The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Best of The Herd: 12/21/2018

Episode Date: December 21, 2018

Colin says the Patriots are leaking stories about attempts to acquire more talent at the deadline because they know they look bad for not getting Tom Brady more weapons. He thinks the Rockets got desperate in their attempts to beat the Warriors and now they are stuck with an injured and expensive Chris Paul. Plus, future Hall of Famer Joe Thomas talks with Colin about the struggling Rams and why the Chargers are the team nobody wants to play Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

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What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. you just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming till he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball.

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by searching herd. This is the best of the herd with Colin Cowherd on Fox Sports Radio. Ah, here we go on a Friday. This is The Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening live in Los Angeles, Iheart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1, our final blazing five of the NFL regular season in one hour from now. I'm on the air Monday, Christmas season.

then I'm going to hang out with fam for a few days. Jamie Maggio is joining me today. Great to see you. I'll be with you Monday, too. I can't wait. This will be great. Today, a ton of stories. I feel so lucky, and then Monday will be on the air where you'll have a million stories to talk about.

This is a great time to be a sports radio host. It is just an incredible next two days, all sorts of stuff. So I've said this for years. Stories get out when people want them out. I have certain stories. right now. I know to be true, but I don't want to burn a source. I don't want to burn a friend. And they're not massively newsworthy. So I don't put everything out there I have. If I wanted it out, I'd put it out. I'd leak it to somebody else. The reality is the media suppresses some stories,

and the media gets stories only when people allow them to have stories. We need sources. Well, suddenly, yesterday, oh, my word, stories started leaking right after the news. news that Josh Gordon is out of the NFL, out of the Patriots. He was a Hail Mary pass to begin with. Story started leaking that the Patriots reportedly tried to trade for Demarius Thomas. They knew Gordon probably wouldn't last. The athletics, Jeff Howe, a fine NFL reporter works for the athletic, a fine subscription sports service. You should subscribe today. Why? Think about this. The NFL has done a year-long investigations on New England to get kernels of information.

Josh Gordon's out. Six hours later, stories coming out of New England. You know, we tried to get other people. Why? Because the narrative is swinging anti-Belichek. This is on him, not Tom. By the way, even the Boston

newspapers this morning are crushing the Patriots. The Boston, they're taking Brady's side on this like we did yesterday. Hey, this is not on Brady. What Brady's doing this, year. His numbers are remarkable when you consider what he has to work with. A rookie running back that's been hurt, another running back who's more of a receiver. They've turned Cordarell Patterson,

a receiver into a running back, Gronks on his last year, Edelman can't catch big balls, Dorset's a bust. Gordon couldn't stay in the league. So what happens, New England, knowing they're getting crushed in Boston nationally? Let's throw a few of these gems out to make sure everybody knows. Hey, listen, we tried to get to Marius Thomas. There's a reason we wouldn't cut Philip Dorset. Stories leak when people want them leaked. And Billichick also knows and New England also knows they're in big trouble. They cannot now, without a deep threat, beat Kansas City, beat Pittsburgh, go on the road and beat the Chargers.

I don't know if they could beat Baltimore or Houston at home. But this New England team is old, beat up with second-tier weapons for the greatest quarterback that's ever played. By the way, LeBron left Cleveland twice because of this sort of situation. I got nothing here. Dan Gilbert got me nothing. Brady, if this was the NBA, should leave.

Look at the weapons the Chargers have, the Steelers have, the Texans have. Look at the weapons that Dak Prescott has. Amari Cooper, Zeke, elite offensive line, great front seven defensively. Patriots

passing weapons? Quarterrell, Patterson, Philip Dorset, Chris Hogan, an old gronk, and Julian Edelman? They've drafted one legitimate receiver in a decade. Edelman, and he was a quarterback at Kent State. They had Brandon Cooks, inexplicably, let him go. So remember, when people talk about Hail Marys, what is a Hail Mary in football? It's a desperation pass.

It's our last chance. Josh Gordon was a Hail Mary. That's all this was. Why was he a Hail Mary? because New England and Belichick have done a lousy job getting Tom elite college receivers. They're all over this league. Pittsburgh drafts two every other year.

New England hasn't done anything for Tom in a decade at wide receiver. They have to scout the NFL, find cheap guys who fit into a system. No Julio Jones. They can get Randy Moss. They can get him from an NFL team. So stories leak when somebody wants them leaked.

And even Boston today is crushing the front office in Belichick. You are wasting Brady's final years. You're wasting. People say Aaron Rogers has no help. Jordy Nelson. They got him Jimmy Graham, Devante Adams, Randall Cobb. These guys can play. Aaron Rogers and Fav.

They had players. Peyton Manning had all stars. Brady last seven years. Randy Moss for an hour. Ugly. This story is amazing. And it's kind of a bummer. It's very easy in the NBA, especially, to get trapped.

Where you sign a guy, he's passed his prime, he's been hurt. So when Houston brought in Chris Paul, and he got hurt last year, I said, you can't sign him to a five-year deal. I wouldn't sign him to a four-year deal. I don't care what you promised him. I would go to Chris and say, listen, I can't give you four years. I'm not going to trap my franchise. But Darry, you know,

went out and signed him. And, oh, by the way, Chris Paul's hurt again. MRI this morning. He is going to be out sometime. Houston is completely trapped. But you know what this story makes me think of? LeBron James. His remarkable durability.

What's LeBron made of? He's never hurt. You ever seen that banana boat picture? Mello's on it. He's unemployed. D. Wade's on it, retiring. Chris Paul's on it falling apart. LeBron never hurt, played 82 last year, still the best player in the league.

Okay, there is not a single contract you could give LeBron James that you would say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, we don't want to get trapped. Give him a six-year deal. Give him a five-year deal. I told Houston, on this air, we've got it archived, you can't give Chris Paul four years. You can't. In fact, you go to him and you give him three with a team option in the third. Look around sports right now, folks.

6-6-255-pound Cam Newton. They're shutting his season down. Aaron Rogers, hurt again. Westbrook entered the year on crutches. Stefan KD. constantly hurt. Carson Wentz. Should we play him? Odell Beckham, Jr., hurt again.

LeBron 15th year. Played every regular season game last year. When they write the book on LeBron, Chapter 1 should be, is he the greatest of all time, and chapter 2 should be, he is the greatest, most durable, professional athlete in the history of sports. Michael Jordan missed a season, and then he missed three to play baseball.

Brady broke his leg. John Stockton. Think about the NBA right now. Think about all the guys. I'm going to list to you, I'm going to give you a list of NBA stars who get hurt a lot. Kauai Leonard, John Wall, Love, Kyrie, Westbrook, NBA. Kevin Durant, Steph. It's incredible.

We're shutting down NFL players. Baseball pitchers can't pitch a full season. I always say this about sports. It's not about winning. It's about durability. Tim Tebow in Denver, I told you on the air, that's not sustainable. Blake Bortles in Jacksonville. You're running too much.

You've got to pass more downfield, not sustainable. Lamar Jackson of Baltimore, you know, they're good now. you can't run 20 times a game as a quarterback. That's not sustainable. They've got to cut it down to about seven. But Chris Paul, little by little, is falling apart. And I love Chris Paul. I'm pro-Christ Paul.

I love Steph Curry. I love Kevin Durant. I'm all in on these guys. But it is unbelievable. You never see this story 15 years. LeBron hurt, team trapped with his contract. You know, LeBron's the only star in American sports. In the history of sports, he's the only player that wants to sign one-year deals.

When he signed with the Lakers and signed a four-year deal, the story was, oh, my God, LeBron committed to four years? Because LeBron is so confident in his body that he's like, well, I can just sign a one-year deal. What if he get hurt? I don't. I mean, every other athlete, Michael Jordan, Caram-Malone, Charles Barkley, they wanted long-term deals to guarantee the money. until the Laker deal, LeBron was like, I'll just sign a one-year contract. Well, why would I want to give you two years? Well, you guarantee money.

I don't need it. I don't get hurt. And even the Laker four-year deal, I think ideally LeBron would have rather signed a one-year deal. But he wanted to commit to the city of Los Angeles. He knew he was replacing Kobe Bryant. He wanted to be popular. He didn't want to be like a vagabond, a traveling salesman. You know, the free agent pitches, hey, I'm here for the long term.

I signed a four-year deal. in Los Angeles, you can come and join me. I'm not going anywhere. But I think LeBron ideally wanted to sign a one-year deal with the Lakers. But he knew for the brand, for magic, replacing Kobe to get free agents. I mean, Chris Paul's hurt. Again. Carson Wentz, great player, Cam, Aaron, hurt.

Again, again, again. Second chapter in LeBron's book. Most durable athlete ever. Nobody's even close to him. We think of Kauai Leonard is a tough guy. He missed all last season. He's already missed several games this year. Oh, Lord.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. There's about four games this weekend that are huge. In my lifetime, and I'm sure maybe there was a year, I don't remember a year where in week 16, we have this many games that matter. I mean, Kansas City at Seattle could change the entire AFC picture. Baltimore at the Chargers. Pittsburgh goes to New Orleans is a massive game.

The Colts play. The Giants should win. And if they do, they could seize a playoff spot here. Looks like they have a chance to make the playoffs after a horrible start. So Pittsburgh kind of rebooted last week, played very well-beat New England, goes to New Orleans. Cam Jordan's a great player for the Saints. and he was asked about Big Ben this week, and I don't think he took a shot of him.

I think Cam's a very outspoken guy, knowledgeable guy, funny guy, and he gets into a sparring thing about Big Ben with a reporter. Here it is. Got a quarterback who might be going to the Hall of Fame. He's going to impact 29. Is that true? Lothusburg?

Yeah. So, really? What is this offense to where? In this era. You put him at top five in this area. Drew. Tom. Tom. Aeron.

Peyton. Peyton. Manny. He's not. I didn't count him in the era. This is the era. He retired two years ago. That was most of Rutherberg's career.

You're saying he's better than Philip Rivers right now. Right now? Career-wise. I'd honestly put Eli before I put Ben, but okay. Okay, but there's a moment in that when he's talking about eras, and there's confusion about eras. First of all, quarterbacks are playing longer, so they're moving into different eras.

Tom Brady has really screwed the era talk up. He screwed it up. about this, Tom Brady and Russell Wilson are now considered in the same era. Russell Wilson was drafted 12 years later than Tom. Tom is older than the Houston Texans. When Tom won his first Super Bowl, the Seahawks were in the AFC. The Arizona Cardinals were in the NFC East and Tampa Bay was in something called the NFC Central.

That doesn't even exist anymore. Is that Brady screwed up all of this because he's played so long. he won a Super Bowl against Kurt Warner. Kurt Warner is already in the Hall of Fame and has been broadcasting five years after that. Donovan McNabb, Jake Del Ome. How long's Jake Del Ome been out of the league? He met him in a Super Bowl.

There's literally, we're on the third Tom Brady era. There was the first Tom Brady era. He was winning Super Bowls, but the defense was doing a lot of the heavy lifting. The Steelers, he was beating Cordell's. Stewart and the Steelers to get there. Big Ben wasn't even around yet. Then there's the second,

second big Tom Brady era. Peyton and he in their prime, his contemporaries are an older Farr, an older Carson Palmer, Peyton Manning, Eli is blossoming into something, and he's winning Super Bowls, and he's the reason why

they're winning Super Bowls. That's the second Tom Brady era. The third is 40-41-year-old Tom, where he's now facing the kids Deshawn Watson, Carson Wentz, Russell Wilson, Andrew Locke, Maddie Ryan. He's trying to win one more Super Bowl without any weapons. He doesn't have any weapons. I mean, Brady has messed.

Now, do I think Big Ben is whatever in his era is? Do I think Big Ben's a Hall of Famer? Yes. Do I think he's more of a Hall of Famer than Philip Rivers? Yes. Do I think he's better than Eli Manning? Not even close. Yes.

but when you start talking about eras, it used to be very, very simple. Oh, Bradshaw played in the 70s and, you know, Aikman was playing, you know, in the 90s, and this guy in the 80s. You guys realize Tom Brady is still got two to three years left. He's going to play 21 years. There are guys that were literally aged with Tom,

retired, went into a Hall of Fame five years later, waited a couple years, went on TV, and now they're TV veterans, Kurt Warner. They mess the whole darn thing up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd. Weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Very interesting now that in the NBA, the Boston Celtics are rumored to want

Anthony Davis with the Pelicans. The Lakers, we know, want Anthony Davis of the Pelicans. And those are the two leaders in the clubhouse. Now, the way the NBA works with contracts, Boston can't make a deal with Kyrie Irving. They couldn't have Kyrie and Anthony Davis until like June or July. on the same contract. It's confusing.

It's bad radio TV. The Lakers with LeBron, Los Angeles. He signed with Clutch Sports. I would say are the favorite lien, but Boston has more to give them, but has some limitations. Here's the thing. Yesterday, the Pelican said,

we're not trading him ever. Alvin Gentry, I mean, is Alvin Gentry going to be there in two years? Who knows? Alvin Gentry said, we will not trade him. All right, don't. And then in a year and a half, he walks, and you're left with nothing.

We have a history, folks. When big stars are rumored to be leaving, they do. Here's the last 10 star players rumored to be leaving. Jimmy Butler left. Jimmy Butler again left. Kevin Durant left. Paul George left. Paul George stayed.

Blake Griffin left. LeBron left. DeAndre Jordan left. Kaui Leonard left. Chris Paul left. 9 out of 10. And Paul George is the only one that stayed with an organization, Oklahoma City, with a star, and that has a history of winning.

New Orleans doesn't have either for Anthony Davis. I don't believe you get rigid. I think when the word is out, you have more leverage the sooner you get rid of somebody. By the way, Indiana, Paul George said, I'm not interested. I want to leave. The Pacers, Kevin Pritchard, got right on it, and they ended up getting Subonis and Victorola Depot, and the Pacers are a real team. The Pacers are a real team.

By the way, Lobb City, Clippers got them all out of town. Clippers are 18 and 13 tied with the Lakers. They're a real team. And many believe leading candidate to land Kauai Leonard. Those two teams didn't wait around. Also remember this. The quicker New Orleans would make a deal would say the Lakers, they would get Laker parts that are still in their rookie contracts,

cheap players that you can use and sell. But if you wait a year and a half, you're going to have to pay guys like Brandon Ingram. You have to pay, it can be closer to pay in Kuzma, paying and Josh Hart. Those players are not as valuable. Cheap players and players on expiring contracts, a lot of people want those. So I know you're saying, Colin, you just want to see Anthony Davis in Los Angeles. No, what I'm saying is we have a history in this league.

When small markets say, you know, this is unfair. No, what is unfair is billionaire owners in the NBA, knowing that franchises have no shot to compete on the open market, but taking a $400 million expansion fee and allowing a team in that's not really an NBA city. This is billionaires getting greedy, and then the billionaires are angry when they're a small market billionaire and can't keep their stars.

Anthony Davis is in the Witness Protection Program in New Orleans. He deserves better. Fans deserve. I'm tired of the NBA TV, Anthony Davis. I want the TNT Anthony Davis and Charles Barkley talking about it. One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

Of the last 10 Super Bowl participants, nine are number one seats. It's all like March madness. We talk about all the upsets, but you always end up with Duke and Kansas and, you know, all the big dogs. of the last 10 Super Bowl participants, nine are one seeds, the Falcons were a two seed. Chalk gets there. Last five years,

chock gets there. And I do believe this year, the Saints will get there. The question is, who will be the number one seed in the AFC? And this weekend, we have massive games, Ravens at the Chargers,

Pittsburgh at New Orleans, Houston at Philly, none bigger than Kansas City at Seattle. It is a fascinating game for a lot of reasons. Now, Nick Wright, who works at FS1, is from Kansas City. He's freaking out. And this morning, he freaked out some more. He had a very nice outfit on, but he was freaking out and sweating while he was talking. I've been saying all year this is the best team of football, that this right now in

2018 is the best player in football, Patrick Mahomes. I'm going to look right into the camera. My friend's in Kansas City, you got a chance to prove me right this weekend. To go to Seattle, put up four touchdowns, essentially lock up the one seed, and remind everyone, one, the road to the Super Bowl goes through Arrowhead. If they can't do that, they are likely going to be the five seat. And this amazing, magical season in Kansas City with an MVP quarterback could end in one road playoff game. This is a prove-it moment for the Chiefs.

None of their losses have been bad, but all of them have been preventable. Kansas City and the Rams met on Monday night football. Remember that game? It was the wildest, craziest Monday night football game ever. I would say one of the craziest games. I've ever seen in league history. 54-51. It was supposed to be played in Mexico City.

Then they moved it to Los Angeles. The teams moved all over the place. Since that time, the Rams are 1 and 2. And since that time, the Chiefs are 2-1 with an overtime win and struggled with the Raiders. So if Kansas City loses at Seattle, the AFC is entirely different. You know, it's funny about sports. we tend to think these are alpha males and they're very confident and nothing gets in their head. But for years and years until Kurt Schilling arrived, Boston often had better players than the Yankees.

It took a transformational Hall of Fame level pitcher Kurt Schilling to come in and say, ride my arm. Manny Ramirez, crazy Manny, ride my bat. I'll get us through this. Kansas City, you've got the Andy Reed component where he has struggled in some of these big games. think he's an amazing coach. Patrick Mahomes can be kind of a winged gunslinger guy. The Chiefs as a franchise, kind of get into the playoffs, regardless of coach,

and they let you down. There are a lot of things working above the shoulders for Kansas City this weekend. Seattle, in prime time games with Russell Wilson, has been better than every team in the league except New England. Nobody in the league has been better in stand-alone, primetime game. Super Bowls, playoffs, at home. They don't only win, they cover the spread, they win big. This is the biggest Chiefs game in, I mean, you can make an argument.

It's the biggest Chiefs game in a decade. It's that big this weekend. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. On Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio, So one of the big games this weekend is the Steelers, who rebooted a little this past week, beat Pittsburgh, beat New England. They go to New Orleans where I think they're going to lose to the Saints. Close game. And Cam Jordan's a great player for the Saints.

And he was giving Big Ben, he was pushing back on how great Big Ben is. Here's the sound. A quarterback who might be going to the Hall of Fame. He's going in fact 20-9. Is that true? Lothusburg. Yeah. So what is this offensive to wear?

In this era? You put them at top five of this area. Drew. Tom. Aaron. Peyton. Peyton. Manian.

He's not. I didn't even count him in the era. This is the area. He retired two years ago. That was most of Rutherberg's career. You're saying he's better than Philip Rivers right now. Right now? Career-wise.

I'd honestly put Eli before I put Ben, but okay. Okay, so just interesting. I like Big Ben. I think Big Ben's what we thought Cam Newton could be. I'll tell you he wins more recently and on the road than Aaron Rogers. But let's be fair about this. Let's just say, how good is Big Ben? Let's go to the year he was drafted, 2004.

I'm going to list the significant quarterbacks. There's 21 that have come out since 2004. I'm not listing all of them, just the guys who have had some modicum of success. Eli, Philip Rivers, Aaron Rogers, Jay Cutler, Matt Ryan, Flacco, Matt Stafford, Sam Bradford, Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, Alex Smith, Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Derek Carr, Mariotta, Goff, Wentz, Mahomes, Deshawn Watson, Mitch Trubisky. So in 14 years, 21 guys have come out, and I would consider them, they've had some modicum of success. I'd put Big Ben, number one. Ben one, Rogers 2, Russell 3, Philip 4, Andrew Luck 5.

Now, I think Russell Wilson still has seven years to go. Andrew Luck has seven to eight. Now, you're saying to yourself, Ben and Aaron Rogers, folks, I've been saying this for the last couple of years. Aaron compares to Ben, not Brady. Brady pulled away years ago from him just too much hardware, too many wins. But once again, Aaron, back-to-back years, not in the playoffs, harder to coach. We don't even know who his coach is. a lot of drama.

And, you know, I'll say this, and I'm not blaming Aaron, but Big Ben's just got a better organization. They draft better than Green Bay, and they've given him better pieces. And I'm not knocking Aaron Rogers for that. But if you're telling me, the last 14 years, the 21 quarterbacks drafted, Big Ben is no worse than second, and I would put him first over Aaron Rogers. I'd go, Ben, Rogers, Russell, Rivers Luck. I love all of them.

I don't even put Eli in that classification. Let's get past Eli. And all five of these guys I like. And I do think Big Ben has the benefit of the Rooney family, great owners. He's had a very good defensive coach, Mike Tomlin, and they've drafted the heck out of running backs and wide receivers and offensive linemen. And the Steelers are a better free agent city. So some of that, Ben over Rogers, is, you know, Ben didn't have a lot to do with it.

His team gets him better players, keeps better players, drafts better players. But you start talking about Ben Rothensberger, At worst, he's second. And I love Russell Wilson. And I think Russell Wilson could eventually be better than Big Ben. Russell, I think, is a Hall of Fame or two. But let's not go crazy on Big Ben and bang on him here because he's got a lot of drama. Aaron's got his drama.

Andrew Lucks had his injuries. Philip Rivers hasn't won. If you look at the top five guys, they've all got a ding against him. Aaron Rogers, hurt again, a lot of drama. Russell Wilson had that Super Bowl loss. We still consider him, I don't. Many do. Better runner than thrower.

Philip Rivers, not enough playoff wins. Andrew Luck, a lot of picks. Doesn't matter to me, but it does to a lot of people, and he's been hurt for a lot of it. So let's not go crazy on Big Ben's a great player. Big Ben is what we thought Cam Newton could be, and Cam's not even in the same galaxy, not even in the same area code.

Big Ben's an all-timer. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd, weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Our next guest was not only a pro bowler, 10 of the 11 years he played. He played in almost 11,000 straight snaps, an NFL record. He didn't get hurt or miss a game for 10 years. He'll be a first ballot hall of famer in the history of left tackle.

He protected 29 brown quarterbacks, which says a lot about the brown, frankly, and also Joe Thomas. But he's in a short list of Walter Jones, John Hanna, Jonathan Ogden, Anthony Munoz, of the great all-time left tackles, which is now outside of quarterback. many believe the second most important position in the National Football League and via the Coward Global Satellite Network, Joe Thomas. All right, Baker is four and two in his last six, Joe. He is rolling. But here's the dilemma. We've seen this over time.

Some coaches bring an energy and enthusiasm, a curtness of frankness, a candor, which can work for six weeks to eight weeks, but it may not work for 10 years. Greg Williams is intense, and he makes people accountable, and it is working short-term. And you don't want to screw the Baker thing up. But Joe, is he a long-term answer? Who's Baker's next coach to you? Yeah, I think Greg Williams can definitely be the long-term answer there in Cleveland. Like you mentioned, he's tough.

He holds people accountable. But I think he also brings a steadying force. And that's what a lot of players have been saying coming out of that locker room, that the stuff that you saw from hard knocks and the things that Greg Williams is most well known for is not exactly who he is as a head coach. He's a very stable, level, even keel head coach. And I think you see that a lot even on the sidelines when you watch the games. And I think that's what the team is performing like right now. You know, Joe, Tony Dungey was a defensive coordinator, Tomlin, Belichick, Parcells, Jimmy Johnson, Chuck Knoll.

A lot of Super Bowls have been won when a quarterback gets a guy to fix the defense. and the quarterbacks can figure out the offense. Do you think there's a case to be made that Baker is smart enough, high IQ, five years of college. He doesn't need an offensive guru. What he needs is a defensive coach, like even a Nick Saban. Where would you go? Do you think a defense or an offensive guy for him?

I think a defensive guy could definitely work for Baker, because when you have a defensive head coach, he worries mostly about the defense. And then a lot of times you get a lot more quality. operation between the offensive coordinator and the quarterback. And they work together hand in hand coming up with a game plan. Whereas if you have an offensive-minded head coach, a lot of times he just kind of forces what he wants on that quarterback.

And I definitely think Baker is smart enough. Even though he's a young player, the guy plays way smarter than his age. And I think you're only going to continue to see that grow. So I could definitely see a defensive head coach being a great fit for Baker. By the way, all these quarterbacks, as much as I have criticized Baker, all these rookies are succeeding. Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, are way better than I thought initially. Now I want to segue to a veteran, Tom Brady. Josh Gordon is out. I look at this team this morning, and I just, Joe, you played in the AFC for a long time. I respect Belichick. I think Brady's the best I've ever seen.

But man, Joe, they don't have an over-the-top threat. Gronks a shell of himself. I do think Josh Gordon's departure is kind of a margin squeezer. I don't think they can get through the AFC. Do you? I definitely wouldn't bet on the Patriots making it through the AFC, like you mentioned. They lost their deep threat. So now teams are going to be able to see that. They're going to come up with a great game plan and just squeeze everybody because

Gronk can't stretch the field vertically. All they have is some of that underneath stuff. They're not running the ball as well as they have in the past. And their defense isn't playing as well as it has in years past. So without that formula that the Patriots have been putting together, for years. I'm not sure that they're really going to be able to do anything in the playoffs. I would expect them to probably lose. But just when everybody is counting the Patriots out, sometimes it seems that's when they play the best and they circle the wagons and they get that team mentality. So

your guess is as good as mine. The Rams have hit a wall. They've got a lot of expensive stars. Therefore, they don't have a ton of depth. Do you believe if they get a buy week that they could use that to get rest and reboot or in your history in the NFL. Do you feel like once a team goes sideways post Thanksgiving, can you turn it around? Or is it kind of a, listen, if you're bad in September, you can turn it around by December. But if you struggle in November and early December, it's over. Your thoughts on the Rams right now? They're definitely going to have to turn it around in their last couple games because we've seen a little bit of complacency kind of slide in.

They haven't played very well in the last couple weeks. And if they can't turn it around and have one of those great offensive performances that we've seen earlier on in the season, they're going to just sleepwalk right through the postseason and probably lose the first game that they play. When you look at the AFC, which you played in for 11 years, what am I supposed to do with a team like Kansas City? Struggles defensively. It's not a franchise with a history of winning. I've got a very young quarterback. I now don't have a star running back.

You know, you know how this season works, Joe, is that some team, Kansas City has a history of great early, disappointing late. Give me your thoughts on what we're going to see from the Chiefs the rest of the way. Yeah, I actually think this is going to be a little bit of a different season for the Chiefs. They did, they lost the Chargers on Thursday night football a few weeks ago. But I really think with the offensive weapons that they have, And with that defensive line playing the way that they've been playing as of late, I think that's going to be a big key for them because they'll be able to pressure the passer in the playoffs.

And they'll be able to score points. And teams are going to struggle to keep up with them scoring points. Even though they've had years past where they get eliminated early on and Andy Reed hasn't had great postseason success, I definitely just get a different sense that this team is a lot different with Patrick Mahomes being there. It's almost a fresh start with that young quarterback. You face big band probably what, 20 times in your career, 20, 22, times, obviously. Yeah. And, you know, Cam Jordan said yesterday, he was kind of questioning who he is. You know, I've always said this with Big Ben. He is flawed. He is imperfect.

But in my lifetime, there's never been a 6'5-pound quarterback. He's the only guy I ever saw pump fake with one hand. He didn't even have to use his second hand. I think Big Ben's one of the great players I have ever seen in league history. In your 11 years of watching Ben play, film live. How do you describe him if I'd never seen him? If I'd never watched a football game and you were telling me about him, how do you describe him?

Well, he's like a big dinosaur that can throw the football. It's pretty amazing when you see him because he's impossible to tackle. I can't remember how many times, especially early on in his career, where we'd have free runners just bouncing off him. We'd have big defensive linemen have him wrapped up and he'd somehow be able to shake them off

and throw the football down the field. So I agree with you. Ben Rothesberger is one of the best quarterbacks to ever play in this game. And in my opinion, his Pro Bowl statistics and resume is never in whatsoever. I think sometimes you see this in the NFL where guys don't like somebody personally and they kind of try to take shots at their ability and their resume when really it's not warranted because in my opinion, you can't argue with what Ben Rothesberger has been doing as a quarterback for 14 or 15 seasons. Joe Thomas, one of the great left tackles ever. Finally, when you get into,

we're close to Christmas now. And you didn't miss starts. Okay. went 10,400 snaps until you had an injury. Okay? That's an NFL record. But it is different, Joe. Defense is now are better. A lot of guys are dinged up. On average, and you are a big, healthy player.

Explain to my audience the difference between December and January football, how your body feels. Is it better to be a young guy or a veteran? Take my audience into what these top teams are facing now. They're 15 games in. Some of have played 20 with the preseason. Where are guys at now? Well, even a rookie is going to be getting sore at this point in the season. But for a veteran, the most important thing is just finding little ways during the week to try to get your legs back, to try to start feeling as good as you can on Sunday.

Because by December and even into January, that week is not enough time to recover between games. And so you need to be getting extra time in the ice tub. You need to be getting extra stretching, extra massage. And really, it's a battle of attrition. Once you get to December and January, rookies, they're probably not feeling as bad because young guys, they've got a lot more things going on for them where they're able to easily recover between games. But then they don't have the mental side of it.

So as a veteran, you just got to take care of your body as good as you can. And you're going to see a lot of guys probably just taking days of practice off, trying to be smart with it. And that's what a good head coach is going to do. He's going to find little ways to try to rest his team for the stretch run in January. I think the best team and roster in the league today is the L.A. Chargers. Who do you think? I totally agree.

Yeah, I totally agree. I saw them on Thursday night football in person against the Kansas City Chiefs. And I think when you look at from the back end of their defense to their defensive line, the way they can rush the passer, the way they can run the football with Melvin Gordon now coming back,

the way Philip Rivers is playing the best of his entire career, that's the team that I wouldn't want to play. They may only be the wild card going into it, but that's, to me, the favorite right now because they're a tough team, they're disciplined. Anthony Lynn's done a great job. They've got a great leader, and Philip Rivers at quarterback and they're competitive

and they really don't have any weaknesses and that's the team I wouldn't want to play. By the way, they're the only team really that I thought Baker looked overwhelmed with. Mary, if you remember that game at home, and I'm not saying it's all Baker's fault, but he had no chance against the Chargers. They just overwhelmed him.

And Baker has not been overwhelmed much in his young career. So to your point, even in Cleveland, do you remember that game earlier in the year with Baker? Yeah, I was there. Yeah, I was there. That was probably one of his tougher games because when you look at what the Chargers defense can do, like I mentioned, they've got two great pass rushers, Joey

Bosa, Melvin Ingram. Those guys can also stop the run. They've got Derwin James. They've got a great secondary. Their linebackers run all over the field. So their defense is really tough. So they make scoring hard on you. And then all of a sudden Philip Rivers is throwing touchdowns to Keenan Allen. He's handing the ball off to Melvin Gordon. They can beat you in so many different ways

that they can take advantage of whatever your weakness is. And that's why they provide such a difficult matchup to all these different teams. All right, Joe Thomas Podcast, the Tomahawks hosted by Joe and his former teammate Andrew Hawkins. Absolute pleasure to have you on. I love your setup. You got it all dialed in there, buddy.

Look at that then. I appreciate that. $150 mic right here and $100 stand on Amazon. And life is good. I appreciate you having me on. All right. Thanks, Joe. Good stuff.

Yeah, it's funny about because I live in Los Angeles, Jamie, you and I, when you do a show from a city, let's say this show was in Dallas. And if I said, I love the Cowboys, people would say, oh, you're a cowboy fan. and I've only lived in LA three years. So I said, about two months ago, I said, I think the Chargers are better than the Rams. And I'm watching all these games. And now everybody's like, oh, God.

So I always try to go out of my way to be kind of hypercritical of local teams. I don't want to be seen as a homer. But the Chargers, I talk to two people in this league I respect, executives. And I said, what's their flaw? One of them goes, they're okay at Guard. I'm like, that's it. He's like, they're not bad. He's like, they're excellent everywhere.

They're okay at guard. Linebacker, pretty good. They are stacked. What are the wise guys where? I get asked that from time to time. The answer is the new gear from theherdnow.com merchandise store. We are now officially open for business. We have all the apparel, diehard herd herd fans need to represent the show.

Go to theherdnow.com. If you don't, that's a you problem. and that's a you problem is one of our shirts. Check it out. Theherdnow.com. Theherdnow.com store is open for business today. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. And every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headlines. and we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment,

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Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game.

This linebacker... You know these kids. This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her.

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It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was funny. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come until he's like, you know I love you, dog.

You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human