The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Best of The Herd: 08/13/2018

Episode Date: August 13, 2018

Doug Gottlieb fills in for Colin and says Tiger won on Sunday despite finishing in second place. He thinks people calling Baker Mayfield an underdog doesn't make sense anymore. Plus, NBC Sports' Peter King joins Doug from Cowboys camp to talk about the rookie QBs around the NFL and whether the Raiders are ready to give up on Khalil Mack. Presented by Perky Jerky. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to the best of Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday. From 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRodio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by search. Searching Herd. This is the best of the herd with Colin Cowherd on Fox Sports Radio.

What up? Welcome in. This is the herd. Wherever you may be listening, however you may be making it be making as part of your day. What's that? Colin always says. I'm Doug Gottlieb, in for Colin Cowherd all week alongside the lovely, talented and prepared. Joy Taylor, how are you, Joy?

Morning. Wherever you may be, wherever you may be listening. I actually purposely... You purposely mess it up? Yeah, just... Sorry. Sorry. Kind of do that sort of thing. But that's okay. I like that you're actually listening enough. Were you watching yesterday afternoon?

Tiger. Yes. I mean, he's back, right? No, no, that wasn't my question. By not answering the question, you're answering the question. No, I don't, I don't, when he's back is when I'm going to be watching, if I'm keeping it real. What do you mean when he's back? He got stuck in? He was runner up. Did he win?

Look, I would, listen, I'm going to credit a friend of mine, Kyle Porter, who works for CBS, CBS Sports.com with this tweet. Tiger Woods wins the 2018 PGA championship with a score of 14 under. Brooks Kepka finished his second with a score of 16 under. That's what happened yesterday. Yes, that's what it feels like. No, it's not what it feels like. That's what happened. It's a bummer for Kepka, for sure.

Look, there's a certain shooter McGavin aspect to it, you know, from Happy Gilmore. I was too busy winning the tournament to pay attention to what Happy was doing off the T. Right. Right. And I do feel like maybe we should give... Which is a bit of an insult to Tiger. The weird way. But Tiger won yesterday. Have perspective on this.

Okay. Because whether it was the man who normally sits in this chair, many of the men and women who have sat in your chair or on that couch or all of the yakkers on TV, the tweeters out there, many who profess to know and have forgotten more about golf than we will ever know said he was. done. What's he doing? He's a joke. He's finished. Give it up. Just go be a dad. Find another wife. Find another life. Move on because it is over. You're finished. And even as the comeback started to mount, the narrative was Saturday and Sunday. Can't do it. But his scores actually progressively

got better. He shot at 64 yesterday and couldn't hit the fairway on the front nine. Like that was a remarkable round of golf. Look, I don't geek out about golf. Do I play golf? Yes. Okay. Am I good at golf? No, what's my handicap?

Golf generally is my handicap. But I can tell you that anyone with the, anyone with a brain can understand that if you don't hit a fairway on the front nine and you're still scoring well, you're doing something, that there's a parallel to what Tiger Woods was able to. to do on the front nine to what he's been able to do with his life. His life was a mess. Listen, can we take into account the fact that he cheated on his wife multiple times, now ex-wife, multiple times? Yes, is that a factor sure. But there was also multiple knee operations. He tore his Achilles tendon. He had, he's had four back surgeries, four. He went through multiple

swing coaches to now where he's coaching himself. He had the chipping yips two years, but a year ago, A year and a half ago, he had a DUI. Hell, you go back to February. He didn't make the cut at Riviera right down the road here. And he said he had to figure himself out. And people said, Tiger, we figured you out. It's over. And yet, he owned Sunday.

No, no, he did not raise the Wanamaker trophy. He did not. He's going against, he's like the guy who creates monsters, now having to fight these monsters. Brooks Kepka, who has taken Tagger's idea of athletes building their bodies up to drive a golf ball 340 yards and has done just that in using the fact that he's 28 years old. And Brooks Kepka had to play out of his mind to hold off Tiger Woods in which he started the day with a four-shot lead. What we saw yesterday didn't, Tiger Woods is never going to be back to what he was in his late 20s and early 30s. None of us who are in our 40s are ever going to be that guy, which is not.

But Tiger Woods owned golf, owned sports yesterday. Tiger completed the comeback and completed any sort of argument to whether or not he's the greatest golfer ever. Because you don't actually have to win a trophy to win the day. Think about this. The number of times Tiger Woods has had to score 10 under or better to win a major championship is 11. Jack Nicholas, of course, owns the record for 18 major titles, only twice. Tigers had to compete against tougher courses, better competition. Yes, he has better technology and his body is built up, but let's be honest.

The idea that Tiger is not better than Jack is kind of laughable, right? It's the same argument that Steve Kerr makes about athletes, like athletes now are going to be better than they were previously. They just are. Yesterday, he showed shot creativity. He continued to prove to us why he's, He's the best iron player in the history of the game. And though he did not make every putt, I mean, look, the real reason he lost or wasn't able to win

was because Saturday he missed three, four, maybe even five, makeable putts. He missed a couple yesterday as well. But considering where he was to how he played and how he finished, to turn a world of haters, a world of people who made fun of, the downfall into a world of supporters. I don't know how you would quantify whether or not he's back. I think he won yesterday. I think everybody feels that way.

And I think he cemented himself as the greatest golfer we have ever seen because he's having to overcome now an entirely new generation of players who only got into the sport because Tiger made it cool to get into the sport and get into shape and be an athlete while playing. the sport that has never been determined to be an athletic event. Eldrick Tiger Woods, who, look, there are many things that people say golfers have an upper hand on, right? It's a country club sport.

It eliminates at least half, if not, probably three quarters of the potential athletes out there to compete against. But Tiger did not come with a silver spoon in his mouth. And yet, at three years old, four years old, we were told he was going to be the next thing, and he lived up to it. And then like so many, this is a tale as old as time, he succumbed to all the trappings of fame.

All of it. Arrogance. Stepping out on his marriage. The idea that he didn't want to, he didn't want to, you know, perform under the norms of, of the general golf population, right?

Curseing on a golf course, how he would react. You watch Tiger Woods and how he walked into the golf course yesterday. That was a man who won the day. Hat on backwards. No, Colin would not approve of him being a franchise quarterback. Hat on backwards. Sunglasses on.

Chest out. Cardinal Red shirt. He owns St. Louis. He saved a sport single-handedly. Golf was going the way, frankly, of NASCAR. of being a sport to which, you know, in the 90s and early 2000s, we were super into. And now we're like, eh, I understand, I understand how popular it is in different regions of the country and in different places. But it does feel like it jumped the shark a little bit.

Tiger saved it yesterday. To the point where I don't know if you're like this, here's how good Tiger is. Here's how good TV was yesterday. over 240 days until the Masters next year. That's a bummer, isn't it? Right? Because you want it to be this next weekend, or the weekend after that. Next year, you got the Masters,

Beth Page Black, and Pebble Beach. Those are the three majors played on our soil. Pebble, where he won by 15 strokes, the Masters where he could play blind. Matter of fact, after the car accident, after the breakdown with Elyleon, he still finished in fourth place, the very next Masters. And Beth Page Black, which is just outside of New York City, which of course will be like a home game.

There are so many parts of this story which are so incredible. The idea that we went from being a polarizing guy that many people in the sport disliked and people out of the sport had disdain for to where you almost, I almost found myself rooting against Bruce, Bruce, Brooks Keppka, right? He gets up there on 17, a par five, which you know he's going to be on the green and two, and you're thinking, just hit it in the woods. Hit a fan. Put it in the drink.

You almost wish that he snapped his club on his back swing. Tell me, I'm lying. Well, you were suddenly rooting it, and there's nothing wrong with Bruce Kepp. Bruce. Brooks Kebka, whatever his name is, whoever raised a Wannemaker trophy. I know who Brooks Kepka is. he's won three majors of the last six that he's been in seven overall he's won three out of seven three of the last six that he's been in and yet most of america if not all of america was suddenly turning against our own just because of

tigar woods changing our view of a sport coming back from something that most thought you could never come back from. Performing better on a Sunday than he had on a Saturday, better than he had on Thursday, better than on Friday. To me, Tiger Woods put himself down as I'm the best that's ever done it. He appeared humble. He appeared gracious. He appeared to understand the gravity of the comeback. And whether or not you think that's real or fake, don't tell me you weren't in yesterday. You don't think Tiger's back, Joy? I think I would argue the golf won yesterday. than Tiger. He didn't,

because he didn't literally win, and it feels like he won, right? Yes. So the ratings were up 69% from last year. Yes. Rob Grankowski's favorite rise in golf ratings ever.

Krunk's favorite rating, yes. They did an 8.3 on Sunday. So golf won yesterday. But I would argue that this is more of a moral victory. And in order for this to be sustainable, to say Tiger's back and Tiger's winning again,

he's going to have to actually win, which I'm very much rooting for. I've never been out on Tiger from the very beginning of everything. I despise the turning that we do on not only just athletes, just anyone who has any sort of... This is kind of what we do, right? We build you up to tear you down. And then we root for the comeback. You didn't actually have to tear them down in the first place.

Well, listen, this is a deeper dive that I want to get into. Sure. But the point is, I've never been against Tiger coming back or being great. I think the whole entire sports world needs Tiger to be great, not just golf. But I think actual winning has to happen before that's the case. I do think that there are some people. And look, there are some things about him to which, I don't know if he deserved to be torn down, but we all deserve to be humbled on some level, right?

To understand our mortality as human beings, there's a way to treat people. And it's not just him. There are others that have seen. But I actually believe his comeback is real. Like, there's something to the fact that when he takes off that. hat, you can see he's balding underneath. That as much as he's still an athlete, there's still a little bit of a 40-year-old pouch there. It's this, like, I actually, I like that. It's a human desire to see some sort of relatable

characteristic in people that are so much greater than us at one, at any particular thing, right? Like, he's so far above and beyond, not even just as a golfer in general, but just as a figure and as a legend, that once we start to see some mortality, that's what, that's what it is. That's what why people tore him down. oh, you're not really as great as you say you are. I'm not using that to tear him down. I'm using that to, I actually think that elevates him. I actually, I think that the scars that we have, like I'm an anti-Botox guy, right?

Like, I'm an anti-hair replacement guy. Like, the scars that you have from your life are what make you, are they what make you special as a human being. And all of this other stuff, the winning by 15 at Pebble and all of the, all of the early success, the death of his dad, the downfall is... That makes his story unique. It's an incredible journey. And to me, I see... When I see a guy who's from the same area of the country,

a same exact part of the country I'm from, at the exact same age I am, and when I see him get back to the level that so many said he would never get back to, like, I find myself rooting even more for it when I see him take off his hat and go like, yeah, the dude, he doesn't have all his hair. Guess what? Most of us don't.

Because you know what he's overcome to get there. Absolutely. Absolutely. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Let's talk about some of these young quarterbacks and our reaction and overreaction to week one of the preseason being in the bank. Greg Jennings, of course, an analyst for the NFL on Fox and Fox Sports One, 10 season

in the NFL, Super Bowl champion, two-time pro bowler, all around good dude. Before we get to football, how much golf did you watch this weekend? A lot. Yeah. I found myself watching an uncomfortable amount of football and golf this weekend. Like, man, I just, where did the time go? I just watched a lot of both. Yeah.

It was fun. It was a good, interesting, filled sports weekend with football being back in the fold. And obviously, Tiger, what he was doing, he just glues you to every set that, it doesn't matter where you are. I was in a restaurant and they didn't have it up right away. I mean, he wasn't even teeing off yet, but I'm like, I got my phone on the table and I'm like, are you guys going to put it up? I don't understand these people who are so completely, who run restaurants who are completely unaware. My high school coach and two of my close friends, they were, they were, I was with a buddy

of mine Spiro Ditas who called the Charger game and we're having lunch. And then my other buddies are up at BJs, which is, you know, it's got all these TVs and whenever. And I was like, I'll shoot up there. Do you guys have golf on? He's like, no, should we tell him to put it? And I was like, yeah. Yeah. Meanwhile, I'm driving. I got it on my phone. I'm driving. Keep keeping taps on. Greg Jennings joins us. Is there a most impressive of this young quarterback class one week of the preseason in the bank? Most impressive? Yep. I would say Baker Mayfield. For me, I think When I look at Baker Mayfield, he's in the best situation.

He has the best talent around him, receivers, offensive line, group of running backs, and a quarterback that he's probably going to sit behind, who knows for how long. I look at Josh Rosen in his situation, being behind Sam Bradford. He's going to play. They have poor offensive line play. And I don't like to speak someone getting hurt.

I don't want to see Sam Bradford being hurt. Listen, I actually like Sam Bradford. People hold it against him and he got $50 million guaranteed out of college. Like, look, dude, that was just the game at the time. That's not his fault. Right. But it's not a question of if it's a question of when Sam Bradford is too banged up to play. Correct?

He's fragile. He's not mobile. So if you have poor offensive line play, you have a quarterback who's not mobile, who has a history of being injured. the likelihood of Josh Rosen playing very high. Right. I do, however, I don't like... He's got better skill position guys around him than the Browns do, dude.

He's got David Johnson. He's got Larry Fitzgerald. So that's two. Right. That's two. I'm saying complete, Baker Mayfield has a better situation. Josh Rosen has Larry Fitzgerald, who's obviously first ballot Hall of Famer. And then you have the best running back out of all the young quarterbacks that you could possibly have in a David Johnson.

But how effective will their running game be? Sure. Because their offensive line is their play is poor. So, I mean, yeah, you have a safety net there. Sam Bradford, I'm sorry, Sam Darnold. Yep. I feel for the guy because, I mean, I don't know anyone on the Jets roster. I mean, an eye in the position that I should know someone at...

You're probably going to be doing a Jets game later this year for Fox too. I know you're doing games this year. I'm like, man, I've got to bone up a little bit. I should kind of know that. And I think that his situation, him being behind Josh McCown, he's going to eventually play, I believe, as well. I just think that Baker Mayfield is in the best situation. He showed us a little bit. And he was already in an exciting situation.

but he has nothing to His his threshold, his floor is in the basement. Like, they won zero games. Right. So Baker Mayfield, whatever he does is a success.

I saw this online today. We're getting ready. We're in our meeting. And Ryan Music, who's my producer on the Doug Gottlieb show, which follows this show on Fox Sports Radio, 12 to 3 Pacific,

3 to 6 Eastern Time. He pointed out to me, he's like, hey, have you seen this line that Vegas now ranks the Packers, one of your former teams, the Packers as the favorite to land Khalil Mack before the season is up. And I was like, wow. And it's one of those things to which, wait, we double-checked it, we triple-checked it, and it is in fact.

So how does this work that we went from John Gruden, not having conversation with Khalil Mack, Khalil Mack not playing the first preseason game, to Vegas believing there's a better chance that he plays for the Packers this year, then he plays for the Raiders. Well, when I first heard it, I was kind of like you, like what? But then the more I sit back and I analyze everything, you got Reggie McKenzie who was former Packer guy at the general manager position out in Oakland.

If they can't get something done, you're looking at a Green Bay Packer team that obviously needs a pass rusher. I mean, they use Clay Matthews everywhere. Nick Perry is kind of he's healthy one minute. He injured the next. They need a pass rusher that can put pressure on the quarterback every single down. And Khalil Mack, obviously, he gives you that. The likelihood of it happening, I don't know that.

But I could see where the talk has kind of been created because of the relationships there and the inquiring of, hey, what's going on with Khalil Mack? the Packers front office to the Oakland Raiders front office because they do have relations. I mean, Jordy just went from the Green Bay Packers to the Oakland Raiders. So, I mean, general managers, they talk, especially when they come from a winning organization or a familiar place that has had success. And we pretty much like to draft similar guys. I could see that being why they would be tops the list.

But, Calil, don't, you can't get rid of Khalil Mack. What team will Khalil Mack be on at the end of October? This is from Odshark. Packers at plus 300. Raiders at plus 400. And the Jets, of course, have a ton of cast base at plus 700. Bills at plus 700. So are the Redskins as well.

Let me ask you about the helmet rule, the new helmet rule. Again, we're only one week in, all these preseason games with plus the Hall of Fame game. What's your reaction to how it's being used? I get what the league is. trying to do, I don't per se care for the new helmet rule. And again, I understand the safety reasons why. But when I look at a guy leading with the helmet, you tell me a guy that can make a tackle and throw their shoulder and their head doesn't go with it. Like, it's going to happen. And when we were at the seminar for Fox,

we had the refs come in and they were telling us about this new rule and how it was going to impact and affect the game. And I just don't see it being clear across the board. Called consistently, I think that is where the problem will arise. Because you're talking about they're going to call, or they're supposed to call any contact with the crown of the head Whether you're an offensive guy or a defensive guy, that is now a penalty. Okay, but listen, I could play this.

Hold on, the offensive linemen, they cut block. You got running backs who cut block. I understand that right now it's like when they took hand-checking out of the NBA. Early on, it was a complete disaster. Everybody complained about it. And then slowly but surely they figured it out. They don't want another Ryan Chazier. That's what we don't want.

We don't want one of our star players being carted off the field and now walking on crutches not being able to walk or run fluidly. We don't want that. So I understand that right now it's a shock to the system, that it's going to screw up a drive. It's going to screw up a game. Hell, it may screw up the season. But the risk in staying with the status quo is the status quo. And Ryan Chesier was basically paralyzed and he's recovering from it based on lowering his helmet and using the crown, using the crown. using the crown of his helmet to make a tackle last year on a Thursday night.

And I think that's what the league is reacting, maybe overreacting to, but it's a good thing to overreact to. Yeah, I mean, I don't, again, I would never say that they're overreacting because it's a safety issue. And we've seen, it doesn't matter any rule that that's been put into place. When it's regarding safety, it has never been rescinded. It's never, you've never gone back and said, okay, we're going to put a seatbelt in the car. and now that the cars are made better and more...

We're going to take the seatbelt thing out? We're going to take the... That just doesn't happen. Yes, but the point is, when the seatbelt law first came into existence, there are people like, well, what happens to when you're submerged? When you, like, okay, well, if you go off a bridge and you don't have a seatbelt on, you're not going to be in the car to be submerged. So, look, I agree with you that they're never going to take it away,

but I do think they're going to adjust some of how they look at this rule. It's going to be fascinating to see. What's up, everybody? This is John Middlecock on the three-and-out podcast, brought to you by Colin Coward's Podcast Network. If you like Colin's show, you will like my podcast. I talked a ton of football. This week, I talked Baker Mayfield.

I talked the Kaleel Mac situation. And I talk about what's important for NFL front offices during the preseason. Again, you can find me wherever you listen to podcast. Three and out with John Middlecalf on the Hurd's podcast network. What is an underdog? What is an underdog? How would you characterize an underdog? Hmm.

I was, I wasn't bored during the break, but I did look it up. Just so, just so, you know, we're aware, a competitor thought to have a little chance of winning a fight or a contest. Like, that's the, that's the underdog. So I look at the Cleveland Brown situation. And for the record, Colin and I have, he asked me this Thursday on the show when I was down at Charger Camp, my thoughts on Baker Mayfield. And I said, look, I think you got a little bit wrong. that though he carries himself with a certain amount of confidence, boarding around arrogance, unlike others that are perceived that way,

he was beloved in his sooner locker room. Beloved. Like, yeah, he's kind of cock at the walk sort of guy. But he was beloved as a leader. He's got a high football IQ. The questions about Baker Mayfield would be, how would he perform when he doesn't have elite talent around him? Can you lift a franchise up?

The way that Andrew Luck had to, his first three years with the Colts. Remember, though he was at Texas Tech as a freshman walk on and he got a chance to start, when you play at Texas Tech, you're playing with one of the best offensive minds in the entire sport, Cliff Kingsbury. Don't believe me, look at the numbers he put up. Look at the numbers Davis Webb put up. Look at the numbers. Pat Mahomes put up. Look at the numbers.

Every quarterback they've had to put up. The issue at Texas Tech has never been quarterback play ever. This year it might be because they have a couple to choose from. then he goes to Oklahoma and he's surrounded by the best talent in the league. Oklahoma has better players than 95% of the teams that they play against. And he's been coached by Lincoln Riley, who, from that same mold, one of the elite play callers offensive minds in the entire business. What happens when you go to the Cleveland Browns or to any organization in the NFL

where you don't have elite-level talent? Jarvis Landry is that type of talent, but they don't have Josh Gordon. There's a lot of question marks about the rest of the team. So I'm not negative on Baker Mayfield, but the evaluation of Baker Mayfield is a little bit small, not as athletic as people think, though he's accurate, how strong is his arm, how good is his ability to play? He's just not rated out as good a prospect as a Sam Donald or maybe a Josh Rosen. and by some of Josh Allen,

a bigger, better deep ball thrower, even if he's not as accurate. But he's got a super high football IQ. But let me tell you two different stories and you tell me who the underdog is. One quarterback is as decorated a quarterback to enter the National Football League as we've ever had. He was a finalist for the Heisman trophy three times.

He won the Heisman trophy once. He played in the college football. college football playoff two different times. He played a historically great university for football under an incredible long-time head coach and a profound play caller. He was the number one overall pick in the NFL draft. That's one quarterback. The other quarterback was a sixth round draft pick, also smaller than the other quarterback,

but not even six feet tall. he's on his third team. His last team, he led to the playoffs after the longest drought in the national football league. They tried to bench him last year and the rookie threw five interceptions in the first half. And there's nearly a mutiny in the hands of the coach. And even after leading his previous team to the playoffs,

they still didn't want him around and he ends up going to a team that had won zero games the year before. So I watched the Browns play, and I thought Baker Mayfield played well. Should be pointed out that Tyrod Taylor also played well, maybe played better. It didn't throw it in complete pass. Yet somehow, and we do this as a viewing public, we create guys that we like, we create narratives that we like. Baker Mayfield was undervalued, underrated coming out of high school. He was, in fact, a walk on at Texas Tech, although he did have opportunities to be a Division I football player at other places. He chose to walk on. He did the same at Oklahoma.

But he wasn't undervalued in the national football league. If anything, he might have been overvalued. He might have been overrated. He was the number one overall pick. Of any player you could pick, he went first. So it's just amazing to me on how we consider him an underdog, a competitor thought to have little chance of winning a fight or contest, as opposed to Tyrod Taylor, who's smaller, bounce around from Baltimore to Buffalo. now to Cleveland and really has essentially no chance of holding off Baker Mayfield no matter how well he plays. Think about that for a second.

What you call an underdog and what actually is an underdog. In this fight, Tyrod Taylor's the underdog. Baker Mayfield is the favorite. There's no other way to look at it, even if your mind wants to tell you watching Baker Mayfield scramble around, makes you think of the fact that he was a walk-on attack and lost his starting job, and then a walk on at Oklahoma and then won the starting job and then eventually won the Heisman trophy. If you actually know the definition of a word, Tyrod Taylor, by definition, by any definition,

is the underdog in that quarterback competition. They drafted Baker Mayfield number one. When you draft a guy number one overall, the reason that you can't miss is because he is going to play. Period. Stop. End of story. He is going to play.

He has to succeed. You have to win with him. And if you don't believe me in Cleveland, it's just different to number one. You can even miss on two. You can miss on three. You can't miss on one. Anthony Bennett was the number one overall pick with the Cleveland Cavaliers. And in that draft, in that draft, Victor Oladipo, probably the best of those top five, top ten guys.

It wasn't just that they missed on Anthony Bennett. It was not in the NBA anymore. It's that they missed on the number one overall pick. They could have picked anybody, and they picked a guy that could even stick in the league. Baker Mayfield has to succeed. And look, John Dorsey probably doesn't even want to play him. He comes from Kansas City where they drafted Pat Mahomes last year, played him in the preseason, and he played great,

sat him the whole regular season, plays in Week 17, and then eventually bids a do to Alex Smith. I sure that's what he wants to do. But Pat Mahomes was drafted 10th. There's a huge gap between being drafted 10th and being drafted first overall for a team that's won one game combined in the past two years. Baker's going to play.

Why? Because he's the favorite. Tyrod Taylor is the underdog that essentially has no shot. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd. Weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Let's link up with Peter King from NBC Sports. Kind of have to spend some time of this here Monday in The Herd. And Peter, everyone's talking about these rookie quarterbacks.

Let's start with Sam Donald, who of course tore it up for the New York Jets. And look, I started by saying, I didn't, no one that I know in football thought their trade was a smart trade. But didn't they luck into getting Sam Donald, who was many people's number one quarterback prospect at the third pick? Well, I don't know, Doug. I mean, I thought that Baker Mayfield was the best quarterback in this crop. And this was a very beauty in the, beauties in the eye of the beholder draft for quarterback. There's some people, if he gave him the first pick, they would have taken Josh Allen. Some would have taken Mayfield.

Some would have taken Darnold. Maybe some, although I don't know, who would have taken Josh Rosen. And to me, when I look at this quarterback draft, I kind of look at, you look at the history of quarterbacks being drafted. Sam Darnel, it's almost 50-50, whether he's going to succeed or fail. And so many of the factors are beyond his control. So I don't look at this and say, man, the Jets got lucky in getting Darnold. You might look at it in five years and say, oh, my God, the Jets blew it by not taking

Josh Allen. Let me ask you about these rookie quarterbacks. Who's the most likely to start the soonest? Oh, my gut feeling is probably Josh Allen. He seems to have the clearest path to starterdom in Buffalo. but I think Donald, if Donald's the best guy, especially in the third preseason game,

I think he's got a very good chance to start. The thing I like about Allen early on is that, you know, I was in their camp and I talked to general manager Brandon Bean and he goes, because he knows that everybody thinks, hey, take your time with Josh Allen. He played at Wyoming.

It was not an accurate guy. Make sure he is all there before you use them. and he doesn't feel that way at all. He said, we are playing the best guy to win opening day. So, you know, that's a little bit of a different attitude than you have in Cleveland and, quite frankly, you have in Arizona right now with Josh Rosen. All right. Let's go to Cleveland because they are interesting. You have John Dorsey who comes from Kansas City.

Peter King joining us from NBC Sports. Doug Gottlieven for Colin here on the herd on Fox Sports Radio Fox Sports One. So Dorsey comes over from Kansas City where couldn't have worked out any better for them, right? get to the playoffs with Alex Smith. Mahomes plays the preseason, plays week 17. He's now the guy. One year later, he redshirted essentially a season. He's ready to go. I think that's what Dorsey would like to do. And he has Tyrod Taylor, who led the bills to the playoffs even after they benched him. But it's different when you have Baker. Baker seems to be ready to play. You said you thought he was the best quarterback of the class. And he's the number one overall pick. And they need

hope in Cleveland. What do you think Cleveland ultimately does? they start Tyrod Taylor opening day and then as the season goes on they just see a if mayfield is ready uh he's a precocious guy uh and see if he's ready and then i think the other part of this is you know so two weeks ago today i'm in brown's camp and i ask uh hugh jackson about mayfield and i didn't even say so are you sticking with your decision he just volunteered this he goes peter i am not not changing my mind on the quarterback. Tyrod Taylor is starting, and someday Baker Mayfield is going to thank me for this. And, you know, Doug, I go back to 2003 and look at the redshirt year that Carson Palmer had.

And Carson Palmer really was the better for that, even coming out of USC. So I think the majority of this season, as my gut feeling, Baker Mayfield will not be the quarterback of the Cleveland Browns. Okay, well, Des Bryant, be a wider seer for the, Cleveland Browns. Boy, when I was there, people really poo-poohed that to me. Now, I mean, I guess I would just ask this question. Do you want, do you want to bring an incendiary guy into a place that is essentially, you're trying to get the chemistry right, you're trying to get it right? You know, I'm at Oxnard today at the Cowboys. I think the Cowboys would tell you that, you know, at times this was an explosive guy as much off the field as on.

And he was not a great player the last two years. So, I mean, to me, I don't think it would be a terrible move for the Browns to do that, but I certainly don't think it's a fade accompli. You mentioned that you're in Cowboys Camp. I was up there about a week ago. And the thing that struck me is, one, how the kind of the younger group had now kind of taken over the old guard for the most part. is gone, which leads a little bit of a leadership void, even if Doc is the leader.

He's not as vocal leaders as some in the past. But I looked at that wide receiver core. You lose Witten, you lose DES, and there really is no number one. There's a bunch of twos and threes. And I get that they feel like, hey, we're going to make you have to load up to stop Zeeke, and that's going to create one-on-one. But do they have the weapons to create space for Dak to be able to put balls, into windows. He's not crazy accurate. He wasn't throwing guys open last year and it doesn't feel

like they have guys that demand a double team. I guess I'm wondering your thoughts in that wide receiving core and combined with the tight end core. This place reminds me an awful lot of San Francisco. I was at the 49ers yesterday. You know, you've got one guy in the tight end and wide receiver core, Marquise Goodwin, who I think can be probably a special player. And other than that, you have got to find these guys, you've got to invent these guys. And that's why I think, especially, I think the Jason Witten loss here is a significant loss. And I'm not saying they don't have guys to replace them, but I think, Doug, in a time like this, now we're going to see how good a teaching staff Jason Garrett has assembled. I think that's vitally important for the 2018 Cowboys,

not only to get your quarterback back on track and make sure he's more like 2017 or 16 than he was 17, but to basically make sure that all of these guys in your receiving core and it and a tight end, you know, get on the same page and get good chemistry with Dak Prescott from opening day on. Odd Shark has the Packers as the most likely destination after October for Khalil Mack. He's still not in camp with the Raiders. There was limited, if any, communication between he and John Gruden up to this point. What's your feel on how that goes down in Oakland? I can't believe that Mark Davis would either approve of the trade of Kaleo Mack or trade him himself.

That would be a nightmare scenario. You do not trade a potential Hall of Fame pass rusher as he enters his prime. You've got to pay him, period. The cap keeps going up and you've got to be able to do business in this league. If you admit fail, if you trade Kaleo Mack in my opinion, you're admitting that you can't do business in the modern NFL. And if you can't do that, in my opinion, then Mark Davis should get a partner, a deep pocketed partner who's going to help him with things like the signing bonus for guys, you have to get paid.

publicly the new helmet rule the new contact rule with the top with the crown of the helmet is being panned people don't like it it's there's flags everywhere and you almost feel like you watch the cardinals game against the the chargers you can't even make a legal tackle anymore privately what are NFL people saying about how this rule is being used I ran into Jukwoski tarred hard hitting safety for the 49ers yesterday at 49er camp and I was talking to him about it and he he goes, and this is cliche, but I can tell you a lot of defensive players feel this way. He said, looks like it's turning into flag football or two-hand touch. And I think a lot of people fear that. Doug, I think this is a good and admirable attempt by the NFL. I really, really do. I think it has to be done. I think you have to say to the moms and dads of America, send your kids to play football,

we're going to make it safe or as safe as we can make it. do I think it's going to have some debacle type effects absolutely unequivocally. Do I think they should be doing this? I still do. I might change my mind after four or five weeks, but this has to be done for the future of the game. Peter, I could not agree with you more. Let me let me let you go with this. Kirk Cousins being called a savior.

I look at it. And I think we talk about so many other teams, so many other interesting teams. here's the team got to the NFC championship game with arguably their third quarterback and with the backup running Mac. Now they got Dalvin Cookback and they got Kirk Cousins who did a lot with a little in Washington. The Vikings a team that people should think the most of, even in that NFC North, even with the healthy Aaron Rogers. I think they're the best team in the NFC North.

But again, we've never seen Kirk Cousins play winning great football in January. you know, he's got to prove that he can win playoff games and play very well in playoff games. He hasn't done it. I mean, it's easy to make statements in August. And I really like Kirk Cousins for a lot of reasons in, you know, mostly football ones. But he's got to do it. This is not having to do with liking and guys' personality or commanding the huddle or whatever. You've got to play well in January for that contract to be justified.

Peter, great stuff as always. Thanks so much for stepping away from Cowboys. camp for a second. I know you got a bunch of interviews to do. We appreciate you being our guest in the herd. My pleasure, Doug. Thank you. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

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