The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Best of The Herd for 06/20/2019

Episode Date: June 20, 2019

Filling in for Colin, Doug Gottlieb discusses tonight's NBA draft while comparing Zion Williamson to past greats. Doug always explains why it might be hard for Kevin Durant to leave the Golden State Warriors. Kevin O'Connor from the Ringer stops by to talk NBA draft and rumors.  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. you just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to her. He's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball.

So listen to Point Game on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to the Best of Heard Podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday. From 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRadio.com Or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by search watching Herd.

This is the best of the herd with Colin Cowherd on Fox Sports Radio. What up? Welcome in. This is The Herd, wherever you may be in, however you may be making as part of your day. Thanks so much. Live from Los Angeles, I'm Doug Gottlie. Filling in for Colin Cowherd, happy draft day to you, as the NBA draft will take place in New York City.

later on tonight. We've got great draft coverage right here on Fox Sports Radio, starting at 7 Eastern 4 Pacific. Chris Broussard, Rick Buecker, Jason McIntyre, who's looking for a pair of sockony hoop shoes, I believe. Maybe it'd be a new balance guy like Kauai Leonard. And of course, with the draft brings likely draft day trades. We'll cover all of it for you right here in the herd. Jeff Goodman from Stadium Sports. will join us this hour. Kevin O'Connor from the ringer and my man Ryan Rosillo also from the ringer and from ESPN will join us later on in the show. And we'll talk about all things NBA draft

as well as the NBA in general where the stories always continue to evolve and the level of competence continues to be called into question with the LA Lakers. What really is going on with the Boston Celtics? Oh hey, I actually got some baseball stuff for you. Believe it or not, something historic happened last night in baseball.

I'm convinced that nobody gives a Paul Goldschmidt about some of the things going on in baseball, even though we are likely watching the greatest baseball player to ever play baseball do crazy things on a baseball field. So a lot to get to. But tonight's the NBA draft. And my first NBA draft as a member of the media. was in 2003. Now, like, corporations pay big money to hear this kind of speech, but what happened was I had worked a year

in covering college basketball for ESPN, for what was then called ESPN Plus, and for Cowboys Sports Properties, and I had a radio show in Oklahoma City on WWLS, the Sports Animal. The Mod Squad, Middle, of the day show. There you go. So I'd done this for,

we started probably in September, right? Or August, maybe. And what it happened was I got offered a job to do college basketball games. I've been playing professionally overseas and I knew about how much I could make to play overseas.

I knew how much I was going to get paid to do college basketball games, which is not a lot. And I wanted to fill in that gap so that I would started to have a chance at a new career, but I didn't want to make less money. And I didn't. It ended up being a great thing for me.

I did a year of radio and college basketball. And then I went and played in France, in Clermont-Feron, France. Huh? Huh? That's honestly, all I know of French is, yes, no, one, two, three, four, right? That's all I know. And I also know the town of Clement Feron.

So I was in Claremont-Fro, and we actually played a friendly against Boris Dio's team. There's a couple of other French players that were in that NBA draft. The previous year I had been playing in Israel, and we played twice in a Cup League against Darko Milisich. So my sale, when I came back stateside, I called the guy who had hired me to do college basketball games and said, hey, my dad's in A.U. coach. My brother's a college basketball coach. I've covered college basketball. I know the high school basketball scene. This back again, high school guys could come straight out. LeBron was coming out of the draft. But do you have

anybody who's played against international guys ever? And he said, no. But I can't use you. They had Fran Frasilla doing the international stuff, I believe. That's when it was his first year. And they had Jay Billis and the rest of NBA guys. So he pawned me off on a guy named John Martin, who goes by the nickname Chisholm. Chief and said, maybe Chief will use you with radio. So I couldn't get a hold of Chief.

He wasn't a big return of phone calls sort of guy. Maybe it was because he had a cell phone. And I was just beginning to have like a proper cell phone. Again, this was 2003. I think those Nokia phones were still big then. Man, 2003 feels like eons ago. It really is. So I flew to New York and did a movie audition.

This is a true story. Spike Lee's brother was making a basketball movie. I don't know if it ever launched, but they needed a smart-ass white guy basketball player. I thought I fit the bill. They flew me in. I did the audition. I wasn't very good.

And I popped over to New Jersey to watch the Nets play the Spurs. Game 6 NBA final, Steve Curtin, playing in the first half. He had three threes late in the game to win the game and win the series. But I only went there to rub elbows with the people who are doing the NBA draft. the next week. I run in the guy named Chief. He's like, yeah, I heard you. You want to do the draft?

We'll fly in next week. Call this number, and we'll get you set up. So I fly in, and I think we're staying somewhere like the Marriott Marquis. And the first order of business was to go to these player press conferences. I don't know. This is a 2003 draft, and Chris Bosch walks in, and I had met Chris Bosch. I played basketball in Oklahoma State. He was a superstar growing up in Dallas.

And the way it worked then still works this way now is those guys would come up for big games, our place or other place. So I'd known who he was. I knew how good he was. He's a super bright, super nice kid, played one year of Georgia Tech. Then Dwayne Wade came in. Everybody knew what Dwayne Wade was because he had played at Marquette and played in the Final Four. And he was really interesting to listen to talk.

and Darko came in and I had known Darko but it wasn't and he was kind of like the international man of mystery and then Carmelo Anthony came in and of course it's in New York he just won a national championship with Syracuse he had a great smile

he had a good presence about him and you felt like all three of the three Americans felt like stars right then in walks LeBron James there's an expression in basketball, it goes like this. His sneakers squeak differently

than other people's. Like, I don't, I'd watch the Bronn play, and obviously some of it was the bias of having seen him, not just dominate high school basketball, but every time there was a big made for TV or made for

some sort of entertainment event, like he was just better than everybody else. He just was. I came out of high school in 1995. I was a fill-in in the magic round ball classic. And it had Vince Carter, Stefan Marbury, Paul Pierce, and Kevin Garnett wasn't

there for practice because he was studying for the SAT. Took the SAT Saturday. The game was Sunday. And when he showed up, he was that much better than everybody else. That's how LeBron appeared on the court. And then when LeBron walked into the press comments, she was like, wah.

Wah. Like it was just a different level of human being. And And there's, you know, the Spaniards, when they invaded Mexico, they used to ride in on their white horse, they would wear white because they wanted to appear to be godlike. And that's how LeBron appeared. He was just bigger than life. His smile was bigger. His muscles were bigger.

Everything about him was like, that's, I don't know what a, what a superstar looks like, normally when they're 18 or 19, but that's what it feels like. I bring it up because 16 years later, I don't want to put that he'll be LeBron because I don't think he is LeBron. I think he plays very differently. But there's a lot of things that make up guys into stars. Some is just their look, superstar look. Some is in their name, Shakespeare.

What is in a name? I don't know. but LeBron, Kobe, Zion. I don't know if he'll be as good as people in the NBA hope he will be. I don't. But there is something different about the way his sneakers squeak. Just are. No, he's only 6'5 in change.

If you see him in person in a basketball uniform, at least saw him this year. He does look like a guy that, like, if you've ever been to a high school basketball game and the star football player just gets out of pads and throws on a uniform, That's like he's thick and NBA players usually don't have thick legs and there's no fat on him. He's just thick. He's country strong. There's that there's that photo of him grabbing the basketball this year against Louisville where the basketball is like indented from his strength. It feels like it's that type of presence over this year's NBA draft.

Is the draft, does it have a litany of superstars or stars? even? Probably not. Has a lot of guys that we've barely seen. I could make the argument to you that this is the biggest reason why we continue to diminish the value of college basketball. College basketball sells you on these guys time and again. And with the one and done, if it moves to the none and done, you're going to have drafts where it's just a complete crapshoot. You have no idea and there's no real following. Like the reason you're in on Zion is because you saw him play at Duke. You saw him play in these games. And you saw him take over and how much better he appeared to be than other like competition at his age.

Put a Duke uniform on him and the whole thing explodes in terms of popularity. He made Duke likable. So I don't look, in my, in our lifetime, we've had the Freddie Adieus who was like 15 pro clubs. I know he's doing a youth sports thing now like in Baltimore or D.C. or something. I just read an article on Freddie Adieu, like whatever happened to Freddy Adieu. like whatever happened to Freddie A-Doo. I literally never understood what it was like to get along with teammates or to improve and to evolve. He got many a shot with some of the biggest clubs.

He was in with Manu for like a two-week tryouts in. And he got opportunity, played with the national team. He was supposed to be the great hope. He was supposed to be the play of American soccer. And he wasn't. But we have had Tiger, who we were told would be the greatest ever. and though he has not yet to pass Jack, you could easily make that argument

that he's the greatest golf forever. And you have LeBron, who we were told would be the greatest ever, and I would still say Jordan, but there are people that make the other argument that he's right there. Like, that's a lot to live up to, to being told at a young age.

The interesting thing about Zion was nobody thought he would be the best ever a year ago. Maybe nobody thinks he'll be the best ever now. But he didn't grow up. with the pressure of being told that he was going to be a superstar, the way that Tiger did or the LeBron did through high school. But a YouTube sensation combined with one season at Duke, combined with an exploding shoe,

combined with the power of the NCAA tournament, the power of the best rivalry in college basketball, like all of these things combined with a great smile, good hair, perfect name, and kind of an awgy shucks sway about him. And he seems to play because he likes to play basketball. And he has fun playing basketball. And it feels like, it feels more like 2003

than it's felt like since 2003. I'm not saying he's going to be better than Kevin Durant. And Kevin Durant did some things as a freshman at Texas that Zion didn't do. I don't know. I don't know if Zion's going to be as good as Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant, by my estimation, before he got hurt, was the best player in the NBA. Taking the throne from LeBron James and was the next guy.

But man, there's a lot of boxes that are checked. And it makes me excited. Like, I like to watch the draft. I've been into it. I follow it. I can go 80 deep on names on guys that I like. There's a new podcast, all. podcast, me and Jonathan Gavoni from Draft Express, go through so many of the guys in the draft?

But man, I wish I could see Zion Williamson play tonight in the NBA, don't you? And how many guys have you seen drafted that you're legitimately excited about seeing them in that uniform for the first time? Probably got a handful at best. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the

plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to SportsClace on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience

in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it

and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys?

This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the I-Heart Radio app. or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam?

It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, point game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game.

We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series. because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by,

like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers while he got the ball, like, after you go through a training camp with that, I say, you figure it out real quick.

Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This from Adrian Wojianowski on Kevin Durant's free agency. I'm told KD is doing a lot of soul searching right now, stepping back from the injury, processing all this for KD. You can go back to Golden State, five-year, $200 million-plus deal.

That gives them absolute assurance coming up to Seculey's injury. But Brooklyn and the Knicks are very much in the fight. And I thought about this, right? I know we all came to the conclusion that Kevin Rant was gone and that he was leaving, he was going to New York, likely with the Knicks more so than with the Nets, right? Like if you're going to make that kind of move, going to the Nets feels like going to the Clippers. They may be well-run organizations. They may have good teams.

But the branding of like the Clippers and the Nets is very, very similar. And the Nets have actually had a lot more success. They've been to NBA finals before. Been to playoffs more regularly, deeper in the playoffs. Clippers never been past the second round. And even though the Clippers have a good culture, they have a championship coach, you know,

they have one of the all-time great executives as an advisor, they got an owner that's willing to do whatever it takes to win and seems to really enjoy spending his money on the Clippers, still the Clippers and the other teams of Lakers. Like Kevin Durant's not an idiot to branding. So you might ask yourself, well, why would he think twice? Why hasn't he, if he's already meant, unpacked there. Maybe this is due diligence or maybe it's just a fear of the unknown,

which is a very reasonable fear to have. You can't in fact take out the money. Yes, it's a five years, $200 something million supermax deal is more money than his kids and grandkids could possibly spend if you manage it correctly. Combine that with the other investments in Silicon Valley, living in the valley, living in the valley, living in in San Francisco close to the valley. There's no reason to believe that he couldn't become a billionaire by the end of his contract. No reason.

So there is the money, and I do think money does matter. There's security in the money. And then if you go to the Knicks and you sit for a year, you're assuming that this culture that they're trying to establish will be set in place. And then by the time you come back, well now you'll be ready to compete for a championship but the likelihood is minimal at best you have a coach and david feels still that everybody likes but he's never won anything in the

NBA you have no players in the roster have currently won anything and maybe you get kairi to go with you okay maybe that helps survey taken back in 2015 about 54% of people said that they live close to proximity where they grew up. About 35% of that survey respondent said they moved away from home for a significant amount of time before ultimately moving back to where they grew up. Why? Because it makes him feel comfortable.

You're comfortable in the things that you know. Now, to some of you, you might say, well, he grew up in Baltimore. Why doesn't he go play for the Wizards? Well, one, they don't even have a GM. Two, he actually seems to have grown up, truly grown up? in San Francisco. Like, that's where he's become a man.

There was a big, bold decision. And even though there was the unknown of, how would it work? Me, playing with staff, playing with Clay, you knew they were going to win. No one thought that the Warriors were not going to win. That's actually what ticked everybody off, is you already knew they're going to win.

Then you add arguably the best player, best score. They're only going to win some more. The question wasn't, if they were going to win, it's how many titles, and by how many points, that's really what it became. going to the Knicks that haven't won a title since 73, that's unknown. Going to Brooklyn, he has no idea what that's like. That's unknown.

Why do people always get back with their ex? Why? Because they know, even if it's a guy, like he's got bad breath. You know, he's messy. He can say things that are not. not kind. You know, but even the bad things you know, fear can be crippling. And having left places before, the unknown, man, that's like, that's that feeling on a

roller coaster when you finally start to descend. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Kevin O'Connor from the ringer will join us. He is a native Bostonian. He actually cut his teeth. not physically, it's more of a It's not a literal thing. It's more of a figurative thing.

Cut his teeth doing a Celtics blog. We'll ask Kim about his take on Kyrie and on the sudden and by some people's estimation abrupt departure of Al Horford. And how much does he blame Danny Age? But let's start with the other coast, the L.A. Lakers. Now, they parted ways with the number four pick

as part of the trade for Anthony Davis. They are in the market for second round picks because as we informed you yesterday and probably you've read second down second round picks don't cost against the cap. So just because it doesn't look like the Lakers are players tonight doesn't mean they won't have some sort of interest in what takes place tonight and may not become players tonight and getting some second round picks. But we're still reacting to Anthony Davis becoming a Laker. And we started the week trying to wonder did they pay too much. And my thought was, yeah, especially because didn't they have leverage in this thing?

Right? Didn't they? Like, it wasn't a bidding war? The Celtics, Celtics weren't, you know, weren't ponying up Jason Tatum. If it was, Jason Tatum was in Jason Tatum in combination with anybody else. The Knicks didn't have anything to trade. The Nets, the Celtics. Tell me who else had something, and Anthony Davis's representation, Rich Paul had made it clear. Wanted to be a Laker, noted. So what does he end up landing with?

Now, there have been a lot of people that have come out and said, like, the Lakers screwed this thing up because of the timing, which there's some of that. The reality to it is this. The reality to it is that if you're going to trade those guys, if you're going to trade that fourth pick, you can't really wait till the 31st. Should that have been addressed in negotiations and used as part of your leverage?

Yes. Yes. The Lakers do have a capologist. They did review it with their capologist before ultimately concluding the deal because the deal went down on Saturday, but on Friday the capologist had already given the thumbs up to the deal. And they were waiting for all the medicals to come back. So it wasn't that they didn't go through the correct process, but did they use this as leverage in the deal?

You guys know what the law of unintended consequences is? I'm fascinated with the law of unintended consequences. See, the law of unintended consequences is, and I love, like, this is the great thing about, it's kind of the cool thing about being a parent, believe it or not, is there are some things that you learn that stick out in your mind that you get to share with your kids. Also, you get to relearn things that you kind of forgotten. I know? my daughter for studying for a final was like hey dad i just learned what monazuma's revenge was i was

like whoa did you have something you should defeat and she's like no i'm actually studying that part of aztec history aztec lore i was like oh okay um law of unintended consequences are outcomes that are not ones foreseen or intended by a purposeful action right we're taught this in science very early on every action is with an equal and opposite reaction. Cause and effect. Do you guys remember that one? Okay.

So cause and effect. And oftentimes we become kind of linear thinkers. And we're like cause and effect, cause and effect. And the unintended consequences during the season of the Lakers pursuing Anthony Davis was it killed the chemistry within the team, right? Unintended consequence. Now, you know some of these unintended consequences, but oftentimes you do not. You don't see it.

It's called a perverse result, a perverse effect contrary to what originally intended. Or a backfire, right? It backfires for you. And that seems to be what's happened with the Lakers and with Rich Paul. His intended consequence was to get LeBron James, a fellow superstar, one who's much younger, and one who can do some of the things that LeBron can no longer do. And, oh, yeah, by the way, bring them to the second biggest market in the country, one of the great historic franchises in the country, and give both the opportunity to grow together on the court and grow off the court, right?

That's the intended consequence of forcing an Anthony Davis trade to the L.A. Lakers. The unintended consequence is because you were so visible. because you came out several times, even in the week leading up to the actual trade, saying, hey, you can trade for him, but there is no way that he's resigning. You thought, in your mind, you were like, man, the intended consequences so that it eliminates the competition of Boston.

It eliminates the competition of places he doesn't want to go. We said the Knicks just to throw you a bone. We knew the Knicks didn't have the assets to trade, but we had to say somebody else and make it seem like it was a big market. and so that's what we did. The intended consequence was to make sure absolutely sure that the Lakers got Anthony Davis. But the perverse result was that

because there was such pressure on Rob Polinka. And look, Rob Polinka is not only inexperienced, there's no assistant GM on the Lakers. They're the only NBA team that doesn't have an assistant GM. So you're talking about a dude who's never pulled off this type of blockbuster trade. before with David Griffin, who's been doing it for 25 years, right? Like, it's an experienced mismatch.

One rival GM said, let's just wait to, let's just wait to see who lost the negotiation. What we can say with certainty is all the pressure surrounding Polinka. Of course, you had Magic Johnson pointing fingers, calling him a backstabber. 1,000% creates pressure on him to deliver on something. something like this. And when you're under that sort of pressure to deliver something like this, you're at a disadvantageous negotiating position. One other team executives said, never let your GM be in a spot where he needs to make a trade to save his job. Not once did LeBron come out and say,

hey, Rob choose to make the trade, doesn't choose to make the trade, I got his back. Not once did Rich Paul say the same thing. They should have had leverage. Let me, let me, can Can I share with you, do you have that stat, the, what's the stat, the Mike Trout stat? Listen to the stat. Mike Trout had seven RBI last night. He's ridiculous. But that's not the great stat on Mike Trout. I mean, this is just an obscene number.

Listen to this. With a grand slam and an RBI single with bases loaded last night, Mike Trout is hitting 420. 420 in 69, 69, sorry. 420 and 69 at bats in his career with the bases loaded. Wait, wait, wait. Let me repeat this. 69 at bats. He's been up 69 times.

He's 29 for 69 with six home runs and 101 RBI. 101 RBI for a season. You know, 400 at bats, that's a good year. In 69 at bats with the bases loaded, he has 101 RBI. In other words, in advantageous situations where you have to pitch to him. I mean, it's college baseball. It's the only time I've ever seen. They walked the kid from Morgan State with bases loaded.

With that is the exception. You have to pitch to him. And he's the best hitter in baseball anyway. And he proves to be the best hitter under some sort of pressure because there's bases loaded, right? Ducks on the pond. That's what the Lakers had. the Lakers had ducks on the pond. They had assets.

They had draft picks. They had cap space. And they had a player who said, hey, that's where I want to be. And an agent who said, hey, that's where he wants to be. But instead of just letting it organically take place, Rich Paul forced the issue. Force the issue. Because the intended consequence was to make it absolutely clear.

clear, like in a few good men, crystal, crystal clear that Anthony Davis was to be in L.A. But even though everybody already knew this, you didn't have to come out to say it. You didn't have to pressure your GM. And there certainly didn't have to be the pressure of the GM because all abroad had to do is put his arm around him and go like, hey, man, you make a trade, you don't make a trade. I'm rolling with these guys. We're good. This is our team. Let's go.

But instead, the unintended consequence was not a lot of the unintended consequence was not. did they give up too much and was their pressure on GM and did they lose leverage in a trade in which they had all the leverage in the world? They screwed up their cap situation. And now they got to figure out a way to fix it before July 1st, before this deal gets consummated, maybe throwing something else in, maybe trading away somebody else that they actually want to keep to create more cap spaces and get more guys. The law of unintended consequences can can backfire. And the result can be the perverse result, which is the backfire.

And it feels like between Rich Paul, the pressure of the media, the pressure of players, the inexperience of Rob Polinka, the lack of a supporting cast with no assistant general manager. Look, end of the day, they got a great player. They got LeBron, they got Anthony Davis. You know, Kyle Corver, J.R. Smith, get bought out. They'll figure it out. They'll be fine. Will they win a championship? No idea. But it wasn't as good or as smooth or as clean a deal. And in many ways, you listen to or read some of the commentary about it and people are still pointing out that the Lakers are poorly run, even though they pulled off the blockbuster deal to get one of the best players in the NBA. And those are unintended consequences.

Want more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsClyce brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsClace on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 and the TikTok podcast. network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a

decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tript Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person

while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing,

growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hard Radio app. hard way and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th.

And on my podcast, The Clivert Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out.

Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clipper Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and IHeart Podcasts presents soccer moms. So I'm Leanne.

Yeah. This is my best friend, Janet. Hey. And we have been joined at the hips since high school. Absolutely. Now a redacted amount of years later. We're still joined at the hip, just a little bit bigger hips, wider. This is a podcast.

We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer gate. in the back of my Honda Odyssey with all the snacks and drink sidebar why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer they had a bogo well then you got it do you want a white color something here just take what are y'all doing microphones are you making a rap album I would come on you put I would buy it cuts through the defense like a hot knife through sponge cake that sounds delicious oh you're lucky I'm not a drug addict you're like I'm not an alcoholic you're lucky I'm not a killer I love this team, and I'm really trying to be a figure in their lives that they can rely on.

Oh. Listen to soccer moms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Kevin O'Connor covers the NBA for The Ringer. By the way, I'd encourage you to go to dunk oncancer.com. Check out his fundraising efforts after a really unbelievable heartfelt story wrote about his father and his dad's fight with cancer. Kevin, of course, is it's not just basketball. It's anybody with a heart, but an incredible story.

You should read if you go to the ringer or if you follow him on Twitter. Kevin joins us here in the herd. Kevin, let's start with, I mean, part of the story that I didn't know when I read your initial story when we had you on previously was that you got your start as a Celtics fan who became a Celtics blogger, right? So I got to ask you in recent days.

there are people that are not happy about what's going on in Boston with, we expect the departure of Kyrie Irving, but now you got Al Horford, now we opting out, but apparently looking for more money elsewhere. What do you think of what's going on in Boston? It's all sort of blown up for the Celtics, hasn't it? I think one year ago around this time, we're heading into the off season, talking about the Celtics collectively, all of us, you know, NBA media and fans of having one of the brightest features.

and basketball, a team that could possibly, you know, make a run at the finals and the lawyer, make a run at beating the Warriors. But this shows like the thin margin forever error for teams. And I think in regards to Kyrie Irving specifically, the risks in giving up future asset for a star player when there's no confidence in them signing long term there. It's worked out for Oklahoma City. It may work out for Toronto, but for Boston they gave up quite a bit. but it's a risk that you make every time.

I think some of the bashing of Danny Aange for some of the past decisions that he's made or the unwillingness to give up assets for trades are fine. But I do think they've made a lot of good decisions along the way. It just has not worked out for them. But heading into the offseason, it's going to be fascinating to see what this team does in the draft, too. It takes 14, 20, and 22. They still have an appealing future. But losing two-star players, Horford and Irving.

suddenly they look like a team is destined to be just sort of in the middle for quite some time now. Yeah. On the other hand, like, we don't know if Gordon Hayward can get it back, right? It took Paul, how long to take Paul George to get it back? And I'm not saying that Gordon Hayward will be Paul George, but he was an All-Star. He clearly wasn't himself this year. And Paul George was an All-Star, and he wasn't really himself his first year back either. And I wonder if next year we'll see more of Gordon Hayward.

and how they can continue to fix things because they have they have solved the equation times before and like I point this out about Horford like I kind of get it you know somebody wants to offer him four years at over a hundred million dollars like at 36 and 37 I'm sorry he's not worth 30 million dollars a year yeah you know that's the intriguing thing here is Boston it's like with Kyrie when the deal was made I remember talking to an executive at the time I said wow this is a big deal for Boston and this is a big deal for Boston and this is a executive to the knees. I'm not for sure. I don't buy Kyrie Irving as a leader for a franchise. In the past two years,

there were up for Kyrie and there was a lot of downs. And those downs really manifested this season with the issues he had with the coaching staff, with the younger players from that team.

And moving forward, like we're currently saying the doubt some teams are expressing and signing him without another star coming. So with Kyrie, specifically, it's like,

it's not like, it's just a show the best idea in the world to give him the full, the max contract moving forward, either considering the issues in the locker room, considering the issues that he's had in the past with his health, the knee issues that he's had. So it's like with Horford-Bage, with Irving's, you know, locker room and health issues, for Boston, like, there was risk also in keeping these guys. So for them, like, I wonder, okay, if these guys both leave, what's the alternative now?

You can create around $23 million on cap space or more if you renounce the right to some of your other free agents. So what's the plan now? Is it spending that money investing it now or is it pumping cap space and trying to open up max space in 2021, a year that's loaded in free agents? It's always about what the next plan is, regardless of the stuff that's out of your control. So I think with Boston, they're still in a position with immense flexibility with their assets, draft picks, and young players on their roster. So they continue to be one of the more interesting teams in the NBA, especially tonight with the three first-round draft picks that they had. What do you think about what the Lakers have done?

The Anthony Davis trade, in my opinion, like despite all the shenanigans that people have been talking about the past couple days with the salary cap issues and all that, I still think the trade itself was a no-brainer. You are one of the few teams, maybe the only team that can say it has two top ten players in the league that immediately vaults you from a non-playoff team this past season to a potential finals contender. And not only that, it's like I think a lot of people who have talked about like the importance of adding depth. And that goes without saying, like you need to build around LeBron James and Anthony Davis.

However, the investment in Anthony Davis is not just for the next three years. It's for the Lakers, they hope the next 10 years. It's for when LeBron is either old or gone. And for Anthony Davis, he is always going to be somebody who is going to be alert to other free agents in the future. So for the Lakers, this is a long-term investment just as much as it is a short-term investment. But now we'll come to challenge that there's really the true hallmark for the good general managers versus the bad ones that's adding the right supporting cast around these guys. Yeah.

Okay. So who do you think it is? Do you believe they'll be able to get a top-level free agent? From what I've heard, like, it's not going to happen for them with a Kawhi Leonard type. I still think they would have a chance at Kemba. Maybe if I've heard Tyree is going to Brooklyn, however, maybe if they get cold feet, Kyrie decides to opt the team up again with LeBron. I'm doubtful about that.

I think they're going to be in it, and that's their first choice. But it's not surprise me at all if they end up just trying to give out a handful of one-year deals or one-on-ones to some of the lower-end free agents trying to build this roster. You know what? like maybe maybe like that could be for the best rather than adding that third star just building a stronger deeper roster we just saw with toronto the importance and having like quality depth players like they have one superstar in kawai lettered and granted golden state was hurt and that's one of the reasons why they lost but having guys like

siakum and ben bleat and danny green is so important to the championship formula and so for the lakers maybe it actually would be a bit better signing four or five guys to like that, you know, $6 million per range rather than one guy at 32 and then just getting a bunch of league men in them. Kevin O'Connor joining us. Okay. And then you have the Houston Rockets who. Oh, boy.

Right? I mean, who could have seen this coming? Everybody could have seen it coming. On the other hand, there is this kind of like, all right, well, the Warriors are kind of a mess right now. The Lakers, even though they have two great players, they have literally like four guys under contract or three guys under. I think I have four players under contract.

Like, we weren't that far away. Like, let's maybe run this one back. But when you make everybody available for trade, when you get rid of the entire assistant coaching staff, when you threaten to not give a contract extension to a coach who's in a lame duck status, like it feels like this is a bit of a dumpster fire. What do you think happens in Houston?

you know, I think with this feeling, first of all, it's a shame. Like, this happened. They missed the 27, three-pointers in a row last year in the playoffs, would have went to the finals and probably would have beaten Cleveland. And this year, they had an opportunity to be Gold State again and didn't. And now it's like this whole thing could blow up. And with Hardin and Chris Paul, it's kind of odd to me that Mike Dantonio has sort of evaded blame a bit here.

And I really, you know, love the system overall. I think it's a no-brainer to put the ball into James Harden's hands. However, I do think in a playoff setting, running the pick-and-roll over and over, isolation over and over, becomes a bit predictable, a bit rigid. And I would have liked to have seen him integrate a bit more motion, blending two different styles within the system. Because the fact is, is that Harder and Chris Paul rarely ever assisted each other over there two seasons together. And one of the reasons why is just the nature of the offense of pick-and-roll in isolation. If maybe they're integrating a bit more ball movement, it would have made their system a bit more harder to predict, harder to defend for defenses, but also would have maybe created better flow between James Hardin or Chris Paul because on paper, those guys should be able to coexist. Chris Paul is a knockdown spot up shooter. James Hardin is a knockdown spot up shooter.

Hardin is a good cutter. He showed that in college. He showed that in Oklahoma City. And he showed even in his first couple years of Houston. These guys should be able to work together. But the fact it didn't work, I think, is sort of, it relates somewhat to the system and Dan Tony's maybe unwillingness or maybe it's because of hardened, but I would largely pen it on Dan Tony there for not integrating a bit more motion within the system

to balance out the heavy pick and roll and heavy isolation, which is important. It does work, but I think they needed a bit more variance within their offense. I agree with much of what you said, but the big part was you said, part was you said on paper and it's not you know that's on paper is one thing the reality is they both need the ball in their hands can they shoot spot up shots yes but they they're just they're not comfortable playing that way and chris paul like the rest of america gets is tired of watching james hardin over dribble the basketball even if he is effective once he does something and james hardin much like most people in the NBA doesn't seem to love how chris paul likes to

lead a team and thinks he's a bad teammate so That's definitely part of the game. Right. And again, on paper, they shouldn't miss 27 threes in row. That shouldn't happen. But that's the reality of sport as opposed to as opposed to the synthetic reality of how it appears kind of on paper. All right. Tonight is an interesting night. I, look, I think Zion has a chance to be a transcendent pro. Different than LeBron, different than some others.

What's your level of excitement and expectations for Zion Williamson as opposed to other NBA drags? I think with Zion, like there's no doubt that he's going to be a good NBA player for a long time. When you consider the fact that he is somebody with his potential defensive versatility, that can be a foundation of his game, defending a cross position, ability to protect a rim with his athleticism, to handle larger players of 280 pounds and the quickness and mobility he has on the perimeter. If he develops its fundamentals and his awareness over time, he could be an all defensive player.

That's the foundation for his game on defense. And on offense, just a rim-running lob guy that can also handle the ball and do the short-roll thing like Draymond Green, who can throw down lobs like Blake Griffin. That's going to be the foundation of his game. But what's going to really, like you mentioned, he could be a transcendent player, the different, what he's going to have to do to reach that level is continue improving his handle. He needs to improve creating off the dribble, dribbling into his shot. He's going to need to have to improve his spot-up jumper from the. the perimeter because as of now, he's more like a 6-7, 6-8, 280-pound center, which is great. Like, he can be a franchise player like that, but there's still room for improvement for him

to reach that transcendent face of the league type of potential. Fact is, though, we're talking about him having that potential, and it's there. It's just there is a ways to go for him to actually get there. He's not destined. He's not the chosen one like LeBron James. There's a lot of room for him to grow. No question about it. No question about it.

it. Do you believe there'll be a blockbuster trade tonight? I don't think we'll have a blockbuster trade, but I think we will have quite a bit of movement, especially in the mid-first, late-first range. And like, that's the funny thing about this year's draft. Every year mock draft gets thrown out the window. The second, the one surprising pick is made. But this year in particular, in our Ringer NBA draft guide, I find it particularly hard to type them through intel from sources and all that, to figure out where guys are going to go. Because guess what? And the executives don't even know.

Because we don't know which teams are going to be picking where with the amount of movement that could have. No, and sometimes picks are made. They're actually made for somebody else, not made for the team that's actually selecting them. Give me a star player that you are a star player that you believe will be traded. Tonight? In general. Tonight or in the coming week as we lead up to free agency.

It would not surprise me if Kevin Love gets moved at some point. There's been a little bit of chatter overhauling him. I'm not sure if he qualifies as a star anymore, but he's a fading star at least. I think Kevin Love is the first guy who comes to mind, especially in this wide open NBA. He can still offer a lot to a team as a rebounder, passer, and as a floor spacer. I think Kevin Love is somebody to keep an eye on. Where does Kevin Durant end up? Boy, it's interesting.

I would say over the past couple of weeks, the possibility from staying. in Gold State has certainly increased. I would still bet on the next though, but I've lost a lot of confidence in that. Yeah, yeah. And then what would the Warriors look like if he stays? How do they maintain staff's health for a year when he has to try and carry the team?

What do they do to fix the rest of that roster? Last thing, the NBA Finals MVP. Everyone has thought he's going to the Clippers. Now there's kind of a new push that he may stay inside a 1 plus 1. where do you think Kawhi Leonard plays next year? I think he should sign the one plus one in Toronto, make another championship push one more year.

The clippers aren't going to go anywhere. They'll punt cap space if they need to to wait one more year for Kawhi. But for him, it's really going to have to be a decision between family. If it's about L.A. or if it's about, you know, being a face of Canadian basketball, I would bet on the one-in-one with Toronto.

But he's another guy where he's another else's, somebody else is impossible to predict. Please go to dunk oncancer.com. That's dunk oncancer.com. Follow him on Twitter at Kevin O'Connor. Of course, you can download his work on the ringer. Kevin, great stuff. Enjoy the draft tonight.

We'll catch up real soon. Thank you, Doug. Appreciate it. Have a great day. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. And every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories,

their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL

late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funny. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee.

We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out of my. Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, ref, my mama wants you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker.

Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, point. Point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments.

If we didn't talk ever again, I was calling me. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come until he's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball.

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