The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Best of The Herd for Apr 16, 2020

Episode Date: April 16, 2020

Michael Jordan says this new documentary will make people think less of him, Colin disagreesCollege sports can't rely on football to pay for everythingTrade rumors always get denied in the NFL, doesn't mean they aren't trueGuests: Brian Kelly, Notre Dame Head CoachSam Smith, Author of The Jordan Rules Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played. with and just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to listen to learn the hard way on the iha radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast what's up guys

this is clivert taylor the fourth and on my podcast the clivert show i'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff like being an internet famous referee we're in the middle of a game this linebacker this linebacker walks up to me he goes a ref my mom wants you to wave at her what Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Rhett, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Ms. Parker.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for listening to the best of herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday. From 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRadio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeart Radio app by searching herd. This is the best

of the herd with Colin Cowherd on Fox Sports Radio. Ah, here we go. It is a, what, Thursday today? Week is flying by live in Los Angeles, sunny and beautiful Los Angeles. It is the herd.

Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, we're on iHeartRadio, Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and Sirius XM Channel 83, hour from now, Notre Dame head coach. Brian Kelly stops by. Can't wait for that. Ben Watson, former NFL tight end, super smart guy. Greg Kossel, Doug Gottlie,

were packed. Joy Taylor is joining me. You know, Joy, this is, this virus is obviously depressing for a lot of people. Yesterday, though, I had a great day. I got home. It was 75, daughter laying out at the pool. We had a good show. You know, poured a little early afternoon cocktail,

called a couple of friends. And I just said to myself, I'm going to make it a good day. I wasn't on Twitter. I didn't watch television. I didn't want to go through all the agony of that stuff and all the mental anguish. And I had a great day yesterday. How about you?

I also had a great day. I went for an hour and a half walk. It was a beautiful day here in Los Angeles yesterday. So there was a lot of people out walking, but again, you know, kind of staying away from each other. And I'm with you. I'm just trying to, you know, stay busy, call people I haven't talked to in a while, stay positive, not taking too much news. Sometimes the media underestimates the intelligence of the American people.

I'll give you an example on this. So years and years ago, I covered the Olympics in Salt Lake City, and everybody's like, oh, the traffic's going to be terrible. There was no traffic because people in Salt Lake City watched the news, heard about the bad traffic, and stayed in their houses. Years ago in Los Angeles, early 80s, they had the Olympics in Los Angeles. They were very fearful, the traffic would be horrible. It wasn't.

People in Los Angeles stayed in their home. because they watched the news and it was terrible. If you open the economy back up, people are not all going to rush out. You're not giving the American public credit. People who are smokers, overweight, have lung issues. They know they're in the crosshairs of this. They're smart. If you're over 80, you've got some debilitating medical conditions.

If you are a smoker, if you are obese, you're in the crosshairs. I'm not as much. Young people are not as much. So the idea that everybody's just going to rush out without masks, people are smart. They're watching the news. They know if they're more prone to real problems with this. Games can open up tomorrow. People aren't going to go to them.

Most people won't. Force them to wear masks, social distancing. I live in a city. Everybody, smart, social distancing, very responsible. I've been totally encouraged by the actions of Americans. I'm always discouraged by the panic-driven here. heat-seeking missiles in the media that think they're smarter than the public. The public is not going to rush back into restaurants, nor will that be allowed.

I mean, sometimes I watch the media, I'm like, do you think everybody's dumb? You could open up everything in Los Angeles tomorrow. I'm not going to 90% of it. I may go to my restaurant. I'll look in and say, too many people, I'm not going. I'm not going in. And I'm not even in the crosshairs physically. I don't think because I run every day in pretty good shape.

don't have debilitating, you know, medical underlying medical conditions. So it's just sometimes the media doesn't give the public enough credit. The Olympics. The roads clear out because people read the news and say, I don't want to be in some traffic gridlock. People will figure this out. But I do think at some point, we've got 22 million people have filed for unemployment. I think the social issues on this and the psychological ramifications are going to be incredibly bleak. And I do think we have to figure out ways very, very, very.

very, very, very, drip, drip, drip, gradually begin in a couple of weeks or a week or whatever's, move back into the economy. Okay, let me, I want to lead with this today. So Michael Jordan has a documentary, his upcoming 10-part doc. It's going to start Sunday. And it's going to be really, really good. But Michael Jordan is concerned that he comes off looking terrible.

Mostly because Michael Jordan could sometimes treat people terribly. Jordan says when people see the footage, I'm not sure they're going to be able to understand why I was so intense and why I did the things I did and why I rode players the way I did. Listen, Michael Jordan is safe. Because in America today, it's all about affirmation, not information. And we all love Michael and we worship him.

And that gives him a Teflon cover and we wear his shoes and nobody will care. If you like Donald Trump, you go to Twitter and tell everybody how great he is at those press conferences. They're awful. They're awful. Networks are dropping them. They're narcissistic. He's bragging about television ratings and people are dying.

They're awful. Whether you like him or not, they're terrible. But if you like him, oh, it's a strength and he's goading the media. I love it. Whoever you love, you love. These people out there that bang on LeBron James, if I have to hear LeBron's not clutch. LeBron James has four postseason buzzer beaters. Forget all the other baskets under 25 seconds.

He's got four buzzer beaters in the playoffs. Kobe and Michael combined have three. But he's not clutch. He's not clutch. It's one of the most clutch players I've ever seen in my life. LeBron James, one of the most clutch players I've ever seen in my life. Now, the late Kobe Bryant had a reputation as clutch. Yeah, remember that game, Staples Center, game 7.

against the Celtics when Ron Arte's had to hit the big baskets. Kobe was terrible that night. And that's not saying Kobe couldn't be clutch, but people get reputations and they're rock solid. And if you love somebody these days, it's about affirmation, not information. I mean, let's be honest, too. Everybody leads differently. Tom Hanks and Matt Damon have great reputations in Hollywood.

Christian Bale and Catherine Hegel. Not so much. Jeff Bezio, Hall of Fame baseball players. People loved it. Everybody loved Craig Beasio. Jeff Kent, great player. Nobody liked him. Charles Barkley, Magic Johnson, two of the nicest guys in the history of the media. Everybody loves him. Michael Jordan?

Not everybody loves him. Michael wasn't nice. He was petty. He held grudges. He ghosted people before people ghosted. He punched teammates. He humiliated people. He's still to this day.

Not everybody's favorite. He's about MJ. And it's okay. That's who he is. Michael had an aspirational drive that's second to none. He never ever asked anybody to do things he would not do. If Michael asked you to do it, he was willing to do it. He just didn't have a ton of patience for people that didn't have his talent.

That's why he would be a terrible coach and was not a good general manager. He was not. He is a great basketball player, probably the best I've ever seen. And he was a, he's the most relentless basketball player I've ever seen. He was, there's never been a player as relentless. He practiced hard. He played hard. He played on both ends.

He just, he was suffocating if he was guarding you and he was debilitating if you were guarding him. But he wasn't know as a nice guy. In my business, Rush Limbaugh's got a reputation as a great guy. Michael Savage, a little rough around the edges. I like the eyeman Don Imus. He wasn't know what was the nicest guy to work with. Howard Stern's supposed to be a great guy. Everybody leads differently.

But we do live in a society. where people make their minds up. Tom, Brady and Bill Belichick, nine Super Bowl, six rings. Well, they cheated. Really? Really, they cheated for all of them. They're not excellent. They're not smarter than your coach.

Do you ever feel when you coached against Belichick your coach was smarter? The answer is no. Let's start there. But you've made up your mind. LeBron's not clutch. Brady and Belichick, they just cheated. Michael's the greatest ever. This guy's overrated.

And nobody's going to move off their position. And it should be noted, even when, superheroes and Michael Jordan had a superhero quality. Superman was a really nice guy. Ironman, mostly a smart ass. Wolverine? Not a great guy. Batman hit and miss. Not everybody is built to be liked. It's okay. Nobody is going to think less of Michael Jordan. I'm going to watch it. I'm going to be fascinated by it. I'm going to comment on it next Monday. It's going to be a great 10-part documentary. He's the best, most relentless basketball player I've ever seen. But he's not a guy I've ever thought I'd like to hang out with him.

I've never thought that with Michael. I think LeBron would be fun to hang out with for an hour. Go to LeBron's house, sit down and talk for an hour or two. Michael, I've never had that interest. Tom Brady would be fascinating. I've always wanted to sit down with Phil Mickelson or a Peyton Manning. You know, there's certain guys like, oh, I'd like to get into their brain. Michael was just a warrior.

We've never seen anything like it. But you can think less of him, but I don't think it'll dent his standing in basketball greatness or how much we buy his shoes whatsoever. People make their minds up. You'll never move them off their positions. That's the new America I live in. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what it. happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host and your favorite therapist, Kyr Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in. the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Keir Gaines is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Rhett. My mama want you to weigh better.

What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. Ramos sending on to earn a store at the chip. I'm TAB Ramos.

I'm Tom Bo. On our podcast, Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines. I'm not worried about Policic. I'm not worried about Balagan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back. The biggest decisions. If you're going to look at stats and numbers, he has no shot at making this World Cup team.

And the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tabramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. March Madness got canceled. That's a big money loser for college sports,

and you know I love college football. And college football, growing, growing support that it's going to be pushed to the spring of next year, like February, March, and April. I'm all for it, by the way. I'm always dying for stuff to talk about in February of March and April. I would love college football to be played at that time. And just because I always feel I struggle on a Monday or a Tuesday to get to any college football

because there's so much great NFL football. So I would love college football to be for at least one year in a separate time. But if they can't play a college football season, they're going to lose $4 billion, the NCAA. And my takeaway is, yeah, the college sports system is a big house of cards anyway. It's Jenga. You pull out one football game out of conference at home, pays for everything, and the whole house of cards comes tumbling down. Too many teams, too many games.

College sports is a web of tangled bureaucracy and teams that can't support themselves. If you don't make money, I'm not interested in your complaints. Sorry Waterpolo. Sorry, you don't have a right to have a water polo team or a fencing team. LSU football makes $60 million. Everything else on their campus loses $25 million. Even their great baseball program, and it's great.

made a half a million dollars two years ago. That's it. It's a tangled mess of a web. And I have, if this is what it means that you're going to have to scale back and I'm hearing now, people are going to start canceling stuff. So be it. If it's not making money, I'll give you an example. You ever see that show, a restaurant impossible or bar rescue?

You ever see Robert Irvine's one of those guys, you know, and the chef guy? And what's the first thing he comes in does? He looks at the menu and strips it down. And he shrinks the menu. And he says, you have too many items on the menu. He goes, you got a million things. You're not the cheesecake factory. Don't try.

And they've got, you know, they can't do half of them right. And he says, give me six things you do well, a couple of drinks, paint the join up, and let's go. And get rid of those two employees who are lazy and they're always complaining. Strip it down. Bar rescue and restaurant impossible. That is always the answer. And by the way, capitalism without bankruptcy is Catholic. without hell.

It's not the government's job to save every business. The best will survive. And in college football, great programs make a bunch of money. Then have a men's and women's basketball program. I like baseball and softball, and I'd also throw in volleyball. That's a personal favorite. After that, fencing, good luck, wrestling. How many people show up besides parents?

You know, it's so, I think. you're going to see with this virus incredible efficiency. I think we're going to live different. I think we've gotten fat and happy over the last 10 years. Too many people with too much debt, too many businesses with too much debt. I worry about individual people in America. I worry about individual families and children. I don't want them to grow up with poverty. That is bleak. But if you're telling me the college sports system can be trimmed down 70 percent, all right. How many of the sports do you watch outside of football in the final March madness? I mean, how much do you watch?

I think regionally in the Northeast, you'd keep hockey programs. In the West, you'd probably keep some water polo and, you know, golf stuff. All right. But this is efficiency is the new norm. And my concern is for individuals, families, kids, parents, not for bureaucracies. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours. Today, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app.

Search heard to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. So I have three different sources telling me OBJ to the Vikings is not currently on the table. Now, where did it come from? So I'm going to read this to you from, is this, what's this, is it PFF or PFT? PFT. At the risk of outing sources, it doesn't take a genius to connect the dots from the WFAN. the giant New York Giants flag station, back to the team that drafted OBJ and employed him for five years. If the Vikings are considering trading for Odell Beckham, the Vikings surely are doing their homework,

and that homework surely includes contacting the New York Giants. WFAN broadcasts the New York Giants games. So here's what I'm told. OBJ in Cleveland is not ideal. Go ahead. Tell me it is. It's not. The same person that broke the Tom Brady to Tampa story and gave it to me knows OBJ. It's not ideal in Cleveland. He'd rather be other places. But he's a good soldier. He's a good teammate. He's worked very hard. He's not going to let that out. They would move him, I'm told. But it would have to be a great screaming deal.

Minnesota also told us Percy Harvin and Stefan Diggs would never be traded. They were. The New York Giants told us OBJ would never be traded. And he was. And what was the quote from the new coach at Carolina when he got there? I want Cam here. There is no doubt about it, said Matt Rule at the NFL scouting combine. Why? Because they wanted to trade him. And they didn't want to lose their leverage in the market.

So I've got NFL sources because I've been doing this 25 years. They give me all sorts of information. You know what they never give me ever, not one time in my career? A trade that's going to happen. Because trades, once they get out, you lose leverage. That's why Carolina's like, oh, we love Cam. So if somebody does call about Cam, they're like, well, we love him. You're going to have to give us another pick because we love him.

If word got out Carolina didn't like him, people would low ball you on Cam. And they were trying clearly to trade Cam. The only equivalent in college football is coaches always lie when people ask them, hey, your names come up for a job. Are you interested? And coaches always say, I am not interested. Because what coaches always say like Mel Tucker at Colorado is, I'm going to be here forever.

I love Colorado. Colorado is the place for me. This is the best place in the world. So when Michigan State calls, he's like, I love it here. Okay, we'll give you another million. I really love it here. Okay, we'll give you two and a half more million to pay your assistant coaches. I really, really, really love it in Colorado.

Okay, we'll give you 12, not just eight private jet flights for recruits. So in college, the coach always denies it because he's trying to get more money for his staff for the next job. and so he'll play hardball all day. And in the NFL, if you hear about a trade, it's mostly not going to happen. That's the general rule. And I'm told OBJ to Minnesota, they may have made calls, but it's right now, they're not doing it. Minnesota's not doing it. I do think it would be a good fit for him.

I do think it would be good for Baker Mayfield to not have another mouth to feed on the perimeter. And I do think, frankly, it would be great for O'Dell Beckham. I just think there's better places. And that leads me to the story today about the Philadelphia Eagles are reportedly eyeing a trade for C.D. Lamb. No, they're not. No, they're not.

Because if they were, it would never leak. Howie Roseman doesn't let anything out. He's a top three GM in the league. Nothing gets out. I've had dinners with GMs, and they're like, oh, you get nothing from Howie. I know Howie's roommate in college. He gets nothing from Howie.

So if it's out there, now, I've told you it was C.D. Lamb. I think he's a little overrated. And I do think first receivers in the first round, I've got proof. In the last five drafts, there have been 17 first round receivers. 14 of the 17 are busts or have underachieved. So one of these first round wide receivers is not going to be as good as advertised. And I'm telling you it's C.D. Lamb. It's not going to be Jerry Judy unless he goes to Jacksonville, then he'll underachief.

But if he goes anywhere else but Jacksonville, Jerry Judy is going to be the best receiver in the first. round. But what's funny about the draft is, 17 receivers first round taken last five years, 14 are busts or have underachieved. And if I insinuate one of them could underachieve, I don't know what I'm talking about. The bottom line is C.D. Lamb will be as good as the team that he lands in. If he goes to Kansas City with Andy Reed schemes and Patrick Mahomes, C.D. Lamb is going to be a star. If Jerry Judy, who is better, goes to Jacksonville with old Baker Mayfield clone Gardner Minshu and whoever their 19th coach in 30 years is, then he won't be as good. You're going to be as good as a wide receiver as the system, the play caller, and the coach you go to.

Because of all the positions in the NFL, we talked about this yesterday, the most reliant position is receiver. You rely on the play caller, the play designer, the quarterback in the O line. This is why Randy Moss, the greatest wide receiver talent potentially ever, disappeared in Oakland. A year later he goes to New England, has 23 touchdowns in one year. Ten is a huge year for anybody. He had 23. He disappeared in Oakland. Jerry Judy's the only receiver in this draft is going to start virtually anywhere he goes

and virtually means not in Jacksonville because they'll screw it up because they're Jacksonville. Frankly, they're not even going to be there as a franchise in probably about six, seven years. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, F.S1 and the I Hard Radio app. Brian Kelly entering his 11th season as Notre Dame's coach. He's really a phenomenal coach at every level. Cincinnati, Central Michigan, two-time college coach of the year. Last year, they were 11 and 2.

And I think the game in college football this year, I'm most interested in watching. Notre Dame host Clemson in November, and I'm crossing my fingers we have a season. I have so much respect for him. He's just terrific. And I think Notre Dame is much tougher than a lot of other schools.

You have strict academic requirements. Socially, it's not a dynamic city. It's got cold weather. It's in the middle of the country. Winters can be harsh. And he just keeps kicking butt with recruiting and keeps dominating. And I think it's amazing. And Brian, how are you this morning?

I'm doing great, Colin. I think I'm like everybody else. We're trying to find ways to, you know, continue to be creative. And I got a bit of your conversation with your daughter. I think that's awesome. I have a sophomore college daughter, too. And, you know, we used to plan ski trips because the only time I got a chance to talk to her was on the ski lift because she couldn't get to her phone. So it's kind of nice to have her around, and I get a chance to spend a little bit more time with the family in this respect.

So, yeah, it's tough out there, right? A lot of people have lost their lives, and it's a difficult time. But from a family perspective, as a coach, you make up for a lot of lost time. You know, Brian, it is, you know, there's, there's, governments can't protect everybody. And we have to get into some difficult decisions about pivoting to business and life. And it'll trickle back. Are those, when you're in a meeting, when you're talking to university people, are those uncomfortable meetings talking about it?

Are they open? Look, where do you stand this morning? on where are we with this whole thing about college football plan this year? Yeah, it's a good question. I think a lot of it is really centered around not just the game itself. It's about how you bring students back. So the NFL is a lot easier because you could conceivably, you know, bring back the professional ranks and, you know, cut a deal with the players.

Maybe there's some lost revenue there on the players end that they have to agree to, and they could play without fans, and people would buy that product, certainly, and they'd watch it on TV. It's harder to do it at a collegiate level without students, because one can't really exist without the other. So this is really a comprehensive plan now where it has to be in lockstep. So many football programs have existed as their own model, and those that have existed as their own business model are struggling right now.

Those that have been intertwined with the university are going to get through this a lot quicker. And so it's really been more conversations about how do we interact and getting the students and the athletes back together in an integrated phase so we can get the season going. I've said this before is that it is harder to win at Notre Dame for the lessons I said. it's not sunny every day. It's academically can be very difficult. I could not get into Notre Dame. You know, it's...

You and me both. When you go to recruit against Ohio State, Alabama, LSU, fine universities, but not Notre Dame, what is your sales pitch to a kid that knows school's going to be a lot easier at some of the other places? Well, we can't even go down that path where somebody, is interested in just, you know, obviously they understand college and they understand that they've got to be in school and that a degree is important. But if it's not part of their decision making, in other words, that they understand the value of an education and what a Notre Dame degree will do for them 40 years down the road, then we're probably not even

getting in that battle because we're not going to win it. So we have to be. We have to be be able to go from Washington State to Washington, D.C., to find those young men that understand that it's a four for 40, four years and 40 years. In other words, that this degree is going to give you an opportunity to open doors for 40 years. And then also have a chance to be in the playoffs and have a run at a championship and play an incredible schedule and venues all into L.A. too. Brian Kelly, 11th season, Notre Dame coach, consecutive seasons of 11 plus wins, first time since the 80s. In fact, the 88 national title season. So you'll play Clemson this year. You probably already dug into the Trevor Lawrence video. You've seen, you know, I'm sure you've seen Joe Burrow stuff and to a tape. You play all these teams, you know them. So if you were in the NFL today and you are looking at Joe Burrow as a general manager, give me a thumbnail sketch of what you think he will be in the NFL. Well, I think the thing that stands out that was an incredible, consistent piece to his performance was he threw strikes. His accuracy level was as good as I've ever seen in a, you know, very short career.

You know, obviously, we'd like to have seen it for two or three years, but for a year and what he did in one season relative to his actual career. accuracy in throwing the football was just off the charts. And I think the other thing that stood out was his makeup, a toughness to him, almost in a linebacker sense. And you'd love to see that about a quarterback. So the accuracy and the toughness that he displayed, boy, those two traits are hard to turn down. Now, by the way, I think we tend to live in the moment. and Trevor Lawrence's last football game was not great.

I saw him playing high school. I saw him live at a camp in San Diego, and I had told somebody I was sitting next to, I said, that's as good a arm as I've seen. That's as good a high school quarterback I've ever stood next to in my life. So I'm sure you've already looked through those tapes. Compare Burrow to Trevor Lawrence when you look at him. Well, a guy that can make the throws, you know, anywhere on the field,

but he's going to be in an offense that's going to, feature his ability to run as well. Not that Joe can't run. Don't get me wrong. He can, and he's got toughness, as I mentioned. But Trevor is a guy that you're going to move out of the pocket. He can make throws. He can run the football. But I just, you know, we played him obviously in the playoffs.

And his ability to see the field and vision, he's a complete quarterback. And he played against us as a freshman and just tore us apart. So as a true freshman, when you're able to do that at the highest level, and we had a pretty good secondary. He impressed me as somebody that is only going to continue to get better. Brian, when you recruit a high school player, let's say he's terrific, but he's got two injuries. And I'm talking about Tua here. Have you ever passed on a recruit because you're like, you know what,

it's more than an ankle sprain, it's three ankle sprains or it's a shoulder? how worried if you were drafting two or would you be? How worried about high school recruits who have been injured are you generally? Well, the ankles are not too worried because, you know, the tightrope procedure really is one where, you know, those are spraying that Alabama has a version of their treatment that requires them to follow a certain protocol that's different than most. So those two I'm not really concerned.

The hip, obviously, that's a little bit more concerning, but it seems as though he's come back beautifully. I would have just required to see a personal workout, and I think he's shown enough in those workouts that would, you know, take away any of the concerns that people have about him. And, you know, once you were able to see him move around and show no-will effects of that, he's a young kid that is obviously going to get stronger physically. I would not pass on somebody of his talent because of the injury. Thank you. That's what I get. They got 14 draft picks. I take another quarterback in the sixth round.

I think he's too good to pass on. This will sound like a corny question, but Notre Dame football is different. I've only been there once. It's different. It feels different. The fans are on top of you. There's no NFL. Lambo maybe.

There's nothing in the NFL like it. There's about three other places in college football that are even close to it. When you come out of the table, tunnel even today for a big game. That Clemson game of the Michigan games. You know, and again, this is a little corny maybe, but Brian, is it, do you still come out of that tunnel and think, I coached at Central Michigan? I was just, I mean, honestly, do you, is it still special to you? It is. I mean, it starts when you walk down that tunnel and you touch the sign and the tradition that you feel, the history of all the great coaches and

great players that have played there. But I think it's more than that. I think it starts when you walk to the stadium and there's hundreds of thousands of people for every game, every game lined up, you know, to welcome you. So it's just a, it's, I don't know, it's a fairy tale. Every day that you go to Game Day at Notre Dame and you run out of that tunnel, you'd have to pinch yourself, saying it's, it's unreal. I'll give you really one quick, because I know you've got a guess. No, no, no, no, no, no. You take your time. We, we, it was, it was, I think it was

2000 in, I almost say it was 14, 2014, and we had lost to Pittsburgh on the road. And, you know, we were in a tough stretch with, you know, lost a number of players on defense. And it was November and it was the next the last game of the year. It must have been below zero and we're standing in the tunnel and this is when I looked up and recognized how special it was

the entire stadium was packed and we're playing BYU and I said I wouldn't even come out to see me today especially after losing last week to Pittsburgh but that's the kind of following because it's a once in a

lifetime trip for so many people to come. They don't get the best ticket sometimes. So they're going to get the BYU ticket. No disrespect to BYU, but sometimes they don't get the U.S.D. ticket. And they're going to come to the games. And when I looked up and saw the stands full, I said, this is just different. And that story always sticks with me. By the way, I had lunch with one of your players. He's a very, very smart young man from Georgia. Mick Asaf. Oh, Mick is something else. He is sharp. He's one of our sharp. He's the leader of our walk-ons.

We put him on scholarship this year. He leads up one of our leadership committees. He is a special kit for us. Well, I had lunch with him. He spoke very highly of you. And, you know, he just, he thinks the world of you and your intensity and how you elevate players. You know, I think the world of you, I cannot wait. I am crossing my fingers on a college football season, Brian, because let me just ask you this.

fundamentally structurally. If you had to play January, February, March, would it be a big pain in the butt or could you kind of slide it down a little bit and make it work? I think we could make it work. As long as it wasn't, I think we have to get through this. We can't have an overlapping semester

because then there's eligibility questions. Okay. I don't know that we can really handle on the phone right now. So as long as there's not an overlapping semester situation, and we can get through the semesters and everybody can tie up, fall from winter and, you know, spring from summer. I think we can do that.

So I think there's enough models out there that we can get this season in. There may be some situations where, you know, we heard the other day that the mayor may not let anything happen in the city of L.A. Yeah. There may be some teams that have to play road games. And if that's the case to play

and get your season in, at different sites, there may have to be those kinds of alterations to get a season in. We'll see what happens. Listen, it's too far away for me to even venture guesses right now. I know everybody's trying to, you know, look at reasons to play. Yeah, no, and I'm apprehensive about asking because it's, you know, I mean, it's eight months away. I don't have any idea. I joke last week. I said, my local weatherman can't get the weather right 48 hours in advance. I'm not going to try to predict what happens in the fall.

But you do sound at least like you could make it work, and I love the sport so much. I hope it does work. Brian, thank you so much. Colin, thanks for having me. Good talking to you. And stay safe and cherish those opportunities to talk to your daughter, because I certainly do as well.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet. lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions,

the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys?

This is Cliver Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue of 42.

Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. Ramos sending on to Ernie Stewart.

I'm Tad Ramos. I'm Tom Boe. On our podcast, Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines. I'm not worried about Policic. I'm not worried about Balligan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back. The biggest decisions.

If you're going to look at stats and numbers, he has no shot at making this World Cup team. And the truth about the U.S. team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us.

Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tab Ramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, wherever you get your podcast. It's one of those indelible books, sports publications that you just, you can read it 20 years later. It's fascinating. It's remarkable that Sam Smith, could cover the Bulls for a newspaper and keep all the juicy stuff. Some of it, you know, he has to cover it for a major newspaper, the Chicago Trib.

And while he's doing it, he's compiling this fascinating piece of art called, you know, the Jordan Rules, published in 92, the inside story of a very turbulent season with Michael Jordan and Chicago. And, you know, I was reading a piece in the ringer this morning talking about the book. Could you get it made today? Would Twitter steal all of its stuff? Thunder would stuff leak. Just the access is just quite remarkable.

And Sam Smith, Bulls Rider, Bulls.com is joining us. Let me just start, Sam. Thank you for coming on. Do you think it would be, could you write this book today with so much media, players not giving access? I mean, you and Michael actually on the road, I was told you, you guys golfed together. Like, I don't see that happening with today's access.

Could you write this book today? No, not really. You know, it was modeled after David Halberstans. Yeah. You know, great book breaks of the game. That always has been a favor to mine. And, you know, David was kind of embedded, you know, with the Blazers. He had the bad luck of Bill Walton being hurt.

You know, I had the good luck of Michael Jordan and the Bulls winning the title. So timing is more than anything. But people don't realize back then the level of access and how much difficulty the NBA was in financially Yes. That they were so open. Back then, as a reporter, you could walk on to any team bus. You know, anywhere. Like, if I was in Boston, not put the Bulls,

I just get on the Celtics team bus to go to the game. During, before the game, when players were shooting, you would wander out and just chat with Larry Bird while he was shooting in the three games. So, you know, the NBA has become so big and so successful. But, you know, we were traveling, commercial. You know, we all had the same rule at, I mean, I didn't have the rule with the newspaper, but the team was you had to take the first flight out of the city you were in that day. So we're commercial. We were getting on the plane. Actually, that's how I got to know Phil Jackson. I'd known before that, but I would arrange my seat because the coaches sat literally in coach. The 12 first class seats were only for the players. So I would always manipulate my seat. I'd get an aisle seat because the team always. he didn't always get it. And so Phil needed it for his legs.

And I'd give him my aisle seat so I could sit next to him in the middle, and I would pump him on, you know, learning basketball. So that kind of access to people. And, you know, one thing about Michael, you mentioned, too, he loved to, he had three guys used to travel with him occasionally, but they had to come out on their own, and he couldn't come to every game. And he hated to be by himself.

He liked, you know, just have people around all the time, you know, competing, playing cards, whatever. And so when we'd be on the road and his three buddies wouldn't come, Adolf and the two Freds, one guy still works with him in Charlotte, you know, works in Charlotte. He would invite myself in Lacey Banks, my colleague at the Sun-Times, to come up to his room, sit around, play cards, talk, ping pong, you get ping pong table brought in. And so, yeah, no. Could you imagine that going on today?

No, I mean, it's really incredible. So when you're golfing with him and in the, you're, you're golfing with him and in the, these situations and you're getting this information. You know, Sam, that he's very competitive and about his image. Did you know when the book would come out? There's a certain grudge-holding quality and pettiness to Michael, and that's okay. There's a lot of people like that. But as you were writing it, did you have a sense, I better get good information now

because it's going to dry up once it comes out? No, not really. It wasn't sort of the between-the-sheets, secretive kind of stuff. stuff. I had told Michael and all the others, you know, it was sort of a lark. I mean, the truth was, if you went, if you go back, nobody expected the Bulls to win a title back then. The narrative was, and it was written frequently in Chicago media, that you can't win with Michael Jordan. Yeah. Because he plays, he plays, shoots all the time, scores too much, selfish player. The model for

success was Magic and Bird, or a great center like Moses, whatever. And that's why Akeem was number one, you know, in Michael's draft. And so, you know, we're sort of going along like, hey, you know, maybe he'll beat the piston sometime. Maybe they'll have a good ride. Now, Michael's furious about all this, of course, you know, trying to get Scotty traded and Horace traded because, you know, he wants better veteran players. But so the book sort of came up as, you know, kind of well, you know, here I'll do this sort of as a lark, you know, something to keep me busy on the road. Right. And so I went and told all the players before here, and we sat down, I said,

Look, you know, I'm going to write an inside behind the scenes. And I mentioned the Halberstam thing. I'd taken everybody to a lunch or dinner, including Michael, and said, you know, when it comes out, look, there may be some stuff team-wise, you know, that you may not like, be thrilled with, but nobody's going to lose their job. Nobody's going to be embarrassed with their family. It's a basketball story about, you know, behind the curtain, the wizard behind the curtain. And I always felt like that's what it was. Yeah. You know, people do forget.

We have amnesia. You know, he went a couple years after his freshman year of not winning a title in college. Then he had coaches fired Orlando Warridge, Quentin Daly. He didn't get along with players. There was, see, I watched a lot of that. And I remember him being just a tiger, a relentless player. But I can also remember it's much tougher. His journey to become the icon, Sam, is much tougher than people have given it credit for.

He got the hell beat out of him. I mean, he couldn't get past Bird. He couldn't get past the Pistons. Was there ever a time as great as he was covering him that you thought to yourself, he's just going to be the all-time greatest score next to Wilt? Well, I actually had more faith than most because I was around. And I saw from the beginning in the first day, I actually did a feature for the Tribune. The week he was in Chicago.

The first week was a rookie. And I went up to meet him at his townhouse. He had rented at the time. And I walked in and he was ironing his clothes. And I said, well, you know, what are you doing? I don't know how to do that. He said, well, you know, I took home at him in high school because I always insecure. I always never thought I'd be able to get married because I was embarrassed by my looks.

And so, you know, I saw this guy from the beginning come in with this real pure heart and this incredible abilities. The first practice, Rod Thorne, the GM would draft him and said famously that day at the draft, that was that, said, look, this is a really terrific talent, but, you know, let's get a hold of ourselves. He's not going to turn around a franchise. And so Rod missed the first practice. Michael went in, and they had, you know, what was that version of lottery picks then? You mentioned Orlando Orish was, you know, they had five or six guys picked in the top ten of the draft that they had been so bad. Michael dominates this first practice, and Kevin Locker, he calls Rod Thorne and says,

well, at least you didn't screw up this draft. And so, you know, from that point on, and he just, there was no rookie wall. There was no stopping. He, I mean, he's blowing by magic and bird and Isaiah, you know, his athletic first step, athleticism was so superior than anything I'd ever seen or anybody had ever seen that what the misfortune he had was when, you know, the new ownership came in the middle of his rookie year. They basically started a five-year rebuilding project around him. You know, so famously, you know, the notion back then was, well, he can't make players better.

You know, but he, you know, as he pointed out to me a couple of times, he said, well, you know, birds got, you know, McAil and parish. Magic has got worthy, you know, worthy and Kareem. you know, I've got Kyle Macy and Sidney Green and, you know, Charles Davis. I mean, are you kidding me? No, Sam Smith, Bulls Rider, Bulls.com. You know, I always thought Michael, you know, I've heard a million stories, many I'd never talk about on the air. When you look at him now in hindsight, he's worried about how he'll come across in this.

And my takeaway is, in America, people are more seeking affirmation than information. If you like him now, you'll like him later. that there's a certain love affair we had with Jordan or Ronald Reagan, and there are these people, they're almost impenetrable. But if I said to you, is Michael Jordan a good guy? How would you answer that? He really is. Yeah.

After Jordan Rules came out, he was upset with me. And I always believe that he'd never read the book. I'm pretty sure. I always remembered his famous interview I saw after Ball 4 came out. It was on Johnny Carson and Willie Mays. was being interviewed and they said, well, he said, well, this is a terrible book. And Johnny Carson says, well, which part didn't you like? You said, well, I didn't read it.

I just know it said. You know, and it was so, I've always felt like that with Michael. It was sort of a commentary on it. Yeah. Things picked out out of context, whatever, you know, everyone that was complains to me about us out of context. But, well, a journalist. And so, you know, I really enjoyed being around the guy. He was what, you know, we always called a man's man.

It was just fun to be with him. Everything was a contest, great sense of humor, you know, weren't going to dive into serious subjects. Everything was about fun in the moment. But, you know, just fun stuff with guys hanging around, competing in everything, being a conversation. It was like when it came to the team, he had a bunch of drug addicts on the team. Basically half the players on his team, he came to went into drug rehab eventually. But he befriended, Rod Higgins befriended him. He was really close.

And Rod was a great athlete to everybody, but he was this great ping pong player. And so Michael was just obsessed that year. He bought a ping pong table, and he just practiced ping pong all year long so he could play right, try to beat Rod Higginson. And so that's what he was. And so, yeah, I always really enjoyed spending time with him. And, you know, this reclusive nature he developed. sort of brilliant in a sense because you know that's why we'll see this documentary is you know

was going to be such an explosive sort of thing because no one saw him in any any couple of words he says uh it you know people are going to you know almost like moses coming down with the ten commandments you know it's like wow he said he said that but you know a very regular down-to-earth guy among his group and and but you just don't see that because he he doesn't open himself up But if he's on the golf course, still to this day, I know friends who play with him. You know, cigars out, and they're betting on every putt. And, you know, somebody walks by, they're going to be wearing a green shirt and a yellow shirt. And so he's just fun to spend time with.

There were, listen, any time, it doesn't matter if it's a rock band, and I've always equated the bulls to the rock band. They came into town, and it was the lead story in the town. Not in the, I was a sports guy. I would have to lead the news with it. That's how big they were. And so you're going to have egos. You know, Horace Grant and Michael had some issues.

Scotty and Michael, I always think, could take, you know, Michael doesn't acknowledge him enough and Scotty doesn't worship him enough. And Phil Jackson had to juggle all this. Can you give me a Phil Jackson story? And if people have not read the book about, you know, he would occasionally, like, not keep score. It practiced to tick off Jordan. and the balancing act Phil had to play to keep the greatest player and team motivated. Well, you know, Phil actually was a great exes and O's coach. He's a very knowledgeable basketball guy growing up, you know, in a NIC system where Fred Holtzman,

you know, he sort of brought that philosophy. And he basically was the assistant coach on the Knicks and won the first title because he was hurt that whole year and because he had such knowledge. And, you know, Red put him on the bench. But, you know, that got overlooked with all the Zen stuff. And so, you know, and then Phil's critics always go, well, if you have Michael and, you know, Scotty, and then you have, you know, Shaq and Kobe, how could you not win? But, you know, guys have not won with, you know, with those kind of players. So, you know, Phil's, he grew up in an interesting house, you know, of proselytizing ministers.

And so he always, I remember he always used to tell me and talk about, you know, the lesson. he learned from his mother and father who, you know, were ministers that his team was basically his congregation. And you had all sorts of different personalities in the congregation who you had to, you know, appeal to each on their level, that you could yell at Horace all the time because Horace, if he hadn't been a basketball player, he actually had signed up. He wanted to be in the Marines. You could never yell at Scotty. And so sometimes when Phil would want to say something and get on Scotty, he would yell at Horace because Horace could take it and he wouldn't get upset.

You know, Scottie would go into this funk if you yelled at him and he might not be able to play effectively for three games. So Phil was always balancing this incredible level of personalities that then, you know, extended to Dennis Rodman. And that's why, like you said, you know, they talked about, you know, recent years of Warriors and now people mention, oh, you know, is Zion Williamson. And there's nothing. There never was anything like that second.

I don't think. My personal feeling was the second three-peat wasn't as good, talent-wise, as the first. But the personality, the fame, the infamy of having the greatest player, Jordan, the greatest coach, Phil, with the mystical, whatever it was. And then Rodman, this incredible, bizarre figure, there's never been anything like that in the history of sports. never well. And so that I think that's why that group became what they did and worthy of ten parts of a documentary or whatever. So Phil was just masterful in his psychological ability. It was interesting early on because Michael, Michael didn't like the idea of a triangle offense.

I remember when Phil got hired his coach, and this is literally his first, you know, first time, first week on the job. And he was talking about the offense and everything. And so I asked Michael, and he said, I'll give it three games, but if we're losing, that's it. That is funny. By the way, was the legendary story, it's now mythology. Michael Punch Steve Curran practice. Do you remember the day that practiced the moment? I do, yes.

I do very well. And actually, there's an understory, too, that never gets told, and a lot of it had to do with. And it's true. You know, all stories like that, there's a lot of truth to them and there's other stuff to them. And so the main part, yeah, Steve, they were having to actually what happened was we used to have a preseason media conference call that was literally, you know, before all that technology. Every coach in the league would spend 10 or 15 minutes on a phone on a conference call with all the media. And so what happened at that time, Phil left practice, which he never did. So he left practice to do this call.

And then Steve is jockeying with Michael, and Michael halls off and hits him. And, you know, that's been always much discussed. Really, the understory to this, what provoked it was not so much what was going on in practice. That was the end of it. But that summer, there was a lockout in the league. It didn't cause any games. You know, they worked it out. They got an extension or whatever.

but Steve was the Bulls player rep and David Falk Michael's, you know, the agents very involved and David portrayed to Michael not exactly accurately that Steve was operating in his, you know, his quiz criticizing Michael and saying, you know, the rich players, which is what Falk had, you know, Jordan, Ewing, all those sort of guys

were operating against, you know, Michael and Falk was telling Michael that Steve, oh, Steve, you know, killing in these meetings. So Michael came in the camp because he had told one of the other players told me that Michael, when he got the camp, and he said, I'm going to get that Steve Carr at some point.

And so when Steve sort of, you know, took him out a little bit, I think Michael just, you know, came over the top. And it was really contried about it almost immediately. Left practice, like stormed out and went home and called Steve to apologize. guys. But it was sort of initially provoked by that, you know, by, you know, Falk, sort of pushing Michael about the labor stuff in the summer.

Yeah. Sam Smith, just a real pleasure, a legendary book. Folks, I strongly encourage you to go buy the book when you watch the documentary. And it just adds context to what is an incredibly rich story. And Sam, I've read your stuff for years, and I just want to thank you for coming on our show. Yeah, good to talk to you. I don't take care. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo.

And every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the iHeart radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you, you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee.

We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to wave at her. What?

Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed Human.