The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Best of The Herd for Apr 20, 2020

Episode Date: April 20, 2020

Thoughts on parts 1 & 2 of 'The Last Dance'Being great is really hard so stop complaining about mean people on twitter The Jordan era of the NBA wasn't what everyone says it wasWhere Colin was right and wrongGuest: Ahmad Rashad, former NBA Broadcaster and friend of Michael Jordan Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This is the best of the herd with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio. Oh, here we go on, it's got to be our busiest show in a long, long time, our busiest coronavirus show. This is The Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, we're on IHeartRadio, Fox Sports Radio and FS1. draft is Thursday. That's absolutely one of my favorite things in sports.

One hour from now, Colin Wright, Colin Wrong. We all watched the dock last night. Joy Taylor is joining me. I know where Joy was last night at 6 Pacific and 9 Eastern. It's where I was. And I imagine 90% or more of my listeners and viewers today were last night. How are you, Joy? I'm great, man.

That was fantastic. It was like, it was amazing. It really was, just to relive parts of that and learn new things about the dynasty and just have everyone do it together. It was great. It really was great. I have so many thoughts. I wrote notes for, you know, the entire couple of hours. I'm prone to do that.

And, you know, let me just start with this. A lot of people are going to naturally move into the, you know, Michael's way better than LeBron. Let me just say, folks, if anybody watching or listening to this show, if anybody, Any of you are ever the second best person on the planet at something, I'm not going to take a shot at you. LeBron does more good things with a basketball in his hand than I've ever seen. Michael's probably the most relentless player. But if you're number two in the world, congratulations. I tip my cap.

The fact that we only now debate MJ and LeBron, we don't debate MJ and Akeem, MJ and Kareem, MJ and Magic and Bird. MJ. We don't. We don't even debate it. We don't even go there. That tells you the greatness, not only of Michael, but of LeBron. Let me repeat something I said last week. And it was amplified. I knew about it and I watched it and it was worse than I thought. But the fact that this Bulls team, the best American sports team of my life, won six titles with all the chaos with the front office. They were fighting their front office. I already had a reservoir of respect for Phil Jackson. He is balancing a GM that resents some players, some players that resent the owner Jerry Reinsdorf,

which I told you last week is the cheap guy, the baseball-loving cheap guy. He won't give Scotty Pippen a new deal. I just couldn't live with myself. MJ carried the league and halfway through it, he wasn't being paid. He was carrying the whole league, forget the Bulls. It's just remarkable how Phil Jackson and MJ's focus and Phil's just moxie and intelligence could balance what was a chaotic mess. Virtually every dynasty of my life has great ownership or great management. You know, Pat Riley with Miami and the Hedols or the Rooney family or, you know, Kraft and Belichick.

I mean, Tom Brady didn't have the deal with nonsense all day. Remarkable what they overcame. It also, and you may find this strange, it made me think more than once about Russell Westbrook. This is why Michael loves Russell Westbrook. Russell Westbrook plays heart every night. Every night. No possessions off. And I know you think I hate Westbrook.

No, he drives me crazy. But there's a lot of Michael Jordan with Westbrook. When you watch Michael Jordan, and Jordan has said Westbrook's his favorite current player, sometimes Westbrook will do things and you're like, are you not slow it down, shift down? But then I watched Michael Jordan last night. And Michael Jordan in his second year got hurt. And the doctor said, you can play on it. But if you get hurt again, your career's over.

And Michael held a grudge against his owner because his owner was like, I don't think you should do this. I don't think we should take a risk. Michael, I wanted to go, Michael, are you crazy? You're willing to risk your career? Just sit it out. You're not a title team. I thought to myself, Michael's got a little crazy in him. And Westbrook's got some crazy in him.

But in a world where players take the night off and load management, I got to be honest with you. I came out of that thing and I'm like, props to Westbrook. Old school. I like it. I get it. He's not my favorite player. But I respect the hell out of Westbrook.

Brook. Something else that jumped out to me. Can we acknowledge now? Now, people like me, 40s and 50s who grew up with the Bulls have always known the Michael story is not linear. He didn't win without Phil Jackson and he didn't win without Scotty Pippen. He was just unbelievable. But now a lot of the mythology, you can all acknowledge now the 20 and 30 year olds who didn't see it live. Michael didn't do anything without Pippin and Phil Jackson. And you can think two thought simultaneously. You can think with one side of your brain. Michael's the best ever. And then think, but he didn't win squat without Pippin and Phil Jackson. And it's okay. He's both. Remember that last night they told you when Pippin didn't rehab and Michael had to start the year with him?

Fifteen games they were eight and seven. And by the way, he ran through Doug Collins and Stan Albrook. And in the series against Boston, he scored 49 and 63. Yeah, and they lost both of them. The reality, even Michael Jordan admitted. You say my name, you got to say Pippin. You can think two things simultaneously. Michael's the best ever, but even Michael needed the right coach and the right Robin to his Batman. So far, this is mostly, it mostly through two parts of it amplified.

Everything I knew, it just gave you a little dirt. This was the greatest team I ever saw. It was the most glamorous team I ever saw. and it was the most relentless team I ever saw. Just nobody outworked them. Michael had a status. He was refined. He was dignified.

There was a class with him that I think there's a lot of really classy guys in sports, but I think only Brady has that where Brady feels like he could just buy all the other quarterbacks. Michael right now, even when he came into the league early, there was just a dignity and a royalty. He was American sports royalty. But my over, I got one overriding thought here is that, and this is a message because people my age know what I'm about to say. And I don't want to come off as a cranky old fart lecturing people. But most 20-year-olds in the media and most 18, 19-year-olds, there's a message in this whole damn thing.

Michael Jordan's the best basketball player ever. and he had obstacles the whole way. That his dad loved his brother more than him. His brother physically beat him up playing basketball. He got cut in high school. His GM often felt like he had no respect for him. The owner would not give him a new deal, even though he was so severely underpaid for seven of his

eight years, go look at Michael Jordan's life. He then breaks his foot. Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player ever. He fought with the pistons. He fought with his GM. He fought with his owner. He fought with his body. He fought with his brother. He fought with his dad. It ain't easy. You want to be great. Stop whining because somebody sent you a mean tweet. It's hard. Michael Jordan's whole career. Why he's so hard? Why he's so tough?

Because it was rough. It was rough for him. Think about being as good looking as him, as fashionable as him, as smart as him, as great as him. He's still. He signed a bad early contract. The owner was no is in his corner. The GM was the worst. Thank God Phil Jackson showed up.

Or maybe he goes through seven coaches. Doug Collins he fought with. You haven't seen a lot of that yet. The high school stuff, his brother, his dad. I mean, thank God for MJ's mom. I mean, he didn't get a lot of love from the boys of the family. So this idea that we're all freaking out now, because somebody said something on Twitter,

and I just can't. That's why guys like me laugh at all the people that get worked up on Twitter. Life's hard. Deal with it. Nobody wants your sob story. It's hard. I mean, Michael Jordan walked into the NBA, and he walks into a room. This is where he started laughing last night.

It was good to see Michael Jordan laugh. Like he had a guttural laugh. And he was told by the documentary makers, he's like, a good team. He inherited a team that wasn't as popular as the local soccer team with a bunch of Cokeheads. And a GM that was a baseball scout. That's his road. And he got the living, you know what, kicked out of him by the pistons, by the riffs, by the Celtics.

That's why he's great. He's not great despite that. He's great because of that. Just Michael Jordan is tough. And you know what? You saw that letter he sent his mom. He's a great kid. But Michael Jordan was about winning because he had the deal.

with nonsense, his entire life. And so in the end, you were either about winning or you had no value to him. And I found Michael incredibly likable last night. He was worried about not being like, I've never liked Michael Jordan more than I liked him last night. I thought he was fantastic. He didn't have any time for nonsense. Because you know what? Some of his childhood was nonsense.

Some, I mean, good God. We think people complain if they don't get this perfect linear path. That's not the way life works. That's not the way life works. I'm not analogous to Michael. I'm the luckiest guy in the world. God. I've gotten chairs thrown at me.

You don't get a job at the big network. It's hard. There's a lot of sucky days out there. Deal with it. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd. Weekdays at noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsClice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience

in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it,

and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliver Show, I'm bringing you.

conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42.

Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. Ramos sending on to Ernie Stewart for Chip.

I'm Tad Ramos. I'm Tom Boe. On our podcast, inside American soccer, you'll get the real storylines. I'm not worried about Policic. I'm not worried about balligan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back.

The biggest decisions. If you're going to look at stats and numbers, he has no shot at making this. World Cup team. And the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tabramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. I really like the documentary. There's a couple of reasons.

Because for me and people that grew up with it, it's just great to go back down, Marine Lane. It's really fun. A lot of the stories I know, a couple of them I didn't, but it's fun. I also think it's really cool. John Goulais tell me this morning, younger people are like, yeah, I didn't know half of this stuff. I just knew they were great. So it's really cool. Like we're all collectively, I'm reminiscing younger people are seeing stuff for the first time. I think it's a really communal experience that we're all enjoying. And I will say this. There is, we tend to, you know, It's, we tend to create sort of, we romanticize the past a little bit too much. The guys in the old days, they all hated each other, and guys today are now all friends.

Oh, really? So Danny Aange and Michael Jordan are golfing on a day off. The star of the Bulls and a star of the Celtics are golfing. During the playoff series. Yeah, they didn't hate each other. Magic and Bird, really close friends. By the way, Magic and Isaiah for years, really close friends. First of all, a lot of guys back then, they played cards, they golfed, they had fun, they chased it, they drank, they smoke cigars together, offseason, and probably in season.

The difference is this. Today's players are all paid well. The salary cap used to be closer to $25 million. Now it's well over $100. It'll be $200 million in five, six, seven years. The bottom line now when you sit down at the dinner table, anybody listening to my show that grew up in a big family, and maybe you grew up in a big family and your folks didn't have a ton of money,

and, you know, they'd hand out dinner and you were sitting there saying, I got to get a roll. Because if I don't fight for the roll, I'm not getting a roll, and there's seven kids, and I want to make sure I get that pork chop. And, oh, that pie, I got to fight for my legitimate piece of the pie. That used to be the old NBA. I mean, Michael Jordan was underpaid for seven years. Scotty was underpaid.

The stars were underpaid on the dynasty. You were wins equaled revenue. Everybody was fighting for a very small financial pie. Now, Otto Porter's rich. Everybody's rich. We're paying $20 million a year for guys. And so everybody gets a second dessert. Everybody gets a third roll.

Everybody gets a fourth piece of meatloaf. So it's not as desperate. You know, in life, if everybody gets a little more comfortable financially, there's not quite as much that doesn't mean they're not competitive but there's not quite as much desperation and so the players today if you put Michael

and Scotty and Scotty was making 27 million a year not 2.2 million a year you know what he wouldn't have been so angry at the GM he may not have liked him but there wouldn't be this and guys are different than women sometimes on this we're all about the respect and are we being shown love

and our egos you know I get it but it's just a different world. A lot of guys back then got along. And by the way, you think Patrick Beverly's buddies now with rivals? You think Rondo is? I mean, seriously, you think Kauai wants to be buddies? Yonis is like, I don't want to be buddies with anybody. Blake Griffin doesn't get along with players. There's all sorts of guys in the NBA that do not want to buddy buddy. Westbrook says his best friends, the ball. Their teammates he won't talk to. So this idea that current players are all softies and old guys are all tough.

You know, it was a different world. A lot of friends back then. A lot of guys that don't want to talk to other guys now. Want more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart radio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. All right, Colin right, calling wrong.

I make a lot of mistakes throughout the course of a week and let me call myself out a few times. Here we go. Where Colin was right? Listen, people love super teams. This has been my mantra for 20 years. When I first got my job at the other place, Remember one of my first days I said, you know, all these guys that say they love underdogs,

why don't you watch them? The even snarky Twitter last night fell in love with Michael Jordan. There's a reason we like the Avengers. There's a reason people go to Coachella. We like when you get stars all together and they're fascinating and you get the glamour and the great and the egos. It's fun. Hard work is great.

I don't want to watch it. I want to watch stardom and glamour. and the 30 for 30 had all that. Where Colin was wrong. I love Tua. I think he's great. But now Peter King, Albert Breer, and Peter Schrager are all saying he could fall in the draft. Listen, we know the injury thing.

I still contend he's a rare talent, and I would roll the dice on the injury if I'm like a Miami and I've got 13 picks. I could draft two quarterbacks, or I'm a Chargers where I've got a roster that could withstand a pick that doesn't pan out. But, you know, listen, the Wonderlich score was lower.

than you love. It's not, I mean, you know, Phil Sims had a bad one. It's not the end of the world. Everything is something. But the stories this morning, he's dropping a little. Where Colin was right? Carolina signed Christian McCaffrey to a monster deal last week. And did you hear what Matt Rule said?

His quotes were very telling. We want football guy first, focused guy, true leader guy. It didn't have to say that. It's like when Tom Brady left New England. He said Tampa showed him warmth. Hmm, who is he taking a shot at, Belichick? The reality is, Cam is what I thought he was. Talented, but a lot of drama and distracted.

And Matt Ruhl made a point of saying it last week in his way. Where Colin was wrong. OBJ is not going to Minnesota. Now, my sources told me the same thing. But I did get very excited for about two hours because I've been told OBJ is putting on a good face, but Cleveland's not where he wants to be. ideally. But I got to take a wrong here because I went crazy for about 15 minutes to start my show.

And I do think Minnesota is a good fit for OBJ for the Vikings. And actually benefits Baker and the Browns that can get more focused on all the elements they already have. How many mouths do you want Baker Mayfield to have to feed? But I'll take a wrong on that. Where Colin was right. Jim Kelly, Hall of Fame quarterback said last week in a quote, he said, I watch all these young quarterbacks in the AFC. And it reminds me of the days when it was me and all the legends like Marino and me and all going up against Elway. And thank you, Jim Kelly. Again, we romanticize the past.

There has never been a time in my life where fewer teams had bad quarterbacks and more team had franchise quarterbacks. And they're different. Lamar can run and throw. Patrick's got a great arm. So does Aaron. Kyler Murray. Russell Wilson's a little smaller than you'd like.

All shapes and sizes. Big Ben's old, big and gets hurt, but he's great. And Brady's old and not mobile, but he's accurate. We're getting so many different variations. This is the Golden Age of quarterbacks. This now. I've been watching it since 1972. This is the best.

The quarterback position has ever been in my life right now. And Jim Kelly acknowledged it. Where Colin was wrong. We're all going to take a collective wrong on this. That we always think that LeBron James is looking at Michael and he's got Michael in his head. Well, that's funny. The producers of this now acknowledging that Michael Jordan was willing to do this documentary after LeBron James came back to beat the Warriors and was holding a trophy in Cleveland,

and people started talking about, you know, LeBron may be better than Michael Jordan. And suddenly, what do you know? Michael was like, you know, those old tapes I said you could never run. You can run them now. Don't kid yourself. Michael's like the rest of us. He's human. He doesn't want his legacy dipping.

It's not good for his shoe brand. It's not good for him, right? We're all wrong on that one. Where Colin was right. Kirk Cousins this week said, quote, I wouldn't mind playing with no fans if we have to. I'd welcome it. Yeah, that's because no fans equals less pressure and no critics.

Inadvertedly, Kirk Cousins acknowledged what we've been saying is he doesn't like the pressure. I mean, how in the world does he go 0 and 9 on Monday night football? He wins 65% of his games. And Monday night football is not flex scheduling. It's not like Sunday night football. If you were O'NNine and Sunday night football, you could say, yeah, you always get in the big marquee games against the best teams. On Monday night football, he's been the favorite and lost multiple times. He didn't mean to acknowledge it, but the greats don't want to play in an empty stadium.

LeBron's like, I won't play if there's no fans. Kirk Cousins is, I'd welcome it. Kind of acknowledging what we've said. He doesn't like the heat. where Colin was wrong. I just don't get this. The NBA's new model going forward is, let's take anonymous high school players to most,

put them in an anonymous minor league system, and then put them on a bad team. The only reason I know who Zion is is Duke. But Jalen Green chose the D-League over college, and it looks like this is what the NBA wants, to go to Rio Grande, some rural community with a crappy coach for a couple of years. You're going to tell me,

Mike Shashefsky doesn't have value. Now, I think the G-Lees got better players than college basketball, but for six months for the business part of it, Planet Duke, Kansas doesn't have some promotional value? Isn't that how Zion got a shoe contract? You'll make it up. I don't get it.

Where Colin was right? LeBron currently with his uninterrupted Spring Hill Entertainment business, now has efficiently 23 things you can watch on 14 different platforms. We predicted LeBron would go to the Lakers over Philadelphia that had a much better roster and over Houston that had a better roster. Why?

As we call it, the mogul stage. There's the show off stage, accumulate title stage, and then the mogul stage. You cannot do what LeBron is done in Philadelphia. 23 shows on 14 platforms. He came here for basketball, two, and business. Where Colin was wrong. I don't like teams signing long contracts in sports. I think it just doesn't make any sense.

First of all, a guy can get hurt. Second of all, you know, a lot of guys, you give them a 10-year deal, eight-year deal, they lose their passion. Number three, how do you know what a player is going to be eight years from now? Some deteriorate. Some guys are late bloomers, some early bloomers. But I will say this after watching the Last Dance documentary. Michael had an eight-year deal.

Pippen had a seven-year deal. They were very team beneficial. I mean, for about seven years, that organization made so much money and was paying the best duo in league history, you know, nickels on the dollar. I don't like long contracts. I think they're awful. If I ever owned a team, I wouldn't want one. But man, those are the two best long contracts in sports history. Where Colin was right?

The Jaguars want to trade Leonard Fernette. Folks, this is why I say Joe Burroughs good. He's not Trevor Lawrence. Nobody was tanking for Joe Burrow. The Jaguars are not even hiding it now. They made a decision last year with a Jalen Ramsey trade. Once Nick Foles got hurt early, they're like, we can't win with Nick Foles.

We're not going to win with Gardner Minshue. We got to go get Trevor Lawrence. They're not even hiding it now. They're just getting rid of anybody that's any good. Why? You don't do this in the NFL. You do this if you're the Colts and you can see Andrew Luck and you do this if you're the Jags that can see Trevor Lawrence. That speaks volumes about the transformational talent in next year's quarterback class.

These are good prospects. He's an all-time prospect. Colin right, calling wrong. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying,

and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions,

the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast,

Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist. Kier Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns,

Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app.

Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clifford Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Clifford Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio. app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a perimenopausal chin here you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast. How hard can it be with Deanna Maria Riva, where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic BS.

All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own. I was like, what the hell is that? I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that nest was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what sex? Dating at 45. How can it be? Getting naked at 50 with the new guy. That one's kind of hard.

Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears or tears of laughter, and dive into it, unfiltered and unbothered and ask, how hard can it be? I cannot believe it. I'm about to say this out loud in public. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of My Cultura Podcast Network, available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Ahmad Rashad was not only a notable broadcaster. He was a hell of a football player. Played for a decade in the NFL. It was a Pro Bowl-Bull-level wide receiver for four of those years. And he was drafted. He played at Oregon before they were Oregon. They didn't, wide receivers out of Oregon did not go number-

four in the first round until Amad Rashad. All you guys know the snazzy uniform Oregon, the Phil Knight, Oregon. He was great before that at Oregon. And he is now the NBA ambassador for the commissioner. He did that show for years. A lot of us watched NBA Inside Stuff. And when I watched them on NBC, he was Jordan's guy. And he took some heat for that.

But in the end, he gave me information. I didn't get anywhere else. And I loved it. And Amad is joining us. First of all, thank you. You're a busy guy. guy and I appreciate you coming on my show. Oh, Gillon. How are you doing, man? Very nice to be here. Thanks for having it

coming me on. I'm not that busy right now. So what is your earliest memory of Michael Jordan, seeing him or meeting him? It goes back. The first time I saw Michael Jordan and started to follow him, John McEnroe was a huge fan, huge, huge fan. I was living in New York, and John is the one that turned me on to him. It's like, hey, you've got to see this guy from North Carolina. He's absolutely great. Unbelievable. You've got to see him. So from that point on, that was like in 1988, 83, 283, somewhere around there. From then, we started watching him all the time, and John and I would watch him, both be

watching, you know, from either at home or together watching Michael do his thing. And that's how I first sort of knew, you know, all about him, and how great of a player that he was. And then, you know, obviously the 84 Olympics was another time that I saw him again. And I'd never met him until NBC got basketball. It got basketball, I believe, in 1989 or 1990. Yeah. One of the other.

And in the summertime, Magic Johnson used to have this game called a mid-summer night's dream. And it was back in the day when all the players, all the stars from around the league, would come out to L.A. and they would play in an all-star game. And it was an all-star game, which was pretty competitive. You know, guys were, it was about reputations and about who was this and who was that. And so for NBC to sort of kick off their basketball thing, we showed that on television. We went out there to do that.

It was our new team, and it was the first time I had sort of been at a game like this as a reporter. And Michael and I met then, and we just sort of hit it off. We exchanged numbers, and from that day forward, shoot, we talk probably, you know, every week, just about every kind of thing. We just became really, really good friends. And as it so happened, I ended up doing basketball on NBC and the game of the week. And, you know, every game of the week seemed to be the Chicago Bulls. And my job was the interview to start a game, and the start of the game was always Michael. You know, Ahmad, it is, again, I'm old enough.

to, you know, I've been doing this long enough that I watched the whole Michael thing. I lived through it. And, but I didn't get, I only saw a half a dozen times having covered him live or in a game. The stardom, women swooned, the fashion industry, Wall Street, Middle America. Can you take me back to a moment where, and you've been around athletes your whole life, that you were with Michael in a semi-private situation and it, really hit you. I'm with Muhammad Ali. I'm with Pele.

I'm with the biggest star in the world, period. It may not even be sports. I don't know if you ever felt, I don't think I ever felt that. You know, I knew, you sort of knew what it was, but from the inside of it, it doesn't feel like that.

Yeah. You know, he's just, he's just Michael, you know, who happens to play basketball. And I was just DeMah, who happened to play football. So it wasn't like, wow, this is, but There were certain things that would certainly throw you back. I mean, the fact of to watch, you couldn't go anywhere. Like, we never go to a store or you never go to a mall.

You couldn't go. And those things are people who just follow you forever. I think the one thing I remember is one time when we're in Terrace is that we had a car and we're going to get some cigars in a cigar store. And we must have had, I don't know, 10, 12 police cars in the front and in the back. And everywhere we went, the guy would drive up on the sidewalk so that when we got out of out of the van, it was like two steps to the door of the building where we were going in. And then by the time we come out, there was hundreds of people surrounding everywhere.

That was the biggest one. But there were scenes like that, you know, throughout the NBA here. I remember in Miami, you know, coming out of a hotel and just having people as far as you could see them. So it was not only was he like the greatest player, but their team was the greatest team. There was a lot going on with that team. You know, and I used to, I used to sort of say, you know, it was like the Beatles. But then I'd have people go, who's the Beatles? It's like, you know, that's the end of that.

I can't even explain it. And these guys are like the Beatles. Like, well, who was the Beatles? When, you know, it's funny. I know Kobe. When I watch Kobe, he was doing a, he was clearly inspired by Michael. Yes. Who inspired Michael?

Was it like a David Thompson, I remember? Or did he ever talk to that kind of stuff about you? Yeah. David Thompson was one. And the other one, geez, I can't remember saying played for Denver. Played for before David Thompson. There was two guys that he, when you, if I could think of their names, and you watched the way Michael played, you realize that is where his whole thing came from.

I don't know. If I think of it, I'll call you back. But one of them was David Thompson. One was David Thompson. And the other guy was, oh, shoot. Well, it wasn't Alex English because he didn't jump much. So I doubt it was Alex English. Who's supposed to be a great guy, but was not a very vertical player.

No, not at all. Amad Rashad is joining us. Listen, a lot of people speculate that Michael was willing to do this. because, you know, LeBron's getting all this love. And, you know, Michael's got a massive shoe brand. And he doesn't want that brand dinged at all. And it's still the biggest selling shoe in basketball by far. Do you buy the reports that Michael kind of watched LeBron win,

beat the Warriors and thought, you know what, I'm going to give people a little, let's get, let's give him a little bit of my life again. I wouldn't fault him for it, but do you buy those reports? Tell him, not at all. not even the That's the furthest thing from his mind. His whole attitude about this whole thing is, you know what, I did what I did,

and there it is you can decide whatever you want where that stands. I don't think he has any sort of, there's no competitive feeling in him about, you know, who was better and there's no competition between him and LeBron, none whatsoever. You mean, you can't draw him into any sort of conversation like that. The way he comes back and says, you know what, you can't compare errors, is if there's no way that you can't

you can't. You can't compare errors and you can't. And he said, plus, we're never going to play one-on-one. So what is it just a sports conversation about, you know, one person saying, this guy was the greatest, the other person saying that guy was the greatest, but that's what sports is all about. Remember back in the day when you go and all you have your buddies and you'd have your favorite player,

he'd have his favorite player, and you'd have these wonderful arguments about who's the best and who's not the best. But Michael, once he finished playing, that whole basketball thing is gone. I don't think that even, that conversation would never even happen. It was like, whoa, somebody's gaining on where he's getting too much thing.

Let me put this thing out. I think that there was enough time, even when he decided to let the NBA follow him during that last year, there was no plan of ever letting this tape out. It's just something he was going to be able to have, and you could do whatever you want with it. And enough time went by, I guess, that he just kind of went, you know, let's do it and see what it is. That's awesome. You're going to just see it. But it wasn't in any sort of competitive way.

Let me show you who I was. His whole thing is like, hey, you saw who I was, and that's what I was, and this is what I am now. So, no, there's no competition on that. I don't think there's any looking back and, you know, trying to prove who's better than who and any of that kind of stuff. I think that's just for a bar conversation that people can say things like that. But I can say for a fact that that's not the reason why you let that take out. Rashad joining us, friends of Michael, the former Pro Bowl wide receiver, a very notable 10-year career, also now NBA ambassador for the commissioner, Adam Silver.

You know, I was struck when you watch Michael. You know, I think sometimes we forget how hard the road was. The fights with his brother, his relationship with his dad, cut in high school, the injury broke his foot, getting knocked to the ground, having to deal with multiple coaches. You know, like there's, I understand the reservoir of, not animosity, but the chip on the shoulder. When you first met him, had he eclipsed that or was he still going through that sort of, I'm going to prove the world they don't want to mess with me. Who was the Jordan you met? That one.

And I think he's been that one for quite some time. And I think that's something that cannot be coached. and he's not the only person that, I think if you talk to Magic Johnson or Larry Bird or Kareem or Dennis Rodman for that matter, and talk about there was always a place where they could go to be somebody. You know, whatever that was going on in your life and whatever was going the other way, it was a basketball court to go to to prove who you were. Now, some guys, you know, had that competitive spirit that they were going to go, I'm going to show you I'm the best, you know, there is.

other guys is like, I'm the best today. You know, but great ones are, I'm the best all the time. You know, there's something that you just can't teach. It's Michael had that put your foot on their throat. Kobe had that put your foot on their throat. So there were a lot of guys that were just different. They weren't just great, but they also had that killer instinct. You know, that they were competitive about everything.

And Michael has been competitive about everything. He hates to lose to me in golf, probably as much as he hates to losing it in anything. So it's, but it's, you know, it's just the way, it's people's makeup, you know, and I guess you can have it at all single level. There's probably a lot of guys that hate to lose, but they do anyway. And then there's certain guys that hate to lose, and they vary sales and do lose. You know, I found, a commitment there. Yeah, I found Michael incredibly likable last night.

I loved when he was laughing, when his mom was reading the letter, and it was really a joyful laugh. I laughed when he was told that the bulls, when he joined the team were called the traveling cocaine circus, and he just belly laughed. You get to see Michael. I get the intense Michael. I get the regal Michael. But he

really was easy to laugh. I found that such a likable quality, and that's probably the Michael you see. Wasn't that great, Colin, if you're able to see that? Yes. Now, what this film does is that

you see Michael. That's him. That's him. And before that you never saw that he never let you see that yep he you know he let you see he was a two three feet away from you you never got to get inside that i mean just anybody out there but for this and i think that he's also feels like this is the first time that people every fans everywhere are like a fly in the wall to see him as he really is and that's you know that's a little uncomfortable right but it is what it is what it is and i think that's the beauty in this this documentary is You get to see the sacrifices.

You get to see the guy reacting like a normal person. Before you never saw that. Yeah. He didn't never let you see that. Yeah. Now it's like, hey, man, I'm happy in my life. I've done whatever I've tried to do. I'm moving forward with everything else I'm doing.

So it's kind of fun to look back at this and see that. You know what? I was like everybody else. Yeah. But I was just committed, committed to try to be in the best that could possibly be. And as far as I'm concerned, he's the most committed person I've ever seen. we would, here's an example. We would, after every game during the finals,

there was a bunch of us that were sort of hang out. It was like Howard White, Clint Buckner, and myself, and Michael. We'd get a room with those smoke cigars and talk about the game from the dinner that started to an end. And we'd be up to talking and just talking and this happening and now happening and what about this and all that, till like three, four o'clock in the morning. Wow.

At six o'clock in the morning, Michael was in the gym. Never missing. Never missing. That's amazing. Real pleasure for me, Amad. Yeah, I just found Michael so likable, and it was so nice to see him laugh. And I just can't wait to watch the remaining eight episodes. Amad, thanks for coming on our show today. I appreciate it, man. You are very, very welcome.

And, you know, you're from Tacoma. You're from Seattle. Yes. Oh, what did you go to high school in Tacoma? stadium? Mount Tahoma. You went to Mount Tahoma. Yeah. And didn't you go to, did you go to Rainer? No, I went to, I went to a very small school on the coast of Washington in a small town that's largely overlooked even on maps. So you went to Mount Tahoma's a real football school. They had, they had some real good teams when I was a kid growing up. What? You tell me where which wasn't in the city? Westport, Washington by Aberdeen. I know where Westport is. I ran try, I ran track. me to Westport before.

And I bet you won them. I bet you did. All right. Thanks, man. You're very welcome. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. And every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

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