The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Best of The Herd: 07/05/2019

Episode Date: July 5, 2019

Doug Gottlieb fills in for Colin and explains why the Lakers should be the 3rd choice for Kawhi Leonard. He explains that if Kawhi does join the Lakers LeBron will be in completely unfamiliar territory as not the best player on a team. Plus, FS1 NBA Analyst Jim Jackson explains what Kawhi should do and the challenges of coaching stars like Kyrie and KD. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

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this is clivert taylor the fourth and on my podcast the clivert show i'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff like being an internet famous referee we're in the middle of a game this linebacker this linebacker walks up to me he goes a ref my mom wants you to wave at her what Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Rhett, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker.

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This is the best of the herd with Colin Cowherd on Fox Sports Radio. What up? Welcome in. This is the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be making this part of your day. Colin says in a daily basis, I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin Cowherd, who has promised to join us if Kauai Leonard makes a decision. Somewhere, the mountains.

Utah, Colin Cowherd, who is backpacking through the wild wilderness of the Wasatch Valley, will join us via a cell phone if Kauai decides. And we wait. And there are three very unique and interesting possibilities here, right? Remain in Toronto, which, by some people's estimation, will change how we view trading players who don't want to go to a specific location. And Paul George last year, Gawai Leonard this year, if they both stay at a place that they previously said they had no interest in staying,

what does it say about Los Angeles, where both players grew up, and what does it say about trading a guy to a place he says, thanks, but no thanks, I don't even want to go there. It's just a way station. If he chooses the Clippers, I mean, we could be in an era where Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving choose the seventh most popular professional sports franchise

in the tri-state area. That's what they did. The Nets are the seventh most popular professional sports franchise in the tri-state area. Behind the Yankees, the Mets, the Giants, the Jets, the Jets. Yes, of course, behind the Knicks, and behind the New York Rangers.

And the same could be said for the Clippers. like the clippers are lovable, likable, they've built a good culture, but if Kauai Leonard chooses the clippers, over the 16 banners in the same arena that the clippers occupy, it staples, that is, they are at best the seventh most popular sports franchise, counting USC football, right? Dodger baseball.

the Lakers, the Rams, I would even put the Chargers. All right, maybe not the Chargers. Chargers are better, just not as beloved. But the point is this, there are three very interesting choices, and none of them look or feel really alike. Of course, the Lakers would be aligning yourself with two fellow superstars, with almost no real culture of winning, been to losing his franchise in the NBA over the last six years. Like that is stunning.

It goes counter to what you think of when you think of the Lakers. But that's the decision that Kauai has. I grew up in Southern California. Twice in my life I made the professional decision to move back home. Now, I was not making the $30 plus million that Kauai will make. So different tax bracket, different lifestyle, different proximity to where I'm going to work, different profession altogether. but I can tell you that everyone does this thing.

Why don't you put a pro and a con list together? You do the pros, you do the cons. I actually think that's a highly flawed process because pros and cons, it makes every pro and every con seem like they're actually equal. And they are not. Like taxes that you're going to pay, they're high in California,

they're higher actually in Canada. but that's not really what leads to happiness and enjoying yourself. I don't know how affected he is by weather. Like my wife does not like cold weather. Does not. But we chose to live in Southern California, and we live in one of the beach communities where, you know what, it actually doesn't get hot,

and she kind of doesn't like it as much because he's like, man, when's it going to get hot? Like, I don't know, people like to live here because the sea breeze, it never gets hot. Well, that's not what I wanted. Whereas some people like the cool air. Depends on where you live. Not every pro, not every con,

equals out to each other. And so, let's just say it as we know it and as it's real. I'm Doug Gottliebilling for Colin Cowherd. It's a mistake to go to the Lakers. It's a colossal mistake. And it doesn't mean that if you went to Lakers,

they wouldn't win a championship. It doesn't mean if you went to Lakers, it wouldn't help his brand tying to one of the most powerful brands in sports. It doesn't mean I'm cheering against the Lakers or cheering for any other team. I'm just telling you that sports people, basketball people, adults will tell you it's a mistake. Unless there is something pulling you home. Like the first time that I moved home, my dad had his first bout with cancer. And in hindsight, even though it was probably a mistake professionally to move home,

I look back in hindsight and I had two years with him that I will never get back. If that's what's pulling him home, I'd back off. But in terms of playing basketball, when has it ever been fun to go in like, let's just go get the three best players? It's not fun. That's not what you look for. If the idea is I want to win, you can win. It was just proven.

Granted, a lot of things had to go in their favor. Like to people who think that the Toronto model is the model for the future, like, look, yeah, I guess it is. If you can promise that the better team on the other side of the bracket is going to lose half of their roster due to injury, sure. But the point is this, you know you're going to win. They've established a culture of winning over the past half decade that you help put them over the top. You know how they're going to treat you. You know how much time you're going to get off. And oh yeah, by the way, you can still have your office.

season life in Los Angeles while you have kind of your professional life in Toronto. Heck, I'd make the case that the clippers are the better fit. You can still get Southern California. You still get a quality culture of winning and of guys that are playing together and playing the right way and you get to have the ball. If you think that it's going to work out with LeBron James, you might be right. Proof is in the pudding. He did go to eight finals in row. But how enjoyable an experience was it really for Chris Bosch to be the third wheel?

Or for Dwayne Wade to be the second wheel? Or for Kyrie Irving, who could not wait to get out from the shadow of LeBron James. If you're chasing brand recognition because you're not getting it in San Antonio or in Toronto, maybe you should tell your uncle,

hey, dude, I don't talk, I don't speak. It's kind of hard to be a spokesperson when you don't spoke. Right? Maybe you have a new balance deal because it's just kind of hard to pitch a product and a guy that doesn't really sell any product because he doesn't want to sell himself. His sale is, I'm the best player. You figure out the rest. I'm not Canadian.

I'm very realistic with the fact that as much as they love basketball, they're going to always love hockey more. I get it's a foreign country. I get it's not a site, place that he chose. But I can tell you that moving back home to move back home is the most cliche thing ever. And oh yeah, by the way, there's a reason that there's another cliche statement. You can't go home again. You come back home, you're like, man, I'm going to reconnect with people. If you weren't connected with people since you left, there's probably a reason.

And it's not distance. It's definitely not expense. if he was a guy that was so connected and wanted to be interwoven in the community that he grew up in, well, then he would be connected and interwoven in the community he grew up in. He would be on Facebook on the MLK High School reunion page. That's what he would do. I'm not telling you that Southern California isn't a great place, and I can't imagine what it would be like to be worth $100 million.

You can live where you hear, shh, shh, every morning. And you can kind of melt into a community where, yeah, you're a star, but you ain't the biggest star.

The idea that people are going to track him down and TMZ him, not really. But from a professional basketball perspective, you never want to be a part of that circus. There is no established culture. You have no idea about how the coach will

coach your team, let alone your other stars or you. You've already been shown by Toronto. They give you the time off. They'll put the team around you. And if it's not working at the trade deadline, they'll go out and make some profound moves. Isn't it enough? I don't know what Kawhi Leonard will do. I don't know. I'm just as interested as all you are. I have the people I know in the NBA and everyone feels confident in something L.A., something, Toronto. He's going to stay, he's going to go. I've heard clubs are planning celebrations in Toronto. I've heard very smart people say,

no, no, done deal going to L.A. I don't know. And it doesn't actually affect me either way. The league probably wants him in L.A., but the league doesn't have a say in this matter. They just don't. but the idea of lining up three guys who all need the basketball, who all play some form of the same position at different times in their careers

and putting them together on one team when you're already on a championship team, like, what are we doing? How do we get to a place in sports where you would ever leave a championship team that gave you 22 nights off in the regular season, built everything around you, celebrated your presence, and then would do anything for you to stay. What are you searching for? What do you need?

Everything you have is right there. And if home is what brings you there, isn't it pretty obvious the better fit is the Clippers? Don't know what he can do. Know what he shouldn't do. He shouldn't go to the Lakers. Even though they would absolutely be competitive for a championship with him, and they may be competitive for a championship without him.

That's not always the point. The point is not always to win. The point sometimes is how you play the game. And unless you want to make a dramatic departure from how you've played and how you've evolved as a player, oh, LeBron's going to play off the basketball. LeBron is going, he's going to let everybody else. Everybody else make plays.

When has that happened? Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you content. and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good

person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure,

and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search, learn the hard way and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff,

like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker.

Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The story I've told myself about love or relationships, can they, shape my behavior and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not because. becoming more social and connected.

We're becoming more individualized, but we actually need people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd, weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. sure if anybody's thought about this. And I know that Nick Wright's going to spit out his coffee as he drinks going back to his palatial state somewhere in New York City. Look, stats would tell you that LeBron James was not the problem last year. He was great, right?

27, 8 and 8. And if you don't actually watch basketball games, again, you simply go by stats. Russell Westbrook was the best player in the league. We average triple double for the third straight year. So if we want to go by stats, you'd say, LeBron was great and Russell was the best. Neither were true. Neither were true.

If you watched LeBron James, he tried to fit into a different style at times and maybe that limited some of his production. But it wasn't a production thing. It wasn't about the number of points he put on the board. It was about the way he moved, or maybe the way he didn't move. it was about his inability to be, well, LeBron,

impact the game at both ends in so many different ways. He just didn't move like he used to. He didn't defend like he used to. He didn't obliterate mismatches offensively the way he used to. Sure, he's become so skilled that he can pick his spots and still make plenty of shots and get plenty of rebounds, but the actual substance of what he did, he was not the same. LeBron James is 35 years old

and Father Time is in fact undefeated and though I'm told he's down 15, 20 pounds knowing he needs to play lighter and more agile at this point in his career. He's gone through this before. He's done the off-season Jenny Craig program for basketball players where he's going to trim down and slim down.

At the end of the day, he's 35 years old. His contemporaries, the guys he came into the NBA with are mostly retired. Sure, Carmelo is still posting videos one on none dominating in a New York City health club, but between the toxicity of having him on your team or just his

inability to play the other end of the floor, he's not in the NBA currently. Duane Wade has retired. Kind of Chris Bosch is retired. Granted, that was because of blood clots, but at this point in his career, he probably would have been working his way towards retirement.

That doesn't mean that LeBron needs to retire. just means that a reasonable person can say he's on the downside of the peak of his career. Kauai Leonard is at the peak of his powers. It's a two-time finals MVP. He is, by my estimation, the best player in the game because Kevin Durant's out with injury. We don't know what he'll look like when he gets back. Age-wise, style-wise, skill-wise, confidence-wise, Quy-Lonertert is the best player in the game. And if we're willing to concede that we have not yet seen the best of Anthony Davis,

one because of some injuries, two, because of some age and some evolution, and three, because the players around him, what if I told you that if Kauai Leonard chooses the Lakers, LeBron's actually the third best player in his own team? And look, we can all say, well, that's perfect for LeBron, because he's always liked to get everybody else involved. He's even said, and I love this statement, that he celebrates more when others have success on his team

than when he has success. But ask yourself, When was the last time LeBron James wasn't the best player on his own team? When was that? When was that moment? Wasn't high school. Wasn't AAU? I could make the case that a couple times on Team USA,

Kevin Durant was actually the better player, the better score. But if LeBron was not 1A, he was a 1B. Outside of that, from the moment he arrived in Cleveland, the second he stepped out in the court in Cleveland, he was the best player. To Miami, where he joined Dwayne Wade and let it be known he was the best player. When he came back to Cleveland, he was the best player.

When he went to L.A., he was the best player. So a guy who's had the lead in every play he's ever been in, somehow now we expect him to take a secondary or even a tertiary role? What happens in movies? Scene stealer. What happens in television shows or radio? What happens in radio shows when you have a driver and a reactor?

And the guy who's always been the driver's a reactor. People fight over the mic. People try and make grandiose points. And what happens in sports is LeBron may want Kauai or Anthony Davis if it all comes together to succeed. but he wants to be the guy that made it happen. And maybe this is unique to basketball. Maybe it's not.

I think it kind of is. The idea that Kauai Leonard may take and make the big shots but would do so off the hands of a pass of LeBron James, that goes counter to every reality that we've ever seen. Like, we've got to stop and think about ramifications of this. If Kauai goes to the Lakers, LeBron James, based upon where he is age-wide, in his career. You could argue with me all you want about he's the greatest ever, the second

greatest ever, whatever. The third, greatest of force. We can argue all that different stuff. I'm not arguing where he has been at the peak of his career, the longevity of how long that peak has lasted. I'm not arguing that with you. I'm not doing the Jordan versus LeBron thing. I'm not doing any of that. What I am saying, and this is really important, is he has never been in a place where he was not the best player. And he ain't the best player. He can still be great. He can still be a top five, a top ten guy.

He ain't as good as Kauai Leonard. And most people in the NBA think that Anthony Davis is right there, and Anthony Davis is going to get better playing with better players around him and coming into the prime of his career. That's not where LeBron is. So the idea that we know anything about how he would handle it, how they would handle it, how Frank Vogel, who was not close to the first choice,

will handle it. Could be the most fascinating element of what may be the biggest team and the biggest story of the upcoming NBA season. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to SportsSlic on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped. up in the chase, that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing, and we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about on healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way.

Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected.

We're becoming more individualized, but we actually need people in. connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everybody? John Middlecough, three and out podcast, brought to you by Colin Coward's podcast network. You like Colin's show. You'll like mine. I talk all football. Chris Sims, ranked his top 40 quarterbacks, and he was way off. Zika Elliott, does Jerry Jones officially have a problem?

And we dive into the AFC North, the Cleveland Browns, and all the over-unders for the division. Again, three-and-out podcast with me, John Middlecock. He is the ageless one. He is a lead college basketball analyst and NBA analyst on all things Fox Sports. He's the one and only Jim Jackson. He joins us. He covers the big three. He covers the NCAA term.

He does it all. What do you think? Like we're sitting here and we're just waiting, waiting, waiting. What do you think? I think he stays, but let's back up. How about this from a perspective? And I don't know if Kauai's camp looked at it in this way. But if Kauai makes a decision Sunday or Monday,

he falls into the same pile with Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving, Clay Thompson, and then get a lot of press. But since this thing has been, stretched out all across the media outlets is all about Kauai. So from a marketing perspective, you couldn't have it better because everything leading up to this is all about the Kauai. It's the summer of Kauai now, but whereas before, it was all about where's Durant going, you know?

So I don't know if his camp kind of played that out or said, this is how we're going to do it. They had to do with the interviews, but strategically, I think is awesome because all we're talking about is Kauai. What would you do? I want you to put, I don't, I don't want you to, carry his burdens or his bag. Just your, you personally, you played in what,

12 different teams? All right, so you're in Toronto, you win a championship. You have L.A. is home. You got clippers. You got Lakers. You got Raptors. What would you do? The person I am, I'm a real loyal person, okay, to a fault at times. And if I'm in Toronto

and we've won, they've given me everything I've asked for. They prove to me that we can win a championship. The management has proved that they'll do whatever it takes to win. We have a great staff, great team. I would stay. I'm in the east. I got a chance to run it again. Yes, teams have gotten better, but so can we. That's me personally. Now, Kauai talked about his, you know, desire to play for the Lakers when he was at San Antonio. And so that has some value in regards to what he

wants to do. But for me, sometimes the grass is not always greener on the, on the other side. Plus, Toronto can pay me more. Okay. So, unless there's a sign and trade opportunity to go to another team. What if he goes to the Lakers, would it work? Like, I think they'd win, but like, you know how it is in basketball, when you're used to having the ball

in your hands, and like LeBron can say like, hey man, you know, eventually it's going to be your team and I'll be the point guard. Like, yeah, but that means LeBron sets everybody up. You know, he doesn't mind you taking the big shot, but he wants to pass you to take the big shot. Whereas that's not how, kind of what Kauai has evolved into.

Does that actually work together? You know, I'm not for sure because even though LeBron has gotten older, you think about the year he still had, you know, this year, some career highs in a lot of his categories, statistical categories, okay? And it's extremely difficult when you're a ball handler or a creator like Kauai is. Because one of the big questions, you know, we ask, and I ask myself, could Kauai put a team on his back? We didn't really see it in San Antonio because he didn't have to.

And he answered that question that he could. So now you're talking about taking that away to some degree. agree if you go to the Lakers because LeBron is effective with the ball in his hand at the end of the day. Okay. That's, you know, that's the difference. And I don't know, I'm not saying it couldn't work. The three would have to figure things out because Anthony Davis has to have a ball. Would you get the same Kauai Leonard that we saw in Toronto? I don't think we would. I think we'll see it in spurts. Yeah. I also kind of worry, Anthony Davis stands to lose the most, right? if he, because Anthony Davis runs the risk of becoming Chris Boss,

staying in the corner, will come to you and we need you, doesn't he? He, I think he's a little bit more dynamic. Oh, I think he's a lot more, I think he's a better player than Chris Bosch. Yes, he is. Keep in mind, Chris was a 2010 guy in Toronto. No question. I mean, getting buckets and getting numbers. Right, but he was also the best player in a bad team, whereas Anthony Davis,

and look, you cover the NBA for Turner, so you know way better than I do. But I operate on the, like, he's an MVP candidate. No, he is. Top five player in the game, which Boss was never really in. that realm. Yeah, he wasn't. And, you know, things change depending on what the system that Frank Vogel wants to run, I think is very important, too, on how and where Anthony Davis gets those touches.

Okay. How you spread the floor is going to be important. How you fill out the rest of your roster to be able to get perimeter shooting is going to be very important to Anthony Davis to give him the space that he needs to go to work. So all these things are still in the flux because what Kauai did by, you know, kind of delaying his decision is now you've taken the ability for the Lakers to build out the roster with shooters that were on the market earlier. They couldn't offer them contracts without knowing what they were going to do with that

max salary they had by waiting for Kauai. So it's still some pieces to the puzzles. We all know the Lakers still have to make. What do you make of some of this post-mortem stuff on Kevin Durant that I didn't love playing for Steve Kerr is one story that he and Draymond when they got into it. that was the straw that broke the camel's back. There's the, you know, it wasn't that he and Steph didn't get along,

but, you know, Steph's kind of the golden child there, plus he's married. There wasn't much of an off-the-court relationship. Like, now that he's gone, are these the seeds that has sprouted the tree that pushed him out? I think it was a combination of a lot of stuff, from what I'm hearing. Not that he didn't get along with his teammates.

Again, you've got to have flare-ups, okay, in regards to either coach or a player. That's going to happen when you're in the locker room. And plus, you know, understand that, when I was talking to Steve Kerr before, he said this has been the hardest year they've had just because of the expectations, just because of the drain, the mental drain

of getting back to a finals, getting through the regular season. So you put that into the bowl of stress that you have to deal with the high expectations, not just from Golden State or from Oakland, but from the NBA by itself. And then you have an individual who's still trying to prove that he's still the best player.

but you have all these shots being fired at them in regards to, well, you're on the best team, you have this. Right. Are you really? So I'm not surprised in regards to Kevin Durant leaving because the signs to me were already there if you just paid attention to it. You know, and it could be a combination of all those things you talked about. Does it work with him and Kyrie in Brooklyn?

I hope it does. I really do because, you know, we were talking on, speak for yourself a few days ago, and I talked about the value of those who being really great. friends. And I've heard they've been talking about this for a while. And then, you know, Marcellus and Jason was, I don't know Marcellus wasn't there, but Jason said, you know, you shouldn't do business with friends. I said, I get it. But it's been some guys that have been great friends that are great business partners. Okay. So it does work. And I think those two,

hopefully, you know, when Kevin Durant gets back and those young guys, you know, with the nets continue to improve, that they can have a lethal combination and they can get along. Now, it has to be a lot of growing up in growth in Kyrie. Correct. And that's, I think that to me is the key. Yeah. And I think KD has to grow up as well. And maybe this year helps him, you know, absorb some of the culture. You see the game differently. I do think it's funny when people say you shouldn't do business with friends, that people say you shouldn't do business with family. Right. On the other hand, you want to do business with people you trust and like,

all right, so you're going to do business with somebody you don't know at all? Exactly. You know, but sometimes knowing someone too intimately, it's held against you at time. Right. And I get it. Yes. But the respect. level, like I did business with friends and it worked out perfectly. I did business with perfect strangers that I trusted and it didn't. So it just depends on the individual and hopefully the culture within the net system with Kenny Atkinson and also Sean Marks, who I play with in Miami. That system molds these players, but more importantly, it holds them accountable.

That's the interesting part you point about the culture. And look, I've been crushing Kyrie a little bit because the culture, of Boston was really good. Yep. And then it was not good. The chemistry was not good this year. And I don't think he should have all the blame. I think Jason Tatum got gassed up by people in the media to tell him he was better than he was. Jaylon Brown. I think Jaylen Brown, I think

you know, take care of Rozier. You know, thinks he's the dude because he played pretty well in some home playoff games. But I do think that he's a big, on the other hand, just because you didn't fit into one culture doesn't mean if you're a bright guy. And we would all agree, Kyrie is a bright guy. You can't learn from

your own mistakes. You know? It's part of growth. Nobody's perfect. And Kyrie thought maybe that he learned something from his tenure in Cleveland that he could take to Boston. It was a little bit different, especially. Now, what happens if Kyrie doesn't get hurt and he plays?

Okay? Okay? When Terry Rozier kind of took off and Jason Tatum had it. What happens if Gordon Hayward doesn't break his leg in half the first two minutes of his career with itself? A lot of that fed into the culture of the locker. locker room. Okay. And Kyrie being the elder statesman probably caught a lot of that hearing. Okay, well, do we really need Kyrie? Okay. Is he really integral? Yeah, you need Kyrie. He's a

closure. But you got to look at all of those factors on why. And then to boot, this was a test, stress test for Brad Stevens. The first time he really had to deal with the ego part of the NBA and how to manage that, which is extremely difficult. It's probably the point that's made the least you just made the best way possible, which is, I consider Brad a friend and other guys in an organization. And I do think one of the things missing on that bench, you know, they just hired three assistants is a guy who has been a player who can't, you know, they used to have Walter McCarty, who's now the head coach at Evansville. Yeah. But a guy who has been through this, who can be a go-between between Brad, who is brilliant, okay? And just, he shows up to work to do work every day. And a guy who can,

you know, what he means is, what you need to do is somebody. who's been there, the Sam Cassell types. I think Jason Kidd can be integral for the, I think everybody thinks that Jason Kidd's just going to stab Frank Vogel in the back, which may actually happen, but while he's stabbing in the back, I think it's a big part of like he's been a

superstar and a head coach in the NBA twice over. Who better to relate what Frank Vogel wants and what LeBron wants to each other as kind of the go-between. Well, the challenge you always have with young players, and this is what you love is the barado, the eagle. You want to, you have to have eagle to be great, okay? Now, if it

gets out of hand. Now it hurts the locker room. But Brad Stevens came from Butler. So the guys, as you know, recruited were three or four star guys. They grew over four years. The ego was out the door. They had a little bit of ego, but he was able to manage those young men because they grew and they understood that they had to outperform, outplay, outwork because we weren't as talented. Okay? So we had to do things collectively as a team. You kind of had that that first year, you know, with Brad there. Okay? That same kind of attitude. But then once the eagles got involved. Brad couldn't navigate through that, pull back a little bit, demand certain things, because he was just learning himself, okay? So it was a learning year, I think, for all of that.

And it played into why I think Kyrie pushed back a lot. Now, that doesn't make it right, because you're the older guy. You should be able to navigate and get through that and walk these young guys and have them understand the importance of keeping it together. But it was a hodgepodge of a lot of things going on in Boston that caused, I think, Kyrie, not to be the leader he wanted to be. Let's circle back. I started by asking you where he should go. Where do you think Kauai Leonard will go?

I think he stays. I think he does. You know, it's interesting because I think the meeting with the Lakers is very important from the fact that you had to figure out what's going on upstairs, okay, with management. But he didn't meet with management. He made him with magic. I understand, but like, I don't know.

It's a weird dynamic. Here's my thing. it's a weird dynamic that you wait this long. I think guys know where they want to go. Yeah. They just got to be pushed over the edge a little bit. Sure. You know what I mean?

I mean, the clippers, you know what they're going to do. Toronto, what else are they going to sell you on, bro? You just won a championship. They've been in your ear the whole year about why it's important that you're coming back. The meeting with Magic or the phone call, getting the information, which is weird anyway, because Magic basically, you know, threw a lot of those under the guys under the bus in management.

I don't know if there was confidence in that perspective. about where they're at now, but more importantly, Doug, where they're going. Right. Because post-Lebron, you know, L.A. needs a superstar or two. We get it. But from a management perspective, an unfamiliarity with Frank Vogel, those questions would hinder a guy like Kauai's decision

on being comfortable for not just next year, but for the future. See, that's where I would be critical of LeBron. Like, look, if LeBron met with Kauai Leonard, and he wants it to work, He wants it to happen. Then he goes and picks up Frank Vogel at his hotel room and says, Rob Polink and you guys are good with me. It's the old Pee-We-Reece.

You guys remember the Pee-Wee-Ree-Reece story? So Jackie Robinson, they're playing in Cincinnati one day, and the fans are heckling him, and they're saying nasty things to him. And Pee-Wee-Ree-Reece walks over and he puts his arm around Jackie Robinson. He's with me. Right. And that ended that. And if LeBron would have simply done that.

And I don't know if he comes through, but if you, like, if you have any questions about how things are rolling, and LeBron James rolls up to your house or to your hotel room, and he's got Polinka with him, and he's got Frank. And they don't have to say a word,

but they're with me, I got it. I'm good. It's whatever thing LeBron's saying, they're all lockstep. And I think that's a mistake in how they're pitching this thing. Yeah, I mean, it's so important

because of the Bronn James, listen, no other athlete has been able to control the narrative like LeBron in sports. Okay, he's changed the way free agency is. changed the way we do training camps. He changed the way back-to-back games, spreading out the season. I mean, all of this. And we know that he has a level

of control within the organization. If he comes to Kauai and says, listen, bro, I know Frank is new, but don't worry about it. We got AD this, the management, we're going to work that out. I have full confidence. That's a whole different pitch. You don't even need management after that point. You don't think you need him there?

No, I'm talking about in regards to going to get a pitch from management. I understand. You know, I think if LeBron does that, that's a whole different animal. Because one thing for certain, you may not agree with everything LeBron has done, but you trust what he's talking about because he's been there. You know, whether it's been in Miami, he has some issues there, but management was great. He was able to control the narrative in Cleveland, okay?

And with the Lakers, you know, think about it. They need to win. So when LeBron gives you his approval in regards to where they're going, you know, that's a huge statement. It is. Jim Jackson, of course, long-time NBA stud, two-time Mr. Basketball and State of Ohio. Back in the day. Back in the day. All-American, Mr. All-American at Ohio State. Thanks so much for stop. You got it, brother.

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