The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers, Russell Westbrook, and evolving

Episode Date: March 21, 2019

Colin explains why Pittsburgh Steelers QB Ben Roethlisberger has the qualities of a bad leader, proof Oklahoma City Thunder G Russell Westbook has shown who he really is, and why people need to evolve in sports or be lost. Guests include Mark Schlereth, Geoff Schwartz, Matt Barnes, and Marcellus Wiley. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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on the IHart Radio app by searching Hurd. Now let's get to You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Ah, here we go on a Thursday. We are packed today. A lot of football. This in L.A. is The Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening live, Los Angeles, IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1.

It is absolutely great to have you here today. I was in Seattle yesterday for some stuff, some sales stuff for Fox Sports, and Joy Taylor is joining me. Joy, how are you? Great. Good morning. Happy March Madness. Happy March Madness. Talk about that later.

Pittsburgh's often a topic on this show. Joy is from there, but it's the home of the Steelers, of course. And over the last two to three to four to five weeks, months, forever, I don't know, we've heard a lot of noise out of the Pittsburgh Steelers. And what happens in situations like this is everybody takes aside. I'm a Labian Bell guy. I'm an Antonio Brown guy. I'm a big Ben guy. I'm a Mike Tomlin guy. Last two, three years, there's been a lot of noise out of the Pittsburgh Steelers. an organization I have a ton of respect for. But this is proving my point. I don't want people taking sides in a locker room. This is on Ben.

For all of you who are defending Ben Rathesberger, what the Steelers are, one word this morning, polarizing. Seattle won a Super Bowl. Then their locker room got divided. Then the GM and the coach said, let's get the people that aren't on board with Russell Wilson out. They did.

They rebooted Seattle back to the playoffs. The opposite of leadership is divisive. Polarization is great for talk show hosts. It can be good for some politicians. You galvanize your base and you pick on the other side. Social media, Kardashians. Polarization is great in many businesses. not in locker rooms.

And Ben divides a locker room. He won't reach down to the young guys in comment. He doesn't get along with all his stars. He's sort of a rigid personality, doesn't want to evolve, wants to do it his way. But more than anything, it's simply dividing the locker room. Levian Bell used to be a stealer, not a stealer. Said Ben wants to win, but Ben wants to win his way. It's tough to play that way.

Ben won a Super Bowl, but that's when he was younger. Now he's at the stage where he tries to control everything, and the team let him get there. Yes, that's a problem. I never hear that about Drew Brees. I never hear that about Tom Brady. By the way, there's three quarterbacks in this league who are unbelievably talented,

but I would call them polarizing. Ben, Aaron Rogers, and recently, Carson Wentz. Carson Wentz, you've got to do better, bro. You can't be polarizing. I don't care how talented you are and you're talented. Aaron Rogers, well documented. But Big Ben's the leader in the clubhouse. Whether you're for or against Big Ben,

you can't have teammates for, Brady, against Brady. Everybody's all in on Drew Breeze. The coaches love him, the owner loves him, the GM loves him, the rookies love him, the veterans love him. Guys retire, they're crying about him. That's because Drew Breeze goes out of his way to get off the stage, get out of his mansion and reach down and do a selfie and a high five with the kids. Learn their music, learn their lingo, learn their likes.

You can't be polarizing. Carson Wentz, Aaron Rogers and Ben and Ben more than all of them, everybody's taking sides. And it doesn't matter if you're taking Ben's side. I think he's great. But this is not what quarterbacks do. Leadership matters. I don't care if my running backs a goofball. I don't care if my wide receivers, a diva.

I really care if my quarterback is. That's why I care about all those combine stories that come out about quarterbacks. I did worry about hearing about Big Ben early in his career with women. I did worry early in Cam Newton's career when I heard about the goofy stuff he did in college. I did worry about Baker and Johnny Mansell and James Winston. Because in the end, most of that stuff is a habit and it's a DNA and it's a personality and it's who you are and it reemerges. But everybody here is siding with somebody, which is, proving my point. Picking sides

equals divided. I want you to pick sides on me. Love him, hate him. I don't want you to be indifferent. Kardashians feel the same. Trump made two. There are industries where division is a rallying point. It galvanizes your fans against your haters, but

it's not a quarterback. That's not what it is. It's, by the way, we have Lavian Bell talking here about Ben as a teammate and it's just I just this sounds like polarization to me and and then like gym you're like he's like it's like they all like it's like they all like they're all on the same level than everybody else is like lower okay so it's been the GM and then all the rest of the players in a sense well that's the vibe I got that just feel like if we're teammates we're teammates

we're all the same we're all the same thing we're all the same thing And you felt like you weren't even with Ben. Ben, you know, Ben has been. He's the quarterback. At the time, I'm thinking that's how I'm supposed to be. He's supposed to be like that. Like, don't know if you're on quarterbacks are leaders. And, yeah, everybody's going to quarterback.

It is what it is. But it's like, it's still, you're still a teammate. At the end of day, you're not, you know what I'm saying? You're not Kevin Colbert. Right. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I understand.

We're still teammates. Was that a factor why you didn't want to? to stay in Pittsburgh. That was part of it. Your relationship with him. Yeah. It was a back done. And you wanted it to be different in a way. Like we're friends. Like we teammates. And you did not feel that way.

Yeah, very good interview, by the way, by Jenny Vrentis at Sports Illustrate. She did a really good job with this interview. And Lavian's right. Like leadership's hard. Like when you manage a company, manage a law firm, manage a hospital, manage a landscaping company. New employee, wears you out. You know, crazy kids.

But leadership is coming off the stage and relating to people. And it doesn't matter how much money you have and how many rings you have. Drew Breeze and Brady, you just don't hear this. Ben, come off the stage. Evolve a little. Like, you're a teammate. You're not a general manager. What have I knocked LeBron for this year?

I've been defending LeBron for 15 years. LeBron this year, I'm rich, I'm up here. I want to do. LeBron had a lousy year of leadership. 28, 8, and 8, still a great player. This is on Ben. It is. And I love him, but it's on Ben. I don't hear this with Breeze, and I don't hear this with Brady. And I don't hear this with Philip Rivers. You are still a player wearing a helmet. GMs don't wear helmets. Quarterbacks, even rich ones with rings do. Let me shift to this. Eventually, I was sitting with a therapist one time, and he said, change is hard.

He goes, Colin, you want to change. And most of your habits, the real you comes out. You can modify them, temper them, but people are what they are. You know, a kid that grows up talkative is going to be talkative. If you've had a temper your entire life, hard to shut it off at 42. Maybe cannabis helps, I don't know. But in the end, the real you comes out. That's why you have to call for references for jobs like what she like, what's he like.

Because people can fool you for six months. You know, you get into a relationship and flowers and movies, but the real you, you the real them comes out. And you can suppress who you are for only so long. So two weeks ago, Oklahoma City was in the third spot catbird seat in the West. Paul George was an MVP candidate. I said my MVP, and Westbrook was being an excellent teammate. He was passing and shooting less. Today they've lost four straight.

Now they're an eighth seed. Paul George is no longer an MVP candidate. And Westbrook's shooting a lot. Oklahoma City was about ready to play a seven seed, a six seed home court advantage. As of this morning, they will open with the Golden State Warriors and get swept. It should be noted in the West. Houston is on fire. They've won 12 of 14.

Denver's won four straight. Clippers of won eight of nine. San Antonio 9 of 10 in Utah's finally got their act together. It is a bad time to get cold. By the way, five of the next 10 games for Oklahoma City are tough. At Toronto, Denver, Houston at home at Milwaukee. And Memphis is sneaky good lately at home. They could lose all five of those games.

And here we go again. Westbrook, end of the year, is unraveling. Because he always unravels. Because you can only suppress what you are for so long. Has an off-season, chills out in, you know, Los Angeles, takes a deep breath in a good mood. But the season and an injury and a losing streak, Westbrook, my friends, is a sprinter,

and the NBA season is a marathon. And over time, he wears out teammates. He wears out his coach. He wears out the staff. He wears out the media. He wears out himself. Four straight losses. Eight in the West, open with the Warriors. Paul George, not his factor. Westbrook shooting more. Not quite the teammate he was even three, four weeks ago. At some point, all you Westbrook fans, you'll have to acknowledge, you know, facts and stuff. stuff. It's happening like it has the last two years. He's unraveling at the end of the season. For the record, I totally supported him in Utah. That fan was a jerk, got thrown out, should have. Then a couple of days later, he's doing a near headbutt with Clay Thompson, gets him suspended for a game, a game at home against a bad team Miami. They lost and dropped to eighth. For their next 10, they'll be underdogs, and the Memphis game on the road, Memphis is sneaky good lately at home. Sorry, but you can only suppress what you are for so long.

OKC and Westbrook, unraveling again as the playoffs are right around the corner. Coming up next, there are times when I know I'm not a sorcerer or a wizard, and the information appears to be right there for everybody. but I've got to ask the question of the week on this show. What am I missing? What am I missing here? Because I'm looking at a piece of paper in front of me and everybody's freaking out and maybe you can explain it to me

because I don't get it. And I know I'm not a wizard and I know I'm not a sorcerer and I can't fly and I don't have x-ray vision. It appears to be obvious. And why am I the only person that's going to say this? That's coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. On Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies,

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And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast. podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tript Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we

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on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free. iHeartRadio app search learn the hard way and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back.

Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levan, this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On hurdle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WNBA standout, Kate Martin,

and rising hockey star, Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces. that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't feel on. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladecki.

The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up.

even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Casper Mattress guarantees a great night's sleep. Casper.com code heard 100 bucks toward the purchase of select mattresses. Additional fees for Alaska and Hawaii terms and conditions apply. I flew up to Seattle yesterday. Good Lord, was it pretty? Not a cloud in the sky. Mount Rainier. Look beautiful. Good to have you in today. So, you know, here's what's funny.

I tend to think I'm kind of a wet blanket on big news. I think everybody overreacts. I'm not a millennial. I'm not 20 years old. I've seen everything a thousand times. There's no new stories. I love my job. But I'm not some millennial on the internet that freaks out because one player goes to one team and one player goes to, I mean, hell, last week, OBJ goes to Cleveland.

You got the Browns in the Super Bowl. Oh, stop it. This is an owner-GM coach league. You think the Browns are elite at those positions? I'm kind of the opposite of the hot take guy, which is there's, you know, I have strong opinions, but here's become the recent NFL hot take. The Steelers are going to be terrible. Okay.

Kansas City, nobody is bailing on Kansas City this morning. NFL.com came out with their power rankings yesterday. Kansas City's sixth, and they're behind great teams, right? They're behind the Patriots and the Rams and. Kansas City is sixth. Kansas City has lost a star receiver Tyreek Hill. Fastest player in the league. You can't duplicate him.

Two very good pass rushers, Justin Houston, D. Ford. Houston had nine sacks and 12 games. Star running back Kareem Hunt and about to be a Hall of Fame eventual safety, Eric Barry. Five guys, playmakers. Kansas City's in a division with the stacked playoff chargers. lost five top players in a historically tough division where the Raiders are way better

and the Broncos I think upgraded at quarterback and everybody's still picking Kansas City. The Steelers on NFL.com this morning are 18th officially a bad football team because they lost Antonio Brown. They're in a division with hit and miss Baltimore, awful Cincinnati, historically chaotic Cleveland.

And you think Pittsburgh's just, it's over. Let me ask you, who has the best offensive line in the NFL currently? It's one of two teams, saints or Steelers. NFL offensive lines matter? Is the quarterback good, Big Ben? Yep. Do they still have a number one wide receiver? Oh, yeah, Kansas City no longer does.

How are they getting to the quarterback? Well, they were top two in the NFL in Sacks last year, beat New England. How is their ownership? Excellent. General manager. folks, Kansas City lost five players in a tougher division. Denver's not historically chaotic. The chargers are well run.

Everybody still likes Kansas City. Pittsburgh lost one wide receiver. They didn't have Libyan Bill there last year. The overreaction to Antonio Brown is remarkable. This league is about ownership, Steelers A. GM, Steelers A. quarterback, Steelers, A-minus. They led the NFL over second in sacks.

Best offensive lines. Still have a number one receiver. Talk about overreaction. You think Pittsburgh's going to become Tampa? This morning, Pittsburgh's Jacksonville? Is that what you're Pittsburgh's Oakland? I mean, you've got to be kidding me. Are people paying attention?

What wins in this league? They got a veteran Super Bowl winning coach, Pittsburgh. best offensive line in football along with the Saints. Excellent quarterback. He's not A-plus. I think he's more A-minus. A little bit of drama, but he's still an A-quarterback. In a division with historic whack-a-doos, Cincinnati and Cleveland.

Kansas City lost five dudes. Tougher division. Nobody's backed off. I mean, I like Patrick Mahomes, too. He's not Superman. I mean, who's better right now? Mahomes or Ben, even if you like Mahomes. It's not like Mahomes here.

Ben way down here. You can't replace Tyreek Hill. How is Kansas City going to replace D. Ford and Justin Houston? You think Kareem Hunt was easy to replace? Mahomes wasn't the same quarterback last six weeks without him. Eric Barry, no longer a top player, but there was some leadership skills in the locker room with him, don't you think? Eric's a pretty good leader, read his story, pretty remarkable.

Pretty remarkable player in his prime. No longer is, but he brought something to the table, didn't he? For the record, I like Kansas City to still win their division. but I also like Pittsburgh to still win theirs. Joy Taylor with the News. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

So after this questionable Lakers season, L.A. will once again aim at pairing LeBron with another star. But according to Bill Orm of the athletic, many experts expect other stars to follow in Paul George's footsteps. He said after Paul George ignored the Lakers last summer, most league insiders believe the biggest names in this year's loaded class of free agents will follow his lead. If the Lakers can't successfully build a roster around LeBron this summer, it's fair to wonder whether they will ever be able to maximize his powers before it's too late. Interesting piece of words there in powers.

You know, think about this joy. Yonness has said I don't want to leave. Paul George didn't leave. Damien Lurge said I don't want to leave. We have this belief because Kevin Durant's kind of flaky and LeBron's move that everybody's like that. But if you polled most Americans, I just read a story about this two months ago. People are less mobile now than you think. There was this 10, 12-year run in America where everybody was moving around.

But in the end, people like to be close to their parents. And they kind of like where they grew up. And Janice and Damien Lillard and, by the way, Tony Parker never left and Duncan never left. And Magic never left. And Michael never left until the end. Well, me, it's not always greener on the other side. And I don't criticize Kevin Durant or LeBron for leaving their situation. they wanted to win and it's a team sport.

And if your organization has shown that they aren't capable of putting players around you to help you maximize your potential, I mean, look at Odell. Why are we all happy that Odell is in Cleveland of all places? Because we feel like he can do some winning there. And as fans, it's not really enjoyable to watch someone of a superstar, a historic great talent, not maximize. Well, what's happening with the Lakers is interesting, though, because LeBron talked a little bit about their recruiting pitch

and, you know, they really want to win. But I feel like if you are a free agent that is going to make the move to the Lakers, you're in win now mode as well. Because it's not a long-term build what the Lakers are doing. You've got to land like two guys. Well, you have to land two guys for sure. You have to land a superstar free agent and then an incredible role player. Yeah.

And I don't know if the Lakers are going to be able to do that. There's a lot of good names out there, and there's no guarantee that Anthony Davis is going to be a part of that either. So Murray State's John Warren is having a heck of a season this year. He's averaging 24.6 points, 10 assists, and 5.5 boards per game. We had Murray State's their second consecutive NCAA tournament. And CBS sports analyst Clark Kellogg had a comparison for Morant. He said his athleticism is comparable to a lot of guys, a bigger Alan Iverson, Russell Westbrook,

in terms of speed athleticism in the open court. I think Clark Kellogg nailed it 100%. That's exactly what he is. Really? Yeah, I think he's absolutely. So when I watch him, he is, Clark Kellogg said it better than I could have. He's a bigger Alan Iverson. He's Russell Westbrook.

That's exactly what he is. And in fact, I think at this point in his game, he's a little better than Westbrook. That doesn't mean anything because Westbrook worked really hard in his game. But this is like, and we've talked about this, the media will love this player. This will not be a great winning basketball player long term. But he will come in, get a shoe deal, make a bunch of money. He'll be fun. He'll have a great career.

He's a great wildly. But he's a score first point guard. that is going to be, the two guard and the three wing are going to be like, hey, I'm over here on the, I'm over here. Well, he is incredibly athletic and he does have a high motor. Well, Morton had the perfect response. He said, I love that. Really, I've just tried to stay grounded and stay where I'm at. I'm at Murray State and I'm just trying to win a championship.

He's fun. He's fun to watch. He didn't get too far ahead of himself with his iconic comparisons. Yes. Listen, there's two players in college basketball that you watch and you're like, wow, Zion and this kid. Now, the other guys at Duke are really good. Right. And there's some really nice players out there.

No, but he's a really exciting player, though. You don't have to be an NBA scout to go, oh, he's an NBA player. Right. You walk into a gym. And there's discussions about him going number two. He's probably going to go in the top three. And finally, more incoming NFL players are making business decisions. And I like that.

Ohio State defensive end Nick Fossa decided he wouldn't try and return from injury before the 2018 season ended. And he decided not to participate in his pro day work. out. And his reasoning was, I just trust the people close to me. And they said it was unimportant. I got to do what's smart for me. He had a good combine, right? So why do it? I mean, look, like, anything that he does is just going to put him at risk for an additional injury. He was out for most of the season. You got injured in the third week with a core muscle injury. So I don't see any benefit to that. Like, right now, most of the mock drafts have him going in the top three. Why risk it? Everything that you need to do is on tape.

We talk about it all the time. The Combine is, well, it's fun to watch. It's really just a glorified track meet. Right. Like, it's great for your prospects who haven't been able to pop on the scene yet. But for someone like Nick Bosa, it doesn't benefit you in any way. There's nothing you're going to do with the Combine or your pro day that's going to convince someone that, oh, I think I should take you in the top of the job. Like, he was rumored to be the number one overall pick before we started talking about Kyler Murray.

So it doesn't benefit him in any way. Everything he needs to prove is already on tape. He also plays outside of quarterback a really. really big position, Edge Rusher, which has become the second most important position, according to GMs in the league. Everybody in the league is looking for a quarterback, and then once you get him, like, Indianapolis,

they got like $100 million all they're trying to find to pass rusher. And that's what, that's why San Francisco. Oh, that is, get a quarterback. He'll likely end up in San Francisco. Yeah. His brother, I was hit and miss on, because the Bosa family's got a little track record.

There's some ego here. And when Joey came out, Ohio State, there were games he didn't play well. There were games he was great. And I was like, he's hit and miss. There were some rumors about his personal life. He ended up being a great player. He's been a great player.

Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd Lie News. Let's bring in Mark Slare with three-time Super Bowl champ, a multiple-time pro bowler with the Redskins and the Broncos or radio show in Denver. By the way, Denver's had crazy weather.

I was in Colorado two weeks ago, and I got stuck in the Vale Airport for nine hours. Oh, hey. the call. It's just crazy. What a jerk? He comes to Colorado? You don't even call. Well, I was there skiing for a charity event. All right. All right. So I'm going to play you two pieces of tape. Okay.

And I want you to react to both pieces of tape. Now, this is Labian Bell, former Steeler, talking about Ben's leadership or lack thereof. So let's play this tape for Mark Slareth. It's like Ben and then like Jim. You know what I'm saying? He's like, it's like, it's like, they all, like, it's like they're all on the same level than everybody else is like lower. Okay, so it's Ben, the GM, and then all the rest of the players. In a sense.

Well. That's the vibe I got. I just feel like if we're teammates, we're all on the same thing. We're all on the same thing. And you felt like you weren't even with Ben. Ben is, you know, Ben is Ben is Ben, he's the quarterback. At the time, I'm thinking that's how it's supposed to be. He's supposed to be like that.

Like, we're on quarterback's your leader. and yeah, everybody goes to the quarterback. It is what it is. But it's like, it's still, you're still a teammate. At the end of day, you're not, you know what I'm saying? You're not Kevin Colbert. Right. You know what I'm saying?

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I understand. Was that a factor why you didn't want to stay in Pittsburgh? That was part of it. Your relationship with him. Yeah, it was a factor. And you wanted it to be different in a way? Like we're friends.

Like we're teammates. And you did not feel. feel that way. All right, Mark, what do you make of that? Well, I mean, I understand that from an organizational standpoint, if you allow a player to have that kind of authority, most players are going to accept that kind of authority. Like, you can sit there and criticize Ben, and you know what? Levyon Bell is 100% right. If you put yourself above your teammates. You're still wearing a helmet. Right. But if you put yourself above your teammates, it's not the right thing to do. As a quarterback, you have to deflect 100% of the praise when it comes

your way and you got to think the big uglies up front, your running backs and your receivers and all those things. And then when you lose, you've got to accept 100% of the responsibility. Ben has never been a 100 guy. Okay? So that part is that part. But from an organizational standpoint, like most guys, like, you know, you can criticize. Kevin Colbert for saying, you know, it's the babysitting or there's a bunch of children that we're watching and all this kind of stuff. You can criticize that.

You can criticize guys for saying that. But from an organizational structure standpoint, if you don't squash that uprising, because if you give Ben or you give LeBron oversight of what you're doing, you don't see the picture from 20,000 feet. You see it from court level or field level. Right.

And there's a different look. You're not looking beyond your career. you're just looking at your career. That's a selfishness, and the Steelers have allowed that selfishness to happen with a bunch of their players. So I put that, like, he may lack some leadership skills. I'll give you that, and he does. Yes. But I put it more on the organization for allowing, you're either coaching it or you're allowing it to happen,

and they're allowing it to happen. By the way, it should be noted. Belichick has even publicly taken shots at Brady, like when his birthday, it's like, he's just one birthday. New England goes out of its way, perhaps to a fault, because Brady on his Tom versus Time, remember that moment Joy when he said, Giselle said, he'd just like to feel occasionally respected. I would argue New England's almost gone a little too far and constantly chipping away at the stump of Brady. But to your point is there is an elevation that bends above the team.

I always go back to this in football. Are you wearing a helmet? Then you're a player. Right. You may be a rich player, but in the end, Big band benefits from Antonio, Labian, and his left tackle. John Elway and Denver,

did you take you guys out for stakes? Right. And he was an icon. Right. Here's the thing. I come from Washington after six years in Washington, and I was on Super Bowl championship team there in Washington, a member of the hogs and all that, right?

So kind of an iconic group. When I went to Denver, I just kind of sat back and just observed. Like, who is John Elway? Because in the eyes of the world, he had the right to be a prima donna oh he was the biggest star in the league he and joe yeah he and marino but let me tell you what what we had to do work wise if we're running of we're running hundreds john's out there running if we're lifting i'll never forget one time

we're doing this leg press thing and our coach was rich toot and he was leaning on this and we hated it it was the hammer leg press and he'd lean on it and it was like you get off and your legs would be shaking you know it'd be like that scene from zoolander oh involuntary spasm enjoyed the So, you know, it was ridiculous. And John sits down to do it, and I'm in this group, you know, we're waiting, you know, taking turns. And he's like, you realize that if I refuse to do this, I'm still going to make the team, right? You do realize. And then he did it anyhow, right?

That's who he was. So I always respect the guys that have earned the right to be prima donnas and aren't prima donnas. Drew Brees. That to me is a leadership. That's a leadership asset. Drew Brees, one of the hardest working guys I've ever been around. And I've only had the opportunity, the pleasure of being around him a few times in that. environment but let me tell you everybody's in on him first guy on the field last guy to leave doing

the exercise doing the work doing the extra stuff that it takes to be great i'm going to play a second bite from labian bell he's talking about the steelers didn't let him be a little more human and stuff let's play this tape like they don't you're human what i mean by that is like i'm yeah i'm an NFL athlete but it's still i'm a human being you know what i'm saying so like i still play video games. I'll still make music. It's like they don't want to like allow you to be yourself for real. It's like they want you to be

if you're a stealer like you're literally supposed to be playing football 24-7. You're not supposed to be playing video games and like making music playing basketball. You're not supposed to be doing that. You're supposed to be working out. What do you make of that? Well

I mean one, welcome to the NFL. I mean we're paying you a handsome fee for you to be a football player. And that's what we expect. And to as much as given, much as expected. And I would say this, that there are certain guys you have to monitor a little closely. Has he not been suspended several times for drug use? Not total committed.

So, I mean, those guys... I thought that comment, by the way, and I like Levian, I thought it was a bunch of hooey. Pittsburgh is very pro player. Absolutely. By the way, New England's considered like the rigid stepdad of the NFL, Gronk, Wes Welker, and Tom Brady. They seem to have a good time. Like, there is a point where we can't defend players at every turn.

If you make $14 million a year. Right. We're going to ask for a 50-hour work week. By the way, NFL players, almost all of them, unless you get to the Super Bowl, from January 10th to May 10th, you don't work. Then you have a three-day OTA. Then you don't work for two more months.

there's a it's not like baseball where you have 20 games spring training 162 you go to the playoffs and by the way then you go to winter league to get your swing down here's here's what I always say just because you play a pro sport doesn't make you a professional and the rules the rules in the NFL that are established by the team are really established for the five guys that you know aren't mature enough to handle themselves those rules were made because you have stepped outside the realm of those rules and gotten suspended several times. I tell my, I've told this to people before, is that if you think about laws, there's never

been a law made for me. Right. Because I'm not a rule breaker. Like I make sure I don't jaywalk. Like I don't, I don't. So laws are not made for me. Laws are made for like 5% of the public that just can't follow rules. They're rule breakers.

They speed. They jaywalk. They rob stuff or they do inappropriate stuff. 90% of the world, 95% of people you'll meet in your life, you don't need laws. I'm not going to rush through a line. I'm not going to and I, to your point, mostly you have rules in the locker room for four guys. Right. That's what you do. For those jaywalking guys. Yeah. And everyone,

Jaywalking is a big crime. Right. I mean, robbing someone's house, jaywalking. Right. It's all, hey, listen, it's all, it's all relative. You know, you're 100% right. There's always, like we say in every locker room, there's five touch guys, you know? We all know who they are, right? We all know who the five touch guys are. Right. Those are who the rules are made for. And, and they still have a tough time. They still jump over the line. I mean, that's, that's who those guys are. And for the rest of us, you know, we've got to, we've got to fall into line and basically, you know, kind of scoot them along. And so that's like, if you're not mature enough to handle yourself, we're going to have to watch you.

Yeah. I like, I like Laby. This sounded a lot like, like, like whining. It's like, you know, they won't let me be human. No, they don't want you to have a Facebook account. Your Facebook live during a football game or locker room. That's not taking away your humanity. Like, all right, stick around. Couple of things to talk about. Dallas Cowboys made a move.

Second wave of free agency. Dwayne Haskins had us pro day. Mark's got thoughts on that as well. So do I. Don't go anywhere. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd. Weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. By the way, watched the movie last night in the flight home from Seattle.

It's called The Wife with Glenn. Glenn Close. I thought it was fascinating. Really? I thought it was, first of all. I've seen it on the movies, on the plane, and I was thinking about it. Oh, that's on my way home now. It's about an hour, 55, perfect. I literally took off in Seattle, watched it overlanded.

By the way, Glenn Close, holy Lord, can she act? Oh, she's phenomenal. She made me the world's best actor. By the way, Mission Impossible is the third best movie ever, and Glenn Colos is the best actress, actor I've ever seen. I think you will have. many more people in your corner on the Glenn Close thing. It was a big snub that she did not.

She's, I mean, gosh, she's just... I finished the favorite last night. How was that? It was good. I almost got that, but I saw Glenn Close. She's one of the five people in the world that makes me buy a movie. Gosh, she's good. Speaking of great movies, did you guys see Green Book?

Yes. Yeah. That was tremendous. Yeah. My wife and I went the other day. It was tremendous. Yeah. Tremendous movie.

All right, let's go into this. So you have free agency. Everybody's just throwing money around and throwing money around. But go back to last year. Nobody talked about Eric Ebroe onto the Colts. That was a good signing. Nobody talked about Mike pouncing to the Chargers. That was a pretty good signing.

So yesterday, the Cowboys go out and sign Randall Cobb. It's the second wave of free agency. And I'm sitting there thinking, that's pretty good, right? Right. I thought it was a good signing, right? Really good. Now, the second wave of free agency is like for frugal people. The first wave, that's the Rodeo drive.

People that overspend, you know, they spend $800 for a purse when you could buy it for $100. The second wave of free agency, I'll make this argument, Mark, it's underrated. You're getting guys that usually have a little baggage, old, a little bit of injury. They paid nothing for Randall Cobb. Right. I like what they did. I think it's tremendous. I mean, the value is there.

One, the thing about Randall Cobb is versatility. He's been a good slot receiver. He can get outside. He can be an outside guy. It was in college, too. Right. And he's really good out of the back field. He gives you multiple positions that he can play.

I've seen him run the ball out of the back field. He could be a jet sweep guy. He gives you all kinds of versatility. It's a tremendous signing. I mean, to me, it really is a great sign. Like, Cole Beasley was a guy that, where are you going to put Cole? He's going to motion across. He's going to be a slot guy.

That's what he is. Cobb can go all over the place. For $5 million, I'm $100. with you. I think the first wave of free agency is ridiculous because you end up spending top dollar on guys that are free agents for a reason. Like you have, I always say that free agency is like drugstore, like buying your diamond engagement ring at the drugstore, right? It's going to have some flaws in it. You're not going to get the top quality diamond at the drugstore. So when you get to free agency, you're either really, you know, kind of a marginal player, or you have an attitude issue,

or you're older or you're injured, whatever the case may be. It's true for every. It's true for me. Hell, I felt three physicals in my first year is a free agent before, you know, I ended up getting signed by the Broncos. I failed a physical in Chicago. I filled a physical in Indianapolis. I filled a physical in Atlanta where the doctor sat down with me after he evaluated me,

said, you have the knees of an 80-year-old woman. And I do not, this is an identical quote of an 80-year-old woman. woman and I do not believe that you play in the NFL. And you said in your face, I'm going to go play with John Elway and collect hardware. Right, exactly. So I'm like, hey man, I just line up and play. That's all I know. Here's the way I'll get free agency.

If your belief system and free agency is just this, regardless of who we get, we want to get value. You'll never get value with Antonio Bryant. Now, you'll get talent, but there's no chance to ever get value with the first wave. The second wave, you may not get production, but you almost always get value. The other guy, Jared Cook, the Saints are going to pick up Jared Cook. I asked my staff a day ago, two days ago, I'm like, is Jared Cook not available? He's going to go to Drew Breeze. He's like getting Jimmy Graham four years ago.

I can't believe nobody picked up Jared Cook. And I can't believe nobody bid on Randall Cobb. The Cowboys and the Saints with those offenses are going to walk in and be productive players. Now, Cobb does get hurt occasionally. He's not going to be Dallas as one or their, two. I think they think gallops a two, and Amari's their one. I did a Raiders game last year, and I was on the field, you know, watching Friday practice. And the only guy, like, the only guy that could get open was Jared Cook.

Like, I looked at the rest of the receivers and go, I might could line up one-on-one and shut this guy down. Now, I mean, you looked at that they had a bunch of, you know, a bunch of number threes in Oakland playing wide. Oh, Cook was their target at the end of the year. He was, he was it. He was the only guy that was, who was the only guy, like, when you When you stepped off the bus to play the Oakland Raiders, you said yourself as a defensive coordinator, there's one dude we got to stop. And if we stop this one dude,

they're not moving the ball. They're not going to beat us. That was it. I mean, that was literally it. You know what's funny about this business, and I guess it happens all the time, is people fall for the same stuff over and over. If you go look at last year's big free agent signings,

Kirk Cousins. In fact, hold on, I want to look at this real quick. All right, I'm going to look at this. I wrote this down. You know what you need. You need efforting music. Something like I use it on my show all the time, the Geico Caveman music. Here are the big free agent signings last year.

Okay, go. Nate Solder. Mm-hmm. Trumane John. As you mentioned to me, Nate Solder, the fourth best left tackle in the NFC East. Tramane Johnson Jets, mess. Right. Malcolm Butler Titans, San Bradford, Arizona, and Kirk Cousins, Minnesota.

those were our versions of OBJ and AB last year. By the way, you want to know who was under the radar last year? Honey Badger to Houston, who had a great one-year deal, pouncing to the Chargers, and Eric Ebron to the Colts for the second wave, those guys had great years. Sure. All right, his name is Mark Schlerth. You know that. Nice job.

Jeff Schwartz, another offensive lineman next hour. Big Uglies, Dominating the show today. Dominating the show. By the way, Schlerth does Schlarith and Evans weekdays 8-11 Eastern. 104.3, the fan in Denver. I don't know why they put Eastern in there. It's the Hurd. One more Hurd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Hurd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

Ah, hour two in L.A. This is the herd. Wherever you may be, however you may be listening, live in Los Angeles, IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio. And FS1, F.S.1. great to have you in today. Joy Taylor is joining me hour two today. Jeff Schwartz, great offensive lineman, will be joining me. In about 15 minutes, Matt Barnes, Marcellus Wiley today. Joy, how are you? I'm doing great.

Very excited for this tournament. Very excited for the tournament. Starts later today. Well, there's already a couple of games going on. A lot of news today. You know in America right now you hear all the time, we're divided. We're divided. You've got Republicans over here, and you've got Democrats over there, and we're divided.

and I don't find that to be the only division in America. I think I notice this among men a lot, so I'll speak for men since I'm a guy. One of the big divisions in America, people willing to evolve and rigid, stubborn people. And as men primarily age, they can pick one of those two lanes. Coach K, I'm going to evolve. I don't like one in Duns, but I'm going to evolve.

Duke's favor to win the title. Bobby Knight at the end of his career, stubborn. I'm not changing. you've seen how it's gone. You can talk about Republicans and Democrats, but when I look around in the world in which I live, I got Republican friends and Democratic friends, and most of my friends almost lean moderate to independent.

But the big gap, are you willing to evolve? Or are you stubborn? And Lavian Bell came out, interview with Jenny Vrennis, Monday morning quarterback, and said, Ben wants to win, but Ben wants to win his way. And that's tough to play with. tries to control everything. Ben and Brett Farrv.

Small town guys, little rigid, my way or the highway, I'm not evolving. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Coach K have chosen the other lane. This is a real knock on Big Ben. Big Ben, I've been told by people around the Steelers organization that have been in and out of that organization, their audible system is antiquated and simplistic. Ben threatened to retire years ago if things didn't go his way. He was public about it. Who else threatened to retire several times if he had to change offenses?

Brett Farv. You can choose either exit on the interstate, evolve and grow or stubborn, rigid guy. And Farv, to me at the end, I'm not changing offenses or I'll retire. He threatened it publicly. Look it up. Google. That's what it's used for. Big Ben a couple years ago.

They were forcing changes with Todd Haley. I'm going to retire. You know, Warren Sharp is a football analytics guy. And a couple days ago, weeks ago, I had him on a podcast. And I said, what NFL team, and Ben has to take some of the hit on this? Because quarterbacks who aren't willing to evolve, especially when they're great, like Fav and Big Ben, teams aren't going to get rid of him. Not as long as Fav was still really, really good, and Ben's still really, really good. He's an A-to-A-minus quarterback.

And so Warren Sharp, I asked him, what's the team that underachieves, analytically? That has a very good quarterback, and that's the most important thing in the NFL. And they're always kind of consistently good, above-average team. But they always struggle with adjusting and adapting their game plan to beat certain opponents. And that's why, for example, they hardly ever have success against the New England Patriots, especially their defense always seems to struggle dealing with them. I know they won a game a while ago against them. But like on a consistent basis, this is a team that,

I feel like isn't squeezing the juice out of the orange to the extent that they need to. Their roster has been so much better than what they've actually delivered on the field. And I think football particularly is very cruel to rigid guys. I mean, football, I mean, Joy, we've watched the last two years. Rules change hourly in football. Football changes, a football game today doesn't look like a football game did 12 years ago on television. Football's the sport of change. Goodell will step in, rules committee.

Middle of a season. Super Bowl two years ago, they changed the captain. natural. Baseball, you can be rigid. Baseball's kinder to rigid guy, because baseball doesn't change much. Baseball, Little League Baseball figured out the review system before Major League Baseball. Until a year ago, Major League Baseball didn't use computers to schedule their games. They were on cards. I'm not joking. And finally, somebody said, you may want to computerize this thing. By the way, never have the Cubs Cardinals during the week. Never have the Giants, Dodgers, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Always have the Yankees, Red Sox on the weekend.

like the NFL's been doing forever. Scheduling matters. Baseball's fine for rigid guy because baseball is like glacial when it comes to change. Rigid football guy, I'm not going to change guy. It's a bad place for him. You got to adapt, baby. Belichick's 70 and still great because he adapts. Well, the world changes.

People's viewing habit changes. How people consume the game changes. Your audience gets younger. Of course. So change. Yes. So when you're an inevitable part of a lot of, life. And I've heard this for years on Big Ben. They use a simplistic audible system. It's my way or the

highway. He's not willing to evolve. It's got a far-like quality. And they're both first ballot Hall of Famers. I don't think they're bad guys. But I see the divide in America, not as Republican Democrat, and that's certainly a divide. I see it between willing to grow or sticking your heels in the dirt and never moving. Big Ben here takes some blame for this. Evolve Pittsburgh, analytically, change some stuff up both sides of the football. All right. Let me shift gears to this. Jeff Schwartz in 10 minutes. He's great. There was a story a couple of days ago.

I didn't really buy it. Not that I doubted the reporters, but I didn't think it would come to fruition. Doc Rivers, Clipper Coach, going to the Lakers. Now, I'm not saying the reporters like Peter Vessie aren't great and didn't have legitimate sources. But what I said at the time was, it kind of feels like Doc's trying to get a raise or something,

trying to get a contract extension. So I didn't buy the Doc Lakers story happening. I bought the story and the leak, but I didn't buy it. It was happening. The Clippers have a better owner. I think the Clippers have a better roster.

I think right now they've got a better culture. I think with Jerry West, they have a better front office. I think Jerry is better than Magic and player personnel. Just my opinion. I got 40 years of Jerry to prove it. So I would not make the move of I'm Doc Rivers. I think the Lakers have a bigger brand.

I don't think that's disputable. But the Giants have a bigger brand than the Jets, and for the next 10 years, because of Sam, Dan, Lavin, Bell, and the Jets, I think they're going to have more success than the New York Giants. But now, this I'll say about Doc Rivers. I like Doc. I see Doc about two, three times a year. I like Doc a lot.

Does Doc like money? Does Doc like leverage? Does Doc like power? Yeah, he does. When he came to the Clippers, he flushed some stuff out. Doc's got a strong worldview. And I like Doc a lot. But he likes his money.

He likes his power. He likes his control. and I'm okay with that. He's earned the right. And he's good. I'd argue the best year he's ever coached. The fact they're going to make the playoffs in the West when they traded Tobias Harris in the last three years,

Chris Ball, DeAndre Jordan, Blake Griffin, and they're going to make the playoffs. I felt my feeling on this, it was a little bit of a plant to get dock an extension, which he wanted now. And by the way, in the last 48 hours, looks like they're going to take that option out of the contract and give Doc an extension, which is sort of what we predicted would happen on the story.

I also don't think Doc and LeBron work, and I like both. But I like tuna fish and I like ice cream. I don't like them together. I like Doc, and I like LeBron. But these are two strong-headed, smart, my way or highway guys. Doc's going to run a franchise. the way he wants to run it. And he has a view of basketball, and he's going to, and he's got titles.

So he's earned that right. He's also a good player. And LeBron's earned the right to have a say in the room. Smart guy, a bunch of titles, iconic brand. Still great player, 28 and 8. But right now the Lakers have a lot of chefs in the kitchen. You got Kobe's got stuff he's doing, Polinka and Magic and Jeannie and LeBron. And I don't think you could handle another chef.

I don't think it would be a good fit for Doc. I think the Clippers is a perfect fit for Doc where you have a great owner, a veteran eyes in West, a really nice roster who needs a star. They need a star. They've got space for two, and I think they're going to land one star. I don't think they're going to get Durant and Kauai. I think they could get Kauai, or maybe a Jimmy Butler or somebody. But I never totally bought into this story. Former NFL offensive lineman Jeff Schwartz.

You know what? What's not wrong with having two? one day. I mean, they're not glamorous maybe. I like offensive linemen. Those are, those are beers and brots guys. Jeff Schwartz around the corner, smart dude. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode,

we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped. up in the chase, that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing, and we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different

intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about on healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness.

So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets. meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levin this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds,

just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On hurdle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WNBA standout, Kate Martin and rising hockey star Lela Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that.

Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't feel like. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs, Gabby Thomas, and Katie Ladeke. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me.

And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world, Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports.

Tonight, PBA's best compete for the coveted Earl Anthony Trophy at the World Series of Bowling's World Championship. Catch the finals live in prime time. Tonight at 8 p.m. Eastern only on a.m. FS1 and the Fox Sports app. I worked in a bowling alley for three years. Joy, how about you? I am a terrible bowler, but I like bowling. My bowling alley had a great restaurant and an asteroid machine. As a kid, I'd go there quarters and bowl, and I have four bowling trophies.

So you're a very good bowler? No. My town, there weren't many good bowlers, and I was just average. I averaged one-fifty-nine one year. Yeah, I've just completely given up on trying to do the proper form, and now I just roll it. One of my producers was impressed by that. The rest of you knuckleheads over there don't understand what a 159 is. That's good.

My ball could spin and oil and stuff. Yeah. All right. Getting ahead of myself. Hey, let's bring our second offensive lineman on. And this is an interesting guest today. Jeff Schwartz, his brother Mitchell Swartz, Pro Bowler, Kansas City Chiefs, via the Coward Global Satellite Network.

Eight NFL seasons, author of Eat My Schwartz with his brother Mitchell. Here's what's interesting. You live in a city with Cam Newton. Cam Newton's polarizing, but I will say this, you never hear teammates bag on him. You don't. Now, media guys like you and me can be tough on his inconsistency, but most of the noise out of that locker room, everybody's in. Greg Olson's in on him. We've had one guy that banged on him a little and left.

Big Ben, by the way, seen as a better quarterback, I've had coaches, passive aggressive shots, multiple players. So where, because you've been critical of Cam and Carolina and got pushback, where do you fall on Big Ben's support? Well, clearly Ben is not the leader. People expect him to be a quarterback. But remember, the first 10, 12 years of his career, he didn't have to be the leader, right? The leaders were guys on defense, Palo Malu, Ryan Clark, Harrison, Kiesel, even in offense, his big offense align, Heinz Ward.

Now he's evolved into a leadership role, and not all guys are great leaders. I know we think of quarterbacks as great leaders. And we talk about Cam. Cam is a fantastic leader. We might not like his inconsistencies as a pocket passer, but he's a fantastic. No doubt about it, he leads that team. And I think Big Ben is struggling a little bit to find that role as the number one leader now that those guys on defense aren't there. But I will say, I think Levyon Bell and Antonio Brown are going to be in the first surprise when they go to their new teams in the honeymoon period wears off.

And they realize that the Steelers are probably pretty much like every other organization. By the way, you played Panthers, Vikings, Chiefs, and Giants. and just tell me about the difference when you move in free agency. Was there an organization you were with that you honestly believed was just simply better run and easier to succeed? And was there one that was the opposite of that? Well, I love my time with the Chiefs. Andy Reid is a fabulous coach. He's a great team builder.

John Dorsey was there too in 2013. We built that team up from 2 and 14. We were 11 to 5 that year. And then you go to New York. and Tom Coughlin has the Super Bowls. He has the resume. Eli Manning was playing well there. We had a good team. And the level of expectation in New York is just different to win Super Bowl.

They expect to win Super Bowl. A lot of people talk about wanting to win Super Bowls. The Giants know how to win Super Bowl. So you felt when you got there, the expectations were just different than any other place I'd been. I loved it. I loved that idea of the fan base knowing that they expect to win a championship every year. By the way, free agency is funny. that there's the first couple of days of it,

and to me it's rodeo shopping. You may be getting a beautiful purse and great shoes, but there's no value. The second wave last year gave us, you know, the Eric Ebrons and the Mike Pounceys and a honey badger for a year in Houston. The first round gave us Kirk Cousins and Tremaine Johnson for the Jets.

I tend to think the Cowboys got Randall Cobb, the Saints got Jared Cook, tied end from the Raiders, and I'm like, I'm not sure there's a move I like more in free agency, except maybe Levian Bell to the Jets. Your thought on the Cowboys Randall Cobb, what jumps out to you? The reason why the second wave of guys typically pays off, and I'm not saying the first wave of guys are not motivated, but the second wave of guys typically are in one-year contracts. They've had either they've played on a poor team, they've been injured, and they're young still,

so they're out to prove they can still be that guy and get that big second contract. You're talking about Cobb, going to go in the Cowboys. is he's going there because of Dak Prescott and Mark Cooper, the offensive line they have, and he's going to try to prove to people I deserve to have another big contract. So I love the signing there. They can bring Eric Berry as well. If he's healthy, that's

another big signing for them. But you're right. Typically the teams that sit out that early part of Fraudency are the ones that win when they go sign these one-year deals for guys. I mean, Eric Weddell's a guy. I think that the Rams signed early in Fraudency that is kind of the same sort of value of one year, about $6.25

million contract. I think the bills, by the way, and I bashed Josh Allen often, but they did a great job. Most of the guys they signed, at least Brown and Beasley, are really one-year contracts. They signed a great, great versus offensive alignment and a new center. I think they did a great job, too. Yeah, I thought Green Bay went and got mid-level guys, too, on the defensive side. And between the draft last year and their free agents, their defense will be better. All right, so one of the things I think we do and we make a mistake in the media is we pick apart kids.

We did it last year. Two years ago with Ben Simmons. he was a 6-10 guard who defends and passes, and everybody talked about his shooting. Zion Williamson now. He doesn't play a position. He's not a great shooter. And I'm like, okay, the kid's going to average 20 plus in the NBA soon. So I look at Dwayne Haskins of Ohio State.

And New York Giants need a quarterback eventually. And Dwayne Haskins is 6.3.5, 220. He's not the world's greatest athlete. He doesn't have the world's best feat. I think he's a B prospect. But I think we try to find the perfect prospect. and Eli Manning was not a perfect prospect. You watched a lot of college football.

I think you have to take Haskins if you're the Giants at 6. Do you? 100% agree. I've said all along. I think Haskins is their target unless they trade for Josh Rosen, which I don't know if he's going to be on the market or not. I think Murray goes one. But Josh Rosen would feel that need.

Haskins fits every checklist the Giants have ever had for quarterback, right? a pocket guy, big, kind of, you know, not very mobile, but has a huge arm, accurate, all those things. I think he beat fantastic at six, but I don't know if they're going to draft him at six. They might stick to their board and say, look, he is not our sixth rated player. We're going to go get a defensive tackle, defensive end, and stick with Eli Manning one more year. I don't think they're sold on drafting a guy if Haskins is not graded in that slot. I really don't see that happen. I could see 17, maybe drafting a quarterback there.

But I think Haskins is a perfect fit for the offense, that West Coast offense, they want to run, what quarterback they've always had in New York. And they need to move on from Eli at some point. And this would be the starting process of that. Yeah, I talked to a general manager a couple nights ago, and he said, listen, all the quarterbacks this year have something you're going to have to live with. Kyler Murray is small. You're going to have to live with that. Dwayne Haskins isn't a great athlete who can set and reset in the pocket like a breeze. and the other kid from Missouri is just inaccurate.

Drew Lock is just too often he's a little reckless and inaccurate. And so the GM said they're all good prospects. None are probably great prospects, but you've got to live with their imperfections. Finally, Jeff, if Kansas City, Pittsburgh's lost Antonio Brown, and everybody thinks it's man overboard. Kansas City has lost two rush ends, Justin Houston D. Ford. Kareem Hunt last year, terrific back. Eric Berry, not a great player, but a great presence on a team. And now Tyreek Hill will probably not be a chief.

And I don't think you can duplicate him in the league. Your brother plays for the Chiefs. They have lost a lot of production. Jeff, have they not? Well, this is why NFL windows are so short. The Patriots are the terrible example to use because they're the only ones who have this window open for 16 years. But this is why the chiefs you have to win when you get in these situations. And beyond the production of Houston and Eric Berry, who's been hurt, obviously, for the last couple of years, those are their two leaders on defense.

They don't have a leader on defense now. I mean, D. Ford, I guess, would have been the next guy, but he's out. So is it Chris Jones now? Who is your leader on defense? And you mentioned Tyree Kill, there is no replacing that guy. And if he is out, which, you know, if the reports are true, he will probably be out of Kansas City, then you lose, you know, another weapon. It's a bad off season for them. I like the signing of Honey Badger.

I guess you would become the new leader on the defense. You mentioned the Steelers, by the way. The Steelers, you've got to bet them to win the AFC North. I cannot believe the overreaction to the Browns and their signings. The Steelers are still the Steelers. They still have a ton of talent in the North. I've been shocked to see the overreaction. I'm not shocked, but the overreaction to the Browns is wild.

Take the Steelers to win the North still. They have the best offensive line in the division, the best owner, the best GM, the best quarterback. And oh, by the way, they still have a number one wide receiver in Juju Smith-Schuster. I'm with you on this. It's like Pittsburgh's Pittsburgh.

They may underachieve. They still, at the top of that organization, they are A's and rock solid all the way. Jeff Schwartz, his book is Eat My Schwartz with his brother of the Pro Bowl lineman, Mitch Schwartz. Good talking to you, bud. Same here.

See the offensive line guys. I relate to those guys. Not flashy, beer and brought guys. I have a feeling that most offensive linemen could put down a few more beers than you. You claim to be able to drink one beer, which is the amount of beers that I can drink. One? Yeah. Maybe, maybe two.

Can I say one more time? I watched a movie last night called The Wife, Glenn Close, best actor slash actress on the planet. You can just say actor. That's what I think. Actor. What's PC today? Just say actor? I mean, no one's going to be offensive.

if you say actress. Okay. She's the best in the world. She's great. A lot of people wanted her to win the Oscar this year. I watched the favorite, which had, her name is slipping my mind right now, but she won the Oscar.

Olivia Coleman? Yeah, Olivia Coleman. Yes, and she was great in it. And she had the best speech. Wife is two hours long, perfect. You're flying to Seattle. I'll check it out. I tried that bodyguard show you recommended.

You don't like it? It was okay. I got through a couple episodes. It started stronger, and then it kind of, It changed on me. Joy with the news. No, no, no, no, no.

Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. So the Sixers have gone all out upgrading their roster this season. They added some new players, including Jimmy Butler, who had the game winner last night, and they've paid dividends for Philly. And Butler has high expectations for this team going into the postseason. True talent in the star lineup.

I think when you look down the line, we have a group of guys that can do something, special if we're out there all on the same page. We're all playing hard and we're all competing. They're the three seed right now and they have one, six in a row. They're known. This is a real. We both like them.

I mean, listen, athletically, Embed Simmons, Butler, Tobias Harris. And by the way, veteran JJ Redick, the hit shots, it's a really good roster.

I think that this is a Philly roster you can get behind. The only thing that makes, gives me pause is what Jimmy Butler just said is when we're all on the same page. when you get deep into the playoffs and things start to get a little hairy, can you stay together as a team? Well, maturity has been the big issue. Right.

And so, I mean, the talent is there. There's no question that the talent is there. And by the way, it's a fun team to watch. Yes. I mean, because there's just, M.B. can be dominating. Simmons, the closer at the rim. Butler's a great athlete. It's full of stars.

And they're exciting. And like you said, they're fun to watch. But that's my only concern going down the stretch. What will happen with that? Let's not overreact to one home. win against Boston. Like you're supposed to win in a big rivalry. You've got to win the home games. They did. Right. And I don't think at this point anyone should be overreacting to anything it's happening in the season. Like with there's, there's a few games here and there that are

going to change down the stretch and that will determine what seed is where. But if you're, if you're the Sixers, it's not like you're like aiming to be in a particular place. So sticking with last night's game during shoot around, Kyrie Irving said he would definitely take games off before the postseason. His reasoning was, I don't think our focus isn't seeding. That's pretty clear. As long as we get there, I'm happy. It just makes no sense to put emphasis on these regular season games when you know you're gearing up for some battles coming in the playoffs. So he's taking the LeBron model. Yeah, I don't mind that at all. Listen, I am for playing during the regular season,

but you get eight games to go, seven games to go, and I can give Kyrie's knees. He's had some injuries. I can give Kyrie two weeks off. I'm absolutely doing it. Yeah, and you're not trying to make the playoffs. So give him some rest. You're already in. Right. And Kyrie knows how long these playoff runs can go and how rigorous they are and how important it is to be healthy. But here's the key, but I would worry about Boston. They're not playing great right now. Like Philadelphia, like let's say James Hardin said I'm taking days off. Houston's won 12 or 14.

San Antonio's hotclippers. I'd like Boston to be playing great basketball, then take seven games off. I don't like him. Well, I don't know that he's going to take that many games off, but he should take a few here and there. I mean, they're the fifth seed, and they probably want to stay in Milwaukee. side of the of the of the playoffs at this point because Toronto is a very tough matchup for them but again they're like he said they're not worried about the seating they're just trying to get into the playoffs playing well and being healthy most of all and kairi of all people on that roster understands

the the need for that and finally the tampa bay buccaneers made NFL history yesterday they added two female assistant coaches to their staff they announced that maral jadipar will serve as the team's assistant strength and conditioning coach and Lori Locust will be an assistant defensive line coach. Now Bruce Ariens said that this was something that was very important to him and he's been at the forefront of this from the beginning with Jen Welter a few years ago

and that this was something that he really wanted to implement that he had some support from the front office with this as well. Obviously this is a big move and he should be congratulated for taking this step. I also think that this is a big reason why I think that he was hired there because you do have James Winston, and it's very crucial time for him in his career,

and Bruce Ariens is a very balanced and no-nonsense guy. If anyone can get James on the straight and narrow, I think it's Bruce Ariens. So congratulations to that. Good stuff. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lie News. By the way, I'll go back to that New York Giants with the news. Wayne Haskins is everybody know that last year was a great quarterback class. Baker, Darnold, Rosen, Josh, Lamar. Everybody knew it was a really good class.

Five guys. Everybody knows that next year is a really good class. This year was never considered a great quarterback class. That's why when the Giants passed on Sam Darnold, you were really passing for two years. Because last year, there were five quarterbacks,

and three were considered like A prospects, two were B to B plus prospects. and next year you got Tua from Alabama, Justin Herbert, Oregon, and you got the kid in Georgia from. So next year you got some real A guys. And then the year after that, you have the Clemson quarterback. So everybody knew that knows what they're doing in the NFL. This was not the great year for quarterbacks,

which is why the giant should have taken Sam Darnold. Put him behind Eli. That tells me they don't have a plan. Dwayne Haskins is a B prospect, but he's big, strong. Now, he runs a lot of those drag routes at Ohio State. state underneath routes, which are easy completions. Ohio state's got great athletes, and the eight-yard pass becomes a 22-yard gain, and that manipulates the stats.

But a GM in the NFL told me recently, he makes enough big-time throws. He doesn't make 20 a game. He doesn't make 10 a game, but he makes four or five big-time throws in that offense. He's a B prospect. But you know what? So was Eli Manning. Eli Manning was the third most talented Manning quarterback. He wasn't as talented as Peyton and he wasn't Archie.

and Eli won two Super Bowls. There are very few A prospects at quarterback. About one a year. Giants had the chance to get a couple last year whiffed. Next year, they're probably not going to have a chance to get one of the top two guys because Miami is actively tanking. I don't know if you're watching what they're doing in Miami, but Miami appears to have a plan.

Miami's like, we're going to tank. We're going to get Tua or Justin Herbert from Oregon. Those guys are better prospects that Gnoyne Haskins. But I think Duane's too good not the draft. He's just too good. He's a big kid. He's a strong kid. He has a good enough arm.

Not a great athlete. Not great feat. But in his accuracy, he dips when he moves. But there's no way, if I'm the New York Giants at 6, I pass on him. There's no way I'm passing on him. I'm getting him in the building. Heck, we've seen NFL teams that draft two quarterbacks. Washington drafted RG3 and Kirk Cousins.

You can draft two. But you've got to draft one if you've got an old guy that has become incredibly average. That's Eli Manning. Got to do that. So it's good to be back. It's not waste any time. I am your stockbroker. Buy, sell or hold.

Time to buy. Colin will decide if he'll buy it. Sell. Roger to tell. Or hold. Here we go. All right, Colin. Will Kyler Murray,

Kyler Murray will not be drafted, number one. Buy, sell, or hold. Kyler met with the Arizona Cardinals on Tuesday. I know, the Arizona Cardinals have taken calls from three NFL teams I've been told that have offered a second round pick. Arizona has said haven't made up our mind yet. My belief, though, if you look at who's running the show in Arizona, Cliff Kingsbury, if you're asking him and he gets a say, sell, sell, sell, sell. Kyler Murray will be drafted, number one.

All right, buy seller hold. Rob Gronkowski will return next season. Here's what's interesting about Gronk. If I said, guess how old he is? You know, you think like 32, 33. Gronk's only 29. And Gronk is one of the best blocking tight ends in the NFL. Belichick values that a ton.

He also had 12 catches for 170 yards in the final two games. Rams Chiefs. I think this was a very easy one. Buy, bye, bye! I think Gronk's going to come back. He is as good a blocking tight end and red zone threat as you're going to find he's only 29 years old.

Yeah, plus I feel like we'd have heard something by now. Right. All right, buy seller hole. Ben Rothesberger will never win another Super Bowl. Well, he's missed the playoffs in three of his last seven seasons. And the Steelers have only won three playoff games since 2010. I don't think it's an Antonio Brown thing.

I think it is a Steelers aren't great with analytics, a Patrick Mahomes thing, a Brady thing, an Andrew Luck thing, a Derek Carr thing. So in the end, buy, bye, bye, bye. I don't think it'll win another Super Bowl. I think there are too many elite coaches, good quarterbacks and good GMs in the NFL above Pittsburgh. I think they'll be good. Super Bowl is a whole different ballgame. All right, buy seller hold. Nick Foles will win more games than Carson Wentz next season.

Philadelphia, I predict Wentz and Phil. really win 12 next year. I predict the Jaguars win six. Nick Foles, nobody would argue, is not an elite arm or an elite athlete or elite size. He was elevated by a great O line, a great coaching staff, one of the best GMs in football. Folks, there's a time to buy and sell stocks. Nick Fells. Yeah, he's not going to Jacksonville and lighting up the world. He's not going to have nearly the offensive line, nearly the receiving core.

And I just think the wattage upstairs is really, really good in Philadelphia and not as good upstairs in Jacksonville. Well, I hope for Carson Wins's sake, you're right. Bye, seller hold. Mike Trout and Bryce Harper will not win a World Series in the next decade. Trout's never won a playoff game. Angels have one world series in franchise history. Phillies have two. These 13-year contracts are stupid.

I'll make a prediction. Bryce Harper will not be in Philadelphia in seven years. He will not finish the contract. Now, Trout and his personality probably stays in Anaheim, but they need a new stadium. They're playing in a, you know, it's not terrible. I've gone to a dozen times, but it's kind of an antiquated stadium for revenue purposes. And I think it's very safe. I don't think Mike Trout and Bryce Harper, if you look at the history of 10, 11, 12, 13-year contracts,

they go to teams sometimes that overreach, Mariners Robinson Canoe, Joe Mauer twins. They're not made for the right reasons they're made because they're popular. And you can't let Joe Mauer go and you can't let Mike Trout go. 13-year contracts are bad news in any business. Coming up next, Matt Barnes thinks the new Laker coach, and there's going to be a new one, needs one thing to remain the coach for more than an hour. Oh, that's going up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific.

Cold and flu season. Try Vic Sinai's nasal spray. A couple of scourts up there. 12 hours when congestion strikes. Vicks sinex nasal spray. Played for a decade and a half in the NBA. I won a title with the Warriors a couple years back. Also, hell of a football player high school. Matt Barnes, NBA champ, good seeing you. So you played two years with Doc Rivers. And, you know, Docs, and I say this as almost with affection. He's got an ego. He likes his money, likes his power. He's earned it. He's got a point of view. I've never thought he and LeBron's camp are a perfect fit. I think they have a strong worldview. I didn't really buy Doc to the Lakers, did you? I actually did from the standpoint of, I know that it's been mentioned that that was his goal before he retired, either the Lakers or the Knicks. And once you come to L.A. and get this L.A. lifestyle, it would be hard to go back to that cold.

But from the outside looking in, me, I would think that the clippers are heading in such an amazing direction. I wouldn't see why he would want to jump. Great owner, nice roster. Right. You know what I mean? And, you know, opportunity to get two max players. There's a lot of dysfunction on the other side right now. But like I said, you know, Doc is a strong mind, strong-willed coach who speaks his mind.

And in order for that to work, you would have to get LeBron's blessing, I feel. Yeah, you would have to. Whoever they get, what is the key in coaching LeBron, in your opinion? I think it has to be something I had similar when I played with the Lakers with Phil Jackson and Kobe. Phil would talk to Kobe like he was the 12th or 13th fan. You know, at the same time, they had the mutual respect, but he would never, Kobe was never bigger than the team in Phil's eyes. You know, he always held him accountable and everything.

And that would have to be the same situation with the coach with LeBron. Like they can't allow him. Not that he tries too often, but there are certain situations where he probably needs to be called on. and they need a coach that can call him out on that. Well, Doc can do that. Now, Doc can bark. Yeah. Doc and I got a barking match,

and that's why I got traded. So I know Doc can bark well. No, no. And I like Doc, but he sees the world a certain way. And if you don't fit into it, you're out of there. Yeah, and I love what he's doing, considering everything that's going on with the team and the trades they've made and guys coming and going the way he has these guys

playing and believing in one another and believing in the system. and really putting a great product out there, despite not having a true, quote-unquote, superstar. Yeah, play their butts off, good bench. Lakers gave him Zubotch, which I didn't get. Who got that move? Like, he's a nice, big, you know, solid-skilled, big young kid.

Yeah, good for them. So Joy and I were just talking about two things in the NBA. So Kyrie said, I'm going to rest for a couple days before the playoffs. I've never had a problem with it. If you're a veteran team, Al Horford, Kyrie Irving, and home court isn't a maker break. I mean, they can go and win in Philly. They can go in Toronto.

I'm okay with it. But how many games off late is too much? Yeah. I mean, like Boston's not playing great today either, Matt. You made a great point that you normally want to be on a good, you know, span while if you decide to take a seat. And my only thing is if he takes consecutive games off two, three, maybe four in a row, and they go four and O. You know, that's already been a dysfunctional locker room and they're already kind of like, we've done this without you, Kyrie. you know, we just showed again.

We weren't playing very well before you sat and then you sat and we start playing well. So I just think they have to be very careful with everything that's going on, take all that consideration. And if he does sit, it should probably be a game or two here or a game or two. I wouldn't do like an extended span because if they happen to go 4 and 0,

that's going to bring more trouble to the locker room. No, that becomes a story. That becomes a narrative. No question. It's not just that we make stuff up. You go 5 and 0 if Kyrie sits. Guys in the locker room. Because like they did it last year.

Right. You know what I mean? And there's been a lot of, if the LeBron Laker didn't dominate this year's basketball headlines, that Boston locker room would have been scrutinized a little bit more because there was a lot of dysfunction over there. From a former player, I don't have to be in there. I can tell with the body language and the way people cheer on the bench and the way they look at each other and missed high fives. Like, you see all that stuff. You know, but I think the fact that the Lakers overshadowed the NBA this year, we didn't really look too deeply into that Celtic locker room. That's a really good point. Matt Barnes, 14 NBA seasons, won a title with the Warriors. the way played in the NC tournament four years three or four years but you went sweet 16 like three times yeah yeah fun little run we had a great you know college was outside of having children the

NBA was a blessing college was the best time of my life so I enjoy it was absolutely you love college oh UCLA was a blast I wish I told my twins there they're talking about going to UCLA I told them be like Van Wilder and getting an apartment on campus when they go to UCLA socket that's funny no UCLA was a blast oh good for you I love to hear that um so listen I am now everybody in the world thinks I hate Westbrock. I always say don't hate the player. There are times I hate his game. So Oklahoma City started the year and they were really good and they were kind of running stuff through Paul George. Now Russell's taking more shots and I've always had this kind of belief, Matt, that you can fake it for a while,

but you can only suppress who you truly are for so long. It doesn't matter for your girlfriend. It doesn't matter. So date a while before you get married. Because people can fool you for a long time. Westbrook is incredibly intense, sometimes to the point of being rigid. And here we go again at the end of another season. He is unraveling a little bit. Even if you love him, can we acknowledge they're the only team out West that's now struggling, like, badly? And the offense looks a little more Westbrook-centric.

I'm someone that loves Wes, and I just think sometimes with him less is more. And I, you know, I've commended him early in the season to finally kind of taking a backseat and being okay with being Robin, even though he has Batman talent to be able to be Robin because he can do so many things and affect the game on both ends so well. And Paul George is just a special player. So we saw how, you know, scary that team was at stretches during the season when the offense ran through Paul. You know, whether it's rush shooting more, their lack of depth or their ability to actually shoot the ball from the three-point line. And they don't really have very good three-point shooter. So that can all play into what's going on here. But to be honest with you, I mean, they're in a spot, but they're tied for sixth, aren't they?

No, they're eighth now. That's what I said, eighth, but aren't they all seven games back? If I'm not mistaken, they're just tie-breaker stuff. Yeah, they have 10 left. They've got four toughies like Houston, Milwaukee, at Toronto. Then they have a sneaky fifth tough one. They have to go to Memphis. Memphis is sneaky good at home.

But they prove they could beat all those teams. You know what I mean? I think with, you know, Wes and Paul, as they're, leaders. Hopefully they can figure it out. But like I said, even though they're in the A spot currently, they're seven back. They're capable of beating absolutely anybody in the NBA. So, you know, I looked, I looked to them to still be regardless eight six, uh, eight seven six, a scary out in the playoffs. How would you have that conversation with a star player? I want you to be Robin. How would you, how would you, how would you? You would hope that he would see it. You would

hope that he wouldn't need to, to have that conversation. Like I said, because he, he has Batman talent. No, no question. You know what I mean? So you would think the older he gets and he continues to just understand the game and expand his mind as a player. You would see like, hey, you know, we had a heck of a streak when I was, Paul was scored 30, 35 a game.

You know what I mean? And now my shots are up, seven or eight shots a game from what they were at All-Star Break and were struggling a little bit. So you would hope he would see that a little bit. And just overall, he's had a rough shooting year, period. Yes, even free throws. And you think as a score, I'm sure I've never been on his level at all, but you think, you know, you continue to shoot.

You're going to get out of it. And this just has to happen this season for him. So, you know, I hope they can figure it out. Yeah, good seeing you. By the way, college basketball, Zion Williamson, 30 seconds. If you were a GM in the league, what do you see as a pro from Duke Zion Williamson? I'm taking him. I'm taking him number one.

And what I like about him is he's a very strong player, but you can tell even in college, his game isn't based off strength. It's skill. He's got a beautiful touch. He can bully people if he has to and he's going to learn. how to do that at the next level, and I can't wait to see that day. But his game isn't dependent on that. So I love him. I think he has a really soft touch.

I mean, around the basket. A nice, in a nice quick handle around the basket. Like, that's tricky considering how big he is and to be able to go behind the back between the legs real quick in a tight space, considering he's big as a Buick. You know, I love what he can do. You know, you've got to think, too, and his job for the rest of his crew will be just to learn how to shoot. Yeah.

It's your only job. Learn how to shoot. Great seeing you, bud. Good to be seeing. Car shopping, confusing dealer price, list price, invoice. Here's what's not. Truecar.com can save you three grand off MSRP. New or used, by the way.

Truecar.com. Check out their true price. Want more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHard Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Ah, hour three. Here we go.

Busy, busy day. In LA, this is The Hurt. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, Joy Taylor is joining me on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio. FS1 flew to Seattle yesterday on the way home watched the movie The Wife. Strongly recommend. Glenn Close, world's best actress. Incredible movie. You watched Favorite.

The favorite, yes. You weren't really into it. That was good. Good. I expected it to be a bit more dramatic. Yeah. But it was a good watch. Mine was dramatic.

Whoa. Yeah, I have to check it out. It's got a great twist. It's a fascinating story. Almost felt true. It's so weird. Welcome back. Sirius XM Channel 83.

We are always on. Marcellus Wiley in 15 minutes. I love having him on. I always got interesting things to say. Plus, I'm going to do something that I don't do often, more often than people think. But I'm going to defend Aaron Rogers today in best for life. defend him. My staff is making an allegation, a claim, and I'm going to defend Aaron Rogers. Well, Levy and Bell finally spoke, fascinating interview with Monday morning quarterback.

I heard a lot of noise from the Steelers, and everybody's taken aside. But this is proving my point. I don't want people taking sides in a locker room. This is on Ben. for all of you who are defending Ben Rathesberger. What the Steelers are, one word this morning, polarizing. Seattle won a Super Bowl. Then their locker room got divided.

Then the GM and the coach said, let's get the people that aren't on board with Russell Wilson out. They did. They rebooted Seattle back to the playoffs. The opposite of leadership is divisive. Polarization is great for talk show hosts. It can be good for some politicians. You galvanize your base and you pick on the other side.

Social media, Kardashians. Polarization is great in many businesses. Not in locker rooms. And Ben divides a locker room. He won't reach down to the young guys in comment. He doesn't get along with all his stars. He's sort of a rigid personality, doesn't want to evolve, wants to do it his way.

But more than anything, it's simply dividing the locker room. Levian Bell used to be a stealer, not a stealer. Said Ben wants to win, but Ben wants to win his way. It's tough to play that way. Ben won a Super Bowl, but that's when he was younger. Now he's at the stage where he tries to control everything and the team let him get there. Yes, that's a problem.

I never hear that about Drew Brees. I never hear that about Tom Brady. By the way, there's three quarterbacks in this league who are unbelievably talented, but I would call them polarizing. Ben, Aaron Rogers, and recently, Carson Wentz. Carson Wentz, you've got to do better, bro. You can't be polarizing. I don't care how talented you are and you're talented. Aaron Rogers, well documented.

But Big Ben's the leader in the clubhouse. Whether you're for or against Big Ben, you can't have teammates four. Brady against everybody's all in on Drew Breeze. The coaches love him, the owner loves him, the GM loves him, the rookies love him, the veterans love him. Guys retire, they're crying about him. That's because Drew Breeze goes out

of his way to get off the stage, get out of his mansion, and reach down and do a selfie and a high five with the kids. Learn their music, learn their lingo, learn their likes. You can't be polarizing. Carson Wentz, Aaron Rogers and Ben, and Ben, more than all of

them, everybody's taken sides. And it doesn't matter if you're taking Ben's side. I think he's great. But this is not what quarterbacks do. Leadership matters. I don't care if my running backs a goofball. I don't care if my wide receivers, a diva. I really care if my quarterback is. That's why I care

about all those combine stories that come out about quarterbacks. I did worry about hearing about Big Ben early in his career with women. I did worry early in Cam Newton's career when I heard about the goofy stuff he did in college. I did worry about Baker and Johnny Mansell and James Winston.

Because in the end, most of that stuff is a habit, and it's a DNA, and it's a personality, and it's who you are, and it reemerges. But everybody here is siding with somebody, which is proving my point. Picking sides equals divided. I want you to pick sides on me. Love him, hate him. I don't want you to be indifferent. Kardashians feel the same. Trump made two. There are industries where division is a rallying point.

It galvanizes your fans against your haters, but it's not a quarterback. That's not what it is. It's, by the way, we have Lavian Bell talking here about Ben as a teammate, and it's just, I just, this sounds like polarization to me. It's like Ben and then like gym. You know what I'm saying? It's like, he's like, it's like they all like, it's like they're all on the same level than everybody else is like lower. Okay, so it's Ben, the GM, and then all the rest of the players. In a sense.

Well. That's the vibe I got. I just feel like if we're teammates, we're teammates. We're all the same thing. We're all the same thing. And you felt like you weren't even with Ben. Ben is, you know, Ben is Ben is. At the time, I'm thinking that's how it's supposed to be.

He's supposed to be like that. Like, we're on quarterbacks are leaders. And yeah, everybody goes to the quarterback. It is what it is. But it's like, it's still, you're still a teammate. At the end of day, you're not, you know what I'm saying? You're not Kevin Colbert. Right.

You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I understand. We're still teammates. Was that a factor why you didn't want to stay in Pittsburgh? That was part of it. Your relationship with him. Yeah, it was a factor. And you wanted it to be different in a way.

Like we're friends. Like we teammates. And you did not feel that way. Yeah, very good interview, by the way, by Jenny Vrentis at Sports Illustrate. She did a really good job with this interview. And Lavian's right. Like leadership's hard. Like when you manage a company, manage a law firm, manage a hospital, manage a landscaping company.

New employee, wears you out, you know, crazy kids. But leadership is coming off the stage and relating to people. And it doesn't matter how much money you have and how many rings you have. Drew Brees and Brady, you just don't hear this. Ben, come off the stage. Evolve a little. Like, you're a teammate. You're not a general manager.

This is on Ben. It is. And I love him, but it's on Ben. I don't hear this with Breeze, and I don't hear this with Brady. And I don't hear this with Philip Rivers. You are still a player wearing a helmet. GMs don't wear helmets. Quarterbacks, even rich ones with rings, do.

Let me shift to this. Eventually, I was sitting with a therapist one time. And he said, change is hard. He goes, Colin, you want to change. And most of your habits, the real you comes out. You can modify them, temper them. But people are what they are. You know, a kid that grows up talkative is going to be talkative.

If you've had to temper your entire life, hard to shut it off at 42. So two weeks ago, Oklahoma City was in the third spot catbird seat in the West. Paul George was an MVP candidate. I said my MVP. And Westbrook was being an excellent teammate. He was passing and shooting less. Today they've lost four straight. Now they're an eighth seed.

Paul George is no longer an MVP candidate. And Westbrook shooting a lot. Oklahoma City was about ready to play a seven seed, a six seed home court advantage. As of this morning, they will open with the Golden State Warriors and get swept. It should be noted in the West. Houston is on fire. They've won 12 of 14. Denver's won four straight.

Clippers of won 8 of 9. San Antonio 9 of 10 in Utah's finally got their act together. It is a bad time to get cold. By the way, five of the next 10 games for Oklahoma City are tough. At Toronto, Denver, Houston at home at Milwaukee. And Memphis is sneaky good lately at home. They could lose all five of those games. And here we go again.

Westbrook, end of the year, is unraveling. Because he always unravels. Because you can only suppress what you are for so long. Has an off-season, chills out in, you know, Los Angeles, takes a deep breath in a good mood. But the season and an injury and a losing streak, Westbrook, my friends, is a sprinter, and the NBA season is a merit.

marathon. And over time, he wears out teammates. He wears out his coach. He wears out the staff. He wears out the media. He wears out himself. At some point, all you Westbrook fans, you'll have to acknowledge, you know, facts and stuff. It's happening like it has the last two years. He's unraveling at the end of the season. For the record, I totally supported him in Utah. That fan was a jerk. Got thrown out. Should have. Then a couple of days later, he's doing a near headbutt with Clay Thompson, gets him suspended for a game, a game at home against a bad team Miami. They lost and dropped to eight.

For their next 10, they'll be underdogs, and the Memphis game on the road, Memphis is sneaky good lately at home. Sorry, but you can only suppress what you are for so long. OKC and Westbrook unraveling again as the playoffs are right around the corner. In best for last today, I'm going to defend Aaron Rogers. My staff is not. My staff thinks he's sending a subtle message shot to Green Bay. So this is what Aaron posted on his Instagram page after Randall Cobb, former teammate, signed with the Dallas Cowboys.

He says, I have to remind myself, some birds aren't meant to be caged. When they fly away, the part of you that knows it was a sin to lock them up does rejoice. Joyce. Still, the place you live in is that much more drab and empty that they are gone. I guess I just missed my friend. So go to At the Hurt. You weigh in on the poll. My staff thinks he's comparing Green Bay to a prison.

I think he's honoring a friend. It's one of my favorite quotes in the history of movies. Aaron's got good taste. You don't quite have the Morgan Freeman flair when you read it. No, I don't. But it was still very well done. So you go there and vote right now. I do about three of these polls a year.

They're all stupid. But we do them because from time to time, I just like to see the reaction. And then best for last, we'll give it to you. There's a quote there. And Mike, the staff this morning brought it up. And I'm like, no, I think he loves Randall Cobb. And I think he's, and they're all like the, why was it Shawshank Redemption? It's all about perspective, you know.

All right. I think that's a good test of that, how people see things. All right. That's good, good calling that. When I used to work in Vegas, you'd have three judges for a fight on all three sides of the ring, and it was remarkable how often you saw a different fight. Right. You'd be like, well, you just set 10 feet from the other guy, but you see a different fight.

So what do you see there? You tell us. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and no. Nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answers. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsLice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife-Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

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because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keer Gaines,

as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness.

So when a swaggering our meeting, businessman, catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world. He doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levin this plant to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive?

The largest tax investigation in America. in history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WNBA standout, Kate Martin, and rising hockey star, Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl

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Good to have you. Some of these baseball contracts, 12, 13 years. Unbelievable. Gosh, they're terrible. By the way, I tend to support athletes. Like, I can be critical of athletes. But, you know, billionaires move teams all the time. So my feeling is always like, well, billionaires move.

Kevin Durant came into the NBA. thought he was going to be a Seattle Sonic. They moved to Oklahoma City, so why can't he move to Golden State, San Francisco? But, you know, there are athletes, I think, can be needy and a little, you know, a much. But, again, they're 23, 24-year-old kids. So, you know, that's my daughter's 18. So when I see a 24-year-old pro athlete, I think of a kid. I think of a kid that just got out of college.

But Lavian Bell said something yesterday in his interview with Jenny Vrentas, which, you know, come on. At some point, you're an employee, you're making $14 million a year. This just didn't sit great with me. Like, they don't treat like you're human. What I mean by that is like, yeah, I'm an NFL athlete, but it's still I'm a human being. You know what I'm saying? So like, I still play video games.

I'll still make music. It's like they don't want to like allow you to be yourself for real. It's like they want you to be if you're a stealer. Like you're literally supposed to be playing football 24-7. You're not supposed to be. playing video games and making music, playing basketball. You're not supposed to be doing that. You're supposed to be working out.

By the way, Michael Jordan was not allowed to ski. There are some regulations for all employees. They've never once told him he can't do music at home or video games. Listen, football, you practice hard twice a week. Wednesday, Thursday. Monday, Tuesday, you don't practice. Fridays, no pads. Saturdays, a walk-through and a home.

hotel, Sunday you play. He's a great player, but he also took last year off. Let's slow down. Most teams don't make the second round of the playoff, so a majority of the NFL players, 90% are off by early January. Then they practice for three days in May, unless they're a star like Levian, and they don't always have to, and then they get another couple months off before the next OTA, slow down a little. The Steelers are very pro-player. By the way, you know, Bill Belichick doesn't want Gronk going up in front of a microphone and taunting opponents. But Gronk has a life, and Welker did, and Brady does, and Lavian does, and let's slow down. I defend players all the time. But if you make $14 million with an employer, my company doesn't care what I do off

work. But boy, when I'm at work, I got to be committed. I got to be prepared. I got to work hard, harder than other people at other networks that do the same thing. All right. I'm okay with that. I actually think the Steelers would much prefer that players spend their free time playing video games and making music than getting in trouble. Not getting, I mean, not doing something physical. Right. So I don't, or yes, or like the playing basketball thing, I sort of understand because I just think that that's a very easy way to get injured. Yeah, like NBA teams have like, by the way, Tony Romo, I think the Cowboys at the end, you know, were uncomfortable with him being in nine rec leagues. Rec leagues in Dallas.

I mean, it's good cross-training, I guess, but I don't prefer. So I would understand why a team wouldn't want their star player doing that. But the video games and the music thing doesn't seem like a bad way to spend your recreational time. If I was a general manager. I would want to know who actually said to him, we don't want you doing that. Like if that was just a feeling that he had of this approval or if it was an actual conversation. Listen, if you told me as a general manager of a football team, I could build my star players, music studios. They were home every night. I would do it. Like, I'd want my guys to be home.

What I worry about was star players is they're bored. They're 23. They got money. Right. Are you going out every night? You're single. Who do you have around you? That would be something that I would be concerned about. And I'm with you. The Steelers are very, very pro player. And I'm very pro player. So I'm on Levy inside. I don't have any issue with what he did. I just, I would want to know was that an actual conversation or just a general feeling that he had? because it seems like the smoke that's coming from the Rothesberger situation has a bit of substance to it. Yeah. But I'm with you on that quote.

I would want to know more about what that was about. Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. So, Lakers didn't have a great season. We all know that. And they are going to aim to pair LeBron with another star.

But according to Bill Orm of the athletic, many experts expect other stars to follow in Paul George. his footsteps. He said after Paul George ignored the Lakers last summer, most league insiders believe the biggest names in this year's loaded class of free agents will follow his lead. If the Lakers can't successfully build a roster around LeBron James this summer, it's fair to wonder whether they will ever be able to maximize his powers before it's too late. You talked a little bit about how it kind of feels like the magic is gone with LeBron a little bit. A little bit. It feels like we kind of saw the human side of the superhero.

Well, after Kobe's second injury, he was still talented, but the magic was off. Like Michael in D.C. I saw him. He was still really good. You don't watch LeBron and feel that he is unstoppable anymore. He's not impenetrable. There's not a body armor. Which doesn't mean he's a bad player or still not the best player or second best player in the league. There's just like something a little bit off. And there was no feeling of he's going to be able to carry this team into the playoffs. Now, again, I still think that the injuries were the biggest part of this season.

There's a ton of storylines that affected the Lakers this year. But to me, if they don't have that major injury to LeBron, if Lonzo isn't out for that stretch, if Rondo isn't out for that stretch, Coosman doesn't have the issues he had. Ingram, I don't think that they're in this spot. I think they're in the playoffs and we're having a completely different conversation about this year in general, even with everything that happened with the Anthony Davis trade. So I still think that the injuries, while not the sexiest storyline, are the biggest factor in what happened with them this year.

There's LeBron leadership. There's magic and Polinka. There's Anthony Davis. There's lots of things you can point to, but to me that's the biggest. So next year, or going into this free agency period, I don't know. I'm kind of with them. I don't know if I'm a free agent unless I want to try and win right now. Well, if you want to.

And I have an open conversation and dialogue with LeBron about everything and obviously the Lakers. about everything that's going to happen. And I know someone else, another strong role player is coming there, and we can try and make this push. I don't know if I'm committing to that. There's lots of options these days. If I'm Jimmy Butler,

do I want to leave that team? If I'm Kauai and we get to the Eastern Conference finals and we're this close. I mean, listen, I don't buy, I got into this conversation yesterday where everybody thinks all these NBA players are political. No, or not. LeBron is, and that's cool.

But most guys, you know, Joel M.B. and Damien Lillard and James Harden. They like the ball. They got their families. They like the ball. They don't want to get into politics. This idea that every player wants to become the next. A lot of guys just want to stay in Milwaukee and Portland. Tim Duncan never wanted to leave. I mean, the grass isn't always greener.

There's expectations that come with moving to the Lakers or going, joining the Warriors. And players are seeing that now. It's very obvious. So Murray State's John Morant is having a good season this year. He's averaging 24.6 points, 10 assists, and 5.5 boards for games. name led more Murray State to their second consecutive NCAA tournament. They play Marquette today at 430 Eastern. And CBS sports analyst Clark Kellogg had quite the comparison for Morant.

He said his athleticism is comparable to a lot of guys, a bigger Alan Iverson, Russell Westbrook, in terms of speed athleticism in the open courts. Exactly what he looks like to me. And Morant had a perfect response to that. He said, I love that. Really, I just try to stay grounded and stay where I'm at. I'm at Murray State.

I'm just trying to win a championship. He's going to go very high in the draft. It's going to vary depending on obviously how things sort out with the draft and need-based. But he does have a very high motor and he's extremely athletic. And he's fun to watch. Oh, yeah. I mean, we're showing some highlights right now. Yeah, I mean, he's going to be a scoring guard, which that comes with a lot of good.

It's not always easy to play with, but it's Iverson was fun and Westbrook is fun and Stevie Francis and Marbury were fun. I don't think it's the easiest way to win a championship. Kyrie's a scoring guard. Now, Steph is, he just happens to play with an all-star team. But, you know, he's going to- Well, I mean, you need some other pieces around you, as everyone does, when you are that kind of player.

But he's exciting, and I'm excited to see what he does in the NBA. Finally, more incoming NFL players are making business decisions. Ohio State defensive and Nicobosa, for example, decide he wouldn't try to return from injury for the 2018 season. And he also decided not to participate in his pro-day workouts. and his reason was I just trust people close to me and they said it was unimportant. I got to do what's smart for me.

I agree with him. I don't really see the benefit of doing a pro day workout. He's already got enough tape to be considered one of the top picks in the NFL draft. What are you possibly going to do with the pro day workout that's going to sway someone? It doesn't make any sense. It can only hurt you.

You've got the tape. We talk about the combine all the time. We talk about these pro day workouts all the time. Unless you're a prospect that's trying to get on the board or get some attention, What is it that you're really showing? Well, I mean, quarterbacks don't go to the combine much anymore. I don't really see the benefit of it.

At this point, they're now going into their professional career. They're no longer college athletes trying to prove themselves. If you are a lower-level prospect, sure, that makes the perfect sense. But he's been in the talks for being the top pick in the draft. He doesn't need to prove anything at a pro day. So I'm cool with him sitting out for that. Good stuff. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping. The herd lie news. By the way, in all this free agency stuff, I want to remind you last year, the big signings in free agency, the big money that got all the headlines. So these were the big signings last year in free agency. Nate Solder wasn't great. Trumane Johnson of the Jets, not great. Malcolm Butler Titans, not great. Sam Bradford, Arizona, lasted about an hour.

And Kirk Cousins in Minnesota. I want to remind you that deals that got signed last year that weren't high profile but were very good. Honey Badger in Houston for a year was a nice signing. Mike Poutsy to the Chargers, very good center was a good signing. Eric Ebron to the Colts. Nobody talked about that. It was a great signing. So when I look at Randall Cobb go to the Cowboys, it's not a big headline grabber, but that now you got Amari Cooper.

You got Zique. You got your offensive line. Michael Gallup Young Receiver, Jason Witten now. They're going to draft the tight end. I don't know. That looks like a good move to me. The two guys that didn't get signed, Jared Cook going to the Saints,

I don't know why it took so long. Randall Cobb to the Cowboys. I'll say this. Justin Houston, at the right number, is a good football player. I'm surprised he's still out there. New England needs a pass rusher. Jets need a pass rusher.

There's a lot of teams in the United. They're about 14. Kansas City now needs a pass rusher. It's a little late. They lost Justin and D. Ford. So I would say some of these secondary mid-range signings by teams, I like a lot more than the big star signings. Marcellus Wiley played for a decade in the NFL, made himself a pro bowl. He's got to book out the degree from Columbia University.

By the way, I met the athletic director at Columbia University a month ago spoke highly of you. Peter. Yes, I saw you guys. You took a picture. What a wonderful guy. Nice hydration in the background. You guys were relaxing. He spoke so well of you.

Yeah. And what you've done. You know, it was interesting. I asked him a little sidetrack here. I said, what's your biggest concern is an athletic director? And he said, mental health. He goes, people like yourself that go to Columbia are achievers. And they've succeeded most of their life.

And you go to college and you get a C and you're not the best football player. Yes. So when you, see, you know, you had some duress in your life. So you were used to that in college. But he said Ivy League students, you know, they often go to prep schools, and he goes, then they come here and struggle. Yeah, it's amazing. Peter Peeling, you talk about getting that hard reset once you get to the collegiate level

because you used to be the front of the pack, front of the class, and now you get somewhere and you're just average. And that's still, in a relative experience, is daunting because you used to just go back on confidence and say, I could figure all this out. And now you're sitting in the class with a genius to another level on the football field, even though it's the Ivy League, it's still some good talent. There's NFL guys in there. Exactly.

It's still half a dozen, dozens, guys who have to make sure that you go inside yourself, find that confidence because that reset can also throw you off track. So, listen, Big Ben's a great player, but I've blamed him a lot for this. I don't need my receivers to be leaders or my backs. But when I draft a quarterback, I care about everything. I'm going to go look at your family. I said this about Russell Wilson. Ivy League and his family, I'm like, I like that.

I watched Johnny Mansell in college, money sign. I'm like, I don't like that. I was never a Johnny Mansell guy. So I do care about, you know, Wonderlake's not the end of the world, but it's 5%. And then your family history and your maturity, James Winston's problems in college, I don't like them. I didn't like Big Ben's early stuff with women. Here's my knock on Ben, is that whether you side with Ben or you do, don't. That in itself is polarization. I want my quarterback being polarizing.

That's my knock on Big Ben. How does it land for you all this? I'm on his side. Levian Bell. What do you make of it? Yeah, I try not to take a side because none of us been in that huddle, been in that locker room, but I will say there's enough circumstantial evidence to condemn Ben Ruffelberger of being a bad leader. One, if you want to start in the nearest incident, it was the fact that Antonio Brown took exception to having 168 targets, and Juju Smith-Schuster, who is a respected wide receiver at the number two position, had two fewer targets than him. And if you know how the NFL works in the pecking order and how we disperse the ball,

we sit there and say, why is he having two fewer targets this year? You can't say double teams. I have five years of greatness if I'm Antonio Brown. And you still found a way to keep that gap, that disparity between me and the number two. This year, he gets more touches, two fewer targets, more yards, MVP, really? And that's what leads everyone to Sam Ben takes out his emotions during the game. It's a passive-aggressive approach and tactic, which if I don't like you, well, then things are going to change in the dynamic of how we play the game. And I have examples in my own experience where I've seen organizations do it,

A running back in the 16th game has a performance bonus. All he needs is 43 yards. Mysteriously, let's rest you. Let's force you to get rest and not get those 43 yards. We don't have to pay that bonus. I've seen him with coaches and Bill Parcells and Eddie George, who has started 130 straight games at the running back position and started two games, the first two games in Dallas.

Got into the doghouse third game. He was on the bench for the first series and then put him out there right after that. Broke the streak. I've seen it with players, offensive linemen in San Diego, who said they let Ryan Leaf get sacked because they just got tired of his stuff. So we're not going to act like this is the first time

we heard of petty crimes that actually show up on the football field. It's been guilty of that. There's enough evidence to show that maybe he is acting it out. Go back to your career, Bill's, Chargers, Cowboys, Jags. Who was the best leader of the quarterbacks? I'm not saying necessarily the best product. Who was the guy that you felt like, wow, he's a guy's guy, he's an alpha?

Guys respect him. It's crazy enough. It was actually Doug Flutie. You think about it, a guy who's just been through it, you know, through all of it, the doubts, all the naysayers, the height. He couldn't compete. Actually made a Pro Bowl, was a great player for the opportunities he was given. But he was just a guy that could do it all and could be around all

and really engage and really inspire everyone. So just like you said, just one of the guys for every group, every faction. You know, Marcellus, I always use this analogy. at the end of a Tony Robin speech, he comes off the stage and he meets people I die. And, you know, that was Obama, even Trump. You can be on the stage and we can all look up at you. But leaders get off the stage and take a selfie with you.

Exactly. They connect. Listen, Big Ben, Carson Wentz, Aaron Rogers. I'm hearing pushback. Have we made quarterback so valuable in this league and so highly paid that there is a separation? I mean, that quarterback now is viewed. I mean, Kevin Colbert of the Steelers sounds like he's the co-GM. Right.

You know what's crazy? The quarterback position has always been of just utter importance. We knew that they had to know not only what they had to do with the other 10 guys on officer's side, but the 11 guys in disguise and defense had to do as well. So we never looked at the quarterback like, okay, you have a lot on your shoulders. We get it. But the personality of the quarterback, I don't think it's changed in totality, but there are those exceptions.

For every Ben Rafflesberger story, there's a Deshawn Watson story where you're sitting there saying he plays their position, he plays it very well of Patrick Mahomes, these young guys who still are playing that same position. But like you said, they get off of that stage, that pedestal of quarterback, and it's still just a common player. I think these are more of the exceptions than the rule. That's a good point. Yeah. Yeah, I think you're right. I think most quarterbacks, I think does Russell Wilson has innate leadership skills. I think Andrew Luck has innate leadership skills.

I think most of them do. I want you to talk about free agency. One of the dangers of big free agency, players keep score. I mean, in our business, everybody knows where everybody makes kind of right, right? You're better. You're not going to make it. One of the dangers of bringing in the big free agent is that, let's say I'm a left tackle,

I'm a right tackle, and I've given eight years of the organization, I'm well compensated. And then you bring in a left guard, and the position's not as valuable, and you pay them more than me. And I'm like, time out. I'm a tackle and you're a guard. Is there a danger in big free agency if bringing in a star that creates some resentment

if he's never been part of the system? You know, I've been a part of that. I've been on teams. You were a free agent. Yeah, I was a free agent and got paid more than junior sale. And that was an awkward hello. Because I'm like, I don't deserve this over this guy, you know, perennial pro bowler, all pro and then future Hall of Famer.

But it depends on the leadership in that locker room because everyone knows that the dominoes fall by birth certificate. It's by production, it's by potential, and it's by birth certificate. What do you mean by that timing? Yes, the time. If you're a young up and coming player, I was 25 years old going up the mountain and actually just getting better every year. And a position of need. And a position of need where I'm on a team with Bruce Smith. And he's just the man and he's been the man.

and all of a sudden because I'm the young up-and-coming one, I get paid more than the guy who's already been there. NFL model has always been that either proven veteran or potential guy. Yeah, but you're smart. You come into a locker room. You probably sensed that. Oh, yeah. I was on alert.

Before I even walked in there, I was on alert, like making sure. Let me make sure I put these fires out before they turn brush. So you did. Yes, you have to. Just because you know that everyone has been working for something, and especially on a team that hasn't won at all, A lot of times the big free agent goes to a team that is saying, we're going to get over the hump with you.

And you have to respect the equity that's in that locker room for everyone who hasn't gotten over that hump. So if you're going to be the savior, first you've got to go amongst everyone else and make them feel comfortable. I talked to an NFL GM a couple nights ago. He said, listen, he goes, I think most of these prospects in this draft at quarterback are B's. He goes, I thought, you know, he's like, listen, I thought, Darnold was an A. I think he goes, last year's class was, I thought, really good quarterback. And next year's is good.

Justin Herbert at Oregon, too. He goes this year, they're bees, but one guy's a little small, one guy's footwork's not great, one guy's inaccurate, the Missouri kid. If you were Arizona, what would you do? I stay packed. I stick with Josh Rosen. One, I moved up to get him at the 10th spot last year. Two, just to use Cliff Kingsbury's words against him when he was being glowing about a prospect

that he never thought he would ever get an opportunity to draft before a regular season game. in the Big 12. I don't know why that's the headline. I don't know why they're hooked to his remarks and to his thoughts on how good a prospect, Kalamari is. Respect to him. But at the same time,

I have Josh Rosen here, who was at one time a highly touted prospect. Somebody moved up last year for him. Exactly. So why would you now want to shelve that opportunity just to go out there and get another guy at the same thought process? Couldn't I, maybe Joy, you suggested this.

Here's what nobody's saying. what if Arizona there's somebody out there that wants a quarterback and goes to Arizona and says I'll give you three picks wouldn't Arizona say I can get I mean this is a draft with defensive players if you go to Arizona and give me your first and another first to first bottom line is Arizona needs more than a quarterback they need dudes yeah why would you not trade back you have a quarterback yeah I mean I think you can make a very argument if you're one of those four or five teams in Arizona could be one that really needs a playmaker at quarterback this here's a playmaker at quarterback I mean he's yeah I mean this is the season where we're We play poker and everyone is going to try enhance value or devalue.

So right now, this may be a situation where Arizona's just trying to enhance its value. There's a team out there that is going to throw everything at them. And then they're going to sit there and see if that's worth the trade. If not, it's going to incentivize some other teams to say, oh, let's jockey in position. And then you can drop down, as Joy said. And then you could get even more value for dropping down in the draft.

But just to swap them out, when there are some question marks about, Collie Murray at the position, I don't think that's a smart play. Marcellus Wiley, part of the FS1 team. It's great to have you. Thank you, brother. Thank you, Joanne. Great to have you. Coming up next, Aaron Rogers said something, quoted Shawshank Redemption.

I thought it was a wonderful, wonderful quote, and my staff thinks he's comparing the Packers to a prison. I do not. I will defend Aaron Rogers. We want your opinion next coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Great having Marcellis Wiley on the show today. Mark Schlarith, Jeff Schwartz, Matt Barnes. Good stuff today.

A lot of football stuff going on with the Pittsburgh Steelers who have given us more content. There's never been a non-playoff team that's given us more content. We are grateful for that. We are. So Aaron Rogers yesterday posted a farewell to Randall Cobb. Randall Cobb was played at Kentucky football, did a bunch of stuff, really talented kid in the SEC. Green Bay found him. And he was just a really good player.

He did slot. He made some huge plays. I want against the Bears when Aaron rolls out, finds him. Randall was a great player. Had some injuries, but he's on the free agent market. And I was saying a couple days ago to people on the staff, I'm like, he's a pretty good player. I'd love to have him as my third receiver. So Dallas picked him up yesterday.

Aaron Rogers went to his Instagram and had a movie quote describing him. I thought it was a very touching tribute, very cool. Good taste, Shawshank Redemption. It says here, here's the quotation on the Instagram from Aaron Rogers. I have to remind myself that some birds aren't meant to be caged. When they fly away, the part of you that knows that. it was a sin to lock them up, does rejoice. Still, the place you live in is as much more drab and empty than you're gone.

And I guess I just miss my friend. Friendship, teammates, brothers, Packers. I thought it was great. My staff this morning, my cynical staff said there are some key words in here that look like a shot at Green Bay. I'm like, what are you talking about? So put this up. My staff said, what about caged and lock them up and place you. you live, a drab and empty.

I said, guys, kind of a reach, no. So I said, why don't we just spend maybe two minutes on this today? It's not really a topic. The staff wanted me to put this in the first hour, and I'm like, this is not a first hour topic. So we'll just put it on my herd site. Do you think he's honoring a teammate or comparing Green Bay to a drab and empty prison? By the way, what is the current vote?

What's the current score? Oh, good hell, people. Oh, you Lord, people. How many people have voted? Well, I mean, in all fairness, it is a quote from a movie about being in prison. I'm not denying that. So. But you have to believe that Aaron Rogers went out to take a subtle shot.

I thought it was a, I cannot believe the vote. I think Aaron Rogers is a complex character. And I think he chose that quote because it is a, when, Red and Morgan Freeman's voice is very poetic send-off to someone in the movie that he had a relationship with. And then also it happens to be drabbing empty. You really? So you got to take it like one level deeper. I'm sure, you know what?

But no, my vote would be that he's saying a nice thing to his team. It feels like a nice thing. It's a great movie. So how many votes are in, Greg? Or 6,000? Almost 6,000. I do have to say, though. It is kind of a weird quote, though.

You think so? I mean, yes, because it's, it's, it's, it does talk about like being caged and, like, it does have to. He could use a different analogy here. He didn't have to go Shawshank with prison. Am I the only person 100% defending Aaron Rogers? I was, at first I was on your side. Now I'm kind of like, wow. You really got to pick quotes very specifically.

It's an important thing. It sometimes takes longer to pick the quote than it does to pick the picture. Wow. I just want the world to know. I never qualify any of my opinions. Don't like me. I don't care. But I would like to qualify this.

I am defending Aaron Rogers here. Every once in a while you have to defend Westbrook and every once in a while you have to defend Aaron Rogers. That is. So what 6,000 votes means? By 6,000 votes, whatever the percentage is, it won't change much. But it's hard to explain in our world. but once you get, believe it or not, once you get to about 18 to 20 votes,

that percentage won't change much, even after 18 votes. So it's 6,000 votes unless like a Packer website came in and, you know, and flooded the vote. It'll probably stay, you know, 55, 45, 45. I don't know. Wow. Well, you use the word. Good word.

Aaron's complex. And most interesting people are, and Aaron's a very interesting person. So smart, interesting people are usually complex. I don't think he's that complex here. I think he's pretty simple here. But I am being outvoted by my staff. I'm really softening a week ago. I defended Westbrook.

And I am, you know, I've been rough on Big Ben this week. Yeah, you're all over the place. I'm all over the place. Good stuff. Speak for yourself. Loaded over there and ready for a big Thursday show. There is some great stuff going on in the NFL. That's coming up next.

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