The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Best of The Herd: 07/16/2019

Episode Date: July 16, 2019

The Cowboys should trade Ezekiel Elliott because he already wants a new contract and is there only young player that is trouble off the field. Aaron Rodgers is no longer a player that a GM would want to start a franchise with because he's getting old and is difficult to work with. Plus, TJ Houshmandzadeh tells Colin why players care so much about their Madden rankings and why Dak is more important to the Cowboys than Zeke. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Rhett, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Conky, his best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 Podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of, Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines

ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to the Best of Heard Podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday. From 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports. Radio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeartRadio app by searching

herd. This is the best of the herd with Colin Cowherd on Fox Sports Radio. Ah, here we go on a Tuesday. We're packed. This is the herd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening. We're on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1, tons of football today. Joy Taylor is joining me. Today's show I have so much energy for it, not because I have a big glass.

a Red Bull. Oh. Well, you're not buying coffee from coffee shops anymore. We know that. Nope. But Red Bull is still. I can go get Red Bull anywhere. Yesterday, I decided no more coffee shops. I'm tired of getting hosed.

So I can officially feel this morning. We're kind of segueing into football. Yeah. And I want to start the show with this. Enjoy, I'm going to say something. And people are going to think I'm nuts. And then I'm going to say, take a deep breath and just listen. This isn't politics.

You're not voting on this issue where people are intractable. This is sports where we change our mind all the time. Player gets hurt. Coach gets fired. This morning, Ezekiel Elliott, best running back in the NFL, has privately said he's planning a training camp holdout. He's got two years left on his contract. Two years left.

And he's putting you through this nonsense. Forget the fact that every offseason there's a new judicial issue. Trade him. I would trade Zeke. Take a deep breath. Take a deep breath. This is not the NBA. We're after the eighth draft pick, you're out of players.

This year in the NBA, by the fourth pick, it's a project. It's a 18-year-old project. This is the NFL. Half the league is undrafted. There's football talent everywhere. Belichick every other year drafts an SEC running back. Nobody knows. He ends up being great.

Trade Zeke. I'm not letting this guy two years. years out we're talking about this? Number one, there's a growing number of analytics in the NFL and GMs that believe you do not give a running back after three or four years in this league a big contract. High school carries, college carries, NFL carries. Once you get into that 2000 carry area, Zeeks numbers, touchdowns per game, dropping dramatically, yards rushing per game coming down let him go trade him you can get a haul for him his value will

never be higher today he is seen as the number one running back in the NFL this is his greatest value from this point forward more dings more judicial issues not great judgment his value goes down pigs get fed hogs get slaughtered you could get a haul for him by the way here's three teams that moved off running backs. You told me they couldn't do it. Pittsburgh Steelers, excuse me, Minnesota Vikings, Adrian Peterson. Can't get rid of him. Can't. Best running back for 10 years. Dave never missed the playoffs since he left. Minnesota's a great franchise. They never didn't miss. By the way, the only playoff game they won with Adrian Peterson, Brett Farber's the quarterback. You told me they couldn't trade Adrian Peterson. Vikings been fine without him. DeMarco Murray Cowboys.

Oh, by God, leads the NFL in right. Two division, three titles without DeMarcoe. Levian Bell. You weren't winning Super Bowls with him, and you were number four in the NFL in offense without him. And you paid James Connor nothing. This is not a running back league. It's a quarterback league. It's increasingly a wide receiver league because of rule changes.

It's a left tackle league. It's an edge rusher league. It's a have mobile linebackers. It's have a lockdown corner. By the way, the Cowboys have all of those. This organization is not bereft of talent. In fact, over the weekend, I read a little. website, an analytic website that said

Dallas had more good young players than anybody in the NFL. I think Philadelphia was second. And they're all mature. Amari Cooper, great, talented young mature. Dak, really good, talented mature. Vanderech, Jalen Smith, the linebacker,

Byron Jones, the corner, Demarcus Lawrence. You got to pay all these guys and they're all mature. The one young guy they have that's not is Zeke. I'm not time. Some people you date, some people you marry. I'm not time myself long term to Zeke. Two years out, he's complaining about a contract. Pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered, move off him. By the way, here's a little secret. If you move off him,

and then Dak, you can make a trade right now, and Dak has to play without him, oh, maybe Dak can't demand $35 million a year if his numbers come down a little. Because Dak is your future, right? You've got to have a quarterback, much easier to find a running back than a quarterback. Look around the NFL last five years. How many great second round? round, third round, fourth round, fifth round running backs have come into this league and not only been good, been good soon. The Rams signed Todd Gurley to a huge deal. They regret it today.

Todd Gurley got hurt. They found C.J. Anderson still made it to the Super Bowl with C.J. Anderson. You told me Demarco Murray couldn't be traded. Lavian Bell couldn't be moved. You told me Adrian Peterson was a must have. By the way, who are the two franchises in the NFL favored to get to the Super Bowl? Patriots and Eagles both are running back by committee. Trade him.

I'm not going to be held hostage by this nonsense. His rushing yards per game coming down. His touchdowns per game, dramatically coming down. He had 592 carries in college. He had 870 carries in the NFL. He's at 1,500 running back carries, not counting high school. There's a rule in the NFL. What would Belichick do?

Trade him for a haul. By the way, Belichick would trade him, and Jimmy Johnson did trade Herschel Walker. And let's go back to the Jimmy Johnson trade. A, that was a culture that nobody made trades. Nobody made trades. Secondly, Herschel Walker had gone for 1,500 rushing yards and 500 passing yards. And Jimmy traded him.

By the way, it was the only good cowboy player. So it's not like Jimmy had a bunch of guy. It was it. And Jimmy's like, I'll trade my only good player. Cowboys now have like seven great young players and one of the top three offensive lines. It was also back then a running back league way more than now. where it's a wide receiver quarterback offensive line league. Stop living in fear.

I'm not dealing with this nonsense. Every offseason, it's another judicial issue. Two years out, you're threatening to hold out of camp. I'm done. Bad judgment. I'm out. I'm done. I'm not going to be held hostage by it.

Everybody in this league tells me, you got to sign this. You got to say, no, no, no. In the NBA, you got to get Kauai Leonard. Okay, yes. In the NBA, you got to get Anthony Davis if you're the Lakers. In the NBA, there's about six you got to halves. Golden State, you got to keep Steph and Clay. There's some got to halves.

Outside of a handful of quarterbacks in the NFL, there's not a lot of got to halves. J.J. Watt was the best defensive player in this league for about five years. His production never equaled wins. OBJ next to Randy Moss, maybe the most talented receiver in NFL history. His six biggest games are one in five. Here's what you got to have in the NFL. You got to have the confidence. have the confidence in your coaching staff and the confidence in your system that you don't

got to have anybody except a very good quarterback, which, by the way, that's just rules. That's just the way the rules are. The rules are now, if you have a good quarterback, he completes 67% and you win a bunch of games. If you have a battle, when you don't make the playoffs. New England, Philadelphia, never held hostage by an individual running back, but they pay Carson Wenton, Tom Brady, a bunch of money. Okay, this is nonsense. again, the NBA's got some got-a-havs.

NFL, not many. And Zieg is not a got-a-half. And again, I'll say this. Jimmy Johnson did this in Dallas when it was more of a running-back league, when he didn't have anybody else, and it got a lot of pushback, and you all said he was crazy. And it is the singular reason the Cowboys' Dynasty was created. I could give you a team to call.

Call the Houston Texans. Call the Houston Texans. say you give us Lamar Miller and a couple of first round picks, you have Zeke. Zeke's carries, yards per carry will go down at least a yard per game. Watch. Houston Texans need a running back. Cowboys bring in Lamar Miller. You know, he's a guy that averages three yards of carry behind the cowboy O line.

He'll be 3.8 to 4.1. Zeke averages 4.5 a carry. Watch his go down to 3.5. There's no running back in this league that can do it without help. You can't run in a box with no players. The cowboy offensive line is one of the reasons Zika is getting these numbers. Now, Zika is great, and I'm not denying it, but his trade value will never be higher than this morning. You really think sign them to a four-year deal?

There'll be no more judicial issues, no nonsense, no bad judgment. You think in four years it'll be better than today? I mean, if you want to sign them, you better front-load the contract because these running backs hit a cliff. After about that six-year carrying the ball, especially after they were big carry guys in college for a couple of years. years. Pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered. Go ahead. Sign him. But you got a bunch of great young players. They're all mature. You need all of them. You got one great corner. He's young and talented and mature. You better sign him. You have a pass rusher. Demarch or Lawrence. You signed him. You got two great linebackers. I'd sign both. You watch the NFL right now. You

need speed at linebacker. You have the best linebacker. I want to sign both. I got to re-sign one or two of those offensive linemen. I want to keep Amari Cooper. I'm not giving up Dak. Well, you're going to feed everybody? And the little secret on this, if you let Zeke go, Dak plays without Zeke, Dax numbers compress, and I may not have to pay him 35 million. I may get down to 27. It sounds crazy.

It sounds nuts. I'm going to take a deep breath and just stewing my brilliance. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations. with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person

while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm CJ Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds.

Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter. what? He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows, without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective

on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when

IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick.

Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. like being an internet famous referee.

We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker.

Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Organizations do it all the time. It's nice to have you back, and they heard they say one thing, but they're doing another. Remember the New York Giants? We did not sign Odell Beckham to trade Odell Beckham. Why did guys like Jay Glazer keep going on the air and saying they're going to trade him? Don't believe Gettelman. The Houston Rockets. Chris Paul and James Hardin get along great. These rumors are outrageous. And then they traded him because they didn't get along. Folks, what an organization is selling the masses sometimes is true, and a lot of times it's not. It's my job, not your responsibility, to figure out when there's a bunch of BS. I've been saying for the last two to three years, everybody in Oklahoma City with half a brain knew that Westbrook can't be your number one guy. You can't build around him. You've got to get out of that contract.

Well, we find out now Oklahoma City wanted to get out of that contract. According to Kevin O'Connor at the ringer, very well-sourced, smart guy, that Sam Presti, the GM of Oklahoma City would not admit it, but he said a rival executive, Sam's way too smart to not know the team had reached its ceiling with Westbrook. The second point is, Kauai's recruitment gave OKC and out because the minute Paula George said, I want to go, you could trade Westbrook then without all the backlash. Oklahoma City's a small town. They'd lost Hardin.

They lost Durant. It is very difficult for the Memphis's. You know, you see this a lot of times in all sports, the small market, they get their star. I mean, you can't criticize Cam Newton and Charlotte. But you can go to New York and L.A. and Chicago and Dallas and Dick Prescott gets ripped in Dallas. They've got a hockey team. They've got an NBA team. They've got a baseball team.

They've got major university. It's a big, broad, sophisticated Dallas sports market. You can rip a star. You can't rip Cam Newton despite his inconsistent. in Charlotte. And OKC is small, and they put their arms around Westbrook, and they lost Katie and Hardin. It was like, don't take our guy. Everybody knew inside the building, and I'll give you the reason why. NBA fires coaches nonstop. I mean, good God. Duane Casey wins coach of the year in Toronto. He got the trophy next door at Starbucks as he found out he got fired. They fire everybody.

Yet Billy Donovan, OKC, can't win games in the first round with the highest payroll or second highest payroll in the league. And there's never been a rumor. You can't find a story. Billy Donovan's never in trouble. How is that possible? How is Billy Donovan exempt from this vicious NBA coaching cycle where competent people get run because of bad owners and pressure? Billy Donovan can't win a first round series. hell he can struggle to win a first round game.

There was never a rumor with the second highest payroll. Because the GM, the owner, the coach, they all knew. Westbrook's a talent. We've got to move off this contract. If he's our number one guy, now maybe he can be your number two in Houston, but you can't win with your number one guy is Westbrook. And he's difficult and he's brutal with the press and he's rigid and he won't change. Billy Donovan never, ever, ever has been in trouble

and he can't win games in the first round with the second highest payroll. That's telling you that the owner and the GM, they're all in on it. They all knew. And this gave them the out to move. And by the way, and I've said this before, is I get small markets. You know, they couldn't criticize Westbrook because it's harder for small markets. I read a story this morning. Westbrook had so much power in the organization.

They gave it to him that he was literally dictating terms on media policy. Oklahoma City is the only team that wouldn't allow pregame interviews. Westbrook didn't like him. Why? I mean, Miami didn't allow D. Wade to do that, and D. Wade's got titles. D. Wade's a better player than Westbrook and his prime. Why? Because it's Miami. A lot of people want to play in Miami. Aquawater, Beach, no state tax, Pat Riley. So Miami's never going to hand the franchise to even D. Wade, who next to Dan Marino, or maybe more than Dan Marino is the biggest star in any one city of America. Seriously. Like, Dan Marino and D. Wade owned Miami in sports. They didn't hand the franchise to D. Wade. He wasn't dictating policy. But Westbrook was dictating policy because Oklahoma City knows we don't get stars. Just like LeBron and Cleveland.

You can set the media policy. I mean, literally, Westbrook would often dictate, according to a story I read this morning, when they flew in and out of towns. Like, we're not going to stay the night here and practice here. We're going to go somewhere else. What? That's what LeBron did in Cleveland. Why?

Because it's Cleveland. Westbrook did it in Oklahoma City. Why? Because it's Oklahoma City. The Lakers love LeBron. They're not going to let them totally dictate the franchise. I mean, the Yankees love their star players. It's the Yankees.

The Cowboys love their star players. It's the Cowboys. It's the Steelers. It's the Packers. You can't dominate the team. You can't dominate the franchise. Westbrook was allowed to do it, but they all knew the con inside of the game, which was he can't win with him.

You can't win in the playoffs. He's exhausted by the time the playoffs come. Analytically, he doesn't work in the NBA today long term, and he's hard to play with it times. Houston, maybe it works. Maybe it doesn't. But it's not his city now. It's not his franchise.

It's James Hardin's franchise. And James Hardin's better than Westbrook. But this story with Presti is, it's really funny, where they all knew the game. But what you're sold as the public is many times the truth, but sometimes it's not. Gettleman wanted out of OBJ for two years. They wanted out of that for two years.

Chris Paul and Hardin, I know you think it's all fake news. They didn't get along. That's why they moved them. They didn't get along. And by the way, Westbrook, they knew. What they told you, they knew. And we're going to blast them publicly, but they knew. What's going on, everybody, John Middlecop, three and out podcast.

Brought to you by my main man, Colin Coward, and his podcast network. If you don't know me, I used to work in the NFL. I've now been in the media for five or six years. Coming up this week, I talk about the NFL's recent success, financially, the franchise tag. And I talk about every young quarterback in the league, their ceiling and their floor. Again, John Middilcoff, three and out podcast, listen to wherever you listen to your podcast. I see these Madden 20 quarterback ratings. They came out yesterday.

I don't play Madden, but have friends who have. And Aaron Rogers, they did the 20 quarterback ratings. And Aaron Rogers was, you know, like he wasn't number one or number two, and everybody freaked out. Aaron Rogers was 13th in passer rating last year and 13th in touchdown passes. And he's 35 in brittle. Like, what, with a very good offensive line, he was 13th in pass rating, 13th in touchdown passes, and he's hard to coach and increasingly brittle. Can we move off the Aaron Roder?

Rogers is always getting hosed thing. Let's move off that. I just don't buy that. So here's the Madden NFL 20. Mahomes 97, Brady 96, Philip 94, Breeze 92, Luck 92, Wilson 91, Aaron Rogers, 90 and everybody's freaking out. That's about where he's at right now. He's an old 35. He's a stubborn 35. He's an increasingly brittle 35. He's already said publicly, I mean, this is a guy that struggles with some players, with some coaches, with some coaches, with some family members. This is where Aaron's at. I was telling the staff this morning. You're the GM. I'm not looking for you fanboys. You're the general manager. You make three and a half million dollars a year, which you'll never make, but let's pretend. So it's three and a half million

dollars. You're the GM of a franchise. And you have to name the quarterbacks you're going to build around. And you're going to consider four things. What's their age? What's their injury history? What's their talent? And do they have the appropriate leadership qualities? That's why Baker wouldn't be on the top of my list, Baker Mayfield. So age, injury, talent, leadership. Number one is Mahomes. Number two to me is Russell Wilson. Number three to me is Andrew Luck.

I am worried about his injury, but I do think he got over it last year. I don't even have a fourth. Now, I love Carson Wentz, but I got to see him make it through a season. If you were a GM today and you're building, you're building your franchise. And you've got to consider age, talent, leadership, and injury. Aaron Rogers is not one of those three. He's 35 years old. He can't stay healthy.

Mahomes is not rigid. Russell Wilson's not stubborn. Andrew Luck is totally coachable. Those are my three guys. Then you get into a group of old guys who can win now, Ben, Breeze, Brady, Philip, Aaron, or young guys you cross your fingers on. Deshawn Watson, will he keep growing?

I like Sam Darnold more than Baker because I like the leadership qualities. But if you're tied, it's passed for Aaron. That doesn't mean Aaron can't win another Super Bowl. But let's put this in some context. Aaron Rogers, the last time he won a Super Bowl, Carson Palmer was a Cincinnati bingle. Peyton Manning was a colt. Brett Farrb was playing.

That's been a long, long time. And much like Brett Farr, he's aging like Brett Fav. Difficult to coach, kind of doing it his way. super talented, great arm, you know, it's not easy for everybody to get along with. If you started your franchise today and you had all the considerations, Mahomes, Russell, and Andrew Luck are my guys. And Luck, I paused because of the injuries,

but it did look like last year to me. And he also, he plays in a dome. Frank Reich is now the coach. They're getting rid of the ball to their tight ends quickly. He's got a running game. Luck has the best offensive line, young, offensive line in the game. So I'll roll the dice on luck because I think they're offensive line,

their general manager, their running game, and their tight ends. He gets rid of the – he didn't get hit nearly as much last year. I think I'd do Carson Wentz four, but he likes to run around. And he likes to have lived like Aaron Rogers. And I've got to see Carson Wentz get through a season. But we've got this constant Aaron Rogers is getting hosed. No, he's not. If you're building a – if you're building a franchise today,

13th and passer touchdowns, 13th in passer rating, tougher to coach. This is what it is. This is the real NFL. And I'm, you're anti, Colin,

you're anti-Aren Rogers. You think I'm anti-Patrick Mahomes. 90% of you think I'm anti-Patrick Mahomes. He'd be the number one guy in the league for me. You think I don't like Patrick Mahomes. If I had to do it today, I'd take Patrick. He's,

I don't got any injuries. I think he's incredibly coachable. I think he's an absurd talent. And I think he's kind of, He's got leadership qualities. He's got a net quality. And he's not immature to me. He's an adult.

He's just a young kid. You've got to allow kids to be kids. Now, Zeke's a kid, but gets me in trouble. Baker's a kid, but that's stuff I hate. Patrick's a kid. Sometimes a little fun, a little flighty. But I like him. But you're not putting Aaron in the top three.

He's in the group of old guys who can win now, but I'm not building my future around him. Tom Brady's been hurt once. Aaron's hurt every other year. I'm building a few. The Madden games right on target. That's about where he is. He's a slight upgrade of Matt Ryan when you consider everything.

Matt Ryan doesn't get hurt. Aaron does. Matt Ryan's easier to coach than Aaron. Matt Ryan can play within a system. I don't think this is, and I think, you know, I look at that Madden 20. Mahomes, Brady, Rivers, Breeze, Luck, Russell, Rogers, Matt, Ben. I think they got Cam a little high. I think they got Wentz a little low.

It's mostly accurate. Want more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHard Radio app. Search Hurd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying,

and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source. athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12. the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist,

Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. and we don't know when we've done enough.

Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free. iHeartRadio app search learn the hard way and listen now what's up fam this isaiah thomas isaiah thomas and i'm cj toledano and our podcast point game is about defying the odds like

lebron heading into the playoffs without lucca and austin reed and finding ways to win no matter what he's the smartest player to ever play the game his IQ is at a level that we've never seen before and he knows without lucca and austin reese i got to manipulate the game we get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs i think jokers going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too.

Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the bar like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah. You figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys?

This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Time out. Look. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

Now, I've always believed this, that because I'm from the Pacific Northwest, I try to not be a homer. Because I think people tend to think, oh, you're a homer. I live in Los Angeles now, and I get, ooh, you're a homer. Well, no, Vegas has the Lakers and the Clippers as the top two NBA teams. That's not my opinion. And the Rams did get to the Super Bowl, although all year I was very critical of the Rams.

So I don't think I'm a homer. I think the Houston Astros will win the National League, not the Dodgers. I think they have more good players. And they have more experience. Dodgers are young and talented. So I try not to be an L.A. Homer. It's just right now, the Dodgers are good, the Clippers are good, the Lakers are good. You know, the L.A. teams, L.

I have season tickets to. Everybody's, a lot of teams are winning in Los Angeles. And in Seattle, the Seahawks have been great, but I try not to be a homer. In fact, I probably go overboard in not embracing the team and the areas I'm from because I just, I always push back on that. I always try to give the East Coast and the Midwest teams a little bit more love. Just like I said a couple of minutes ago, if I had to build an NFL franchise, I'd take my homes and Andrew Luck to my three Midwest guys. People would disagree, but I do feel like I push back on the Seattle Homer thing sometimes. But Russell Wilson is the exception because I grew up a Seattle Seahawk fan.

and we were mostly fun and irrelevant my entire life. And then Pete Carroll came, and we were still mostly fun and irrelevant, 7-9, 7-9, and then Russell Wilson arrived and everything changed. And suddenly Pete Carroll's the best coach ever, and Marshaun Lynch is the best running back ever, and Richard Sherman's the best player ever. And now, no, Russell Wilson arrived. And by the way, Russell Wilson was there last year, and a lot of the other players have all left. Marshawn Lynch has laughed and Richard Sherman laugh and all the players you camp chancellor laugh everybody laughed oh Seattle had a winning record still oh okay it's like it's like Steph Curry it's like Steph Curry

doesn't get any respect from players because this is the way it works in pro sports cool is a commodity of course not in real life smart is grown up is dependable is but in sports among players Westbrook's more popular than Steph Curry. Steph Curry's not cool. Steph Curry's quiet and he's religious and he's a family guy. And he wears like pharmaceutical shoes. And Russell Wilson's religious and quiet and not loud and not.

And so Steph Curry and Russell Wilson, they're also a little smaller, distinct and unique. They don't get respect from players. So yesterday is a prime example. Golden Tate, who entered the league with the Seahawks, then he went to the Lions and now he's a New York giant. He was Philadelphia for an hour. So he's bounced around a little bit. Total shot at Russell Wilson,

saying his former Lions quarterback is way better. To me, as of now, where I am today, I think Stafford has been the best quarterback I play with. Over his career, if you put him in another organization, maybe things are different. I don't know, because I play with some guys over my years that I've won't playoff games with that I don't think are as good. That's funny.

That would be Russell Wilson. If you put Matt Stafford in a different organization, no, that's not the way it works, Golden. That's not a golden take. This is not a debate. It's a hill you're going to die on alone. Okay? Let me tell you how it works.

When you're great, you make the organization. Carson Palmer made the Bengals get to the playoffs. Andy Dalton can't. Same organization. Seattle had all sorts of quarterbacks who could play. Russell Wilson won a Super Bowl. This idea, well, it's the line. By the way, the Packers were dog meat before Brett Farve got there.

They were 25 years of a nothing burger. And Brett Farv got there and made the organization. What were the cults before Peyton Manning? Don't give me this whole, well, if you put Stafford over, what were the Seahawks before Russell Wilson? A bunch of nothing. I was there. This is not a debate who's better.

It's a shot at Russell Wilson. Let's look at some numbers. You know data and stuff. Passer rating, not clobling. close Wilson. Losing season, Stafford 6, Russell never had one. Touchdown interceptions. Stafford's got twice the interceptions, twice the losses. And that's Russell being in a division where teams get to the Super Bowl in his division. San Francisco got to a Super Bowl in his division. Arizona got to the NFC championship in his division. The Rams got to a Super Bowl in his

division. That's not an easy division. So this is not a debate. And the idea that if you put, and I like Stafford, I think he's crazy talented. But if you put Stafford in a better organization, No, no, no, no, no, no. What were the Packers for 25 years before Brett Farrve got there? What were the Seahawks before Russell Wilson got there? They made the organization. What were the Colts before Peyton Manning? By the way, Denver had John Elway.

Denver lost John Elway. They were only, I mean, they haven't been special mostly since he left, except for the year they got Peyton Manning. Okay. So don't tell me, if you put Matt in a different situation, no, no, no. Matt has not been good enough to this point to elevate the organization, which is what the transformative guys do. This idea, Seattle is just a great organization, and Russell Wilson is just a little bit of the stop. This is not a debate.

This is playoff wins. Russell Wilson 8, Stafford, none. Okay, not a debate. All right. And by the way, not picking on Matt Stafford because Golden Tate brought this up. Matt Stafford would probably tell you if he asked him, yeah, Russell has his better career. I think Matt Stafford would tell you that. So I'm not going to pick on the writer on this story.

NFL.com. They list the best coaches in the NFL. Now, there's a bunch of new coaches, like six, seven new coaches. They don't rank any of those. So they only rank 26 coaches. These are guys who coached last year in the league. They're not counting the new guys. Right, guys who have never been a head coach in the NFL.

That's the guys they're not counting. So they list the 26 coaches in all. order in the NFL. And most of the stuff at the top, we all know who it is. Belichick, Sean Peyton, Andy Reid, Pete Carroll, Sean McVeigh, Harbaugh, Anthony Lynn, Tomlin. You know, I'm not going to, you know, that's fine to have Andy Reid number two behind Belichick. Pete Carroll, maybe third or fourth, but that's fine. I think they have a couple guys too high, too low. Now, I will say this, they have John Gruden at 15th. That's being very generous. They've got Doug Marone for the Jaguars at 18th.

That is beyond generous. He's an offensive coach, and the offense is always unwatchable. They've also got Bruce Ariens at 16. Nice guy, but he stopped working in Arizona and used to brag. He was home by 5.30 to have a cocktail with his wife. That's not the 15th, 16th best coach in the NFL. But here's why I stopped taking calls in sports radio. One of the reasons.

Nobody was teaching me anything. Tell me something I don't know. Give me an idea I've never thought of. Feed nutrients to my audience. Caller stopped doing that. They just repeated stuff I'd said. or told me stuff I could already see on television, and my job is to find stuff nobody's talking about.

But it's not really a fan's responsibility. It's mostly a media's job to do that. That's our job, 24-7, we're in media. So when the NFL.com comes out and puts Kyle Shanahan at 23rd, what do you do it? So let me tell you NFL.com writer, Shanahan has a doppelganger in this league. It's called Belichick.

Belichick was a great coordinator. everywhere he went. Everywhere he went, teams got better. Went to Cleveland, won some games, but couldn't win consistently because he couldn't get the great quarterback. If I'd have told you when Belichick was in Cleveland, this is the next great head coach in the league. You'd have scoffed at it.

But if you'd done any homework with Belichick, you'd have known. He actually did an incredible job in Cleveland for what he had, and he was the best coordinator in the league. And every time he interviewed, that's why he got a job after Cleveland. Cleveland so quickly. That's why I had multiple jobs. He turned down the Jets job. Kyle Shanahan has an incredible career as a coordinator. Everywhere he's gone, he made Matt Schaubb a pro bowler. Everywhere he's got. He made Matt Ryan an MVP. Then he leaves the teams aren't the same. The quarterbacks aren't the same. Anybody can tell me Sean Payton's good.

Tell me something we haven't seen yet. I'm going to give you some data. And this is my job to do this on Kyle Shanahan. So since he's been in San Francisco, Here's the quarterback attempts. CJ Bethard's thrown 400 balls. Nick Mullins, 275, Brian Hoyer 205, Jimmy G, only 267. Those are the quarterbacks he's dealt with. The team health has been 29 and 23rd,

meaning his teams can't stay healthy. The schedule, the seventh toughest, and the 15th toughest. In a division with Seattle and the Rams, both really good. Kyle Shanahan, when he has had Jimmy Garoppolo, a legitimate franchise quarterback is six and two. That's six and two as he's rebuilt with a tougher than average schedule, with a team that can't stay healthy and a bad defense, which you can't blame him for that because he's not drafting the players.

They're secondaries atrocious. So if you look at him when he's actually had a quarterback that's considered a franchise quarterback, 400 yards a game, 93 pass a rating, they win by over a field goal, 27 points a game, 6 and 2. This is Belichick before he got a franchise quarterback. I know Andy Reid can coach. I know Sean Payton can coach.

I know Pete Carroll can coach. I know Bill Belichick's great. Anybody can say that. Find me stuff because Shanahan, if you do a little digging to put him 23rd in the league is absurd. My contention in two years, you'll put him in the top six. And I've said this before. McVeigh's got the high cheekbones. and is way better with the media.

So we all love Sean McVey, and I like him too. I think Shanahan is a better coach. Not by a ton, because I think McVeigh is great. But McVeigh is very friendly with the media, very handsome, ton of energy. It's the Los Angeles market. And McVeigh's good. McVeigh's really, really good.

But you watch that Super Bowl. That was a coaching clinic. The best Rams coach was Wade Phillips, not Sean McVeigh. McVeigh was the third best coach in that football game. Shanahan is a great coach. But you have to dig a little. Teams not healthy. Schedule's brutal.

Doesn't have a quarterback. Rebuilding. How bad was this team when he took him over? How bad were the Niners? Just wait. Just wait. Six and two with Jimmy G. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific.

On Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. DJ Hushman Zada played 11 years in the NFL, Seahawks, Ravens, Bengals, Raiders. Pro Boulder. And by the way, not only are his daughter's college athletes, but you're a bit of a coach yourself. You should tell the audience you do some coaching. A little bit.

I try to help young receivers get better. That's what I'll say. And you do. A lot of the elite California, Southern California-wide receivers work with T.J. And they are, you were a great route runner, incredibly coachable, good hand, smart dude, so you're a very good coach.

So anybody out there that's got a son that runs a 4-3, T.J. Hushmanzada. We were talking about a couple of different things. I want to start with something I haven't talked about in about an hour. I try not to be a homework because I'm from Seattle, but I believe great quarterbacks. Carson Palmer's one of these. Cincinnati was a laughing stock. Carson overcame all their issues and made him a playoff team because Carson was great. Seattle was irrelevant in my entire childhood. Russell Wilson gets there and changes them. Matt Stafford's got the talent but has never been able to take them on his shoulders. I'm not I'm not disputing. dysfunction within the organization. Cincinnati had a lot and Carson made him a playoff team and Seattle had a lot and Russell made him a playoff team. And by the way, Atlanta had a lot and Matt Ryan's helped him be a playoff team.

With my knock on Stafford, yesterday Golden Tate said Stafford's better than Russell Wilson. I'll let you hear the sound on this and then T.J. React, go ahead. To me, as of now, where I am today, I think Stafford's been the best quarterback I play with

over his career. If you put and another organization, maybe things are different. I don't know because I play with some guys over my years that I've won't playoff games with that I don't think are as good. Just a shot at Russell Wilson. What do you make a step? What do you make of that comment? Well, there could be some history between Golden Tate and Russell Wilson.

I think there is. That's almost a fact. There's some type of history, some bitterness that they have with each other. But I will say this, for the last couple weeks, I've been out working with my guys, and Stafford has been there. Stafford throws the ball, man, very, very, very well. That's never been the issue, though. He's very accurate.

So if you're just talking about a thrower of the football, Golden Tate has a point. Yes. If you're talking overall, that's when you say, come on, Tate, you hating, brough. Because that's what it is. You can't just say Stafford is better than Russell Wilson just off of Russell Wilson's accomplishments. But just to throw over the football, when we're out there throwing,

Stafford throws a pretty ball. It's accurate. It's on time. You're not slowing down. I mean, everything is just perfect. Mel Kuyper said years ago that, and Stafford's a great guy. He's a great guy, great family.

He said that Stafford was so good out of, I think, South Lake High School in Texas, that people would have drafted him out of high school and just sat him for two years. He was that kind of armed talent. Like he literally, remember Georgia? He started as a freshman. So true.

I seen Stafford when he was on his way to Georgia. He was coming out of high school. Nike had flew me out to Beaverton. And I seen Matthew Stafford. And I told him before he went to college, you're going to be the first pick in three years. And we talked about that last week. Yeah. And he's a great thrower of the football.

He is. But this is what I always say about Aaron Rogers. Quarterback is beyond that. It's leadership. It's, I mean, Tom Brady, every other. season, learns new music so he relates to his teammates. You know, like, I mean, there's a lot that goes into memorization of playbook, audible at the line, total commitment physically, kale ice cream.

I mean, there's, that's what makes Brady great, not his arm strength and his mobility. So I'm with you, like, I think Russell Wilson has something. Russell Wilson, Steph Curry. He's not cool. Religious, quiet, family, you know, players are kind of like roll their eyes at Steph. They roll their eyes at Russell. Russell doesn't have kind of credibility among players. But there are things called instincts.

Like you just do stuff, your body does stuff. Russell's instinctually, I've never quite seen anything like him. See, the thing in sports is this. I mean, from any sport, you go basketball, LeBron, James, Coiland, whoever it is in football. Why did you do that? I don't know. My instinct told me to do it. And that's what makes players better than others is.

instinctually they do things that aren't taught. They just do them. And you're like, why do he do that? That's why he's a great player because his instincts are better than yours. And he has that. Some guys never get it. Being a leader thing, some guys are just, Russell Wilson is a natural leader. He just has that in them.

Whereas guys like maybe Stafford, you have to learn. That takes a little time. But you look at Russell. He's had one head coach his entire career. Matthew Stafford has had three. He's had more turnover. Things are a little different. And you would say the three coaches

Stafford has had, they don't compare to Pete Curl. And so Russell Wilson has had more stability and more leadership at the top than Stafford has had as well. I want to move over to the Madden ratings came out and they rate quarterbacks. First of all, to players.

Yeah, yeah. It matters. I remember one time I got raiding, I thought I was low. And I said something in the interview and they changed. it matters. I used to play Maddeno all the time. We all players do. I haven't played Madden in so long, but yeah, it does matter. It's like, you're really

disrespect. Because you look at the rankings and you say, oh, he's not better than me, really? And so. By the way, they have Carson Wetz at 82 and Kirk Cousins at 81. See, the thing is, oh, it's a what have you done for me Lee Carson Wins has been hurt. And so it's what have you done for me lately? Aaron Rogers, look where he's at. What have you done for me lately? You're not taking all those quarterbacks in front of Aaron Rogers. At least I'm not if I'm a receiver. If you were a GM today, so you're building for five to seven years,

would you take 35-year-old Aaron Rogers, who's increasingly brittle? Would you take him over Mahomes? Andrew Luck? I wouldn't. No, not those two guys because he's 35. They have more of a silly. Put up the three guys. I said this morning, if you told me I was GM, here's what I, and I'm building my franchise,

so I have to consider four things at quarterback. Age, talent. injury history and leadership. These are the first three guys I take. Now, luck, injury worries me, but here's the thing. I know going forward, TJ, they have the best young offensive line and the best tight end group in the NFL, and Frank Wright teaches get rid of the ball fast. So luck didn't get hit last year.

So I feel safe next five years with Andrew. Look, I would take Mahomes one, Russell two, and Luck three. I would put a question mark on Andrew Luck just because of his injuries. but if everybody's healthy, then you're right. Looking at that list, I think they kind of hate it on Ben as well. I think Ben should be higher on the Madden Rainies as well. I think a lot is underrated, man. Well, he's old.

He has little issues with the leadership, but you talk about him playing on the field. He's underrated. He's underrated. What do they have him here? They have him in 85. They have him lower than Matt Ryan. That feels underrated to me. Big Ben is.

he's better than that. Yeah, he is. By the way, sounds crazy. Sometimes I say stuff sounds crazy. But the NFL is not the NBA. In the NBA, there's just certain guys you got to keep. You just do stuff nobody. You can't get rid of Clay Thompson. Six, five, shoots threes, you got to sign him. Take away a handful of quarterbacks. The NFL's always been about, you got to, sometimes you have to let go of great players. Because salary cap, we've got a young guy it's 85% of him. Our offense change with a new system.

This tight end doesn't work with this coach. I would consider Zeke now two years out is privately telling people I'm going to hold out. Two years out. Also, I have to deal every offseason with a legal issue. I'd move him. I would not. The only thing that concerns me is what you said, the legal issue. The thing with the security guard, that's not a big deal.

That's happened a lot with many. of athletes before cameras were everywhere. I didn't think that was a big deal. You don't know what was said. Dude is making a big deal. He bumped you. Get out. Like, come on, man.

He didn't assault you. That does concern me the off-the-field stuff. Once you've been in trouble once or twice, stay clear. Hire security everywhere you go. It's a lot cheaper to hire security than it is to get an attorney. Higher security. You're going to spend more money on an attorney when you get in trouble.

You can get a haul for Zee. Touchdowns are down. When he's going into his fourth year, Like he has four really, really, really strong years left. Are we sure? Yes. You can't practice. You can't hit.

You can't go two a days. The game is so different now. Like the rules of, oh, runnybacks get old after. The rules are so different now. They get hit in the game, but in practice, there's no contact. You can't practice double days in training camp anymore. It's just so we did Oklahoma's a third day. Every year in Cincinnati in training camp, he was like, oh, man, I'm about to

a headache today. You need want to do it, but you got to do it. And so it's just so different now. I'm not trading them. If he holds out, he holds out. Now, if he holds out and it becomes a problem and I can get some things for him like the Vikings there for Herschel Walker, hey, then we'll move them. But I'm not looking to trade Ezekiel Elliott. I just, you know, sometimes, I think all things could be, should be considered. Outside of a franchise quarterback, I'm not moving to Sean Watson. I'm not moving Baker Mayfield and Cleveland. He's I'm going to sign him for a bunch of contracts. During last year, what were we talking about?

By the way, Baker's not my cup of tea, but Cleveland should sign him. Last year, we were saying if Dak Prescott got $25 million a year, he hit the lottery. The Cowboys would love to pay him $25 million a year right now. No, they die for it. The longer they wait, the worst is going to get. They have to, for sure, sign one of those guys to big deals. Good seeing you. Thank you the same.

Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the evening. internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 in the TikTok podcast,

network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee.

We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office, Blue, 42. A rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What?

Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Conky, his best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 Podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports.

And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.