The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Best of The Herd for 06/11/2019

Episode Date: June 11, 2019

Colin says you can't blame anyone for the Kevin Durant injury however the Warriors guilt may cause them to offer a max contract to him anyway. He defends Nick Nurse calling a time out during the Raptors big run in game 5. Plus, 3x NBA Champion turned agent BJ Armstrong comes in studio to discuss how to handle playing hurt like Durant and what it was like playing with Michael Jordan and the Bulls. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and IHeart Podcasts presents soccer moms. So I'm Leanne. Yeah. This is my best friend, Janet. Hey. And we have been joined at the hip since high school. Absolutely. A redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip.

Just a little bit bigger. hips. This is a podcast we're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey. With all the snacks and drinks. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Oh, they hit a bogo. Well, then you got it. Listen to soccer moms on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to the best of heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday. From 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream live every day on the IHeartRadio app by searching herd.

This is the best of the herd with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio. Ah, here we go. This is The Herd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening. We are live in Los Angeles, IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio. It is great to have you, no TV at all this week. We will have a game six of the NBA. finals. Joy Taylor is joining me. BJ Armstrong, Frist Broussard,

Rick Buker, Rashad Phillips, who last year, he's a draft guy, came on and told us Trey Young was going to be a star in the NBA. They'll be joining us next hour. Joy, how are you? I'm great. What a night, huh? It's crazy. This whole series has had so many, I mean, from an owner shoving a player to four straight

road wins. I don't remember a finals where home court means nothing in this series. I think Toronto is going to come out in game six and crush the Warriors Oracle. I really do. I think they're going to crush him. So let's talk about the KD injury. They're doing an MRI.

They think it's an Achilles tear. So this is going to be the blame game. This is the way social media works. It's the pylon culture. It's just going to blame everybody today. So let me start with this. Katie wanted to play. I was told this morning by a source in the Bay Area

that KD had tuned out people that told him don't play. There's plenty of people in KD's circle within the Warriors and outside of the Warriors, that had told KD, dude, you could re-injure this thing. KD heard what he wanted to hear, and we've all done that. You know, folks, it's part of the alpha male of Americans. American workers take fewer vacation days than the rest of the world. We go to work sick more than the rest of the world, and KD. wanted to play.

I also texted a pro athlete last night, and he said to me, a friend of mine said, listen, man, when you are sitting out during a championship game, you feel completely detached. You don't feel like you're part of the team. We're not China dolls here, man. We're men. We're alphas. We got $150 million net worth. We want to play. We want to be part of the group. We want to be guys. And that's part of what makes pro athletes, pro athletes, the obstacles they overcome, the guts, the moxie, the metal. Katie wanted to play. Secondly, everybody plays hurt. Buggy's hurt. Did you watch Kayvon Looney last night? What if he re-injured his chest? Would you want to sue the Warriors then? What

of Boogie's muscle popped out of his skin last night. Clay Thompson popped a hammy. You don't think he could have repop to hammy? I mean, everybody in this series is hurt. I mean, Kauai Leonard, until that two-minute burst was shot. He was literally a boxer running from punches. He, like, didn't want any part of the game. The other thing is the warrior doctors cannot predict an Achilles tear. Okay? And then finally, he wasn't limping around. Durant look great. In fact, my argument, I was watching them early and I'm like, dude, slow it down. Ease yourself into the game. You had like 12 points and 11 minutes. So Kevin Durant was like chomping at the big, get me out there, give me the ball, want to score. And listen, when you get injured,

I've been injured three or four times in my life. I'm not a pro athlete, but I work out every day. Every single time I've been injured, I come back early. Why? Because I'm a guy and I'm stupid. And I want to do stuff and I want to, I want to ski. I want to lift weights. I want to run. I want to go to the beach and play volleyball. I've come back early every time. And you know what happens? I re-aggravate something. I pulled my groin on the right side years ago. I wanted to jog.

Doctor said I'd wait another week. I jogged. Left side pulled it. You often tear the opposite side of your body because these are professional athletes. They're not like us. I mean, good God, look at the wear and tear in this series. San Francisco, five and a half hour flight, Toronto, five and a half hour flight, San Francisco, five and a half hour. I did that once.

I'd need two now and a half hour flight in a half hour. These guys are pro athletes. They're burning 7,000 calories a night. They're all hurt. I'm not a doctor, but bodies tend to punish you when you're impatient. And Kevin Durant is an alpha, and he was impatient. And the other thing, let's be totally honest about this. Circumstances dictate action.

If this wasn't the finals, he wouldn't be playing. It's the finals. In fact, if they were leading three to one, he wouldn't be playing. Kevin Durant would be like, I'm going to take a high. And they wouldn't let him play. I mean, they'd be like, we're not giving you a uniform. We're leading three to one. This was one of these alpha, everybody's hurt, dynasty in the making, KD's legacy, the team needed him.

The doctors are like, well, you're not going to make a calf strain worse than a calf strain. But, you know, so listen, Bob Myers, this is how emotional it was. If you think everybody here is just callous for the Warriors, here's the guy that runs their basketball operations after the game last night. I don't believe there's anybody to blame, but I understand this world. And if you have to, you can blame me. And let me tell you something about Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant loves to play basketball. And the people that questioned whether he wanted to get back to this team were wrong.

Okay, there was honesty, there was transparency, everybody knew there was a risk. It stinks, it's lousy, and it happens. By the way, Durant's been hurt before. He's a seven-foot body that was not 100% came back early with an incredible desire to help his team. And he torn Achilles. It stinks. It's awful. It's terrible.

But he wasn't limping around when he came back. This was not Willis Reed. He was a best player on the floor for 12 minutes. And it happens. And it's called sports. That's called American sports. Folks, Joy Taylor's brother played in the NFL. Well, if you're in a Super Bowl or a conference championship at halftime,

there's a reason they've got needles and balls back in that locker room. You play. Gronk, you just wrap stuff up and you play. Now, the good news is most Americans who go to work sick, reaggravate it and get sicker, don't get $135 billion contract. And that's where I want to segue to now. Listen, what's next? The chances are he could miss next year.

Okay. Remember, Brady missed a year, Stockton missed a year, Michael missed a year, David Robinson missed a year, Tony Romo, Cam, Garoppolo, Manning. It's sports. This happens. If I'm KD, I would opt in with Golden State either for a year at $31 million, because he can do that. Or I'd opt out, and I believe Golden State law from a five-year max, and then Draymond's gone in one year. listen, many teams, the rest of the market may have question about KD's health. But I learned something years ago. I read a lot about this that in divorces, the dumper feels guilty.

The dump-e can benefit. And the Warriors feel guilty this morning. And they're going to pay Kevin Durant a max. If he opts out, they're going to pay him a five-year max. And they will. And I would if I was Kevin Durant's stay. First of all, he's a good guy. Second of all, he's taken several team-friendly deals with a warrior, so Iggy gets paid and Livingston gets paid.

He's taking team-friendly deals. He's a two-time finals MVP. There's a guilt factor, and he's the best player in the world. Opt out. They'll sign him to a five-year deal, even if it costs just $700 million, which it will when it's all done for going over the salary cap. good guy help create the dynasty you'll get at least one more title

with him and here's another thing and this I've seen this my entire life the last time this country felt like we were all on the same team not Democrats not Republicans not red not blue when was it

remember think about this for a second when's the last time America was on the same team Didn't last long, but we were. Crisis. George Bush, arm around a fireman. Remember that? Crisis brings people together, folks. Katie feels like a warrior today.

He feels like family. He needs help. You don't bail on family members. It's weird about crisis. Crisis brings enemies together, politics together, Americans together, countries together, people together, teams together, stars together, free agents together. This is a crisis.

Kevin Durant needs love. He needs help. Do you see Steph and Iggy taking him into the locker room? You know, Kevin Durant to me always felt like a little bit like a hired gun. He was almost like an independent contractor. We're signing Kevin Durant. He's going to come on, make a bunch of baskets. And he's going to leave.

He doesn't feel like that today. He feels like family. Kevin Durant today is family. You don't bail on family. either you ask him to opt out, let us sign you to a five-year deal. You've been taking pay cuts for years. You need us. For the first time in this relationship, you need us.

We needed you. Today we, Kevin, we need, you need us a little bit. You gave us a bunch of deals. You took us to another level. I know in the moment, this seems awful. I get it. But it's weird how crisis works. and it brings people together and teams together and families together.

I mean, I'm sure there's people listening. You've had estranged members of your family and a brother doesn't talk to a sister, doesn't talk to a cousin, and somebody dies, the patriarch. The mom passes away in the family. And for at least a while, it brings everybody together. And Stefan Iggy walking him to the locker room last night, that was an incredible emotional moment. And I don't think Durant, until last night, ever felt,

like truly a warrior. He felt like a hired gun. Come in, do your job, independent contractor. But Clay Thompson afterwards talked about the need and just the relationship with KD. I got nothing. And as every NBA fan should have nothing about respect for Kevin Durant. For him to come out here, put his health on the line to try and help us win the championship, shows you what kind of competitor he is. And it was very deflating after the game just because we're going to miss him. And it's not the same. not being out there competing with him. I think anyone would be happy to have him on their team,

but running out on the floor tonight, we had a new sense of confidence getting a guy back. So it hurt to see him go down because we know how much he cares and how much he wants to be out here. First of all, KD had the best plus-minus of any player last night. Second of all, did you see the energy when KD came back? Do you see how much energy the Warriors had? Everybody.

Steph had an incredible first quarter. Kevin Durant. And I felt like at the end of the game, they were kind of playing for Kevin Durant. So I know people are going to blame today. They're going to pile on. That's what Twitter does. That's what social media does. But there's no real blame here today.

I don't believe there is. And secondly, crisis creates a bond strangely. Unfortunately, sometimes it's the only thing that brings us together. And I think the warriors, for the first time, Kevin Durant needs them. and I think he should opt out, then they'll sign him to a max. I just don't understand why he would hobble out to the Knicks. I just don't get it. Like this is the time more than ever.

You re-signed with the family. Last game at Oracle tonight. You don't get to play it. You play for the next four or five years. You know, and it's just so strange how it works. You know, Kevin Durant's different. He's got a little bit of an aloof personality. He's sensitive.

He's complex, but he's aloof at the same time. Like he's distant, but uniquely concerned about what you think about him. And it's amazing to me how I felt this morning driving in for all the oddities. I mean, he grew up, you know, I'm sure he was like six, eight in like the ninth grade. You know, it's a different world to live in when you're Wilk, Kareem, you're a seven-footer. And he's a little detached sometimes and a little aloof, but he's uniquely concerned. about how you think. And, you know, even Bob Myers said he's just wildly misunderstood.

Last night was the first time you like, I got him. I was like, oh, Jesus, that poor kid. Just wanted to matter. Just wanted to be important. Just wanted the city to put his arm around him. Felt a little bit detached and guilty that he wasn't there for his team. He wanted to change the narrative. He put his body on the line and it broke.

and it just, it broke. And I just sat there and I'm like, oh, this poor kid. In San Francisco, the ovation he will get, just entering the arena for game six is worth watching the finals for how they treat KD when he stands and waves. Still think Toronto wins big, game six. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd, weekdays and noon Easter. They're 9 a.m. Pacific.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves.

Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsClyce on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist,

Kier Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase

that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, our Heart Radio app.

Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me.

He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game.

We get a player's perspective on the table. challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing.

That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, I said, you? you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I do like Toronto to win game six in the bay by a lot. Kevin Durant and the Warriors, together are 9 and 1 in the finals, and I'm counting last night as a win.

So he's played 10 finals games. KD has played with the Warriors, and they're 9 and 1, and they're 8. eight and nine without KD in the finals. So that kind of tells you they're way better with him in the finals than without him. And I don't think, I've said it before. The one thing I said before the series, I had Golden State in six. And that was thinking Kevin Durant would play is Golden State is small without Kevin Durant. They're tiny.

They're just, you're going to pray that Boogie Cousins gives you six minutes here, six minutes there. Toronto is big and long. Sir Jabatka. I mean, good God, Pascal Seacom, for his size, is absurdly athletic. I mean, for a seven-footer, that kid runs the floor. My entire life, I grew up watching seven-footers lumber up the floor. He runs like a two-guard. He's seven feet tall.

Mark Gassal can play the perimeter or low. Toronto is long, and the Warriors have a cluster injury. All their bigs are hurt. Looney's probably not going to play. KD's out. I think Golden State gets throttled in game six. I don't think Oracle means anything. Road teams won four straight games.

The other thing is Nick Nurse is the coach for the Raptors. He's getting killed today because they had this run, like a 10-0-0 run, and then he called a timeout and then Golden State played really well. First of all, these are two totally exhausted teams. And both these teams are having these little microbursts, 8-0-0 run, 8-2 run. Kauai gave you nothing all night. and then he had a 10-point burst that lasted two minutes. And Nick Nurse said, this is not a Raptor burst.

This is a Kauai Leonard burst, and he shot and he called a timeout. I'm hearing everybody go, oh, Raptors were on an amazing run. No, they weren't. Kauai Leonard was on an amazing run for two and a half minutes. And then before it and after it, he gave you nothing. And Nick Nurse is like, okay, we just had a great run. Timeout, sit Kauai down. He had four straight shots.

This wasn't a Raptors run. was the Kauai run. He played 41 minutes. Everybody else in that team averaged about 29 to 31. By the way, if you take away Kauai's 10 points in the fourth, Toronto at home had 17. And Kauai didn't score in the last 328, and the Raptors made one basket in that. It wasn't like everybody last night was giving them anything. It was, they were struggling to get offense. He carried a team gasping for air. Kauai did for two and a half minutes. and they turned a three-point deficit into a six-point lead because of one guy taking four shots.

And by the way, I think we've all acknowledged that Nick Nurse has had a very good series as a coach. I tend to believe coaches know their roster better than I do. I thought Golden State won the game because they played very good offense late. I thought they passed the ball beautifully. And, you know, Steve Kerr rested his starters, by the way, at the beginning of the fourth for about three minutes.

Remember that weird lineup they put in? He rested Steph. Well, Steph had legs late in the game. And remember that awful lineup they put in that the announcers, Mark Jackson and Van Gundy were making fun of at the beginning of the fourth? This Golden State lineup, it is offensively challenged. It's mighty nice of you. I give Steve Ferrell a lot of credit.

This lineup is not a lineup I would go with my championship life on the line. It was just too small and weird. and odd, but that three-minute break gave Steph and Clay some legs, gave Seth some legs, and Steph was very good late, hit a big three. So I get it. We're all smarter than the coach, but this idea that it was a great Raptor run, no, it was maybe the best player in the world, just like, Kauai looked like a fighter. You know, I've covered enough boxing that was just like nothing left. And then in the ninth round, with about 18 seconds left, just gives you everything he's got, lays it on the line, bell rings, you're done.

time out, you go to the corner, Nick Nurse knows what he's doing. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. You never want to negotiate against yourself. The Lakers may very well be negotiating right now with nobody else except the Pelicans because I'm not sure the Nets have the picks to furnish the Pelicans with enough to get AD and the NICs don't have any players. And I do think the Lakers Rich Paul is LeBron's agent and Anthony Davis's. I think ideally they would like LeBron a great asset in their agency to go and have another star.

So I think Rich Paul wants Anthony Davis to be a Laker. I think Anthony Davis wants to be a Laker. I think LeBron wants Anthony Davis to be a Laker. I think the Lakers want Anthony Davis to be a Laker. You have all the power. Lakers, LeBron, Rich Paul, Anthony. You have all the power here. Do not give up the farm for Amher.

Anthony Davis. Just think about math. So the three best teams in the NBA this year, I can make an argument. Milwaukee, Toronto Warriors. They all averaged 118 a game. Toronto averaged a little less, but in that 115 to 117 to 118 a game. So LeBron averages, let's say, 27 next year, 27.5. AD comes in and averages 26, 26.5.

That's 54 points. All right. Where are you getting the other 70? You can't give up Lonzo. You can't give up Coosma. You can't give up Ingram. You can't give up Josh Hart. Lonzo, Ingram and Coosma averaged 18.

Lonzo averaged 10. That's 46, 47 points. Right there. You can't give that up. Okay, AD and LeBron giving you 54 a night, 55. You're driving to the arena every night. We got 55. You got to keep at least Coosma.

Because now I drive to the arena knowing I can get 74. I got 74 in the bank as we drive to the arena. to the arena. Then I can figure out how to cobble together 12 here, 10 there. But it's just math. The teams that are the best in this league can score every night you drive to the arena getting 116. That's what you got to score in the NBA now in the regular season to get to the playoffs and to get a home court advantage. You got to get to about 116, 115 if you're Toronto and play really great defense, 114. Okay, LeBron and Anthony Davis, there's 54. he needs 70 more points.

And I think they're negotiating against themselves. I really do. Anthony Davis is only interested, he says, in two teams. Remember, the Pelicans came out and announced, okay, we want an all-star, a potential all-star, and two draft picks. Why did they announce that? Because the Pelicans want the Lakers and the Knicks to feel, a little fear, a little, oh, oh, it's slipping away.

But remember, for the teams trading for Anthony Davis, they're looking to compete for a championship quickly. You can't do that if you give up three good players. You can't do it. So I think the Lakers are completely in the catbird seat. I mean, Joy and I talked about this 10 minutes ago. I think at the trading deadline, the Pelicans had all the power.

screwed it up because they got emotional and Del Dams and everybody freaked out. They could have had six guys. I'm the Lakers. I say Kuzma Ingram, take your choice. You pit, we'll, we'll, I think they like Ingram. I think Ingram has a higher ceiling. So I go to the Pelicans. I say, you could have my number four pick.

You can have Brandon Ingram. And I would negotiate hard to get them another player and I can keep Lonzo. So I give you a four and a Brandon Ingram and play hardball. And who else is going to? I mean, again, Rich Paul and Anthony Davis now have the power. And that's what negotiations in my lifetime have always been about. Where's the power? Does my company need me?

Do they not need me? What's the urgency? What's the economy like? You know, it's Pelicans have Zion. They have. They want to get one of those other picks. They got Drew Holiday. They'd like to add an element to it.

But I don't think the Nets have the draft picks. They have the All-Star, but not the potential All-Star and the draft picks. The Lakers have the draft picks and potential All-Stars, but not the Star. The next don't have anything. I mean, the next have draft picks. It seems to me, if I'm David Griffin, you've got to give me more than just draft picks. You've got to give me players. I'm not going to have Zion playing with 18-year-old.

You've got to give me something there. So I think the Lakers are a very, very interesting situation. There are reports now that Anthony Davis only wants the NICs or the Lakers. And there are other reports. The NICs, if they do it, want to get it done 48 hours. So if the NICs don't get what they want in 48 hours, they may move off to other stuff. But remember, the finals could end in a couple days. The teams want to get the AD done deal done a couple days.

And the draft is next, what, Thursday? So a lot of people want to get stuff wrapped up. The league wants to get stuff wrapped up. Players want to get agents want to get it wrapped up before the draft. This is going to be a good week. Good next four or five days. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app.

Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves.

Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action. with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit, suit of the thing. We get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't

realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth

or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me. Join me. Kier Gains is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff.

Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Brett. My mama want you to weigh better. What? Where's he at?

Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. and finding ways to win no matter what.

He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup,

he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stopped by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying.

He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah. You figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. BJ Armstrong, now an agent, three-time champ and an All-Star over a decade in the NBA. You remember, of course.

Those seven, eight years were the Chicago Bulls. Teammates with Steve Kerr in Chicago for two years. You represent, by the way, Derek Rose. We just talked about this off the air. So Kevin Durant's a man. He's heard the narrative. It's Steph's team. You're not there. There's just personal guilt.

You feel detached. I totally sympathize with Kevin Durant saying, I'm getting out there. I'm giving you 25 minutes. You know, you represent Derek Rose. He went through this. Yes. Brutal. Colin, it really is. It's such a dilemma for these young men.

And, you know, that was one of the reasons I got into the business is because I, you know, to a lesser degree, had to go through this in my own personal playing days. You know, I went through like six surgeries. I had six surgeries as a player. And I wish I would have had someone to speak with that had the institutional knowledge of the effects of what this is going to happen to you once you're done playing.

And what I mean by that is, you know, as a player, the player, BJ wanted to play. There was no doubt about it. But Benjamin, you know, that's my name, Benjamin, the person, you know, you have to have a way to think about this. Like, wait a minute, if I go out there and play, am I really respecting the game? Because once you have a lower extremity injury,

you never feel on balance. So what do you think? What do you think Rich Climmon, his agent was telling KD? I have no idea. But what I do know is, you know, when I went with this with Derek, when he was injured, D.Rose that character, the MVP, this explosive guard, averaging 25, 26 points a game, D. Rose was ready to come back. But at a certain point, I had to talk to Derek and say, Derek, let's think about this,

because you not only have now, you have to think about your career and what you're going to do and think about the big picture here. And that is the dilemma for all of these athletes, right? If the person isn't developed, the player will never develop. And right now, I would hope that whoever Kevin confides

and with his inner circle, that he's able to say, Kevin has to come to the front now because KD is injured. Because all athletes, to some, agree. You're Superman. They were a cape. Absolutely. But you go Clark can't. Yes. So now with this injury, you're faced with, okay, what am I going to do? The person now has to come

to the fore. And you have to be able to wait to take this information because the athlete in all of us, I can do this. Right. And once an athlete turns the light off, it's off. It's off. So as an athlete, you have to keep the light on. But at some point, the person has to be be able to say, you know what, out of respect to the game, I can't play the game because physically I'm not ready or maybe I'm just not ready to perform at the way I need to perform at this time. I watch Kevin get hurt and my take away was, I'm Jimmy Butler, I'm Kauai Leonard, I'm Clay Thompson, I'm Kyrie Irving. I'm not giving up guaranteed money. I'm amazed at this as an agent. I'm Kauai Leonard. You're my agent. Yes. I'll reverse it. You're Kauai. I'm the

agent. Okay. So are you sure, Kauai, when you go to L.A., they're going to give you 24 games off load management? Because there are going to be billboards up all over the town about the culture of the clippers. You don't have to worry about that here. You've got 25 games off. That's a real thing to me.

Well, I think the work environment and being able to understand what's real and what's not real, you know, many times with this money, and we're talking about these max players, right? The Kauai Lennards and the players of that magnitude, of that level comes of responsibility.

And the responsibility is now that you've been paid, now you've got to perform. That's the X factor. And with that comes the expectations of, we did our part. Now it's time for you to do your part. The owner, the GM, the fans, the media. We're all like, we don't know 24 load management games.

Yes. So with that comes a responsibility. And I think, again, those are the things that you have to think it all the way through. You can't just continue to say, I did it there because every situation, every environment is different. And if you find something that works for you, stick with it. And that would be my advice to Kauai. If you found something that works for you.

Toronto. You know, funny story, Colin, this is when Michael went and when he went to Washington. Yeah. And I had saw him over the summer and we were working out. And he comes back to me and he said, you know what? I had to go and play with the Washington Wizards to have an appreciation for what all of you guys did for me playing in Chicago. And he had an appreciation that we understood what he needed to be Michael Jordan. And we understood and he understood what he needed to do so that we can be a great team. And once you find that chemistry, you stick with it.

You know, BJ, I have a saying in life, I tell my kids this. Don't try to get happier than happy. It's hard to be happy. I want to be super happy if you start taking exits off the interstate that are bad decisions. And I was so appreciative of that because I knew he always appreciated what we did for him as the role players playing with the great player. But the fact that he acknowledged it and saw that, you know what, it was a great fit. It was, you know, playing with the BJ Armstrongs, the Scotty Pippins, the Steve Kerr's, and all of the role players who allowed him to be what he needed to be.

and then he understood what we needed from him. And it was just a great fit. And it took for him to go play somewhere else to go, God, that was a right thing for me at that time. And you have to learn those lessons. And hopefully Kauai and all these other players, when it fits, it fits. You don't know why, but it just fits.

There's an old saying in baseball, nobody loves you like the team that drafts you because they got to put you in the minors for five years. They have to groom you. by the time you get to the majors, you're their baby. Yes. And then you get traded and make a lot of money in another team, but they didn't put the work in. They didn't put the time.

So Michael finally figured out, you know, he had to leave to go, God, everybody got me. Everybody got it. But what about this whole thing about guys that leave to go home again? Like Kauai, I'm from L.A. DeRosen, I'm from L.A. Kevin Durand doesn't seem to have any interest in D.C. I think going home again can be a trap. Yeah, it's tough.

And, you know, every player. that I've worked with and every client that I've had that had to go home because there's so many other distractions. You have family, you're from there, friends, and there's more expectations when you come

home. When the band comes home, they've got to get tickets for everybody. Yes, and so that's tough. Playing at home, it takes a special personality to be able to manage that because you need a team of people around you to really help you navigate all of the things

that, you know, when I got drafted in Chicago, I was a kid from Detroit. So I was just getting adjusted, didn't really know anyone, and it was an easy transition. You could be selfish and do your own thing. Absolutely. But if I played in Detroit, I got to get my aunts and my uncles and my friends and my parents and high school coaches. God, that seems like a pain of the butt. Yeah, it is. Because the one thing, Colin, that young people, when you come into this league, and I had to learn it the hard way as well,

saying you have to learn how to say no. And if you're playing at home, how do you say no to people who grew up and really know you? And so I think that's the most difficult thing is learning how to say no, especially when you're younger, when you first come in this league. B.J. Armstrong, an NBA champ three times with MJ's Bulls,

teammates with Steve Kerr, a couple of different years, NBA All-Star as well, and now an agent for the Wasserman group. You know, I said when I watched these finals, Kauai is running out of gas, but he's not hurt. I could make the argument that players around the league are looking at that load management business decision, Kauai made, and I'm thinking if I'm James Harden, I'm taking 22 games off. I mean, seriously, I mean, James looked tired.

Do you think it's possible? And I don't think it's great for the league, but that a lot of people are looking at Kauai and thinking, you know what? Load management is a new term and 18, 20 games off is how you stay fresh and not die by the end of the first. I watch Westbrook pour his heart on the floor every game and looked exhausted the last two years by the end of the first round. He's shot. He's frazzled. He's emotionally drained.

Load management here to stay? Well, you know, I grew up in an era in this league where there was no Sustina's low of management. I know. Okay. I grew up in a league where for the entire month of November, or October, I should say, when we started the season, you did two a days and you didn't miss a day. Okay.

So it's really hard for me to get into this load management theme without having. Now, I think what's different about today's game is the pace in which they're playing. Oh, my God. Track me. Yes, they're playing the game differently than we play. So I acknowledge that. But I also acknowledge that the cultures that we've set today, when every hour here, coach, for the most part, I'm not saying all,

but majority of coaches, what is the first thing they say when they lose a game? I have to look at the tape and we've got to work harder. Working harder can't be the solution to every single thing. Okay, these guys are professionals, and they have to learn how to make not only physical adjustments, which you have to go out there and do, but you have to learn how to make mental adjustments during the game. You have to learn how to become a professional in this league,

which is changing your diet, changing your habits how you travel, changing your sleep patterns. And all of those little things as you transition from a amateur player to a professional player will actually have an impact on what you're doing when you're performing in the game. Because performance is the X factor. So the one thing that I always encourage all of my clients

is how quickly can you become a professional? pro. How quickly can you become a true professional? Tom Brady is a professional. I heard, I won't mention the player. I don't want to dog him. But I heard there's a player on the East Coast. He's a star player and he's still clubbing and he's been in the league six years.

Okay. And it's like, dude, got to get over that. Like, you're an entity. Yes, absolutely. So, you know, I remember when Pat Riley first got down there to Miami, Pat Riley had the hardest training camps. It was like legendary. Every player knew that everyone loves to go to Miami,

but if you played for the Miami Heat, you had to make a choice. And am I going to go to the club, or am I going to get ready for... You couldn't do both. And to me, that's what being a professional is all about. Now, when you have the self-discipline to say, I don't need those extracurricular things, and you take your job with a certain level of consistency that you need to perform up here,

now I don't think all of the load management, all the things plays into it that much big of effect. And I'm not saying Kauai is doing that, but what I am saying is that the game is different and you have to manage the way you play and perform in today's athlete because it's a different game. B.J. Armstrong, I want to go back to Michael Jordan on this. So you guys were really a rock tour.

You were like the Eagles or you two or you were a rock tour. So, you know, your stories about Michael and there's cigars and the wine and all the wildness. But when you traveled with that team, you were also a dynasty twice, right? Was there a lot of time in the season? Did the team eat right? Were the parties as wild?

Because he always heard about cards playing and staying up late. What was it like with the Bulls? Because those were pros. The key is we have professionals. Like, you know, Michael gets all of the credit, as he should, because he was our best player. He was just truly gifted. But we had professionals, true professional.

Bill Cardwright was a pro's pro. Like, I learned how to play in the NBA from Bill Cardwright. Like, I learned how to dress. I learned how to eat. I learned how to sleep. I learned how to travel. So Bill was one of those grown up. He was a pro.

He was what we prefer. We referred to him as the teacher. He was the teacher. Like, when you came into our team. Even Michael listened to him? Absolutely. Without question. was the teacher. Bill Carl Wright was our pulse of our team. Isn't that funny? He was, he was, he was our, he was our, he was our, he was our, he was our guru. Like, Bill didn't say much. He had that raspy voice. He didn't say much. But when he did speak, everyone listen, because he was the teacher. What would he say to you, B.J.? When he came in, when I first came in, he said, look, young man, first of all, I just want you to listen. And if you listen, you'll be okay in this league. Because you're coming into a team that we're not,

expecting you to play. You have to perform. So I didn't come into this league as a, I didn't, I didn't get an opportunity to find my way around this league. I came into a team that was ready to perform. Screw off, let's get thrown to the side. And I didn't have a chance to find out whether I was going to be a 15 point score or 18 point score or whether I was going to be a point guard or two guard. I had to come in and figure out how to perform with this group. Because I had a player who was already an All-Star, already, you know, 30 points a game. And then I had this young kid, Scotty Pippen, who was up and coming. So I had to learn how to perform and play my role.

So the great players have to play great, and the role players have to play their role great. So I came in with the idea of Bill Cartwright was like, we got to get you caught up to speed ASAP. We don't have a half a year for you to figure out who you are. And that was like for anyone to take that type of interest in you, That's a B-12 shot, man. It was incredible.

And he would teach me how to get up and eat. Like at that time, we were traveling commercial, and Bill would teach me how to get up and go and eat. How to get myself ready for the game. How to get ice for myself. How to travel. At that time, we had to wash our uniforms. Bill did all of those things for us.

Take two pairs of shoes. Take three pairs of shoes when you travel because if one messes up, you got to. So those were like little things that, I'm forever grateful because he showed me how to be a pro in this league. That's why you need vets on a team. I mean, you can have Zion and all these kids in New Orleans. You've got to have a Drew Holiday.

You've got to have a grown-up. Bill Cartwood was the best. Bill Carverick got me to change my diet. You know, I ate a lot of meat and I did things. And he was like, no, you can't do that. You know, he just showed me how to get myself ready to perform. And he was a sinner. He wasn't a point.

It was just like, you know. Adult in the room. Yeah, like, you know, Bill would be like, okay, you know what, let's warm up. And when you warm up, I want you to sign all the autographs as you're walking off the floor. I was like, why? It was like, because you know what? It's the respectful thing to do for all of these people here that respect what we do. I love hearing stories like that.

And he was, I mean, Bill is like one of the greatest teammates I've ever had. And I've had some great teammates, but he was, he taught me how to be in the person that I became and the player I became in this league. NBA agent with the Wasserman agency, BJ Armstrong. Love having you on the show, man. It's always a pleasure. Thank you for having me. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. And every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves.

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Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement home. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys?

This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, A, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Look. Quarterback on office blue with 42.

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