The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Best of The Herd for 12/13/2019

Episode Date: December 13, 2019

Colin explains why Lamar Jackson surpassing Michael Vick's rushing record isn't what was most impressive about him on Thursday night. He disagrees with the idea that the Cowboys talent is overrated and that's why they've been struggling. Plus, Peter King of NBC Sports comes in studio for a long discussion about Lamar Jackson, the dynamic between Belichick and Brady, his ideal Super Bowl match-up and why the Raiders leaving Oakland is sad for the NFL. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

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Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. Ramos sending on to Ernie Stewart, the chip. Score! I'm Tab Ramos. I'm Tom Boke. On our podcast, Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines, the biggest decisions, and the truth about the U.S. national team.

It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tab Ramos on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for listening to The Best of Heard Podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday. From 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1, Find your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeartRadio app by searching Herd. This is the best of the herd with Colin Cowherd on Fox Sports Radio. Oh, here we go on a Friday episode, jammed. Live in Los Angeles, this is The Herd.

Wherever you may be in, however you may be listening, we're on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio and FS1 for the first time ever. one hour from now, a blazing six. I like my picks so much. I'm giving you an additional pick. It's like I'm paying for your Christmas presents. I mean, seriously, you should be guilty at this point. Peter King joins us in studio next hour.

Joy Taylor is here. I got a lot of energy. I have a lot of energy. I have a lot of energy. Fired up this morning. I am. It was a great game, though, last night. I was, I was at her time.

entertaining. Lamar's entertaining, okay? Let me start with something I really like. When I started doing this for a living, this broadcasting thing, people said, oh, you're just a contrarian. And I said, no, one of the things in life I really enjoy doing in this business is taking rigid people and stuck in their way guy and never seen it other than their opinion guy and making them go, that's a different way to see the world. I like doing that because I think, there's no one way to do most things. I think there are certain life habits and traits that make you more successful. But Lamar Jackson's doing that, and I love it.

He's taking people who see football played one way, and you have to look at it a different way. I love – he's a little bit of a football, not only a disruptor, but a contrarian. I mean, they're a time of possession offense, but they're a big playoffense. They play 100 miles an hour, but they make no mistakes. They're a ground and pound team, but they average almost nine yards of cats last night. The league is not used to this. And they're making everybody go, whoa, you can't be that and that.

And I've had several friends who have gone to a game where Lamar plays, and they're like, oh, he's better in person. He's actually better in person. He's faster in person. So that's what I love. Now, let me tell you something I don't love about the whole Lamar thing. Can we stop ripping people because Lamar's, dropped to late in the first round.

Does everybody realize the Ravens didn't pick him first? The Ravens drafted a tight end in the first round before him. So if the Ravens were so oh my God, we knew this was going to they drafted a backup tight end before him. They didn't even get the tight ends right. They drafted

two tight ends in the draft. The second one they drafted is way better than the first. They didn't know if Lamar was going to be this good. They thought he was a project. That's why they moved up to get him late first round so they could get that extra year in his contract because privately they're like he's good. We think this could take a while.

And if you watched him last year, in two or three games, you're like, oh, he's a little bit of a project. He worked his butt off. They figured out how to use him. Greg Roman's amazing. That's the part of this I don't like. Joe Montana went in the third round. Tom Brady in the six. I still don't know if Dak and Kirk Cousins are any good.

It's a hard position to figure out. And he was a hard guy. I saw him and Josh Allen's projects. I thought they'd work. I just saw it would take it a while. And by the way, both are very good. Lamar's going to be the MVP. So that's the thing I like.

He's making us look differently at football. The thing I don't like is stop. The Ravens picked him second in the first round. But here's the thing that really amazes me. When you watch young quarterback, Sam Darnold sometimes plays very young. Baker not only plays young, but sounds young at the podium. Kyler Murray sometimes makes young guy mistakes. Josh Allen's good, but he still looks young.

Lamar doesn't look young. The game's not overwhelming him. I tend to look at a quarterback's feet. Are they nervous? Are they dancing around? When I can see Lamar's feet because they're moving so fast, the game doesn't overwhelm Lamar. In fact, he's overwhelming the game.

And some of this is because he played quarterback in high school for three years. He started and he got 25, 26 starts in. And then he went to college and he played early and he got 35 college starts in. So he's been playing quarterback for a long time. And this has been his style. But I have a friend who used to be a professional water skier, and he tried to teach me how to water ski. And I remember getting up there thinking, oh, my God, we're going so fast. Oh, my God.

He's like, you're almost going the slowest you can go and still stay afloat. But with Lamar, because he's been playing at 100 miles an hour like a race car driver, going 75 for him is pumping the brakes. Lamar plays at a speed in which he's totally comfortable playing at the speed and nobody else is comfortable. The game gets too fast for Sam Darnold, for Baker, for Kyler. I thought early it was too fast. But it's not too fast for him because he is lightning speed. He's been driving a race car for 60 starts and 75 miles an hour for him is slowing it down. His decision making is remarkable considering the speed in which he plays.

And I know a lot of people are on the whole month. Michael Vic thing and he broke Michael Vick's record. I don't care about that. I'm not a stat guy. I just don't care. I like data, but I'm not into, you know, Heismans and stats. But if you want to compare him, I will. He's more mature than Michael Vick was coming into the league.

He's a much better thrower than Kaepernick was. He's much more focused than Cam Newton. He reminds me of a more athletic Steve Young, a little bit like a super fast Russell Wilson. He's a lot of several people. But I'll go back to the thing that makes him special. Between his first year and his second year, he's a grown-up. He listened to the criticism. Unlike Baker, he wasn't ticked by it.

He used it as jet fuel. He got thicker. He worked on his passing. He's coachable. He's mature. He defines what a franchise quarterback. A lot of guys are fast. That doesn't mean you're a franchise quarterback.

It's the maturity, the understanding, the big. big picture. Now, I still think this offseason, he needs to go to a baseball camp and learn how to slide. And I guarantee you, he will because he's coachable. Franchise quarterback's not just about, man, he's got a big arm. Wow, he's fast. After the game, he had this to say, and it goes back to, this is 30% of quarterback is the other stuff. We know as tangibles are good. It's the intangibles. Here they are again on display. It's pretty cool. I don't know when I'm. I don't know when I I broke it. I know people.

Very early. When I told you, congratulations. Okay, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I was trying to be locked in.

No. You know, I was trying to be locked in. The whole entire game. You know, the goal is to win, you know, not break a record. But I'm happy. You know, my teammates happen for me. It's Michael Vick, so it's amazing, man. I'm grateful.

Didn't really care about it. Didn't really remember breaking it. Wasn't a big deal. Didn't say get me the football. I love that he's making all of the. of us who have watched football forever see it differently. He's a contrarian without even trying to be. I love that.

I am tired of, how did anybody pass on him? The Ravens did. But his ability, his split decisions, his nimble, twitchy mind that gets things done quickly with no mistakes is fascinating. And when you play that fast, I guess 75 miles an hour is fast for everybody else. And it's slow for you. Love watching him play. All right, so let's shift gears to Troy Aikman is a former Hall of Fame quarterback, obviously, and now a broadcaster for Fox.

And he was talking about something we joined I have discussed. How good are the Cowboys actually? And Aitman was talking about their talent, and here he goes. I've reached out to a lot of people around the league that have played the Cowboys and have studied them on film. And there are coaches that think this is an overrated roster. Okay, and it's interesting. maybe it is, and I tend to agree. But when you talk great, not very good, Amari Cooper's very good, but Zeke is a great talent,

probably the first or second best player in the league at his position. The Cowboys have four great players. Tyron Smith when healthy left tackle, Travis Frederick the center, Zach Martin, maybe the best offensive lineman currently at right guard, and Zeke. Those are great players. Those are Hall of Fame level players. Now, Amari Cooper, Jalen Smith are very good. Wouldn't put him great yet.

Well, let's look at Baltimore. So Lamar Jackson right now, he's great. And Earl Thomas, the safety, is great. And Ronnie Stanley left tackle is great. And Marshall Yonda, right guard, is great. And then they got about three really good players, Mark Ingram, Mark Andrews, Jimmy Smith, Marcus Peters. Let's look at the Saints. Everybody loves the Saints right now.

Michael Thomas is great. Drew Breeze is great. There's no question. Ryan Ramcheck, the offensive lineman is great, and Cameron, Jordan is great. Alvin Kamara is really good, a little down year is good. So they get about four. San Francisco, to me, he's got four or five. Nick Bose is great.

George Kittle is great. Richard Sherman this year is, boy, has he been great. And DeForest Buckner, the defensive lineman's great. Then they've got Emmanuel Sanders is very, very good. You know, they've got some very, very good player. Jimmy Gropel is a very good player. my point is if you have four great players like the cowboys do you can't be six and seven which points back to coaching you just can't be sick because all those other teams are 11 and 2

and 12 and 3 and you start looking around the NFL if you have new england has one stephan gilmore he is great outside of that they got about not they have a lot of very good players eight or nine Brady right now is a really good player it's not great this year so i guess my point is is Dallas's roster overrated? They have four Hall of Fame level players and then about four really goods. That's top, that's new to the top of the league. That's where Baltimore is at.

But Baltimore is a freight train. And the Saints are going to be favored in the NFC to get to the Super Bowl. And San Francisco rolls somebody about every other week. So with Dallas, I do think when you're really, Seattle, by the way, only has three great players. Russell Wilson, Bobby Wagner, Jadavian Clowny are the highest-grated guys on PFF by a mile for Seattle. Then they've got the running back seventh round kid really good.

So here's what I know. Dallas is one of those seven or eight teams in the league that probably has four great players that will get Hall of Fame boats. And they also have about three really, really, really, really good players. You can't be six and seven. You can't be six and seven. because all those other teams are winning divisions, nine wins, 10 wins, 11 wins, Dallas has six. To me, it's a coaching issue. Maybe a little overrated, but a coaching issue.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode we're cutting through the noise.

Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action. with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit,

suit of the thing. We get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns

Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me. Kier Gains is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway.

Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What?

Where's he at? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without. Luca and Austin Reed.

And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid.

He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on all offense. And when IT's friends stopped by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you gonna get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The game this week that's interesting, when you look, when I look at the NFL

I look at the NFL standings every morning in our meeting. I feel like I know who the playoff teams are in the AFC. They feel like playoff teams. Baltimore, New England, Kansas City, despite the Texans last week. And I feel Buffalo is a playoff team, and I feel like Tennessee is. Right now, Pittsburgh is in the wild card. They don't feel like a playoff team to me. They feel like an incredibly well-coached, young fun defense that can't throw the ball for 190 yards.

I mean, the last month, they can't throw the ball. they're getting special teams touchdowns, playing some weaker quarterbacks. I feel like I've seen the six best teams in the AFC. Ravens, Chiefs, Texans, most of the time, Kansas City, Buffalo, and Tennessee right now. In the NFC, I also feel like I can kind of tell. San Francisco, Green Bay, New Orleans, Seattle, Minnesota feel like playoff teams. Dallas doesn't feel like one, but is going to get in there because Philadelphia's got no healthy players. But I got to tell you, keep your eye on the Rams.

who go to Dallas this weekend. The NFC does this to us every year. Last year, Seattle's 4 and 5. We had all sold our stock on Seattle. They won 6 of 7. Seattle's got a very good coach and a productive quarterback, and they play defense. And then there was Dallas last year.

They went 3 and 5, and we sold all our stock on Dallas, and they went 7 of 8. And then we've had teams like, you know, Atlanta and Philadelphia, a little bit of Super Bowl hangover, start the next year, Luggest. Last year, Philly, four, and six. Then they won five of six and made the playoffs.

Atlanta, a couple years ago, four and four. Nobody cared about them in their division. We were watching Cam. We were watching Drew Breeze. And Atlanta won six of eight. Falcons won six of eight and made the playoffs. So this year, the Rams are interesting. Very good to start the season. Then they went into the abyss. And they were six and five, and they were crushed by Baltimore and were like, eh, no way. Now they've won two straight. and they've got six components that playoff teams have. You may not think they're special, but here are the six components they have. They have a great coach.

We wouldn't dispute that. They have a very good defense since Jalen Ramsey arrived that outside of Baltimore has stopped everybody. They have excellent special teams. They have an incredibly workable schedule. They have in 2019, really good weapons. They have a really good receiving core and a really good running back in terms girly of catching. They have excellent tight end. and the other thing, they have a hot quarterback.

Two of the last three weeks, red hot. Last two weeks on fire. So to me, I feel like I know who's a playoff team in the AFC, and I know who's a playoff team in the NFC. Rams are interesting. They've got a very workable schedule. They're favored over Dallas, and they're going to be favored over Arizona,

and they've won two straight, and I got the coach, the defense, the special teams, the weapons, check, check, check, check. What don't I have? You guys don't buy into golf. do, maybe that's the answer. Maybe this weekend he's unraveled and golf's no good. But I think the Rams are going to win that game. It's one of my blazing five picks. I'll tell you right now. And that's the interesting one because I kind of feel like at this point, we'll go week 14,

week 15. I kind of know all the answers to the test now, except one. It's the Rams. Don't forget, Seattle, Atlanta, Dallas, Philadelphia. We sold all our stock going into December and they became the hottest team in the NFC, each individually. What's going on, everybody? John Middlecock, three-and-out podcast. Brought to you by Colin Cowers Podcast Network. You like Colin's show. You'll like mine. I talk football, football, and then more football.

Coming up on this show, Lamar Jackson, did he officially lock up the MVP against the Jets? And Joe Burrow, destined to win the Heisman Trophy. What does that mean for his NFL future? John Middellop, that's me, three-and-out podcast. Go subscribe. This is not really a college football topic, but when you watch the college football playouts, You're going to have Justin Fields, Ohio State, Joe Burrow. You're going to have Jalen Hertz, and then you're going to have Trevor Lawrence at Clemson.

Trevor Lawrence is considered the pocket guy. He's 6-7-220, has seven rushing touchdowns and over 400 yards running. He's the pocket guy. Okay? Even the pocket college quarterback in 2019 is a great athlete. This thing has changed at lightning speed. within one year, all the top quarterback prospects are hyper-athletic. Within one year, all the MVP candidates at quarterback in the NFL are hyper-athletic.

Folks, it was only three years ago that when Jared Goff went number one, it was fitting. He had all the characteristics we want. He was tall. He had a nice arm. He didn't get hurt running around. He was a pocket guy. Now, overnight. Height no longer matters.

Overnight, it mattered my entire life. No longer matters. What college system you played in. Nobody cares. We'll just figure out what you did in college. Use most of it in the NFL. Suddenly overnight, he's a pocket guy. Oh, no.

Can he move a little? Can I get a little Lamar? You get a little? Little Patrick Mahomes? I mean, it feels a little bit to me like the iPhone. Like one day nobody had it. And then a year later, everybody had it. Like technology sometimes, it moves at warp speed.

You know, it used to be, it took, you know, J.C. Penny. You know, everything was like baseball. It took forever to change. And then tech comes around and tech companies are hot and then are out of business. That's what this feels like. It's like a tech move. It used to be you cannot win a Super Bowl. without a pocket guy.

And then we've had two or three things converge at the same time. And the two or three things that are converging is college football now is just giving you athletes at quarterback. As Bill Parcell said, we can only do with what the college game gives us. Number two is offensive line play for a variety of reasons has regressed badly in the NFL. Your quarterback better be able to move or like Breeze and Brady check down because they're encyclopedias after 20 years of playing and just get rid of the ball can manipulate the pocket pre-snap.

There's like four guys in the planet. Maybe two, to be honest, Breeze and Brady that can do that. Russell Wilson, I think,'s developed into that. Aaron Rogers pretty close. But this thing has, it's just changed. It's light speed how it's changed. I also think stylistically, the reason football's ratings are up on every network, college, and pro is the NBA game stylistically turns some people off.

All they do is shoot threes. baseball stylistically is turning people off. It's all strikeouts and home runs. Football stylistically, it's never been more fun. I get my best athlete that touches the ball now 65 times a game. It's fun. Football now is hard to take your eyes off on this stuff. I mean, Joe Burroughs considered a pocket guy. He was a high school, all state basketball player, and moves all over the pocket.

Unbelievable pocket presence and awareness. So I think it's fun. I think, you know, just a couple years ago, think about this. Three years ago, Aaron Rogers defined athlete at quarterback. Like now it's, it's, I don't even, his name doesn't even pop up. The other thing, I want to give credit to Russell Wilson. Because Russell Wilson opened the door on this.

Lamar Jackson has just sprinted through it. Russell Wilson is why height doesn't matter. Back to back Super Bowls. Russell Wilson, 30 years old, never being hurt. Oh, this running stuff is sustainable. Is why guys who move around like Kyler and Lamar are now going to go in the first round? Russell Wilson opened the door for this. Now, Lamar has sprinted right through that door faster than anybody ever.

But there is a Steph Curry quality to Russell Wilson. My entire life until six years ago, maybe seven, three-pointers were bad shots. now they're the preferred shot. Steph Curry changed everything. He didn't have to be vertical. You didn't have to be a great athlete. Could you hit threes? Coaches now demand.

I mean, that's what I've said. Westbrook does everything but hit threes. Curry dribbles threes, best ever, has some other shortcomings. So there are players that I think that deserve credit for current success. And I think Steph Curry has had more impact on basketball

than LeBron James. I think he's had more impact on the way high school college and pro basketball has changed. I think Steph Curry changed it forever. And I really honestly believe Russell Wilson opened the door. Height is a non-factor thanks to Russell Wilson. And running around is now sustainable. Just learn to slide if you play like Russell Wilson.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action. with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience

in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit, of the thing. We get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're

afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search,

Learn the hard way and listen now. What's up guys? This is Clever-Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, the Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up.

up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your

podcast. What's up, fam? This Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without looking. Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game.

His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall.

And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stopped by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball.

So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Peter King, NBC Sports, three-time national sports writer of the year. we don't get you in town off. And so I would imagine, so the Rams are out of town, but you're watching the Vikings at the Chargers. Is that your assignment? No. I'm actually in town to do the NFL's all-time 100 players, you know, elected to this team.

Yeah. And they do six shows on NFL Network over a six-week period. And every week they have a couple of members of the selection committee in. So I'm going to do this show tonight with our. Shell on NFL network. So they had me come in. First great player I ever saw as a kid was Walter Payton. He had one good offensive lineman, Noah Jackson, and yet was unstoppable. I always remember him peeling players off him.

He hated being on the ground. It was almost like he was claustrophobic. He did not like people on him. Who was the first player covering the NFL? You're like, almost like Lamar. Oh, he's better than everybody. Well, I covered the New York Giants my second year. in their prime in the Parcells Lawrence Taylor, Phil Sims Prime.

And that was my second year covering the NFL. So it was, you know, you're whatever, 27 years old. And every day you've got to monitor Lawrence Taylor's whereabouts and what he's doing and all this. So I did that. And that I just thought was a great training for anything else I could do in life because Lawrence Taylor was crazy. Yeah, Belichick holds him in a reverence.

That is, I mean, he just holds him. You know what was great about Bill Belichick in that time because he was the defensive coordinator of the Patriots? Everybody looks at him now. He's sullen. He's dower, which he is. But in those days, he was just an assistant coach. Nobody had any idea he'd be Bill Belichick.

And he'd be walking through the locker room, and he'd stop him and talk to him for 10 minutes, about the game plan that week or about life or whatever. He was very, not not effervescently friendly, but talk to you about anything for any length of time. He was a cool guy. Tom Curran says, an excellent writer in Boston says that Belichick is furious at the Kraft Entertainment Company. What's your takeaway? My thing is, I don't think it's sinister, but they've lost the benefit of the doubt.

They have, but as one high-ranking person in the league said, You know, this is a little bit different than the turn of the century in 2002 and three and four. And whenever the Patriots might have been spying on the other sideline, it's different now because the defensive guys, the defensive coordinator can talk to the guy in his helmet. There's not all these signals being done anymore. No, that's a very good point. Yeah.

Is that basically you just talk, all you have to do is cover your mouth is all you're doing. And Colin, I asked two people this week who were at the NFL meetings in Dallas. I said, what was the talk about? And both of them basically, even though one by text, they kind of shrugged their shoulders in effect and just said, we don't think it's that big a deal. If it wasn't the Patriots, nobody would care. I don't, my gut feeling is I don't think it's going to turn out to be a big deal. But, hey, let's see where this takes us.

Okay, so Lamar Jackson, you're not a big draft guy, if I recall. I love the draft. I'm a Saturday guy and a Sunday guy. The draft's one of my favorite things of the year. Like everybody else, I take big swings and miss a lot and get some right. Do you remember what you thought about Lamar? What you were hearing about Lamar going into the draft or what you thought? I thought the Bengals were going to take him at 21.

He had spent some time in Cincinnati. That's right. And then they end up taking Billy Price. and I said, what a bunch of knuckleheads they are. What are you taking a guard when you desperately need a bit of juice for your organization going into this thing? And look, nobody, I think what the Ravens did, Colin, was so incredibly smart. Because what they did is they do a great job of doing a little bit private investigating work, private investigatory work around the time of the draft to see who likes who, who in the bottom 10 of the first round was going to take a quarterback.

Now, remember, Colin, they trade down to number 25 and they take Hayden Hurst, the tight end from South Carolina. Before Lamar. Who now is starting to emerge. So, and then they had a deal with Howie Roseman of the Eagles to trade up to number 32, but they continued to work the phones to make sure that nobody was going to trump him on Lamar Jackson. They knew when they got into the 20s that they wanted Lamar Jackson and they were going to take them, but they also really wanted a tight end.

They ended up taking two tight ends that year. So they did that. And then they were, look, Eric DeCosta, the current GM has told me they were very confident that in the last five or six picks of that round, nobody was going to take them and they were okay with trading with Philadelphia at number 32 and the rest is history. I said that the quarterback change now reminds me of the iPhone. One day nobody had. them a year later everybody had them is that three years ago Jared Goff was what you drafted he is tall and he's a pocket guy and he throws a beautiful flag pattern now you'd be like if he came out

he just he doesn't get out of the pocket and size no longer matters your college system no longer well that's a little bit like Joe Burrow now isn't it it's why people people well people are excited about Tua because he runs around and he's very athletic but hey Tua has been hurt a lot. Joe Burrow hasn't been hurt now. He's not played as much as two either. But I mean, I still think, Colin, I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all quarterback in the NFL. I don't think it's Lamar Jackson and I don't think it's Sam Darnold. Okay. I think every offense can be successful based on what you want to do in the kind of quarterback you have. And look, who's to say how long Lamar Jackson will be able to play every week? He,

took a heck of a hit last night when he broke his record when he broke the record. I know. And I'm not, hey, look, I think Lamar Jackson is as exciting, you know, in December of 2019 as Patrick Mahomes was in December of 2018. But again, I think that I think he's got to prove that he can stay on the field long term also. But that was a great performance last night. You know what I really love about Lamar Jackson a lot?

he is he understands like a 10-year veteran what's the first thing he says to Aaron Andrews last night after the game hey you know I forget her question but something like hey you rush for more yards now than than any quarterback of all time in any season and he's got Mark ingram with him and he basically says hey I want to get Mark ingram his thousand yards now you know he the guy I've been in that locker room Colin now twice this year and I've just watched it those guys the he'll go up to Marshall Yonda and he'll say, hey, gold jacket, you know, like for Hall of Fame. You know, he'll, and so the guys in that locker room love him because it's never about Lamar Jackson.

It's about us. It's about the 53. Yeah, that is, and I know people think I've been very hard on Baker Mayfield, but I said this before. I support Dak, not because I love his arm. I like him. Right. I'm a big believer that 30% of the contract is intangibles. I don't like bakers. I said this. The police video, he was innocent.

So his instincts, as an innocent man, were to run from cops. That worries me. The grabbing the stuff. Now, I've been very harsh on him. I think he'll be better than this year when they get the coaching right. But I do wonder, because Lamar makes me really think about this. So you're going to see Lamar twice. Lamar is so coachable.

When people said he's too skinny, he came out and said, I went and worked on it because I listened to you guys. So I put on weight. When people said, you don't throw a pretty ball. He goes, I didn't. I went and worked on it. Baker gets very defensive. He gets very abrupt.

This week he called it with medical staff. Do you believe, because my dad told me this years ago, most employment decisions will be made, Colin, when you're not in the room. Okay. That medical staff comment, the OBJ mess, do you think there's people in Cleveland now, even a handful that think we reached on Baker? he's request well the only guy who matters is john dorsey right now because i think dorsey is going to be the primary decision maker in whether or not freddy kitchens comes back and he'll also if

they do make a change you know who that will be so i think he's the one who really matters i have been told that his faith in baker mayfield is not wavered what about obj trading him well i mean look i i i don't know what's going to happen there but But you also have to ask yourself, who's giving a ransom for O'Dell Beckham Jr. Right now? When's the last time he was consistently played great? And you can say, well, the Giants were a mess and he didn't have the quarterback. And it's been a mess this year in Cleveland.

But whatever. I mean, he's been a divisive factor for a good chunk of his career. So we'll see what happens. but I think that John Dorsey would like to salvage the O'Dell Beckham Jr. relationship. Peter, this is interesting. Yeah. So John got fired. These GM jobs, you get about two chances.

Yes, you do. And then you don't get a third. So he would have to acknowledge. Okay, I whiffed on Freddie. I whipped on the OBJ trade. So Baker's probably safe because if you got to admit those two. But I don't think he would admit in any way that he whiffed on Baker. I think this is just a growing year.

And again, I'm not really defending Baker because I think he does some immature things. Right. But I still think, like, I would like to see, if they do make a coaching change, I want to see a guy who's a rock solid. I don't know whether you'd say Mike McCarthy. That feels right. I want to see a guy who has worked with and coached great quarterbacks. Like, I would really kind of like to see Mike McCarthy with Baker.

Mayfield. So would I. I think it would be interesting. But again, I do think Freddie Kitchens has a chance in the last three weeks to salvage it. Hey, Colin, here's a question for you. Next week, what if they have a great game plan and they beat the Baltimore Ravens next week? What if they do that? And what if they sweep their last three and play well and are more disciplined than they have been? I mean, then you got to say, okay, we had a rough patch with Freddie Kitchens, but now the air is pointing upward. He beat Baltimore twice. So who knows?

I don't know. That's why somebody said to me today, he said, so, does Lamar Jackson have your MVP vote? I'm one of the voters for MVP. And I said, well, if I had to vote today, of course he does. But I said, the season's 17 weeks long. We are one game into week 15. Can we play 17 games? Then we'll decide.

Yeah. Russell Wilson, by the way, is not that far off. Well, and what happens in the last three weeks if Russell Wilson throws 11 touchdowns, no interceptions, and they beat the 49ers by 14 in an NFC West championship game in week 17? What happens then? Then we got a decision to make. You're a reporter. I talk and have opinions, and I have sources, the phone, as we joke on this show, we call it small J journalism. You do more Big J.

You're in the locker rooms. So living in Los Angeles, Peter King is joining us if you're listening on radio. The Todd Gurley situation has been very interesting. It's walking on eggshells. It's deflecting because they paid him a year early, didn't have to. And in the NFL, it's hard for a running back to get a second contract, never early. So they pay him early and we find out there's an arthritic knee issue. And so he stops carrying it.

And in the last couple weeks, it's like he's emerged again. for a lot of reasons, I think it's a very sensitive topic within the Rams, Todd Gurley. But McVeigh's a sharp cat. They've sort of turned it around. They had a little offensive line crisis. They've bondoed, bandaged that thing up. When you look at the Rams, they've given up first round picks. They're playing well now.

Do you think they, what do you think behind the scenes? They truly feel of golf and truly feel of Gurley. Do they regret the contracts? Well, I do think that it would be natural to second guess the contracts. But I also think the last two weeks have shown them and have proven to them that they made the right decision. Because when all is well, they're still, I mean, that game last week, you remember the Thursday night game against the Vikings last year. Oh, yeah. I thought that was their best game of last season because golf threw downfield beautifully in that game. And that in Sean McVe's offense, he wants a guy who is not just going to go here, here, and here,

but who is going to throw it 55 yards occasionally too. And I thought against Seattle that was as close to that game as they've played in a year and a half. And remember this, Peter. Atlanta was four and four, got hot made the playoffs. Dallas three and five. The one difference now, the one difference now is that basically one of the first two seeds is gone in your division and the fifth seed probably is gone also in your division. So you've got to beat the Minnesota Vikings.

So you have to ask yourself, if you look at both their schedules, the Rams, they've got to go 3 and O, okay, to have a good chance to make it. So is at the Chargers this weekend. They're not as good on grass. Yes. That Vikings are, and then, and they play the Packers next week. So what I'm saying is you have to ask yourself if the Rams can catch and pass the Vikings in the last three weeks.

They can. Do I think they will? No, I don't. Let's talk about the Dallas Cowboys. Peter King is joining us. Listen, they get a lot of free publicity. They don't need more. Because Jerry talks. Every time you turn around, Jerry's talking.

Well, and I think this is something we've talked about. And I think I've said that we've done this with our president. We've normalized behavior. What our president currently does is not normal. Jerry talking after games on a Monday morning radio appearance and talking about Belichette. Colin, you speak about not being in the locker room. And I'll tell you something that happens in one locker room out of 32. that after a game, 10, 15 minutes,

where you've got 45 players and everything like that, it's the only locker room in the NFL where there will be 20 people around the owner of the team and he will talk after every game. That's not normal. It's definitely not normal, but he's done it his whole, you know, his, I don't want to say it.

I don't know if he's done it his whole career, but he's done it for every, every game in my memory. You know, he's in the locker room holding court with the writers. And you might argue, you might argue. Well, you know, so if something ugly happened that day, he's deflecting, you know, the responsibility, and all of a sudden the quarterback isn't the goat,

Jerry is there ponderously talking for 15 minutes, and then you turn around, you're done with Jerry, and you look around, half the guys are dressed and gone. So they don't then have to deal with the press. And so I just think, look, my advice to Jerry would be only one thing. Stop talking so much because I do think he creates problems for himself. And I don't think the top head coaches. I think Nick Saban could still coach in the league again.

I don't think he wants that nonsense. No, but I will say this. There are people who will say that Jerry Jones, they never work for Jerry Jones and everything. And I said, I think you're crazy. And here's why. If you talk to Bill Parcells, he has mostly. fond memories of working for Jerry Jones. He does? Yeah. And the other thing I will tell you, Colin, in the Ezekiel Elliott

Dak Prescott draft in 2016, I covered that draft. And I can tell you categorically that Jerry desperately wanted Paxton Lynch in the first round. He wanted them to trade up into the first round to get Paxton Lynch. And when he didn't get him, the next day, he was bitter. he said every time I've made a great business deal. It said most of the time when I made a great business deal, I've overpaid. And we had to overpay if we wanted to get Paxton Lynch. We didn't. I think we made a mistake.

Now, this is Jerry Jones. And what he could have said to his scouting guys, to his son, Stephen, you know, the VP, to Jason Garrett, I'm overruling you. I am making the trade. we are giving, you know, the higher draft choice for Paxton Lynch. But you know what? He didn't do it because he knows that he has empowered his, you know, football scouting people to make those decisions and they're going to make those before.

And he was angry and he said we should have done it. But he could have overruled him. He didn't. And I think that's the one thing people don't realize about Jerry Jones. he listens to those guys. And most of the time he acts on what they tell him to do. So I don't think that he would be a debacle to work for it all. Peter King, three-time national sports writer of the year, NBC Sports.

Let's go back to your Raiders story. You don't like that they're leaving. You talk to Brent Musburger, who is now the voice of the Raiders on radio. Hey, look, I think Vegas will be a really good place for the NFL. This is not anti-Vegas. They've been so fantastic with the Golden Knights. But Brent Musburger, who lives in Vegas, obviously, now. And he told me a couple of very interesting things.

Number one, there's not going to be a tailgating place around the stadium. So one of the things that makes the Raiders so great is that they have a college atmosphere in the parking lot before the game. It is huge. People build their lives around the eight Sundays or 10, whatever, if you go to the preseason games. And that's not going to really exist now. Now it's going to be a lot of hotel shuttles dropping you off at the game. It'll just be weird. And the other thing is there's not going to be a black hole.

And so I still think they're going to, in time, find their niche and all that. But I'll tell you, when I go to a Raiders game the last, I don't know, I've been to three or four of them in the last 10 years, it's, I just, I have such a great time because I want to be somewhere where people are passionate about, their team. And they, this, this, this fan group has been slapped in the face so much, this Raider fan group and, or the Raider fan base. And yet they come out every game. They'll come out against the Jacksonville Jaguars. They're not making the playoffs. The Jaguars aren't. What does the game mean? They don't care. They just want to kill the Jaguars. Yeah.

And it's just, it's a, it's a cool thing to see. Yeah. And Gruden's got a little rebel in him. So Gruden plus the Raiders is, I still contend it's a top six or seven. NFL brand despite being dormant for about 15 years. Peter King is joining us. If you marketed the NFL, there's always a sense to Cowboys and the Super Bowl is the best Super Bowl, all things considered, if I said to you, Peter King, what would be your perfect Super Bowl for you in the league? It would be a Baltimore-San Francisco rematch because I do think that everybody in the NFL

wants new. Okay. And what is so fun about this particular matchup is. that, I mean, Lamar Jackson has got a line of jets who want to meet him and hug him and talk to him and exchange jerseys with him last night. And that's like every team in the league. He is an absolute football magnet right now. Yeah. He is what Patrick Mahomes was a year ago at least and maybe even more.

He might even be more of a magnetic personality. And then on the other side, I think the 49ers are fun. They're new. I think George Kittle could be an absolute sensation. And I think Jimmy Garoppolo, the matinee idol type of guy. And I think there is something about the 49ers. They feel next. And I think America likes next.

So that would be my Super Bowl matchup that I think people would like to see. Tom Brady sold his house. Alex Guerrera put his house up. Tom Brady yesterday or the day before. announced I no longer will be the Boston spokesperson for a very popular charity. We hear about the strained relationship. He wants more money, reportedly, and Belichick, you know how Belichick is. I think Tom wonders sometimes, okay, I keep taking pay cuts.

Where are all my skill guys? You know, if my boss has kept giving me a pay cut and I look around and say, yeah, where is their studio still a dump? And why aren't my coworkers any good? Where's the money going? Any chance, Tom will retire as a non-patriot. a year. Yes.

You think there's a chance. Oh, yeah. I keep hearing that from people I respect. I think he all, I think is, I think this year, what is so interesting for him. And again, I haven't talked to him. I don't know this. I'm trying to read the tea leaves like everybody else. But I think this year something really interesting happened, and that is he arranged

his contract so that he could be a free agent after the year and the Patriots couldn't put the franchise tag on him. So what that means is that he's going to control his fate for the first time ever in the NFL. He's going to control his fate. And so I don't know what it means. It could be that he and Belichick will have a meeting on the first week of March. And Bill will say, I need you for two more years. I want you to come back.

And I don't know what will happen. I do know that even if Tom Brady might have his issues with Bill Belichick, he's not making it up when he says, I have an incredible amount of respect for Belichick. He knows. It's like when the 49ers divorced Joe Montana, I was, you know, that was right about the time. I was really getting into covering and being a national guy. And everybody knew that Joe Montana really disliked at that time Bill Walsh because he felt like he got forced out for Steve Young. But later on, Joe Montana understood, you know, that's business.

I'm still not happy that it happened, but that's business. He didn't hate Bill Walsh, you know, unfortunately when Bill died. Bradshaw and Noel were not always buddies. Well, Bradshaw and Null is a little bit different. Bradshaw, I think, still has something against Null to this. day. But I do think, I do think that, you know, after the passage of time, whatever happens after this year, Belichick and Brady will be joined in history and it will not be ugly or, you know, it won't be an arranged marriage. Yeah. What a pleasure to have you today. Now, now,

this is Los Angeles. It's a very big city. There's a lot of choices. We're going to go for lunch here. We've got 30 seconds. Anywhere spectacular? I have no idea. You could go to the Ivy and Beverly Hills. There's famous. You could see a Kardashian there. What if I just want to go have a plate of pasta and work for a little while? Can I do that? Is that available in Los Angeles? I believe that. Can I have a glass of Keanti at like 1215?

Oh, that's fully available. Okay, good, good. We drink early on. I love that. Thank you so much. Hey, thank you, Colin. Thank you, Joy. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

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