The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Best of The Herd for Jul 09, 2020

Episode Date: July 9, 2020

Lamar Jackson is great but not even close to MahomesColin disagrees with Kenny Smith saying its easy to score in the NBA nowJim Harbaugh's comments on playing football during a pandemicCollege athletics is a house of cardsGuests: Mark Schlereth, 3x Super Bowl ChampionAntonio Gates, Future Hall of Fame Tight End Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Heard. is the best of the herd with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio. Ah, it is Thursday, and I had to ask. Last night was a little blurry. Live in Los Angeles, this is the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, FS1. Joy gave me her stylist, her barber.

I don't know. I'm just going to go with this. I'm starting to really like it. I like the way I look. I have a, I've got a little bit. of a 90s rocker look to it and I'm kind of getting comfortable with it. I mean, this is, we're in unprecedented

times, you know, we're all making sacrifices here. You had a wild night. Last night, I don't even know what happened. I went to see my friend at his restaurant. We sat there for three hours, drinking wine and went to smoke a cigar and talked about life and God, it was just a great night.

Great night last night. You're just living your best life right now. I really am. I really am. I'm just living in towels everywhere, leaving covered doors open. I left half-drank cocktails on the counter. So what? Cat ran away from home.

Who cares? That's Joy Taylor for those on radio. So I saw this headline today. I like picking on headlines. Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson doesn't like Patrick Mahomes comparisons. After a record-breaking deal, they're unavoidable. No, no. They're completely avoidable.

Lamar Jackson has been unbelievable playing with a lead and in regular seasons. He's been awful in the playoffs. Patrick Mahomes has been great at home on the road, warm weather, cold weather, leading, and trailing 24-0. Patrick Mahomes and Russell Wilson, this is the big separator. Circumstances don't matter. Offensive lines don't matter.

Home doesn't matter. Playoffs don't matter. Even Aaron Rogers, who I'm critical of. Mahomes, Aaron Rogers, and Russell Wilson, their playoff passer rating and their regular season, passer ratings are slightly lower. Obviously, you're playing better coaches and better defenses, but it's pretty much the same quarterback. Lamar Jackson's 19 and 3 in the regular season, mostly playing with the league, an MVP. In two postseason games,

he completes 51% of his throws, his passer rating 68, three touchdowns, three picks. Now, it is a small sample size. Could I just say, it's random? It could be? could I say, he's just had two bad games, absolutely. And nobody's disputing. You're not going to let Lamar Jackson walk. He's getting a contract. But there's a big gap between two and three. If he had a third playoff game and stunk,

that's the difference between $46 million a year and $36 million a year. And that's really what separates to me, Russell Wilson and Mahomes, from everybody in this league. Russell Wilson has a bad offensive line, a deteriorating defense, the toughest division in football, a coach that's running a Jurassic offense.

It doesn't really matter. He just wins. Every year he just wins. Patrick Moehm's this year, he was injured. Patrick Mahomes this year, the defense early was bad. He just wins. He's faced Lamar twice.

He's 2 and 0. But the real difference here is this. And again, I think Lamar Jackson's going to sign a massive deal, I think he's fascinating. He's going to be a top five quarterback in the league for a long, long time. Maybe closer to five than one, but whatever. That's great. But remember this.

When Patrick Mahomes trailed 24 to nothing to Houston in the playoffs, be honest. You didn't think the game was over. I didn't think the game was over. When he trailed the following week to Tennessee, 10-0, the Vegas betting lines didn't even change. Vegas was like, no, no, no. When he trailed San Francisco heading into the fourth quarter, weren't we all thinking, oh, geez, oh, boy, San Francisco better put him away. Oh, my God, San Francisco better put him away.

They didn't they miss Emmanuel Sanders? Oh, my God. Yet when Lamar Jackson trailed 14 to 6 at half to Tennessee, I remember thinking this doesn't look the same. And then when Tennessee came out and scored first in the third quarter, I thought, well, the game's over. that's not what Lamar's built to play from behind. That doesn't mean he's not worth $35 million. But the difference between the two guys in this league to me

that I would just sign a 12-year contract, circumstances are sort of irrelevant. I mean, there's relevance. I mean, Russell Wilson lost his three top running backs at the end of the season. It was a running team. There's only so much you can do. And, you know, Patrick Mahomes was better at the end of the year,

nine and own his last nine starts when the defense got better. I'm not saying they can't lose. Obviously, everybody needs assistance in this league. And it starts with protection, which Russell Wilson never has. But there is a massive gap. If you look at regular season, home away, playing behind, playing with a lead. In fact, I would argue, Patrick Mahomes is scarier trailing than he is leading. Because when you watch him leading, you think maybe Andy Reid will just run the ball and get the clock, don't get him hit.

When Patrick Mahomes leads in a football game late, you're thinking Andy Reid's going to protect him. I don't need the best player in the world to get hit. That's when he's leading. When he's trailing with Mahomes and I know he has to throw, I'm like, oh my God, boom, boom, boom, boom. That's scary. Lamar's the opposite.

When Lamar leads, I'm like game over because they're just going to run the clock. Lamar's impossible in one-on-one situations. He's going to keep getting first down games over. Lamar trailing, I'm like, okay, now you're taking components out of his game. I don't want to see him run the ball, keep the clock going, keep him in bounds. So the gap is still a mile wide on Patrick and Lamar. Now, it may shrink very quickly.

I do believe Lamar is going to get better and better and better. I've always thought year three is sort of the light goes on year. That's when Russell Wilson said, yeah, the light went on. I mean, Mahomes admitted last this March. He admitted. He said this. The quote was, you know, I didn't really figure out how to read a defense until halfway through this year.

He said that. He went 9 and 0 after that. And he's just acknowledging I figured out how to read a defense. He hasn't become like, you know, like Russell Wilson now, where it's like it's beyond reading a defense. It's manipulating a defense. Patrick's not manipulating him yet. That's what Brady did late.

That's what Russell did. So the comparisons are completely avoidable. These are two different quarterbacks. It may shrink very soon. But my takeaway, we're just seeing the surface, the surface with Patrick Mahomes. So if you're going to catch up to him, good luck. All right. So this next comment was nonsense, but I have to comment on nonsense.

So Kenny Smith, a nice guy, is a basketball player, very good. He's on a show everybody likes with Barclay and Ernie and Shaq. and he was talking about, you know, LeBron, not top 10 and stuff. I don't even want to get into that, but just play the bite from him. It's so much easier to score now that it makes it hard to judge guys' ability

because it's so easy to score. Like, I was a good score. I wasn't even a great score. I average 17 points a game at my highest, I think 18. In that year, I probably would average 26, 25. He's great, but for me, this is in my opinion. It's not in the top five of all time. Okay, I'm not even going to argue that.

That's just not, that's nonsense. Let's go to this, though. It is so much easier to score for these players now. That's interesting, interesting. So I went this morning, and I looked at the top 20 highest individual scoring games in league history. They should all be now, right? I mean, it's so easy to just drop 50. Only two are in the last 15 years.

Kobe, he was good, and Devin Booker, who had a good night. Two of all the highest scoring games ever, two are in the last 15 years, but it's so easy to score. By the way, Wilt scored at Will in the 60s. Kareem scored at Will in the 80s, and Michael Jordan scored at will in the 90s. Outside of James Hardin now, outside of James Hardin, if a guy drops 40 regularly, whoa, he's hot. With Hardin, it's like he gets 36, 37. and even he struggles in the postseason.

Folks, no reasonable person would deny that athletes today are taller, faster, more rested, private planes, better nutrition, better trainers. It's now much more of a global sport, so you're getting the world's best. That means you're confusing easier to score with they make it look easier to score. That's the difference. LeBron makes it look easier. Dirk Novitsky, Anthony Davis. These players are so good now, we think, oh, I mean, nobody plays defense. Out of your mind, everybody's playing defense. You can't stop anybody.

Steve Kerr's got my all-time favorite line on this. They're all right. They would all kill us. The game gets worse as time goes on it. Players are less talented. and they used to be. The guys in the 50s would have destroyed everybody. It's weird how human evolution is sort of like goes in reverse in sports. You know, players get weaker, smaller, less skilled.

I can't explain it. Folks, it used to be in the NBA that if you were a center or a big and you scored a basket, you would run down on the defensive end and just wait for the big guy to just drop right next to you. Now the big guy can dream. dribble. The big guy can shoot a three. Janice and Anthony Davis and Joe L.M.B. now can shoot threes. So the big fella, I got to chase the, the centers around the court.

I'm chasing guys around the court. I used to be able to be like, all right, big fella, come and lean on me. That's how easy it was to defend centers. And only one guy had the skyhook. Everybody else was kind of offensively limited, right? There wasn't a lot of skill at center. Everybody can dribble. Everybody can pass. Denver's center is the best passer on the team. we're confusing that it's so easy to score. No, everybody makes it look easy to score because it's a global game. Players are better, better coached.

It used to be you flew commercial. Now, but think about this. I'm not joking when I say this. In the 70s, you could have gotten on a United Airlines flight and Wilt was sitting next to you. Players played games, went home, had a few cocktails, got up at 4, drove to the airport, run a 6 a.m. flight. they'd fly into a city, take a nap and play. They were exhausted.

They just mailed it in all the time. Players now are on private jets. There's fewer back-to-backs. They've got better nutrition. They're more rested. They have better trainers. They are ready to play every night. I regularly watch games in the regular season,

and I'm like, this is a playoff game. Guys are after it. It's not easier to score. Everybody just makes it look easy. The game is never, you don't have to like NBA basketball, analytically now, it's a lot of threes. I used to like the layering of basketball a little more. But if you don't think this is the most skilled league

that it's ever been, you're not watching the game. It's like NFL quarterbacks. They're so much better than they were 15 years ago. So much better. Yeah. It's Kenny Smith averaged about 18 points a game. And that's about what Kenny Smith would average today. You know why?

Because if Kenny Smith was only as good as Kenny Smith, his coach would be like, stop shooting. I got other guys who can shoot. My center. By the way, here's my favorite stat. Look at this one. The average NBA team this year scored 111 points. Okay, let's go to the 80s.

Oh, wait. The average NBA team in 1985 scored 111 points. Okay, let's go to the 60s. The average NBA team scored 115 points. But it's so much easier to score now. I was just, whilt Chamberlain was going up against six, eight centers. I'm not joking.

The Celtics had a center named Dave Cowan's. He was good. He was six, eight. Ben Simmons is a guard. He's six, ten and a half. Wilt Chamberlain never had to worry about a center going, bruh,

give me the ball. Whamah, me, ma'am, ma'amah, whew, three. Will't just sat there, blocked his little guy's shot. You got to be kidding me. Have Wilt running a... Can you imagine Kareem Abdul-Jabardow having to run around the court? Casing Anthony Davis?

It'd be exhausting. Boy, we romanticized the past, don't we? We just, everything was better. The New York Knicks, we have romanticized a New York Knicks team that had eight guys that couldn't shoot a jumper. That team had so little skill. Even their guards weren't great shooters. NBA basketball, better players, more rested, better nutrition, better coaching, better scouting, better players, better passers, better ball handlers, better shooters, better by a mile.

And those guys can all play defense and are better and more nimble and quicker and can defend and have more tape and then scout you more. God, Lord, folks. You know, it's so funny, I was sitting there last night talking to my friend who's a restaurateur. And I said, you know, you've been doing this for, he did it in St. Louis and he did it in Orange County. He does it in Los Angeles. He's had restaurants in Beverly Hills. And I said, what's the secret? Most restaurants don't make it, right?

Like 75% of restaurants don't make it. And almost none make it for 20 years. And I'm like, how? and he said, we just got to stay current. You can't have the same menu for 30 years. You can't see food the same way it did in the 70s and 80s. Sometimes to sports fans, I want to say, can we all stay more current? The stuff now is the best we've ever seen.

Now, there are sports that aren't as good, like college basketball, for example. It's not as good today. Why? Because kind of the culture's changed. If you're really good, you don't want to go to the NBA, you don't want to go to college basketball, or you go for a year. So it used to be that Patrick Ewing would come back as a sophomore. And he would come back as a junior. I mean, you had literally Georgetown, Houston.

You had NBA guys coming back again and again and again. College basketball was better in the 70s and 80s. You just had NBA guys up and down. You had NBA guys not even starting on some really, really high-end college basketball teams. I mean, they would be the first guy off the bench. And they would get tryouts in the NBA. That's not the sport. But outside of that, virtually everything is better today.

The depth of the PGA tool. is insane. There's 300 amazing golfers in America. People always say, oh, I mean, Bobby Jones and Jack Nicholas, they maybe had one or two rivals.

Outside of Tiger Woods, have you ever noticed? You can't really dominate the sport anymore. Every other year, oh, Rory's the guy, now he's not. Brooks Kepka is the guy. Oh, now he's not. Jordan Speeth is the guy.

Now he's not. Because there's so many great players out there. Everything's getting better. People don't want to see it. People want to be rigid, but everything outside of college basketball is better today. NFL, college football, quarterbacks, NBA players, short stops, pitchers. You know, people used to brag about Babe Ruth. I used to laugh about Babe Ruth.

He literally faced roofers and sandwich makers. I mean, Babe Ruth, there were eight teams. I mean, Babe Ruth, guys had, they were plumbers when the season ended. They weren't working out in the offseason. and then we're fixing my pipes in my kitchen if I would have been alive. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific

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You know, it's interesting about the Mahomes deal. He's so good. I was like, yeah. Of course you give him a 12-year deal. I'm not sure you'd give anybody else that. When the contract came down, what was your initial reaction? He's worth every penny. Whatever you have to spend on Patrick Mahomes, he's worth every penny.

I mean, think about you're going to get what, how many primetime games do the Kansas City Chiefs have? They're going to get five, six prime time games, right? They're probably going to get flexed into some Sunday night games. And then they're going to be the game of the week on CBS every Sunday. I mean, that's the kind of value that Patrick Mahomes brings to you as an organization. So he's worth every penny. And, you know, for those who say, well, a 10-year contract, whatever, it's going to come along down the road at six years where they're going to renegotiate this thing

or five years where they're going to renegotiate this thing. This won't be the last time he puts pin to paper. So it gives them flexibility early right now to continue to chase this window that they're in with all the talent that they have, especially on the offensive side of the ball. I think it was a tremendous deal for the time. the Kansas City Chiefs locking up Patrick Mahomes. And I love what Joy talked about with culture. You know, we always talk about culture.

And there's a difference. The Kansas City Chiefs have created this culture of, you know, everybody wants to go there. Everybody wants to play there. I had that years here that I played in Denver with Mike Shanahan and John Elway. Guys wanted to come to Denver and take less money because they knew you had a chance to chase a championship, right? and that's what the Kansas City Chiefs are creating right now, a destination spot where people want to go because the coach has developed a culture. You know you're going to have an opportunity to win,

and Patrick Mahomes is this unicorn that's going to give you that opportunity. So they have created a destination spot in Kansas City. Now, the next quarterback, young guy in that 2324 age that we're saying, looks like he could be great, is Lamar Jackson. Now he's 19 and 3 as a starter, so he is great, and he won an MVP. I still, I've watched him in the postseason, and I said this earlier, the difference between Mahomes and Lamar is. When Mahomes trailed Houston 24-0, I thought, okay, just settle down. It'll be fine.

When Lamar trailed 14 to 6 at half to the Titans and they scored first in the third quarter, I thought, game over. So I need to see Lamar playing without a lead. That to me is the difference between these two. Your thoughts about is Lamar, are there similarities, dissimilar? Is he the next Mahomes? Yeah, I think that the difference for me, Colin, is that I always talk about the 70-30 rule when it comes to football. 70% of the time you are on schedule, right, as an offense, you're on schedule. And on schedule is great.

That's what you want to be. The 30% of the time that things break down because they do, like both of these quarterbacks will be exceptional into 30%. But if you stay on schedule for an entirety of a game, Patrick Mahomes will eviscerate you from the pocket. Lamar Jackson doesn't have that same ability from the pocket to win on a consistent basis. They are predicated on running the ball. Third down and six is a running down a lot.

They'll set up the play action. They'll get the one-on-one situations. From a long-term viability standpoint, And I talked to John Harbaugh about this. And the answer was, I don't know when I asked him the question, is this a long term? Is there viability to running this style of offense with that dynamic quarterback? I don't know. I don't know.

We're willing to test it out. We're willing to go down that road. And ultimately, you look at Lamar Jackson, you can make an argument that he takes as many big shots as a pocket quarterback. But the problem is, is when you're running around, the places that those things come from, and you're not afforded to, uh, protection of the pocket, I just don't know that there's long-term viability there. So I'm 100% with you. When you're on schedule and you're running your office and you've got a 14-point lead, the Baltimore Ravens are a 10-point lead.

A 10-point lead when you're in Baltimore feels like a 21-point lead because of the way they play complimentary football. So, like, if you have that going for you, they're unbeatable. They get behind by seven. They're in trouble. That's, you know, the difference between a Mahomes and a Lamar Jackson, both great, both exceptional, but a big difference because I think Patrick Mahomes can still win you from a traditional standpoint in the pocket, eviscerate your defense, where I don't think Lamar Jackson is there yet as a quarterback.

So it's interesting. You know the Shanahan family really, really well. And Mike's retired now, but he lives in Colorado, probably not that far from you. And so there's a running back for the Niners, Rahim Mostart, and he said, I want a new deal. and I say to myself, good luck. What is it about the Shanahan's and their offensive system that just creates thousand-yard rushers? This is what they do. Dad did it, son did it. What is it?

Right. Yeah. One, it's the Shanahan's ability as a coach, and this is what sets Kyle apart, this is what sets Mike apart. Your ability to tell your players what we're going to do, why we're going to do it. and how it's going to have a positive effect on them. And to get them into buying into that philosophy, running the ball is about all 11 guys being committed to running the ball.

And I'm talking about receivers and tight ends and fullbacks and everybody. And they get this complete and total buy-in. And then they create a system in which they'll run one or two plays, but to a defense, it will look like an entirety of, of 11 or 12 different plays. So they'll have two guys that are shifting, that are in motion, that are doing something different. Nine other guys are doing the exact same thing.

So it's the same exact play other than two guys that are shifting different or motioning different or have a different assignment at the point of attack. But to the defense, it literally looks like 11 different things that they have to defend. And it puts them on their heels. And then they've got total buy-in from all 11 guys to, execute that because they know ultimately that's where they're going to get the big plays in the passing game off the play action stuff. So they get total and complete buy-in. And, you know, I just look at my days in Denver. In 1999, Terrell Davis-Torrs ACL in game four,

Olandus Gary comes in and has 1,200 yards rushing. And everybody says, well, system, system, yeah, system is a big part of it. TD probably would have 1,500 yards that Orlando's got 1,200. The next year, Olandis gets her week one, and Mike Anderson comes in. It gets 1,400 yards. And I look at it and know, well, TD would add 18 or 1900 yards. But the bottom line is everybody committed to doing exactly that. You're going to have success. So, you know, for most of who's an outstanding running back, like, are you going to have

that same system or are you going to have the ability to go somewhere and actually fit into a system that is that good? And my answer to you would be no. Your production is coming from a lot of it. going to come from exactly what you guys are doing and the commitment you have to running the football. I will tell you this, Colin, there's very few teams. The Raven's one of them. Seattle's one of them. Obviously, San Francisco's one of them that's actually committed to running the football. And, you know, for a running back, it's probably pretty important to go to a team that's actually

committed to running the football. And there's very few of them. So be careful what you wish for. About a minute and a half left. I think Drew Locke is the next young quarterback. to pop in year two. You live in Denver, you do a morning show. Is it hyperbolic? What do people in Denver think about Drew Locke, who I think is the next second year guy that we're going to go, nine games in this year ago, oh my, we found ourselves a star quarterback. I think he's got that potential. I don't think it'll be this year. I think it'll be the following year because you have to look at the second year that he's played in five games, but he's in year two in the NFL. This will be his second coordinator of the NFL. He had four.

coordinators while he was at Missouri. So this will be his sixth coordinator in the last six years. So there's a difference in system. Learning that system, you're relying on a lot of young talent that you drafted, right? That's what you want with Jerry Judy and K.J. Hamler and some of the young talent that you went out and drafted. That's, there's going to be an issue there. You've had no offseason. You've had no continuity. You've got a new offensive coordinator. There are some inherent issues that they have to work through on the offensive line. I just think in year two, it's going to be a tall task in the division that they play in where the Raiders, I think, have gotten better, where the charges have gotten better,

where obviously Kansas City is the cream of the crop, to expect your quarterback to lead you to a four and two record in that division. I think that's going to be a tall task, even a three and three record that division. So I think it's the following year, 2021, where Drewlock really explodes. but we've seen a lot of great things from Drew Log from the standpoint of his pocket presence and his ability when things do break down to make a play down the field. Good senior 12 years, three rings. Mark Slareth in a beautiful study with lots of expensive wood.

Lots of helmets over here and stuff. Look at that. Awesome. Very nice. Impressive. Thank you, Mark. You got it, buddy. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m.

Pacific. You know, it's funny. If you look at COVID, it's really, as a league or a commissioner, do you have the stomach for the pushback if multiple players or executives or coaches get it? I talked to an NBA person yesterday, a front office person, and he said, I think we'll start our league and I don't think we'll finish it. There's a lot of people that think the NBA doesn't have the stomach to deal with a blowback. It's a very Twitter-driven, very media-sensitive league. when they just they're not going to have the stomach for it. So college football is fascinating because the sport, unlike the NBA,

where everybody's sort of on the same page with the NBA, the league holistically views social issues the same, COVID the same. It's not that way in college football. The Ivy League yesterday canceled sports. It's very academic leaning. The academics tolerate sports in the Ivy League. mostly don't support them.

But then you get into major Power 5 conferences, and there's even a gap there. I think college football in the fall is a 50-50 proposition. But I think in the South, it's an 80-20 proposition because it simply means more. And the South is willing to bulldoze through the bad press. The South has always felt ignored or picked on by the coastal media, and they don't give a rip.

So I think the UFC, they've had fighters get it, they just bulldozed through it. NASCAR had a driver get it. They just bulldozed through it. Golf had golfers get it. Caddies get it. They just bulldozed through it. I don't know if the PAC 12 and the Big Ten, which are very academic leaning, you've got a lot of elite schools, Michigan and your Northwesterns,

and your Stanfords and your cows and your UCLA's, there'll be a lot of academic people. Again, tolerate sports don't really support it. It's different in the SEC. School presidents are all in on the football. They get the value of the branding. I know California kids that go to Alabama, like multiple. And they don't know it other than football, right?

That's how you know Alabama. Jim Harbaugh was talking about COVID facing it and the road ahead. COVID is part of our society. wasn't caused by football or caused by sports. And there's no expert view right now that I'm aware of or that are agreeing expert views that sports is going to make that worse. It's part of our society. We're going to have to have to deal with it.

I'm a 50-50 person right now on it. But on SEC, I'd say 75, 80 percent it will happen. Because I just think they have the stomach. to bulldoze through the cases. They're going to have them. Coaches are going to get it. And do you have the stomach to handle the negative press and the pushback? And I'm not sure if the big academic leaning institutions do. I'm just not sure. And you start getting a Michigan bailing and a cow bailing and a UCLA bailing. What are going to do if you're a conference commissioner? You're going to just like have half the games?

But there's something else that happened with COVID. And I think it's strangely actually positive news, although it hurts now. Stanford cut 11 varsity sports, citing the pandemic as a breaking point, you know, mostly sports that parents go to or friends go to, but they don't drive a lot of income. Now, this is obviously painful for the people at Stanford, and this is happening all over the country where they're cutting sports. And this allows scholarship opportunities for kids. I get that. But college sports need a massive reboot. Outside of football, And a handful, and I mean eight to 12 college basketball programs of note, these sports hemorrhage money. It's a runaway freight train. It needs a total reboot. I'll give you an example.

Let's take a random baseball program. College baseball. Michigan State. Michigan State's got 25 players. They have to feed them and house them and educate them. And they have trainers and there's nutrition. And they go on the road. And they fly planes. Michigan State Baseball. And I'm guessing it's not a big moneymaker. Last year, trailed, traveled to New Orleans. Fluid jet, 25 guys.

Feed them, house them. Tuter them. They traveled to Iowa. They traveled to Lincoln, Nebraska, to Arizona, to Indiana three times, to New Jersey, to South Carolina multiple times. Losing money, hundreds of thousands on every single. road trip. Everyone. That's one baseball team. And Michigan State, not picking on them, has 30 teams. And outside of football and men's basketball, none of them make money. I've always thought,

considered privatized football, make it its own animal, have four to eight sports, men's and women, you're all good. But it needs a reboot. College athletes now are fake students. College baseball players, college hockey players, volleyball players, you can't go to class. Zoom. They've been doing that for years. College sports needs a reboot. They're getting one. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day,

seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to SportsSlic on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at a podcast. I'm Sam J.

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so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes, I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

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Antonio Gates is really an American story. He goes to play some football and basketball at Michigan State. Nick Saban was the coach back then, by the way. and he ends up doing the football thing, and then he goes undrafted, ends up in the NFL, and from day one was one of the top tight ends in football. In fact, right now he'll be a first ballot hallfamer. He has the most receiving touchdowns by a tight end in league history.

He has the most catches for a charger ever, which is remarkable. They've had some unbelievable skill people in San Diego dating back to like the 70s and 60s. And Antonio Gates is joining us now via the Cowher, Global Satellite Network. So I have never been, first of all, Antonio, it's an absolute pleasure. I've never been a big fan of the NFL preseason. I don't want to see my favorite players get hurt in games that don't count. I think college doesn't have it, and there are a bunch of kids.

So the NFL's cutting down to two preseason games. Tell me, when you started playing in the NFL, did it have value? When you ended in the NFL, did the preseason have value? Take me through how much it matters. Well, you know, when I first got to National Football League, I think it was, you know, you didn't have as much in the offseason. So the training camps were definitely valuable at that point. I can remember like it was yesterday going through the tour days, the true tour days. I think now that's the reason why you see a lot of injuries.

And, you know, just in terms of just guys being in condition and having that same. those days to prepare every single day to get ready for the National Football League in the season. So, you know, I really, I was fortunate enough to have this wide range where I started with the tour days to the point where, you know,

training camps were, you know, felt like a walkthrough later in my career. And I think the guys now are bigger and stronger and faster. Therefore, you know, and then the money. Obviously, the money, you can't, you know, exclude the money part of it.

I think the business aspect of it, I think that's why you see the shortness of the preseason. Yeah, players don't want to work hard and not get paid as much. So when you first came into the NFL in 2003, now it's 2020, that's a long career, that's 16, 17 NFL seasons. The game feels different to me, but it feels better. It's more about skill. Go back to your first year until your last. Was the game different or were their basic? principles that always remain the same?

I think the physicality of the game eventually prevails over time, you know, no matter what. I think what you see now is that, you know, you see every when I got to the league, you know, tight ends were just you know, blocking power, blocking

counter, 260 pounds. So what I brought to the table was pretty much unique other than a few guys, obviously the Tony Gonzalez's of the world. And, you know, you got a few guys that did things in a passing game that was pretty unique. Now when I turn the television on and watch a game,

I think every team has a tight end that can change the game. Every team has a tight end that can hurt you. And I think that's the transition now. You know, guys are 240. Those tweeners in college, those guys that were big receivers, they make the transition to become tight ends and become good tight ends in the National Football League. I think that trend had started when I first got to lead.

And now you can see when you turn it to, you know, even with fantasy football, every single week, you know, it's a guy that plays a position, that tight-in position that can actually affect the game and beat you. And I think that's the transition that I've seen over time. Yeah, no, I mean, Antonio, let's be honest about this, you, to a large degree, change the league. A lot of people look at Antonio Gate. By the way, you're a guy, a basketball guy that goes undrafted and becomes a Hall of Fame, and people say, we've got to start looking at basketball players. By the way, you originally enrolled at Michigan State. Sabin was the football coach. Isow was the

basketball coach. Now, now give me the chronology of it. Like Saban didn't want you to play hoops, right? Yeah, I mean, you know, you're talking about, I think a lot of people deal with this going from high school to college. You're talking about a guy. I was 17 years old when I graduated from high school, going to college, and I was on campus at 17, 18. Basketball was all I knew. I mean, I had put so much work into the game of basketball. And, saving at the time, you know, saying, you know, I was a tweeter in the game of basketball. I mean, it was as much more relevant to me now than it did. It was at 17, 18.

But I think from a child perspective, and you're talking about a teenage kid, you see a lot of this when these guys go from high school and college, and I got a son now that's making that transition in the next couple of years. What you're going to see is that, you know, when you promise a child something, a guy that's 17 and 18, that means a lot to him. And I think that was something that was done to me at Michigan State. They said I can play both. They said I can do basketball and I can do football.

But obviously, Nick Saban thought I was a first-round draft pick in the game of football. And little do I know he was, you know, I mean, what he had in store for me had, you know, held to be true. But I think for the most part, you know, when you're talking to a teenager, sometimes, you know, you just believe it is the things that is in the future. for you. And I think that's my, that was my story. I got there. You know, they didn't want me to do nothing with the basketball team. Everything was football oriented. And I was a two-sport athlete. So, you know what I mean? I couldn't understand at the time, I had just won a state championship and, you know, the state of Michigan in the game of basketball. So I was just like,

you know what's going on, man? You know, I could have went to the University of Michigan if I was going to play football. So I think that whole story. is just a great story for the most part. It's good for kids to look at it and say, wow, I'm 6'4, 250, in the game of basketball, I'm one of many in the game of football. It changed a little bit for me. And I think that was my ultimate decision as I got older is that I had a better opportunity in the game of football. Yeah, by the way, you were originally enrolled in Michigan State.

They went to Kent State, played basketball, and we're very good. So when you go, Philip Rivers now is interesting. The game is changing. Quarterbacks now, you want to move the pocket as much as you can. And I know Anthony Lynn, you know, Anthony Lynn would like to move the pocket a little more. Justin Herbert can move. Tyrod Taylor can move. Philip Rivers could not.

So Philip Rivers goes to Indianapolis, which has a terrific offensive line. There's a feeling in football that Philip Rivers is kind of a shot fighter. It's over. Do you agree with that? How much left does Philip have in the tank? your opinion? Oh, what are you talking about a guy that be protecting? It's going to feel like 707 out there for him, just because what he can do from a

mental standpoint. And obviously, you know, him is nothing that he hadn't seen at this point in his career. And I actually think the transition of going to Andy was a good transition for him because of the history, you know, obviously you got Frank and you got the guys, the coordinators, the guys that have been with him in San Diego. And if he could protect him, you know, he's, you know, I mean, Scots the limit of what that offense can do. And I had that pleasure to watch them last year.

I knew they had a great defense. I know they had a good running game. So you add a guy like Phillip to the passing game, a guy that can move that ball up and down the field. You know, I'm excited. I'm excited for them and I'm excited and see what they're going to do this year. By the way, would you be comfortable playing with the COVID stuff going around? J.J. Watt said he's not sure yet.

How would you feel on it, Antonio? You know, I think everything, everybody has a mixed feeling at this point. you know, just depends on the circumstances of how that affect your family, your kids, your loved ones. I think that's the most important part at this time right now. I've seen some guys even, you know, speak about it in the NBA in terms of, you know, certain underlying conditions that their wife have or their kids have. So I think that part would definitely have an effect on me if I had someone that was a significant in my family that I can, you know, potentially the effect. I think that is probably the determining factor for these athletes at this point.

Yeah. By the way, Patrick Mahomes signed a gigantic contract. And one of the reasons I would pay him 10 years, there are certain guys. I would just, I think there's a maturity that I would trust if I give him a 10-year contract. You know, he's a grown-up. He's going to handle it. Not every player could handle that. Not every broadcaster I know I'd give a 10-year contract to. I don't know if they could handle it. But you've seen Mahomes play a few times. The first time you saw Patrick Mahomes. Did you know instantly, Antonio, this is a superstar? Yeah, I mean, that was pretty inevitable to a lot of people. I mean, he, I mean, you really don't really know how to prepare for a guy like that. You don't know if you want to keep him in

a pocket. You don't know if you want to, you don't know, you don't know if you want to rush three and have a spy because he can beat you in so many ways. It was one of those few guys that you see that's generational players. at the position just because what he can do in so many awkward angles. He can still make so many throws. And like I said, when you prepare for him and I will watch our defense prepare for him, it was hard to duplicate what he can actually do on the game. And he's an incredible talent.

I love the fact that he loves to compete. And obviously, you know, bringing the Super Bowl to Kansas City, obviously that was a special mark for himself and his family. So he was always, you know, a generational talent from my point and my standpoint from being on the other side and competing against him. You know, it's funny. I've talked to Tony Gonzalez about that. Tony rarely miss games. It's remarkable. It's crazy. So to last 16 years in the NFL like you did, and you were a guy that could block.

You're not just a guy. You're nothing against Jimmy Graham, but that's not who you are. You're a blocker. how do you think is it genetics is it god giving you talent how did you last so long is it passion guys just don't last 16 years blocking in this league how did you do it well you know obviously you have you have to have luck along the way you know saying i don't want to take all the credit you know obviously the idea of uh i think the uncertainty that i had that majority of guys didn't have what made me different is that I came in as a free agent and then I flourished to the top of the position. Most of the time, guys come in and make that type of job.

They are probably drafted. So they come in with a more of a comfort level. I had to do everything firsthand. And I mean, you know, I hadn't played football since high school. So when I got to the national football, I was just, I was always afraid in a crazy kind of way. I was always was afraid of getting released, which I think drove me consistently every year. Because every year you're here, as I got older, you're here. I'm getting older. You know, we're a draft a tight end. You know, I think Gates Air is over.

So I think every single year I found something to kind of hang my hat on. And then I use that as motivation going into the following season. So I think that's why I was able to accumulate so many years back to back together. And I never really, you know, use my path. as a, you know, as a stone to, you know, say, look, the charges I've done this last year, you know, I know you're going to resign me. I've always came in with the same ideas that, you know what, this is a new coaching staff. This is a new organization. Prove that you're worthy of playing this season at Tonya Gates.

Prove that you're worthy to start in a national football, you know, national football league this year. So that was always my approach. And I think it came from, and it stem from the foundation of when I was a rookie. and have to make the team as a free agent. Do you remember, this is going down memory lane, you may not remember. Do you remember when you were finally told your rookie year? So you're a basketball player at Kent State. You haven't played football since high school.

And you're going through camp. And some coach came up to you and said you made the team. Do you remember where you were, who it was? Yeah, I do. I do remember how it was. First of all, Monty Schuyaheim, we all, first of all, the way it was, works is that, you know, when I was a rookie, you know, I got a lot of funny stories. When I was a rookie, you know, we get calls.

I'm a guy named John Leatherwood. So we get calls to the hotel room and, you know, boom, and that phone rang and you answered that. You know what I'm saying? It was time to bring your playbook. And, you know, I was worried as he got down to numbers, you know, it was like six guys left. And I remember me being one in six or seven guys.

that was remaining, and I knew, you know, X amount of guys was on a practice team, and then X amount of guys made the active roster. So I remember watching that guy get cut, and I was just thinking like, God, Lee, I got to be next because that dude was good. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, all the things is I was kind of struggling. You know, I was a rookie that I was struggling. I was learning everything for the first time.

So little dude, I know that the coaches can kind of see the potential in me, you know what I mean? because I hadn't had the experience that majority of these guys had. I didn't have those bad habits that majority of these guys carry from college to the national football league. So it was like credit. You know what I mean? Everything, it was fresh for me. You know, sometimes it's better to have no credit than bad credit.

And, you know, I was learning everything, you know, and boom, I look up and, you know, I'm one or six left. And, you know, I remember seeing a guy get cut. And I was thinking all these big names schools. It was a guy from Nebraska. It was a guy from TCU. and they were letting these guys go. And I'm thinking, like, I mean, I got to be next.

You know what I'm saying? Here I am a basketball guy with no experience, no college experience. Man, I was getting yelled at every single day. When I say getting yelled at, literally, you know, my coach was Tim Brewster at the time. I think he's at University of Florida now. So, but little bit of I know, that was the way when you think a guy had the potential and you think the guy can do some special things, that's how you treat them. and that's how you continue to push him to be great.

And I think I used that foundation in my rookie year, and I carried it throughout my 16 seasons. I love stories like that. I just love it. You're a Hall of Famer. You're one of the six or seven greatest players in league history at your position, and you were scared every year. There was fear there every single year.

And, you know, I watched that Michael Jordan documentary, and I told my audience, like, even for Michael Jordan, it was hard. He's fighting with coaches and teammates and general managers. Pro sports is hard, Antonio. You're a great story. Absolutely. You're a great story, and thanks for coming on our show today. Thank you.

Thanks for having me. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment,

and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlyce on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick you here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors.

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