The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Best of The Herd for Jan 23, 2020

Episode Date: January 23, 2020

Colin talks about Zion's debut and how it showed that he is a phenom that is different than other players. He has a crazy conspiracy theory about why the Patriots traded Jimmy Garoppolo to the 49ers. Fox Sports Radio's Doug Gottlieb comes in studio and gets into a heated argument with Colin about Zion's debut and if Eli Manning deserves to be in the HOF. Plus, Colin thinks Packers Head Coach Matt LaFleur took a shot at Aaron Rodgers and his criticism is justified. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This is the best of the herd with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio. Ah, here we go on a Thursday, live in Los Angeles. This is The Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, we're on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. One hour from now, Greg Kosell stops by Chris Brouser, checks in on Zion, Doug Gottlie, Peter King today. We've got tomorrow off.

everything we got today. Everything we've got today. Joy Taylor is joining me. Joy, how are you? I'm great. I finished packing for Miami last night. Yeah, I'm done. Very well.

Taking a handbag. I am not taking a handbag. I told you how many shoes I packed. 20 pair of shoes. You know how many I'm packing? Tennis shoes. And then my tennis shoes. That's it.

It's very impressive. All right. All right. So let me just lay it out. I've been saying this since I saw Zion play at Duke. I'm like, this is the next phenom. And there's a lot of critics. Oh, my guy can't shoot.

He's too big. And I say, the only thing I worry about is torque. Is he going to get hurt? But this is what a phenom looked like. And big and strong and powerful. And he got me to college basketball. And college basketball, you know, it's an airport. People land 15 minutes later, they get in a flight and leave.

It's the apartment complex. Nobody really wants to be there. Everybody's trying to transition. That's what college basketball has become. And the NBA is the house. That's where people want to live and be in a neighborhood. grow old. And so I look at Zion, and to me it was an obvious thing. That's what a phenom looks like. The smile, the game, the power. And last night, you saw all of it. You saw the size, the burst.

You heard the MVP chance. 17 points. The burst in the fourth. Even a little controversy, they pulled him out. You saw a kid, that's what a phenom looks like when a phenom is not in good shape. He's not in great shape right now. It was a dud in the first half. He looked tired. He was passive. The game was fast, but phenoms pick up on it very, very quickly. He is a better shooter than Blake Griffin will ever be. He is stronger than Charles Barkley, and he is faster than Carl Malone. Five or six NBA players in my life, and I've been watching this league for 50, 40 years. I'm talking about the highly skilled guys, not Ben Wallace. There's been five or six highly skilled guys that just look different. Shaq, Barclay, LeBron, Carl Malone, and Zion. Zion doesn't even

look like an NBA body. You know how I say Odell Beckham's the first NBA guy in the NFL? Zion's one of the few NFL guys in the NBA. He's running up the court. He doesn't look like a tight end. He looks like a defensive tackle. And in a league now that is three ball-centric, very finesse, can't touch anybody, a lot of skinny 219-pound centers, and guys who can shoot threes, he is going to bully his

way to 24 a night. Never forget this about LeBron James. LeBron's first five years in the league, I remember going on the air and saying, I know he's great, but he bores me. It's just a freight train. He's running over everybody. Then he developed an inside game after being humiliated against the Mavericks and the championship. Then he developed a three-point game. He's always been a good distributor.

But Zion Williamson, that is what a phenom looks like. The criticisms were silly. Well, I don't know about he's never going to be able to shoot. He doesn't need to be a great shooter to get 24 a night and sell tickets. He looks different. And sometimes you just have to not outthink the room. First of all, he's like, what, 19? Were you refined at 19?

I didn't really think I was a good broadcaster until about 33. At 19, he's going to be a totally refined basketball player. LeBron's the best high school player ever, and it took him about six years where you were like, yeah, he's close, but he still has to get an inside game. Of course he doesn't have it all buttoned up yet. The other thing is his shot wasn't broken. It just needed to be tweaked. Ben Simmons shot, Markell Fult shot, Russell Westbrook shot, those are broken shots, Derek

Rose's shot. This was just the jumper that needed to be tweaked. Even Ray Allen came into the league and wasn't a dead-eye three shooter. Ray Allen was athletic and became a great three-point shooter. Shooting's the one thing I almost always, almost always feel can be tweaked. But don't outthink the room. Sometimes there's a physical element to you that signals a star. Tyreek Hill of the Kansas City Chiefs, he's just too damn fast to cover.

it's going to work if you give him a decent quarterback. Don't outthink the room. You can't keep up with him. Dion Sanders, he's just too fast. Zion's just too big. In a league now with no power forwards, 224-pound centers, and a bunch of guys, lanky guys who can hit threes. The power forward's basically gone.

I mean, to me, Zion's a center. He's a small ball lineup center. If Kvon Luni had that talent, he could go to the Warriors. You put him in with Clay and Steph and Draymond and Zion's your center. That's what he looks like in today's modern NBA. So you saw it all. He was a B-12 shot to the NBA last night.

The NBA has been sagging. There's not a lot of urgency. You know, LeBron's in his 17th year. It looks like the two L.A teams are way better than everybody else. He is exactly what the NBA needs. By the way, here's how big of a phenom he is. And sometimes I always used to use the rule with my late mother, Patricia. The difference between a star and a superstar is my mom knows superstars.

My mom didn't know who Derek Jeter was. She knew who Arod was. My mom didn't know who Scotty Pippen was. She knew who MJ was. Okay, my mom doesn't know a million comedians. She knows who Ellen is. She knows who Seinfeld was. Okay, Zion's going to be a superstar.

And it's not just going to be his average and his stats. John Morant's going to be a star. He's getting close to being one. This is what a phenom is. about. Literally taking your breath away, looks different than everybody else, the smile, the sound afterwards, here's I on. It was everything I dreamed of except for the losing part. The energy the crowd brought, the energy the city brought. It was electric, and I'm just grateful that they did that. So

it was a dream come true to finally get out there, but at the end of the day, I didn't want to win. So I just got to look at the next game. I also think he's incredibly likable. And if you look at the history of really big superstars in America, Magic was likable and Brett Farv was likable. Jeff Gordon, the NASCAR guy, was likable. There's a likability about him. You just want to put your arms around him if you could,

except you can't because he's a tank. But there's a real decency. I don't want to get too melodramatic. but there's just certain players I root for. He's an easy kid to root for. I said, four, Westbrook's talented. I can't root for him. Aaron Rogers is talented.

It's hard to root for him. Zion's easy to root for. So I just couldn't have been happier last night. All right, I am not, let me just say this. Shift gears. I am not a conspiracy theorist. When I used to do just a radio show, by the way, if you didn't hear it, it was spectacular. Anyway, I took a bunch of phone calls, and the only thing I would not allow

Goulet is my witnesses, no conspiracy theory guy. I'm not interested in your crazy town nonsense. Every sports fans got conspiracy theories, and they're all nonsense. But since it's my show, I can occasionally throw one out. So there's a story that came out. It kind of reveals Bill Belichick, smartest best football coach ever. He knows the cap. He knows personnel.

He knows coaching. He knows game preparing. basically gave the 49ers, gave them a star quarterback for a second round pick. Now, I've always had this theory is that smart guys don't get dumb. Like when a smart guy, like Phil Jackson's a brilliant coach and, you know, if he played dumb, I wasn't criticizing the refs and manipulating the officials. Phil Jackson used to manipulate the refs like nobody's business. He would rip them after a game and just to manipulate him for the next game.

And it's like he would play dumb. and I'm like, Phil, you're too smart to play dumb. So Belichick's a brilliant guy. Why would he give a quarterback that he knew was going to be great away for a second round pick? Jimmy Garoppolo's in the Super Bowl. Here's always been my theory. Belichick now, it's all about legacy. He's got his millions.

He's got his trophies. He's the best football coach ever. That doesn't mean he doesn't want to polish up his legacy. When he's gone, there's always been this Brady led the dynasty. No, it's Belichick. You can't win without Brady, can't win without Belichick. Hey, Belichick got fired without Brady. Well, Belichick did win 11 games the year Brady got hurt.

So it's not defined yet. Why would he give Garoppolo away? All right, John, crazy conspiracy theory music. The reason he gave him away is he gave him to the best young football coach in America, Kyle Shanahan, knowing... Remember, Bill always had control of the Patriots. He knew, I'm not going to give him to some hack. I want to prove my point here. So he gives him away to Kyle Shanahan knowing nobody will get more out of Garapolo than

Kyle Shanahan. And then he didn't demand more picks because why would he? I'm not going to take away the potential to get a Nick Bosa, McGlenshy, the right tackle. I'm not going to deplete the Niners roster. I'm going to give him Garapolo for one pick. don't have to give up multiple picks to me. They don't have to give up multiple players. I'm going to ensure Garapolo is successful and send them to the other conference.

If I have to face him, it's at least in the Super Bowl. Will I trust me over any young coach? What does this do? 20 years from now, people can say, Belichick wanted Garapolo. By the way, why did the story ever leak? You know Brady's side didn't leak this. Brady didn't leak it. His side didn't leak it, his agent didn't leak it.

Why did the story leak that Belichick wanted Garapolo and was forced to trade him? That actually helps Belichick. It proves Belichick was ready to move on. And so 20 years from now, if Garopolo's got four Super Bowls, three Super Bowls, people will say they could have done that in New England, but Brady wanted him out. I really believe, and I'm not a conspiracy guy. But why would Belichick give the Niners a quarterback to the best offensive coach in football, the young guy, and not demand picksback?

He wanted to ensure Garoppolo's excellence to prove a point. I wanted to move off. This was my guy. And he's going to ensure that he's great. Nobody is happier in the world that Garapolo is in a Super Bowl than Bill Belichick. Bill would love to be facing him. But nobody is happier in the world other than the Shanahan family that Garapolo's in than Balichick because it proves Bill right.

Bill had his guy. Bill wanted to go. Bill wasn't allowed to. Bill had to trade him. So he was going to guarantee Garopolo worked. I'm trading you to the best young coach. And I'm not asking anything in return that will disrupt your potential dynasty. Is that crazy?

Do you guys think I'm nuts on that? Well, I am crazy and I totally agree. So I don't know what that says. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

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And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok Podcast Network. on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth,

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the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite as part of the Mike Coutura Podcast Network available on the I-Fart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Bring you in the Dougger, Doug Gottlieb show after ours, Fox Sports Radio. First half for Zion was Dudge City.

I heard you are not impressed with Zion even that amazing fourth quarter burst. Well, I thought last night was a Roershack test, right? Where, you know, like the zinc blocks, where you see what you want to see. For you, you want to see something spectacular. And I want a spectacle. 13 consecutive points was pretty amazing.

Right. But how do you look? First half, he looked tired and out of shape. Yes. And what did he do when he scored those 13 points to make you think otherwise? They were wide open. They had to play him at center, which I do think is going to be a big part of his future. Had a play him at center. And the San Antonio Spurs dared him to make jump shots.

They did not guard him on three of the shots. And then Lamarcus Aldrich challenged the fourth one. So, like, look, that's what you do when you're rehab. having, by the way. That's the one thing you can do almost the entire time, which is catch and shoot jump shots. And if he can make threes on a regular basis, he becomes a very dynamic player. But let's not kid ourselves. He looked out of shape. He was sloppy. It's very, it's understandable in your first NBA game to be forcing things, but it was the way in which he just kind of lost the ball and just kind of flopped around out there. He is 19, though. I understand, but you would think,

you would think that the Pelicans, and I'm sure they did this, held him. out a lot longer they needed to hold him out to make sure he was ready yeah right he was fresh he was sharp they put him through hard workouts he did not appear to have the wind i understand there's game speed and basketball conditioning and you can't get it unless you actually playing games but he didn't have any wind he his body didn't look sharp let me ask you this zion williams you're looking at the box score no no no i'm not in the world's greatest basketball league there's really no second scored 17 straight points as a 19 year old. Okay. That's insane.

No, look, I mean, there's a reason he was the number one pick, right? Like, we all thought he was going to be good, and he did, he made jump shots, which is, you know, the second weakest part of his game. The weakest part of his game is the ability to stop and shoot the basketball. He did, he shot catch and shoot last year. He never

stops and shoots the ball. You know, no mid-range game, but that can develop over time. Um, but again, like, don't look at the, don't, this, this happens with fans, especially. Sometimes it happens with coaches. where they mistaken made shots for good basketball. He didn't look great.

Look, making shots and just his mere presence energized the entire league, definitely the New Orleans Pelicans last night. When he wasn't playing, it wasn't playing well in the first half. It was like a funeral. And it was like a party in the fourth quarter. But like, don't kid yourself. He didn't look good even though he made shots. I'm not into the looking good.

There's not nine guys in the NBA currently that can score 17 consecutive points. What are you talking about? Name him. I mean, look at what Russell Westbrook has done recently, what Tray Young has done, what John Rand can do, Rob, James, Anthony Davis. Of course they can. If somebody's going to leave any of these guys wide open four straight times down the floor, that's what the Spurs did. They left him, they dared him.

They guarded him like people used to guard me. Go ahead, shoot the ball. Doug. And he made four. Russell's shooting 36 percent. They are leaving over. He can't score 17 straight. Listen, you're doing what people did after Yannis hit five threes against the Lakers.

You're like, see, Janus can make threes. No, he can't. Look at the rest of the season. No. You saw it outlier. I'm looking at Janus going. What is the fear with Zion Williams? What is the only thing?

Torque. Huh? Torque. Because of what? He plays with a violence to his body that's unprecedented. Yes. And he's carrying too much weight. I think he's big.

Okay. Shack is big. Okay. So did anything he did last night lead you to believe? Because that's my only fear. Like, look, I know the kid can play. When I listen to a better and better. And I listened to Nick Wright on this network.

I had to choose Nick Wright. He was going to go to ESPN. Yeah. I listened to 90 seconds. I didn't need his show. I didn't. But if you watch the 90 seconds in the first half, you're like, man, that kid looks like he's going to hurt himself. Give me Nick's best 90.

And I said, kid, he was a fan. I said, get over here. I don't need anything. I just need three minutes. And I'm like, a 19-year-old took over an NBA game. Yeah. 90% of this league can't score back to, I mean, there's a lot of, that's not true. There's a lot of God.

Colin, I love you. It's not true. No, Dukers have two guys. Name a Laker outside of LeBron that create shots for others. I mean, legitimately, the other night, LeBron played poorly. They didn't have a player. That is a, that is a non sequitur. Was he creating a shot?

Do I think, do I think Zion can create shots? Yes. Okay, but that's not what you said. You just said he scored 17 a row. Can Kuzma can score 17 a row? Anthony Davidson score 17 row. You leave those dudes open four times in a row. Those are Hall of Famers.

He did it at 19. They didn't guard him, Colin. They dared him to shoot. Right? Like, he was open for a reason. So your argument is he's, I should take nothing out of that three-minute stretch. That it appears as though he's worked diligently on his jump shot, which is what he should work on while he's rehabbing. That's what you can do even before they let you run around and move laterly.

He should be in the gym. him every day, getting a thousand up, where if he can make that shot, like, look, he translates into a much more athletic, Draymond Green, right? That's the weapon that we saw. I think he's way better than Draymond Green. I understand, but it's what he can do. He's a, he's a power forward at six, five and a half, six, six, okay, who can play center and can guard all, potentially all five positions. Yeah. The problem becomes, if he continues to carry this weight, there's a likelihood there of injury. How do I know this? You got hurt at Duke? He got hurt in the summer league.

He got hurt in the day. I'm not denying. And he didn't look. That's the only fear. No one said he can't play. Why did American Idol have 40 second auditions? You can spot talent instantly. Again, but did you watch the first 40?

What the context? You watched the fourth quarter. If you watched the first and second, third quarter, you're like me. I'm a little concerned. Let me ask you. What defines Michael's career, the first of the fourth? What defines NBA careers? It ain't the first.

Not against the San Antonio Spurs. On a Wednesday night. He was a best player on a floor with a bunch of NBA dudes. Look, I love you. Okay. But you have to take context in. He made shots last night. These two things can both be true.

He cannot look like he's in great shape. And you can still have a major concern about injury of any kind because of the torque and the weight and being a little bit sloppy looking. And he can make shots and have the ability to – One of the things that's underrated is, he does have the ability to deliver on the billing. It took him a long time. It's his first game.

He's got to settle down. You're in impeccable shape. Impeccable shape. Couldn't make the league. He's in terrible shape. And was the best player on the floor at 19 in the fourth quarter. Again, he's in terrible shape. You're putting together that he made shots with he was the best player.

No. Those two things are not the same. This is a score of the ball league. You've got a score to win. Yeah. I've heard some make or miss league. I've heard a lot of different things. You put the ball in the back.

basket, you end up with wins. You do. Generally, the team that has more points always... He puts 17 straight points in the basket. Okay. So, Janus can shoot based upon if you watch the Laker Games. And Zion Williams is going to be a dead-eye three-point shooter. Janus is great.

It was very easy to see about your three in the league. You're like, holy crap. Look, I think he's going to be very, very good. And I would have taken him number one for all the reasons that the Pelicans took him, even though everybody knew John Morant has a chance to be a superstar. On the other hand, I'd just be concerned if I'm New Orleans. We spent months rehabbing, teaching him how to walk, right? That's what they did.

Teach him how to run. So he doesn't put as much pressure on the outside of his foot on those ligaments and tendons. And when he stepped on the floor athletically, he still looks sloppy. And I was surprised by that. Yeah. Don't get me wrong. I am, I watched it last night holding my breath. I mean, I literally watched it.

Like, I was nervous watching him play. Yes. I was like, just don't rip an ankle up. And the whole night, even in the fore. I'm like, all right, kid, just get in, get out, play four minutes, let's go. Doug Gottliebudger joining us. We talk Zion. Disagree totally on that.

Let's get to Ha-a-a. My argument about Hall of Fame is there's a lot of doors to get in. BGIO as a compiler gets in. Sandy Kofax was literally great for five years. That's it, gets in. Casey Jones averaged seven a game, eight titles in. Charles Barkley, some of it was flamboyance, personality, had one really great playoff run, wasn't known as a good defender or a hard worker, but Charles

gets in because he's, by the way, Carl Malone? Look, Carmelon's second all time in scoring, I believe. Okay. And Charles Barker was the best power forward in the league for a good five to ten year stretch, right? He was. So, look, the issue with Hall of Fames is that we have opened up to the Hall of Good.

Sandy Kofax was the best pitcher in the league. Period. Stop. Four or five years. He's a Hall of Famer. You know, the issue with the Bigios are he was good at everything he did and he played for a long time. Right.

And that's kind of. Eli Manning, the only difference is he won two Super Bowls. But how much of when, and look, let's start by saying this. Eli Manning is going to be in the pro football hall of fame. Yes. So this is not a debate whether or not he will be. It's more a question

of, should he be? Because he's Eli, because he won two soup bowls, he did it in New York, he's going to get in. Right. But would you say that your overall record, not in a small sample size of a couple of years, but overall record is at least a fair

indication for what kind of quarterback you are? Yes. Like Philip Rivers, who's drafted the same year, who's had some really lean years and has never had the postseason success of Eli Manning. Better franchise for the last 15 years. Chargers or Giants? Last 15 years.

Well, the Giants, because they won more, they won some Bulls. Okay. You know, Giants. Philip Rivers is 123 and 101. Eli Manning is 117 and 117. Matt Ryan is 109 and 80. 29 and 80. 29 games above 500. Joe Flacco, who everybody thinks stinks. You know, Joe Flacco stinks.

98 and 73 is a starting quarterback. Alex Smith, Captain Checkdown himself, who first seven years was mired in constant change in San Francisco, 94, 66, and 1. So look, he's going to get in because the Super Bowl is that big. Of course. Of course. I mean, Priest Holmes belongs in the Pro Football Hall of Fame

for the same reason as Terrell Davis did. They both basically had three great years. One year where they led the league in rushing. I think they both led the league in touchdowns twice. The difference is Dorell Davis won two Super Bowls. Priest Holmes did not. But he was the best running back in the league. Eli was never a top five quarterback, ever.

And his teams consistently told you as much because the top five quarterbacks generally all win 10, 11 games a year. And otherwise, he wouldn't have a 500 record. And he's played for one of the best organizations in the sport. Well, but again, it's where I don't judge things equally. I think, again, the fourth quarter in the NBA is bigger than first. Yes. Playoffs in Super Bowl are bigger than regular season.

Personality matters. I feel Barclay is more, Barkley is given more to the league than other players who are Carl Malone. Wait, so Eli has a personality? No, no, I'm saying. The Flash in the Pan Super Bowl quarterbacks, like, look, I don't know Doug Williams only did it once, But Doug Williams is not a Hall of Famer. Yeah, but he did it. Joe Flacco has a better career record, won a Super Bowl.

Let's just go to the Super Bowls. You can't tell the Belichick, Brady, New England, Manning, NFL, the catch, Super Bowl. There's nine stories in the NFL Super Bowl, which is by far and away the biggest game. There's nine stories you can't tell without Eli. He is so relevant to the history of the league. But relevance is not a Hall of Famer make. A Hall of Famer should be the best. of the best of the best.

And he was never the best of the best. That should be. We know that writers have voted guys. That's the discussion I'm having. I'm not saying whether he not, he will be. He will be. Because of the you can't tell the story without like, yeah, he threw it up and David Tyree caught it. And there was the Manningham.

Manningham was a great throw. But it followed West Welker's drop, right? And Giselle, I cannot get to do everything. His husband cannot do everything. But he made the throws. He did make the throws. And he was really. But he also gets credit for five.

Like he gets credit for the fires that he started putting out the fires that he started. Well, they win the Super Bowl when you're there, nine and seven. I'll give you an example. You had to go on a road. And by the way, he's only clutch when he wins because all the rest of the years they made the playoffs, they never won a game. The only years they won games when they won Super Bowls. It's the craziest bipolar stats ever. You can be, I'll give you context on Priest Holmes.

Here's a prime example. I probably talked to six different NFL players that say the Kansas City offensive line was not only the best. and it's time. It's the best ever. They also had the best blocking tight end. Hold on. No, no, no, no, no. Hold on. Wait. The Denver Broncos had seven straight thousand yard rushers that were like, I think, seven different guys. With Mike Shanahan. Right.

And Terrell Davis was the running back. He was the best of them. My whole point is context. The Super Bowl defines, I mean, let's be honest. Yes. You have to be Dan Marino to get in without the Super Bowl. The better way, right, because we all look at John Elway and the early Super Bowl's as,

John Elway choking. When the reality of it is, if you take a breath, he elevated a team that was very average, no defense, and somehow they found a way to beat Cleveland twice through miracles. John Elway's greatness got them to a Super Bowl, and then they got exposed in those Super Bowls, right? We do, we overreact to, I mean, Baltimore overreacted with the contract they gave to Joe Flacco. You know, Larry Brown's big contract after he gets a couple, Neil O'Donnell throws him a couple balls, and he wins Super Bowl MVP. We absolutely overreact to the biggest game.

Well, I mean, think about the regular season in the NFL. Belichick experiments with September. You just experiments. Yes. Many coaches, Tony Dungey's a Hall of Fame coach, rested players before the playoffs. We literally have parts of the NFL that we experiment in like the NBA. I mean, it's largely understood, like defensive. I mean, I've talked to scouts about this.

Yeah, you want to evolve until the summer. Tell me the thing that makes you think Aaron Rogers is a bad leader. We don't have time for it. I got a minute and a half left. I'm going to lead with it next hour. It's fascinating. I miss it. Listen to it under the drive.

You don't think Zion or Eli are any good. I had to, so we argued about it. I think Zion's going to be great. I'm still concerned he's going to get hurt. No, the hurt thing. I think Eli was really, really good. I think it's hard to have a big brother who's a better player. But his big brother is a Hall of Fame.

And Eli Manning is just a really good quarterback. That's the difference, right? Like, are they, are they, is he even in the stratosphere of Peyton Manning's quarterback? Well, Peyton Manning. No, is he even, that's my question. Is he even in the stratosphere? Yeah, because the two Super Bowl's.

No, he is not. Because even Peyton Manning's second Super Bowl was a joke. He didn't do anything. It's so hard to make it to a Super Bowl. He won two of them. I got it. I got it. And he won a bunch of road games to get there.

And then he faced the best team ever and he beat him, the best offense ever. They got their second chance in four weeks to beat him. They lost to him in the last regular season game. He beat them. I think he could make these arguments for literally every single career. Is he in the stratosphere of Breeze, of Rogers, of, of, yes. Winning two Super Bowls puts him in that shot. As a player.

Yes. No, he's not. He was the quarterback. He had to make those. Of Aaron Rogers, of Drew Breeze? Way better arm than Breeze. Way better leadership. He's not a better quarterback.

Way better leadership than Aaron Rogers. He's not a better quarterback. Well, but they're all going to make it. I mean, there's always stratas and Hall. Eli's a great leader. Where has the leadership been recently when all the, when O'Dell Beckham Jr. Well, the problem was Ben McAdoo, bad GM. It's always somebody else's proud.

Always somebody else's fault. Aaron Rogers agent. I mean, to me, we all know that everybody's not equal in Hall of Fame. There's like. I'm saying what they should. be, not what it will be. Well, you got to have stratas in every institution. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd.

Weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Greg Kossel, 40 years at NFL films as objective as anybody else. Greg, how are you? Oh, I'm doing great. How are you? I'm fine. You know, I support Jimmy G a lot. He only had eight attempts against Green Bay.

I could make the argument, though, that it is hard when you are inactive to be asked in big spots to be very accurate and active. Like, I, you know, there's not much tape on Jimmy G. Making big throws, but I still think when they ask him to make him, he generally makes him. What did you make of the Green Bay tape? You know, I have to tell you, I'm a little confused by all this Jimmy G. I don't know what even the right word would be, but this, the guy started maybe 26 or 27

games in his career. He's in a really good system, one of the best in the league. he's relatively efficient. There's a couple of bad throws because they work the middle of the field so extensively. So there are times where he just doesn't account for some underneath defenders.

But I'm confused, Colin, about what the issue is. This was a game in which their run game was as multiple as it's ever been, different concepts out of different personnel groupings. It was the full Monty of the run game. It was zone. It was trap. It was gap scheme.

It was what we call G scheme. It was toss. It was windback. They have multiple blocking schemes that have different formation looks. Every team would love their quarterback to throw eight balls in a game and dominate the game. What makes their run game so effective? We know about the zone read principles. They just gashed Green Bay.

And I mean, not just for a quarter or a series. Well, I have a theory about that in this particular game. And I'm going to give it to it. Actually, we were discussing it here on the matchup show at NFL Films. and one of my guys who's been a coach, and he actually brought it up, and as soon as he said it, the lightball moment went off. I think the Packers under Mike Patton, and this is his style, are much more of a schemed defense.

In other words, Petten likes to play out of his nickel with five defensive backs. He likes to play out of his dime with six defensive backs. And the 49ers, with their high percentage focus on base personnel, forced Petten 3-4, and I think that's what he likes to do the least. So the 49ers forced the Packers to play the most snaps of what they want to do the least and what they do the worst. You know, it's funny about Green Bay, and I can't unsee this. I saw them pushed around twice against the Niners, pushed around against Philadelphia, pushed around against the Chargers. I can't unsee that, Greg.

They are a team to me. They just need to physically, they're not particularly strong. They appear to be opportunistic, but not a daunting defense. Is some of this for Green Bay, they're personnel defensively? Possibly, although I think their front's not bad. I just think it's a philosophy thing. I think that Mike Pettenen likes to play a certain way, and I think that that's the way they played predominantly this season.

You know, they played a ton of snaps this season. I don't know if it's the most in the league, but it's very close. They played a ton of snaps with six defensive backs on the field. That's the way he schemes best. and when you play the Niners with the abundance of two backs with a fullback and two tight ends, they sort of force you to line up and play with your base personnel. And not a lot of teams are really efficient playing that way. I want to go to Aaron Rogers, who in two games against San Francisco, was outscored 50 to nothing.

I've been critical of Matt LaFleur's ability to adjust at half. They were a bad fourth quarter offense and a bad second half offense with their pieces, they were like 13th and second half scoring. But I also thought there was a certain nonchalance. I've been very critical of Aaron. I think he's a great talent. But I think he bails on plays.

I think he bailed on McCarthy. There's teammates he's bailed on. There was a nonchalance to his game. I don't, I mean, I just, what my eyes told me, it is confounding to me. I just never felt good. The body, body language is overrated. I get it. What was wrong with Green Green Bay's first half offense. Was it just schemes?

Well, I think they came out and they did try to run the ball, and they had some success. You know, and then I think their defense hurt them as well. So the game sort of got into a different flow. I thought that his, the sack fumble where Williams sacked Rogers to end the Packers' third possession, I thought that was on Rogers. I thought he did not recognize something that a veteran should recognize. Maybe some see it differently, but I looked at that play really closely. and obviously they lost that.

I don't think they lost it, but they had to punt. So, you know, I don't think he was over mentally. And there are times, and we've discussed this over the years, Colin, you know, I've been telling you this for five, six years. There are times he just does not turn it loose on throws that are there. Yes. And he's been a quarterback that has been a big play quarterback, and he's capable of great moments and great games.

But I think overall he has not quite been there. Yeah. I've got my own theories on that, but he has increasingly become a little bit of a safe quarterback, and I don't think you can beat San Francisco. It's my Mike Tyson theory. I cover about 10 Tyson fights. If you didn't punch him in the first round, Mike could smell it. He could smell your fear. San Francisco's a team. You have to back them off because if they felt Minnesota played scared, I think Green Bay was apprehensive, and I think that defensive line can sense it. They go from aggressive to hyper-aggressive, and I think it's a bad spot to be in.

So let me shift to Patrick Mahomes. You know, they didn't run a lot. But like San Francisco's past game, there were moments that Kansas City did run effectively. Let's say they got a lead against San Francisco. Do you trust this Kansas City offense to eat clock their O-line their run game? Unless you get, you know, late third quarter, fourth quarter, which is pretty much when they ran in the ASE championship game, they're not going to come out and run the ball. Now, having said that, that doesn't mean they'll never hand it off, but they're not going to build their offense around their run game.

The run game will come into play selectively, and it may come into play if they happen to be ahead by more than a score late third quarter, fourth quarter. But this offense is built on throwing the football. It's built on Mahomes and the gun. It's built on different formations that put tremendous stress on a defense. And I'm sure we'll talk more next week about specific matchups, but I would think that the Niners would, end up playing a lot of zone in this game because I don't think the Niners can match up. Yeah, you know, we felt that going into the game. We like Kansas City. We just thought you have to make choices against Kansas. Correct. Unless you have two really solid corners because their tight end is so productive. You get into a guessing game. Like where are they going?

I think they're a tough matchup. The Chief's defense, and you've remarked on this, it is, I've always loved Honey Badger as an instinctive player. Really good player. He's just always in the right spot. He can run you down. He's got great football instincts. He's part of it. But the Chief's defense to me, Greg, it looks like a real defense situationally. They can make plays.

Jones being back is a big factor and could well be a big factor in the Super Bowl. Well, we'll talk more about that. But I think that their defense has a lot of versatility in the secondary. You mentioned Matthew. He can play multiple positions. Plus, he's very good near the line of scrimmage in the run game and as an occasional Blitzer. I think Fuller now has become a really important piece since they lost the rookie safety Thorne Hill. Fuller has essentially become a back-end safety, but yet he's also capable of

matching up because he's a corner by trade. And who's to say he won't see snaps matching up against Kittle, man-to-man when they're in their dime their six defensive back package. So they have a lot of versatility in that secondary. Finally, the big play. We'll have you on next week as well, talk more Super Bowl. go back to your big plan and involve Jimmy G? Yeah, and obviously they didn't throw the ball very much, but just to lead into this, keep one thing in mind. No team in the NFL uses shifting and motion more than the 49ers.

Over 70% of their offensive snaps this year featured some form of shifting or motion. So just think about that as we start the play. This was in the first quarter, and it was a 30-yard pass to Samuel. Obviously, they didn't throw the ball very much, but I think this plays very, very reflective of what they do as we take a look at it. What you're going to see here is in what... They have Uchek offset in the backfield. 21 personnel, two backs, Debo Samuel,

is the split receiver to the boundary, what we call the X. The Packers are playing with split safeties. That's what they're doing here. Now, as you could say, why are they doing that? Well, we'll see, but there's motion. This is a shift, actually, by Uchek. You will shift outside of Samuel,

and look how the defense expands and widens. That's what they're hoping for. Now you get a motion. So you have a shift, and now you have a motion by Rahim Moster at the back. He's going to motion, and that's going to widen Blake Martinez. So the defense has now been expanded and widened, all for the purpose of getting Samuel, who's now technically a slot receiver, to run an in-breaking route against split safety coverage. There's a lot of space that's created by the shifting in motion, and it becomes pitch and catch.

And that's Garapolo's game. He's a timing, rhythm thrower. You create space. That's a zone coverage concept. That's an easy throw, and that was a 30-yard gain. That's what they do so well with all this shifting in motion. And keep in mind, don't ever use the word window dressing, Colin. When coaches shift and motion, it's never a window dressing.

It's always for a reason. Yeah, I like how you say it widens and it separates. Just a little motion out of the backfield, and suddenly the linebacker and the safety nudge over, boom, you got your play. Greg Kossel, 40 years NFL film, great talking to you. Thanks, Colin. See you next week. One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source. the athlete themselves.

Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch.

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I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast. Learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now.

What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

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Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Jared Adano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than me.

I'm an actor. I'm a comedian. And recently, I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hippocrat, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant, recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. One ring is too scary.

Oh, cream of chicken suit. Hey, cream. Cream of chicken suit. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite as part of the Mike Cultura Podcast Network available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think this is a gutty move. I don't know if it's a smart move. Matt LaFleur is the new coach of the Green Bay Packers.

I've said this about Aaron Rogers before. First ballot Hall of Fame talent, but he's a bailer. I saw in the last two days, family kind of bailed on his family. he's bailed on teammates. He bailed on McCarthy. Last year he led the NFL in throwaways. He bales on plays. He's a bailer.

He's bailed on teammates who have turned on him. He's really talented, but he's a bailer. And there's two stats about Aaron Rogers, which I think are jarring and don't make sense. One is, why is he a 500 career road quarterback? If you go to all the contemporaries, Tony Romo, Breeze, Ben, Brady, Peyton Manning, all of his contemporaries, they're all significantly better road quarterbacks.

The road is about discomfort and fighting through things, not bailing on a play, not bailing on a teammate. You've got to fight through discomfort on the road. Russell Wilson, great road quarterback. Never gets blown out. Always close in games. Fights through everything. Aaron gets blown out a lot multiple times in his career, and he's bad on the road.

I think that's a problem and signals his personality. The second one is, for as great as he is, he's got one road come from behind fourth quarter win. One in 13 years. Mark Sanchez has double that. So does Nick Foles. Eli Manning's got four times that. Again, fighting through discomfort. Here's a weird stat with Aaron Rogers.

most fourth quarter comeback since 2008. Matt Ryan 30, Drew Brees 28, Stafford 28, Philip Rivers 22, Big Ben 22. Aaron's 16? Well, he doesn't trail much. The Steelers do? The Saints do? By the way, Tom Brady's got more than that.

New England never trails in the fourth. Look at those two stats. Those two stats are, doesn't come from behind a win. That's discomfort. That's leadership. that's all in, fight through it, and he's not good on the road. The road is about battling through discomfort.

Brady's a great road quarterback. Peyton Manning was a great road quarterback. Russell Wilson's a great road quarterback. Aaron's not. So this has always been about he's a disengager. If you criticism, he ghosts you. Disagreement family, ghosts. That's who he is.

So yesterday, Matt Lafleur comes out, and I think this is really, it takes a lot of guts. I'm not sure if it's smart. He comes out and basically calls out the team, and I think you have to connect the team to Aaron Rogers here about the apathy against San Francisco. That's something that I'm still trying to figure out right now as we speak. I mean, I don't understand that because you're there.

You have an opportunity to go to playing a Super Bowl, and for that to happen, it's extremely, it's bothersome. And we've got to look at ourselves, everybody. I got to look inside of myself and see why weren't our players playing with their hair on fire. I think everybody in our organization has to do that. He was bothered about lack of urgency, kind of bailed, kind of quit. Isn't this my single criticism?

Never said Aaron's not talented. I've never said he's not great. I've never said he's not a Hall of Famer. But don't you look at that road record and go, huh? Don't you look at that come from behind playoff record and go, huh? Don't you look at his fourth quarter comebacks and go, huh? The road is about discomfort. Coming from behind is about discomfort.

That's what it's all about. Stop making excuses. Nobody will talk about this. I think it's a real thing. I think it's gutsy for Matt LaFleur to now acknowledge the criticisms you often got from McCarthy. Where's the urgency? Where's the leadership? Why are we bailing?

Why are we getting blown out multiple times? I think it's gutsy. I'm not sure if it's smart. But he's not wrong. Matt LaFleur is not wrong. You watched it. You saw it. Like Green Bay quit.

Biggest game of the year. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. In every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports

and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlic. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clifford Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Clifford Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow.

Then after that game 7, Marquis keep coming to him. He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.

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