The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Best of The Herd for Apr 09, 2020

Episode Date: April 9, 2020

Colin disputes the notion that you can't draft Tua because of injuriesLeBron's legacy with the younger audience will be hurt by MJ documentaryLeBron's window to win a title might close if NBA season is cancelled Guest: Mike Krzyzewski, Duke Head Coach Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played. with and just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to listen to learn the hard way on the iha radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast what's up guys

this is clivert taylor the fourth and on my podcast the clivert show i'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff like being an internet famous referee we're in the middle of a game this linebacker this linebacker walks up to me he goes a ref my mom wants you to wave at her what Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Rhett, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Ms. Parker.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for listening to the best of herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday. From 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1, find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching herd. This is the best of the herd with Colin Cowherd on Fox Sports Radio.

Oh, here we go on a wet, soggy day in Los Angeles. This is the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1, Joy Taylor, never looked better. Joining me on the show this morning, so nice to have Joy, living color now on television. And yeah, I still need a haircut. Let's not get into it.

Joy looks fantastic. And we are ready to roll one hour from now. Coach K. Mike Shishowski. I'm excited to talk to him about a lot of things. Number one, he's coached three Olympic teams. He also, early in his career, coached against Michael Jordan. And Duke wasn't very good back then. They hadn't popped, right?

So we got some Michael Jordan to talk about with him, some LeBron to talk about with him. He is really the one college coach that's been able to bridge the NBA college spectrum and he's done very well with both, respected by both players, coaches at both levels. So Joy, how are you this morning? And a really, really wet day, we're supposed to get great weather in L.A. For the next 10 days after this, but it just, I'll tell you this, the drought's over in California. Officially. I'm doing good, but it's actually a good thing that we have, you know, some rain.

We're supposed to be inside anyway. So no incentive to go anywhere. This is a very big week in California to stay home. So I'm happy for the rain. Okay, here's the story I want to lead my show with today. Tua had him on the show a couple days ago. Alabama quarterback roll tied. I like him.

He's my number one quarterback, although I do think there's an injury concern, but I would draft him still. I've said that. So Mike Lombardi's a buddy of mine. Mike works at the ringer. He used to be at Fox Sports. He used to work for the Patriots. He used to run the Browns. He has two teams telling him something bad about Tua.

Two teams I've talked to have flunked him. They flunked him on not. just the hip on the multitude of injuries. Like the risk far outweighs the reward. All right. Let me address that. I tell my kids this all the time. What teams? Who's levying the criticism against you? If Bob Costas ripped me or Joe Buck, it would hurt. If a blogger does it, I couldn't care. Who are the two teams? A third of this league is poorly run. Who are the teams? What if it was New England that told him, hoping to poison the waters, and he drops in the draft down to New England? Or at least in an area.

where New England could draft him in the 15, 16, 17 spot. What if it's the Jags? They've got nine. You know, if the chargers, if the chargers are on the fence and we tell everybody we flunked and it gets out there, maybe they pay, and we get him at nine. A lot of people want Tua, but they're in the 20s and they can't get him. But if he drops to 12 and 13, New England gives you four picks, goes up and gets him. I don't know who it is.

I trust Mike. I like Mike. I am not in any way indicting Mike. I'm saying, I don't know who the teams are. 30% of the teams in this league don't know what they're doing. Their coaches don't know what they're doing. Their GMs are not very good. They whiff on scouting assignments.

How do I know their team doctors are any good? I would guess the Patriots team doctors and the Ravens team doctors are probably better than the bottom third of the league in Detroit through the year. Cincinnati, wouldn't you? Aren't there more great hospitals and medical professionals in New York, California, Massachusetts? Cleveland's got the Cleveland Clinic. I bet you the Browns have great medical people. It's a hotbed for great medical personnel in the country. So, I mean, who's saying this?

That's the first point. I have no idea. Secondly, to him is four games in two years in the SEC. Easily the most physical football conference in college football. Let's be honest. Big 12, Pac-12, those are pillow fights. ACC outside of Clemson pillow fights. He missed four games.

in two years. And oh, by the way, is that injury prone? Because two teams are saying injury prone. Is that injury prone? Because I know he plays well when he's hurt. I saw him throw for 418 yards and four touchdowns against LSU, the best college football team perhaps of all time when he was hurt. We know NFL guys play when they're hurt.

Let me ask you. He's had one major injury and one injury-riddled season from high school to college. One, and in that injury-riddled season, he missed four games out of 13. Is that injury-prone? Aaron Rogers, two collarbone surgeries. Is Aaron Rogers injury-prone? I don't think he is. Big Ben, last decade, he has started a full season three times in 10 years.

Is Big Ben injury prone? Didn't they just sign him to an extension? And he's old, two is not. What about Deshaun Watson? Do you know why DeAndre Hopkins is no longer in Houston? Because they're clearing cap space because they're going to pay Deshaun Watson $250 million. He tore his knee up in college. He's torn it up in the NFL.

He couldn't play last year, couldn't take a plane for a game because his kidney was all messed up. Is he injury prone? Doesn't seem to deter the Houston Texans. They're going to pay him $250 million. By the way, Carson Wentz has missed eight games in four years. He's missed entire playoff runs. They signed him to a long-term deal. My point is everybody's hurt in this league playing quarterback outside of Russell Wilson and Tom Brady.

Let me ask you this. Patrick Mahomes, he's the greatest player in the league, right? Okay, stay with me. If you think two is injury prone, stay with me on this. In college, Patrick Mahomes had wrist surgery. Bet you didn't know that. He got knocked out of a game. Concussion.

Two and never did. Oh, he played eight games. one year because of an AC joint issue in 2016. Two never had that. In college, I can make the argument. Knocked out of a game, K-O, wrist surgery, AC joint issue. He was more injury prone than two in college. Oh, by the way, Patrick goes to the NFL.

He had an ankle injury last year. And then he missed a bunch of games because he had a dislocated kneecap. He missed at least a couple. So I got five injuries with Patrick Mahomes, and he's going to make $350 million. Aaron Rogers, Big Ben, Deshawn Watson, Carson Wentz, Patrick Mahomes. Are they injury prone? Other teams don't think so.

DeShon's going to get paid. Patrick's going to get paid. Carson Wentz did get paid. Big Ben got paid again, and Aaron just got paid a year ago. And they've all got injuries. Number three, thanks to a new collective bargaining agreement, So what if you draft them in the only last four years? Arizona drafted a quarterback.

They bailed on it. Twelve months later, they drafted another quarterback, and we're all sitting here today going, I kind of like the direction they're going. Let's say you draft Tua. He lasts four years in Miami. That's where you draft him, Miami. Four years as Brian Flores builds that defense up in the O lineup,

four years. And he averages 13 games a year. He misses three games. But he's good enough, I think he is, to win nine of the 13 games. He's not worth it? You don't give him a second contract. He's not worth that rookie contract in the rebuild? The merchandise he sells, the games he wins, the energy he provides, the value to the organization.

This is not 15 years ago when you give Jamarcus Russell a contract, and if he whiffs, you're done. So I got A, who says they flunked him? I was in the Chargers War Room two years ago. They took a player off their board because of injuries. He got drafted by a team that had recently won a Super Bowl. Translation, what's your board say? Even Chargers are well-run. You know, the team that had it well-run.

Disagreement. Opinions, disagreements. A lot of people didn't think Lamar's going to work. Lamar works. Disagreements. The second part is, what the hell is injury prone mean? Is Patrick Mahomes injury prone? Is Aaron Rogers? Is Big Ben?

Is Carson Wentz? Is John Wine? And the third thing is, even if he is, I'd still do it. The kid is Drew Brees accurate, unbelievable leader, the best most accurate thrower of the football, intangible, sees the field, and it's not punitive if he's hurt after four years. It's not. Listen, you'll watch him in camp. If by the end of year two, you're like, I don't know how long he's going to last, but we love him.

Drafts another quarterback. And he doesn't even have to play this year, Ryan Fitzpatrick. So sit around, make sure he's healthy, watch it, watch, watch. And if you know in that year, I don't know. They have 13 draft picks. 13. Solve the rest of the issues for the team. Continue the culture.

They're going to win games. They won five of their last nine. But I don't buy this with Tua. I don't know who said it. I see injured quarterback's winning. Super Bowl's all over this league, and it's not punitive if you draft him and he does get hurt. I just think he's too good to say no to. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports

Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so rapidly. up in the chase, that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing, and we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about. How healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now.

What's up, guys? This is Cliver Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior,

and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming.

The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and social. connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually need people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I've heard Rick Buecker, for one, has said he doesn't, he's not sure LeBron wants to come back. This is not a good setup for him.

Older body. He's got no chance to get through the clippers. I disagree. I think he really wants to get through it. LeBron's playing a different game than everybody else. Okay, everybody else is competing against themselves. LeBron's competing against Michael Jordan. LeBron's standards are much higher than everybody else in the league.

Nobody else in this league is in the... Could he be the best player of all time? Nobody else is close. I mean, Anthony Davis, how many playoff series does he have in seven years that he's won? One? And he's the second best player maybe in the NBA. Third, maybe behind Kauai. Janice has two playoff series wins.

It's LeBron here, Kauai next, and then it's just the Grand Canyon between even the next best players. Well, LeBron's going to be sitting home here in his 17th year. And guess what's starting in about a week? Michael Jordan, 10-part documentary. 20-year-olds never saw Michael play live. Either did 30-year-olds. I did. I did.

And that's why I say Michael's the best player ever. But a lot of 20-year-olds have lived in the tunnel of LeBron only, and they're LeBron fans. And don't, don't kid yourself. Players like Michael, the late Kobe Bryant, and LeBron, are absurdly competitive. Michael was petty during his Hall of Fame speech. Kobe wouldn't leave the gym if he lost a game of horse.

He would play you until he beat you. And we know LeBron watches social media. He reacts very quickly. He likes his attention. And I like LeBron. LeBron's going to be sitting at home, 17th year. Best player he's ever had on a team in his peak, AD. Roster is old.

It's not getting better. It's a weak draft, crappy free agency class, and the cap's coming down. They can't afford anybody else and don't have anybody on that roster, not name LeBron or AD that anybody else wants. I like Coosma, he's not special. This is the year. This is the year. But it's also in terms of branding. The 20-year-olds are going to watch this 10-part series.

And those are LeBron guys. And guess what? Every talk show host, Joy, me, the Stephen A's, the Skips, the Shannon's, the Whitlocks, the Nick Wrights, The Gottlieb's all going to be like, man, I forgot he's the greatest ever. And LeBron will be sitting home and watching that as a hyper-competitive athlete. Don't kid yourself. LeBron wants to come back badly. It's one thing to have the MJ documentary on and you're playing and dropping 32 a night.

It's another to be watching it. And then you turn on the sports networks, which you watch all the time. We all know that. And they're all like, you know, that debate was stupid. MJ is clearly so much better. Even Nick Wright talked about this the other day on our show. We didn't get to see LeBron in the playoffs last year. If they don't have a playoff this year, we won't get to see it.

And then you're into year 18. And while I've never been in the business of doubting LeBron, then you are one tweaks growing away from what? LeBron not being in the playoffs again. And then, wait, wait, was the last great LeBron playoff moment, with the 51 point game one, and then we never see him in the postseason again. Like, if you miss this postseason, that door starts to open. And I think the NBA is so tied still to LeBron.

It's very important this year gets in in some way, shape, or form. By the way, LeBron said this four years ago, quote, my motivation, my motivation is the ghost I'm chasing. LeBron told Sports Illustrated Lee Jenkins, the ghost played in Chicago. Well, guess what? The ghost is coming back. For 10 parts, as LeBron sits and watches, the shows talk about him and the world talk about him.

These guys are all so competitive. It's why they're great. It's why Kobe was great. It's why M.J. was great. It's why Jeter was great. They are, I mean, they're petty. Tom Brady texting his dad, we got his phone records. Yeah, he's only got how many years.

I got a bunch of years. I've got to be Peyton Maddie. He'll be the greatest of all time. That's who they are. It's great. Don't think LeBron wants to sit and watch on TV the shows and in the MJ series in probably the last great year to win a championship for him. Because 80's not getting younger and healthier. This Laker roster's older, not a lot of tradable parts.

The cap's coming down to crappy draft and a bad free agent class. This is what he's got to win with. This is it. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. LeBron James says he won't have any closure if the NBA season is canceled. I do think the NBA is strong enough and star-driven enough. It can overcome a miss season. I do.

I think baseball is a sport of habit. And if we go 18 months with no baseball, that is irreparable, perhaps for the next half decade. NBA, star-driven, if they missed a season, you got KD next year, you got LeBron, you got Steph coming back, you got Clay coming back, the Brooklyn story, the Warrior story. I think you'll be fine. The Zion story, he's getting better. And you've got some really fun young teams. Denver and Dallas are young. They're excellent.

They're getting better. Milwaukee and the Celtics are young and getting better. So I think the NBA can overcome it. But I do believe for LeBron, and I don't mean to be an alarmist, but I think this year is vital. There's five reasons why I think this is potentially the last year LeBron can win a title. Number one, he ain't getting younger. Number two, Anthony Davis has had lots of injuries. He's fairly brittle.

This is as healthy with this rattle. as he's ever going to be. AD has never at this point in any NBA season been this rested and ready to go. Number three, the Lakers roster is the second oldest in the NBA. Number four, it's a bad draft and a bad free agency class. There's no help on the horizon. And number five, the cap's going down because revenues are going down. So even if you attracted somebody, the Lakers ownership does not want to pay a big burden on the salary cap.

So I think this is the year. Also, I think Golden State's going to be significant. better next year. Steph's back, Clay's back, and a lottery pick. And I think the Clippers, because I think we've all worried about the Clippers chemistry a little bit this year. Well, if they'd have another year to work on the chemistry, I think the Clippers would be a better basketball team next year. So I think this is the year for LeBron. I think he wants to get back. I think he needs to get back. I think the NBA needs to get back. I'm more positive than negative on that. And I'm just a basketball fan. I grew up, I grew up a huge college and

pro basketball fan. Then I covered the UNLV basketball teams with Larry Johnson and Stacey Ogman. You know, my early career was shaped around college basketball. I love it. I still love it. Mark Few's one of my best friends. I love the old stories. And so I'm crossing my fingers on the NBA. One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Cliver Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee.

We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker.

Listen to the Clippers show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know, there's a lot to break down. Gorsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. I like the bougie style of Housewives show.

I think it looks like it's going to be interesting. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real House Wise franchise, the drama, the alliances, and the team everybody's talking about. As an executive producer in reality television, I'm not just watching it. I understand the game.

As somebody who creates shows, I'll even say this. At the end of the day, when people are at home, they want entertainment. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. There's one coach in my lifetime who has been able to cross the bridge, college to pro, back to college. And it's Mike Shishvsky. 40 years at Duke, five national championships, only coach to lead three team U.S.As to three consecutive Olympic gold medals. And he just interviewed Dr. Anthony Fauci, who is a remarkable American.

He's 79 years old. And first of all, verbally, physically, he is so dynamic and robust. And coach, first of all, thanks. You recently interviewed him. How did you find him to be? He was, first of all, thanks for having me on, as always you. I love your perspectives. Don't agree with all of them that I love that you.

A lot of them, though. I won't bring up the ones I don't. But it was such an honor, first of all, having them on my show and spending 30 minutes with him. You know what he is? He's genuine. He's inspiring. And how often on your show have you been able to talk to somebody who, is the very best at what they do. He is the most instinctive and best person in this world,

and especially in our, well, at least in our country that we know, as far as infectious diseases are concerned. And so he's inspiring when he talks. And he was just so darn genuine. And I called him America's, I said, you're America's point guard. He was a point guard in high school. And just so genuine. You have as much as any coach in my life, and I'm a big believer in what I'm about to say. People that succeed into their 60s and 70s do so by evolving. Rigidity. Rigidity punctures even the smartest people. And I can name names. I'm not going to. But you have spanned four and five decades because you're a thinking person. You've evolved. And it's funny. When you got into this business, there was a sports.

section. And that was it. Letter to the editor. Now there's talk radio. There's social media. It is punitively punishing. It is harsh. It is unforgiving. I want to ask you, how do you deal with it? What do you tell your players now, as you have spanned so many decades about the criticism from strangers to a, I don't know if I could have handled it, coach at 17 years old. I don't think I could have handled it. How do you discuss that, the psychological factor that has changed in your lifetime coaching? Well, you hit on one thing right away is that in order for a leader to put a message across to the people he has an honor to lead, he or she have to handle it the right way. So I do. You know, I don't, you know, it's a waste of time to get into arguments and not to,

Look, we have a lot of great things said about us, and then we have a lot of questionable things said. And what I tell my players is this is how I handle it. I listen to the people who are knowledgeable, and sometimes they're critical. And you should always have an ear open to listen, you know, because that's how you can become adaptive. For them, I try to tell them, especially like late in the season, we had a great ear, but we had two weeks where we weren't that good. And during that time, I talked to him about, like, look, only listen to one voice. Listen to my voice, and I will tell you the truth.

You know, don't let somebody else tell you who you are. You know, you know who you are, and I'll help you. I know who you are as a player and as a college student. listen to me, listen to our staff. And really, I said going into your, you know, as you become adults, you will want a circle of people around you, not a big circle of people that you will want to listen to, you know, that will tell you the truth. But you don't have, that circle should be a small one.

And so we talk to them about that. And then we have a great social media. We have the best one of college sports. And so we, they're out there too. We like them to be out there, but we like them to be out there under our umbrella. A lot of people may just think you go out and just, okay, I'm going to go get the best players. I don't believe you do that. No, no.

Mark Fuze a friend of mine. It's all about fit. So when I first saw Zion on, you know, Instagram and stuff, I thought he was really raw. I didn't see much beyond dunking. When I fell in love with him, it was his personality. And I have a belief the greatest players, Magic, Kobe, Michael, and I think Zion can be this. It's not just their game.

It's their mind. They have to be strong, diligent, focused. When was the first time you met with Zion, who I just love the kid? When was the first time you noticed? It was personality beyond performance. Yeah, right away when we visited with him at home and at his school, when we were recruiting him, you could tell one he he you know a big thing not that he doesn't love his stepfather he really loves his mother that's a key thing you know like that you have the ability to love somebody who you respect who has brought you up

who has taught you and he had this engaging personality he's really smart you know all the guys that you mentioned you're talking about people who are not you're not you're not you're not you're is smart off the court in preparation and whatever. They are smart in the moment that action is happening. I've talked, I had an interview about a month now, three weeks ago where I talked about Kobe and LeBron, you know, coaching them on the Olympic teams. And they were, they're brilliant at the moment it's happening. And that's unusual, you know, like I can be, I can be smart at a time.

out and whatever. But when you have somebody who is playing the game and is not just smart about his or her play but the play of a unit, boy, you have something, that's the treasure and all those guys had it.

And Diane has it. The other thing, one other thing, I don't know if I'm not talking too long. We got nothing but time. The other thing, Colin, is that great players want to be coached. Like you just mentioned about who they listen to, they listen to their coach.

They want to be coached. They want to be coached hard. They want to be told the truth. Now, they don't necessarily want to have that put out to the world. I think they're private in how you do it. But they want it. My best players at Duke have wanted it. And then for the 11 years, I coached the U.S. team.

those guys wanted it. And not that I did a great job of coaching, but I developed really good relationships with them. And those are unique. That's the talent. Yes. When people start comparing people, like who is the greatest and all that,

a lot of times they don't get into the area that we're talking about. The influence of being able to make your teammates better at the moment it is happening, it's huge. It's just huge. And all the guys you mentioned have it. I think Zion has it still. Yeah. You know, you coach not only, and you're really the only coach that has done this.

I think Beheim deserves credit too. And you guys are, you know, very different people, and I love you both. But you've bridged that gap between college and pro. And you also, by the way, were an assistant on the 92 Dream Team. So you saw four different Dream Team. Some are probably better. defensively, some are more dynamic offensively. I want to go back to Michael Jordan,

who's going to have a 10-part documentary on my former employer, ESPN. Do you remember, because I'm sure you recruited him, do you remember the first time you saw Michael Jordan play in high school? You know, we didn't recruit him. He wasn't a highly, he wasn't, you know, Buzz Peterson was the player, the state player of the year that year in North Carolina. And the two of them have become great, great friends. and Buzz is terrific.

But we never recruited him because he had all, you know, he committed to North Carolina. I got a chance to see him where he was beating our butt. Right. Because you were early, Michael, with you, you had not developed the juggernaut yet at Duke. Right. So as you were building that, Mike, here was this young, wiry, relentless player. Did you immediately know once you saw it Carolina? Oh, boy, this is different.

Yeah. You know, in the 40 years I've added Yonder to coach at Duke and in the ACC, to me, the two players, the two opponents that I think were the most talented were Michael and Lynn Bias. And they were, they had the it. Yeah, whatever that means, they had it. And it's tragic that we never got to see Lynn show that with that. the Boston Celtics. But we did obviously get a chance to see it with Michael. You also had one of the great players. I covered him because I covered UNLV for years. Christian Leitner is such a iconoclastic. I mean, when we think of great players,

he was this tall, unique personality, polarizing in college. I can remember him playing Shaq and getting the best of him. He's interesting. So I guess... Was he coachable to? No, he's the best. He was the biggest believer. He would take a bullet for me. He is also one of those guys that could do it at the moment it was happening and make his teammates better. He was like a point center.

And, you know, Colin, in the history of college basketball, he has to go down as one of the top five players ever. Yes, best I've ever seen, because I didn't see Walton and I didn't see. I didn't see Kareem or Walton. You know, if you in college were for four years and were able to go to the NCAA tournament each year, you could play a maximum of 24 games. You have to win six to win the tournament. Christian's record in the NCAA tournament was 21 and 2. 21 and 2.

You know, like he was, he was an alien, really. He didn't translate as much into the pro game. He was a good pro player. But college-wise, I've not coached a bigger winner than Christian Leight. Now, he's the best player to ever play at Duke. Coach Kay, for the record, you didn't know. recruit Michael. I imagine you didn't recruit LeBron because he was going to the pros. Do you remember, though, the first practice you ever had with LeBron with a dream team?

Do you remember that practice? Well, we had it actually, you know, the one time when we took over, we lost in 2006 in the World Championship. So I got a chance to see him when he was 18 or 19. And, you know, as a player, he did not know yet that he was as smart or that he had the leadership voice that he has displayed as he's matured. What I did notice, this is an interesting thing, is I did notice how smart he was. These guys would play cards all the time and one of the times in Japan, and not for, you know, They're just playing.

And I watched them play, I'm trying to get to know them. And I don't know what game they were playing, but there are a lot of them at the table. And LeBron orchestrated the table. He knew what everybody had. He knew whatever. And I said, this kid is really smart.

I mean, he and he's got a personality. And as we, then when he joined, again, in 2007 to qualify for the 2008. eight Olympics and Kobe then joined the team. I had really the two smart, two of the smartest players to ever play any sport. And they, they meshed that, thank goodness, God bless both of them. They made each other better. You know, I had a former accountant who used to say this. He said, he had a lot of successful clients and he said, they never talk about failure. That's baked into success. You fail because you take chances aggressively. They do talk occasionally about regret.

And I look at you and I think to myself, oh, you could have had a Laker job. The late Kobe Bryant was somebody that, you know, I think probably tried to recruit you once or twice to the NBA. Have you ever at a night that you thought, you're watching the NBA and you're thinking, maybe I should have given it a run? you know i haven't and i think coached in 11 years the u.s team i probably would have had it in this time and if i was a college coach with the success i had when i was in my late 40s and early 50s now i think i'd probably end up being an NBA coach if colleges become um crazy it's uh it's it's crazy and you know you're

You can't develop the relationships that you used to. But here's crazy my luck, which has always been very good. The two times that I seriously thought about the NBA was in 1990, Dave Gabbitt just took over the Celtics, and he's one of the visionaries, one of the great, great men, and a good friend. He offered me the Celtics job. and I went up, I actually met with Red Arbach and Dave, and I turned it down. In the next two years, we won our first two national championships. Wow.

The Laker thing in 205, I was close to doing it, and I turned it down, and a few months later, Jerry Colangelo offered me the chance to be the U.S. coach. So I think I might have regret it because those were the two iconic, franchises. Those were the two franchises as I grew up as a player and a young coach. I said, holy macro, the Celtics, the Lakers. Are you kidding me? But because those things happened and I got a chance to coach these great players on the U.S. team, I've not looked back. And I've loved coaching a Duke. You know, I, damn, I, you know, it's been a good gig for me. Oh, no. It's, you know, I used to, as I covered.

Tark, and I love Tark. I did too. You know, one of the things I always remember, and I don't know if I've told you this. So Tark was a contradiction sometimes. There were sometimes he was so darn honest that he was also kind of a fun BSer. But the thing I loved about Tark, you came and said one time, I covered you to Final Four in Denver. And you came in and said, the thing that impresses me about you and LV in Tark, He go, you said, I have never seen in my career a team play this hard.

Right. You don't, I don't know if you know this. Yeah. Jerry Tarkhanian. Yes. Because it's true. Jerry Tarkhanian, I've never seen him happier. I've never seen him smile more.

It literally, that was the kindest thing. You know how coaches can be sort of tough on each other and they don't want to compliment and recruiting. I go back and I remember thinking how big it was of you to say that. Did he ever share to you how much that meant to him? Yeah, you know, we actually became good friends. And Danny, you know, he wrote a book, you know, Rebel with a Cause and asked me to do the forward. And I said, it'd be an honor.

So I did the forward to that book. And people do not understand just how good a coach that guy was. He, you know, he had immense talent, okay? And it's not easy to get that level of talent to play that hard and unselfishly. And at times you can get them to play unselfishly offensively. They played unselfishly defensively. Yes. And that's what made them great.

And we had a hell of a team in 92. We had this new guy named Grand Hill. Yes, I remember. They weren't as the talent difference was not. I mean, we were pretty talented, too. So that wasn't as big an upset as people would say. No. But what great basketball, huh, during that time?

Oh, it was, it's incredible. And I wrote about that in my first book is that people just don't understand that Grant Hill was new. And you got better as the season. I think Grant was a freshman. So you got better with. Grant Hill, who at the time, I mean, if people would forget this, at the time, Grant Hill was considered the next great American basketball prodigy. Yeah, and he would have been.

And, you know, in his first five years on the pros, he put up numbers in the top five to 10 in the history of the NBA. Yep. And then he got injured. And, but he was that good. And he was our answer at least to not negating Stacey Augman, but not letting him be Stacey Augman, you know, and we never had that the year before. We were just steamrolled.

They were so damn good. Yeah. By the way, do you get frustrated at all? Final question, Mike Shoshchevsky. I've always considered you not only a basketball coach, but a mentor and a voice of your sport and the face of your sport. There's a certain burden of responsibility with that. You perhaps don't see it as a burden, but it's a big mantle to carry.

some college coaches have come out on this virus and I just roll my eyes at it. I think Brian Kelly's been very, very smart. Are you ever get disappointed sometimes with the parochialism of some college coaches and the messages they send? And I think you do the same in your profession. You know, what it is, you know, we don't have one of the failures during my time as a coach. and it won't be corrected before I retire, is that we do not have a leader for college basketball. Right.

You know, like it's not run, it's run by committee. And if our coaches association and there was a commissioner for college basketball and an office and everything like that, because it's a billion-dollar business, I think we would come out more with one voice, and as a result, sometimes people make comments like it's like right after a game and for social issues and things like that. And then they didn't really mean all that they said.

And I think we would be, yeah, it is disappointing that we don't come out with a more unified voice. And what is, as a college coach, We represent the college player, not the college coach. And we should be the voice of the college player in the environment that that college player is in now, not 10 years ago or 20. And we should help streamline the changes that are needed to help the college player. And we don't do that. there's no way we do that. And that's a failing.

That's why we're in the dark ages in some of these things. And I'm saying that the NCAA came out with a great decision to hold all the sports and all that. But really how we run this thing is not, it's not good. And it's not good. Now, how we're doing the virus, look, listen to Dr. Right, right. Listen to the scientists. Yeah.

You know, and it's a, to me, it's an amazing thing that all these press conferences that are run, that's, those are the only people I want to hear from. Yeah. He's our North Star. He is. And let's just, let's do the right thing, man. You know, this has never been done before. You know, they're learning too.

And they're going up and saying, this is what we're learning. don't do this, this other stuff. Okay, and then give us a chance to learn. And by the way, you know, as this keeps going, let's test so we can learn some more. So when it'll probably come back at some time in some form, then we can kick the hell out of it. Right. We can beat it before jump ball. Right now, we can't beat it like that.

And that's why these health care provide, you know, in about 45 minutes, I'm going to have the honor to speak to our North Carolina Nurses Association. And are you kidding me? These are heroes. Oh, it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. I was in the military. I went to West Pines, never in combat. These people, even people in combat in the military, they go and they're in the front lines.

God bless them for doing that. then they come back to base camp and they get rejuvenated, not completely rejuvenated, but then they go out again. And the health care providers, they're on the front lines and they can't go home. There's fear all the time that they're going to infect their own families. This has never been done before. It's never happened. These people are amazing, just amazing.

And whatever we can do to help them. and then let's not let this happen again. Right. Yeah. Let's not let this, let's be prepared and not let this happen again. Anyway, I'm, you know, I get so emotional talking about it and talking about it with these people because I feel, right, I heard our attorney general say something this morning about. You know, maybe we can get back so people won't have to be home and hiding under their bed. Hey, listen, man, we're not hiding under our beds.

We're doing what the hell we're supposed to be doing. Right. Don't, you know, what are we talking about when people say stuff? Colin, really, if I'm, slap me in the face, if that's wrong. But we shouldn't say stuff like that. Well, I mean, social distancing works. The states that have been. Yes.

It's Washington State, Oregon, California. I live in a state. It's very smart and very progressive. We jumped on it early. have not had the hospital surge. Yeah, I don't know your governor, but when he talks, great. Like, he's great.

Yes. Like, he had the courage to do this, you know, forget about party lines. Anyway, I'm talking too much. You know what? You know what? We hadn't talked in a long time, and you know my regard for you. And I appreciate you and having the passion. and I think you speak well for your industry,

and I just love you, and I want to thank you for coming on. Yeah, thanks, Con. It's always a pleasure and an honor. Keep doing what you're doing now. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

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