang it off the green monster. You know, we need to negotiate here. We're looking for like, you know. We're working too. Yeah. I mean, my man had to run across three lanes. traffic. That's the greatest thing I've ever seen.

That is the greatest piece of, that's the best 30 seconds of video on the history of television. Fenway Park, I got out in my car. You couldn't, you could truly not make it up. Well, walking here, too, my friend had to go across the block way to get in his car. Yeah, so they returned it. And they were given nothing in return, which I think is unfair, because they did run across traffic. Can we play more of that before the end of the show? If we have an extra minute, just play that video at the end of the show.

We'll get back to these guys. You know what I'd like to do? They should be, you know how we have when the playoffs get here? If the Red Sox get to the World Series, they'll be our Red Sox analysts. Well, I'll mic those guys, put them up and I'll ask him about Fenway, Placcom, and see what they have to say. J.D. Martinez. Yeah.

All right. So Nick Sabin has won five national titles at Alabama, including last season. He's three and O'O at the top of both the 8. and coaches poll. And here are the lines for potential national title matchup with Alabama. This is for the Golden Nugget. Alabama, Golden State. They're nine and a half point favorites against Golden State, Ohio State.

Georgia, 10.5 point favorites. Clemson, 11.5 point favorites and against Oklahoma, 14.5. I just like to see him play Ohio State because I'd like to see the Big Ten SEC battle continue. Yes, that would be great. There's a lot of animosity between the Big Ten and the SEC. And a lot of personalities. There's a lot of storylines there. they have the best odds. The South doesn't respect the Big Ten and the Big Ten thinks the SEC

cheats. It's just the way the world works. So I would love to see a Buckeye crimson tie. Plus, Urban is a good enough game coach? Maybe you could pull off a little bit of an upset there. Alabama has scored over 50 points in all three games this season. They finally have a quarterback. They've always had good defense. You're going to beat them. You're going to have to score some points. So the Browns, speaking of favorites, play the Jets at home tonight and are favored by three points. They haven't been home favorite since week 14 of 2015. Johnny Mansell started that game.

And they are one of eight teams to be two and no against the spread this season. The last time they've been robed favorites once in that stretch. In 2017, they faced the Colts in week three. Yeah. And they were one and a half point favorites. And they lost that game with 31.28 to Jacoby percent. I know everyone thinks that the Browns are going to win this game tonight. You go?

I do not. You like the Jets? Yes. Can we archive this? Can we put this up? You like the Jets tonight? I do like the Jets tonight, yes. Rookie quarterback short week on the road against Cleveland's defense.

It's the Browns. Am I missing something? I've got to be missing something. Are the Browns? Are the Browns do no right now or something? Well, they're not great at field goal kicking. Okay, given. But to be fair, most of the league was pretty bad at that over the past two weeks.

They're not great at football. I'll give you that. Yeah, I'm just, yeah. Look, I hope the Browns win for once. Well, the Jets, I think, have the better coach. and the better quarterback. I've got to be missing something with tonight's game. Well, I mean...

I don't get it. The Jets... Here's the thing. All the Jets' talent except Darnold, it's all on defense. So a rookie quarterback, the Jets O-line is awful. They're running backs, tight ends, receivers. So Darnold's going to face his rookie on a short week on the road, a really legitimate defense full of top draft picks who are all pretty good.

Their defense is good. I just feel like I'm missing something because everyone's, like, oh, it's a given. Brown's going to win. Like, when? Can you tell me the last time the Browns won a game? It's just a given now that they're just... John, do we know that?

I believe it was week 16, 2016. I think Brian Seip was the quarterback. Against the Chargers, yes. Against the Chargers? Yes, two years ago. We're almost on the two-year anniversary of the last round. So close. Parade time.

You know, you had a parade a few years ago in Cleveland. They can finally open those Bud Light Coolers that have been locked up for all this time. Good stuff. Joy Taylor with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Line News. Coming up, I'm going to make the single biggest bet I've made in my life in best for last.

That is coming up. Tonight on Thursday night football, rookie Sam Darnold and the Jets take on the Browns exclusively on the NFL network. And starting in week four, Fox becomes the new network homes at Thursday night football when the Vikings battle. Jared Gough, Todd Gurley, and the two and O Rams. That'll be a great game because last year the Rams, They lost a couple games, but that was their stinker. They went to Minnesota. They were on a roll, and they got stoned.

Minnesota just pushed them around. Cooper Cup dropped a ball near the end zone. And I know inside the Rams organization, they feel like they owe the Vikings one. So our Fox Thursday night games start next Thursday. It is a great first game when Fox bought the NFL Thursday night package. One of the things we decided was we're going to make the games better. We worked very, very hard to make those Thursday games, great games you want to watch. Tonight's interesting.

We have Jets Browns, which is not a fascinating game on the outside, but I can't wait to watch because it's Sam Darnold, maybe Baker Mayfield. Okay, so I've told you this, we have a new show called Lock It In on the Network, and it's on immediately after Speak for Yourself, which follows our show. And you've got Cousin Sal, Todd Furman, Clayte Travis, Rachel Benetta. They've done a great job. Gambling now, Supreme Court ruled about six months ago. You can gamble on sports in America, and now each state will decide how they're going to do that,

but you can gamble in America on sports, right? And I myself have been doing Blazing Five for about 10 years. I take it very seriously. I've always gotten over 55%. One year I got to like 61, but they always say if you're a professional sports gambler, if you can hit about 58%, you can be a professional sports gambler. I take it seriously. I think I'm better today than I was 10 years ago.

We're off to two back-to-back winning weeks. I will say tomorrow's picks are the strongest picks I think I've ever had in Blazing Five. But blah, blah, blah. So in kind of in celebration of this new show we have at the network called Lock It In, which is every day right after speak for yourself, I don't know why I did this. Maybe I was just getting into the sports gambling thing. I made a thousand dollar bet on a regular season football game this week.

Now, I am not going to divulge it before the games because I, because it's way more, I usually bet 50 bucks, 100 bucks. I will bet on games. I'm not as much a fantasy guy. is a better guy, but I don't bet big money on stuff. It's fun to me. If I can win a hundred bucks, I get free dinner, I feel good about it, right? I'm not doing car payments and stuff.

And so I bet $1,000 in the game, but I told Joy, I'm not going to tell everybody who it is because I don't want somebody out there watching and thinking, man, Colin bet a thousand, I'm going to bet a couple. And if you lose, I feel bad. If I lose, I'm fine with it. I don't want other people lose. So you're just, you're being responsible by not telling everyone who you bet big on so that

they don't lose their money. But I think it's also, I'm going to offer some transparency. Because if I lose, I want the audience to know it's painful. So I have an envelope here. Okay, this is the golden envelope. I will seal this envelope. I have already written down my pick on this card.

I'm not going to show you. I'm going to put this in the envelope. You are all witnessing this. Okay, hold on. I'm looking at it. All right. Whitlock, watch this too. All right.

You want everybody to watch this. I have witnesses. Okay. Okay. Now I am going to put it in the lock it in suitcase. So that that show will happen. This will go to that show. And when are they going to?

When they, I'll tell them when the game officially ends. Okay. And then they can open it up and roast me or celebrate me on the air. So do we have any? legitimate security here who could, young man, could you come on here? He looks suspiciously like our

bit guy. Here, this is the lock it in suitcase. Now check that it, you can't open it. Check that I didn't, it's not, okay. There you go. There's our bit guy, who's also our quasi-security guy. So lock it in, we'll unveil it.

I will unveil it. That is a thousand dollar bet. And you just did this, you felt that strongly about it or you just feel like in something wild? I feel so strongly about a game. Okay. And I only feel this like once a year. Like this week I have blazing five picks I like, but that I would go crazy on a game.

But you've restrained yourself in the past. Yeah. I'm just like I'm not, come on, it's a lot of money. So what inspired the $1,000 bet? Because every week I look at the lines and when I try to guess the lines and then I see what the, I play a game. I go to a website. I look at the games. I guess the line and I look at the line.

And I'm always very, you know, reasonably close. And when I see a line and it's like two and a half, three points off, I'm like, oh my. And this one surprised me. So this will be unveiled sometime over the next week. It's a very good tease by you. Okay. I also want to do this. I'm going to show you the most amazing stat that football's ever produced, best for last.

This is our best for last. After almost three hours, Colin apparently hasn't gotten to the point yet. Quit holding out on us, cowherd. It's the best for last. Okay. We did a segment earlier today called RealStat or Bullstat, where we put up stats, and do they have meaning or do they not have meaning? This is amazing.

Okay, last week, the Steelers lost to the Kansas City Chiefs. The Steelers became the first team since, 1940 to score 37 points or more, have zero turnovers, and lose the game. So not since 1940, has a team scored 37 points at home, no turnovers, and lost. Before Sunday, the teams were 386 and zero. And Antonio Brown didn't show up to the team meetings on Monday, but today he voiced his frustration. we're losing the game we can't beat by 40 we haven't won the game yet

for me as a stiller has unacceptable you know I'm not on the sideline begging for the ball of making statements like you guys make I'm pissed off we're losing we sell I thought this was a very interesting moment on today's show we've had Eric Mangini on Rob Parker Peter King

did anybody notice an hour and a half ago Greg CoSells worked at NFL films for over three decades. I depend on Greg. I see Greg in the offseason. I talk to him during the week. I lean on Greg for some tape stuff. What's the tape saying if I have a question? He talked about, I've never heard Greg say this. He talked about the Pittsburgh Steelers defense this week, and here's what he said an hour and a half ago. Well, I think for the most part, he's been very poised and composed. I do have to give this caveat. And again, it takes nothing away from a homes. It just inflates his numbers. obviously played well through two weeks.

But the numbers were inflated this week because I have to tell you what the film showed. Pittsburgh made more mistakes on defense than I think I've seen one team make in a given game. And it was just, it was tough to watch. I mean, Mike Tomlin addressed it. They'll take care of some of that. But that just inflated Mahomes numbers. I've never heard Greg Kosel say that. Mike Tomlin, that is his defense.

Remember what I told you yesterday, if you look at what he enhanced. inherited from Bill Cower. The first five years of Tomlin's defense, and those were Cowers guys, Cowers' culture, Cowers' draft picks, first, second, third, fifth, second in the NFL. Over the last five or six years, it's Mike Tomlin's draft picks, culture, coaches that he's hired. It's middle of the pack to sometimes below middle of the pack. So when CoSell said that, that is something you and I, Joy, have talked about.

You're from Pittsburgh. There is a sense that Pittsburgh's doing the offensive side of the ball at an incredibly high level. But Mike Tomlin's a defensive guy in the last five years. He's not holding up his end of the bargain. They're bad. Well, it's kind of a lingering identity. When you think of the Steelers, think of defense and grit and Steel City or Steel Curtin and that's not what they are. They're actually a finesse offensive team. No question. But their brand is hard-nosed defense. So you get confused. Like even if you see the stats, you're like, no, no, Pittsburgh is good on defense. And that's just not what's happening.

If you look at that game, I mean, how does, do you know how many points they had to score to win that game? It's insane. Listen, they scored, how many, the points did they score against Jacksonville in the playoffs? They scored, didn't they score 42 points and lose? When they lose to New England, New England is dropping one year 55, 37, 28. So some of this anger inside this organization, offensive guys are the ones doing all the talking? Is it possible, as we suggested yesterday?

They're just tired of the defensive guys not holding up there into the bargain. Remember the Seattle defensive guys got frustrated with Russell Wilson's offense? What I sense in Pittsburgh is all these offensive guys are like, coach, we're dialing up 40 points. Yeah, Pittsburgh lost 45, 42. Patrick Mahomes is a baby, and Blake Bortles is average. We're dropping 42 and losing games at home to these guys. So I think that's some of the pushback. Draft Kings, $2 million total prices this weekend.

Get the app or go to draftkings.com. Use the code, Heard. H-E-R-D. first deposit minimum $5 deposit required draftkings.com code herd. Doug Gottlie, Blazing 5, Ian O'Connor tomorrow. Speak for yourself around the corner in L.A. This is the herd. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlicse on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

My quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, Brett, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford Show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was finally. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow.

Then after that game seven, Marquis come until he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human