The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Best of The Herd: 04/30/2019

Episode Date: April 30, 2019

Colin thinks the NBA should fine the Rockets for releasing a report that the refs ruined their chance at the Finals last year because it is just more manipulation.  Now that the NFL offseason has slowed down, Colin ranks his top ten NFL teams in the Herd Hierarchy.  Plus, NBA Champion and 15yr NBA Veteran Kendrick Perkins comes in studio to talk about playing with Westbrook, Harden and why his Celtics team would beat the Warriors.  Presented by Perky Jerky. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness from professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions, about the challenges that shape them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire world. can do anything. I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart women's

sports. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on, a Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multimillion dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last. Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Best of Heard Podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday.

From 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1, find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Heard. This is the Best of the Heard. with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio. Ah, here we are on a Tuesday. Absolutely loaded. This is The Herd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening.

Live in Los Angeles, we're on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. Joy Taylor is joining me. In one hour, Joy, all the coaching hires in the NFL are done. All the free agency is done. All the drafting is done. I'm going to go with my herd hierarchy, the 10 best teams in the league today. Cool. 10 best on paper? 10 best on paper today.

The teams I think of the 10 best on paper, a couple of omissions that won't land well. And a couple of teams inserted that I think are going to be huge surprise teams. So beware Twitter and Cleveland and whatever. It's great to have you in. Good morning. I thought this was years ago Phil Jackson would tweak the NBA refs. Lakers coach Phil Jackson, Bulls coach. tweak the refs. And the NBA would often fine him.

Don't talk about refs to earn a series, trying to manipulate the series. Well, the Rockets did that and then some. The Rockets tabulated the net result of 81 potential miscalls and non-calls in game seven of the series between the Rockets and Golden State, and they leaked it to the media, and it was obtained by the place I used to work. The Rockets had a full report listing 81 blown calls. It cost the Rockets 18.5 points, 18.6. They went full analytics nerd. The Rockets also argue that veteran officials exhibit the most biased against our players.

This is a backfire move. This is intentional and a timely leak to influence the refs tonight. By the way, I just want to know all you geniuses in Houston. In that analytics report, did you have the part where you went 0 for 27 on threes in that game? What was that in the report? Remember that? You had that stretch in that game. were 0 for 27 on threes. Was that included in the report? Oh, that was an omission.

So let's blame it on the veteran officials. As I said yesterday, veteran officials don't fall for this BS. They don't fall for this hard and flopping soccer stuff. I'm the NBA. I hand out a huge fine to the Houston Rockets. This is not tweaking the NBA. This is trying to embarrass the NBA. They went full analytics nerd here, and I don't think it's going to work.

And you know what they say about karma? Karma is a you know what. Scott Foster is refereeing the game tonight. Scott Foster has a long-running feud with James Hardin and Chris Paul. The Rockets are 0 and 6. In the last six games, Scott Foster has officiated. Now, maybe the Rockets, they knew he was officiating tonight because that's assigned a while back.

And they thought, let's get ahead of it. But I think this comes across as they're trying to embarrass the NBA. I think it's a terrible look. and I think Adam Silver should find them. Listen, let's be honest about this. The rocket's formula to get to the championship was more calls and more free throws. This is where analytics fails. This is where analytics fails.

Here's what analytics does not tell you that the NHL, the NFL, and the NBA do not want calls, free throws, and penalties deciding Super Bowls. So in all those sports, NBA, NFL, and NHL, refs swallow their whistles in the playoffs. And the further it goes in the playoffs, NFC championship, asked the Saints, asked the Rockets last year. The further playoffs go, the more viewers, the more the games mean,

the more hockey, football, and basketball officials get out of the way. Analytics. Did analytics tell you that, Houston? What the NBA doesn't want is what the NFL faced years ago, where Joy and I would come on the air this fall, and when we talked about big games, we just talked about games. But a year earlier, I would come on my show and talk about catch-no-catch. And Roger Goodell came on my show and said,

we don't want every game. We're literally talking about the interpretation of rules. We want you to celebrate the NFL. want to have fun. Steve Kerr talked about this after game one. All we're talking about is the officiating. It's disappointing because the focus should be on two teams who played extremely hard. I mean, watching the tape. You know, both teams just got after and competed. But, you know, we just watched the tape upstairs. You don't think there were 10 calls that we thought we got fouled. I mean, this is how it goes. Okay. Never forget this. I said this yesterday.

leagues have a right to their own interpretation and their own officiating territory. Houston's trying to manipulate officials. Never forget this. Remember this joy? A couple of Super Bowls ago, Eagles Patriots. All year, we complained about catch-no-catch. And in the Super Bowl, the NFL did not tell the Eagles, did not tell the Patriots, did not tell Belichick, did not tell Doug Peterson, did not tell the teams. the NFL decided in that Super Bowl, common sense prevails.

If it looks like a catch, it's a catch. They went against their own rule, and they gave nobody a heads up. And you know why they did? Because they're the league. And my boss can do what they want. And the NFL can do what they want. And the NBA can do what they want. And the NFL decided without giving anybody a heads up,

we're not going to have the Super Bowl turn into a seven-day argument over the interpretation of a catch-no-catch rule. and they knew they were going to change the rule, and they did a month later. And the NBA knows they're going to change this landing area rule. They know they're going to do it in the off season. And they're not going to let these playoffs, and this is the finals, let's be honest. The Rockets Warriors is probably the finals. I mean, I picked the Celtics to beat the Warriors, but this feels like the finals, right?

They're not going to have this series dominated by, well, the interpretation of the landing rule. Common sense is going to prevail. and this is where analytics falls flat. I've told Darrell Mori this. I like analytics. I'm not anti-analytics, but I'm a big believer that you cannot reduce sports to numbers. These are humans.

These are athletes. I'd pay money to watch Hardin. I'd pay money to watch Westbrook. I want to pay money to watch Brady and LeBron. These are the world's greatest athletes we're watching. Let's not reduce them to a spreadsheet. Now, I think numbers matter. I think they matter.

But the reality, the reason Brad Stevens and Kyrie get along better today than two months ago, because they talk because they're human beings, not human doings, not numbers on a spreadsheet. Houston is trying to reduce this series to a spreadsheet. And the NBA is like, nah, no, we're not doing that. And the NFL did this two years ago in the Super Bowl. They said, no, no, no, no, we're not going to have this game become a six-day shlog of guys like, me and women like joy coming on the air and complaining for six days about officials. We're not going to have it.

And so the NFL didn't give anybody a heads up. They said, no, we're going to change things right now. And that's what the NBA is doing. And I applaud him. If you try to manipulate officials, and that's what Houston's doing here, leaking this memo, flopping, they're manipulating. The referees, the league is saying, okay, we're going to take a little territory back. and we're not going to give you heads up.

We're not going to release a memo. We have a right as a league to take a little bit of this territory back. By the way, Scott Foster's officiating the game tonight. Never forget what James Harden said in February about Scott Foster. Scott Foster, man, he's a, you know, I never really talk about officiating or anything like that, but just rude and arrogant. I mean, you aren't able to talk to him throughout the course of a game

and it's like how do you do that relationship with officials you know so and it's not even that call like it's it's just you know who he is on that floor it's it's pretty frustrating by the way i don't want you to have a relationship with the officials there's rules you're a player i don't want you to be able to curry favor buddy up i remember years ago hearing a story where a major league baseball umpire every year asked barry bonds for some autographed baseballs for his charity i want that I don't want you to have great relationships with the officials. I don't need them to be awful, but I don't want you carrying favor with them. And it's not an official's job to, by the way, invite you to birthday parties.

I'm Scott Foster. I'm a ref. I officiated in college to make money and intermurals. And the first thing I learned very quickly, don't smile, don't laugh, don't frown. Poker face, entire game. I wanted to be as robotic as I could. I didn't want anybody to think they made me mad. made me happy. I had any influence because if I smile to Hardin, that means the guy guarding Hardin thinks

I like Hardin. When I officiated, and I, again, this was like two years of college. My whole thing was robotic. I wanted nobody to think there was any influence. That's what Scott Foster does. That's what veteran NBA officials do, mostly. They get out of the personality business. I don't, Ed Hockily in his gun show, I could do without. Dick Bavetta and his humor, I could do without. I don't want a lot of ego. I don't want to know your personality. I don't want you being friends with the players. Come in, make calls. Thanks for flying United. Well, there's a reason there's no name on the back of their jersey.

Thank you. And I can't think of a worse job for you. I know. I had to be a robot. That is not for you. $8 a game at Eastern Washington. It paid for a lot of beers. That's good pay. $8. I do three games a night,

$24. That's a decent college job. It's what you do. Divorced parents. Guys got to eat. You're ref for two years. I can't see you holding a straight face for too much. I was the Scott Foster. Nobody liked me. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd.

Weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast. network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way.

Open your free, our heart radio app, Search, learn the hard way, and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies,

I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life.

Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the Aihar Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcast. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On hurdle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going.

From the WNBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star, Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like. you, but don't ever feel like you don't feel on. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladeki.

The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world, like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard.

Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. Philadelphia 76ers beat Toronto last night. I love watching Philadelphia play. I love watching them. I feel so lucky outside of LeBron, not in the playoffs, all the fun teams to watch. Boston's in. I love watching them.

I love watching the Sixers. I love watching the Warriors. I love watching the Rockets. Portland's now a fun watch. Denver doesn't do a ton for me. Either does Toronto. Milwaukee's fun. like Janice. But it's funny about Philadelphia. All this BS about the process. The only reason

the Sixers season isn't dead this morning is because of a player named Jimmy Butler. Here was one of his moves last night. Ambide with Siakum helping. Try to work with two defenders. Finds Butler. Oh, Jimmy Butler, Bullseye. 28 for Butler. By the way, the new GM, Elton Brand of the Sixers, smart dude. He didn't buy into the process. He scrapped it. And he said, get me Tobias Harris and get me Jimmy Butler. But analytically, they're really good players. Let's scrap the process. And since he did that, Joy and I have acknowledged, we like the Sixers. They got more good players. Listen, all this hipster BS with the process is a bunch of hooey. You want to know why the process works in Golden State? Because they got Steph and Kevin Durant and Clay. You want to know why the process and analytics work in Boston?

They got Kyrie Irving. You know why the process works and all the analytics work in Houston? They have James Hardin. That stuff works if you have stars. If you have great finishers, staff, Hardin, Kyrie, Clay. You can run that stuff in Memphis all day long. It's not going to work. Analytics are a bunch of hooey.

The process in Philly was a bunch of hooey. It works now because they've got four good players and Elton Brands like, get me dudes. Jimmy Butler's a dude. I mean, Jimmy Butler and Tobias Harris, not process. guys, guys they traded for. Elton Brand was like, get me guys. He did it. He got rid of shooters, by the way. Analytic guys love the shooters. He's like,

Jimmy Butler's not a good shooter, but boy, he's a good player. And Tobias Harris, hot and cold, but boy, he's a big, strong athlete, been on a bunch of teams I like him. And suddenly now Philadelphia has home court advantage in the second round of the playoffs. Last year, they had the analytic guys. Okay, so I'm really into Philadelphia's talent. Now, I do think there's some limitations. And I understand the media tends to fall in love with gimmicks and catchphrases and analytics because it makes them feel

smart. We get it. You don't. We're the media. We're smart. We get analytics. The stuff only works if you have the guys that can get it done, right? The Philadelphia, the fascinating thing about Philadelphia, and we're all going to watch

this thing unfold. And I think it's fascinating. They have four really good players. Embed, Ben Simmons, Jimmy Butler, and Tobias Harris. Elton Brand, who you got. And I have no problem. They're all. Embed's a brilliant player, but is all.

often hurt, and seven-footers don't get healthier once they've been hurt. He's missed 64% of his six-er games. Then there's Ben Simmons, who is a brilliant, transformational six, ten-and-a-half point guard, but can't shoot and doesn't work well with Embeded. Then there's Jimmy Butler. An unbelievable A-athlete, a player in the NBA, doesn't always get along with coaches and young teammates. And then there's Tobias Harris, who wants to get paid, who's going to get expensive,

who's got a great NBA body. has been on a bunch of teams for a reason. He's not a star. And they're going to have to choose a couple of these guys. And I've told you my belief on this, I'd go Simmons and Jimmy Butler. Because Embed, I'll say it again, it took six treatments per day to get him on the floor in these games. He missed playoff games last year. He's missed playoff games this year. Six treatments a day to get him on the floor for these games. Seven footers don't get healthier. He's got trade value. He's got a big contract, but it's not egregious. He's a great player. socially he's fantastic. He'll light up your city. I'd move him. It'd be painful, but I'd move

him. And I'd get a shooter somewhere. And I would keep Ben Simmons because they don't make six, 10 and a half point guards. He's in an elite class. He and Magic are the class. Six, nine or bigger point guards who can see the floor. Can't shoot, but get him shooters. I would keep Jimmy Butler because he's really, really talented. And I think his game works with Ben Simmons. He can do what Simmons can't. Simmons can do what he can't. And Tobias Harris, I'd keep him if I could for the right number. He's going to want to get paid. I'll probably have to move him or get somebody else. The fascinating thing about the Sixers is they got four dudes and they're going to have to probably select two to three of them. And I'm on Simmons because he doesn't get hurt. He's a unique all-time

talent. He may not be able to shoot, but analytically, he gets the ball two shooters as well as almost anybody in the league. And Jimmy Butler, they just don't make a lot of Jimmy Butler's. Veteran guy, tough as nails, big shot maker. He's a great athlete. He's just a better player than Tobias Harris. And Embed, as much as I like him, sometimes you have to move guys you like. It's not a center's league.

He doesn't handle a ball. Can shoot an occasional three, but he's not the future of the league. All that said, good win for Philadelphia. Like him a lot. By the way, here's the coach, Brett Brown, after the game last night, telling you what he thinks of Jimmy Butler. This was James Butler. That was the adult in the gym.

He was just a tremendous, just a tremendous sort of rock. He willed us to a lot of different situation. He was a stud. He really was an adult in the gym. Yeah, and that's one of the reasons I'd keep him. I just think Jimmy Butler is a very unique talent. Now, a lot of people think he's going to go to L.A. Boy, if LeBron could get him, LeBron's game works with Jimmy Butler.

Anybody that handles the ball, your game's going to work with Jimmy Butler. That I like. What's going on, everybody? John Middlough, three-and-out podcast on the Colin Coward Podcast Network. You like Colin's show. You'll like mine. This week, all NFL draft. I go over the things I hated and the things I loved in the first round.

The one thing of the entire weekend that really stood out to me that kind of melt your heart. And the Tyree Kill situation, is that a royal... Disaster for the Chiefs, three and out podcast with me, John Middlecock. During the football season every Tuesday at this time, I do my herd hierarchy. We judge the top ten teams. And this time of the year, even Vegas came out this weekend. Vegas came out this weekend and released their Super Bowl odds, division odds over unders, because now you've got all your coaches set, you've got all your free agents set,

and you've got all your draft set. So now is the time that I can look. Now people could get injured in exhibition season and can. camps. But now is the time I know what I have. This point forward, I feel safe saying, I like this team more. I like this team less. And by the way, in the AFC, Vegas has New England one, Kansas City, two, Indy-3, Cleveland Chargers, Pittsburgh. And in the NFC, which Vegas considers the better conference, Rams, Saints, Philly Bears, Packers, Cowboys, Vikings, outside shot to San Francisco. So I'll just tell you what I think. I consider everything. I consider Skis.

I consider free agent, I consider coach, I consider draft. And let's go. I'll give you my 10, what I believe this morning, and I'll give you a reason for all of them, my 10 best NFL teams. Heard hierarchy. Time is now, let's go. The top 10 NFL teams, according to college. Number 10.

Dallas Cowboys, I think they have a fairly low ceiling. I think there's some limitations offensively, but I love their roster. I get Amari Cooper for a full year. They added Randall Cobb and the adult grown up in the room, Jason Witten. I think you'll have a little bit more dynamic offense. They also had a bunch of offensive line injuries last year. They added a very good draft pick to their offensive line. I don't think they'll be as banged up.

This is a very good team. Amari for a year. I do think their ceilings a little lower than the Eagles and the Rams and the Patriots and, you know, teams like that. Number nine. Every year in the NFL, there's a surprise team. and mine's the Niners. Jimmy Garapolo is back. I think they added unbelievable free agents and draft picks.

Nick Bosa and D. Ford, combined on an offensive line with Bruckner and Kwan Alexander at linebacker. This front seven is going to be one of the better front sevens in the NFL. They also, besides Jimmy G, they went out and got one of the best wide receivers in college football, Debo Samuel, and that's what they really need. They needed more pass rush and a number one. playmaking wide receiver. Listen, don't kick yourself.

We know every year a good team goes into the tank last year, Jacksonville, and a team that wasn't good becomes very good. You can pick yours minus San Francisco number nine. Number eight. Chargers. And now it's inches not feet here with all these teams, except

my number one team. Chargers arguably have the best roster in the NFL. Their weakness over the last two years has been addressed. They did it again in this draft. They went and got a nose tackle. They have great edge rushers, but not much of an interior push. So they drafted Jerry Tilleri from Notre Dame that will include the interior push. Philip River sometimes worries me in big games with his decisions,

and I don't know if they have an A coach. I think they have a B-plus coach and a B-plus quarterback. Philip does worry me in big spots, and I thought they really got overwhelmed in that playoff game, a total head scratcher. You just don't see that with the Patriots, so I'd put him at eight. Number seven. Kansas City, a smidge better because I know, Andy Reid more and his history.

I think Tyreek Hill potentially not being there, I don't think you can replace him. I don't think Patrick Mahomes, when he lost Kareem Hunt last year, was quite as good. They lost D. Ford, although they did add Frank Clark. I like them a lot. But I just think if Tyree Kills not here, he's the fastest player in the league I've seen since Dionne Sanders. I've had defensive people in the league say there's no real answer for him. I mean, you've got to double them. We don't have anybody that can keep up with him, so I have them at seven.

Number six. Green Bay, I like Green Bay a lot. I think, first of all, I thought their draft and their free agent period loaded up heavy on defense. So it's no more excuses. Aaron's got the coach he wants. He's got a new, smart young coach, more progressive. And I think defensively, this will be Aaron's most athletic defense since his Super Bowl year. So I like Green Bay more than everybody else does.

I think they win their division. Number five. I like Pittsburgh, but by the way, Vegas likes Pittsburgh a lot, too. They got Pittsburgh at 9, 9 and a half wins too. I think Labian Bell, they won a lot of games without him last year. They also drafted a good running back that I think could be a semi-replacement for him. And Antonio Brown, I'm sorry. I thought he was a distraction.

He didn't show up for week 17. They had to answer questions about him. I still think this is an elite organization with one of the best GMs. I think it has the best offensive line right now in football. I think they have a Hall of Fame quarterback. They have a number one receiver in Juju Smith-Schuster. They added a very good linebacker to what I think. There's a couple of things the Steelers do well.

Draft linebackers and draft wide receivers. So I think they're going to be a very good football team. Number four. Philadelphia, great free agents, great draft. I like almost everything they do. They added Malik Jackson next to Fletcher Cox on the defensive front. Good luck. Good luck blocking that.

And I also thought they drafted the best offensive lineman, Andre Dillard, and as an aging offensive line becomes an issue, they solved it. They also got my favorite sleeper player in the draft, Stanford receiver, J.J.R. Sego-Whiteside. They also got Deshawn Jackson. Carson Wentz loves to throw the deep ball, and he can still run. I think Philadelphia is very much a Super Bowl threat to a favorite. Number three.

L.A. Rams. Added Clay Matthews, veteran Eric Weddell, first draft pick, Taylor wraps a defensive in the box safety. I think the Rams are really good. I think they were humbled in the Super Bowl, a little bit humiliated. I think they'll come back. I think Goff gets better every year. As long as Todd Gurley is healthy.

There's not much not to like. And Domiconsu's gone, but that's fine. And Domiconsu's kind of doing his own thing anyway. You give me Gurley, you give me Goff, you give me Robert Woods, you give me Aaron Donald. There's a lot of playmakers. Cooper Cup, by the way, comes back. He was not around for the last two and a half months. He returns now.

I like the Rams number three. Number two. Indianapolis. Last year they got beat badly by Kansas City. There was a reason. They weren't as good as Kansas City, and it was on the road. This year, they don't face a cold weather team. They're a dome team.

They don't face a cold weather team. And in the last eight weeks, they faced one elite quarterback, Drew Brees. I don't necessarily think they have the second best roster. I think they maybe have the eighth or ninth best roster. But they were 10 and six last year, and that was after a whole. horrible one and five start. They're not getting off to a one and five start. I think this team once again had one of the best drafts.

Added Justin Houston, a pass rusher. It is a very young team who nailed their first three picks last year. I think they nailed their first three picks. And frankly, I still think that division is theirs. They have owned Tennessee and have had their way with Houston in big spots. So I just think they have a psychological edge. And number one. Number one.

New England. Added Michael Bennett, a pass rusher, added Chase Winnevich as a draft pick, a pass rusher. So if there was two or three things they needed, they addressed the pass rushing. They addressed a wide receiver. Now, they did not address the tied-in. They got Austin's Severian Jenkins, a veteran tied-in, a big guy. He's got Gronk's size, but I don't think Gronk necessarily blocking ability. But this is the best coach and still among the best quarterbacks in the game, the best system,

the best overall coaching staff. They're money at home, and they once again are in a division with three rebuilding teams, Bill, Jets, Dolphins, so they have a chance to go 6 and 0 in division. Now, by the way, there's a couple teams that missed. Where's Cleveland? I'll explain next segment why I don't have Cleveland in. One of the reasons is all these teams outside of Green Bay and Aaron Rogers, and I think Aaron's pretty, I don't know, amazing.

I don't know what Freddie Kitchens is going to do. Secondly, Chicago Bears and Saints are not in that list. Right. I have them 11 and 12. In Seattle. I don't think Seattle's roster is as good as the Bears of the Saints. I don't have the Bears and Saints. I have them 11 and 12.

Bears 11, Saints, 12. I think they both come back a little bit. I thought Chicago was a bit of smoke and mirrors offensively. They were exposed in the playoffs on that. And I think the Saints have had back-to-back wildly emotional playoff losses. I think those start to add up. I think their division will be better. A couple more losses in division.

and then I have Cleveland in about the 13 spot. Houston, by the way, doesn't make it. I still am not sure. They've answered the questions on I think the NFL's worst offensive line. And Seattle, I don't love their roster. Doug Baldwin may retire. I think it's a lot of Russell Wilson and Pete's defensive schemes. They have two great players, Russell and Bobby Wagner,

and then they got a bunch of young guys that aren't proven. I didn't love their draft. It was fine. They got draft picks, but that's where we're at. I feel very good about my picks. I have San Francisco higher than most and indie higher than most. Other than that, I thought it was very, very, very responsible. You love the Colts.

Loved them last year. They got beat by a better team. Want more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves.

Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants.

answer. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase

that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway.

Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen, kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering our meaning, businessman, catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world. He doesn't look back.

Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levin this plant to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in America. in history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcast. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WNBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't belong.

Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs, Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladeke. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile. That means the world to me, and that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning.

It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Let's bring in the veteran NBAer for four or five different teams, the Celtics Big Three, the Thunderwood, Durant, West Burk, Hardin, Kendrick Perkins, 15 NBA seasons. A tough guy you didn't push around. Perks in the house today. I want to talk about, so I feel like I could be wrong on this perk,

and it's great finally to meet you and have you on the show. Thanks, big fan, by the way. Thank you. That I think Houston's trying to manipulate between the Scott Foster comments, between leaking the memo, the flopping. And I think what the NBA is saying is, time out here, we control the series. You're not going to control us. That's what it feels like.

How do you think the NBA, the officials, and the Rockets and Warriors respond tonight? Well, I think it's going to be zero tolerance from the referee points. I think it's going to be a point of emphasis going into the game. The referees are not going to want to hear anything from either side. And I think technical files will be issued out early. Wow. Yeah. I think they're going to set the tone early because at the end of the day, like, it's getting

out of control. Let's play basketball. And let's talk about basketball, not officiating. Yeah, about officiating. Like, at the end of the day, like, everybody was talking about, oh, they missed these calls. But Houston had several times to win this game, several different opportunities to win this game, besides the files that weren't called. And I could recall a couple of times KD took shots, and he didn't have a good land.

in the space and guys were under him. He didn't complain. So at the end of the day, let's play basketball. I mean, you know, like... Well, let's talk about Scott Foster. Now, Hardin complains about Scott Foster. He's a veteran. He's one of the four or five guys we all know.

You had a lot of Scott Foster playoff games. Did you like him? Scott Foster is one of the best NBA riffs in the league today. Because he don't play favoritism. Not saying riffs do, but it don't matter who you are. If you file, if you're Kevin Durant, if you're James Hardin, he's going to make the call. If you're Greg Popovich and you said something to him, he'll give you a tick. If you're Doc Rivers, he'll take you just like he'll take anybody else.

And so Scott Foster actually goes out there and do his job the correct way. He's a great official. Not a big personality. Not at all. But he has zero tolerance. He'll give you a warning, a second warning, and then he'll tee you up. But he's going to referee. he's going to referee the game the right way.

By the way, this is fascinating. So you were in OKC when they had a young Durant, a young Westbrook, and a young Harden. You were not only in the games, you were at practice. Right. Did you have any sense Hardin would be MVP Hardin? I knew James was going to be good, but I didn't know he was going to be this good. But I remember one game in particular. We was on our way.

The year we went to the finals. And I remember we swept Dallas, and it was game four. And Dallas was actually giving us a great game. And I remember, I think James had like 21 in the fourth, and I was like, Jesus Christ. Like, he's really like that. Then after that, he had a couple, the previous season, he had like 40-point games, one in Phoenix off the bench,

and I'm like, well, hold on. Then he won six men in the year award, and I'm like, okay, Then he came back from the Olympics, and I remember James telling me, he said, man, it's nothing personal, man. I just feel like I want my own team. And I was like, James, you sure? He's like, man, I feel like I'm a franchise guy. And he went to Houston and he showed it.

He showed it. Yeah, no, I don't have a problem with that. Like, it's funny because Kevin Durant, I've heard rumors, wants to go to New York. But unlike a young James Harden, we all acknowledge that Kevin Durant's the world's best player. James was saying basically, you people think I'm the third best player on this team. Right. I'll always support a young guy that says, listen, man, you got me coming off the bench. I'm a franchise guy.

Jason Tatum for the Celtics. If it's Kyrie's team and Jason's like, I think I'm a franchise guy. I get that. I don't get Kevin Durant going from the best team in the league, maybe the best run, making more money in Golden State than he would in New York to be the man with the next. that I don't get. Explain why he would do that. Well, I think it's better for KD because at the end of the day, as long as KD is on the Golden State,

it's always going to be a stiff team. So it's time for KD to have his own team, in my opinion. Can you imagine KD in New York? Oh, no, I think it's great for the league. It's great for the league. It's great for basketball period. And I just think, you know, he's done what he needed to do in Golden State.

But you know, Perk, you know, that you can only be as good as your owner and your management. You know that. Boston had really good ownership and you did really well. New York, James Dolan, you trust him? I mean, it seemed like you're trying to turn over. I mean, you got to give everybody a second chance or third chance, right? I don't know.

I don't know, Colin, we all have flaws in some ways. No, I'm not saying that, but if I'm a player, I got 12 years to hit it. A billionaire has 80 years to make money. Players got about 12 to hit it. I don't think I'm giving my career up to James Dolan. That'd be hard for me as a player. Would you think he have changed if he'd get Kevin Durant? Well, I think Kevin Durant would change the franchise.

Right. I think Kevin's so great, he would change the whole game. Let me go to this. So I liked Boston all season. Right. And people kept saying, no Milwaukee, Milwaukee. And I kept saying, listen, Kyrie Irving is the best closer under 6'4 I've seen in my life. Isaiah Thomas was close.

I agree. and I said, just don't get caught up in the regular season, Kyrie. Playoffs come, he's going to flip a switch, be more coachable, it's going to work, and it has. Do you have some sort of theory about certain players' regular season, playoff season? Absolutely. And Kyrie is a, and I'm glad you said, Kyrie, because he's a, he's a definition of what a playoff per, like he's playoff ready. He's playoff, Kyrie. Yeah, he's playoff, Kyrie.

So, like, for example, he starts the season off. He started the season off with the Celtics, healthy, came back, killed, make the All-Star team. Okay? That's one goal out the way. And then he knows he has to get ready for the long run, which is the playoffs. So after the All-Star break, you see Kyrie, he's sitting out a little bit, back-to-backs. Diles back a little. He dials back a little bit, getting his rest, making sure his body is right.

And then he comes out, playoffs start, and he comes out. playoff start and he comes out as a killer. It's simple. So some guys to you, Perk. Some guys, listen, you have regular season guys and you have playoff players. So Chris Middleton is a hard worker. Right.

Bus his tail. Three years of college, got demoted to the Fort Wayne Mad Ants, bus his butt and he's going to give you everything every night. But to me there's a ceiling to Chris in a huge game. I like him. Right. I don't see a ceiling. No, it's not.

So certain guys, in your opinion, they know. They know. And it worked that way for some road players. Just think about this, right? So, like, even with Derek Fisher for the Lakers, throughout the regular season, D. Fish, he wasn't good at all.

Playoffs came around. He turned on to a whole other, what people were saying, wow, we were in the one of this without Derek Fisher. So you have guys who actually play to make all-star games and stuff like that. But then you have guys who actually plan to win championships. So you do have regular season guys and you do have postseason guys.

15 years in the NBA, one of the tough guys, Celtics, Big Three Thunder, Cavs, Pelicans. Westbrook's a fascinating topic. I'm seen as a hater, and I've said before, he's unbelievably talented. But there are players. It doesn't matter if you played high school, A, U, college, or YMCA. Some guys are easy to play with, Clay Thompson. You could put Clay on every roster. Absolutely.

He just, he plays both ends. I think Kauai could put on a bunch of rosters. And then I think there are players. LeBron James wants the ball. Thank God he's great. But, you know, he can marginalize big guys. He forces Bosch to go outside. You know, he forces Kevin Love.

Go outside. Get out of the hole. Westbrook, to me, Perk, has a personality and a certain, like, rigidity. Here's how I play. I do think he can be tough to play with. Not doubting his athleticism, but in three years they won four playoff games. Is it fair for me to say

he's hard? We all played with a guy. I played at the YMCA with guys. And you're like, that dude is great. He's just hard to play with. Well, I'm going to tell you something. I agree with you to a certain extent because I played with Russ.

But I played with a younger Russ. Over the last few years, he's matured a lot. Better than when I was there. He has. He has. because when I was there, it was a lot worse. I remember times where I only had five shot attempts throughout a course of six games, right?

So what I'm saying is I watch Russ today, and he's matured a lot. He's matured a lot for us getting his teammates involved and stuff like that. I give you one instance. So, for example, we was in a playoff game, and Rush drove to the paint, and he passed the ball to surge, and it hit his feet.

And it was a bad pass, but Serge missed it was a turnover, and Russ blew a gasket. He was like, man, that's it, Serge, I ain't passing you the ball no more. So I, a couple of plays went by. We went to the timeout, and I said, well, Russ, listen, man, you can't do that. We need Serge, and we all have flaws. You have flaws we deal with. I have flaws that y'all deal with.

So you have to deal with his mistakes. I think Russ is so competitive that he experienced. everybody to have his skill and his athleticism. And his intensity. And his intensity. And it's not like that. So that's where you could see, you know, that's how it goes. But at the end of the day, I don't think playing with, I see a change in them though. You do. I do. Over the last two years, I really see a change in Russ. I really do. He's making passes that he's been making some passes that I haven't seen before.

Finally, do you like the Warriors to win it again? I do like the Warriors to win it again. Don't you think, though, it's funny. I've always said that the second best, the best team I ever saw was Jordan's Bulls because I thought I think they would take Golden State out of their game. Michael was so physical. Rodman was physical.

Ron Harper was physical. I always told them this is the skinny jeans team. If you take out Draymond Green, it's nightclub guys. I mean, they just all look good. Right. But I think if I was facing them, if you take the big three, Garnett tough guy, you tough guy,

Pierce good defender. We'll be Golden State. You would get physical with them. I mean, that's the way to beat him, right? Absolutely. But I think, like, if Golden State was to happen to match up with the Celtics and the finals, it would be interesting.

I'd pick Boston. It would be really interesting, especially... Horford? Yeah, yeah, without cousins. It would be really, really interesting. Perk, good meeting you, 15 years in the league. Hope to have you on the show again. Colin, thanks for having me.

I hope him to be back. Yeah, don't mess around with Perk. Perk doesn't take no BS from you, Goulet. Goulet can be a trash talker. Don't take any of them. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd. Weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeard Radio app.

We call it the three-word game. We do it during the NFL season on Mondays. Joy Taylor joining me in the herd. So we thought we'd do it now. The coaches are hired. The free agents are in. The draft is settled. Three-word game.

best for last. You guys ready to go? Here we go. After almost three hours, Colin apparently hasn't gotten to the point yet. Quit holding out on us, cowherd. It's the best for last. Three-word game, NFC. Let's start with the NFC East. Dallas Cowboys. Three-word game. Dax contract year. He's entering his fourth season. He went seven and two after they acquired Amari Cooper, and now you get Amari for the entire year. You brought in Jason Witten to calm the chaos of the Cowboys. Second most wins in the NFL since he entered the league Tom Brady is first. This is the year for Dak to pop and pay him the big money.

Eagles. Best quarterback returns. Oh, get off Nick Foles. He's going to go 6 and 10 in Jacksonville. Carson Wentz was an MVP before he. got hurt. The last two years, however, have ended in injuries. But in 2018, when he was healthy, career highs in passing yards, completion percentage, passer rating. They've added to Sean Jackson. They took the best offensive lineman in the draft. They got their guy back. Giants. Gettleman,

no plan. Last year was a quarterback year they passed on him. Okay, this year was an edge of rush your year. They had the six pick and they passed on it again. My argument is when he steps to the microphone, I don't think he has a plan. I do think Daniel Jones can play, but you're going to be paying him 18, 20 million bucks for three years to sit. They lost Odell, they lost Livia Vernon, they lost Lannin Collins. Some of those guys were very important to the locker room. How about Redskins? Haskin too much. Word play. I think Dwayne Haskins was my favorite quarterback in the draft, not if you're asking him to play right out of the shoot. His head coach, Urban Meyer, came on our show, loves the kid, recruited him, said he's not ready to run a $5 billion

franchise. And because they got Colt McCoy and Case Keenham and Alex Smith is hurt, I think they're going to ask him to play very early. And I think Washington's schedule is brutal early. How about NFC South? Saints pullback year. Drew Brees turned 40. Never forget. They finish the season four and three after finishing 10 and 1. They looked gassed by the end of the year. They had no first round pick this year. They lost dependable Mark Ingram this year. They've had back-to-back emotional playoff losses.

I'm not saying they're a bad team. I feel like they pull back. Panthers. Cam equals Westbrook. Temperamental, fashionista, wildly talented, kind of an emotional roller coaster. and I don't think always easy to play with. Again, Westbrook struggles at the end of years.

Carolina started well. Last eight games, one and seven. Falcons. Ice, ice, maybe. Maddie Ice, I like him, but they finished the year seven and nine. They did add two offensive linemen in the first round. But this division, last couple of years, it feels like it's trending away from Atlanta and to the Saints.

This is kind of an important year. Kyle Shanahan left and you didn't answer the belt. Now they had a ton of really bad injuries early. So I think this is a rebound year for Matt Ryan. He did improve from 2017 to 2018 across the board. 20 TDs to 35. Bucks. James or James isn't.

All right, you'll find out. We got 16 games. with Bruce Ariens to find out. And Tampa's got wide receiver talent. They got a great young tight end at Alabama. This is the year. Like, you're going to make a decision really quickly. If James Winston the dude, and if Bruce Ariens, because they got talent,

if Bruce Ariens can't turn it around, James Winston will just be a talented guy who was never the franchise guy. Remember, he got suspended last year for three games. He just isn't going to be the guy. If Bruce can't get it right, it's not right. NFC West, Cardinals. Cliff got Kyler. Listen, only the second team in history to draft quarterbacks in the first round in back-to-back years.

And this was really all about Cliff Kingsbury. We're bringing this offense, which is all about athletes and quarterbacks. And Kyler Murray is a game-changing athlete. I'll say this. I'm fascinated to watch it. I think it'll sell tickets. And in that division where they're the fourth best roster, they felt they had to take a big swing. It's a big swing, but I think it can work.

Seahawks. Russ got paid. Four years, $140 million. Now the key is draft picks and get cheap on both sides of the football. I didn't love their draft. Doug Baldwin is retiring and appears. I think next year they'll be battling for third with Arizona in their division. 49ers.

Surprise title contenders. I don't care they were four and 12. Jimmy G. And between their free agency and their draft. D. Ford, Kwan Alexander, Jimmy G, Jason Barrett, Nick Bosa. I think

no team personnel-wise improved more in the last four months. Free agency and draft and the 49ers. I also love their coach, Kyle Shanahan. I think they got their backfield right with Coleman from Atlanta. How about Rams? Gurley or Gurney?

Todd Gurley got diagnosed with an arthritic knee. That's the franchise. I mean, to me, if Todd's good, I'm good with the Rams. If Todd is a 15-carry-a-game guy or cannot withstand the 16-game assault on your body, I kind of feel differently about the franchise. I still like them, but man, is Todd Gurley great? And never forget this last year. Last two games, 45 rushing yards total.

And that offense in New Orleans and in the Super Bowl did not look the same. NFC North Vikings. Cousins Rebounds slightly. Kirk Cousins took a PR beating last year. Can I just say this? It was his first year in the system. I do think Cousins has a better second year. They re-signed Adam Thielen, who's a very cagey receiver.

I think they got arguably the best offensive lineman in the draft, arguably Garrett Bradbury, the center from NC State. I think last year was a lot of pressure on Cousins and a lot of heat on him. I think deep breath, he improved slightly. Bears! Barely above 500. Listen, Trubisky's last five games, I thought it was a lot of smoke and mirrors. His last five games, five TVs, five picks.

I think Matt Nagy's a brilliant coach, and he fooled you. He's a copper field. Left, right, trap, lit. But in the end, the last month, everybody got the film on the Bears. and Trubisky was incredibly pedestrian, and I think they're a 9-and-7 football team. For the record, that's what Vegas thinks. Lions!

Patriots minus winning. All right, they drafted a tight-in that looks like Gronk. They took Danny Amandola and Trey Flowers, and Matt Patricia, the head coach, was the defensive guy for Bill Belichick. They got all sorts of Patriot connections. They just got to turn the L's to W's, and then turn that. frown into a smile thing?

Turn that frown upside down. Yeah. So right now that the Patriots, you know, without the winning part. Sounds fun. Hackers, no more excuses. Folks, all sorts of talent. Aaron got the right coach. They've gone heavy defense

in the last two drafts. They'll have the youngest, most athletic defense. Aaron Rogers has had since the Super Bowl. I think they're going to reclaim the NFC North and win. in the division. But now, let's not talk about no defensive help. They've gone massive defense last two free agent periods and drafts.

Free word game. AFC tomorrow. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. And every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, from professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions. about the challenges that shape them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire world.

Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. I'm Michelle McPhee,

and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on, a Mormon polygamist and an Armenian. and businessman. Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis,

private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human.