The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Best of The Herd: 12/18/2019

Episode Date: December 18, 2019

The NFL Pro Bowl rosters prove to Colin that Russell Wilson is the MVP not Lamar Jackson. He thinks Odell Beckham Jr. should demand a trade out of Cleveland and explains why. LeBron James and Doc Rivers have thrown some jabs at each other and Colin explains why both of them can be right. Plus, Colin nerds out talking to Jim Nagy, Executive Director of the Senior Bowl and former scout with the Patriots and Seahawks as they discuss scouting stories and if Joe Borrow is a legitimate top QB prospect. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. you just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to her. He's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball.

So listen to Point Game on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to the best of Heard Podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday. From 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRadio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by search watching herd.

This is the best of the herd with Colin Cowherg on Fox Sports Radio. Oh, on a Wednesday. What a beautiful job by Fox Sports. Look at our studio. Live in Los Angeles, this is The Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, we're on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. If you are driving around and you're listening to us on our 300 radio affiliates and

XM Serious and a podcast. all that stuff. They have gone out beyond above and beyond the call of duty. Our Christmas set is absolutely remarkable. Tip of the cap to the production people who did this. They always do a great job decorating for the holidays. It's very, very charming. It'll put you in the holiday spirit. This puts me in the hall. I got my sweater on today. So I... Well, it's very cold in here, too. So it's literally like a little winter wonderland in here today. Well, it's great. That's the voice of Joy Taylor. it's great to have you in. So I don't know if you noticed yesterday.

I'm not really an awards guy, but the Pro Bowl selections came out, and that's, you know, we find out how good all these players are, and Baltimore had 12. Boy, Lamar Jackson, oh, my. He has 11 teammates who are unbelievable. He's got a Pro Bowl running back

and a Pro Bowl right guard, and a Pro Bowl tied in, and a Pro Bowl fullback, and a Pro Bowl left tackle, and a Pro Bowl kicker, a bunch of Pro Bowl defensive. defensive players. And then the Pro Bowl votes came out for Seattle's Russell Wilson. And Russell Wilson, he has won. And he doesn't get a throw to him or hand to him and he doesn't

protect him. It's Bobby Wagner. He's on the other side of the ball. They're probably not even barely in the same locker room. That's interesting. Most valuable player. Now, I've always felt when they created the award, a bunch of people sat in a room and the word valuable was important. The word most wasn't and the word player wasn't because there's a lot of awards. The key word when all these people, men, women sat in a room was, what's the key word in the mirror? Valuable. It's not most improved player. We've got that.

It's the most valuable player. So what does value mean? Value to me and I take pride in this and what I do. the inability to replace somebody easily. It does not MPP, most productive player, not most talented player. It's not what the awards are. It's most valuable player. Howard Stern to FM radio.

He left, dried up. How's Cleveland been since LeBron left? Dried up. How are the Niners for about four years after Harbaugh left? Embarrassing. Those were Howard Stern, LeBron, Jim Harbaugh on the NFL. Unbelievably valuable. Russell Wilson, one pro bowler to support him.

Lamar Jackson's got 11 guys, six offense and special teams to help him. Now, I get that Lamar's a better story, and writers who vote on this stuff love stories. He's fun, he's exciting, he's unique, he's fresh, he's new, he's highly productive. but the word is valuable. Baltimore without Lamar Jackson, there's a lot of quarterbacks you could put in there, and it's pretty talented team. He makes them better.

I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, that's not the argument. Seattle's a bad football team without Russell Wilson. And they are now the number one seat in the tougher conference. The inability to replace you. Who in God's name in the NFL, Aaron Rogers has, we always argue that he, It doesn't have any talent.

Aaron Rogers has more. Kansas City's got six. Baltimore's got 12. Folks, what Russell Wilson's doing with the 31st best pass blocking line, below average special teams, defense is 27th in total yards, 29th against the pass. I'm outside of a couple of decent running backs. Guys got nothing to work with.

There's a huge difference between talented. J.J. Watt to me was talented. But the Texans are in first place again without. him. Blake Griffin and me was super talented. Clippers are better since he left. Pistons still stink with him or without him. There's a lot of athletes that are talented and there's a lot of athletes that are productive, but how valuable are they? I'm not saying Lamar isn't valuable, but it's called most valuable player. I don't think there's anybody close. In fact, there's three players in the last decade in the NFL that to me are just more valuable than that. You

than any player. And it's not Tom Brady, because they won 11 games when he left. Andrew Luck, Aaron Rogers, and Russell Wilson. I mean, what's the Seattle Seahawks franchise story without Russell Wilson? I'm from there.

You know what it is? A lot of losses. And, man, remember Steve Largent? That's the franchise. That's the franchise. No, it's not Pete Carroll. Because Pete Carroll was there for two years and went 7 to 9 and 7 and 9.

Well, Richard Sherman. He left and they're the number one seed in the NFC. The word valuable is the word everybody struggled in the room to come up with when they name this award. Because they have most blank player in other sports and there's other words. Valuable? One pro bowler? Others guys got left tackle, left guard, kicker, running back, full back.

And by the way, although not pro bowlers, way better receivers. Just saying, I know he's not the cool story. Do you know Russell Wilson? Here's a pretty good story for you. Is the second leading passer rating guy in league history? Never received one MVP vote. Eight years. I think that is a pretty cool story.

All right, let's shift to this. report. Steelers were among teams. Odell Beckham encouraged the trade for him. Ooh, that stings a little. So now the four teams that have been rumored

to be after him or he's been rumored to be interested in are New England, Pittsburgh, Seattle, and the 49ers. What are they all have in common? Great coaches and they win. Odell Beckham, folks, wants to win. He didn't put the four biggest markets. He didn't

put the four teams with the most cap room. Odell Beckham's like, I want to win. I want to win games, so I want to go to New England. By the way, New England doesn't pamper stars. Odell's not looking to be pampered. He's not, Pittsburgh's defined by Big Ben. He doesn't even want to be the biggest star on the team.

Seattle? Way up there. Way up there in the Pacific Northwest. It didn't have to be in Paris, New York, or L.A. and the 49ers. I mean, they don't even have their stadium in San Francisco. All four have in common wants to win. Not a drug guy, not a crazy in-season guy. He doesn't fight with coaches.

He can get in arguments with it. He's, I want to win guy. He's Randy Moss. Hey, a little needy. A little needy. He wants a little attention. I get that. I'm Odell Beckham Jr. today.

I demand a trade. And here's why, because Odell Beckham Jr. is the only NBA player, at least the first, in the NFL. He's global. Most NFL players go to American colleges. They're domestic. NBA guys are global. They come from Germany.

They come from France. They come from Spain. They come from out of the country. NBA is a global league. Mostly the NFL is a domestic league. OBJ is a global star. He has double the Instagram followers, double of even guys like Tom Brady,

Aaron Rogers, Patrick Mahomes. He's also the first NFL. player to get an NBA sort of shoe deal. He's the NFL's first, first NBA player. And what do NBA players do? They're like, I'll take a little less money. I don't go win. Do you think Anthony Davis is happier now that he's taking a little less in

in L.A. or making more money and losing in New Orleans? Think Paul George now is a little happier in Los Angeles? Yeah, AD got a couple of weeks of pushback. And Paul George, boo! I can't believe you're not. left is boo, but nobody cares because we embrace NBA stars, the Miami Hedels, that take a little less because they want to win games. Kevin Durant, okay, I'll take less.

You can have Andre Aguadol and Golden State. We don't really punish athletes when they take less money when they want to win games. In fact, I think we hate them more when they just go for the money and don't care about winning. That, to me, is ludicrous. I mean, I get wanting money, but once you get up to $300 million, What's it matter? You want to win games? You want to sit home and watch playoff games.

Odell Beckham has told you the four rumored teams, Seattle 49ers, New England, Pittsburgh. He wants to win. He's not asking to go to media centers. He's not asking to go be the highest pay. He didn't ask for the guys with the most cap space. He's just looking for guys well-coached win games. Mike Tomlin, Pete Carroll, Kyle Shanahan. That's what he's asking for.

Consistent winners. Cleveland doesn't. And, you know, so when I look at this, I don't think even Cleveland would hold it against him. I think he should demand a trade. I think he should go to privately go to the general manager John Dorsey. And if John says no, then go public and be a little uncomfortable. Cleveland needs offensive line help, not weapons help.

So Cleveland can get offensive line help. They're not going to find it all in the draft. And they need three new offensive linemen, maybe. So if it's not going to hurt his brand, it's kind of on-brand. He's an NBA guy. He's a star. We get that stars move. This is on-brand for him.

It's not off-brand. This would be off-brand for, you know, wholesome Tom Brady or wholesome Eli Manning. This is on-brand for him. It would be weird for Drew Brees to demand a trade because we link him to New Orleans. And Russell Wilson to Seattle. Outside of Cleveland, everybody would get it. And Cleveland's been so bad for years that we don't really hold it against people. Even LeBron for leaving.

We really don't. Cleveland did. We really don't. OBJ, you're the only NBA player in the NFL. Demand a trade, privately first, public if they say no, it's time. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsClice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves.

Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month,

I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it

and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys?

This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliver Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast point game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves,

I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series. because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense.

And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball, like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick.

Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In Los Angeles right now, the two best teams in the NBA are the Lakers right now are the best team. The Clippers are building sort of for the championship, resting some of their stars.

It's called Load Management, primarily Kauai Leonard. So LeBron took a not-so-thinly-veiled shot the other night at Kauai Leonard and the Clippers and load management. Here it is. If I'm healthy, I play. That's just going to be your approach all year. I mean, that should be the approach. I mean, I don't know how many games I got left in my career.

I don't know how many kids that may show up to a game that are there to come see me play. And if I sit out then, what, you know, that's my obligation. My obligation is to play, play for my teammates. And if I'm healthy, then I'm a play. If coach sits me out, then I'm not healthy. And it's just that simple. I prefer that, of course, from my stars.

LeBron, a little bit of a hypocrite. He's taking some nights off. But I've never thought of LeBron's load management guy. I mean, he did start the trend. I think he took a night off and he called it load management, but I've always thought he's a guy that puts in the work. And then there's the clippers with Kauai Leonard, who clearly has a strategy and Doc Rivers fired back at the Lakers and LeBron.

It's our philosophy. I don't know what theirs are. You know, I think theirs is whatever LeBron says it is, to be honest. That makes a lot of sense to me. But, no, I think I like what we're doing. I think it's the smart thing to do. And, you know, who knows? we'll see it to hand.

Let me just say this. Load management works not only for Kauai, it works for the Clippers. You can go right now and get a Clipper ticket for $12. The Clippers have been the exciting regular season team. It was called Lob City, and nobody cares. They got rid of all of them. They didn't take over Los Angeles.

And when they had Lob City, they didn't have two NFL teams in town. They didn't have that new soccer team. They've been the regular season team that everybody talks about. And it didn't move the needle, It didn't get him a new arena. It didn't get him talked about more than the losing Lakers at the time.

A seismic shift is needed in Los Angeles. When you share an arena with the number one brand in a sport, you don't make up ground by beating them in November. You gain ground by beating them in the Western Conference finals and then winning a championship. So the Clippers are all in creating a seismic brand shift. the kind that steps on the Lakers in the conference finals. The team is deeper and more rested. And then they win a championship and they can get an arena out of it.

They're not getting an arena out of it, winning more games in the regular season. But this is where the Lakers are different. The Lakers have more title 16 than the Clippers have playoff appearances, 14. The Clippers charge 12 bucks for a good ticket. The Lakers charge 1,200. They have to validate that to the fans who come. They can't be all about the championship, although privately it's all about the championship. People pay a lot of money and they want to be entertained and people save all year in Los Angeles

in towns outside of the city to take their kids to one game because that's how expensive it is. And it matters when you're the number one brand in the NBA on a nightly basis trying to deliver for the consumer. The Clippers give tickets away. Even this year you can get them pretty cheap. And there, in a distracted sports market, the Lakers are the number one brand. It is a massive business. Titles are great, and they want them more than anything. But there is a burden of responsibility to your consumers.

That's why they re-signed Kobe for two years. Remember that? And it didn't help their young players. Because Kobe got people excited, and you left driving home after watching the Lakers. lose by four, but Kobe had 38, and you felt good about the experience. The Lakers are a concert. The Clippers are a recital. So the Clippers, the load management thing, the only way to create a seismic shift in Los Angeles,

where the Lakers are the number one brand, and the Dodgers are number two, and USC when they're hot as number three, and the Rams are going to be number four, and the Clippers are somewhere in the five, six. How do the clippers get to two? They'll never overtake the Lakers, but how do they get to two? or maybe 2A behind the Dodgers, a championship. So they're all in for that. They're all in for that.

Load management works for them. They're two different business models. And for the Lakers, you drive, you pay, you want to see your stars. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app. Nick Wright, first things first, coward global satellite network. I don't know if you noticed that Tom Brady had no pro bowlers, no pro bowlers on the offense. What did you make of that, Nick Wright? It's tough for skill position guys to make pro bowls when the quarterback's dropping balls at your feet and sailing them over your head.

You got to really feel in this offense for Lacos and for Mohammed Sunu that they could have maybe gotten there with a better opportunity. Sony Michelle maybe feels like he could have made it if defenses had to. to respect the passing game at all and weren't stacking the box. So yeah, I did notice it. And I feel bad for those guys that are having to deal with a 42-year-old quarterback who is not allowing them to exhibit their obvious greatness, Colin Cowher. I want to go to a Drew Breeze takeaway, because I've said this before. I call it the great eight, eight greatest quarterbacks I've ever seen play. I put Breeze in there two years ago and people said, you're out of your mind. And I just said, it's not always just about, you know, the,

the MVP awards. The it, the leadership, blah, blah, blah. I don't have Aaron Rogers or Fav in there, though they're very close. I don't have Steve Young in there. I don't have Russell Wilson, though Russell's close. But you did something the other day with quarterback tears, and you got some pushback on the breeze conversation. Fire away. Yep.

So, yeah, I'm just going to do from the merger to now, I'm certain Johnny Unitas was a great player, but I don't know that anyone actually ever saw him play. so I'm going to set those the Sammy balls aside. There's three tiers. There's the undisputed goat Tom Brady. Then in the next tier, there is Peyton Manning, Joe Montana, and I would include John Elway. Some people would say Marino should be ahead of Elway.

I can't get over the five Super Bowl appearances with Elway. And then there's the tier Drew Breezes in, along with Farr, Rogers, and Marino. And the reason I wanted to make this point is I knew there was going to be some momentum towards, well, actually, was Drew Breeze better than Peyton Manning? They played in the Super Bowl and Breeze won. Breeze now has all of the records. And that makes a lot of sense, except we watched the games and there was never a period. And I love Drew, where Drew Brise was considered the best quarterback in football. There was never a moment where I would, where people would say he was better than Peyton Manning. And the analogy I used was, if you didn't ever watch

baseball and you just looked at the record books, you would say, oh, Hank Aaron might be the greatest player of all time, but people who actually watch would tell you as great as he was, he wasn't even the best player of his era. That was Willie Mays. Right. Even though Hank has everything more than Willie Mays, that's where Breezes. But one thing that I do want to say in two Breezes credit, when Peyton Manning threw his 538 touchdown pass, it was a season where he had been benched and was at the very

in. When Tom Brady throws his 539 touchdown pass, it says a 42-year-old who can't get these skill position guys in the Pro Bowl that we just discussed. Drew Breeze did it in a game where he was 29 of 30 and was perfect. So the fact that at this late in his career is playing at this high of a level is a testament to him, but nobody actually believes he was ever better than Peyton Manning, which was some of the conversation yesterday that I tried to quell a bit. Yeah, I think by the way, I think your tiers are, I don't agree necessarily with tier three, but I actually think your argument's good, smart, and the top four I think you have right.

Let's now shift gears to Baker Mayfield. Pro football focus has loved him forever. They're acknowledging now he's Dwayne Haskins. You loved him, and I said, slow down, slow down. Police video, grabbing stuff, quarterback's a grown-up position. He's too immature. Can you acknowledge today that you're a little hyper, a little on Baker, or do you still grab the, it's Freddie Kitchens fault?

Well, I think it's obviously Freddie Kitchens hasn't helped. I also think that the moment we had before the year where I had Baker ranked ahead of to Sean Watson and you asked me if I have a television, you appear to be ahead in that argument. I will concede that. However, I am a person who once upon a time bought up a bunch of blockbuster stock when it was at like 18 cents because I was like, well, how much lower can it go? And the answer was to zero and I lost all the money. But right now, I'm not saying Baker's the blockbuster stock.

What I'm saying is it's not going to get worse than this. I saw him be brilliant in Oklahoma. I saw him be excellent last year. Now, you made a very compelling case about what box does he check, and he sure seems to still think he's a better athlete than he actually is when it comes to escapeability. I think with the right coach, with the better system, he can recapture some of his rookie season. But at the moment, you appear to be closer to right than me, but I'm not yet abandoning Baker Mayfield. One more football topic. OBJ is global.

He's not domestic. Most of our football stars, even Brady, are domestic stars. NBA basketball, it's a global product. We saw the NBA China deal blow up. It's a part of the business. OBJ is the first NBA player in the NFL. He has double the Instagram followers. He spends a lot of time in Europe in the offseason.

He is a shoe deal, which just did not exist, even for Brady and Rogers and Mahomes. I think he needs to demand a trade from Cleveland. I think he's a good kid who's a least. Little needy, aren't we all at 24? He's Randy Moss. I don't have to worry about effort, quality of human being. I have to worry about that.

A little needy. Look at me a little bit. I get it. Stars are like that. But I do think he's an NBA business model. We would be okay with him moving if he went to a better team. And the four teams we've heard rumors about are all winning teams. I think he should demand to trade the John Dorsey privately.

And if not, doesn't work, go public. Anthony Davisett be a little uncomfortable for two months. What say you? Is it nuts? You know him. No, I don't think it's nuts. I don't buy the report that he was asking the Steelers to trade for him. I know they're a great franchise, but they are unsettled at quarterback and they play in really cold weather. Neither of those things seem to be super attractive to O'Dell. But O'Dell does deserve to play with a good quarterback for the first time in his career. I thought he was getting that with Baker.

He has not. So much of the sideline stuff has to do with lack of winning, not lack of touches. And the truth of the matter is, he now, as much as I love him, he's got as many great seasons, three, as he does, what the hell happens seasons? Three. He's going to be in year seven, and these careers can be shorter than we think. So if he does get moved, it is incumbent upon him to make the next next year. place work. Yeah.

Finally, I like and prefer O. LeBron's load management strategy. Thank you for asking me about this. I'm so happy you're asking me about this, but go ahead. But the clippers have been fun in the regular season and exciting, and nobody gives a rip, and we still think of them as second tier.

They're going all in a title. It's the only seismic home run they can hit the change, the paradigm in L.A., where they're just not a another team. I get what they're doing. I just don't like it. I prefer the Lakers LeBron way. Your thoughts. Well, listen, of course LeBron's right that you have a responsibility to a degree to play when you're healthy. No one is saying you got to play all 82. But load management has hurt the league because people are acting as if what Kauai is doing is standard. It's only standard for Kauai. No one else is missing anywhere close to the number of games Kauai is missing,

which is why Doc Rivers comments were so incredibly rich when he's like the Lakers do, whatever LeBron wants. You coach a team who had a player come to you and say, I will sign here if you move heaven and earth to acquire this specific player, and by the way, I'm only going to show up to work three out of four games. And they said, no problem, Mr. Leonard, what else would you like. And but there's a reason for this. And this is why it's important because the same day Doc Rivers took a shot at LeBron, Kevin Garnett was on Bill Simmons podcast and he said, oh yeah, we had LeBron shook. We, uh, what did he say? We defeated LeBron and the only reason the heat beat those Celtics is because basically the league had the fix in. We have Paul Pierce go

on television all the time and say that those, that he's a better player than LeBron, that LeBron got unfair help. We now have kids. Kevin Garnett saying the fix was in and Doc Rivers taking a shot. What do all those guys have in common? They still are not over that LeBron James ended the Big Three era in Boston and then to add salt to the wound, took Ray Allen from him as well. That's when Doc Rivers then left. That's when KG and Pierce then went to Brooklyn.

That's when it all fell apart. So as much as Doc Rivers can be respected, his commentary on LeBron James should be understood. There is a history there. and his commentary on one player controlling an organization, you've got to look in the mirror, pal, because the claw controls the clippers more than any player controls any organization in all of sports right now. I agree with that.

Nick Wright, great seeing your first things first. Have a happy holiday, buddy. You too, man. Merry Christmas to all you guys. Talk to you soon. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Eagles Dalles play this weekend. I've learned something in my years broadcasting.

The bigger the game, the more ridiculous the reaction after it, and the more ridiculous the projections before it. WIP Radio, Philadelphia, this is a sports town that thought Nick Foles was better than Carson Wentz. I'm not joking. There's no punchline. They really thought that. Nick Foles, by the way, is now carrying a clipboard for a fourth place team. Nick Foles didn't win a game this year.

Nick Foles got replaced by something called Gardner Minchew. this town thought Gardner this town thought Nick Foles was better than Carson Wentz so when Philadelphia

talks just smile there's not worth getting into an argument let them have their pale ale at at the bar

and get into fist fights so this is an organization and a fan base that just doesn't know what they're talking

about most of the time so WIP radio you call and scream a lot on that station apparently

for Nick Foles is saying this biggest game referendum game for Carson Wentz here's the

article this week referendum biggest game in his career. Really? So Carson Wentz loses. Is he not talented? Jason Garrett wins. Is he now a great coach? Dak wins. Is he an all-time great franchise top five quarterback? Dallas wins. They're eight and seven. Are they not still underachieving? What changes in this game? Nothing. This game's not a referendum for anything. It's just a game where one of these two underachieving messes make the playoffs and will be the

weakest NFC playoff team. Remember what I said several months ago these teams met and the world went crazy on it. Oh my God, this means Dallas is great. And what I said then three months ago, two months ago is what I'll say now about this game.

Philadelphia and Dallas, neither of these teams are good enough to put the other away. They've got massive secondary issues in Philadelphia. Both have brutal schedules. I think the loser of this game is fine.

I mean, as fine as somebody is in that division. That's exactly how I feel today. These are not good enough teams to separate from anybody, but they're talented enough that they can sort of mostly hang with almost anybody not named Baltimore. There is no referendum on this game. Carson Wentz got his money, has total support from the owner, absolute support from the coach and GM.

He's won games back-to-back weeks with nobody to throw to. nobody to throw to. I mean, it's remarkable. They're winning games. They beat Green Bay when they actually had some components, but they've mostly not had them all year. But the bigger the game, the more we overreact after it, and the more projection we offer before it.

This game means nothing. I mean, this is the idea that three quarters of Philadelphia thought Nick Foles, who just got beat out by Gardner Minchu, was better than Carson Wentz shows you. This happens in these cold weather cities. They like sports more than warm weather cities. And it's very obvious why. In warm weather cities, you can go outside, you don't watch as much TV, you bail on your team when they're average.

There's more stuff to do in Miami than there is in Buffalo. And in Miami, if your team's bad, you just go outside and there's cute girls, cute guys, go to bars, Port City, restaurant. Buffalo, it's minus nine in snowing. You stay inside and you watch a story about the bills. So these cold weather cities, they get their great fan bases, they love their teams, but that creates sort of a intensity and passion that borders on absurd. And Philadelphia can be just absurd when it comes to their quarterbacks where they've not had very many good ones.

In fact, you can argue they've never had a great one. Randall Cunningham, you had Jaws, you had Donovan McNabb. They're certainly all good if they had the all-time great. Not really. Carson Wentz is the most talented player they've ever had at that position in the history of the city. And an hour ago, you thought Nick Foles was better. There's no referendum on anything in this game. It's kind of amazing that Philadelphia is still hanging around despite the fact that the first month they had cluster injuries in the secondary.

The second month, they had cluster injuries on the offensive line. The third month, they had cluster injuries now in the wide receiver unit. He's throwing to tight ends and running backs you've never heard of. In fact, one of the, I was looking at this this morning. One of the winning touchdowns last couple of weeks was to Greg Ward. Two years ago, he was a quarterback for the Texans. Or no, the Houston Cougars, my bad. Wrong Houston.

Houston Cougars. He was a quarterback in college. And then earlier this year, he played in the AAF, San Antonio Commanders, a year ago. That's one of his winning touchdown throws. So this game's not a referendum on anything. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the iHeart radio app.

Search heard to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode,

we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laugh, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me. Your host and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field

and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way.

Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Clifford Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me.

He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker.

Listen to the Cliford Show. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game.

His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall.

And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers while he got the ball, like,

after you go through a training camp with that, I say, you figure it out. real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. Staff knows what I like.

Staff knows I like the minutia of football. The Senior Bowl is one of my favorite, favorite weeks of the year. Jim Nagy is now the new executive director. You were a scout for you've got four Super Bowl rings. One of the best scouts in the game. 18 years as a scout. You helped for years to see Hawks and the Patriots. two interesting cultures.

So let's start, Jim, with that. Pete's high emotion. Pete loves young players. Bill tends to, in my opinion, like older players, a little more rigidity. So I think they're kind of different cultures. Did you see any similarities between the two? None. Absolutely.

No, that was the rewarding thing of working for both franchises because you can see, you can do totally polar opposite things and get the same result. just, you know, the mantra in New England is do your job, right? And in Seattle, it's we're all in. And they're just, like you said, Pete is what you see is what you get. Bill is what you see is what you get. Like people always ask about both guys, what's portrayed in the media and what they put out there is who they are in the building. You know, Pete's going up and down the hallways on scooters and, you know, and you're in the New England building and it's, you know, it's crickets.

I mean, it's, you could hear a pin drop in that building. So it's two completely different ways of doing things and they obviously both get results. When you, let's say when you, it's funny, I was talking to Bill Pulley in years ago and I said, Bill, I won't go public, but did you ever really whiffing a guy? And he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, we got a guard in years ago. I knew two practices. I'm like, well, whiffed on that one, can't play. It is hard because some kids in college can dominate inferior opposition. But when you put an equal up next to him in the NFL, they're just, they don't have the soul to burl through another man. Like I've been, I've told that by players. The NFL scares some guys. That is. they just don't have the stomach for it. Like Ray Lewis is coming at you. I'm out. Is there a position as a scout, which to this day,

it's the hardest position for you to figure out? I think linebacker was for a long time. And then I was lucky enough to work with two guys that won the Butkus Award. I was with Matt Russell in New England for a long time. And then Dan Morgan in Seattle. So just sitting with those guys and watching tape with them on linebackers and trying to pick their brain really, really helped. But like you said, missing on players,

I always felt like going back in the history of the time I was doing, it. When you really miss on players and the team misses on a player, you're really missing more on the person than you are the player because the tape is the tape is the easy part is watching the tape. It's figuring out the guy and what he's going to do when he's got some money in his pocket and more time on his hands. That's the hard part. I think that's when you miss. Okay, let's start with Joe Burrow. Joy loves Joe Burrow. My takeaway is a year ago he completes 57% of his throws. He is athletic, though not hyperathletic. He's got a good arm. It's not special. It's not Mahomes. I think we're forgetting that he plays at LSU,

which is essentially an NFL factory. I like Tua. I think he does remind me of Breeze, not Baker, incredible accuracy. When I saw him play LSU on a 70% leg and he was that accurate against NFLDBs, I was like, okay, I'm in on Tua. When you look at those guys,

let's just talk Burrell for a second. Should I consider as a scout, he's playing with nothing but NFL guys. Well, you know, I kind of made that point last year going through the draft process on Kyler Murray and Dwayne Haskins. Every time they took the field, they were lining up with better people and the guys they were playing against. That's not the NFL, you know, throwing in a huge windows. You've got first-round receivers running everywhere. So you could make that point with Joe.

I just think Joe's unprecedented. I've been asked a bunch, like, what do you make of this Joe Burrow thing? I can't come up with anything. I mean, I've never seen anything like at this Meteoric Rises on. In one year. In one year. When I did them over the summer, I thought third or fourth round, pick, went to the man in camp this summer and met him for the first time. Like you said,

physical tools doesn't blow you away. He didn't stand out at the manning camp, but what did stand out was the guy. And that's what's so great about going to the manning camp, which I couldn't do when I worked in the NFL. They don't let NFL people go down there. So that's been the best perk to me of the senior role job as I get to go to the manning camp. But to see Joe like around other alphas and to see who gravitates to who is really intriguing. And what you can't undersell with Joe Burrow is the guy. You know, he's a guy's guy's guy, he's a coach's kid. You know, his dad just retired this past year from Ohio, you grew up around the game. You go to the game.

You go to LSU. I saw them play Florida and Alabama this year. And you just watch pregame. Like, who responds to this guy is that, you know, black guys, white guys, small guys, big guys. You know, everyone gravitates to this guy. And you see him throw a touchdown and come off the field and see how guys, people go out of their way to get to this guy. That's fascinating. And it doesn't, you know, that's the stuff scouts look for when they go to games.

And a lot of people poo poo that stuff. But it's real. I mean, that stuff matters. Those guys play for Joe Burrow. So, yeah, you can look at the physical stuff and you can pick that apart. Is it overwhelming? No, it's not. But the football player and the guy is overwhelming.

All right, Tua, injury. Would it make you not draft him? I'd have to have my doctors ask that. But, no, that's a tough one. It's going to make a team roll the dice a little bit. You know, that's going to be the intriguing thing is the decision Tua makes. I think he can go and I think he's got four ways to go. He can just come out and force a team to roll the dice on a hip.

If he's good enough by July, he could come out supplemental. and have a workout and prove to teams, yeah, my hip's good. Or he could come back to school, sit it out and go through the pre-draft process. So he's got a lot of different things to look at with the injury. But I'm with you. I've always been a fan of two. I saw them play five times this year. When he was being recruited by Alabama and I was working for Seattle,

everyone in the building said he's just like your guy. He's just like your guy, meaning Russell Wilson. And there's a lot of similarities. There are. You know, height-wise, they're similar. Russell's a better athlete, I think. Russell is a better athlete, but they're both springy. They're both bouncyy guys.

And the difference is, though, like if you're a Tua fan, he throws with better anticipation than Russell does. And he sees the field a little better than Russell does. Wow. So, but they're both accurate. And again, I love Russell. I love Russell. I'm not putting Russell down. But those are two as anticipation, field vision, accuracy are off the charts.

All right, Jim Nagy, executive director, senior bowl. I'm so into this stuff. I'm going to go home and listen to this again. I'm just so fascinated. Give me your best right and why you found a guy, small school. guys like me barely know anything about him and you knew it. And where were you when you found him and tell me the story? Oh, that's so self-serving.

I don't do it. I do it for three hours a day. Well, that's easy. Where we're at with the NFL nowadays, by the time you draft a player, there's been seven sets of eyes on the guy. So it's gone are the days if you can just claim that you found this guy. There's been a bunch of guys. But really, the ones that scouts can hang their hats on,

is the undrafted free agents. The guys that don't go to All-Star Games, the guys that don't go to the combine. And just going way back in time, I know you're a Pat's guy. Remember Mike Wright, a defensive lineman. He was played there for eight years. He went to Cincinnati, was a backup level player, even in college until the very end. And I was at Cincinnati this one day.

And for the Patriots, you had to look at every single senior. So some teams go in and they only have, you know, a handful of guys earmark to look at. And I'm, and I had the clicker in my hand that day. So I was rewined and rewind and other scouts were like, who are you looking at? And I'm like, I got all these guys to look at. And Mike Wright was really the guy I was rewined and look at. But he was a 300-pound guy that vertical jumped 38 inches. Whoa, my Lord.

And he played eight years. So he was a good role player for a long time. Any stars, any perimeter dudes? Stars. Edelman, you know, Edelman was a guy. That was my last year in New England. So to see Julian play quarterback, he knew he wasn't going to be a quarterback. Now it would be interesting if Julian came out as a quarterback.

Now that the leagues opened up a little bit more to shorter guys. So you found him? No, I'm not going to say I found Julian. But you push for him. Yeah, yeah. I pushed for Julie. He was a phenomenal athlete when you met with the coaching staff. The one thing they said, most competitive guy they've ever coached.

So to me, if we're going to take a shot on a guy late, let's take a shot out of a competitor. You know, it's a Jiminyagie is joining us, executive director of the Senior Bowl. He's got four Super Bowl rings. You started as a PR intern for the Packers. When, you know, some teams, the Saints draft extraordinarily well. I've been critical of the Patriots drafting. Bill does what he wants to do. Are there people, though, in this league that have what you would call an eye? Mickey Loomis for the Saints appears to have an eye.

What is it? I think there is. I think Jeff Ireland does a great job. He's done a great job. He got booted out in Miami and nobody wants to hear this because he's had some controversy. He's been great in New Orleans. He's been great. I think guys do have a knack for it.

And I think the really good teams, they exhaust. the process. You know, our mantra in Seattle was we don't, we never have all the answers. I mean, we will push all the way up. We would push all the way up till draft day, trying to figure a guy. Wow. Whereas some teams, they move on to the next year's draft. They have scouts working on next year's draft before this draft is even here. You know, the teams that really exhaust the process, try to get to know these guys. When you spend the spring, rather than just go to pro day and get a 40 time and leave, when you stick around afterwards and take a guy to lunch or take a guy to dinner and really spend time,

that's when the teams that draft well really get to know the process. person going back to you when you get them wrong you get the person wrong did you like lamar by the way 30 seconds did you like him lamar yeah i didn't do i didn't go into louisville but what he's doing right now is unbelievable but i will say this what baltimore's doing around him really buying in organizationally surround him and in like being on the same page with that vision that doesn't happen all the time there's a lot of draft rooms where you have a plan for a player and then you you you draft him and then moving forward it all goes kaput and the player doesn't work out so kudos to the to the ravens for sticking to the plan

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me. with Robert Smygel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show,

I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, A, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. A rep, my mama want you to wait. better. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow.

Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to, he's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.