The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Best of The Herd for Mar 30, 2020

Episode Date: March 30, 2020

The media's perception of Cam Newton is much better than realityOnly bad NFL GMs will use the lack of meetings with draft prospects as an excuse Using one location for the remainder of the NBA season is a good ideaColin admits where he was right and wrong over the last weekGuest: Bob Costas, Sportscasting Legend Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

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Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played. with and just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to listen to learn the hard way on the iha radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast what's up guys

this is clivert taylor the fourth and on my podcast the clivert show i'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff like being an internet famous referee we're in the middle of a game this linebacker this linebacker walks up to me he goes a ref my mom wants you to wave at her what Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Rhett, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Ms. Parker.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for listening to the best of herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday. From 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1, find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartreport. radio app by searching herd. This is the best of the herd with Colin Cowherg on Fox Sports Radio. Ah, here we go. Live in Los Angeles, this is the herd.

Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, we're on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1, and all our platforms, Sirius XM83, again. Again, anywhere you want to get us, anywhere you generally get us, podcast, Twitter, we are still there. Now, we are in a radio studio for the time being. Hopefully that changes. Bob Costas joins me next hour. We've been very fortunate trying to bring on some big names. A lot of people are at home.

Had Mark Cuban last week. Had Charles Barkley last week. So Bob Costas, next hour is on the show. And Joy Taylor's joining me, Joy, I know what you did this weekend. You didn't leave your house, right? Lay low like you're supposed to, yes. But you know what? We're all figuring out.

This is the new normal, right? It is the new normal. And here's something I do want to say about the virus. Post 9-11, we could go to games and we had concerts and you could go outside and you could go to restaurants. That was a great distraction in a very anxiety-filled time in America post-9-11. With the virus, we can't do any of that. What does that mean, Colin? it means that there's a little more anxiety, a little more panic.

That's being cooped up in a house with your kids. Small, compressed, anxiety. That would be with or without the virus a tougher life. So just take that into consideration now. Give yourself, I try to give myself about an hour a day online reading some of the virus stuff. Otherwise, I try to entertain myself. My kids do the best I can. But post 9-11, we add distractions.

to take our mind off it. Everybody's telephone usage is going up 60, 75%. It tells you every week how you did the previous week. Look at it. We're ramping, doubling, tripling, quadrupling our consumption. Therefore, it elevates our anxiety. Stress hurts your immune system. It actually does.

So take a deep breath. We'll get through it. There's a lot of positive signs in the last 24 hours. I want to start my show with this. perception often becomes reality and this is a frailty to our human condition we read we're curious we learn something and then we refuse to move off it i'm a trump guy therefore you don't care how bad he butchers a press conference you're on his side you're deeply embedded if you can't stand him i can't stand that guy that he could pass interesting legislation

He's not to blame for something, but you're going to blame him anywhere. You're embedded in that position. That's why it's important. I try to do it all the time. I make this mistake, too. Don't get deeply embedded in beliefs. Be willing to get new information and move off it. Because otherwise, perception will become reality.

And I'll give you an example. Cam Newton. The perception watching him in college and watching him up to his MVP year is that he's a great football player. The reality is, since the MVP season, he's not as good as Tyrod Taylor. And that's why the L.A. Chargers didn't want it. My friend, Bucky Brooks, writes an article, the Charger should go after him. No, they shouldn't. No, they shouldn't.

Tyrod Taylor wins more. Yes, wins more than Cam since Cam's post-MVP season. Tyrod Taylor, no drama. Tyrod Taylor, 100% healthy. Tyrod Taylor, low maintenance, mature, a very easy distributor of the football. The Chargers just had Phillip Rivers throw 20 picks. They are looking with their roster, which they plug the only holes in free agency, guard and left tackle.

They want a distributor without drama. They've had drama. It's called Philip Rivers. Big plays, big interceptions, not as reliable. They don't want that. I'll give you a perception versus reality number. the last 46 starts for Cam Newton and Tyrod Taylor. Remember, you love Cam in college.

It's embedded. Number one pick, embedded. MVP season, embedded. It's never been the same quarterback. In his last 46 starts, Cam Newton is 23 and 23. Tyrod Taylor, with the Bills and the Browns, two rebuilding teams, is better. 24 wins, 21 losses and a tie. Cam Newton, since his MVP season, 65 touchdowns and 45 picks.

Tyrod Taylor with the rebuilding bills and the rebuilding Browns, 54 touchdowns and 20 picks. Completion percentage, Tyrod Taylor, 62, Cam Newton, 59. Passer rating, Cam Newton, 82. Tyrod Taylor, 19. people are so embedded on Cam because he was so fantastic at Auburn and he's the number one draft pick and he's big and he's strong and early in his career the arm strength by the way I talked to two executives last week that said they think something's messed up with Cam's arm he doesn't

throw it the last four years like he used to but if you look at Cam Newton the perception is he's amazing and the perception is Tyrod Taylor can't really play. The reality is, Cam post-MVP is average, and Tyrod Taylor, post-MVP, same 46 starts, is an average quarterback. Cam and Tyrod Taylor are the same guy. One's bigger and stronger, makes more mistakes, less accurate, more drama hard to coach, and we don't know as health. The gap between the two is tiny. And if coachability matters, and if health matters, I can say Tyron Taylor gets the edge. But the Chargers look at it and think, we've got all these players.

We just want distribution without drama. We've had drama. It's called Philip Rivers. We're over drama. So, again, you get in bet also. Tyrod Taylor is perceived to be a good mentor. So if the Chargers draft a quarterback, Tyrod is the kind of guy that would help out.

You know, they signed him to a contract. He'd help out. Cam probably not as great there. Cam also could never be a backup. He's just too big of a celebrity. Tyrod's been a backup. But it's funny, isn't it? Cam Newton last 46 starts

with what's perceived to be a better coach Ron Rivera and absolutely more pro bowlers and better players than the Browns and bills. Cam's got worse numbers. When you get embedded in something, deeply, deeply embedded. And you're not willing to look at new data you're missing reality.

The perception of Cam up here and Tyrod down there is simply not true. Let me shift to this. John Lynch, I covered him in Tampa. I worked with him at Fox, and now I root for him with the 49ers. So there's these stories. Man, I'm telling you, when it comes to this virus, there are people that either see opportunities

and people that see nothing but obstacles. John Lynch said, no excuses. There's no excuses. work harder. Lynch went to Stanford, was initially a quarterback. They told him he couldn't be a quarterback. He became a safety and an all pro. My theory on what's going to happen in the draft is GMs, the bad ones,

are people that see obstacles. They'll make excuses. The good ones, see opportunities. They'll flourish. Here's what I find funny about all the guys in the NFL complaining about the virus and what it's creating. They had the combine. No, I mean, there was an actual combine.

They had the Senior Bowl. All the teams went to it. They have three to four years of tape on players. As long as we're talking about technology at some point today and about what we're facing, phones in America, last time I checked still worked. And oh, by the way, it's called FaceTime. This is something Scouts didn't have in the 70s, the 80s, the 90s. They didn't have it six, seven years ago.

FaceTime. use it. This virus, it's amazing to listen to the excuse makers. Stop it. There are people that are born with more anxiety. They're born, it's innate, it's in their DNA. But the idea that every team in the league went to the senior bowl,

every team in the league has four years of tape. Alabama players tend to leave early, maybe three. Every team got 45 interviews at the combine, each interview, 18 minutes. that's not enough. American Idol, they give you 15 seconds and decide you got it or you don't. Every NFL player I ever ask, and I ask this regularly, when do you know if a draft pick can play or not? They're like two practices.

Two practices you know. Guys got it, guy doesn't. Technology has never given scouts from FaceTime. That's just one example. It gives scouts opportunities they never had. Ask your kids, if you don't know how to use it, how to use it. I don't want to hear excuses. If you got three years of tape, maybe four,

45-minute, 18-minute interviews at the Combine, FaceTime phones the Senior Bowl, and you're still struggling with it, you're a bad GM. Get over it. There's either roadblock people, obstacle people, or opportunity people. Watch the smarter people in this league flourish. It's not that difficult.

It's the new normal, as Joy said. It's just the new world we live in. Deal with it. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. On Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the iHeart radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying,

and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, We get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, is we have real.

conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show,

I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42.

Hey, Brett. My mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Jared Adano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out,

help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than that. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian. And recently, I've become a...

quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hippocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian.

I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant, recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone,

let it ring twice. One ring is too scary. Oh, cream of chicken. A cream cream a chicken suit. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite as part of the Mike Cultura podcast network available on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm reading a lot of different stories from people I've known, Brian Winhorst, and people are saying, look at China and they try to restart their season. It didn't work.

I think one of the things I've been frustrated with is hearing people. compare us to China or Italy or Europe outside of Germany. There's no European economy that's even close to us in terms of the ability to solve problems, dynamic financially. Money is going to matter in this thing. You know, $2 trillion, $3 trillion, $4 trillion, $5 trillion. Most countries can't do that. We can jam that into the economy and use it over four to six months.

Money is going to matter. Wealthier countries like Japan and Germany have solved this. I think, rather quickly. I don't like us being compared to other countries, and our death rate is still incredibly low. I would say this about the NBA. I was reading, Outkick the coverage yesterday, and they talked about Las Vegas as a place where it's got an abundance of hotel rooms,

Thomas and Max Center, where UNLV played forever. I don't think it's crazy. One of the things about college basketball and why March Madness, I think I said this the day before it got canceled, that's about the masses. People flying from all over the country. You've got 380 Division I teams. They cut it down to 68.

And then there's playing games. The NBA has always been a very exclusive sport. Okay? There's 450 players. Many of them fly private jets. The teams all own their own jets. Make it even more exclusive. Go to Las Vegas, one city.

You have 16 teams. These hotels have 70 floors. You can give each team a floor. or two. You have one food service company. You don't have team doctors from everywhere. Instead, you have one set of doctors. You have one arena that plays two or three games daily. You make the most exclusive sport. It is only 12 guys, really, that play in an NBA roster, right? 15 total, 12 actually play. I don't know how they, I'll ask Gottlieb about that, but I think it's 15 total on the roster. It's the smallest

rosters, the fewest players that matter. You don't have to have a fourth bench coach. You play in one arena. You stay in one floor. You have one private jet. And by the way, as the playoffs advance, you go from 16 teams to 8, to 4,

to 2, and it gets smaller and smaller and smaller. It's why I've said they should consider shuddering the first round. And you just go to eight teams. Four in the west, four in the east, eight teams, one city, one arena, each have their own floor at one hotel, one food service. I don't think it's crazy.

As far as playing basketball with no fans, again, it's the new normal. You deal with it. There's a lot of things happening in my life and your life that are odd. That if you had told me I'm going to live a certain way a month ago, I said you're out of your mind, and I can't go to a restaurant. I can't go to all of my things have been turned on their head. I go to the health club every day. Done.

I go to a restaurant three or four times a week. I eat out a lot. Done. I can't leave my house for long stretches. Done. My family's in this house. I'm over here. I got to spend all this time now with my daughter, which is great, but she's not at school

anymore. None of my kids are in college. So the idea that the NBA would have to have games with no fans is not that big of an adjustment. I do understand the league is about style and performance. That's why I love it. There's style to it. Performance matters.

It's harder to perform. I'm doing right now. I'm sitting in a small room by myself and I can see Joy on a computer and I can barely make out Goulet. I like being in a big studio. I like having six or seven people, people on the floor performing, just sitting and talking in a room by myself. I'll be honest. It's weird. But I think, I do think the idea of having a centralized location makes a lot of sense. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. I don't know how many weeks we can do this without games, but we're an opinion show, and oftentimes I give opinions, and I whiff, and I'm wrong, and I think I need to be held accountable. It's our most popular

segment generally every week. Colin Wright, Colin Wrong. We do it on Monday's second hour to start, and here we go. Where Colin was right? I've always called Steph Curry, the adult, the grown-up of the NBA. He's like everybody's dad, right? He's not real high maintenance. He's securing himself. He was able to go get Kevin Durant and say, yeah, take some points, take some shots. I don't care. Well, who did Dr. Fauci? You see him up there during the White House press conferences. Who did he choose to talk to in the entire NBA?

Steph Curry. Who joined the live Instagram show? Our former president, Barack Obama. This is what, and listen, I know pro sports in the NBA is younger than ever, and I wasn't mature at 21, 22. But one of the things I've always thought is totally undervalued with Steph Curry is his maturity and his understanding that this is an emotional sport, having emotional discipline matters.

And I think in this time of anxiety, what do you know? The nation's doctor of all the athletes chooses Steph Curry. It's one of the reasons I love him. Where Colin was wrong. Well, the Joe Burrow fan club is now apparently it, listen, you can't have more than 10 people in a group anymore. Joe Burrow fan clubs got thousands of people. An NFL scout last week called him Peyton Manning.

Joe Clatt compared him to Joe Montana. And my buddy former NFL scout, Daniel Jeremiah, compared him to Tom Brady. Okay, I guess I'm wrong on this because I consider Joe Burrow to be a very solid B-plus franchise quarterback, which is he's a very good player. My comp is Tony Romo. I don't think he's talented enough to overcome the frugality and the dysfunction of Cincinnati in what I perceive to be now, maybe the most talented division between the Ravens, Browns, and Steelers' rosters in the NFL. I think he's a good B-plus prospect.

I've said the comp is Tony Romo. I always like Tony Romo. Tony's a poor man's Aaron Rogers, which is still really, really good. It's a Pro Bowl-ish kind of quarterback on good years. But I'm being outweighed here by people who love and no football. Where Colin was right? The Washington Redskins last week traded for Cam Newton's backup. And the coach that did that used to be Cam's head coach, Ron Rivera.

Listen, one of the things about the media, there's a total disconnect between the media's perception of Cam and executives. And executives are seeing a quarterback since after his MVP season, that's a 500 quarterback, completes 59% of his throw. doesn't win a lot with a pass rating in the mid-80s, who now you're not sure physically if he's the same quarterback and he was a very, very physically intimidating player. Some of that's gone and now he's just kind of an inaccurate thrower of the football with bad mechanics. We've told you, we never thought the market was big for him.

Now, I do think by mid-season, if nobody picks him up, somebody will get hurt and he's just too talented. You'll put him in there. He's a big physical presence. Hopefully by that time he got $1.00. doctors, he can be tested, but I never thought there was much of a market. And when his former coach takes his backup, it tells you we were right on that one. Where Colin was wrong.

I figure these NBA guys would just jump back at an opportunity to play. But LeBron on multiple instances has said, I don't want to play in front of no fans. And Charles Barkley, the former great current broadcaster, said it doesn't sit well with him either. I think it's impossible to play without fans. one of the reasons the game is great. You want to showcase your talent. The crowd has a huge effect upon the game. I know there was times I was tired,

and the crowd's going nuts, and I'm just like, I get energy from anywhere. There's nothing better than sticking it to a fan who's sitting right behind the fence, who's harassing you the whole game. But when somebody's giving you a hard time, that motivates you. When you're playing a game seven at home, man,

this is a huge advantage. Yeah. The crowd. Can you imagine playing a game seven with nobody in the sand? But when you get tired and depressed, who's going to give you that extra zill of energy to bring you back? Yeah, I was wrong on this one. I thought basketball's basketball, last paycheck, by the way, is this Wednesday.

I figured basketball guys. But you know what? Basketball is a style-driven sport. Nothing wrong with that. It's just, it is. Style matters, performing. It's a little bit like a stand-up comedy or Broadway. It's harder to do with nobody.

is there. Baseball is probably a little bit easier. Football, you know, maybe it's a little bit easier. But NBA guys have pushed back. They want fans. Where Colin was right. I've said through the years, the NBA is very progressive, and baseball tends to have a rigidity that drives me crazy. And I'm reading over the weekend,

many of baseball solutions to the coronavirus are, okay, we're not going to cut any games. We're going to get the whole season in. We're going to have seven-inning double-headers. Oh, Lord. baseball, this is the opportunity to put your arms around urgency, which with all this technology

we all have attention spans that are shortening and shortening and shortening. We don't need more games. Fewer games equals urgency equals ratings and TV now drives all professional sports leagues. Baseball once again, as we've said, struggles, struggles with change.

The NBA never has. and I think they'll get their season in. Where Colin was raw. Another Patriot, two last week, came out and said, not surprised at all, Tom Brady left. I was. I gave the chances of him leaving between 1% and 25%, but I was surprised.

Not shocked, probably, but surprised. Kyle Van Nuoy came out last week and said, not surprised. The best player on that football team now is cornerback, Stefan Gilmore. He said, not surprised. A player like him, play that long. National Football League, it's business. That's how you have to look at.

it. So apparently guys in the building who were close with Tom, productive veterans, not surprised at all that he was leaving. Where Colin was right? The NFL, one of the things I love about it, it doesn't care about optics or Twitter. If it did, Kaepernick would be in the league. Colin Kaepernick would be here. NFL last week said, of course we're going to have a draft. Why wouldn't we have a draft? It'll get pushback from the media. you can't worry about it. The free agency is a phone call business.

You can have social distancing. The NFL draft is overwhelmingly a phone call business. The schedule release is a phone call business. You know, certain sports, the NBA is very tied to social media. The NFL is not. The NFL is tied to Fox and NBC and CBS and ESPN because they feel like they're in business with those businesses. nobody's ever in business with Twitter.

It turns on everybody. Where Colin was wrong. I don't get the Tiger King. Critics love it. Number one on Netflix. It's featuring a beyond bizarre zookeeper with bleach blonde hair, a mullet, one word, polygamy. I don't get it.

It is weird people, and I'm uncomfortable watching them. And it's often dumb people making really poor decisions. That's not interesting. wrongly advised you watch documentaries that make you that you could learn something. I'm learning nothing from Tiger King except I'm not going to Oklahoma. Well, you're already not allowed in Oklahoma. You need a pass to go there already. I get it strange and, you know, you drive by something on the freeway and, you know,

it's got the car wreck quality where you look at something and you go, oh, my God, I got to watch. But eight episodes, I watch three. And I'm like, I can't, this isn't working for me. So I'm back to Ozark. I just can't, I can't watch it. Well, you can't compare Ozarks to Tiger King. No, Ozarks are real, that's real. That may be.

But the Higer King is so fun. So weird. Everything doesn't have to be understood, you know. Sometimes it's just like we want to turn the brain off and watch some madness. I get that. Where Colin was right. Well, I always said LeBron James is the Swiss Army knife of the NBA. I've never seen a player in my entire life, including Michael and Magic.

that can do more things well. Apparently he's a lifeguard. Carmelo Anthony said, a few years ago, I'm on the banana boat, middle of the ocean. He goes, I fall off. Braun jumps off the boat like he's McGiver. He jumps off the boat into the water,

brings me back with one arm. He's swimming with the other arm, and he's carrying me in one arm, and I'm like 240 pounds. He goes, that was special, said Carmelo. He saved my life. Yo, Braun, I appreciate that. You saved my life that day.

So LeBron is not only the great Swiss Army knife, In basketball, he's McGiver out of basketball. Is he the most amazing guy ever? That's an amazing story. It is. LeBron James does it all. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week,

within the IHeart radio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you, exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist,

Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it

and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway.

Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game.

This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref. I want you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, Brett. My mama want you to wave at her.

What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Kunky, his best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show. called the 1021 podcast.

I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I've said this on more than one occasion when I get into my self-indulgent moments that, you know, when I was in my, you know, teens and 20s and early 20s,

I was going to college, and Bob Costas was the broadcaster that, to me, really hit the right tone. He was smart, word efficient, thoughtful, concise, always had something interesting to say. 28 Emmys, eight-time sportscaster of the year. And I know that he has a, I'm not going to give away his address, but he has New York and Los Angeles or homes. Bob, are you in the warmer weather or out east right now? I'm in the warmer weather, Colin. It's pretty nice, isn't it? Right? Yeah, you know, a friend of mine said this to me about a week ago.

He said, we're fortunate. We just have to adjust. Many other people are figuring out how to survive. Right. And we ought to be aware of that. Even in a circumstance like this, which requires some adjustment, there's a difference in degree as to what this does to us and what it might do to others. You know, Bob, there's so many different ways. You've done NBA, you've done baseball, you've done NFL. Let's start with baseball because this virus is creating obviously some scheduling issues. This to me is a golden opportunity for baseball.

I believe, and I think most reasonable people do, that we live in a different environment now. The telephones and technology are attention spans are shortening. urgency is really vital. Shortening seasons, not lengthening them is generally the answer. Is this an opportunity for baseball to say, you know what, 122 games, end a little sooner, get out of the way of football, or is baseball in your mind so much about history that making those kind of moves are irreparable damage to its lower in its history, that you just stay with 162 games, this is what the sport is? Well, this year, everything's on the table. Whatever ideas they may have, whether we think they're sound ideas or whether they seem a little wacky, whatever ideas they have, if they're able to play baseball at all this year, and that is a big if they're able to play, they might as well within reason.

Try out every idea that has been on the table over the last few years and see what flies. You know, Bob, it's funny. Baseball's often been considered the thinking man's sport, which would make anybody believe. believe that smart people adjust and evolve. But there's an old saying in sports, the NBA thinks of it first and baseball makes the most money on it. But the NBA has been, you know, we're for gambling, very progressive. Adam Silver has said, listen, we'll do anything. Baseball, and perhaps it's the strength of the players' union, can sometimes struggle adjusting over the last 10 to 20 years. It frustrates me. Does that ever frustrate you? To some extent.

But it doesn't make you part of the baseball Amish community to say that, you know, baseball is different in positive ways from other sports. It is more reliant on its history and its generational connections, not that those don't matter in other sports, but they matter much more in baseball. And that's really the reason why the steroid era hit baseball harder than almost anything else because it poisoned the record books and it destroyed some of those generations. comparisons. It matters in baseball. Now, do I think they could say, look, we're going to 154 games or 156 once we're back to a completely normal situation, once the coronavirus situation is behind us, and who knows when that is? That may not be until next year. They may not be a single baseball game played this year. I'm sure you've discussed this. There may not be a football season. That's entirely possible. I'll have to wait and see on that. But let's say baseball was to say,

we're going to go to 154 games. It has some sort of historic coherence because that's what it used to be. Yep. Fired in 1961. And we're going to alter the playoffs a little bit, but we're going to do it thoughtfully. Yeah, you want to involve as many teams as possible, and you want to involve their fan bases, therefore. But you can't do it in a way that compromises the meaning and the drama of the regular season. There's a balance there in baseball that's different from other sports.

Yeah, you know, it's funny. My mom was, my late mother was British, and so I've been to England a few times. In England, cricket's called the national game of the UK, but soccer's more dynamic, more urgent, you know, shorter games. So it's better on TV. Therefore, the EPL, English Premier League dominates the country. In America, baseball is called the national pastime, but football is more urgent, more dynamic on television. We bet it. Therefore, in the UK and in America, the national pastime has been lapped by sports that economic

economically work for television and those economies. I've always felt this with baseball. In this time in America, for certainly young people 16 to 36, the pace may not be ideal. That does not mean, because it's got volume on its side, that does not mean it can be formidable. It can't be lucrative. But like Disneyland, it's not the coolest thing, but you do feel good taking your kids to it. That I think it's okay for baseball not to be number one. Pepsi is a hell of a business, Bob.

It doesn't have to be Coke. And I think baseball at times should be okay with that and not tinker that much. I agree with everything you just said. And while baseball is certainly not as culturally cool as the NBA, overall, it is a very, very profitable business. And if we're going to compare every sport to football, it would be like saying we're not going to let anybody in the Hall of Fame who isn't as good as Babe Ruth or Willie May.

A lot of people have very great careers, undeniably great careers, who weren't as greater as impactful as Babe Ruth or Willie Mays. So baseball, actually, over the last generation, has seen its revenues explode exponentially. Yes. And even as they fret about what they are not, let's think about what they are. Where was all this money coming from to sign Garrett Cole and a bunch of other people during this offseason? It's coming from a business that despite whatever its issues are, and all businesses have issues. It's coming from a business that's essentially very lucrative.

When I was younger, which seems like eons ago, but when I was younger, teams used to boast when they passed the $1 million mark in season attendance. Now even teams that are thought to be doing poorly with very few exceptions go over $2 million. A team like the Cardinals in a medium-sized market consistently draws more than $3 million. And when you consider the national ratings, which are a concern and there are reasons for it, You have to also take into account the huge amount of revenue that baseball realizes from now having every game on local television, every game on regional television, those regional networks pump millions upon millions of dollars into baseball. So before you go screwing around with what is in pursuit of something you might not even be able to grab hold of that isn't, you've got to think about it. Doesn't mean you don't do anything, but I wouldn't rush into anything either.

Like the way you can contextualize that, Bob Costas joining us here on The Herd, which is a unique time for us. And we appreciate Bob and Mark Cuban last week in Charles Barkley stopping by. I want to go into the Astros thing because I was a minor league baseball announcer. That was my first job out of college. I was 21 years old. And I got one inning of play-by-play in Las Vegas. In between $3 buffets and showgirls, I did baseball play-by-play. In fact, I think I met you there one time as you were doing something around the country.

And I remember Jose Konseko played, Mark McGuire and Jose Konseko briefly played for the Tacoma Tigers, the A's AAA affiliate. And it was the first time steroids were, I remember being upstairs at Cashman Field and somebody said, you know, that guy's on steroids. Now, I also worked for the Padres, who were the AAA affiliate. The AAA affiliate was Las Vegas.

Ken Kamenitti was on that team. And word started spreading that Kameniti was on juice. And so when the Astros story came out. My contextualization was, yes, it's awful, but it does appear to be brief, whereas I believe steroids was a 10 to 12 to 15 year issue, and people said, well, everybody was doing it. And I said, no, they were not. It ranges from 30% to 50%. So my takeaway is, do not take away the championship for the Astros. We did not take away titles for steroids, nor did we take away a lot of personal achievements.

I didn't hear your final judgment on that, but do you think there are, contextually, arguments to be made that steroids were as bad as what the Astros did? I think there are arguments to be made that overall, to the points that you just made, that it was worse. It was more far-reaching. It was even more insidious, which is not to minimize what the Astros did.

I think one of the big differences is that it took a long time for players themselves to come around and say anything. If they said anything at all, it was these vague kind of, well, we may have an overall problem. But they didn't call out names, and it took a long time for them to pressure the Players' Association. Don Fehr and Gene Orza, as brilliant as they were, as successful as they were, and their mentor, Marvin Miller, took a long time to see the forests for the trees, and to see that those players, also part of their membership, dues paying parts of their membership, many players, many believe a majority of players, were victims of the steroid era.

They were competing at a competitive disadvantage, or they were forced to use against their better judgment just to keep up. But it took a very long time for that to become the consensus, whereas here, I think the general feeling among players is that there were 29 teams that were victims and one team that was the perpetrator. Plus, you have social media now and players who grew up in that environment and less constrained about putting their every random thought on Twitter or on Instagram. So it didn't take very long at all for this to reach critical mass in terms not only the

public reaction, but the players' reaction. Now, my initial response to this was, just like Barry Bond's 762 home runs, people have a mental asterisk next to that if they know anything at all, and they view Hank Aaron differently than they view Barry Bonds, and people will view the 2017 World Championship differently. But as this outcry continued and became more and more fervent, I'm open to the idea. Maybe Rob Manfred viewed it as too late and not necessary, but I would be open to the idea of some sort of record book, official record book notation that the 2017 World Series was not entirely authentic. Bob Costas joining us, I want to shift from baseball to the NBA where you were the voice of it for a long time and outstanding.

In fact, many people don't remember my introduction to you was not hosting. It was play-by-play where you and Tony Kuback did the number two game, which I remember many times getting you. And that's when I first kind of like found this young Bob Costas, who was mid to late 20s, had a very different feel from Vin Scully and Joe Garagiola, and I felt generationally I connected to it. But you did NBA and did it quite well. And, you know, I've always thought the three best basketball players I've seen in my life were Michael, number one. one, LeBron, two, Magic, three. And, you know, I'm in the opinion space where it's a list-driven, opinion-driven,

proposition on most days. I want you to go back to your career and just the archival ability you have, your encyclopedic mind on baseball, obviously, but to basketball. I always thought the gap between Michael and Magic, because Magic's ability to elevate others, was a tad closer than he was given credit for. Go to the prime of both of their careers, which, you broadcast. Maybe my recollection is poor. Was the gap between Michael and Magic, Laurel Canyon or Grand Canyon? How big was it? I'm going to go with Laurel Canyon,

and that takes nothing away from Michael Jordan. I am in agreement with the consensus, but all things considered, you've got to put centers, I think, in a different category. Yes. I don't know how you compare it, Wilk or Kareem or a healthy Bill Walton or et cetera, etc. I don't know how you compare them to guards and forwards, but all things considered, I would say that Michael Jordan was the best, but he peaked during the time of branding and marketing and booming. Larry and Michael, and to a lesser extent, Dr. Jay may have started it, Larry and Magic and Matt, and Dr. Jay may have started it, but it really peaked during the 90s. So he came to prominence and did what he did, which was magnificent, at a time when all of it was amplified,

globally, the dream team, Nike, all that stuff. And so, especially for younger viewers, he became the guy. That doesn't mean he wasn't the guy, but to your point, he wasn't that much better. Was he better? Yeah, give him the edge. But he wasn't that much better than Magic Johnson. He wasn't that much better than Larry Byrd. Was he the best? Yes, in my opinion, he was. But it wasn't like Secretariat in the Belmont, where the guy who's second was closer to the horse at second, closer to 10th than the Secretariat. All right, two more questions. I want to address this, because what is often printed is it doesn't have the, again, the tenor sensibility that sometimes you and I, broadcasters, and you're still doing it at a very high

level. When you left NBC, my takeaway was it was very amicable. You had given them a great 25 years. They had helped you. You had helped them. And you were just kind of over the NFL. And you were totally forthright. I thought it was an incredibly healthy end to a relationship. It did not necessarily land that way to some. And I felt watching one of my broadcasting heroes, Bob Costas, I felt, although perhaps punitive is the wrong word, that it bothered you, that it was viewed as some sort of real disconnect and some ugly divorce. I never sensed it. You were up front.

They were up front. And all relationships end. I mean, good God, Belichick Brady. It went 20 years. Let's just, let's accept it, put our arms around it and go, thank you. I never thought you in NBC. You were just like over it. And you've done well.

Did it hurt you, Bob? Did it, did it bother you that it landed to some as though either you were escorted or it was not, it was not a refined happy ending? it was ugly, sharp, and intense. Well, it was close to 40 years, and if you have the time here, I'll be as concise as I can. These are the facts. But I guess there are some people who can't believe that somebody who was then only in his mid-60s, and actually when the decision was made, I was just entering my 60s, that that person would decide on his own that he wanted to leave the Olympics,

and he wanted to leave Sunday Night Football. There are some broadcasters, I guess, who will have to be, pulled kicking and screaming out of the booth and who want their last breath to follow back after this and then they keel over in the booth. That was not me. So in 2012, when things were just all, you know, wonderful with me and NBC, we signed a deal that said that after the 2016 Olympics that I would step aside. That was my plan.

They said to me, think about it. They put a clause in that said, if you want to continue on a year-by-year basis, you'll continue as the host of the Olympics and the host of Sunday night football. But I told them in 2015 that I was certain that I wanted to step aside and activate what they called an emeritus clause in the contract so that I would be to NBC Sports, what Tom Brokaw has been since leaving the anchor chair to NBC News. And that was fine. But then as things played out, I began to feel ambivalently about the NFL. And some people think that I'm antagonistic toward it. No, I'm not. I recognize the drama, the excitement.

I admire the strategy, the shared experience. And I can still get caught up in a dramatic game. I don't really follow it that closely during the regular season, but I can get caught up in it. And I have fond memories of my time covering the NFL, and many of the best people I've met in sports have been associated with the NFL. But I came to feel at that stage of my career, why do I want to be the 1,000th guy talking about the NFL draft or speculating about why the left tackle won't be available on Sunday night?

People have that covered. What, if anything, can I do that is of quality, but is somewhat different, at least on network television? And I thought it was the journalistic aspect of that. But the NFL is so powerful that some of what I wanted to do, understandably, might not have made business sense for NBC. So, for example, on the last Super Bowl that I was to have covered, I didn't care at all whether I was the host. I'd hosted six or seven Super Bowls. I agreed at that point that I was not the right guy to do it. I understood why they might have initially wanted me to do it because they've been associated with it for so long.

And for a huge audience that expands beyond hardcore fans to casual fans, I might have been more recognizable than someone else who would sit in that chair. But then they decided, given your ambivalence about football, maybe you're not the right guy. I immediately agree, but my suggestion was, why don't you have me interview Roger Goodell? You got a six-hour pre-game show. Have him come on for a real interview with all the stuff that's going on around the league, Colin Kaepernick, CTE, franchise relocation, this controversy or that controversy, this would be not only newsworthy, not only journalistically responsible, but very good television. And they asked Goodell, I'm sure they asked, I'm sure they didn't lie to me,

and they immediately were turned down. And at that point, I'm just thinking to myself, other than, and I don't mean this flippantly, other than when Muhammad Ali passed away or when Al Davis died and they wanted to put his career in perspective, other than moments like that, other than Jerry Sandusky, which actually was done under the banner of NBC News, what is it that I'm doing here other than people being familiar with me that really moves the needle? Yeah. Not all that much. So like you said, even the best of relationships reach a point of diminishing returns. The thing that I regret, Colin, is that a lot of people in this atmosphere, without understanding the context that I just laid out, speculated that they fired me, that they forced me out,

that I left in a huff. None of that stuff is true. But I will take this much of the blame. And I apologize for going on this long, but it's a chance. chance to explain it. And now people will misinterpret what I've just said, even though I'm speaking plain English. But nonetheless, here's where I was at fault. Mark Faineruwada of ESPN, one of the most outstanding sports journalists of his generation, League of Denial, Game of Shadows, those are significant contributions to sports journalism. I had never met Mark, but I was obviously an admirer of his. He called me up, and this was when I was still at NBC, but I was kind of transitioning to that emeritus role. And his proposal was, look, given the fact that you're going to be less

visible, something will be lost because nobody in network sports. We're not talking about Brian Gumbull and company on HBO or outside the lines or E60 on ESPN, but nobody in over-the-air network sports does quite the thing that you do. And I'd like to do an appreciation of career. Well, anyone would be flattered by that. And so we sat down and did it. And everything that Mark did was completely legitimate and completely accurate and honest. If you read the lengthy piece that he wrote about it on ESPN's digital platform. But the piece that aired on television had a focus, again, it was accurate. It had a focus on why I didn't do that last Super Bowl. Right. And yeah, and you know, Colin, I've been around long enough. I should have realized.

this is always true. If someone asks you to comment for a biography of someone you really admire, you have to be aware that if you say 50 things, the one or two things that seem a little critical or a little less than a bouquet of roses could be the only things that appear. So out of a two hours sit down, the part about the NFL and the little disagreement that I had in that respect with NBC, that part for the producers moved the needle. And that became the focus, which made it seem to many people as if my overall take was, or the overall take was Costas is the hero who's standing up for journalism. And NBC are the corporate villains here.

I never believe that. I don't think it's true. I'm very appreciative of all the years I spent there. They elevated me. I hope on occasion I elevated their presentations. and I have great appreciation and respect to the entire, well, look, if you're a thinking person, you can't be good with 100% of what happens. You can't have your own point of view. Right. But I was good with 95% of it. Let's put it that way. Yeah. Well, said. I am up against the

clock, which is a... Well, I pushed you there. Well, yeah. I really had fun, Bob. I, you know, I've admired you for a long time, and I appreciate you taking the time today. You have a closer relationship to Al Michaels, who I asked to dinner, but he never returns my call, so say hi to Al. I know where he's eating dinner, by the way, when we're allowed to eat dinner. I know exactly the table he's eating dinner. Oh, that's right. He's got about three places he goes. Talk about a creature of habit. No vegetables, same corners, same restaurant. Bob, thank you for your time and your insight, and thank you again. Thank you, Colin, for giving me the time to lay out the whole story. I hope I never have to address it again.

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