The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Best of The Herd for 06/17/2019

Episode Date: June 17, 2019

Colin thinks the Lakers finally chose a direction and that's why the trade for Anthony Davis makes sense. He doesn't think Lonzo Ball has a long career in New Orleans ahead of him. He talks about where he was right and wrong over the weekend. Plus, Fox Sports Radio Host Doug Gottlieb comes in studio to defend the Lakers trade because whoever gets the best player always wins the deal. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. you just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to her. He's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball.

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This is the best of the herd with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio. Ah, this is the herd. Vacake and wait. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, we're live on a Monday morning. Iheart radio, Fox Sports Radio, and wherever else we land. Twitter, Facebook, YouTube. Yeah, I was going to go on vacation, but I scheduled my vacay for Tuesday. Because I thought, about a couple weeks ago, I thought Anthony Davis deal, Toronto's better than I thought.

Series could go seven. So I'm going to schedule my vacay for Tuesday so vacations can wait. Father's Day. I hope you had a great Father's Day yesterday. I watched five hours of golf and. was on Twitter with Anthony Davis thoughts. So the Lakers have reached a deal to get Anthony Davis.

Who won the trade? That's what we want to know, right? Well, the Pelicans got three draft picks, two draft swaps, two starters, a bench guy, six total players, two draft swaps for Anthony Davis. Feels lobsided, New Orleans. But even with the Pelicans,

I could give you several narratives. A, Pelicans. Look at all those pieces. Zion plus Lonzo equals highlight film. Six players for one guy. What a future. Or B. Lonzo Ball doesn't want to be there,

and he and Brandon Ingram can't stay healthy. Draft picks are 19-year-olds. Do you watch the finals? Not a lot of those. There was one young guy in the whole finals that mattered, Fred Van Vleet, and he went to college for a bunch of years. So he came into the league of man. Lakers this morning.

We got AD. We won. I could have several narratives there. A. Now you have the best star combo in the NBA. LeBron plus Anthony Davis. Both healthy, both rested. Also, this is big for me.

Got to keep Kyle Kuzma, paying him nothing for two years, which allows you to go get another big guy. And Vegas has your title favorite. Or B, two stars, and we've only got five guys on the roster right now. And LeBron, plus a great big, is going to be good. But he and Bosch had issues. He and Kevin Love had some issues. We always want instant analysis.

A grade. Who won? But what both the Pelicans and the Lakers really did, they chose a direction. That's what they did. The Pelicans, it's a football city, run by football people until David Griffith got there, can sell hope, future, optimism. That's good enough. And the Lakers, kids took over for dad, kind of rudderless, once again, contenders.

Listen, the Pelicans chose a direction. Hope were not just a football city. That's what they need and can sell in that city. And they delivered it. And the Lakers, you know, kids aren't as good as dad. Stock prices reeling. Standards are higher. A lot of options in Los Angeles.

NFL's now in town. We need to be important today and dispel this notion. We are rudderless. Check, check, check, both teams. You can talk about draft picks, but you know why they're excited in New Orleans? Zion. He's a star. And you know why they're excited in Los Angeles?

because they have AD and LeBron, two stars. I don't want to hear about draft picks. Folks, if you take Zion out, the Pelicans got a bunch of questions. Lonzo, Ingram, can't stay healthy. Josh Hart, so what, bench guy, a bunch of draft picks. If you took Zion out the next three years for the Pelicans, looks like one of those edible arrangements, ooh, cantalope on a stick. I've always wanted that.

Zion's the key to everything. He's the sun. Everything will rotate around it. Brandon Ingram, blood caught a lot issue. And the Lakers privately told people about Brandon Ingram a year ago, they'd come to terms with not really an alpha, not great at anything, good at some things, can't stay healthy. Josh Hart, total ceiling. Lonzo. He's missed like 60 games. and a number four pick in a draft with three absolutes. But what I can say definitively is both teams chose a direction.

Hope and optimism in New Orleans, win now and contend in Los Angeles. Neither team this morning, neither franchise this morning, feels rudderless. And that's a win for both teams. Now let me shift to multiple angles on this. Let's start with this one. Reading the headline, Lakers making Kemba Walker top target after the 80 deal. Kemba's not as gifted as Kyrie, but he would be considered a third star. You also hear Jimmy Butler, you hear Kyrie.

Let me talk about this, land a third star thing. Because the Lakers this morning now have a choice. Land Kemba. Go after Jimmy. Land, you know, a third guy. Wait to land the big fish. Or take the 20, 25 million and land a bunch of heady veterans. Trevor Reza, Danny Green, J.J. Reddick, Patrick Beverly's out there.

That's the option I believe in. Sprinkle the infield. Get a bench. Get veterans. Do you watch the finals? Not a lot of babies in that. Not a lot of teenagers in that. Those are men, 28, 29, 30, 31, Marcus Sond.

All, Sergei Bodka, Steph Curry, Draymond Green. I mean, it was grownups. Fill their roster out with reliable B and B minus guys. Because those guys in May and June, you're not teaching them how to play basketball. Jamal Crawford, Brooks Lopez, again, Danny Green. Listen, LeBron's always understood. Very few players are at his level physically. He gets that.

But what drives LeBron nuts, And this is when he puts his head down and sometimes gets discouraged and seems distracted. Is when you're not at his intellectual level. And there's not a 19, 20, 21 year old in America on his intellectual basketball level. There isn't. Lonzo's smart. He's not there. And so veterans motivated to get a ring.

J.J. Reddick, Rudy Gay. Darren Collison's a name out there. And let's be honest about the third star under LeBron. they always feel left out because LeBron's ball-centric. Chris Bosch felt like a valet, Kevin Love, luggage carrier. They always feel like underutilized, their agents in their ear. You're not a three, you're a one. They're lucky to have you.

LeBron's a ball dominator. In fact, the only third guy I would really consider is Clay Thompson, and that's mostly because of his personality. He's perfect. But if I can get a JJ Redick, a Seth Curry, a Danny Green, a George Hill, high IQ shooters plus LeBron, I'm not a big believer in go top heavy with a third star. You'll have no bench. LeBron now is not 27.

Okay, he's not giving you 42 minutes tonight. He's not interested, frankly, to play a ton of minutes on the defensive end. He's not giving you 82 games. He's going to give you 70. So the bench matters, depth matters. When your superstar is going to be 35 next year, and he's still great, you're not getting 40 minutes, you're not getting 82 games. Go find a Mark Gassal.

Go fill out the roster with intellectual equals. He respects you got your two stars. We have a history here. LeBron works well with smart guys, shooters, and another star. You add a third, there's always the guy feeling undervalued, underutilized. Bosch, love. Hall of Famers. Kind of felt like valets had to marginalize themselves.

Their games got, don't. And Kenball Walker's a good guy, like he's a good guy. But to get Campbell Walker, you got no bench. And for the record, AD's not giving you 82 games either. He's probably giving you 69.70. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments. that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist. games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking

Tripp Fantine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose. On my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, IHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm CJ Toledano and our podcast, Point. The point game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game.

We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Rand. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing.

That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show,

I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue with 42.

Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Pong. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. So a bunch of different draft picks and players and Josh Hart off the bench and the star Anthony Davis and Brandon Ingram, Lanzo Ball, go to New Orleans. You ever notice this? Go with your instincts on this.

You can tell right away when a marriage is not a long-term relationship. None of you thought Dennis Rodman and Carmen Elektra would last forever. None of you. None of you felt Lisa Marie Presley and Nicholas Cage was going to last forever. Even Nicholas Cage knew. See what I can get out of this. It's not going to last long. Kim Kardashian and Power Forward Chris Humphreys.

Did that say Joanna Woodward and Paul Newman? Katie Perry Russell Brand, Taylor Swift and anybody. Lyle Lovett, Julia Roberts. You can tell. That stuff's not lasting forever. Lanzo with the Pelicans feels short-term to me. It's got two years left. A, he'd never been out of L.A.

When did Lanzo and Lovar Ball ever say before this move? God, I would love to play in New Orleans. Never. They didn't visit Tulane on a recruiting trip. LA kid, born and bred. B. Lonzo's missed the last 35 games of last year. In his

NBA career, he's played 99, he's missed 65. And even when he plays, he's rarely 100% healthy. Those wickets aren't great. C. You want LeVar ball hanging around this organization. The Pelicans now are optimistic and fun

and Zion, and Lonzo is not going to be the star here. Drew Holliday is the best play. Zion's the most magnetic player. You think Lonzo and LeVar, especially LeVar, going to be happy, him being the third most talked about guy? And frankly, most people in the NBA like Ingram is a talent over Lonzo. He could get lost in this and LaVar is a lot of static.

There's also something to remember. The NBA draft is only two rounds. And they mostly, there's a lot of exceptions. They mostly run out of players by about 15. over the last 30 years. You get two all-stars a draft, two, two, and a half. Then you get about eight guys who sign a third NBA contract that can really play. Then there's just a bunch of dudes.

Okay? So you in the NBA draft, you just draft who you think can make the league. You don't get picky. You got a forward already. The forward's the best available guy. You take a forward. You know, it says not like the NFL where the Patriots needed a pass rusher. They need a corner.

They need a wide receiver. They went out and got that receiver. for Arizona State. That probably wasn't the highest ranked player, but they needed a wide receiver. See, you can be a little picky. You can tell the press, oh, we just draft for value.

You needed a receiver. You went and got a receiver. And Belichick hates drafting receivers. But there's some need here. In the NBA, you just pick a guy you think can make the league. Because not many guys make the league. And right now, after the trade, Pelicans have the number four pick.

And the fourth best player is Darius Garland. easily the best guard out of Vanderbilt can play. Now, there's not a lot of video on him. Like Kyrie Irving, didn't play a lot of college games, but he's great. So you draft him because you don't get tricky on this. Well, we have Drew Holiday, we have Lonzo, we don't really need a guard. Take a guy you think's going to be the fourth best basketball player available in the draft. Period.

If it was another forward, you take Zion and you take another forward. You just do it and you figure it out. later. So I don't think, I think you get Darius Garland, who could be potentially very good, Southern kid, comfortable there, you got Drew Holliday, you play him nine, 12 minutes, opening year. Lonzo's undoubtedly going to get hurt. He starts 15. And then in a year, you move Lonzo. If he's not happy, you're not happy, you got your guard. But you got to be very careful in the NBA. You got to be careful. Don't try to outthink the room. Who at number four is the best town available, regardless of your need.

Draft him. And a lot of people think it's Darius Garland from Vanderbilt, and he's a guard. So Lonzo doesn't feel like New Orleans. I would be very interested in one year. Now, if Lonzo has a very good year becomes a nice trade piece, then you have Garland, you got Drew, you got Zion, you got Ingram. Maybe now you can move them for a big. now you've got a good team.

Now I can be a little choosier in a trade. Trades are to fill spots. Drafts are to just get dudes who can play and stick. So I don't think, I just don't feel of all the players, Lonzo's the one to keep your eye on. It doesn't feel like a man. This feels much more Kardashian Chris Humphreys to me than Tom and, you know, Rita Hanks.

It doesn't feel like it's going to last for 40 years. It just doesn't. It just does not to me. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Every Monday, we do something called Colin was right, Colin was wrong. And stories that develop over the last seven to ten days where I've had a strong opinion, and I either whiffed or was spot on. So here we go.

Where Colin was right. The Celtics never a real player in the Anthony Davis trade. I contend they leak stuff to make it worse for the last. Lakers and make the Lakers give more picks because Danny Aange hates the Lakers. The sticking point was trading Jason Tatum, which we said would always be the deal breaker. Danny Age, according to two reports, was willing to trade Jason Tatum but didn't want to include anything with Jason Tatum, just a straight swap. And Anthony Davis right now is a much better player than Jason Tatum, who, for the record,

I love. So I wouldn't give up Jason Tatum either. I contend next year the Celtics are going to win 55 games. and be in the Eastern Conference finals. I actually think Kyrie heard him. So I wouldn't have made the deal either because he was a rental and I don't think Anthony Davis truly, Rich Paul told you his agent, you're not going to stay there.

But I never bought they were, you know, I never bought this thing. And now it's all a bunch of post-trade comments. Never close. Where Colin was wrong. One day after the Warriors lost the finals, did Kevin Durant sit back, reflect, come to his senses? No.

he already met with Kyrie Irving. Really? I don't get the move. Money, less. Roster Knicks, awful. Owner in New York, weirdo. I don't get it. The Warriors showed Kevin Durant at every opportunity they loved him.

And I also think this finals reshaped the narrative that they absolutely need him. There's no question now. Steph's not going to win it without KD. He needs help. I mean, God, Vegas has the warrior. at like sixth, fifth best odds to win the championship. They wouldn't have KD came back. So, but he apparently is, at least emotionally,

interviewing Kyrie already moved on. Where Colin was right? Never understood how so many smart NBA media types keep falling for the regular season stories. The NBA regular season is a dress rehearsal. It's the driving range of golf. Milwaukee number one regular season, most double-digit wins in league history.

couldn't even win the East without LeBron. Denver, number two regular season. Couldn't win a second series. James Harden, 36 a game. The Altet looked exhausted by the end. Folks, regular season is a different sport than the NBA playoffs. Guys like Draymond Green are 7.7 rebound guys and then transform into key starters in the playoffs. Kauai Leonard completely shifts gears in the playoffs.

the postseason. Don't fall for Mr. January. It never works. Where Colin was wrong. Congrats to the baby dinosaurs. I never envisioned. Fred Van Vleet would be hitting the key shots in this NBA finals. I'm not going to lie. I whiffed on that one. I didn't think Kevin Durant, Clay, and Kavon Looney would all get hurt. My bad, I couldn't predict that. I've never seen of finals like that, where one team physically fell apart, I've never seen anything like it. Seriously, I've never seen anything like it. And I thought Warriors in six, and it was the Raptors in six. Where Colin was right?

Well, the Oakland Raiders wanted hard knocks, a business decision, and they got it. Listen, we said all along, the Raiders are trying to sell season tickets in Vegas. Now that the Golden Knights are there, Vegas has a professional franchise, and they want to sell 40,000 season tickets. So they're being active and aggressive and noisy. This is a game plan. Antonio Brown acquisition made no sense if you looked at what they'd done with Kalilow Mac and Amari Cooper.

It made no sense at all. Why not just keep Amari Cooper and Kalio Mack? Not the noisy guy. But John Gruden's got a 10-year deal. He and owner Mark Davis in cahoots have come to terms with let's sell tickets for a couple years. You're safe here. I'm not buying you out.

and then we'll worry about winning years three on. But we got to sell tickets. So Hard Knocks was a business decision. And to me, that's always been the first two years for the Raiders. Where Colin was raw. Ratings way, way up in the U.S. Open. Now, Brooks Kepka, I thought was actually interesting yesterday. I don't think he has a big personality.

But his last six majors, a second of first, a second of first, a second of first, 39th, and a first. He's the first player to shoot under 74 straight rounds and not win the U.S. open. Again, I don't think he's a captivating personality, but I think his game is unbelievable. There's no visible flaws, and he's kind of a fascinating personality

in that at major, at non-majors, he barely cares. At majors, he's all in. He's not going to give you a lot verbally, but I did think yesterday, Kepka, with a chance to win a third, moved the ratings up like 40%. They got a 5.2. That's a big number.

Now, some of it is, Pebble Beach is a painting. I mean, I sat there and watched five and a half hours. It wasn't because of Brooks Kepka until probably the last 90 minutes. But he had some ability yesterday to move the needle. And I think he did. Where Colin was right. LeBron's a win now player. We predicted this trade last week.

We said it would happen and it would happen fast. That's why I scheduled a flight on Tuesday. I had a feeling this puppy was going to come down either Sunday, Saturday, or Friday. The Pelicans wanted the Lakers' number four pick because that's the best pick. Out of all this, for them, is this number four pick. Most of those picks are swaps.

There's only one top 10 or top eight guaranteed. So this was a trade that you could really, I mean, I think all of us saw it coming, but I felt it was going to happen 48 hours and it did. Where Colin was wrong. Lonzo Ball's Laker career ended up being a bunch of nothing. A 44% free throw shooter, 10 points a game, 38% from the field, and never, ever healthy. A loud dad, some bad rap songs, talented, but never popped.

You know, he's a little too quiet and a little too passive for my liking. I did think before he got hurt last year, he was more aggressive attacking the basket and finishing at the rim, and I really like that, Lonzo. He gave me about 10 games of that. And there are elements of his game I love. I still think he's long, he's got incredible vision. I think he's a good teammate. I think guys like him. David Griffin likes him a lot. But I thought in the first two years he would pop.

He just, frankly, he misses one out of three games or more. He's hurt. And even when he plays, he's not 100%. Where Colin was right? Well, we predicted last week the Golden State Dynasty, they would lose game 6 to Toronto, and they would lose their last game at Oracle, and the dynasty would feel like it's over.

and Vegas has them as the sixth best title odds. I think they're going to be a really, really, really good version of Portland. A great back court, a couple of decent wings or a big, but not intimidating, not scary. These dynasties tend to last five years. The San Francisco Giants dynasty reminds me of the Warriors. Five years, three titles, and then there's this sense that, you know what, we owe all these guys the max amount we can pay them.

You do and you get old. and you have no bullpen and you have no bench, and you're really, really top-heavy, and that feels like what they're going to be. KD's probably gone, and Clay's not playing until March, coming off a major injury. It feels at least now it's on hold. Where Colin was right.

We told you Baker Mayfield would get pushback when he criticized running back Duke Johnson, who wants a new team. Don't mess with another guy's money. Tom Brady, Russell Wilson, Andrew Locke, Drew Breeze, be pro-teammate, swallow your opinion, several teammates approached Baker Mayfield, not the end of the world, but Baker, you don't have to win the moment. Sometimes, again, I'll say it, talent, never dispute it. Maturity often do.

Quarterback is not just about you can throw the ball and hit a 26-yard out. Are you a 12-year personality? The Boar 4. Russell Wilson, Locke, Brady. It's why I like Jared Gough. He hides. He's not worried about his brand. He's worried about being a good teammate and winning.

It's why I like Sam Darnold. It's why I like Andrew Locke. It's why I like Russell Wilson. You don't have to win every argument. And when you're 23 and 24, you've got to find the right personality, not just the right talent. Jay Cutler had the talent. I never liked his personality.

Philip Rivers had less talent. I like this personality. Colin right, calling wrong on a Monday. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games.

And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase. We don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm CJ Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves,

I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nasree. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing.

That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball. But you go through a training camp with that Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff.

Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Rhett, my mama want you to wave at her.

What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hour three, here we go. This is The Her. Wherever you may be. However you may be.

be listening. I've got to get it right for the whole week. I'm sorry. Go, go. I'm sorry. No, I'm done. I'd say I, Doug Gottlieb's going to join me. But she's dues.

Thanks so much for making this part of your day. I used to do that too. I heart radio app and Fox Sports Radio and Fox Sports One of you don't do that anymore. Well, I do. I'm on I heart radio today. I'm on Fox Sports Radio and a bunch of apps and stuff. Yeah. It used to be apps were just Brussels sprouts.

And now it's blooming onion. Big app. Blooming Onion. Doug Gottlieb, Fox Sports Radio. All right, let's start hour three with the Dugger because he's got a show after mine. from now, which is in a different studio but on Fox Sports Radio. All right, the question, you know, first of all, everybody says

it's kind of, you know, who won? I don't really care because, you know, you can never really tell. But I think a real question is, did the Lakers give up too much? Yeah, I guess. I mean, yeah, I don't, there were some, I thought they could have held a firmer line out of a couple of other things.

Yeah. I'll give you an example. We're all, and rightfully kind of poo-pooing this fourth pick because the top heavy top three draft, right? Right? Yeah. I was told that there was a workout with Darius Garland, who could be the number four pick. Vanney Point Guard, yeah. Yeah, that he was as impressive as anybody that the Lakers have seen workout since Donovan Mitchell and before Donovan Mitchell.

Like when they drafted Lonzo Ball, the collective group that was with the Lakers then thought that, one, they liked Deerrin Fox better, and they thought that Donovan Mitchell was the best guard that they saw. Magic and Rob Polinka decided to draft Lonzo ball. But Garland's Garland was that impressive. He's a Damian Lillard type player. He is a score. He's only 19 and he only played a couple of games this year because of Miniscopal tear. But they saw him like, man, this is a hell of a player.

So because of the timeline of what they can and can't do with the salary cap and they might not, like I would have, why not hold on to that fourth pick if you're going to go with what way all those picks? But look, they had to trade. Ingram was going to go anyway. Yes. They grew to like Ingram.

They never loved Ingram. He's got an injury issue, and he's a mid-range shooter. He's like a poor man's, poor man's version of Kevin Durant. And he's the only guy remaining that wasn't drafted since Rob took over, right? So he was going to go. Josh Hart, they kind of fell out of love with. He hit his ceiling last year. Yes.

He's not a starter. He's a backup player. Good culture guy. got a little sensitive at certain times when he wasn't playing well and didn't have as many minutes. And then Lonzo Ball was the prize get of this trade. Yes. They really like Lonzo. Lonzo fits with LeBron.

Lonzo's dynamic defensively, a rebounding guard, great athleticism. And this will be a summer which he should really improve. And I think that's one of the reasons the Pelicans wanted this done earlier rather than later is so they could get Lonzo in there and begin working with him, integrating him into what they want to do. But I joked earlier, Julia Roberts, Lyle Lovett, you knew instantly that's not going to last. This doesn't feel, Pelicans Lanzo does not feel like the Hank's marriage. It doesn't feel like... Well, look, I'm going to disagree from this standpoint. Drew Holliday, tremendous defensive player.

A very good passing two guard who can play some point. He's a good player. Lonzo Ball, tremendous passer defensive player, right? Ray and Ingram, long and agile and can defend a bunch of positions. Williamson who can be a Swiss Army knife defensively. Like, they should be very dynamic. But you hit, you hit the nail on the head of the difference in knowing who you are. The Lakers believe, Lakers, people are like, well, they're giving away all these picks.

Lakers believe, look, look, if they start winning again and it becomes showtime again, they'll be able to get back to picking who they want to come to L.A. Patrick, Beverly, J.J. Redick, maybe. Yeah, we'll get to that in a second. But I'm talking about in the long-term future, after LeBron. People are like, what happens after LeBron? Well, after LeBron, they'll do what they've always done, which is pick who they want, who wants to come in L.A.,

and they'll come to L.A. That's what they've always done. Right. Whereas the Pelicans, the secret to New Orleans is they know that whether it's Lanzo Ball or Drew Holiday's next deal, it's really hard to get somebody to stay in New Orleans and sign another contract. It just is. So you have to have younger, you have to have younger players.

But to answer the question, who won the trade? Anthony Davis is, inarguably, one of the top 10 players in the league, arguably one of the five best players in the league. And there was discussions going in the first. to last year that he might be the best all-around player. Lakers won the trade. They got the best player. It's not even something you just

pointed out, and I think this is something, it's like when Harbaugh goes to Michigan, Harbaugh of Michigan's bigger than Harbaugh of Purdue. Lakers now are an IT team. Branding tickets. I mean, they were off TV the last, even with LeBron, it was like they weren't a sexy TV play.

It's like they are now for the next three to four years. They're going to be the team and it teams tend to get guys like JJ Reddick and you know Patrick Beverly who will Trevor Areza who kind of want to be part of it and chase the rate Rudy Gay. You bring up JJ Redick is a great

great one because BJJ was overpaid the last two years right to fill salaries. He made a lot of money. Made a ton of money. So now like look do you want to come back and be the Kyle Corpher to this team? You can. I think they're going to go after. I think Kempa's the guy that they would want the most.

Why don't you like Kamba? It's not that I don't like him, but here's my thing. I would take Kauai as a third. But if once you go to a- Take Kauai, yeah, done. Right. But I wouldn't take Karee. Here's my thing.

Not all, first of all, Kyrie struggled to be a second guy. Good luck being a third. Well, look, I mean, look, the idea, I mean, look, we haven't gotten into, Frank Vogel is going to coach this team. It's going to be interesting. Like, he's coached Paul George and Roy Hibbert were his two biggest names.

But isn't he pretty good with Biggs? No, yes, but there are no bigs anymore. Like, again, it's coaching, there's nothing wrong with coaching LeBron and coaching Anthony Davis. Like he can coach. It's the managing all the other stuff, right? Because we know Anthony Davis, end of the day is going to be playing outside that three point line. And LeBron's going to be having the basket. Like, can Anthony Davis accept the Chris Bosch role at times, right?

How do you manage those egos? That's what it becomes about with LeBron. So we haven't even, we don't even know how that works, let alone the rest of the coaching staff is going to be. kind of fascinating. But look, Kemba Walker is a dynamic competitor. He is a walking kind of bucket score and LeBron likes and respects him and he has a good relationship

with several other people on the Lakers staff. No maintenance. No, not the maintenance to level of Kyrie, you know? Kyri is one of those guys that's pretty intelligent but thinks he's brilliant and so he tries to outsmart the room and kind of annoys people. I think if they don't get Kemba, then they go to the, hey, let's go get a daring

Collison and then a JJ. Spread the money around. Get a shooter and a quality point guard that can shoot as well. I think, so, you know, let's just, let's just, I think I don't think the Lakers are the best team in the league because they only have five guys in their roster and they need

another shooter. But I do think Kuzma, LeBron, Anthony Davis put you in the group of six, seven. So I'll just throw these teams out. That I think that are, will be, at some point next year, we'll watch a weekend, a game, a moment and think, oh, they could win it. Lakers, Milwaukee. clippers if they get kawai

Boston for a minute Houston on the bottom end and I'll throw Denver in there because they're young and I think Denver's pretty interesting I think there's about those six teams feel like we'll watch them next year and think you know if they stay healthy well we're also bearing the lead Rome

burned down to the ground last week right I mean that's that's what happened you know the the like just just just just like it was in ancient rome the golden state warriors were incredible dynasty and it had a chance to continue on it had a chance and it still may reform itself much like the bulls did like people forget that the bulls the first incarnation had jordan and pippin and horace grant and uh it had bison delay was there for a while he didn't he didn't play it had paxon yeah and then bj armstrong was the starting point guard the third year right and paxon hit the big shot against Phoenix.

The second incarnation had Dennis Rodman. You know, it had Luke Longley, as opposed to Bill Wennington and Bill Cartwright in the first one. You know, so the other parts changed, but the two superstars remained the same. But Kevin Durant being hurt, being out for a year, and Clay Thompson being out

probably for a year before he's back right. Like he could play next year, but he's not going to be right until two years from now. It changed the whole league. Yes. Changed the whole league. Yep. And so now, the Lakers like, wait, we have the two best players in the West. Houston still has, what do they do with Chris Paul? He's

getting older, not younger. What do they do with Clint Capella? They can't play him late in games. The Clippers are still, maybe we'll get Kauai. And even if they do, if you don't have Patrick Beverly and you do have Kawhi, do you have the same culture you had previously? Are you actually good enough? Do I know what the rest of their roster is going to look like?

I don't. Do I think they spent a lot of capital to get him? I do. But you got two super stars, one in his, you know, in his athletic prime, the other one coming out of his athletic prime in LeBron James, who's had the most time off he will have had, so you'll probably get the best version of him. I mean, I think we're exactly where we thought we would be. It was just the path of getting from last year to this year. We all thought he was going to be a Laker. We all thought they were going to have to trade a bunch. And the only thing difference was they didn't trade

Kyle Cusma, which most people thought they would have to give up to get him. You know, it's interesting, Doug, it used to be, I'm older than you. I remember when when you got a Duncan or a Ewing or a Leitner, they had not only were like 22, but they'd played against NBA guys in the ACC or the Big East. And those environments back then were rabid. In fact, I could argue a big college basketball Saturday was as big or bigger than most NBA.

Sure. And so now you get 19-year-olds. Kids. I watched the finals, and Fred Van Bleet is the only young guy. And by the way, he's not now. He played a lot of college basketball. Yeah, and why the Lakers like Kuzma is he played three years in college. Josh Hart, they liked his maturity, played three, four years in college.

I don't really mind giving up a bunch of draft picks because what they are now is not what they were in 1991. They're just kids, and I don't think kids win in the playoffs. No, they don't. The kids don't win in the playoffs, but you do, you have to backfill with some youth for the regular season, right? That has to kind of carry you on for the regular season. And they need to have, you know, some depth. I mean, what killed the Golden State Warriors really was they just, they didn't have a lot of depth. And so their starters had to play extended minutes.

And I don't believe, like, you're going to hear people say that, well, you know, because KD played 12 straight minutes, he tours Achilles tendon. His Achilles 10 was probably torn partially before he went on the floor, right? And then it fully popped when he made that one move. That's not why he tore his kill his tendon. But the idea was, remember, they had to play the Clippers six games. And they got worn down physically. because they didn't have as good a bench as they used to have. We've seen baseball pitchers.

You don't get a third. Verlander's an outlier. Yes. But the third time he asked Kershaw to throw $2.50. They're not the same guy. Correct. So I'm with, I agree with you. There were no kids that played in that playoffs.

None. None of them helped you. And so in order to win, if you want to win a championship now, you've got to do with grown-ass men, right? Veterans that know who they are, know what their role is. You give it to them in a set spot. They know where their spots are on the floor, and they make shots, and they don't blow down.

defensive assignments. And so I think, look, J.R. Smith's going to get bought out. He's, you know, we don't be surprised if he ends up being potentially a Laker because they can get him on the cheap. And I saw something on Twitter today. It was pretty funny. Like, what if Campbell Walker gets $100 million to appear in Space Jam and only $10 million, only $10 million to play for the Lakers? That's funny. Right? It would be really, it would be really funny. But I, I, when you come out of it going like, okay, normally I would say trade most of the house except the kitchen sink in Kyle Kuzma to get Anthony Day.

that's a questionable trade, but what did they give up? Josh Hart, rotation guy, Brandon Ingram, a starter, but they weren't in love with and doesn't fit with LeBron. And they give up Lonzo, who's going to be really, really good, but is a bit of a pain in the ass. And if that's what you have to give up to get Anthony Davis, you got Anthony Davis, you got LeBron James, you got Kyle Kuzma, and you still have a big salary cap spot or two,

you got a chance to win the NBA championship next. There are no perfect players. Even LeBron, I saw him struggle with his, when he broke into the league, shooting a three, then is down low game exposed in the Dallas series. And even now, he'll lose confidence on that jumper. It's not like Kobe where Kobe just shoot his way out of a. Sometimes LeBron moves away from the three.

But it took Kobe a while to learn how to play with others to win. It wasn't until they got Phil Jackson that he figured out how to win basketball games. So let's talk Anthony Davis. He's not a perfect player. I'll tell you what I, here's my overview of him. He is the only big. I trust at the free throw line late. You can pick and roll him defensively.

He can defend. He's got good feet. He's had a lot of soreness, back spasms, no breaks. Not an alpha, but LeBron is. He's a really good player. I do worry, when I look at the games played, I think to myself, it's a lot of soreness. He was choosing not to play.

Could he play in L.A. if he felt like he could win? Like, what's his reputation in the league on playing hurt? I mean, look, I think he's a guy that's been dinged up and banged a little bit. But I also think that everybody's a copycat and they see Kauai Leonard. Resting was at 22 games this year. And they're like, we're going to do that. It's going to be load management city. So I would expect regular season.

It's funny. You started the column was right, column was wrong. Yeah. And you said that the regular season, what did you say? Regular season is the driving range of golf. Yes. But you actually bought the, you bought into the Warriors were better without KD, because of the regular season numbers without KD as opposed to the regular

just as you know those are they are powerful numbers just like the 73 wins it was a powerful number that people get like they were the best team ever like no they just went for it when other teams were load managing back then yeah well I think one of the things we said going into the finals was Toronto is long and Durant I know his offense is great yeah Kevin's not a terrible defender and he's long like that one quarter he was on the floor Gassal went from a straight a liability. You're like, oh, Mark's got to go out and guard him. Now it's a problem. Well, that's

that there's two parts to it that I think sometimes people miss on, and you just nailed it, is when Durant's on the floor, it allows them to play small and still defend the rim, right? Right. To do both. And it completely changed that they had to take, you know, Marcus

Saul off the floor. And you take Marcus off the floor. It's different. It all of a sudden it becomes, and now you have with Sergei Baca, and even Serge Abaka can struggle to guard out on the floor. He's a shot blocker. And yes, he can catch and shoot, but it's not like he's crazy agile off the dribble. So it changed the whole matchups of the series. The other part, and the real indictment of the Warriors was when Steph Curry is not out in the floor, you're going to have, you're going to have, you know, Quinn Cook, who was, you know,

Quinn Cook is not as good as Fred Van Vleet in terms of knocking down shots and understanding his role. So the bench of the Warriors really got exposed. Look, I think today you sit here and Vegas is telling you the Lakers are a favorite. Some of it's because of Anthony Davis and the respect he has. Some of it's because the rest of the league sees that the Warriors are going to be down for at least a year and may take more than that, more than that to recover. What's Anthony Davis's reputation? He does everything really well.

Yes. I don't know if he, he's not a great shooter's ball spins kind of sideways, but he's become a decent three-point shooter. But outside of that, you know, he grew up as a guard and then grew into this incredible body. He can defend positions one through five. Yeah, he's a good defender. Oh, it's a great match for LeBron because LeBron is not nearly the defender he used to be. Right. And the criticism at times of Anthony Davis in the playoffs was there were times in which you could take him away and he would disappear.

And that's okay with LeBron because LeBron's going to dominate the basketball and get him open shots. I think it should be a good fit. I'm not sure it's a perfect fit because he's not really a catch-and-shoot. Chris Boss jump shooter, but he's a spectacular talent that can really. help you at both ends in the floor. And as we've seen from Kauai, both ends of the floor of players. You mentioned KD. Even Yannis, who lacks the jump shot, but you got to be able to play both ends to be considered one of the top five players in the game. Not many bigs all time. You trust at the line with four minutes left. And Anthony's, I think he's almost an 80% free throw shooter. Did you hear this

is a crazy stat. This is a total aside. Did you see the stat? Steph Curry swishes 84% of his free throws. I'm not saying mix you know and and I've heard so many so many people like well he's oh of nine in NBA finals games I think it's a little bit of indictment of the shots he takes he keeps he takes deep three point shots as opposed LeBron's ability to get to the rim but to anyone who says like well he's not clutch like I saw him against Houston make eight straight free throws and none of them touched the rim to win that series right so I mean like eventually look staff is going to need help he does need got somebody that

plays both ends. He's an incredible player, but I've never, the 84% of free throws that don't hit the rim is the craziest stat I've ever heard in basketball. Yeah, it is funny. I have said before we let Doug Gottlieb go, he's got a show after ours here in 40 minutes, 45 minutes. It is interesting about Kauai. So Kevin Durant, going to New York, less money, lousy roster, kooky owner, I don't get it. There is this, oh, but if he can win in New York, then he'll change the narrative. What's funny is, Kauai just won in Toronto with no other star. we don't think he's better than Michael Jordan. It's like we think Kauai is great,

but I bet you by next year, we're not calling him the best player in the league. Like, did Kauai winning without a star massively changed the narrative on him? I think it did. You do? Yeah, I used to come on your show and say he was the third best player in the NBA.

And now if I said, considering Kevin Durant, Torres-A-Killies tendon, so we don't know what he'll be like when he... I think Kevin Rann actually has the best chance to be close to himself because I don't think, though he's explosive for a seven-footer,

that's not like totally his game. I think he can get back to being close to, but if Kevin Rance not healthy, and we both agree, LeBron James is not what he used to be because of 16 years in the league. And he also, LeBron kind of acknowledged, I'm not going to play much on the defensive end. Right. But even when LeBron, even at his best, like, Quyneux, probably the best player in the league. And we'd never had that discussion before, ever. Did we?

Yeah. So it did change. And when you win a championship in San Antonio, then you go to Toronto who couldn't, and was it helped out by LeBron not being in the East? Sure. Sure. And was it helped out by a very fortunate role? of a three-point shot in the corner against the 76ers? Sure, but he made that shot.

He made all the plays. And look, he didn't score a point in the fourth quarter of the deciding, like, game six, until point nine seconds to go. So, but he was the MVP because he defends at both ends. He's a great player. I don't think he's, I mean, like now with KD. Heard, yeah, kind of by default, he becomes the best parent league, but we never had that discussion before.

Look, the whole KD thing was a search for respect, and then he finally got it. and now he's going to leave. In a weird way, the injury not playing got him the respect, which is, oh, God, they really do miss him here. That combined with they're playing the Clippers the first two games, and people are like, hey, how come you're not scored? People missed at the end of the season.

He was trying to move the ball. He wasn't shooting that much. He wasn't playing that many minutes. And then the first two games in the Clippers, and they're like, hey, dude, how come you're not scoring all the time? He's like, oh, you want to score all the time? Okay, I'll score all the time. And he dominated.

And then he was like the Death Star. They pressed the button and it loaded up, and it's like, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. I'm like, oh, oh yeah, he can score anytime he wants. Yeah. Doug Gottlie, the Dugger, good seeing you, buddy. Enjoy whitewater rafting. Make sure you wear, you know, protective clothing. Oh, I am very cautious.

We can't have, like, that would be a major news story. Something happened to Colin Cowherd, whitewater rafting in Utah. I don't know how this network would survive. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

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