The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Best of The Herd for 01/27/2020

Episode Date: January 27, 2020

Colin reacts to the tragic news of Kobe Bryant's death and talks about what he remembers most about Kobe and his career. He also talks about it with FS1 NBA Analyst Chris Broussard and Jim Jackson who played with and against Kobe in his long NBA career. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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watching Herd. This is the best of the herd with Colin Cowherd on Fox Sports Radio. Ah, live in Miami. This is The Herd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening, IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1, Joy Taylor to my side. She has spent a great deal of time here, me far less, but it remains one of my favorite places in North America to visit. We'll be here all week.

We have a massive staff. We have people watching us off to the left and the right, the beach, the Atlantic Ocean off to our right. Thank you so much for stopping by. And it's going to be an incredible week for us. Yes. Of course, today is a bit more somber for everybody. I learned of the news yesterday flying from Atlanta. And let me just start with this.

I think I read everything you could read last night, got into my hotel room, and like a lot of you struggle to get my feet beneath me. And I watched all the videos. There's a video out there of Michael Jordan and Kobe, how their games often mirrored each other that is unbelievable. It is mesmerizing.

But I want you to think of this. When Kobe Bryant retired, it just blows me away. When Kobe Bryant retired, he had been an NBA player longer 20 years than he had not been an NBA player in his life, 17 years. So Kobe, of course, grew up right in front of our eyes. And when people grow up in front of our eyes, we see all of it. Right? It's an imperfect life.

To give you some framing on how much of Kobe's life he lived in front of our eyes, nobody asks most 18-year-olds and 19-year-olds to grow up with the camera. There were two different versions of Kobe and Phil. Two different versions. There was the Shaq Dynasty. Then Kobe shot too much. And then there was the Powell Gasol dynasty. There was the 81 points, OMG, and then the 60 points in the final game, W-T-8.

There was the number eight, Kobe, there was the number 24 Kobe, there was the Staples Kobe, there was the forum Kobe, there was the sort of skinny Kobe, there was the more buffed Kobe, the Afro, the ball, the mamba. Byron Scott was his teammate, and then Byron Scott was his coach, and then Jerry Bus was his boss, and then Jim Bus was his boss, and then a gym bus was his boss, and then in the end, Jeannie Bus with his boss. Those are the versions of Kobe. And we watched all of it from 19 years on.

Nobody else has to have a camera in front of them. Imperfect, flawed, and vulnerable. And I'll get to vulnerable in a second. But I think one of the things I always appreciated about Kobe, and he learned this after a while. When Kobe broke into the league, he was aloof. He couldn't go to the bars or the nightclubs. And there were stories that he didn't connect with teammates.

People may forget the Shaq and Kobe version. People really wanted Shaq to stay if you had to choose. But Kobe learned from that. He always evolved. He made mistakes. But Kobe then started giving more of himself the last 10 to 15 years. He gave a lot of himself. He went from teenager to teammate, to hard to coach, to a pleasure to coach, to a doting father.

And the more Kobe gave of himself, the deeper I felt the connection was. It is hard to leave it out there when you're a public figure. And Kobe did a lot. And you saw all of it. And there were times you loved him. And there were times you didn't. And there were times you screamed for him. But in a world we live in today, which is to, I mean, I'll say it's divided.

That's as diplomatic as I can currently say America is divided. There are years ago, somebody asked me if I wanted to host a political show. And I said it was so toxic. This was 10 years ago. So angry. I said, I'd rather be part of something that unites us. And music and sports do it. And it's hard to explain.

The loss of Whitney Houston or Michael Jackson or Kobe Bryant. You can't really explain what they mean when they leave us too soon, right? Your heartbroken, you're shaken, you cry, you'll weep, you're sick. Don't try to explain it to people because music and sports are really different. I have gone to concerts more than a dozen times of my life and sat or stood next to a total stranger. and I'm dancing and I'm singing, and you don't want to hear it. And I've gone to sporting events and sat similarly next to a total stranger, and I'm high-fiving and I'm yelling and I'm emoting, and I'm a complete and utter wreck.

And only sports and music does that. They're the great unifier, and Kobe Bryant gave us for 20 years all these memories and marks in our life. You don't have to explain it. You're shaken. I was. I am. You get it. In terms of Kobe's game.

Kobe, to me, of the 40 years I've watched NBA basketball, he is the great artist. The canvas was empty. Each possession, he was a painter. He was more fluid than Jordan, less physically overpowering than LeBron. But he was the artist. So it was not a coincidence when he left basketball. he won an Oscar in Hollywood. That's who Kobe at the end was. But there was something incredibly relatable to Kobe Bryant. And it's not this way with All-Stars. I may love my favorite band,

rock star, hip-hop star musician, but I don't always feel like I relate. And sometimes the NH NBA feels like a genetic league. I mean, I've seen guys in college that look like Julian Edelman or Mike Trout. But NBA guys are 6-6 and 6-7 and 6-8, and they can jump and they can you may never, ever, ever be in a court or a field or a diamond with anybody that plays and has the athletic ability of an NBA player. DNA-wise, they're different than us, right? But Kobe in the end was very relatable. There's 50 guys in the NBA now that are just as athletic as Kobe. But what really connected to me was Mamba mentality. First of all, nobody's allowed to give themselves a nickname and it sticks. Kobe did and it stuck.

That was Kobe, force of nature. But what Mamba mentality was telling you was that even though he was a Laker and even though he was a celebrity and even though he had a net worth over 300 million The mama mentality was telling you it's about the work. LeBron James told the story yesterday. He said, when I first met Kobe, I was 15. There's video. You media people can go find it. And we sat in a gym and we all looked up to Kobe.

And Kobe had just gotten to the NBA and he had a game that night in Philadelphia. But earlier in the day, there was some tournament. And Kobe came and talked to LeBron. He didn't know who LeBron was. Nobody at 14, 15 did. And Kobe said, if you want to be here, it's about the work. And when guys give themselves nicknames, it's often about themselves. But really, it was about what Kobe gave us, these markers and these moments and the work.

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learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee.

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Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, you get your podcast. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Kunky, his best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports.

And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Chris Brousard, my good friend joins me, Fox Sports NBA analyst. Rough day for all of us yesterday. Rough opening segment for me and joy and everybody. You know, I was thinking about this, Chris, and I want you to, I didn't give you a heads up on this, but mostly the way it works for icons is that it could be messy. It could be Gretzky.

It could be Brady. They become icons. It's a slow, gradual process. We don't anoint them as icons until they're ready. Right. Because of our deep love for Michael Jordan, Michael career was ending, and Kobe played and sounded so much like him,

we annoyed Kobe an icon before he started for the Lakers. He made an all-star team, at 19. He started an all-star game. He didn't start for the Lakers. So unfair is probably not the right context. But Kobe's iconic career

started before because of his artistry and the way he played and looked like MJ, we said, you're an icon. Let's go back to the early Kobe years. I don't think people, many don't remember. He sat on the bench.

He didn't play. He had rough early All-Star game. It was not easy for him early. He averaged seven points a game as a rookie, to your point. And I think the reason people elevated him so quickly, I got to be honest. And the NBA may not like me saying this. And this is probably not true. But my feeling was that they put him in the All-Star game before he really was ready. As you say, he wasn't starting for the NBA. And if you looked at the voting, he wasn't one of the starters until like the last week or so. And so I kind of felt like, you know what, they kind of put him in there. Oh, they rushed him. Right, right. And, um, that's not the way it

works for ICON. No, we made him one before he was ready. He was the first guard, first non-big man to come directly out of high school to the pros. Mary had been Moses Malone, Bill Willoughby, Daryl Dawkins, and then, uh, Kevin Garnett. And so that was part of what people want, they were rushing him. And then he won the dunk contest his second year. Yes. Following MJ, went it right there in Cleveland in front of the 50 greatest players of all time. And I think when he really solidified himself as a great player, and I think this followed him throughout his career with his clutch reputation was in the 2000 finals.

He was in his fourth year in the league and game four at NBA finals. He had hurt his ankle. He missed game three of the finals. only played eight minutes in game too because he injured the ankle in that game. Game four, they're playing Indiana. It's a tight game. Shack files out with like three minutes left,

and the game is tight, and Kobe at 21 years old takes over. His three big shots, they win the game, they go up 3-1, the series is over. And he's 21. Yes, and that solidify. No matter how many game winners

he may have missed after that, no matter how many times he passed. he passed the ball to shack for the big alley-oop when they beat Portland in game seven, right? Daryl, Robert Ory, Derek Fisher hit some of the big shots for that Lakers championship team and that run.

But Kobe, even if he may not have taken the big shot or may not have hit the big shot, he was solidified. He was a made man in terms of his reputation as a clutch player. And early on, that follows you. Because LeBron, no matter how many he shots, he may have hit because early in his career he would pass it off people say he doesn't want it you know so

by the way Michael Jordan hit the big college shot at Carolina so he came into the league with a reputation this guy is clutch lebron statistically has been but those early you know those first impressions that's right are very very powerful um you know there's so much of Kobe um to me one of the things. I got into this conversation the other day, and we were talking about Zion. And I said, Zion feels like to me he could be Dr. Jay. I don't think, and I'll, and Kobe's got some of this. Kobe had referenced Dr. Jay. Dr. Jay averaged 25 a game and eight rebounds. Flaws in his game. But there was a style and a cool to Dr. Jay. Michael Jordan was relentless. Kobe felt to me always like he was the artist in the league.

Like he could mimic some of Michaels, but his game was more fluid. That's why I think he was held in, not just his points, but like a Dr. Jay, there is an iconic nature to his being, his style. Kobe had style. Kobe was cool. I totally agree with you. And I think Jordan's game was graceful and pretty. but that is part of Kobe's attraction.

His game, not to keep bringing up LeBron, but he's compared to LeBron. His game is prettier than LeBron's. Yes, much more. LeBron's a Mack truck. Kobe is graceful. His dunks. I think Kobe's one of the greatest game dunkers ever.

People don't put him in that category, but he has some game ducks that are fabulous, powerful and graceful at the same time. He's what most people have said, the best tough shot maker, we've ever seen. Yeah, by far, the best tough shot maker of all time. So your game being pretty

and graceful, that is a part, that's part of what made him an icon is people love the way he looks. When he makes a move, it looks great. It's like Michael Jackson. I might be able to mimic some of his moves, but it's not

going to look as good as when Michael Jackson does it, because the way his body moves and his grace. That's how it is with Kobe. He can do the same move as another player and it's going to look better when Kobe does. You know, if you look, what is fascinating about basketball, think about Kareem, uh, Wilt, Magic, Shaq, and Kobe. So Wilt was the ultimate playboy. He loved Los Angeles. Carim was aloof. Right. Almost at times embarrassed by his size. Prickly at times. Here comes magic. Totally embraced Los Angeles. I want to

to live amongst the stars. Kobe, I'm going to go live in Orange County. I will dabble in it, but this is a basketball life. And then LeBron, from that, comes in more like magic, end of his career. That Kobe, to me, there were elements of Kobe that were like Kareem and that he was really bright and very introspective. Kobe made a choice, Chris, to not live in Beverly Hills or Bel Air. And I think, I mean, just your thoughts on that. It's really interesting that Kobe chose to keep L.A. Right. At Bay. At Bay until the end. Do you ever think about that? I think that's a great point. That's a great comparison to Kareem.

Because Kareem, as you say, highly intelligent, but aloof. I think that hurt Kareem in his post-N-B-A career. And I think it hurt Kobe in his early career. That's the thing. Remember, Kobe grew up, and I think you said this earlier, right before our eyes. From 17. to 37 and maybe even 40 years old, he was, he grew up in front of us. So we watched him. And I remember approaching Kobe Earl in his career. And there was, there was like a little social awkwardness and maybe a little aloofness or whatever. And then midway through his career as he got more comfortable in his own skin, as he matured like the rest of us do, except we don't have to do it

in front of the spotlight. You could see him get more and more comfortable with the media, more and more comfortable making comments and things like that. So he just matured and grew. Kareem, we never really saw that. But Kobe did do it. And the thing that I actually think is going to be a big part of Kobe's legacy, as great as it was physically on the court, I think mentally it is just as powerful, if not more. And the thing I take from him is whatever you do, whatever he did, he did it to be the best. He didn't. He didn't half step on anything. He didn't do anything to be mediocre. He didn't do anything because, hey, I'm Kobe Bryant. I can do it. It'll make money. If his heart wasn't in it, he didn't do it. So

when he played basketball, it was all basketball. He wasn't in movies and doing things like that. He was focused on basketball. Now, he did rap, but for the most part, it was straight basketball. Yeah. Then once he moved on, he took the obsessiveness. And then he took that obsessiveness to other areas. coaching his daughter, kids basketball, his short documentary. And that's why he could excel in everything he did, he excelled

because he focused on that thing. So when he left the league, like you said, he coached his daughter, he did the details, but he didn't have to be on every TV show broadcasting and commenting on the game. He could have easily. He wasn't at many Laker games

because he's with his family. So I think people can, learn from that. And a part of his legacy is whatever you do, go full bore at that thing. Go all in or you're in the way. Yep. And that was Kobe. Chris Broussard is joining us. It is great to have you here, Joy Taylor as well. We are in Miami, Miami Beach, one of our favorite places, one of the most beautiful places in the world. So as we go in and out of breaks for the next week, we'll be giving you these vistas and these views. I just want to show people who are dropping in. We are not working for the Chamber of Commerce, although it will feel

like that and we're so happy to be here and treated so well. People are getting jealous. Listen, I'm jealous. I'm making people mad. I could be in the beach in two hours. Chris Broussard joining us on the passing of Kobe Bryant and Gianna, his daughter, and others in a tragic event yesterday. One of the things, this is a, it's so sudden and it's so painful. And I use Whitney Houston, Michael Jackson, Kobe Bryant. They're taken too early. And we have all these moments and markers in life where we connected with them. So it's okay to cry. I got off a plane yesterday and from Atlanta and I had a text from friends and I went and found my next gate. I went in the back of a restaurant and wept. I had to be by myself. Then I got on my

plane and I sat down and I was sitting where in the aisle so people were walking past me and I'm like they're going to know who I am. I'm crying. Close my eyes and just and I thought to myself, you know, get it together. And I thought, no. This was 20. years of being in in this guy's galaxy. When you heard yesterday for the very first time, if I may, your initial thoughts, the first to reach out to you and the reactions from your encyclopedia and your rolodex, just take me to the first four to five minutes of it. Well, I was actually in the air myself. I was flying, I was on my way here through Chicago. So I was about to land in Chicago 15, 20 minutes before we landed.

I started getting phone calls. The same person or people calling me several times. I'm going, what's going on? And then I get a text that just says, OMG, from a good friend. OMG. And I'm like, I text back a question mark. And they said, Kobe died. And I'm thinking it can't be Kobe Bryant.

I know of no other Kobe, but it can't be. Kobe Bryant. Right. And then I text Kobe Bryant question mark and they said, you know, the helicopter and all. And I mean, I almost cried myself. I mean, I was distraught and I couldn't believe it. Yeah, it was like a punch to the gut. And even to this moment when I really think of the finality of it, that Kobe's not coming back. I feel that same feeling in my gut, you know. And so Then, you know, you start texting with people, people around the league, related to the league. And everybody has the same reaction. They're devastated.

They can't believe it. Is it true? And, you know, let me throw this, Chris, if I may. We were talking about this earlier is that as many great players as the NBA has had. And I, you know, I'm old enough that I remember watching the Lakers in 72 with Gail Goodrich, Jerry West, and Wilt, the Bill Sharman coach team. I'm aging myself. Millennials, I'm kind of old. There's been about seven to eight players

who have really crafted the image of the league. I think Dr. Jay is one. No doubt. I think it's a very short list. I think it's magic and bird. I think it's Michael. I think it's Shaq, Kobe, LeBron, and Steph because of the three-point shot.

Right. I have a very small list of people that when I think of the NBA, and its style and its coolness and its relatability to young people. Kobe's like one of eight to me. Am I short? Dr. J is the first person that made basketball to me. I would go out and mimic him in the yard.

Right, made it cool. He was the first guy. And there was a guy before him named Spencer Haywood. I'm going way too far back that had some of the same qualities. But I think Kobe's in that class. No, I agree because to this generation, he is there, Michael. Yes.

Now, whether you not, you think LeBron's better or whatever, Kobe's the guy they look at because, as we said, the grace, the beauty of his game. And we can't belittle this. He won five rings. Like, we, that's one reason we say Jordan's the goat is he won six. We, we may, who knows when the next time we'll see a guy win five rings? Steph's got three. LeBron is arguably the greatest we've ever seen.

He's got three in 16 full seasons. Durant has two. I don't know when we'll see a guy be the best player or the second best player on his team and win five championships. So Kobe is associated with grace, with toughness, with killer instinct, and with winning. You can't get a better combination than that. And I'll say this, Colin. And again, I won't criticize the NBA if they don't do it. I think they'll handle it the right way.

In my opinion, the NBA should retire Kobe's number eight and number 24 across the league. Totally agree. They've never, here's the reason. None of their icons, none of their superstars has ever passed away in the prime of his life. Moses Malone and Wilk Chamberlain, I believe, are the only MVP winners who aren't still alive. and they were in their 60s when they passed away, which most would look at as, okay, they lived a full life for the most part.

This is the first icon in the NBA that was cut short so early, and I think it's appropriate for them to honor him by retiring his jersey throughout the leave. And an immediate induction into the Hall of Fame. The NHL, if I recall, did that for Gretzky. There are several steps. They were like, what's the point of waiting for the boat?

Right. That makes sense. Immediate induction into the Hall of Fame for Kobe and retired the number. And I know this is a time when we're all very emotional, and there's a lot of suggestions. Those feel right and baseline right to me. Yeah. Chris, I appreciate this. Tough day for you.

We're really glad you're here. Thank you. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Kobe Bryant was drafted 13th, and that just seems crazy, right? But he did not play college, so you had to guess at some point. knew he was gifted. I've told the story before where Tim Legler, a former NBA player, once told me that he walked into a gym in Philadelphia. He was a member of the Sixers and said, who's that kid? I've never seen him in the NBA yet. And they said he's about to be a junior in high school.

It's Kobe Bean Bryant. So you can spot talent, but Kobe and Mahomes are being asked very quickly to be the face of the league because of our love affair with Michael Jordan. And Kobe's game, which often mirrored Michael, there were elements. I can remember interviewing Kobe very early in his life. He sounded like MJ. It's like when I started being a broadcaster, I would mimic Bob Costas or somebody that I had great reverence for. And then as Kobe aged, his game became more of his game. But the league asked Kobe very early to be an icon, Michael was leaving. There was nobody really ready to take it. And for advertisers and the style and the league and its advertisers and its fans,

they anointed Kobe is the next guy and he was voted an All-Star before he started as a Laker. Patrick Mahomes. And remember, MJ wasn't out of the league, but the end was near. Similarly, Brady is not out of the league, but the end is near. And Patrick Mahomes will now be asked commercially ad. he'll be offered a lot of things to be the face of the league. And I think in both instances, their dads having been athletes is a big bonus.

They watch the life before they live the life. I think to ask a 19-year-old or a 20-year-old to be the face, not of his team, but of a league, is a daunting experience. But Kobe, I thought, had a unique view of that world before he got in. And I think Mahomes, same thing because of his father. And there's a temperament I like about Patrick Mahomes. I said this. I have watched the NBA tried to make a variety of players the face of the league, and they have swung and missed several times.

I said, it's not Zion's game that will make him a perfect face of the league. That's not what it is. I don't think he's a magic, a LeBron, or a Kobe. I don't. but he has the temperament. He is relatable and he's likable and he loves the game and he is fun and he's a little flashy, but he's serious when it comes down to basketball. And I think Kobe and Mahomes have that. Mahomes is innocent yet experienced, fun yet serious, add libs a lot, but can play within the structure of a highly complex system. And not only have the fathers of Kobe,

and Patrick Mahomes, given them a view of the life. I think this is also important. When my father, there was a divorce, he left the house. My coaches became surrogate fathers in my high school. Steve Bridge, my high school football coach, Jim Con, my high school basketball coach. I think it's very advantageous to Kobe that he very quickly inherited. Adele Harris was a grown-up and Phil Jackson, kind of stoic, cerebral, mature coaches. Similarly, Patrick Mahomes inherits Andy Reed, a stable, workaholic, highly cerebral, sort of stoic personality.

So you need some breaks to go your way when you become the face of a franchise. We've said this before. If Tom Brady doesn't end up in New England, there's a different book written. He would certainly be great. But I really think it was important for Kobe and Mahomes. When I look at Mahomes, I see the temperament. It's right. the personality's right. He's fun but serious, ad libs but can do complex, can be silly, but feels like a 24-year-old

grown-up. And I think his dad deserves credit, and I think the Andy Reid's and the Phil Jackson's, and the Del Harris says he deserves credit too, are very important when we ask 23-year-old people, Kobe was 19, hey, be the face of the league. Remember, Tom Brady, when he was winning Super Bowls in New England initially. It was Belichick in the defense and the kicker. I mean, it was sort of like like, yeah, we're winning with Brady, but it's, that's not with Mahomes. Mahomes is front and center. He's going to

carry Kansas City, and Kobe was front and center. Wasn't about the coaching. It was about the kid. So we're going to watch these experiences and I thought, by and large, Kobe handled it very well. Anybody that would have a camera on them and wealth

very early would have stumbled and had bad moments. He did. Let's not hide those. Kobe's life was imperfect. And Patrick Mahomes will have some missteps. This is going to be okay. We don't ask our kids to be in front of the camera at 18, 19 years old. But I really like what I see with Mahomes.

I like the stability in his coaching staff, the stability in his family. He played some college football. He was a three-star prospect. He was a grinder. He did not go to a football power. Texas Tech offered. No other big school did. if you qualify that as a big school, it's in the Big 12.

So I think the NFL is in really, really good hands. It's very difficult for these teams. Steph Curry has this component. His dad lived the life before Steph lived the life. So the Warriors can feel very comfortable handing the franchise to Steph, and then essentially at some point handing the league to him. We ask a lot of our music stars and our Hollywood stars and our athletic stars.

And occasionally when you're really gifted, you're asked to carry an industry. And the first thing I look at was Zion is not his game. It's his temperament. He is really built to be the face of the league if you watch him. He really handles himself with grace and class.

For a kid, I wasn't nearly that mature at Zion's age. And so I think the NFL's in really good hands. And I've said this before about the NFL. the best athlete now plays quarterback. And so it used to be, quarterbacks dropped back and then gave the ball to the great athletes,

and they did a lot of the spectacular things. Now the quarterback is the best athlete. He does the spectacular things, and that's very attractive to advertisers and fantasy fans. We're going to have multiple mega stars in football over the next 20 years at the quarterback position. They'll make the plays. They won't need the backs and the receivers.

And what I will look at with Lamar Jackson and Patrick Mahomes or a Sam Darnold is the temperament, not the game. Can you handle it? Because it is a lot to ask. I've said this before. I was a late bloomer in life. There is no way you could have given me a franchise like Kobe Bryant at 19. I was simply not ready for it. I would have been emotionally, forget physically.

I would have been emotionally overwhelmed. Mahomes is a baby, but it feels right to me. That he's got it, he's smart, he's got all the elements, he's got a great support system at home, and a remarkable support system with Andy Reid. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app.

Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode we're cutting through the noise.

Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action. with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to SportsSlice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife-Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit.

suit of the thing. We get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve

Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me. Kier Gains is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway.

Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, A, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rep.

My mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Conky, his best friend and business.

manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We are lucky today to have Jim Jackson, who works on the NBA circuit as well. Jim played in the NBA for 15 years. You were a teammate of Kobe Bryant, 2005, 2006. Let's start with his legendary work ethic. You're a worker yourself.

You hear stories about Kobe at practice. Take me there. It's interesting, Kyle. because let's not get a twist. A lot of guys in the NBA work hard. Yeah. And they put into work. But it's the attention to detail, I think, that separated Colby, Michael, guys of that ilk,

of how they perfected their sport. It was just like little things that he would dissect in practice when he's working out individually, watch tape, understanding how to create space, what he could do on the court, how guys are going to defend him, how he's going to defend people. And he would incorporate that into his workout, whether it was training, shooting, whatever it was. It was real methodical, but it had purpose to it. You know, it's interesting. You played against Michael and you played with and against Kobe Bryant. Kobe was a better defensive player than people give him credit for 12 times all defensive team. We know about Michael's defensive prowess. When they guarded you, you were a dominating high school

college score and a very good NBA score. them defending you. Were there similarities or differences? It was similarities. Michael was probably a little bit stronger. Yeah. Okay, from that perspective. But Kobe, what he tried to do is really get up into you, make you uncomfortable. Okay, I mean, really get up into you. And a lot of times he had, you know, help in the background, especially when he played with Shaq. Right.

So that gave him a little bit more leverage to really take away what a player did. But it went back to here's what Michael and Kobe did so well. and a lot of great defensive players. They understood the strengths of a player and they try to take that away. Okay? Now, in the NBA, I don't care who it is. It's tough to stop somebody individual, especially when you have talent. Even the great defensive players can.

Even the great, because you're going to get so many touches. That's like Guard, Michael, and Kobe, I don't care what you do. Eventually, they're going to get their points. This is a matter, can you make him less efficient? Kobe was the type where he was great off the ball, defenders playing the passing lanes. But on the ball, he kind of just got up into you, got lower than you, tried to force you to help,

force you away from what you did well, and that's what made them special defensively. You know, it's the Kobe Shack marriage. I said this earlier. I always kind of defended it when it broke up. It was a band with two lead singers. There was no Robin. No.

I mean, Pippen always relinquished the final shot. So did Mikhail. We saw a little Steph and KD, but Steph again really hoisted up, KD. It's your team now. You had Shaq and Kobe in their primes. This was bound not to, in my opinion, what we got out of it is more than we could have ever hoped for. But, you know, it's difficult to, when you look at the history of the game, even when you had Oscar and Kareem, Oscar was a little bit older.

Okay. So he couldn't quantify. Earl Monroe, Clyde Frazier, they're both a little bit older, so they understood it. Okay. So when you had Shaq and Kobe, this was a dynamic where they were still relatively young. even though Shaq was older. He came out of my class in, you know, 92. So we haven't seen that dynamic

where you had two alpha males at the height of their careers. 20-80 game both. That had to kind of get along with two different personalities. You had one who loved to play was fun, joking, and Shaq. You had this serious young guy

that was all about winning and just take the job serious and you can't have any days off. And that was an interesting dynamic. But the linchpin to that was having Field Jackson to bring that merits together to make it work. You retired and you love, you have a deep passion for golf and cigars. Yeah.

Kobe, I read a quote as he was moving into retirement and he said, I have to take my obsessive personality and I just have to put it in another basket and it became coaching in fatherhood. Talk about, he transitioned very well, almost a Derek Jeter. Peyton Manning segue into retirement. You had to do it. It's not as easy as people think. No, because here's the dynamic. In sports in general, and Joy, you can relate to this with Jason.

It's a small percentage of guys that can walk away from the game the way they want. I don't care what sport it is. Small percent. It was extremely hard for Peyton Manning to walk away despite what he accomplished in his career because he was injured on the backside. What Kobe was the same way, because even though he went out and said, I'm a retired, he didn't go out. the way he wanted because he was injured.

So you got to keep that in mind. People say, well, you got all this money. You should just retire. That's it. No, you've been doing this your whole life. And then all of a sudden, a lot of times it just comes to an end. Right. And you have no control over that.

This is something, you know, you're custom to in the summertime working out, getting ready for training camp. That's your routine for 20 years. Then all of a sudden it comes to an end and it's just supposed to be like, oh, okay, I'm just going to go do something else. No. So that's why the preparation part of when you're playing helps the transition a lot more. And I do believe Kobe the last two years, the immortality feeling of my career is coming to an end started to sink in.

Because you saw it how he reacted to his teammates a lot more. If you watch him in his interviews, he was a lot more open. And giving. And giving. He was a giver at the end. But I will say this, the things that happened in his life prepared him for fatherhood. and also that transition post-basket. Because within his stories and his animation,

it was filled with what happened to him and why he was Kobe Bryant, why he was playing. So that prepped him for getting that Oscar because it was all deep feelings on what happened and how he prepared himself and how now he's a better father, a better husband, a better friend because of that journey that he went through the NBA.

What do you think, you run the NBA today, you're Adam Silver. How do we immortalize Kobe? Well, right now it has to be strategic because when something like this happens, immediately you want to put pen to paper and say, we got to do this. But you have to make something that makes sense long term, not just for the short term. It's easy to have a memorial for Kobe today, tomorrow like David Stern. But you got to make sure once you're immortalized them that this thing makes sense. forever because of what their legacies, I think, leave behind.

And you have to be able to do it justice. You just can't give them something here to say, okay, yeah, Kobe, this is how we want to do. No, this has to be special because what we were able to witness, and I cautioned people about this all the time, and I use LeBron as an example, when greatness comes about, you better embrace it and enjoy it. Thank you. Because it's not going to be here for long. So to have what we've been able to see in our lifetime, the Tom Brady's, the Joe Montanas, the Jerry Rice's, when you go to Wayne Gretzke's, the Tiger Woods, and the list goes on.

But when you put that in the vacuum of all of the athletes, it's a small few that really touch us like that. Yes, we can critique them. Yes, that's our job. But embrace the greatness while we have it, not when they leave. You know, and I think too many times we do that. Yeah, and music, we're very good at celebrating the greatness while it's on the radio. Yep. While it's in the stadium.

And then in television, we tend to be a bit more comparative, cynical, and punitive. And Kobe's life was imperfect. I will say this. He was an icon by about 19 to 20. That's a lot to ask. A minute left. We made him an icon. We put him on an all-star team.

He wasn't a starter. But you know what the thing about Kobe, I love? I love the people that I admire to be flawed, okay? Because being flawed allows you to be human. And the beauty about Kobe is that he accepted those flaws, I mean, with the best of them. He said, yeah, this is who I am. Put it out there. I'm gonna put it out there.

And those flaws made him who he is what's going to be today before the death, okay? A lot of people will go away from that and try to hide something. Kobe tell you flat out, no, I'm going to be the best. I don't care who it is. I don't care what you think. Shaq, he didn't work hard, so what? I'm all about championship. This is who I am.

He didn't hide behind it. The stuff that happened in Colorado, you know what? Made him a better father and husband. That's why I love Kobe Bryant. Well said, Jim, thanks for stopping by today. Jim Jackson, well said. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind,

and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. In every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment,

and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicalife 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite, unhumor me with Robert Smiley. and friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you

funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee.

We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at?

Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart Radio ad. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season.

And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was part of you. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game 7, Marquis keep coming to you. He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love.

This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the I Heart Radio. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.