The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Belichick's experience matters; Pats' core shines; Goff's limitations exposed

Episode Date: February 5, 2019

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Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Clivert Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

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Visit geico.com today. That's GEICO. What is going on? It's your boy. Just some dude you listen to that records takes into a mic, forward a living, named John Middlough, that's me. Three and Out podcast, brought to you by Colin Coward

and his podcast network. We're live slash recording. It is Monday after the Super Bowl, which is a holiday for sports fans, really around the country. You just actually have to go to work. But, you know, I'd say, What a game.

I don't know if it's what a game, but it was the last game of the season. I've been saying for a while, enjoy it because it's going to end. And now it's over. And this is really the last game we get to talk about for a long, long time. Luckily, we got the draft. We got, you know, free agency. It's actually not far away to combine. We've got a lot of fun stuff to talk about.

But the actual games, you know, are over for a pretty long period of time now. So I hope you enjoyed yesterday. I know 13 to 3. and you know zero zero for a long period of time not ideal but we're going to dive into the coaching matchup which to me was the headline of the game uh and then some stuff on the brady and just that group you know from gronk to edelman to mccordy just how special that core is uh then you know jared goth man i mean she kind of shut the bed you in the biggest game of his life was god awful was terrible.

And just, is he a franchise quarterback? Have some thoughts on that. And then some of their limitations as a team, when your best player on, you know, Aaron Donald's our best player, when your best offensive player is your running back, you can get yourself with some sticky situations. But to me, the headline of the game, by far.

Like, Edelman had to win the MVP. You have 10 catches. He was just kicking ass all day long, taking Nikol Robi just to the woodshed. But this was the Bill Belichick game. I mean, 13 to 3, stifled arguably one or two offense, you know, depending on how you look at it in the National Football League. Belichick took Sean McVeigh to the absolute woodshed. And should we be that shocked?

I say all the time that where I went to college, Cal Poly, the motto of the university is learned by doing. And when you say learn by doing, and it translates for me, the more I do something, the better you get at it. You know, Malcolm Gladwell talked about 10,000 hours forever. You can say make fun of it all you want, but I think we all agree, the longer you do something, especially something difficult, the better you get at it. Right, iron sharpens iron. So the more football games you coach, if you're a good coach, you're going to be better in your 20 than you were in your 10. Well, the thing about yesterday is Bill Belichick has been in the National Football League since 1975.

The other coach that really shine yesterday, Wade Phillips. First job in the NFL, 1976. For example, I have been working in or around the NFL for almost 10 years now. I was born in 84. Belichick had been in the league nine years before I even popped out of my mother. So, Sean, and I'm older to Sean McVeigh, I think by, he just turned 33. So by a year, by a year and a half. Sean McVeigh has been, since he's been the Rams coach,

is the only time, he made the playoffs once with the Redskins, but he's been to the playoffs three different times in his life. Obviously, he won some games this year for the first time in his career. Think how many games, before Belichick got the head coaching job of the Cleveland Browns, he had been coaching for the New York Giants on one of the great kind of mini-dynasties and with arguably a top five or six head coach ever what he'd been learning from. In Parcells with L.T., coaching defense against Walsh,

playing in Super Bowls. Think about the experience before Bill Belichick just got a head coaching job, and then he even made the playoffs with the Browns. But just think before he ever became the coach of the Patriots, how much he had learned, how much he had seen, how many different situations from the best player he ever coached was doing crack.

You know, we made a good. fun of like that Stephen A mean that's talking about Lamar Odom. What do you think L.T. was doing? So just being around that, handling going against Walsh, going against Gibbs, you're playing those Bills teams. He's seen so, this is before he ever put on a Patriot Polo as the head coach. And then before yesterday's game, he had coached before yesterday, 41 playoff games, including Super Bowls, as the head coach.

McVeigh since he's been the Rams guy He played in one last year This year he played in three That's four And as the coordinator He had coached one with the Redskins Total five players in his life So just the experience

It should have been an ass kicking Belichick versus McVeigh It should not have been close It should have been a massive mismatch You know I was I woke up Maybe it was Thursday

Some super big investor on CNBC. I usually turn it on if I'm up early at like six in the morning or seven because there's no, Colin doesn't come on till nine my time and sometimes I can only handle so much debate shows and there's nothing good on the morning. So I throw on CNBC. You know, just try to get the mind going. And this dude had a little stock tip. He's like, you know, I just purchased a bunch of Avon. I think it's Avion or Avon or what, it's a makeup company. So I've never used it. But it's really popular. The stock was really cheap. So you know what? I'll buy a thousand dollars worth of stock. I'm not Warren Buffett.

You know, it's probably my, I don't know, 200 trade of my life. You wouldn't put me against the guy at Wells Fargo. Now, I'm not comparing myself trying to parallel that to McVeuvre's Belichick, but like he's in the infancy of his career. The infancy of his career. He just happened to start as a head coach way earlier. But his experiences, his knowledge, he's never had a losing season. Like eventually he's going to have a losing season.

Belichick had a couple. you learn from that. You become better at that. He's never really had to replace coaches. And, you know, one day, Wade Phillips, who's seven years old, which is by far the most vital guy on his staff, is going to retire. Who does he replace him with? So I like McVeigh. I think he's a star. Did he have a great game yesterday? No. Did his quarterback let him down yesterday? Big time. Was he at somewhat of a disadvantage without his star running back? Which we really don't know what's going on? For sure. But even if all those things were 100 percent, Gurley's health, Goff was playing well. Belichick still should have beat him. Why? Because he's, he's been in this league for so long, and he's the best to ever do it. You know, even, it just, I think we made, looking back, and I did it, I'm just as guilty as anyone else. I'm like, I think McVeigh's got a chance. No, he shouldn't have had a chance. Belichick changed his entire defense. You know, they just ran zone. They've been a manned team all year. He can do that. He changes his defense and offense all the time. You never know what they're going. going to do. You knew exactly what

McVeigh was going to do. It was just whether they were going to execute it. You have no clue what the Patriots are going to do. They're going to go five wide. They're going to go three writing backs. They're going to bring in three tight ends. If you could, he'd bring in six tight ends. He doesn't care. And in fairness, those two, especially

him and Brady, and even Hightower and McCordy, they've been together so long. They know how to just switch things on the fly. Gough and McVeigh have been together for like 24 months. And really, you know, the first three or four months of McVeigh's career, you're not even allowed to talk to the players until OTA starts, so they haven't even been together that long. You know, it's, experience still really matters.

And I love making fun of millennials and talking about young, bright people. And listen, I'm a little biased to him on a millennial. But there's a reason older people that are good at their job usually got a lot better at their job as years goes. You know, you can be, you know, this isn't Silicon Valley. The NFL, you don't just get rich at the snap of a finger. He didn't just create, you know, Twitter, Sean McVeigh. He's basically just been running an offense that's been operating forever.

Mike Shanahan was running it 20 years ago with success with John Elway. Kyle Shanahan's been doing it now for the last like 10. Kubiak did it forever. Like, he's not reinventing anything. They'd just been doing it really well. In props to McVeigh, you get credit for coaching. But yesterday was just a clinic on, with coach. and with a lot of high-level jobs.

Experience is and will always matter, especially in huge situations that are pressure-packed, that you could feel it, whether that's negotiating your first $100 million deal if you're a real estate company, whether it's coaching your first Super Bowl, whatever it is. If you're up against a guy that's done it 50 times more than you,

you were at a huge disadvantage. And I think that really came to light last night. When you think of last year when Belichick lost to Doug Peterson, Doug Peterson was a first-time coach. You know, technically it was a second year coaching. But he played in the league for 14 years, played for homeward, played for Andy, then coached for Andy for 10. You know, think about the scenarios that he had seen.

He just been in the league a lot longer. And it turns out, you know, certain backup quarterbacks are just kind of a natural addict. Gary Kubiak was. Now, Doug Peterson's on the high end of that. But he has a lot of experience. He's not your typical kind of, quote-unquote, younger coach. He's been around the NFL for like 25 years. McVeigh is a baby.

And I think eventually one day he'll get over the hump, whether that's next year, whether that's in five or 10 years. He's a big-time coach. But he's going to have to adapt, as smart guys always do in this league. Belichick's been adapting for like 20 years. It just, it really was crazy. And I didn't expect it, so I'm not saying I'm Nostodomacy, right? I didn't see this coming.

But it's crazy once it happens to you realize, God, this was just not a fair fight from the jump. One thing, as analytics has really blown up in sports, and I would imagine most of you that work in the corporate world have felt this forever, numbers and just the spreadsheet of how much you're making or how much you're losing, and I've seen this in football, how fast a guy runs, or how high a guy jumps, or even how productive a guy is, doesn't always quantify what's going on in a building,

how much guys like each other, what the team chemistry is. And I'm not just talking sports. I worked in a radio station. It's clear when you have a good thing going or when you have a bad thing going. Of just kind of team chemistry. And when I say team, I just mean employees.

Because I do think I've been at places where people like each other and I've worked at places where people don't like each other. And there is a, to me, if people do like each other, and are good, your upside for production is higher. Now, at the end of the day, you know, and I think the corporate world would tell you this,

you either get the job done or you don't. You either make money, you know, I have friends that work in construction. You either turn a profit on a project or you don't. But I do think there are some businesses, and I can speak for the media is an example. If you're doing a TV show or a radio show, like you feel chemistry, you know,

you definitely see it with sports. Like one thing, I've had a front row seat for the Warriors these last five years. Draymond, Clay, and Steph really like each other. And Igwadala. They're a tight group. Obviously, they're super talented, which means the most. But their cohesion, they like playing with each other.

They like each other personally. That's one thing you'd say about LeBron. Like, sometimes he doesn't always love his teammate. When you look at this Patriot run, obviously it starts with Brady, but to me there's a core group. There's Gronken Edelman. I mean, I would say Brady's two favorite teammates. I don't know how you'd quantify this, but Gronk and Edelman would be in, you know,

would be in competition for the number one favorite teammate. They both would probably be top three guys ever. And then when you just look at the group, McCordy and Dante Hightower, that now they combine, they all have three championships each. What's crazy is you think about Brady, think about the six, and you're still talking about the Rodney Harrisons, you know, the Vrables, the Bruskees. this new core of guys, Edelman, Gronk, McCordy, and Hightower, like, their ability to play with each other.

Now, again, they're just baseline of talent is really high, right? Gronk's arguably the greatest tight end ever. McCordy's been just an invaluable chess piece for Belichick and his defensive backfield. High Tower has just been an awesome level. I don't even know really what position he plays. He's like a pass-rush, hybrid linebacker that Belichick uses really well. and then Edelman arguments on social media

I'm torn a little bit I don't know if he's a Hall of Famer but he's just a hollow he's a champion that's how I describe it and that core that cohesion you know you read cheesy business books

and they always tell you you know it's not about the buildings it's about the people in the buildings well in sports like you need LeBron or Steph right you need Brady Rogers you know you need Ray Lewis you need dudes

but once you have the dudes, how they come together matters. And I saw a good, it kind of went viral this weekend of Ed Reed talking about the 2012 team when they won the Super Bowl. He's like, everything matters. I told guys, like, you get in after a game and you cut your tape off, are you going to be lazy and just throw it on the ground? He's like, the trash is right there, just throw it away.

You know, and there's a respect level when everyone's high level. And that's why I think that Raven team, for example, in 2012, Ed Reed, Terrell Suggs, Just so many high-level guys, obviously Ray Lewis, that it's easy to see that cohesion and chemistry, as we become more and more numbers-driven in sports, will always matter the most in football. And I think you saw it last night, or yesterday, or I guess if you're listening to this on Tuesday, it's a couple days old now. The Patriots did not play well. They were not playing that well.

But their championship players are just going to come through. and their cohesion with each other. They've played with each other for so long now. Edelman has been catching Brady balls now for 10 years. Gronk's been catching balls from Brady for nine. I know some of you're going to laugh. It sounds kind of funny. Hightower's been making plays now in McCordy for years.

At the highest level. They've won at the highest level consistently. It's one of the truly great, I know around here, you know, obviously if you're Jerry Rice or Ronnie, lot, but there are other guys that walk around here that are made men in the Bay Area. Like Brent Jones, he just walks around like a champion, you know? Just, damn, there's Roger Craig. You know, just certain guys that, you know, obviously Gronk and Brady are by far the

most famous. Edelman's probably not going to make the Hall of Fame, but he does have an MVP. Like Hightower and McCordy, I don't think McCordy's going to make the Hall of Fame, but he's a damn good player. That's an incredible core of super smart, super tough, super talented, Like, it's the ultimate. And the irony, it's very football, right? The quarterback's sixth round pick.

The Super Bowl MVP, the slot receiver is a seventh round pick, who was a quarterback. The tight end was a second round pick. Now he was a first round talent, but he had a bad back. And he dealt with injuries his whole career. And the other two defensive guys are first round picks. But it's just, it's never like seven first rounders. It's always like you sprinkle it. Look at Seattle's core all those years.

Had a third rounder, a fifth rounder, a third rounder. a couple first rounders. It's just always a mix. And when you find the perfect mix, now it starts with Tom and Bill, but they couldn't do this alone. Football is the ultimate team game. And Gronk and Edelman...

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies,

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What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me.

He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, ref, my mom, I'm going to want you. you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker.

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Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tabramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your Like, yes. Kicked ass yesterday. High Tower was everywhere. McCordy is just a champion. Hell is brother, man. Might have made the play of the game. Just a hat tip to that core.

As a football fan, and that's what I am first, just a fan of the game. My fan of individual teams have kind of left me. I just root for people. You know, like Matt Nagy wins the coach of the year. I was fired up. When Coach Reed wins games, I get excited. Derek Carr blocked me on Twitter,

but I root for him to do well. I've thoroughly enjoyed everything about this Patriot team. If you don't like them, I guess if you're a Jets fan or whatever, I get it. But if you can't respect them, I have a hard time respecting some of your opinion about football. Because if you can just take a step back, remove a little emotion, you go, Jesus, this is one of the great course we've ever seen. Won three Super Bowls, they lost another. I mean, they've been incredible. and the plays they make when it matters most is just, it's borderline unprecedented.

I just don't think we're ever going to see it again. Edelman, McCordy, High Tower, and Garc, these guys got three Super Bowls. Three! Man, what, just championship level culture. This episode is brought to you by Royal Caribbean, an award-winning global cruise line. A vacation is what you make it. So are you ready to make the most of it? A Royal Caribbean Adventure is the perfect opportunity.

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And, you know, in a relationship, like a personal relationship, you know, I'm not married, but I'm dated. obviously when you grow up and you deal with your parents sometimes you got to work on your weaknesses you know it's just not possible you know certain things you might just have to adapt a little bit for you know a girlfriend or a wife or even your parents but in business I'm a big believer

and figure out what you do well and go all in it and whatever you do not well don't even worry about it you know just circumvent it pay someone else to do it Don't waste any time on it. You know, I've done, figured out from a media setting, a couple things that I'm really good at. And a couple things that are just good for my career. And I've just gone all in. And I've kind of hung my hat on it since I got into it.

One, I realized right away, just I'm a pretty, you know, not afraid to say anything. And I've been like that from the jump. And I realize, at the end of the day, who gives a shit? If I believe it, I'm going to say it. and I think people that have listened to me for a while just know I'll say whatever. Like I'm going to believe it when I say it, but I'm not going to be afraid to say it. And that's probably the one thing that I really hang my hat on. I'm just not afraid to go all in on something, even if I know people, you know,

and I think a lot of people in this business, and I think you see it with a lot of former players, is they're terrified to piss anyone off. And if you're worried about that in this job, Johnny Miller just retired the long time, you know, broadcaster in golf, and he always hung his hat on them. like he'd crush players. But he'd crush them like after they hit a bad shot. You know, and he doesn't go out of his way to do it. And you can say negativity sells or whatever.

But I think people, and they always have, but definitely now more than ever, in my business, appreciate honesty. You know, because you're all thinking it at your house. Like, there's nothing worse than an announcer that just will not say anything negative. Like, if the dude's playing terrible, you can say it. You know, you don't need to make it personal, but you can be critical. and like there are a couple things that I'm not just going to be good at. Like you're not going to put me on a television screen and go, God, that guy looks like Jesse Palmer.

That ain't going to be my strength, you know? I'm not the smartest guy in the room. You know, I have someone that has to sell advertisements and stuff on my other podcast. Like, I'm relentless. I will email the shit out of you. You know, I'm a pretty good salesman. You know, comes pretty naturally to me because I will bug you until you say yes. there are things that I'm not going to do well.

Like, I couldn't write a contract. I'm not smart enough. I'm just, I'm not a great writer. Now, I write for the athletic, but if it wasn't for the editing team, my articles wouldn't ever look that great. Because my vocabulary, I'm not some Harvard grad here. So the quicker you could figure out your strengths and weaknesses in anyone listening, whatever you do, you know, you know, usually if you're a good negotiator,

they're going to send you in to negotiate. If you're a good salesman, they're going to sell you to sell. If you're good at typing stuff up and drafting proposals, you'll probably be at the desk. Not everyone's meant to do certain roles. Some people excel in some things. Some people run the deep route. Other guys are possession receivers. And the quickest thing you have to do as a coach is find your quarterback strengths and weaknesses.

The problem is early on in a guy's career, like with Jared Goff, they've gone all in on a couple strengths. Play action pass. So to excel and play action pass, you have to be. able to run the ball. So what happens when it's the Super Bowl and you can't run the ball? I got news for you. You're probably screwed. And Jared Goff, one of his weaknesses right now, because it doesn't exist, he's not going to go up to the line and change plays. That's McVeigh's job. And that's a problem. And that's back to what I was talking about in the first segment about Belichick. They were at such a huge disadvantage. Now that we know that Gurley was not going to be

100%. Their quarterback can't change plays at the line. Their coach, like everyone acting like McVeigh did a bad job, I think he was somewhat limited. There's only so much he could do. Now, you could say, well, they should have implemented some just wrinkles and some different plays over these two weeks. To me, that is very fair. That is very fair. But I think a lot of the limitations to it all start with Jared Gough.

McVeigh starts a golf, and then he kind of works backwards from there. So part of the reason you don't see a lot of exotic stuff from them is because they can't do it. Really, they're exotic stuff as a lot of. a team, right, is on special teams. They always do crazy-ass shit. Why? Because their punter has a great arm. Because their kicker can make like 80-yard kicks.

That's where they excel. They've run crazy fake punts or fake returns forever. They've been the masters at it because they've got dynamic players there. Their quarterback right now is limited. So their coach is kind of limited. It's really remarkable they've been this good with a limited quarterback. Now, Jared Gough, you know, McVeigh's got to get better, but he needs his quarterback to get better.

He has to learn how to check plays in the line of scrimmage. He has to learn how to read defenses. And that usually takes time. I think it's almost unfair to think a third-year quarterback is going to be able to do that. But that, to me, has to be the off-season plan for Goff. He has to take a huge step there. Because the one thing I'll say for Jared Goff is he is a tough guy. He is not afraid to get hit.

You can hit him and he'll come back to next play on phase. Where he gets phased is when you're at his feet. You notice when anyone was at his feet yesterday. It threw him off, partly because he doesn't have a great arm. So if his feet aren't set, he can't really make throws. And for whatever reason yesterday, was he thinking too much? Was the environment too big? Maybe.

I mean, it's only his second year having any success really in his life. I mean, it's three years of cow. The first two years, they were god awful. They didn't sniff a bowl. In the third year, they went seven and five, and they weren't very good either. So it's not like this guy's been playing high-level football for 10 years now. He's really been winning for the last 18 months, if we're really going to call it what it is. really 12 months because they won last year.

Yeah, 18, you know, 16 months. So it's a short period of time. But his arm limitations, like he can throw it far, but he doesn't throw it that hard. So if his feet aren't perfectly set, the ball is not going to be very accurate. If he's going to max out and be a really good player in this league, one, he's going to have to win with his head

because he doesn't have the physical attributes to just dominate you. He's going to have to figure out, and he did go to Cal, now he only stayed for three years, but I've met him a couple times as a sharp guy. he's going to have to learn to manipulate defenses, to look guys off, to see things at the beginning of pre-snap, and then post-snap see things. Right now, that's not what he's doing.

And because his arm is probably never going to be great, he's got to be really accurate. Not just on play action stuff where it's easy throws. On throws where it's four or five wide, and they know you're going to throw. Because as you saw in that game, Belichick's the master at it. He's going to make you do things you're not comfortable at doing.

And if you can do things that you're not comfortable at doing, then you can play with them, right? then you can beat him. Jared Goff had no chance. I think the term is to make him play left-handed. He had no left-hand. I mean, hell, he barely had a right-hand. But I think everyone's crushing McVeigh,

and he did not have a great game. But I think it's more on Jared Goff, because they only wanted to do things he did well. And he only does so much really well. Now, when he gets in a rhythm against shitty defenses, he can light you up. But when he's playing a high-level defense that knew what was coming, he didn't have a curve,

ball. He just had the one pitch. And then they started covering his guys and he started getting coverage sacks and he's not athletic enough to make something out of nothing. So it was just over. If you can, even good players, like if nothing's there for Philip Rivers or guys like that, they can't scramble. And that's

one of the knocks. And here's the other thing. Because they were playing a bunch of zone defense, he's not a confident enough player, especially without Gurley, where he's just going to sit there and throw balls into windows. And especially the way the ball was coming out of his hands yesterday, he had no chance. So I think their big

growth as a two-sum, really. It's McVehan Gough. I mean, that's going to be the combination moving forward. You know, I wouldn't love paying him huge money, but they're not going to have, they draft into number one overall. He's not going anywhere. He just lost in the Superboy at a bad game. I'm not trying to overreact here. He's going to be around

for a while. But they got to take a huge step this offseason to not rely so much on this green dot. To not rely so much on this collegiate, I got to tell you every play. I need you to take some ownership. I need you to take a huge step mentally. Like physically, you kind of are what you are.

You're Matt Ryan-ish. So if we get some better pieces around you, get you a tight end, Gurley's going, you're fine. You have enough physical tools. I need you to take a huge step mentally. Take a huge jump. Same with Sean McVeigh. You need to become, and maybe he has this,

he just hasn't implemented because Goff didn't have this in the bag. You need to become more open-minded to doing more things. Because in the Super Bowl, you're going to get Belichick. and Belichick's seen it all and can do it all. You can't only run a couple plays. And he basically knows what's coming. You got no chance. So I think a lot of people are going in on McVeigh,

and that's the nature of the Super Bowl. He's a super famous and the hype on him. But this offseason for Jared Goff to take a huge step above the neck, because physically he's not going to change that much. He's never going to be fast. He's never going to have a great arm. He's got to take a step mentally. And these next six or seven months are huge for him.

Okay, let's dive into the Middilkoff mailbag. Because it's about that time. You can always slide up into my DMs at John Middilcoff. It's basically my handle for everything on social media, my name, just with an ad symbol in front of it, Twitter, Insta, you name it. But I answer questions in this segment from Insta. So let's go. We've got two questions.

One, how big of a game was this for Belichick's legacy? That seems like an insane thing to ask, given that he's already had five rings. But I think when people look back and see the Patriots, shut down one of the league's top two offenses in the Super Bowl, he will get remembered for this one a lot more than Brady, given the defensive game and the fact that he was so much made of Sean McVeigh coming in. I'll dive into that here a second.

Two, how bizarre is the Todd Gurley story? Do you buy even for a second he's actually healthy? If so, a bit of a black eye and McVeigh. Okay, let's start with the first one. I think because they're kind of tied in together. If Todd Gurley had been 100%, Because I thought about whenever he got injured, when was that like early November, mid-November. I mean, he's been a shell of himself.

As he said, he basically hasn't done much for the last two months. I would have given Belichick a ton of credit. Like, he's getting credit no matter what. But if Todd Gurley would have been 100%, and this offense would have been humming coming into the game, you would have been like, damn, this is an all-time great Belichick performance. It still is, but it's not quite as great. Like, their first one ever against the greatest show on turf, he took out Marshall Falk. Who was in like the peak of his powers?

You know, a couple years ago, you know, I guess they made, I'd have to look back to the stats of Marshawn Lynch. You know, some of the games, you know, I guess against McNabb, Terrell Owens. Yeah, this is probably there. I mean, clearly, they had three points in the Super Bowl. But I do think they're somewhat of an asterick, I can't even say that word, asterich, asterick, by Todd Gurley's name just because, I mean, what the hell was going on? Are you injured?

Are you healthy? clearly he's not healthy but a couple runs in that game on just the outside zone when he cuts it back you're like god damn it's todd girly i know in love but where was that guy what was his deal so yeah i think bellichick i mean tom brady's got six so anytime you have six you know super bowls you're in pretty good shape but yeah i'd say belichick is going to get a little more credit in this individual game okay here's a question which one of these trade scenarios i already like this question is more likely. In which trade scenario would you except if you're Kyle, Shanahan,

John Lynch? Trade with the Broncos. The Niners get, 2019 1st, 10th overall. 2019, 2nd, 40 overall. 2019, God. Third round, 70 overall. 2020, second round pick. The Broncos get

2019 number 2 overall pick. Yeah, that's not possible. Trade with the Raiders. I mean, obviously, I'd do that if I was the 49ers. Trade with the Raiders. Niners get the Raiders first, fourth overall. 2019, first round 24th overall. 2019, fifth round, 131st overall.

The Raiders get second overall pick. I mean, I would do both those if I'm college out. They're not getting, there's not getting that much to go up. Yeah, it's just neither of those. Both the other teams are saying no. So if the 49ers decided to draft another defensive tackle like Quinn and Williams or Ed Oliver, do you see them trading Solomon Thomas or cutting Eric Armstrongstred since there is already so much redundancy on the roster with having a bunch of tweeners,

defensive ends and defensive tackles? Well, I think you're kind of stuck with Armstead because you picked up his fifth-year option and he's always injured, so I'm sure he probably couldn't pass a physical. You know, I think Solomon Thomas, who I'm not the biggest fan of, did show some signs of light at the end of the season. You know, they put him inside over guards, and he was much more productive. So I would say that Solomon, I mean,

they just drafted him two years ago. I'm not a big Solomon Thomas guy. But, like, I'm okay with being wrong on that. You know, if he becomes a much better player, maybe where most guys take a huge step from their rookie to their sophomore year, not everyone's on that pace. Now, we expect it of really high draft picks,

but some guys, he was super young. You know, he's only 23 years old, maybe he takes a big step from his second to his third year. So I would say unless they got a crazy deal, Solomon Thomas is going to be on the team, and no one's taking Eric Armstead's like $12 million salary. Again, fifth year option, he finished the season on injured reserve. I doubt you could cut him with him passing a physical.

Question for the show. Did Goff miss quite a few open receivers with poor reads? Also, I thought the crowd noise was underrated. Not sure there were many Rams fans there. 100% not a lot of Rams fans there. I'd have to go, I haven't watched like that. the All-22 tape or even the game back. I just thought golf was terrible.

I mean, I talked about it earlier in the show. It didn't look like as many people were open. But again, their offense is not, you know, they don't have Cooper Cup. They have really no tight ends. Gurley is MIA. They're a play action throw deep offense. And that was just not going to happen against Belichick, whose defensive backs were so well coached, who were so seasoned.

I mean, Gilmore, while it's only a second season, he was in the Super Bowl last year, was an all pro this season. McCordy is one of the great champions of the Belichick area. His other McCordy made arguably the play of the Super Bowl. They have an undrafted free agent that's playing pretty well on defense. And obviously the two linebackers that are just really smart in Hightower and in Van Oye, that I think they threw Gough off. And Gough isn't good enough to get thrown off because he only has one pitch.

You know, he can't audible at the line. He doesn't have a great arm. He's not a great athlete. to get away. So again, as I talked about earlier in the show, he's just got to get better. You know, he's just got to get a lot better. So I would say that, you know, Goff wasn't necessarily missing. I don't think there were that many guys open.

I mean, clearly some of the pressures on Goff came because he would just sit in the pocket. He'd look, he'd look, he'd see no one. And then the guy would come. It wasn't like pressure was in his face at the snap of the fingers. I think it was just simply, Jared Goff wasn't ready for that game plan. And he shouldn't. I mean, it's Bill Belichick, greatest coach ever. The greatest defensive mind ever.

The greatest game planner ever. He should have, you know, taking Goff and McVey to the shed. The right thing happened yesterday. Belichick should beat McVeigh and Goff in their first ever Super Bowl. Now, if they play again in two years, maybe it's a different story. But in 2019, when it's Bill Belichick against those two, that I think if you combine their age, Goff's like 24 or 25, McVeigh is 33, they don't even equal Belichick's age.

I think if you combine their age, they're just a little over the amount of time that Belichick's been in the league. So I think at the end of the day, we shouldn't be that shock that Gough was pretty rattled. Hey, John, is it time team stop looking for the next McVeigh and start looking for the next Andy Reid? Not that McVeigh isn't a great coach, but Doug Peterson is clearly a tier higher. The Colts and the Bears have followed that higher and have success so far. I think it's all about the individual. I mean, some guys, some coaches are just better than others. to me, just because you're an assistant on McVeigh staff, does not mean you're good.

And just because your assistant on Andy's staff doesn't mean you're good. But if you are Andy's right-hand man, it's proven over and over and over again, more than likely you're going to be a good coach. Doug Peterson, obviously Matt Nagy, Coach of the Year, shot out, John Herbaugh, Ron Rivera, all these guys, Sean McDermott played huge roles on his staffs over the last, you know, 20 years. With McVeigh, we just don't have the resume, Are these guys going to be good? I think the better resume would be like,

should you go after Mike Shanahan guys? Look at Gary Kubiak, Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVeigh, you know? Maybe the move is, look at Mike Shanahan guys, not necessarily Sean McVeyer, because they're all just running Mike Shanahan's offense. His kid, like I said, Kubiak was a really good head coach.

Maybe he should look there more than just Zach Taylor. Is he going to be a good coach? I don't know. He's 35 years old. The chances of him being good to me are slim to none. let me mailbag question I'm banging these out mailback question Edelman MVP just won the with a great performance and possibly made the statement for Canton how do you think who do you think has a better chance of getting into the Hall of Fame

Edelman or Welker tough question and this has kind of been a polarizing you know segment of Twitter is Julian Edelman a Hall of Famer I think you pull up his stats page he's had two or three really good years and he's been unreal in the playoffs. I do put a lot of emphasis on his play in the playoffs. Here's what I know about Julie Edelman. If his career ended right now, I would view him as one thing and one thing only. A championship level player. Now, when you get into the Hall of Fame, I think that incorporates a little bit of your career. You as an individual, not necessarily your team success or even how good you were in playoff situations. Like Larry Fitzgerald is probably, you know, I mean,

Jerry Rice is probably the best, but the best playoff receiver ever. And he's never going to have a championship. career, like the total embodiment of it was so good that it's a no-brainer, right? You're like Larry Fitzgerald's a Hall of Famer. Edelman, like Fitzgerald, is just dominated in the playoffs. I mean, it's just his best happens in the playoffs.

I think he was a better playoff. I'd have to go and break the stats down. Him versus Welker, if I had a playoff game tomorrow with Brady in their peak, I would take Edelman. Now, when you look at Welker's stats for like 10 straight years, they were pretty unreal. I think we forget just how good Welker was.

and he was probably better start to finish of a season than Edelman. I'm biased, though. I love everything Julian stands for. I love how tough he is. Clearly how coachable he is. Let's not forget. Like, Belichick liked Welker, but they butted heads. You know, Welker had a little bit more of an individual persona, I guess.

Maybe that's the wrong way to put it. Just had his beliefs, and he wasn't afraid to say it, even if it was going to piss Bill off. Like, Bill and Jules are pretty tight. I mean, Julianne Edelman got to spend it this year. and it wasn't even really that big of a deal. Now it was a big of a deal when you fail a steroid test or whatever, but it's not a big deal necessarily like he wasn't doing anything bad that Bill cares about. And Bill just likes him.

Bill's confident in him. Bill feels that he can just go to war with him. So I would say that Edelman, he's only 32 years old. If he could put together three or four more years and win another championship, he'll probably end up getting in. I would say if his career ended today, it would be really difficult. Hey, John, you said in the last podcast, about Gruden possibly drafting a quarterback in the upcoming draft.

Why don't the Raiders draft for need in this year's draft and focus on a quarterback next year given the quality of quarterbacks who are coming out in the first couple rounds? I agree. I would not take a quarterback high. I don't think it's crazy if Gruden, which he clearly is going to, you know, like a Trace McSorley, a Gardner-Menshu drafting in the fourth or fifth round.

Because next year, if you're bad again, you can always choose to move on from Derek and draft a Trevor Lawrence or whoever, if you're drafting high the following season. I guess Lawrence is still two years away. A Tua. You know, whoever. Whoever is the top quarterback,

I don't think Tua is, but you know what I'm saying. I just think that you have to be in the mode of increasing your competition in the quarterback room. And Nathan Peterman and A.J. McCarran are just not going to get it done. Now, I would come back this season with Derek Carr. I would not trade them.

I would play with them. I would try to nail some draft. picks and be in position. But you do have to have a better backup quarterback than they have because right now their backup quarterback sucks. AJ McCarron's terrible and Nathan Peterman, you know, now it was hard. His team wasn't very good. Well, actually, they weren't terrible.

It was one of the worst quarterbacks we've ever seen. Two years ago they were a playoff team, right? The Bills. And the one game that almost knocked him out of the playoffs was a game that he played against the charges where he threw like five picks in the first half. And A.G. McCarran is just trash. So I just think that Gardner Menchu or Trace McChorely, a guy like that, if you're not going to go quarterback high and you're going to bring Derek back,

just bring in competition and bring in a guy that you can have for a while. Not necessarily be a starter, but just be a high-level competition. The 49ers did it a couple years ago with C.J. Bethard. They took a guy in the third round. He's serviceable, and it turns out he ended up getting beat out by Nick Mullins. But when you draft a guy, third round is probably a little high. But in the first, second, or third round, you kind of got to force him to pull. When he dropped a guy in the fourth or fifth, like Connor Cook, it's kind of easy to move on, you know, with.

Hey, John, lifelong Packer fan. After the LaFleur hire, the rest of the world learned what us Packers diehard had known for years. Mike Murphy's ego is the size of Lake Michigan. God, it is pretty big. And he installed Gutakins as his puppet director. I like where this is going. Gutikins is sharp, but he's beta male. God.

Whereas Murphy is such a meathead. and it's clear to us now that he's overruling Goudicans on personnel and it's killing the team. LaFleur isn't ready to coach the Wisconsin Badgers, let alone Rodgers and the Packers. Wisconsin Badgers is a sneaky, pretty big job. Do you see LaFleur and Rogers' engagement leading to a marriage or a bloody divorce? We keep Jimmy Graham at $5 million for two T-D-E-Contin 18. He can't block, he's slower than shit, and his hands are bricks at this stage of his career. Am I crazy, or is the Packers off-season already in a death spiral?

I hate the coach, I. Now, I'm judging a lot off a press conference and what a guy did in a one-year situation when he was new to a franchise to be a coordinator. But he'd never been a coordinator before that, and he was terrible this year in Tennessee. It was really bad. His press conference clearly overmatched. Look nervous. Again, the Packers is one of the biggest jobs, not just in football, but in all of sports.

I mean, it's one of the most high-public-profile jobs, probably in our country, right? You're the head coach of the Green Bay Packers. It's like being the coach of the Yankee or manager of the Yankees, coach of the Lakers. I mean, it's a big deal. Coach of the Steelers. So, yeah, I didn't like to hire. I didn't know much about Murphy.

You clearly kind of, if you follow the team day to day, you just, like, I know a lot about the Niners and Raiders. Their personalities inside the building. Fans, if you follow your team, you just have a good feel for that. And then I think the country, whenever you make a big move, like, God, why won't this Murphy guy shut up? And like you said, his egos goes huge. So will he let Goudicans make decisions?

Here's the problem with a guy like Murphy is he played football. So he's going to think he has some knowledge of what works and what doesn't work. And then he was an AD and he's hired a coach. So the guy was a home run hire, right? Pat Fitzgerald. So he thinks he knows what he's doing. He's got a pretty good, in his mind, feel for how to operate. So are they in a death spiral?

I would not say that because he still have one of the best players in the league the most important position in Aaron Rogers. Is their roster flawed? Yeah. You know, I mean, do they have a Belko running back? You know, I would say no. Their offensive line's good. Their quarterback's a star.

Devante's a star. Like you said, Jimmy's a shell of what he once was. Randall Cobb is surely going to be gone. Number 83, I can't even think of his name, but he's got three names. He's pretty good player. They always draft well. I do like some of their pieces on defense. You know, the rookie corner they had this year is really good.

They got two first round picks in this draft. They need to cut Clay, which I'm sure he's gone. Their defense, actually, I didn't think, when I watched in the season, played that poorly. But if the coach, if it turns out, like we all think just watching that press conference, he is over his head, they're in trouble. Like, who's to say, now, Rogers is probably so good that if you play 16 games, you know, it would be hard to win three or four games.

you'd probably still end up at six or seven. But let's call it what it is. You win six or seven games next year, and Aaron Rogers starts 16. That's going to be a major disappointment. Probably no new head coach when you look around the league, Brian Flores, Kingsbury, Ariens. You know, who am I missing here?

I'm sure I'm missing a team. The Jets guy, Adam Gage. No coach is going to have the pressure quite like LaFleur is going to have in Green Bay because you've got Aaron Rogers. You got Aaron Freakin Rogers in the peak of his powers making like $30 million a year. Fans and just people around the league are going to expect you to win. Whether that's fair or not, whether there should be a transitional period. It's hard to have a transitional period when you go all in on an all-time quarterback.

So I've said this before. I don't think it's that crazy. I do think this has potential to be one and done. If I had to go one, one and done from this group, 1,000, not counting, like if a dude gets a DUI or something crazy happens, right? Not counting something like that. And you wouldn't even get fired for a DUI. But you know what I'm saying?

Some crazy controversy where you had to fire the coach. Or a guy like leaves or something. I'm saying where the guy legitimately gets fired like Steve Wilkes did this year. One and done. Like Jim Tom Sula. One and done. It would be LaFleur. Because relative to the pressure.

Now I don't think he's got to go like two and 14 to go one and done. I think he'd go one and done like five and 11. Don't ever forget. And listen, I'm not saying LaFleur is Jim Tom Sula, but Jim Tom Sulla would probably be the example of the laughing stock coach, right, of a one and done. He did go five and 11, but it was so bad and just such a joke and the team looked so bad. Like to me, there's a huge eye test with this. That's what the Cardinals had.

There was just this eye test like, this guy doesn't know what he's doing. And Wilkes is clearly smarter, can give a better press conference or whatever than Tom Sula. But what if LaFleur, let's just say, he goes 5 and 11 and Rogers playing all the games the offense is terrible the defense gets worse and they're just awful I truly believe if I was a betting man right now he would be the one now I'm not not saying I'm right I'm not saying that's going to happen because Rogers could win the MVP and they could win 10 games and make the playoffs but I also think it's got one and done potential especially like you said Murphy's huge ego does Gudecans even have any power is lefoor going to have any juice

in the draft room are they going to force players on them this has all the makings of sneaky disaster. Okay, last question here on the Middle Coff mailbag. Big fan since I've been found your podcast through Colin. I've been consistently listening to yourself. Appreciate it. I'm 25 years old. The Lions have not won a playoff game in my lifetime.

Will we make it to an NFC championship game in my life? This is a pretty good question. So you're 25. People live a little longer these days, so I'll give you 85. So you've got 60 more years of life. The odds, the way the league is saying. set up, you would think in the next 60 years, at least they'd win a playoff game. Because if you consistently suck, you're bound to get the number one overall pick, and just

the odds would say you're bound to get a quarterback. You did have a quarterback Matt Stafford, and you've, I think, made the playoffs three times in his career. And you played in a tight game. I know the one year against the Cowboys, what was that, like four or five years ago, when Sue was crying after the game. So, you know, you've come close. NFC championship game feels a little bold.

the one problem you have is the Packers, I would say why the odds are decent. The Packers have had such, I mean, like a 25-year run. So, as I just, the question I just answered, wouldn't they spiral and kind of fall off with under Murphy's leadership for the next five or six? Which is kind of hard to see because they got Rogers. Let's just say after Aaron Rogers leaves,

they're not able to replace them, so they come back to Earth. We don't know if Mitch Trubiskey's good or not. The Vikings are kind of, you know, smoke and mirrors in the sense that the most important player on their team, I mean, on any team is a quarterback. His cousin's really that good.

He's not bad, but he makes so much money. They're going to be able to afford a little bit, so they might come back to Earth a little bit. I don't think it's that crazy. You know, when you took back during the Packers, the Bears and the Vikings. The Bears probably be a little better consistently because I believe of the three coaches.

I mean, Zimmer, how many more years are going to coach? He's pretty old. Nagy's going to be there for a while. And Packers, like I said, I'm not very confident in what they got going. I do think there's a chance in the next 60 years. You win a playoff game. I'll go out on a limb here.

You will win a playoff game in the next 60 years. NFC championship, now you'd say this. What are the odds that it's one year in the next 60 that the Lions get a home field by? So that would mean they'd only have to win one game to get to the championship game. You'd say probably the next 60 years that happens one time. I would lean. I will lean right now. will make a championship game in your lifetime.

Now, it might not be a deal with you're 60, so you might have to wait a while, but that's what makes sports fun. In all seriousness, I feel a little bad for you, because I was always a Stafford guy, but I've been humbled a little bit. Humbled, probably the wrong word. I've come to the realization

that he just, you know, he's just not going to win playoff games with that guy. He's probably good enough, just good enough for you to lose, and just good enough for you to have to pay. I mean, it's probably the worst situation you can be in in sports, but you'll be fine. Just keep swinging.

You know, the Tigers have won your World Series. You were young, so what was that, like 14 years? You were really young when the Pistons won a World's NBA Championship. You know, Harbaugh might win you one. So you'll be all right, you know. But I feel your pain, bro. I grew up on the Niners, so by the time I was 10, I'd already seen, like, multiple Super Bowls.

So I'm probably a little bit of a spoiled, you know, football fan in my youth. but then watching the 49ers and Raiders throughout the 2000s as a college student and then doing this in the media the last several years, I've come back to Earth. But again, I appreciate everyone listening. Keep your questions coming. Middlecoff mailbag every week at John Middlecoff. Slide up in those DMs and I'll answer your questions right here.

Thanks again, everyone for listening. We're going to keep pumping out two pods. Mainly I just don't have that much to do and I like talking football, so why not just talking to a mic? I'm going to talk anyway. Might as well press record. And I'll see you guys a little later this week. Peace.

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and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear.

Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref.

My mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, Brett. My mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at?

Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest. surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments.

If we didn't talk ever again, I was hungry. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come until he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.