The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Best of The Herd for Apr 10, 2020

Episode Date: April 10, 2020

Colin appreciates people like Tua who find solutions, not people who find problemsThe Rams/Texans trade shows how dysfunctional both teams areMost of the "risky" QBs in recent drafts have been the most successfulGuests: Joel Klatt, FOX Sports Lead College Football AnalystT.J. Houshmandzadeh, FOX Sports NFL Analyst Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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this is clivert taylor the fourth and on my podcast the clivert show i'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff like being an internet famous referee we're in the middle of a game this linebacker this linebacker walks up to me he goes a ref my mom wants you to wave at her what Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Rhett, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker.

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This is the best of the herd with Colin Cowherd on Fox Sports Radio. Ah, here we go on a Friday in which we're absolutely jammed. Live in L.A., wet, soggy L.A. again. This is The Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, we're on IHeartRadio, Fox Sports Radio, FSWEN, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, you name, we're there. Joy Taylor is joining me. We have Tony Bisselli, the former all-pro offensive linemen for the Jacksonville Jaguars is going to talk about this is a great draft for tackles. It's the best

tackle draft in a long time. And Tony Besselli is one of the, probably the first or second best offensive linemen in USC history, Anthony Munoz and Tony Bicelli and a great guy I'll be joining us. And Joy Taylor, how are you? I'm good. The rain is a little gloomy, but it's a good excuse to stay in the house? Yeah, we're going to get better weather here and throughout part of the country. We're going to get some better weather coming up. And again, more encouraging news on the coronavirus and the hospitalization and ICU rates going down and down and down. We are there or closer to the peak than we've been before. So I am not a big fan of blamers and finger-pointers. I'm a solution guy. I don't follow people on Twitter who are blamers during this virus.

Blame, blame, blame, blame, blame. I follow people who have solutions. I think there's enough negativity. I don't want to follow dark, angry people who are looking to blame. If I hear Trump in the first two sentences, I'm out. Not my favorite president, but I'm out. Find a solution. So all I've been hearing about this NFL draft is blame, finger pointing,

whining, you can't have a draft, we don't have a pro day. Oh, we found a solution. Trent Dilfer and Tua and their agents set it up. Private workout, filmed it, sending a tape to all 32 teams, 55 scripted throws, another 20 throws in a dynamic drill, fewer than 10 people present, we found a solution. college, I couldn't be there. Stop. If you don't have enough information now with Tua,

imagine drafting a Pact 12 or a big 12 quarterback when they play in a conference where there's no defense and very few NFL defensive players. I have two years of tape on Tua. Three, if you count the game against Georgia as freshman year. Against the best college football defenses, NFL people all over the Georgia defense, the Auburn defense. The Clemson defense in the ACC, the LSU defense, all sorts of NFL guys, all over the SEC, and I saw him play for two years and carve him up.

I saw him carve up LSU on one leg, 418 yards, 4 TDs. You draft a lot of these college quarterbacks. Carson Wentz, what conference was he in? Patrick Mahomes, how do I know if he's good? Baker Mayfield. It's a pillow fight in the Big 12. I can call Nick Sabin. I've now got a video.

I've got doctors medically clearing him. I've got two years of SEC tape. I've got NFL Combine interviews. And you're still blaming? You're a crappy GM. Name somebody in America during this crisis who is getting everything they want. I've read stories about nurses and doctors during the virus without masks, having to improvise and create masks and outfits. Do they have everything?

I mean, to a lesser degree, Joy and I. are doing a three-hour radio show. There's no games. Okay. Who during this crisis is getting everything they want? You just got a tape on Tua from Trent Dilfer. 32 teams get it. Two years of tape. Call Nick Sabin.

Think about this. Here's what happens in life. What's the old saying? Give somebody an inch. They take a mile, right? Like to give your kid a little freedom and all you know, the next day they're at Coachella in a different state, right? We all worry about parents. To give them an inch, they take a mile.

The first dynasty in the NFL that I ever saw was the Pittsburgh Steelers. It was created Joy's hometown in the mid-70s. None of Terry Bradshaw's games were on television. There were no cell phones. No FaceTime. No internet. Oh, by the way, there was no combine until 1982. So that means there was no combine.

You couldn't see Terry Bradshaw, the conference. Combine. You couldn't see his games. Couldn't call him, right? He was out fishing. And they drafted him. And you're complaining now because you got two years of film on Tua. Nick Sabins coached in the NFL. The SEC's full of NFL guys. And now I got a tape and you're not there and you're complaining. I would like to remind you, blamers. I like solution people. Let me tell you about pro days. Johnny Mansell, 2014 Pro Day. Quote, his stock shot through the roof. Some moved him up to number two. A flawless workout.

He made every throw. Sam Bradford's 2010 Pro Day. Said Gil Brandt, it's the best I've ever seen since Troy Aikman. Jamarcus Russell. Mike Mayock, who knows his football, said, it's the best I've ever seen from any quarterback in league history. You know what, a bad pro day, Joy? Teddy Bridgewater, who just made millions of dollars.

Teddy Bridgewater was terrible in his pro day. So none of us are getting everything we want. This is about finding a solution. It is a semi-solution to a virus that's making us work harder and improvise and figure stuff out. I say it's much easier to draft an SEC quarterback who I've got several years of tape on against NFL level defenses than it is to draft. a big 12 quarterback who is in a pillow fight, who rarely faces an elite pass rush. How about Clemson's players? Clemson is so much better than everybody else in the ACC since Miami and Florida State are down.

How can you judge anybody for Clemson? All their players dominate every Saturday. I mean, last night, I had a 20-minute-to-two-hour virtual happy hour on Zoom with friends. And you know what I thought when I was done with it? I thought it wasn't as noisy as a bar is, wasn't smoky. I was able to go to the bathroom and grab something to eat and not pay for it while I was on it. And I thought, you know what? I kind of like it.

I kind of like it. You go to one of these pro days that everybody's bitching about. You go to one of these things. And then you get influenced by people sitting next to you. And everybody's like, ooh, you ever seen like a runway model show? And you sit there next to a bunch of fashion designers. And you may look at an outfit and go, but if you're sitting next to Calvin Klein and Calvin Klein is like, Bravo! I love it.

It may influence your opinion. If Belichick is next to you and he's like, oh, you may not like somebody and go, oh. This way, you watch the film atua. You get it in your room by yourself. It comes down to you. and let me give you a trick that Belichick used to do when he brought people into the organization. This is an old Belichick trick. I've heard about this twice now inside the Patriots organization.

Belichick would give you a tape of somebody and he wouldn't tell you as a scout who it was. And they would make the tape a little, you know, they'd edit it so it was a little grayer, a little darker. And he'd say, do you like this player? And the player was already in the league. He was already in the NFL and they'd say, what do you think about this guy? And it was old tape. And the point for Belichick was,

I don't want you to be influenced by anybody. I want you to give me what, and it would be like a Pro Bowl left tackle. And if the guy was like, I don't know if I like him. He's like, yeah, he's playing right now in Houston. He's a Pro Bowl left tackle. That's the game Belichick used to play

because he didn't want his scouts to be influenced by media, talk shows, and other scouts. This pro day workout should be the future. Not out having beers, about guys and sitting next to guys and watching body language of other scouts. Here's the tape. Make your call. SEC, two years, call-sabing, face time to a medical clearance.

Watch the pro day on tape. If you can't figure it out, you shouldn't be a scout. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeard Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

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with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough.

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Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue of 42.

Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know, that's a lot. lot to break down. Gorsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a married man. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew.

Pinky has financial issues. I like the boozy style of Housewives show. I think it looks like it's going to be interesting. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real Housewives franchise, the drama, the alliances, and the team everybody's talking about. As an executive producer in reality television, I'm not just watching it. I understand the game.

As somebody who creates shows, I'll even say this. At the end of the day, when people are at home, they want entertainment. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. It is very easy for a guy like me or even joy, right? We can rip somebody after they make him make a mess. mistake. That's easy. But I like for both of us to have opinions before something happens. So in real time, therefore, I'm culpable for my opinion. When the Rams got Brandon Cook, I hated it. I said, I like him. But if Sean Payton and Bill Belichick bail on somebody, that's a sign. It's like Warren

Buffett bailing on a stock. You may be concerned about acquiring the stock. And I also didn't like what they paid him. So full disclosure, I never like Brandon Cook's great kid, wonderful kid. He's got concussion issues. I've been told he's considered retirement. I think he's a little bit of a one-trick pony as a receiver. He's a speed guy. I don't think you have to put your best corner on him to limit him and marginalize his game. I also think the Rams had plenty of good wide receivers. That was not a team weakness. The O-line had no depth. The linebackers at the time were average. That was a problem. And he's expensive. And so great kid. I was never a fan of what he did in New England. New England saw it. Moved off. And I didn't like the Rams doing it. So let me start with

that. Good kid. I wouldn't pay him. But this trade is really not about Brandon Cooks. It's about two teams with talent in big markets who are increasingly dysfunctional. So let's start with Houston. I have defended Bill O'Brien as a coach. I don't like him as a GM. And even the Andre Hopkins move. He just didn't want to renegotiate the contract. I think he should have gotten a couple two second round picks, you know, not not fourth round picks, but I understood moving him. So I've tried to be, defend Bill O'Brien more than most. But let me ask you, they have Will Fuller can't stay healthy. Randall Cobb, Green Bay got rid of him because he was always hurt. Kenny Stills, I like, but he missed three games last year. And Brandon Cook concussion issues.

Are you guys just in the business of finding wide receivers who are not? not healthy. And it's the greatest wide receiver draft. All these scouts and GMs are saying in the last decade, you gave up a 57th pick, a second round, mid-second round pick. There are going to be pro bowl wide receivers taken in the second, third, and fourth round. And they're going to be cheap labor.

You know, like what the Patriots want. I don't get it from Houston standpoint. You know, Bill O'Brien now is the head coach and the GM. He's got too much darn power. It's like when you're the boss and the coach, essentially his parents left for the summer and left him the house, and he's just lost control. And they gave him some money,

and he spent all of it in the first three weeks. And now he's eating corn flakes for dinner. He's just making crap up, trying to cover his butt for previous bad moves. I don't like it at all for Houston. Secondly, for the Rams. Oh, Colin, you're an L.A. guy. You'll probably support what the Rams did.

No, I won't. They pay too much money, and they pay everybody early and they fall in love with players. Wrong. The great personnel people fall in like with everybody. Even Belichick with Brady. It was mostly a like affair, not a love affair. And, you know, the Rams, if Bill O'Brien is the kid

whose parents left him the house for the summer and he's got out of control, the Rams are the guy that loves cars and keeps buying cars and has a collection of cars and wants to show everybody his cars and he doesn't need all the cars. Here's my sports car. Here's my SUV. Here's my Hummer. here's Mackey. And guess what? The minute you drive them off the lot, they're all worth 30% less. They just collect stars. And in the end, think about this. Brandon Cooks was under contract in

2018 for $8 million and could have been franchised for 16, meaning the Rams could have theoretically gone year to year and paid him $25 million for the first two years. Instead, they gave him a new contract, paid him 42 mil first two years, and by waiting until March 15th to trade him, that triggered a $4 million roster bonus for cooks. Now, on his way out of town, they'll have a $22 million cap hit. I mean, again, if you fall in love with cars and keep buying them, they lose 30% when they get off the lot. The Rams and the Texans are doing something I hate in life.

They're confusing activity for efficiency. It's just bad move, bad move, bad move, bad move, bad move, trying to follow up on a move that didn't work. New rule in the NFL. Pay almost nobody big money and never pay anybody except the star quarterback early. And you'd stay at 90% of these problems. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Oh, so I saw this. So yesterday, Tua, and I do think he's a medical concern,

but I think he's a great kid. And I think he looks like Drew Brees to me left-handed. So Trent Dilfer had a workout with him, said he throws better than Aaron Rogers and Dan Marino. Well, Dan Marino is the greatest release I've ever seen, so I'm not going to go there. and Aaron Rogers is pretty damn good. But I do think Tua is better at his age than Aaron was at his, but Aaron's become an all-time great player. But here's the thing about risk. Outside of Jerry Judy, the wide receiver for Alabama

and Chase Young, the past rusher for Ohio State, this whole damn draft is risk. Tua, medical risk. Tristan Wurfs is in offensive linemen. Everybody loves top 10. Some people think he's a guard, not a tackle. Joe Burrow. Average arm, only really great one year in college.

He'll go number one. Baker Mayfield walked on two times. He went number one. Last year, Kyler Murray was 5'9 and a first-round baseball draft pick. Many speculated he likes baseball more than football. He got drafted number one. The whole draft is a risk. Carson Wentz played in the middle of nowhere.

Risk. Isaiah Simmons, who I think is unbelievable for Clemson. They don't know what position he played. plays. Nobody has any idea what position he plays. So this whole thing is about risk. You are giving, think about this, your brain is fully developed at 25. That's what they say. So you're giving 22-year-olds, millions of dollars, asking them to move to a different city and asking them to be the face of the franchise. That's not risk? How many 22-year-olds do you give the keys to a billion-dollar business to? This whole thing is just managing risk.

I've said this about the virus. Once we get past the peak, people will die because of the virus. We have to manage risk. We're managing mental health. We're managing car deaths. Once you get past the peak, and that's the scary part because hospitalizations, getting cram, people can't get in. Once you get past that, we just have to manage this. It won't be perfect.

We will open up universities and some kids will get it again. You're managing it. That's what we do in life. And in fact, here's the funny thing about risk. I'm going to go to the last four drafts. The quarterback who had a lot of risk. And you tell me how they did. Last year, Kyler Murray, 5-9 baseball player.

I would say today, Arizona's darn happy with the first year. The year before, tell me how this worked out. Lamar Jackson, he was the risk guy, right? year before that it was Patrick Mahomes. Kansas City moved up to get him because he lost in college, had a wrist surgery, ACL joint, losing record. He makes a lot of mistakes. He's a little bit of a loose cannon.

How'd that work out? Year before, Carson Wentz, heard in college, played against nobody. How's that worked out? So the last four quarterbacks with all the risker, are Kyler, Lamar, Patrick, and Wentz. I'm going to go with, I like all of them. So it's almost like I grew up in the Pacific Northwest, so I have some Nike stock and I have some Starbucks stock. I buy it every year.

I'm not going to get rich on that. They're pretty safe companies, right? Well run. I know people in the businesses. I buy Starbucks and Nike stock. I'm not going to get rich on it. You know how you get rich? Being a seed money, angel investor in 2008 for Uber.

You want to get rich. It's not buy an IBM stock and Starbucks stock. you want to get rich in the NFL, you're going to have some risk because some people are going to pass on people allowing you to go get that player. If Tua scares off 24 teams and you're Miami and have 13 picks, draft two quarterbacks in this draft. Draft two at five and, you know, with one of your later picks, you find a kid in a smaller school and you're like, yeah, he's not Tua, but we like him. With that, I bring in Joel Klatt, voice of college football at our network, Fox, Fox NFL draft analyst as well. Check out his mock draft on Fox Sports.com and at NFL on Fox. It's out new. Okay, so I look at it, Claster.

And Bengals take Burrow, Chargers take Tua. You have no Justin Herbert in the first round. What do you say for yourself? Yeah, I mean, where the teams are slotted, I had a hard time fitting him in. So I fully expect him to go in the first round. Colin, I just think it's going to be a trade to do so. Right.

So as I was just going through the practice, you know, I could have given the dolphins, Herbert at 18 or maybe even 26. And I thought about it really hard at 18, but I went with the linebacker, Patrick Queen from LSU anyways. Listen, I'm not quite as high on Herbert as others. So that's going to influence this mock draft. Now, I'm also one that's trying to be realistic about where people will and won't get drafted. And Herbert is a glaring omission from this mock draft.

So I'll admit that. However, I will suggest that when you look at next year's draft with Fields and Lawrence, there might be quarterback needy teams that won't take the risk on a guy like Herbert or love, because I do believe that there is a significant drop-off between our. our top two quarterbacks in the draft, Burrow and Tung of Iloa, and then once you get down to Herbert and Love, Herbert and Love have substantial risk. And I would argue that Herbert, while maybe the safer pick over Love,

doesn't have quite the ceiling in large part because, Colin, we've seen him play of substantial number of snaps. He's got a lot of experience at the college level, and he still is making some of the same mistakes and has some of the same traits that he struggled with in his youth, if you will at Oregon. So those are the reasons, but I will say that I do believe he'll be drafted in the first round where I'm not quite sure.

I do believe it's going to be a trade at some point once you get down past like pick 15. Well, Miami's got the most picks, so it won't be a surprise that Miami has a very good draft. You have them, and I don't think this is crazy. I did not see your mock draft before I said this. My staff as a witness. I said last hour, 30 minutes ago, I said, don't be shocked if Miami doesn't take a quarterback and says to themselves, you know what, Ryan Fitzpatrick, we're going to go and solve our defense. Brian Flores has a defensive background or our offensive line.

And then with one of their two other first round picks goes for Jordan Love, who is a developmental prospect, but they have Ryan Fitzpatrick for a year so they can just sit him for a year and let him figure it out. So you have the dolphins taking Tristan Worf's, a big, beefy offensive tackle from Iowa. I don't think it's nuts. I got to be honest with you. Nobody's discussing this. Why do you have them taking a tackle?

Well, they need tackle help, first of all. They have all of that draft stock like you were talking about. And when you look at what I believe they're going to be trying to do from a model perspective, I think it's going to, in some cases, mirror what New England was trying to do for all of their years. And so when I look at their offensive line, I see big offensive tackles, in particular, guy like Nate Solver comes to mind who went to Colorado. Now he's not in New England anymore, but he was there for a substantial part of this run. Worf's athletic so he can get out on the screen game. He's incredibly athletic. He saw that at the combine. He's also young. He's going to

grow even a little bit more. He's huge. He's physical. He can great in the run game. And I just think he's a great prospect, in particular at the tackle position, where I think he's got the highest upside of any of these tackles. Now, it wouldn't shock me if they went Mackay Beckton, who's a gigantic player from Louisville. Wouldn't shock me if they went Wills from Alabama or even maybe Andrew Thomas, but those might be a reach at five, whereas worse, at least as a prospect, can project into that top five because of his incredible athletic ability. By the way, you have seven or eight wide receivers in the first round. Why in the world would I draft a wide receiver in the first round when there's 60 available in this draft.

Yeah, I mean, going through this, I couldn't agree with you more. Now, when you look at some of these team needs, a lot of people need wide receivers. So as the NFL, at least in my estimation, is more wide receiver needy than they've ever been. This might be the deepest wide receiver draft that we've ever seen. And what happens is once you get a run on a position, Colin, you know this. You've been covering the draft and watching the draft for so long. It's a bit of a domino effect, right?

So once you get the first wide receiver off the board, then people say, well, we better go get our guy. Well, we better get our guy. And then all of a sudden, what you get is as teams at the back end of the first round, who I would say absolutely have to get wide receivers, like the Vikings and the Vikings, like the Vikings and the Vikings, like the Vikings and I really think those two teams are going to be selecting. depth of the position. I've got Denzel Mems going to the Minnesota Vikings, then Brandon Iyuk from ASU going to the Packers. I really think those two teams are going to be selecting wide receivers late. And so when I'm going through this exercise, it's just a domino effect of teams ahead of them took wide receivers. There's first round graded wide receivers available. So I gave them to those teams late in the first round. You know what I just noticed? I always use the American Idol example that they only give you

about 15 seconds to sing an American Idol because talent jumps off the television set. These guys complaining about pro days. My takeaway is talent jumps off the TV set. You only have six seniors going in the first round. It is a junior, meaning the really good players don't need to stay in college forever. That's right. Six seniors. Now, I want to segue to this.

Pro days. Okay. Johnny Mansell, Sam Bradford, Jamarcus Russell had great pro days. Teddy Bridgewater was awful. He's the one that just got the money. What am I? I don't like, here's why I don't like pro days. Because I'm sitting next to a bunch of scouts.

And I can be influenced by their ooze and awes and body language. And in the end, I'm talking myself into stuff that I've already seen on tape. And I also don't like it because it's the most comfortable workout a player has. And the NFL is about discomfort, not comfort. So I don't buy pro days, have major influence. influence. What do you think? Well, I think that they have, listen, I agree with you in principle. Unfortunately, I think that at times teams get sucked in and decision makers get sucked in and place too much importance on them. I couldn't agree with you more. Listen, pro days, in particular

from a quarterback, you have to understand. And let me just describe this. I don't know if people really understand this, but quarterback's the only position that designs their own pro day workout. They bring in their own private coach. They get out there and it's very comfortable. Hey, we're going to throw five passes to the left and five passes to the right and they're going to be in this tree and this is what we're going to try to show you. All the other guys, all the other position groups, save for the wide receivers who are running routes for the quarterback, they get taken through a workout by just one of the scouts in the building. So for sake of argument, the New York Giants linebacker coach or scout is out there. And he's like, okay, give me all the linebackers.

And he just starts throwing them through impromptu drills. They can't get ready for them. They're seeing the drill for the very first time. And so they're uncomfortable in those settings. So I genuinely believe that pro days are much better of an evaluation period for every other position outside a quarterback because of that comfortable aspect that you were talking about. If you're looking at what you get watching a quarterback in pro days, virtually nothing. Now, here's what I would say, Colin, if you see him doing things that you haven't seen on tape,

throw up a big caution flag, right? This should be for confirmation only. No new information. Okay. If you show me that all of a sudden you can throw that route in shorts and the T-shirt, I'm actually going to downgrade you because I'm like, wait, why can't you take it from the practice field? onto the tape and put that into action during game play. Then the other two things that I think are most important about the ProDade time is that you

actually can sit with the quarterback and meet with them, talk with him about X's and O's, talk with him about his scheme and your scheme, see if he can pick it up, and then you can have access to the entire collegiate staff. You can talk to the academic support advisor. You can talk to the trainer. You can talk to the assistant trainer. You can talk to the strength coach. You can talk to the position coach.

you can talk to the opposing coordinator from that player, and you can get a really good picture of what this kid is as a person holistically once you bring them into your building. And I think those are the most important parts of Pro Day. But when it comes to just the actual physical aspect of the quarterback throwing, I think it's the most overrated thing in the draft process, period. By the way, you set 12 Colorado passing records when you quarterback the Buffaloes. You had a pro day. How'd it go?

Well, I mean, 12 in my first year starting 44 overall. all get it right. I don't care about your feelings. So the old, but who cares about that? My pro day was horrendous. Okay. Here's the deal. Colin, we had no wide receivers coming out for the draft.

So I had nobody to throw. I had a couple of tight ends that were coming out, a running back that was coming out. If you remember a guy named Lawrence Vickers was a pullback that was coming out, two tight ends, Joe Klofenstein and Quinn Sabniewski, who played for a little bit in the national football league. But we had to pull guys that were just like NFL free agents at the time that were working out at this place called Velocity down the road, and I had to bring them out

and throw to them. It was terrible. And let me just tell you that my strength was never sitting in shorts and a T-shirt and getting people to ooh and awe at my arm strength. But what I could do was operate a system. So it was not lost on me that I earned my contract, albeit an undrafted free agent contract, because I went to rookie mini camps, both in Detroit and New Orleans, without contracts and earned them over those three days by operating the system during.

those three days. I could get this in and out of the huddle. I could operate the checks. I could throw the football a long time, so on and so forth. Now, I didn't have nearly the ability or the stature or the medical record to stick in the NFL, but that's the process that was better for me. And so from a young age, I knew that pro days were worth very little as it relates to what that player's success is going to be at the next level. That's a pretty little. I have big 44 records at Colorado, right? Is that what you said? Well, I mean, I don't think many of them are standing now, but, you know, give me a pigskin. I'll throw it over that mountain.

Yeah, I think they used to run like the wishbone or something. That's probably why it broke all this. That's right. See, but that's smart of me, Colin. You got to respect the fact that I was smart enough to go to a place that had very low expectations. You used to run the wishbone, and it's like, then you can leave with all the records, right? All right. Okay, one more.

One more. His mock draft, by the way, is at Fox Sports.com and NFL on. Fox, that's a Twitter thing. All right. What the hell do I do with Isaiah Simmons? Every time I watch Clemson, he makes every other tackle. He doesn't have a position. He reminds me a Shaq Thompson, Carolina out of Washington. He was a great high school safety. They used him at running back. He could be linebacker. And he's a good player. I like Shaq Thompson. What do I do with Isaiah Simmons? Where does he go and what do I do with him? Isaiah Simmons is the second safest pick in the entire draft. You set it in your question. Every time I turn on the play,

the tape, he makes every play. Why wouldn't you want that? I don't care where he lines up. You care where he lines up if he makes every play? No, line him up like 10 yards away from the ball. Who cares? He's always at the football. Isaiah Simmons is a phenomenal player.

And remember now, in today's game, what do we see more and more of? We see hybrid players being more important, both offensively and Colin defensively. So it's going to pay huge dividends for whatever teams draft Isaiah Simmons, that he can play safety and cover well and has great range. He can play linebacker. He can cover the slot. He can be in the box. He can also blitz off the edge.

So he's dominant, not just good, but dominant, at every level of defense. I think that's an incredibly valuable commodity when you're talking about defense in the modern age. Oh, by the way, I didn't ask you this. I thought I thought I did. My producer reminded me, Greg, I didn't. To his pro day tape, what'd you make of it? Fine. I mean, again, I don't care.

I don't care how you look right now. I think Tua is a fabulous player. I love his game. He's not quite Burrell, but that's mainly because of the injury history that he's suffered. Again, you know what I can't see in a pro day is the fact that my biggest knock on the field with Tua is that he thinks he's more elusive than he is. That one trait has led to all of his injuries. He thinks he can get away from guys.

He can't. They roll up on his ankles. He's had two ankle injuries and a fractured hit because of that one trait that I think is very concerning in particular when you're moving up a level and all those players around you are going to be bigger and faster. Joe Clatt set 44 records at Colorado. Most don't exist now. Most don't exist because they did move to the forward pass a slightly soon after. All right, Cladster. Good talking to you, buddy. Put some respect on it. I love it, Colin. Thanks, brother. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever.

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Oh, one of my favorite guys over a decade in the NFL, a pro bowler. T.J. Hushmanzada, Fox Sports NFL analyst also works out with a lot of these guys and knows his stuff. You know, I'm looking at this stuff and I'm looking at all these players. You've worked out with Justin Herbert. Let's re-address this. You've worked out with Justin Herbert. You like him a lot, right? Man, physically, it's something I've never seen before.

He's big, and his arm is just. just unbelievable. You would have to see it. You can't even put it like I've played and I've been around all the best quarterbacks. I've never seen anybody physically throw the ball like he does. Nobody. Joe Burrow, you worked out with him?

Yeah. What do you think? I like Joe. Joe is super confident and what really sold me was the last couple weeks it was rain and almost every day. And I don't think he threw one bad ball in the rain. Everything was on the money. And so Joe is going to.

going to be a really good quarterback just with his temperament, and confident, and it shocked me that in the rain, everything was on the money. Would you make a Tua's tape and his pro day on film? Tua is physically a talented player. It's just the injury history. Tua, had he not been hurt, him and Joe Borrow would have pretty much been fighting for that number one spot, and they probably still are. I thought it was impressive considering just having surgery when he did,

coming back from a hip injury, putting that work into a super, super, super talented. It is just a matter of, is his body going to hold up? Are pro days overrated? Pro days are overrated. Okay, I'll give you this analogy. And we'll just talk quarterbacks for this instance. If we have a final, final exam in college, and our professor lets us take the test three to four times,

we should score an A on that final. And so that's what's going on, especially what quarterbacks is. They practice this pro day time and time and time again with the same guys that are going to be running around. So when it's time for the pro date, they're going to perform well because they've already practiced it. They've already taken the exam before actually taking the exam. And so it's rehearsed. Jordan Palmer would have run Joe's pro date. Trent would have run and had ran to his pro date.

John Beck and those guys, they did run Justin Herbert's Pro Day. And so you're taking an exam before the actual exam. What was your Pro Day like? My pro day was number one, it was different. At the time, Oregon State, we didn't have an indoor facility. So we went outside around the 40. It was freezing cold. Went back inside, did the jumps, and that was it, no route.

And so myself, Chad, and a couple other receivers, we went up to USC's pro day. They wouldn't let us work out. So all the coaches, we went down to Dorsey High School, Jack grabbed in the field, and ran around there. They all came down there. How about that?

The receiver just on film, and I think there's a bunch of good ones, but when I look at Jerry Judy, and I see his explosiveness, his first four or five steps, it doesn't even look, he's pulling away from LSU defenders, from Georgia guys, from Auburn guys.

I look at him and I think he's so much better than everybody else. What do you see having played the position for a decade in pro football? It's not, I'm going to let people in on a secret, not too many. Some know this. There's some good trainers. Judy number one was he was fortunate. He's trained with some guys that know what they're doing down in Florida. I will say that.

The guys he's trained with in Florida, those trainers really know what they're doing. The key to playing receiver is not his first four steps. It's his ability to decelerate. his ability to stop and put his foot in the ground. He does that better than 90% of the guys in the NFL right now. Like his ability to stop is unbelievable. He can decelerate. He can stop with the best of them,

and that's why he creates so much separation. Is there another receiver? Let's take Michael Pittman at USC's not a burner. I told somebody, a GM on the East Coast called me the other day, and he said, who's your most underrated player in the draft? We were just joking around, and I said, You're going to think I'm a homer because I live in L.A. I watched Michael Pittman's dad.

He was tough as a $5 steak. And I said, Pittman's a tough kid. He walked on to USC as a true freshman and was a great playmaking special teams guy. He's gotten better every year at USC. And I don't think USC last several years has had great coaching. Take Michael Pittman at USC. What do you see? He's not a burner.

What do you see? Man, so I guess I could be called a homer too. I'm privy to Michael Pittman because of, I just so happen to be working with. Tyler, it's exactly what. Man, Pittman is a worker. When I tell you he's a worker, he could have one leg, and he'll call you and be like, let's go work out.

He got a root canal in the morning, and we worked out two hours after. A root canal. And now what Pittman is going to surprise for people, like underrated, Pittman can decelerate. He's big. He's tough.

Pittman is going to play 10 years in the league because he can do what I just, said about Judy. He can decelerate. If you can decelerate and create separation, you're going to play in the NFL. That's what it's about. It's not about how fast you are. Can you stop? Can you stop like a Ferrari?

Or do you stop like a car when they screech? It goes, if they're making that much noise when they stop, they're not going to be successful. You need to stop right on a dime. And that's what Pittman can do. That's what I've taught him. And he's gotten better and better from the first day until the last day we're going to work.

He's gotten better. And Pittman is going to be surprised if people think, oh, he's not a first, second round guy. He's not a surprise for people. You got drafted by the Bengals in the seventh round out of Oregon State 19 years ago. So when you talk to Joe... Damn, I'm old. Well, you look good, though. So, and you've got, and you're a curious human, so you're smart and thoughtful and you're aging very, very well. But you know the Bengals, and Joe Burrell's probably asked you once about the Bengals. What concerns you about Joe Burrell going to the Bengals? I mean, there's not, I'll look at the Bengals, and just from a on the field standpoint, they're

two and 14, they have the number one pick for a reason. And when you look at the players they have, it's like, how are they not better? They have a good team when you look at the players. If AJ can come back healthy, they're going to be pretty good. They got Joe Mixing in the back, though. They got Tyler Boy, they got John Ross. If you can stay healthy, that defense, they spent some money on free agency. They went out and got guys that were in the playoffs,

and they paid these guys to come to Cincinnati. What concerns me is with that being said, they had been with that talent, they should be playing better than what they are. That's the only thing that concerns me. Joe was super confident in themselves. Oh, I can go to Bengals. I never had to lose a season.

Well, there's a lot of guys that come out of college without lose a season in their first year in the league. They lose. Kind of American say the same thing. Right. I've never had to lose a season. You go to the Cardinals, you're going to lose. And so he has a tall task in front of him.

This is not going to be easy. It's just the only thing that concerns me is with the talent that the Bengals have always had, they just can't seem to get over the hump. Is Joe the guy to do it? If he does it, it's going to elevate him. And if he does it, it's going to be like, yeah, another quarterback that wants to the Bengals and can get it done. You're very tough-minded.

How much of this league is physical and how much is psyche? Man, I would probably say 15% physical, 85% mental, and everybody can play. Everybody's a good. Why are so many first-round guys they don't make it? Physically, they have the talent. We can't see the mental capacity. We can't see the toughness. We can't see when it gets hard.

Are you going to fold? Are you going to capitulate? Or you're going to fight through that? You don't see that until you get to that adversity. Is it going to reveal your character? And so you can't see that physically, and that's the biggest thing in the league. When you had these hard times, like we just said, with a Joe Boyer-Col, I've never had to lose a season. And then you lose your first five or six games.

How do you adjust? How do you react to that? How do you rebound from that? And you can't see that. Did you ever get on your Bingle's first two classes, the one you came in with and the one after, the first two? Did you ever see a player with talent? just mentally couldn't handle the league. Colin, we had a player, and I don't even, I know he went to, I believe he went to Mississippi State.

We had a player. We were in training camp. And our training camp, first day of camp, two practices, second day at camp, two practices, third day at camp, two practices. Fourth day, you can't even walk and you got to go practice. Literally, we had a guy not show up the practice and left and went home in the middle of the night. Like, I'm gone. Just quit.

It was that hard. Like, you can't even work. walk and you got to get up and go practice. And so that right there just shows you like, oh, he was physically really good, but mentally he couldn't deal with it. And that happened. There's so many good players that get cut, really good players. But mentally they don't have the IQ or they don't have the toughness to deal with it. Who is the strongest mental player, mentally strongest player you ever played with? Oh, wow. That's a tough question. To me, the guys, that are really good players but aren't the greatest at their position physically.

Or when guys get hurt, like, I look at a guy like Willie Anderson. He got banged up towards the end of his tenure with me in the Bengals, and he was still out there playing at a Pro Bowl level. Should be in a Hall of Fame, but that's another story. You look at guys like him. I look at a guy like Corey Dillon. Corey Dillon, I remember had a car accident on the way to a game. Sunday and still played in the game.

Wow. And so there's so many stories like that that you're like, you're going to play? Yeah, I'm going to play. Like, all right, let's know. You're good. And so it's so many guys that that's just physical. There's guys that have problems at home with their wives or their kids or their parents and they go out there and play.

Chad would have problems with family problems and nobody would know about it, but myself at market. He'd go out there and play, have 100 yards. and nobody knows what's going on in this personal life. Mentally, you've got to block that out. And for those three hours on Sunday, go get it done. Always love talking to you, man. You're smart.

You just have, you're a pleasure to talk to. T.J. Hushman Zada. You have a great weekend. We'll talk a couple more times before the draft, buddy. Colin, I appreciate it. Take care of. Keep up the great work, man. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the Internet lost its mind.

And nobody's telling you exactly. what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source the athletes themselves. Their locker

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need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Clivert Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee.

We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at?

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