The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Best of The Herd: 09/07/2018

Episode Date: September 7, 2018

Colin points out that once again Matt Ryan blew a chance to show everyone that he's great just like he has been doing for years. He thinks there is much more pressure on Cam Newton this season than Dak Prescott. Plus, future Hall of Famer and recently retired Browns OT Joe Thomas talks with Colin about the Browns 2018 outlook and the best QB who failed in Cleveland but could have worked elsewhere. Presented by Perky Jerky. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Ah, this is The Herd on a Friday, wherever you may be, and however you may be listening, live in Los Angeles, Iheart Radio, Fox Sports Radio and FS1, the herd sponsored by Firestone, complete auto care, keep your car running newer and longer. Joy Taylor is joining me. Morning. A lot of penalties last night, 45-minute rain delay, which probably on the East Coast, Some people went to bed, not in Philadelphia, certainly. It is definitely a perk of being on the West Coast.

I feel for my East Coast people, though, because I'm still kind of programs for the East Coast and being there my whole life. I'm like, it's supposed to be dark out of this football on. Yes. All right. In one hour, my blazing five, my best NFL football peaks in a week one I've ever had. But let me start with this. Last night was two really good teams.

Both were a little rusty, a lot of penalties. Both will be better by the end of the year. And both will be around at the end of the year in the playoffs. These are very, very good football teams. And when I look at the stats, I got all the stats right here. Boy, they're just first downs. They're real close. And total drives and, you know, yards per play.

And time of possession. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Oh, here's one where they're not close. Third down efficiency. The Eagles backup quarterback was 8 of 16. Maddie Ice was 4 of 15. That's with Julio Jones. That's with two good running backs.

That's with a better than average offensive line. Maddie Ice was ice cold, one for nine red zone passing. Last night, once again, all I'm doing is waiting for Maddie Ice to make a play in a big game and he doesn't. Super Bowl had the lead, couldn't fourth quarter. Last year, divisional playoffs, final play couldn't. Last night, final play couldn't. By the way, the Atlanta coach is in the first quarter. First drive of the game.

Stay out there, Maddie. Stay out there, Maddie. You prove everybody wrong, Maddie. No, he's proven me right. People get upset when I say, if you take out the one great year, Matt Ryan is Andy Dalton. He's closer to Andy Dalton than he is Aaron Rogers,

and everybody freaks out. But Andy Dalton has one great receiver, AJ Green. Matt Ryan's got one great receiver, Julio Jones. They both have a defensive head coach. They both have a cooler nickname than they actually are. They've got decent arms, but not great. They can move a little, but they're not mobile. They have two other teams in their division, Steelers, Ravens, who are better organizations.

You've got the Panthers and Saints. Those are really good organizations. And what's the knock always on Andy Dalton? I can't beat the Steelers. And wants to knock on Matt Ryan. He can't win the game. Well, there was the one MVP year. Stop it.

Kyle Shanahan makes everybody better. Kyle Shanahan and Jimmy Garoppolo have never lost a game together. I like Jimmy Garopolo, but he would lose games with other coaches. I always say this with a real estate agent. If you're a real estate agent for 10 years and you have one spike year because you sell a mansion, somebody hooks you up, friend of a friend, you sell a mansion. Okay, that's great, but that's not who you are. Of the 10 years, who you are is the nine other.

years when you sell nice homes. You're a solid real estate agent, make a nice living. You had that one spike year because a buddy hooked you up and you sold a mansion. Made a lot of money that year. About the next year, you went back to, you know, being a good, solid real estate agent. Don't give me his MVP year. Kyle Shanahan left. He came back to being, you know, Matt Ryan.

By the way, Matt Ryan, Andy Dalton, you put the numbers up. Take out the MVP year. Same darn guy. You just don't want to hear it. in the Super Bowl year with Kyle Shanahan. Matt Ryan scored 35 points or more 10 times. He's never done it once since. And he never makes the play.

I saw Nick Foles make the play in the Super Bowl. I saw Case Keenham make the play in the playoffs against the Saints. I've seen Breeze and Brady and Ben. I've seen Cam make the play. I'm always waiting for Maddie Ice to make the play. And don't kid yourself. Don't you always feel this way. There's in the dome, Matt Ryan, and there's outdoor Matt Ryan.

Maybe he just keeps playing Philadelphia on the road. Need to get him at home. But my lasting memory, and I saw it three times last night, Matt Ryan, fourth down, chance for a touch. down. Can't get it done. I'm not anti-Matt Ryan. I'm just realistic Matt Ryan. He and Andy Dalton both have a nickname Red Rifle, Maddie Ice. That's better than the actual

player. And both always leave me feeling like, they're good. But I'm waiting for the play. Nick Foles gave it to me. in the Super Bowl. I still don't have one for Maddie Ice. Let me shift to this. Let's talk Philadelphia Eagles for a second. Now, they're a very good football team.

I don't have them win in the Super Bowl, but I haven't won in the division. They're a good football team. And I always felt like this. In Hollywood, there were a lot of tough guys for years and years. A lot of action stars. Sylvester Stallonellone was a tough guy. Arnold Schwarzenegro was a tough guy.

Ben Diesel was a tough guy. Tom Seismore was a tough guy. but in his prime when he was like 45 years old you know who the toughest guy was nobody messed with Clint Eastwood Clint Eastwood's one of those guys and we've all had a friend like this you just don't mess with

I can't really take a joke you just you just they're wow you just wouldn't want to end up on the wrong side of Clint Eastwood when he was 40 now it's a little different but 40 45 years old there's always that guy in the bar not the biggest not the strongest but you're like you don't want to mess with that guy.

Connor McGregor's not the biggest, toughest guy in the UFC, but you don't want to mess with Connor McGregor. Philadelphia's got a roster and a culture full of those guys. That final drive last night, you know, it was four minutes left. Five straight times. Pound the ball. Pound the ball. Get the push.

Pound the ball. Make the play. That's Philadelphia football. Offensive and defensive line, that is a locker room full of tough guys. By the way, what did they do? What did they do in the offseason? They got Michael Bennett, another tough guy. Haladinoa, another tough guy.

They went and drafted a tied end from South Dakota State. 260, 6.6. Another tough guy. Atlanta's culture is fast and slick. What did they do in the first round? They got something they really, really needed another Alabama-wide receiver who didn't do anything last night, a small guy. They got more skilled.

What you watched last night was the difference in two cultures. This is why Philadelphia last year was number one of the NFC in the red zone. Tough guys. Space gets limited. Gets tight down there. Not a lot of space. Guys all jumbled up. Who wins in that scenario?

Tough guys. Philly's got a roster with tough guys. Guys, you wouldn't want to get a fight in two whiskeys in. Guys, you don't want to mess with. guys you don't want to cross. Atlanta's skilled. Atlanta's fast. Atlanta's lousy in the red zone last year.

And lousy in the red zone last night. When you need that extra push and you need that little extra thing that football demands, you watch two cultures last night, a skilled, fast, slick culture that once again can't get it done in the red zone. and the tough guy punch you in the neck, Clint Eastwood in his 40s, dirty hairy culture. Man, when that game came down to brass tacks, they lined it up, Philadelphia did, they just lined it up.

And that looked like the Big 12, Atlanta, and Philadelphia looked like Alabama. We're just going to lean on you. This is going to be a street fight. We need five carries and a two-point conversion. And that's what Philadelphia did. bang bang bang bang bang bang ran the ball five straight times

like I think the Rams the Chiefs there's a lot of good rosters Houston I'm not sure there's a roster with more guys if you need a yard

or need to stop a team from getting a yard I'm not sure there's a better roster in the NFL than Philadelphia and boy did we see opposites last night We saw the Big 12 and we saw Bama last night. One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app.

Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. You're always pretty secure if you have a job if you're outperforming your contract or you're outperforming what somebody's paying you. If you work at a company and they're paying you $40,000 a year, but you're really doing the work of somebody that should be making double. that, they're never going to fire you. Those are people that keep their jobs forever. People that are outperforming their contract. If a company pays you $100,000 and they look at it and go, you know, a lot of guys around him doing more for less than you're in trouble.

So that's how pro sports works. Like, if we're going to pay a lot of money, you've got to be worth the cap hit. If we're not paying you much and you're outperforming it, I got to feel good that. I'm reading a story. Cowboys this weekend face Carolina. It is a can't miss game. And I'm reading the story this morning. Pressure on Dak Prescott. This is the big year. There's no pressure on him. Cam Newton is the number one pick here. Cam Newton makes 21.25 million a year. Cam Newton's coming off a week year. Cam Newton's Superman. You go to last year, DAC and Cam. Dak was a better quarterback. Dak had a better passer rating.

Dak had fewer interceptions. Dak had a better completion percentage. Dak had more yards. Both had six rushing touchdowns. Dak had fewer fumbles. Okay. The pressure in this game Sunday, it's not on DAC. Dak's making $725,000 a year.

And yet, over the last two years, the Cowboys have won more games than anybody in the NFC. He's totally outperforming his contract. Now, the Cowboys, by the end of the year, will have to make a decision on him, and I think they'll make the right decision, the prudent decision, which is to pay him. But Carolina, for the last couple of years, first round, running back, first round, wide receiver, fire all their offensive coaches. Why?

Because right now, Cam, as a number one pick, is a guy called Superman, is a number. man is underperforming. Folks, he's never had back-to-back winning seasons. So if you look at the moves Carolina's making, fire and coaches, new offensive coordinator, running back first round, who are they drafting? Wide receivers, bringing a running back from Denver.

They're trying to get Cam to be worth that 22 large. Like, there's no pressure on DAC. Just go out. you're making $775,000, whatever it is. Are you kidding me? There's not a player in the NFL right now. Not a single player that is outperforming his contract more than Dak Prescott. He is the single greatest value in this league.

And they're not even a second place. No pressure on him. Dak go out, play, do what you do, win nine games. You're going to get a great contract. Let me shift to this. One of the things I always complain about. I'm a guy. But here's something guys do that drives me crazy.

And Joy, you probably, you know this is true about guys. Guys do this all the time. Not going to speak for women. Guys want to be right, not necessarily get it right. You start arguing with a guy. You give him the data. He just wants to be right and win the argument. No, get it right.

Here's the data. You ever had to fight with a guy in argument? He's more worried about being right than getting it right? I got to be honest. I've been accused of this. But yes, I've also had the argument with the person who has to be right, even though they have no facts in space completely off of their emotions. So NFL, my whole life, there was a rule in the NFL.

Take the points. If you have points, take them. The average NFL team is averaging 21.7 points a game. Atlanta last night, first drive, fourth down, get the points. Just get the points. Instead, Atlanta's trying to prove a point. Their coaches are trying to prove a point. Matt Ryan can make things happen on fourth down.

Okay, I keep seeing him your try, and it's not working, because that's not who he is. He's not mobile enough to run it in. He didn't have that arm to squeeze it in. Matt Ryan's a good quarterback, but you're trying, you're trying to be right. Matt Ryan is. Get it right. Kick the field goal. If you kicked a field goal last night, first drive, all you would have needed for a feel at the end of the game to tie it was a field goal.

But you put yourself in situations. where you had to get a touchdown late, it's football. This is not the Big 12. It's not 40 to 38 every Saturday. The average NFL game is 2320. Since when do we consider field goals to be like a garnish on a plate? No, they're not the steak, but they're at least the potatoes. I mean, I'm not saying they're the steak, but they're not a garnish.

Field goals matter. The Falcon's ego last. night, we're going to prove to you that Matt can get it done. Just kick a field goal. This is Philadelphia. They got pro bowlers everywhere. First drive, you got points. Go sit down.

Play defense. Lord, kicking your field goals is like eating your vegetables. I know it's painful. I know you don't want to eat your vegetables. You live a little longer. What are you doing? What are you doing? Average NFL team scores 21.7.

points. That's very good comparison, the vegetables and the field goals. Come on. God, this league's about winning games, not proving a point. If you're in Philadelphia, you drive against that defense, that defense is good all the way down the field. You get a field goal. You won. What's the old Wall Street saying? Pigs get fed hogs get slaughtered. You get a field goal out of Philadelphia opening drive of the year. You should be more than satisfied. Stop trying to prove a point. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app.

You know, these pro leagues, way too often, coddle officials. Baseball coddles its umpires. They don't want to embarrass them. In the NFL, you know, they don't want to overturn calls. They don't want to... So the NFL's new thing on replay with catches is,

you know, we want to get it right, but we're going to try not to overturn them. We're going to back the refs more. Irrelevant. If a guy stinks, get fire the ref. They're not even full time. They're part-time. Isn't that the exact point of replay? It litigates the exact point of the replay is to make sure that they got it right. To me, it's so simple. Get it right. But if it's fuzzy, ambiguous, I can't tell. Give them a catch. Because the NFL wants more catches. I want more catches. You play fantasy football, you want more catches.

So my theory on this, it's almost like marriage. Unless my wife is crazy wrong, I always side with agreeing with her. Makes her feel better, better marriage. Now, if she's crazy, I'm going to jump out of a plane with no parachute.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, crazy. But everything else, just side with her. Lean toward, it's better if I agree. Better marriage. In the NFL, got to get it right. But if it's really go either way, reward the fans, fantasy football, reward the player, reward the offense with a catch. Last night, what are you doing with Julio Jones? Come on, you can't tell, give him a catch.

The NFL, and leagues do this. The NFL, they want to get it right too. But their priority after getting it right is we want to back the refs. No. Fans don't care about refs. Fans don't get rewarded by backing the refs. They don't get rewarded. Fans get rewarded.

Fantasy football is big in the NFL. Fans get rewarded with catches. Fans like catches. Those are your customers. So get it right. Don't give a guy a catch if you doesn't have one clearly on the replay. But if it's up in the air, you go with a catch. I don't care about the refs.

I don't care if you expose the refs. Who wins there? You gave a crappy ref a break. The job for a league is get rid of bad officials. You know, the NBA doesn't maybe it's officials. For a while, the NBA, if a ref made a mistake in the last two minutes, they'd come out the next day and have a press release, writing exactly what the refereff did wrong,

which I didn't love that because I think basketball is the hardest sport to officiate because virtually everything's subjective. We're in the NFL, there's a lot of definitive calls, off sides, motion. You know, pass interference tends to be in the NFL. Yeah, very, you know, subjective. Go either way. Lordy. You know, do we have the sound of that, Julio Jones catch?

Blazing five top of the hour. Here it is. Here it is. Three down to field. But he's out of bounds. Well, he caught it, but when did possession take place? Double move here. No possession, no possession, no possession, no possession.

Was there possession? That pinned against his shoulder. I don't think he was out at that point. This is close. So Dan Quinn, challenging, worthwhile here because that's a big game. review the ruling on the field stands as called taking a complete pass wow a big break for the eagles yeah you only in 170 yards i could see why you'd question him just give him the catch it's a go either way it's the best player on the football field somebody's got hulio jones and their fantasy team just

give him the catch you can't tell don't back your that was backing your refs that's all that was That was backing your refs. Don't back refs. Back them out of the job if they're not very good. That's a catch. That's what everybody wants. More of that. Julio Jones, if it's fuzzy with Julio, I'll give him the catch.

He was the best player on the field by a long shot last night. Here's the other thing. Big win last night, blazing five top of the hour. We got Joe Thomas, Cleveland Browns. We got good stuff today. Author of a brand new football book that's outrageously funny. I've just started reading it. got to give Philadelphia coaches credit for that.

The Philadelphia Eagles recognize what Nick Foles is. Everybody's high and low on Nick Foles. You know what Nick Foles is? Good game, bad game, good, bad game, good, really good, bad. His last seven games, here's what Nick Foles is. Go look at the stats yourself. I won't bore you with him. Good, awful.

Oh, horrible. Okay, good, good. Terrible. He was terrible last night. He was mostly terrible last night. that's what backup quarterbacks do. That's what backup quarterbacks are. First game he played last year with Doug Peterson, that was good.

Then he was bad. Then he was awful. Then it was okay. Then it was good. Then it was good. And it was awful last night. And the Philadelphia coaches recognize that. They're trying to create a running game last night.

They're not putting him in bad situations. Tony Dungey talked about this last night. What Doug Peterson does with quarterbacks why quarterbacks like Doug Peterson so much. He was going through the wristbands and letting Nick Foles make the wristband up. He said, here are the plays I'm thinking in this situation. Which one do you like best? Nick would line him up on the wristband one through 10.

Here's the next situation. So Doug is calling the plays, but he knows what Nick Foles likes and what he wants in each situation. That kind of rapport, that's what sets him apart. His quarterbacks love him and they trust them. So what Doug Peterson's doing is he recognizes what Nick Foles is, a great backup quarterback, who can play great. Tim Tebow won six straight games. He's a backup quarterback.

How do I know? Last seven games. That's with Philadelphia's personnel and coaching. Good. Awful. Terrible. Good. Really good.

Wow. Oh. That's a backup quarterback. That's a backup quarterback. That's a backup quarterback stat line. You don't get that with Brady, Breeze, Big Ben. Even Matt Ryan, who I'm critical of, not a lot of stinkers. Not a lot of stinkers for Matt Ryan.

A lot of solid, good, occasionally, really good. And for the record, this is why Nick Foles stayed. Nick Foles could have started right now for the Buffalo Bills. He could be starting for the Buffalo Bills right now. And Nick Foles also, like Doug Peterson, knows who Nick Foles is. That's good coaching.

Now, I'll say this. And Doug Peterson's an offensive guy. He gets offense. He was a quarterback, right? For the Packers. Dan Quinn's a defensive coach for Atlanta. He doesn't know quarterbacks as well. He doesn't have a feel for it.

Now he's got Sark, who was a quarterback in college, but Atlanta's trying, they're doing the opposite. They're trying to make Matt Ryan something he's not. This is why Atlanta struggles in the red zone. Because Matt Ryan, in the red zone, a quarterback that can run, Cam, Wence,

Marioada, you guys that can run a little bit, you can use that running to score in the red zone. Or you got a cannon, Aaron Rogers. You know, you just have a, you have a, you know, Matt Stafford, Flacco, you got a cannon in the red zone. You can squeeze the ball into tiny spots. Matt Ryan doesn't have either.

There's a reason Atlanta does almost everything well except Red Zone because her quarterback isn't athletic enough like a cam to run in, not athletic enough like an Andrew Luck to run in. Sam Darnold, you'll see him on Monday night. He can do some running in the red zone. Aaron Rogers can run around a little bit. Matt's not going to give you that. And Matt also doesn't have the kind of cannon,

but he can squeeze a ball into a keyhole. He didn't have that either. Atlanta coaches, though, no, no, no, forget the field goal. Go for it on fourth. Go for it on fourth. No, take the field goals. Maddie is money 20 to 20. 20-yard line to 20-yard line.

Terrific. Give him a little time. Set up, throw, platform, ready to go. Great. But you're trying to make him what he's not. He's not going to squeeze it, and he's not going to run it, and take some field goals. Especially against Philadelphia. What are you doing?

What's up, everybody? John Middlecock from the Three and Out podcast, brought to you live by Colin Coward's Podcast Network. Big show this week. Obviously, diving right into the Kaleel Mack trade, talking about college football rankings, and how on God's Green Earth does Lamar Jackson get? beat out by Robert Griffin to the 30. If you like football, if you like Colin, you'll like my show because I'm talking a ton of it. Subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast.

Three and out with John Middlecock. He played 11 seasons. Ten of them, he was an all pro, a pro bowler. He never missed a game in his first decade in the league. He played in 10,363 consecutive snaps as a left tackle and protected 29 different brown quarterbacks. I'm not making that up. It says it right here on the sheet.

his name is Joe Thomas. He joins us via the Towered Global Satellite Network. Joe, what makes you really interesting to me, you're a smart, thoughtful guy, and you're going to be a first ballot hall of famer. You are a high functioning person who worked in an incredibly dysfunctional decade for the Cleveland Browns. How did you overcome it? How were you, obviously, talent to big component of it? But were there times somebody as good as you was even? worn down by the constant change.

Yeah, you definitely get worn down over time with all that losing. But I think it's important when you decide to be a professional to be able to compartmentalize and say, this is my job. This is what I'm asked to do. It doesn't matter what the record is. It doesn't matter what the scoreboard says. I have to do my job. And I have to emotionally detach myself from what's happening from a winning and losing standpoint

because that would negatively affect what I'm doing on that. the field. And if you're able to do that, then you can still perform at a high level in spite of all that losing. Do you miss Steelers, Ravens, these battles where you are playing great all-time pass rushers? Is there part of you? You're not that far removed from it that you do miss this Sunday. Oh, absolutely. You're going to miss those battles, those matchups because, you know, going against a guy like Terrell Suggs and James Harrison on a Sunday, those are the things that you get nervous for all week. And then you go out and when you have that great performance and you do your job against those guys, there's this amazing sense of relief and happiness that you feel that you

just don't get anywhere else. And so certainly I'm definitely going to miss those one-on-one battles, those great matchups against the Ravens and the Steelers twice a year. But my body's not going to miss it, man. I would still be playing on Sundays if I could if my body was willing. But unfortunately, you get to a point when the arthritis just builds up so much that you just don't have anything left in the tank. One of the reasons I've questioned Baker Mayfield, because I've said, listen, to overcome some of the dysfunction in Cleveland, and I don't think all of it's gone, you need to be an Lway, a luck, a cam, kind of a wince. I think Baker's going to work in this league. Can he overcome? I mean, he's a two-time walk-on, a little small, not a huge arm. What is your guess? I mean,

we all want to be positive. We don't want to see anybody fail. We know he's going to be the quarterback eventually. Do you have some concerns, though, that you have to almost be super Superman sometimes to overcome Cleveland. Well, I think you made a good point of why he can overcome is because he has done it at every step, every stage in his life. And so this is, yeah, this is a bigger step. This is the biggest stage in football in our game. But I think having the experience have done it in the past, he's got a great opportunity to do it again. But it's not going to be easy.

And like he said, he's not the tallest guy. He doesn't have the skill set that maybe a Cam Newton does. but there's guys in this league from top to bottom at that quarterback position that have overcome some of physical limitations. And all you have to do is look down in New Orleans that the team that I think is going to win the Super Bowl and Drew Breeze with the New Orleans Saints. By the way, you pick them to win the Super Bowl. New England's everybody's favorite every year. I like Pittsburgh this year. Now, you have Pittsburgh's a highly emotional franchise.

And then you have this almost academic covert operation in New England. having faced both. Tell me the difference between face and the Steelers on Sunday and the Patriots. Well, it's going to be totally different. The Patriots are going to play a game plan that specifically attacks the things that you don't do very well. And they might completely throw out their game plan from weeks past.

They might throw out their entire playbook and come up with a completely new defense for what you're going to see. And that's what makes them really difficult. Whereas when you play the Steelers, you know what you're going to get. They're going to run the same offense and the same defense that they've been running for probably 20 years. Now, they're really good at it because they've got so many years of experience doing it. They've got so many good players, but you know what you're going to get from them and it's going to be a good on good battle. When you go into the Patriots,

though, it's totally a mystery. They could show up in a 5-3 on the goal line. They could show up in a 6-2 on the goal line. They could run a 3-4 on defense. They could run a 4-3. You don't know what they're going to do because they're willing to take those risks and those chances because it's paid off throughout Bill Belichick's career. I'm watching that game last night, Eagles Falcons. And when I think of Atlanta, I think of skilled, fast, finesse. When I think of Philadelphia, they're one of the few teams in the NFL. I can't take my eyes off their line play.

They are so, that's why they're so good in the red zone. And I felt like juxtaposed last night, you had these two different cultures, the fast, slick, finesse falcons. And then you have this tough, gritty Philadelphia, blue-collar, tough guy, Eagle team. That's how I saw it. When you watched that game last night, are you, your thoughts about what Philadelphia has created in the trenches on both sides? It's pretty impressive. I think it all starts really with the Eagles defensive line.

I mean, they've got all pros all across the board, but it's how they play. They pin their ears back and they get after the ball carrier, whether that be the quarterback or the running back on every single play. And then, of course, you look at their offensive line. I'm not sure they have any one thing that they're really well known for except for being. big, tough, strong, great players. And when you have two bookends like Lane Johnson and Jason Peters at left tackle and right tackle, that's a great place to start. And then you've got a great center in Jason Kelsey.

It's a pretty difficult line to beat, especially in this day and age of poor offensive line play. I mean, everything is built up front for those guys. By the way, 29 quarterbacks you protected. Is there one guy? If I said, who was the one guy that really had something special? but it just the dysfunction and the chaos and the coaching, it just never had a fair shot.

Was there one of these guys that you were like, you know what, that guy in a different spot would have worked? I think this may surprise some people, but I think actually Colt McCoy was a guy that I played with and now he was a rookie. He played some games as a rookie, his second year. He was the guy that I said,

you know what, if he would have been in the right situation and given the proper opportunity with the skills, skill players around him, that you need to succeed as a quarterback, especially a young quarterback. I think he really could have been successful. And actually, he's had a great career in Washington as a backup.

He really still hasn't had that opportunity to take a starting role on a team. But I think if he ever does get that opportunity or if he would have gotten that opportunity, I think he could have parlayed that into a really good career as a starting quarterback. By the way, you have a podcast. It's good and it's popular called The Tomahawk Show

with former teammate Andrew Hawkins. It's funny, sometimes unindicated. intentionally. There are NFL stories. You guys are obviously good friends. Again, the podcast is called The Tomahawk Show. Now, your wife is expecting any day. You could get a call in five minutes. I have been told she's a few days overdue. Is that right? Yeah, she was due last Friday. So she's like eight days overdue. And actually, we went to the doctor today like an hour before I came on your show and they sent this home and said, All right. Come back if the contractions get a little closer.

So I'm definitely on watch right now. Okay. Joe, you're great. Good luck to you. The Tomahawk show, the podcast with Joe Thomas. Congratulations on an absolutely remarkable Hall of Fame first ballot career. Thanks for coming on. Thank you for having me, Colin. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. After almost three hours, Colin apparently hasn't gotten to the point yet.

Quit holding out on us, cowherd. It's the best for last. New York Times bestselling author, several of the most readable, consumable football books in my lifetime. Boys will be boys. The Gunslinger, his name is Jeff Perlman. He has written a new book about the USFL that is absolutely fascinating. If you are too young or in your 20s, you just don't understand the USFL.

I know you're not going to make it as much as you would make in a cowboy book or a FAR book. This is a labor of love for you. It is a fascinating league. Let's start with this. The best player ever in the USFL was... I'm going to go Reggie White. If you're taking all-time career, Reggie White. But you had Jim Kelly.

You had Steve Young. You had Sam Mills. So people understand this. How many players that played in the USFL went to the NFL and were good players? Well, you had more than 200 players overall who went to the NFL from the USFL. I just want to say Gil Brandt from the Cowboys at the time said there's no more than 12. guys who are going to make the NFL out of the USFL. That's what he said. How many pro bowlers? Pro bowlers, I don't know, four Hall of Famers.

So four guys who played in the USFL became Hall of Famers in the NFL. Now, so Steve Young was in it and Jim Kelly was in it. I don't remember the specifics, but they met in one of the wildest pro football games ever. It's the greatest game nobody ever saw. That's what Ralph Wiley at us. I caught it. It was, I don't remember the final score. They were about L.A. Coliseum, 90,000 capacity, there were maybe 6,000 fans watching this game. Jim Kelly led a comeback where they scored four touchdowns in about seven minutes in this crazy Baba.

They combined for a thousand yards passing. It was one of the greatest games ever. Steve Young and Jim Kelly still talk about it when they talk or get together. A thousand yards passing. So when you look at this league, you had some high profile stars. I remember watching it. I remember Herschel Walker. Herschel Walker, I think, didn't he have a profound game or a year?

Yeah, 1980. Nobody knows it. Herschel Walker belongs in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. I don't care what anyone says. People remember him for the Viking trade. 1985, USFL still holds the single-season rushing record, 24-11 yards. In a single season. In a single season.

2400 rushing yards. Yes. He was amazing in the USFL. Can I YouTube and watch the stuff? Yes. Charlie Steiner's doing the call. He was the voice of the generals. Charlie Steiner was a voice of the generals.

Oh my God. So you're one of these guys. You'll interview 800 people. Yeah. Okay. So this league had two, I contend it's the greatest league in America, Sports League, that didn't work. The quality of offense,

many things were adopted by the NFL. Oh, yeah. The run and shoot came out of Jim Kelly and the Houston Gammers. Mouse Davis was a coach. They got Jim, Let me tell you how they got Jim Kelly real quick. He was in the office of the Buffalo Bills about to sign with the bills. He did not want to go there.

He told them not to draft. Because he played at Miami. And he's in the office, really glum about it all. And George Allen, who is the general, Bruce Allen, who is a general manager at each 25 of the Chicago Blitz, lies, calls the bill's offices because he found out Kelly was there and says he is a relative of Kelly's agent and there's a family emergency. Gets him on the phone and says, I know Jim doesn't want to play there. You know Jim doesn't want to play there. get out of there and we'll take care of him. He leaves.

He goes and meets with Jerry Argevitz, owner of the Houston Gamblers, and signs with the gamblers two weeks later. The bills were furious. The USFL was stealing star players. Now, the reason this league, now here's what I remember, Jeff Perlman joining us. The new book is called, I got it here,

football for a buck, the crazy rise and crazier demise of the USFL. Here's what I remember. Because I remember watching it. I was an NFL college fan, but I remember watching the games. It was on two networks. What I remember was they expanded really fast because I remember liking the helmets and liking the uniforms.

And I was like, ooh, this league's kind of fun. And all of a sudden, there were a bunch of new teams. Is that why they folded? It's one of the big reasons. They panicked because each team was going to have to pay $6 million into the pot. But all of a sudden, you have the Oklahoma outlaws and the San Antonio gunslingers with owners who can't afford the bills. Okay. The gunslingers, their best player was their course.

quarterback, Rick New Heisel. Yes. And yeah, from UCLA. Yes. And New Heizel tells a lot of great stories about the checks starting to bounce so much that after practices on payday, the players would rush to freer Texas to cash their checks because only the first five or six for cash and the rest were bounce. I worked at a broadcasting company like that one.

Jeff Perlman joining us. Now, there's a lot of Trump in the book, obviously, because he was, you know, this brash New York real estate guy, a younger Donald Trump. Trump, and he always wanted to own an NFL team, and I think he kind of saw this as his gateway into it. First of all, and I haven't gotten through the book yet, he almost owned the Dallas Cowboys. He didn't. He didn't.

Factually untrue. Okay. So it was always Jerry's team? Yes. Okay. Give me the story on, because there's always been this Trump NFL, USL, there's a sense that, in fact, I've seen documentaries on this, that Trump kind of ended up killing the, he sued the NFL. Tell me the story.

about the most fascinating Trump story about the USFL. All right. Well, when he bought, he bought in after one season. Okay. So he bought the team for the 84 season. Okay. And in the lead up, this is great. I love the USFL. The USFL is awesome. As soon as he is the owner of the generals, as soon as he's the owner. First League meeting. We need to move to fall. We need to move to fall now. We need to take on the NFL directly. During this time, he has a secret meeting at the Pierre Hotel in New York with Pete Roselle, NFL commissioner at the time. He pays for the room. Trump does. And he says to Rosel, I don't really give a crap about this league.

I want an NFL team. What do I have to do to get in? And Pete Roselle says to him very bluntly, as long as I'm the commissioner of the NFL, as long as my family is affiliated with this league, you will never have a team in the NFL. Says that very bluntly to him. Trump, undeterred as he often is,

decides USFL needs to sue the NFL for an antitrust violation. And we're going to move to fall and take him on directly. He leads a lawsuit. People are begging him, do not file this lawsuit in New York. You're not going to win in New York. Jerry Argovitz,

the gambler, says Texas, which do it in Texas. We'll have a sympathetic judge. No, no, no. They do this lawsuit. Trump is the main witness for the USFL. I interviewed one of the jurors. She said he was the most disastrous witness

you could ever have a man, just bragged, he made the USFL the bully when the NFL was supposed to be the bully. And the jury comes back and what the jury decides is, you know what? The NFL is violating the is dominating TV.

They do have a monopoly on TV. The USVL is correct. However, the USFL is its own worst enemy and the number one guy who's screwing this up is Donald Trump. And she actually told me Donald Trump was on the witness stand, staring her down, trying to intimidate her. She remembered this vividly.

She painted the scene. So when you want to talk about why they won $1, they're given a dollar, it's because, and the best thing is Donald Trump is sitting in the courtroom and the owner of the New York Giants takes out his wallet, takes out a dollar bill, and hands it to him when it's announced. Wow. By the way, the league, I do remember the, if it's in your book, the USFL wasn't perfect. There was a steroid issue, wasn't there?

There were so many drugs in the US of that. Good, but I mean drugs? I mean, the Houston Gambler's strength coach was a guy named Bob Young, who said to his offensive lineman, if you don't use steroids, you're not playing for me. Richard Johnson, the great wide receiver for the Houston Gamblers who later played for Detroit, would smoke a joint before every game. One of my favorite stories, over quick, Vince Corville was a teammate,

and Richard Johnson was great, Vince Corville, not great. Vince Corville told me one game he decided to be like Richard Johnson. He was going to smoke a joint before a game. He'd never smoke pop before. He smokes a joint. He goes out on the field. He's like, why are my hand so big? Why is everyone looking at me?

He said he had the worst game of his life and never did it again. There was also a player for this league that chased an owner around with a bat and threatened him. Greg Fields, big paper. He was a defensive lineman out of gambling. And he was good. First, he punched his coach. John Hedle was a head coach of the Express. John Hedle?

He was a coach of the Express. He punched him? John Hedle called him in and cut him. And Greg Fields punched him. This is the best thing. ever. The Express hired this guy Nelson Mercado, Liberace's bodyguard, to be the bodyguard

for the Express because Greg Fields allegedly was calling in death threats to the coach. So this guy Nelson Mercado got a staff of five other guys with him and made their life following Greg Fields around, the defensive lineman because he punched the coach. It was in the newspapers, it was everywhere, and in a great USFL moment, the San Antonio gunslingers

need a defensive line help. So they sign Greg Fields. They sign him. They sign him. He goes to San Antonio. San Antonio's owner stops paying the players. So Greg Fields one day follows him home with a baseball bat. To his mansion. To his mansion. To his mansion. He lived at a place called the Magic Kingdom with wild animals exported from different African nations. I swear to God. Greg Fields has a baseball bat in his trunk. He gets out of the car. He walks up to the owner, Clint Mangus. He says, I see where you live. You better pay me. Clint Mangus goes, wait here. He goes inside. He comes back out with a paper bag through $10,000 in the

cash and says, are we good? And Greg Field says, we're good. And he's, and he's, and he's, leaves. And did Greg Fields ever play again? No, never, but me and my son went to see him at a mall in Sacramento at a food court. And was he nice? Awesome. He was awesome. The best. So this, the book is called Football for a Buck, the crazy rise and crazier demise of the USFL by Jeff Perlma, who's written several incredible books. I really do, you know, I mean, the NFL, baseball, the NBA, but we see the big three's been created and they were getting 17,000. Do you think in the end the USFL would be good for the NFL? It'd be like a farm system, right?

If a kid didn't want to play college maybe or something? I think if the USFL was willing to be that, the USFL wasn't willing to be that. That's the problem. You're right. If they stayed in the spring, you may have a leak. By the way, you've got other books that you can still purchase. Boys will be boys.

The Dallas Cowboys, the Troy Aikmaneers is an all-timer. Gunslinger is a fantastic book. You exposed a lot of stuff with Aaron Rogers, who, by the way, I love. He reminds me of Kevin Durant. he's kind of got rabbit ears a little bit. He's got rabbit ears. You also wrote Showtime.

Of all the books you've written, was this the most fun because it was the goofiest? Easily. And it was the one I dreamed of writing from the time I was in the, as a boy, Mailpack, New York. I remember the first time I saw Herschel walker on the cover at the Mailpack Public Library. And he's on the cover in his general's uniform. It says hitting pay dirt.

Because Herschel Walker, he was a junior and the NFL wouldn't touch him. And the USFL signed him after he begged to go to the USFL. And the funny thing is, as soon as the NFL found out, the Dallas Cowboys came secretly along and said, we'll offer you this money too. And Herschel Walker, to his credit,

he said, I already agreed to sign with this new league. I'm not going to do it. And he went to the generals. Yeah. Herschel's an interesting cat. A little quirky. A little. He once told me he went winks without eating.

It's probably true. He would say that. He goes, I do push up, sit-ups, have a smoothie once a day I don't eat. Yeah. Yeah, one smoothie a day, John, you were with me at the other place. One smoothie a day. Another great book, Barry Bonds, in the making of an anti-hero, Love Me, Hate Me, by Jeff Pearlman.

books, one of my favorite things is to go and read old books. Mark Kregel's got a book about Pete Marevich. So good. Oh my God, it's so good. It's great seeing you. Thank you. By the book, a fascinating reek, the corkiest, greatest league in American sports that did not make it. We're done.

We'll see you Monday. Enjoy football. It's the herd. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

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