The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Best of The Herd: 05/21/2019

Episode Date: May 21, 2019

Colin reassures dramatic West Coast NBA fans that the West will open up with so many free agents looking East. And, even with Kevin Durant most likely leaving the Warriors, everything will be just fine in Golden State without him. It looks like LeBron's entire career is going to end in the same dramatic fashion it began, in mayhem, since the Lakers are a total mess ripping the cape off of superman, LeBron cannot overcome their bad management.  Presented by Perky Jerky. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on, a Mormon polygamist, and an Armenian businessman.

Multi-million dollar house, Ferrari's and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion-dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud

on the I-Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness from professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions about the challenges that shape them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire world.

Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of I Heart Women's Sports. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlic.

On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs, banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Best of Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday.

From 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1, find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd. This is the best of the herd with Colin Cowherg on Fox Sports Radio. Ah, this is The Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, we are live in Los Angeles on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. Joy Taylor is joining me.

We are packed today, all sorts of stuff as the Lakers dysfunction rises to new levels. It's crazier than ever. I will defend kind of magic. I'll defend LeBron today. Although I don't think either has had a last great stretch. Joy Taylor's joining me. Joy, how are you? I'm great.

Good morning. You look like corporate executive, Joy Taylor. Maybe that's my calling. It's not. You're going to be firing people today. It's just the shoulder pads. It makes you seem very important when you wear shoulder pads. Well, you're always important to our show.

Let me start with this. There is this feeling. Here comes free agency. and Durant's going over here and Kyrie's going over there and Kauai's going over there and everybody's moving around. It's got me crazy. It's going to change the NBA. No, it's not.

No, it's not. In the third quarter last night, the Golden State Warriors had on the floor, Clay Thompson, Jonas Jerepko, Sean Livingston, Kavanaughan Lunei, and Jacob Evans. They swept the second best team in the West Portland. They haven't lost a road game. since Kevin Durant got hurt and Boogie Cousins didn't play last night. And Iggy, an MVP in the finals a couple of years ago, didn't play and Steph's at 90%. Listen, I've always said Michael Jordan's Bulls are the best deepest team I've ever seen.

Warriors, Showtime Lakers, probably second place. But these Warriors, are you got to be kidding me? No KD? You keep telling me, best player in the game. No Boogie Cousins All-Star. No Andre Iguidala. And you sweet Portland? Could Michael Jordan's Bulls be missing Michael, Horace Grant, and Tony Koo Coach,

and sweep those old Pacers or Knicks? You've got to be kidding me. There's a great stat in this series. The Warriors trailed for more minutes 101, then they led Portland, 83, and they swept them. Folks, they're just toying with people. I mean, that game last night's a great example. Stay close, stay close, stay close, use the bench, stay close, stay close. All right, three and a half left.

Bing, bang, boom, hit it. Overtime win. Game over. Thanks for flying United. They're toying with people. And there is this notion that free agency is going to change the world. But let's just talk about the West since 80 to 85 percent of the best players in the NBA are currently in the West. Take out Janice and Kauai. Who do we know for sure? I mean, we don't even know if Kauai is going to be in the East next year. we don't know where Kyrie is going to be next year. 80% of the best players, minimum are in the West. 14 of the last 20 NBA titles, I think it'll be 15 out of 21 have been won by the Western Conference.

So let's just talk about the West. Chris Paul's a shadow of himself. They have no salary cap flexibility. And frankly, P.J. Tucker, Chris Paul, they're old. Let's talk about Oklahoma City and Utah. Let's not. They don't have enough shooters. Let's talk about Portland.

Good team, like them a lot, not championship level. Let's talk about the Lakers. Complete chaos. KD leaves to the east. It's not changing the West. It's not changing the West. And the West, like the SEC in college football, is where champions are made. I don't see anything changing.

And next year, the one thing this sweep guarantees is that Dremont's going to get a max and Clay's going to get a max and Steph's going to get a max. And Steve Kerr's not going anywhere, and they've shown an ability to draft really well, and the young players have stepped up. And if KD leaves and goes to the east, Brooklyn, New York, whatevs? It's not changing the West. It's not changing the West. And that's where the stars are. That's where the champions are.

And I'm watching that thing last night. They, by a long shot, trailed more minutes than they led and swept Portland. I went to Vegas, looked at the odds this morning. It's not close. the Golden State Warriors next year, and they have Kevin Durant leaving baked in, are a heavy favorite to win. What about the Clippers? What about them?

They're the Clippers. They have never been consistently dominant in the NBA. When it happens, I'll acknowledge it. To this point, they haven't even been the Raptors, good but disappointing in the postseason. They've just been the Clippers, the second most popular team in one building in the NBA. I'm watching this thing last night. I'm not sure this isn't the best team we've ever seen. I don't think you could have taken Michael Jordan, Dennis Rodman, Horace Grant,

Tony Kooch, and they'd sweep a Knicks. Well, the NBA was way better than, oh, stop it. The New York Knicks ended up in the conference finals. They had two decent shooters on the roster. We've never had an NBA with this many good ball handlers and this many good shooters, with this much open space for artists to be artists. I don't want to hear about how great the NBA was. The Pacers, Knicks back then were shooting 70 free throws.

Some of the all-time classic Knicks, Charles Oakley, the late Anthony Mason, couldn't shoot. I mean, this league is all about skill. And when you can lose the people there losing in Sweet Portland, well-run, well-coached, Starring Damien Lillard, just a big, wow. And let's shift to this. So yesterday, it was cats and dogs living together. The Lakers announced their new coach. Magic times it perfectly and makes sure on the day the Lakers hire a new coach,

magic's on another network ESPN ripping the Lakers. LeBron in all of this was in the back. Wasn't really talking. Looks like he was just working out. And Bill Plashke wrote an article this morning. He said, LeBron looked disengaged again. hard, would it have been for James to wander over to the media and give a quick quote or two to support the new guy who clearly needs it?

Vogel said he talked with LeBron. It was all positive, but LeBron's body language told an indifferent story when he could easily, easily could have refuted if bothered to invest one ounce of emotional energy in the team. Now, I have been very critical of LeBron this year for being disengaged. Let me pivot here and support LeBron and what he did yesterday. Could I make an argument? LeBron was hiding to protect his brand and I don't blame him.

It was strategic. Where does he win if he talks? He's distancing himself from the worst run iconic brand in all 50 states. Listen, magic gets to walk away from this mess. LeBron is trapped in this mess. And I banged on him all year for being aloof and not engaged. This morning, he's better off standing in the back and watching the festivities. LeBron has been in this NBA for 16 years.

All but four of it, he's dealt with ownership issues, coaching issues, roster issues, chaos, disharmony. Miami was the exception. Great owner, Pat Riley, Eric Spolstra, and LeBron, and I get it, chose to leave, in hindsight, not the greatest move. But for 12 of LeBron's 16 years, he's dealt with, and again, take Miami out of it. He's dealt with moody stars, often injured Kyrie Levant stars, Kevin Love, Kyrie were hurt. He's dealt with guys who don't step up like J.R. Smith in Big Moments. He's dealt with head cases.

He's battled owners. There have been GMs fired. And now look where he's at. It's almost fitting that LeBron's career could end like it started. Mayhem. Didn't work this way for Dr. J. or Michael Jordan or Magic or Dirk or Bird or Shack or Steph or KD or Duncan. Or now James Harden. Good ownership, smart coaches, nice rosters.

I mean, let's be honest about this. LeBron's career appears to be ending the way it started. He's carrying an utter mess. Isaiah Thomas on first things first yesterday. Had some thoughts on it. This is where I think the NBA in all league has truly failed LeBron James. Because every place LeBron James has gone, they've always given him either a first-year coach

or someone that they were experimenting with. And they always took unnecessary chances because you had LeBron James. LeBron James has never had the benefit of, in my opinion, Hall of Fame coaches. He had a Hall of Fame front office with Pat Riley in Miami. However, you know, they gave him a rookie coach. I mean, everybody else had more. I remember Dr. Jay, good coach, good front office, good roster. Magic inherited Kareem.

Larry Bird, Kevin McAil, Robert Parrish. Dirk had a good owner. Rick Carlisle, top coach. I mean, you start looking about the stars. Look what Steph walked into. KD. I mean, let's be honest. Sam Presti, Westbrook Hardin wasn't terrible. Now he's with the Warriors.

You start looking at the top 15 players of all time. One, started with a mess, had to leave, felt guilty, went back to his hometown in one, moved to Los Angeles when that started to deteriorate, Kyrie leaves him. And I don't blame him for standing in the back, not commenting, disengaging, protecting his brand, I'm not saying a thing. And I've been critical of him in the last six months. But if I was LeBron, I'd look at this mess and think, I'm going to keep my distance

because they have pulled the cape off Superman. and he has more than done his fair share in his career. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back.

Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant this plant to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. from the WMBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that.

Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't belong. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs, Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladeke. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me.

And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. at our level at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations. with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keer Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast. Learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search, learn the hard way, and listen now. So there's some numbers now.

These are not small sample sizes. Like, you know, if I said, hey, you know, Shaq didn't play for one Laker game in his prime. and they won. That means the Lakers are better without shack. Give me a large sample size. We now have a large sample size of Steph and KD playing together. They have played together over 200 games. And when Steph and KD play together, they win 61% of their games. That's very good. We also have a massive, massive sample size when KD and Steph play together. They win 78% of their games. It's a massive sample size, too. And now we have a pretty large sample size that when Steph plays without KD,

they win 90% of their games. They're 34 and 4. This is not four games, 6, 8, 9, 12. It's almost 40. And many of those, as we're seeing now, the recent ones are against good teams and now playoff teams. let's just skip ahead one year from today. We know narratives are very powerful in framing legacies.

So one year from now, Steph, Clay, Dray, Drayman, improving young warriors, Steve Kerr win the Western Conference. I think they will. They've proven they can win without KD. KD goes east. I'm told he'll teach. team with Kyrie. I'll throw this out there. Brooklyn. Yeah, that's actually getting talked now,

Brooklyn. They're good, they're fun, they're exciting. But let's go with the averages in both careers. KD doesn't care much about the regular season. Is interested, but by the All-Star break is getting ready for the playoffs. Kyrie gets hurt once, maybe twice, difficult to play with, always has been. They win a bunch of games. They're absolutely fun. But because it takes a while to start chemistry, they end up being like a third seed, and they end up playing in the second round, Milwaukee, and they get whacked by a team of the better coach, more depth, a big time star, better chemistry, and that got to the finals the previous year. And what are we saying one year from now?

Let's start with Steph. That guy didn't need any, Katie. Boy, you know what? We got to put him top 10 all time. Here's the thing about Steph. KD never understood how good he had it. And what will we be saying about KD in a year? I don't understand why I went with Kyrie.

Karee is just like Westbrook, and Westbrook drove KD crazy. I'm not sure he should have left the Warriors. He's sitting home like LeBron watching the finals on TV. Boy, the grass isn't always greener, I'll tell you that. Skip ahead to a year. You're watching the Warriors Suite without KD. Like we know in a year what we're going to be saying about Steph Curry. Best shooter, all time, leader, ball handler, the system, curd, Draymond's so amazing in the postseason.

Clay doesn't get the respect he deserves. We know the West controls the NBA. One 14 of the last 20 titles. 80% of the stars are there. I don't know. I don't know. But we got better or not better. I don't know.

But 34 and 4, and now like 7 and 0 without KD tells me they're at least fine without KD. They're at least okay. They can sweep the Western Conference finals without him. No boogie, no KD, no Iggy last night. Steps 90%. Look ahead a year. Just look ahead one year. be very careful with your choices, Kevin Norent.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. I mean, I've worked for this company, the previous company, three local radio TV corporations, actually four. So over the course of my career, of the seven corporations I've worked for, this is currently the best corporation I've worked for. I can say that, and I've said it multiple times on the air and off the air, because of its structure. It's nimble, it's quick on its feet, it can quickly pivot. Bigger is not always better, but faster's always better than slower. We're quick, we move, we're nimble. I've worked local, regional, national.

You cannot overcome bad management. It doesn't manage. I tell people all the time when I talk to college kids. Chase management, not money. LeBron's a great example this year. He's Superman. And the Lakers have literally ripped the cape off. There's nothing he could do.

I mean, as great as Kevin Durant is, he was struggling in the playoffs because they traded James Harden and got an end table and an encyclopedia for him. In the end, you can't overcome bad management. No matter who you are, LeBron's first seven years in this league, he didn't have an All-Star next to him. He couldn't get past Boston. Forget the champion. Jimmy couldn't get past Boston. So remember, Michael Jordan came into this league. First couple of coaches didn't work.

Then he got Phil and Phil figured out smart guys to bring with him. They put it together and then he couldn't beat the Bulls. And so lost in all of Magic's greatness is that he inherited Kareem and Magic didn't get Kareem to Los Angeles, the ownership and the management did. So yesterday, Magic Johnson went out and there's a general consensus that Magic sort of did the right thing. He protected his brand. I defended him yesterday.

And he only really hammered Rob Polinka. But in reality, what also happened yesterday is, and Ramona Shelburne put this out there in an article well written today is, it did create more chaos and it undermined the current structure. As Ramona said, this time around, Johnson blindsided Jeannie not once but twice. Second time came Monday morning when he went on the airways and hammered people. Rob Polinka, Tim Harris, an executive and family member. They refer to each other as brother and sister, Magic and Jeannie, but he's proved to be incredibly distrously. and damaging. So again, let's go back to the management.

There is something called like a pyramid of success. There's a flow chart to success. And let me give me an example. With a Miami Heat where LeBron played, Mickey Erison, a very smart, thoughtful, good guys, the owner at the top. And then Pat Riley has the final say, he's got some hubris, got some ego, but he runs the organization. And then they found this really young, talented coach they trust, Eric Spolster.

That's the big three in Miami. And let's go to the Warriors. Okay, so Golden State Warriors, you got Joe Lacob is the Silicon Valley rich guy at the top. There's a little bit of ego, but you got Bob Myers and Steve Kerr making the salary cap, roster moves. They're the second tier. Lakeb trusts them implicitly. Then you got the big four beneath. You got grownups.

Those are big four. You got Steph and Durant and Thompson and Green. You may lose one. But the structure is smart owner, two really brilliant guys beneath him, and really big, grown-up NBA bankable stars. Let's go to the ever-improving Clippers. Steve Bulmer, Microsoft money, buys the team. Very energetic, very dynamic.

What does he do? Well, he goes and finds one of the NBA's smartest old sages, Jerry West. And he puts him next to this really smart young guy who people thinks one of the smart young guys, Michael Winger. Okay, so you got the veteran smart guy, and he got the young smart guy. And then basketball, Doc Rivers, a grown-up. You trust him. You know, Jerry's having meetings with Doc, and Michael's having meetings with Doc.

Doc's the grown-up on the basketball floor. And you trust him, hey, sometimes he benches good players. He goes to them and says, let's move. Now let's look, those are the pyramid of success, the flow chart of success. Now let's look, this is a spider web. This is the Lakers current situation. So there's Jeannie Bus owns it, but she really listens a lot to her friend Linda Rambus,

who of course is married to Kurt Rambus, who just got hired in the organization. Jeannie also listens to Phil. They dated for years. Now, Jeannie's also very close to longtime operations guy, Tim Harris, smart guy, but he was now, according to Magic, involved in some basketball situations.

And there's Rob Polinka, who's super tight with Kobe, and we think they're both kind of tight. to Jeannie Bus because Rob survived all this bad press. Well, LeBron's kind of floating in the middle of it disengaged, but we know he's close with Rich Paul. Rich Paul swears to me. He and LeBron are just letting him run the organization.

By the way, Tim Harris and Jeannie are tied to Frank Vogel, the new coach who's tied to Jason Kidd, but we think they're at the bottom of the flowchart because they're not even officially owning a home in Los Angeles yet. And oh, by the way, there's Magic Johnson off to the right there. Sorry for our radio listeners. We think he's tied to Jeannie, but he just called out Jeannie twice. So I doubt Jeannie considers him brother's sister, like Magic said, two weeks ago on Twitter.

And look at this. Remember John Gruden used to have that football call, Y2K, banana, spider, that's what it looks like. That was like a football play from a coach on steroids. That kind of gave me a headache. Okay. That is their current power structure. Sorry for our radio listeners, but now let's go back to again, the nimble, like I said, bigger's not always better in business, faster and quicker's.

always better than slower. So let's go again to Miami and the Warriors and the Clippers. In all three of those, very simple. The billionaire, the basketball savant, into the young Wonderkin, the young smart coach. Miami, simple, small, nimble quick. Let's go to the Clippers who have suddenly looked incredibly well run. the billionaire into the old sage next to the new brilliant personnel guy and the veteran high IQ coach. Simple, nimble, small, few voices.

Let's go to the Warriors power structure. Billionaire, two really smart former players. And then veteran grownups, who by the way, players are athletes, they're artists. They can be a little dysfunctional, but it's mostly grownups. Small, simple, fewer voices, nimble, can move. Now let's go to the Lakers. The hell is this. Well, this is why Magic was saying there's too many voices in the room.

There's too many people with an opinion that matters. By the way, a month ago, Magic was way up at top. And now he's way off to the right. And Magic yesterday on TV said, our Lakers, so he's still part of the team. But he called him out. It's a lot. I mean, I'm not a, I didn't go to Wharton. I didn't go to a business school.

That's not the way the power structure should look. That's not the way it should look. That's bad. That's not the way family decisions should be made. It's not the way anything should look. It's just, not even a strong spider web. They build out. Yeah, spider webs, they almost art.

They are, there's a, and they're very strong. Very strong. Spider-Man was strong, sinewy strong. This is just, this is a mess. It's like an unraveling sweater. Lord. And you know, it's funny. So, because I live in Los Angeles, in a part of town where there's a lot of Laker employees, they're generally very, even during these trying times over the last five years,

they're upbeat, they're optimistic. Like if you have any Laker connections now, they're not optimistic. Like people, when you listen to that Frank Vogel press conference yesterday, I mean, I don't think it's a coincidence that Frank Vogel kept saying, cohesive, we need to get that. Frank Vogel was basically praying that this thing could get. He wasn't just speaking to fans. He was speaking to Jeannie and Polinka and the rambuses and cinch this thing up.

Just out of control. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back.

Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey, I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levin this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life.

Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On hurdle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WNBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't.

Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't feel like you don't feel on. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladeke. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile,

that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world, Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama,

the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters, to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it

and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch life becomes about wins and losses Steve Burns, Dustin Ross because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid because that's two different intentions bro

absolutely and that's two different levels of trust I want you to just really be a good person Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Well, it's my pleasure. I have never had the opportunity to meet BJ Armstrong, a three-time chant with the Bulls, a one-time All-Star. I remember you played at Iowa. I can remember you playing with Steve Kerr, who you know well. It's amazing. When you're successful like yourself at a very young age and you just keep growing, you still are you. How old are you, by the way, BJ?

51. Holy mother of youth. Oh, my gosh. I've got to thank my parents for that. Yeah, you better. Let's start. You're now an agent. I want to start with Steve Kerr because Steve was at a time when the three-point shot was considered

corky, often dangerous. Don't shoot that. Don't shoot that. Okay. Steve was one of the first bullseye shooters in the league. There's all these stories that he and Jordan and feisty, there was punches thrown. Go back to Steve Kerr, the player. Give me a story, the niche he sort of found in the league.

Well, I think Steve is very underrated from his toughness. Steve has always been a very tough, tough player. And I remember when he first came to Chicago, he had been around the league. He was with Orlando, kind of bounced around a little bit. He was with Cleveland. But the one thing I always appreciated about. him was his toughness. You know, he has this youthful look, you know,

young, he's funny, very charming, but he's a very tough kid. He's a grinder at heart. And that was the one thing that I appreciated about Steve more than anything is that he had an incredible understanding of the game, but he was willing to grind, throw his body around a little bit,

even though he was little himself. I mean, we both, you know, at the time, probably 165 soaking wet, but he was able to grind and he was really a tough player and had a great By the way, you had to be because MJ was tough and Michael didn't take practices off. So, I mean, there's a legendary story where Steve Kerr did not back down from Michael Jordan. No, he wasn't.

And, you know, as I look back on our time, I think we played two or three years together. I never imagined that he would be a head coach. I always knew he had incredible communication skills. And I think that's what has allowed him in his career, whether it was GM or coach or on television allowed him to be able to adapt to whatever the situation is. And he's had a great job and had a terrific run thus far with the Golden State Warriors. How do you describe people, Michael Jordan's fascinating because, you know, everybody's the best this and the best that.

Let's get out of that. I do believe he's the most relentless player I've ever seen. I think Kobe is in that class. Michael was, he would, not that he wouldn't take occasional possessions off, but the steam would come off his head. He'd have these eight-minute burst. Take me to a practice. Was it like that at practice?

Well, the one thing, you know, I always say about Michael and my time spending with him is we didn't see the best of Michael Jordan. He was as good as he was in the game. He was that much better in practice. He attacked practice with the same ferociousness, the same discipline, the same. He was very mindful that, you know,

know what? He was going to transfer what he did in practice to the game. And he was an incredible practice player, the best practice player I've ever seen. I was always amazed of his ability to respond. He would play 40 minutes one night and come back and practice with the same intensity the next day in practice and attack it with such, you know, he was ferocious in the way he attacked practice. So to me, that was his greatest quality. He was an incredible practice player than one that you just had to respect because, you know, not only was he going to beat you during the game, he was going to attack you in practice the next day, you know, not just give a half effort. He was going to give you the effort that was necessary for him to be the very best that he could be

and the very best that we could be as a team. Yeah, I always said Michael's teams, those teams were the best I've ever seen. Golden State, at least on the offensive side, is the most lethal. There's just so many shooters. Right. And I do think if the hand check was allowed, Michael's team would win. If it's what the NBA is today with spacing, I think Michael's team would struggle just to cover all the space, the corners. If they matched up and you took half the old rules, half the new rules, you think it'd be competitive, good.

I mean, I always felt the Showtime Lakers were the second best team. Kobe Shack Lakers, maybe third. If you took these warriors and those bulls, what you know of both. Yes. What do you think the matchup would look like? Well, I think you hit it, you know, I think you're dead on with the rules. If the rules were different, the way the team was constructed, the way the Bulls teams were constructed back then, were constructed with hand checking and all the rules and take advantage of the rules that were in place in the 90s.

Today is a different game. Playing against the spacing and the way that the Warriors play, I mean, it really is, it poses a lot of problems defensively. How are you going to defend them? How are you going to defend screen role? How are you going to, you know, really channel Steph Curry? and then you got Clay Thompson, then you got Draymond Green, who is excellent at finding players.

So I think if you kind of staggered it down the line, I think it would be a very competitive series, a lot of competitive basketball. But most importantly, you know, watching Steve Kerr as a coach and then thinking he's going to have Phil Jackson on the other. I think that would probably be the most intriguing because you would have a great chess match.

You know, it's funny, you're in the, you have Derek Rose, Josh Jackson, Javelle McGee, Emmanuel Moodye, Bismarcki, Bejambo as players, your client's part of the Wasserman agency. You know, we talk a lot about free agency. And like, Kauai Leonard's a fascinating player. So Kauai is quiet.

And that's okay. Mike Trout, down in Orange County, is the best baseball player. Some say since, you know, Mickey Mantle and Mike plays and then Mike goes home. Right. And Mike's not interested outside of a subway commercial of doing that stuff. Bryce Harper's got a little more flare, the hair, the Pinnash, whatever. What do you think matters to Kauai Leonard if you could? Like, forget where he goes.

Would he be difficult to represent as a client? Can you gauge, you know, I mean, listen, everybody works in San Antonio. He didn't. He got tired of it. What do you make of Kauai? Well, you know, Kauai's personality reminds me of a player I worked with for many years and still work with Derek Rose. You know, as quiet as Kauai is, Derek Rowe is probably quieter than him, okay?

And that personality in today's world is kind of, it doesn't fit because, you know, we're constantly scrutinized by the media, whether social media, television, or what have you, you know, we're looking for the big personality, the Michael Jordan personality, the Irving Magic Johnson personality. You know, those personalities, we tend to really keep the camera on, and it makes for great news, it makes for covering coverage. But Kauai Leonard is a throwback. He's without question one of, if not the best player in the game currently. He is that good of a player. And I think he's a throwback in the sense that you know what, every player that's played with him, every coach that's coached him, respect him. And every relationship that you have is always

going to be built on respect. You respect his work ethic. You respect who he is. Even though he's not a talker, he lets his playing do the talking form. So you know what? He comes in. He doesn't say much. That's fine. But it's a rare combination because you want that first guy to have this huge personality, which he doesn't have. I guess that's my question. Tim Duncan did it. But generally, Michael, Magic was a force of personality. Yes. Michael wasn't seen as a big personality, but I always had a feeling that Michael in the locker room did plenty of talk.

You know, Scotty, by the way, got the number one manel when Michael left, and I never felt he was quite comfortable with it. That's what I felt. Well, yeah, you know, Michael's personality fit. You know, he was like three-dimensional. He was a great player. He had a great personality. and he enjoyed being the very, the first guy.

He enjoyed it. He wanted to be Michael Jordan. He wanted to be the best player. He wanted every night, he took on that challenge every night. Where I think Scotty had this incredible talent. He was incredibly gifted as a player. But Scotty wasn't always the guy that wanted to spend the extra 15, 20, 30 minutes to take the interview and answer all the questions and do all of the things that master talent.

And I think that's why it was so great for him to play with Michael Jordan, because he could just be Scottie Pippen. And I think that's probably Kauai Leonard's personality more than anything. So sometimes your personality doesn't fit exactly where you're at. But again, sometimes it does, and it's a perfect fit. And Scotty Pippin was the beneficiary of playing with Michael Jordan because he didn't have to do that for many years of his career. You know, I look at the Lakers right now, and I was saying with Joy,

they've literally, the Lakers, you cannot overcome bad bosses. I've had the opportunity. I've worked with a lot of good bosses and a lot of good people. And I've bounced around the country, seven different companies. And there's a certain pyramid of success. We talked about it earlier where, you know, with the Warriors, it's Lacob, Joe Lacob, the owner, you know, into Steve Kerr, Bob Myers, and then the veteran players.

It's a very simple, nimble pyramid. You know, I put it up here on the wall today with the Lakers. I got nine different people with different opinions. I don't think LeBron can overcome it. What do you make of what wins? in this league? What's the secret sauce of the recipe beyond, hey, we got a bunch of good players? Well, you know, that's a

great question. And I've been around in this league now 30-something years. And if there is a secret recipe, you know, the recipe looks like this. You have four people that sit at this table of success. You have the owner. You have the general manager. You have the coach and you have the player.

If any one of those people aren't aligned with the other, it's a recipe for disaster. It will fail. It will, it's guaranteed failure. So the one variable that you need to have success in this lead is internal leadership. And it

doesn't matter where it comes from. It can come from the players. It can come from the general manager. It can come from the owner. It can come from, you know, the coach. It doesn't matter where it comes from. So what we're looking at is, if you don't have the alignment of those four people... And they don't. Then this is what's going to happen.

But this is a problem throughout the entire league. This isn't just a Lakers problem. You see this all the time. There's only one thing that allows these problems to go away, and that's winning. Winning covers a multitude of sense. Winning covers everything up. So the real issue here is that you have to address these issues with those four people, because those are the four people that stand to communicate,

which leads to cooperation throughout the rest of the organization. They have to be aligned with one another to have success. You're an agent with the Wasserman agency. BJ Armstrong is joining us. So what if you had a client? Let's just say his name was Kevin Durant. Okay. And he could make more money where he's at and has, I believe, a better structure where he's at.

But he has things and pursuits that maybe, in your opinion, that as an agent, don't serve him well. What do you do as an agent? And I use kiddingly, Kevin Durant, but let's use an anonymous player. that he had something made up in his mind and you wanted to dissuade him, but he is the player and he's paying you. What do you do as an agent? Well, first, you have to listen to your client. And that is my number one, number two, and number three is I have to listen to my client and listen to what it is that it's important to him and what he wants for his career.

This isn't my career. It's his career. So I have to listen. And to be a great listener, I think is one of the requirements. to becoming an agent. You have to listen to what your clients are saying. Today's kids, you know, they have spoken. And the one thing that they're hanging on to is they want the respect of the people that they're working with. That's the one thing I think that today's kids, unlike in my generation or, you know,

25 years ago, today's kids are hanging on to the respect that they demand from working with the owners, the coaches, general managers. or whomever, other players, okay? When this league in like in the 90s or so, the late 90s, is when I saw the shift in the way the players started to think at the tail end of my career. Players started, once the salaries started being kind of, you know, a standard across the board, all salaries were the same.

The max was the max. You know, the mid-level was the mid-level. You took away the competitive spirit of the player. That's when it changed. when you took away the competitive spirit, all the max players were going to make the same. All of the mid-level players were going to make the same. And then that's what took away the competitive spirit.

And now the players are fighting for the one thing that's important to them where they play. They want that. They're holding on to that because that gives them a say-so where they live, who they work with, how they want to be treated. And most importantly, where they think they can be most effective. And that's what you're seeing with today's kids. So if I was working with any player,

and I'll have many players that, will be a free agent this year is to listen, to see what's important to them, and then to be able to discuss and try to get that place for them and make a win-winner, not only for the organization, but for the player, because that's very important to today's player, unlike 20 years ago, where we didn't really think about that. Finally, B.J. Armstrong, an agent for the Wasserman agency, an All-Star and an NBA champ. You know, whenever I hear people bag on young kids and millennials and blah, blah, blah, I'm like, time out. We didn't grow up with the devices, we'd be distracted too.

I am my son. That's what I would have done. Instead of being at the bowling alley playing Atari, I'd have been on my device all day. And so when people bag on the NBA players, I always look at them and I say, it used to be the high school coach barked at you. And no A you recruiting you.

You went to where you grew up. And then you went to college, and the college coach barked at you. And then you came in the NBA and fire coaches every 15 minutes. I don't blame the players today. they're, by the way, by 13 AAU coaches are recruiting him, then basically college coaches are like,

could we just come here for one year? And in the NBA, we fire coaches. Like, I think players are not more difficult. I think the system and the culture has changed, and they've been empowered, and they want more power. I watched LeBron's career, and I'm like, yeah, by the way, in Los Angeles, he surrendered the one-year deal to a four-year deal.

It's done him no good. He probably would leave tomorrow if he could. So are the players, changing? Has the culture changed? When I hear people bagging NBA guys, they're divas, there's prima donnas, kind of go into that, how basketball when you started and the basketball 14-year-old

today? Well, you know, the environment has changed, the coverage has changed, the popularity of the game has changed, and more importantly, you have more and more people that want to play the game. You know, more and more people around the world, this is an international game now. A third of the league now are

international players that are playing in the NBA. A third. A third of the league. I mean, game has just the growth and popularity of the game is growing. So the game looks different. I think now the kids are way more informed. I enjoy working with the kids today. And more

importantly, when I was 19 or 20, I didn't have this idea of how I could best, how the game should look from my eyes. It was always, well, he's the coach. I'm the player and I kind of, you know, I just do what the coach said.

Right. It's kind of like, what you said earlier. Today's kid, they have an idea of who they are. They have an idea how they can be most effective. And I think their exposure to the game and how they can be best used far as surpasses what we did 20, 30 years ago. So I think today's kid is much more sophisticated and how you have to coach them. And I think Steve Kerr is an example of that. You have to communicate with today's player at a level that I don't think coaches are used to doing. I mean, you have to really I mean, if you just took Steph Curry and just made him into a point guard, is that very effective for him?

Because he arguably may be a better player without the ball than he is with the ball. And he's an exceptional player with the ball. So the sophistication in which you would have to coach a Steph Curry, I think now the game is more sophisticated. The problems. And these kids are way more skilled. By the way, it used to be you could bark. You now have to form a relationship with a player.

Absolutely. But I think that's, you should always form a relationship with a player. I think today's kid. Well, Phil Jackson was a little ahead of that then. Phil Jackson, you know what? Any way that you can communicate with someone, I think is great. Phil passed out books. Phil had all of these different things.

But the one thing about Phil is that he knew that the way he spoke with me was going to be different than he spoke with Scotty, which was going to be different way he spoke with Steve, Dennis Robben, Luke Longley. And I always respected that because he saw me. He didn't just see, he just didn't see the, you know, a bull's uniform. He saw BJ, and he, and I respected him for that. So, and that I felt comfortable playing for him just because I knew he was looking at me when he was coaching me.

How did he speak to Dennis Rodman? That's another segment. BJ Armstrong, absolute pleasure. Thank you very much. Right around the corner from us. Got to have him on more often. NBA agent with the Wasserman group, BJ Armstrong. Thank you, BJ.

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