The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Best of The Herd for May 07, 2020

Episode Date: May 7, 2020

Adam Silver is starting to look weak in his attempts to bring back the NBAHistory is telling you that Joe Burrow will struggle in Cincinnati Colin doesn't want Alex Smith to play football againNFL playoff predictionsGuests: Steve Smith Sr, former Panthers & Ravens WRMichael Lewis, Author of 'The Big Short' and 'Moneyball' Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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This is the best of the herd with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio. Ah, here we go. NFL schedules released tonight live in Los Angeles. This is The Herd. Wherever you may be, however you may be listening, IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, FS1, schedules come out tonight. Mark Schlerth and I are going to be on something.

I don't even know what show it's on, where it's going to be on, but we're doing some schedule show. Seriously, I have no idea. I just know I'm doing it with Mark Schlerth. Somebody give me a heads up, what is going to be on. Joy Taylor's joining me. How are you, Joy? I'm great.

I'm very excited for the schedule, actually. I am. It's fun every year because you get to play win-loss. That's right. You get to play win-loss. So I watched episode seven of the Michael Jordan, the Last Dance documentary. I got all the episodes ahead last night,

and I watched episode seven. watch seven and eight, seven yesterday, eight tonight. Maybe not tonight because of the schedules, maybe tomorrow. It's fantastic. But one of the things that really struck me is that Michael Jordan intimidated people. And Michael Jordan, he, through his imagery, through his relentlessness, you didn't mess around with Michael. When he walked into a room very early in his career, Michael had a feeling, don't mess with me. And you can sense. that, right? You can sense weak people. You can sense strong people. You can sense confident people. You can sense people lacking confidence. It's body language. It's their words. And so, according to Woj,

top NBA reporter guy, NBA commissioner, is not testing asymptomatic players in the NBA. He won't do it. Because he's worried how the imagery looks that they're hoarding tests. What? That You've got a $300 billion enterprise. It's probably worth a trillion dollar. I mean, what is the NBA worth? Similarly, a report this morning, Dana White and the UFC have 1,200 corona tests. They're fighting this weekend. And they don't care what you think.

Because people on Twitter prey on the week. And Dana White doesn't give a rip what you think. So he's not worried about it. And the sports with backbone and good leadership, NASCAR, UFC, W, W, W, NFL, those are the sports that are like, listen, these are billion-dollar businesses. Get us tests. First of all, anybody in California that wants to be tested can.

We're the biggest state in the country, biggest economy, very complex. This is not Rhode Island. This is a hard state. It's not Oregon. It's not West Virginia. million people here. And our mayor, L.A., you want to be tested, you can. We don't have a mask issue. We don't have a ventilator issue.

You want to be tested? Governor said, we've got the tests. Okay, so let's stop with that nobody can get a test. Everybody I know in my life, small town, big city has been tested that feels they need to be tested. 99% of them don't need to be tested. They haven't had it. But would you be outraged? I found out very early that policemen and firemen in my community had been tested. All right, they should be.

I found out very early that a grocery store worker I knew, she was tested. Nobody was outraged. Would you be outraged if airline employees were tested? They're flying us all around. Or politicians who are running the country? No. Nobody be outraged. And nobody's going to be outraged if the NBA has a thousand tests to start the season because everybody misses sports.

And the people that are outraged hate the NBA. irrelevant, if you're Adam Silver, and the second group, anonymous, you know, shammers on Twitter, equally irrelevant. But this constant imagery of Adam Silver walking on eggshells around players and owners, it comes off as weak. Yesterday, Roger Goodell, strong leadership. Remember, Roger Goodell got blowback on free agency. No, he didn't care. It was a home run. He got blowback, even from NFL reporters on the draft.

He didn't care. It's called strong leadership. It was a home run. You got to have a backbone during this stuff because there's shammers and heat-seeking panic missiles all over the Internet. Block them, mute them. Don't listen. We're not going to have zero cases. It's not going to happen.

There's going to be deaths. It stinks. You can't sit around and worry constantly about perception. And the people that don't, Roger Goodell yesterday said no commenting on the season, no speculation. It's five months out. That's ridiculous. That's called leadership. Dana White's called leadership.

Companies with strong leaders are going to flourish in this thing. And it makes me this morning, and I've made no predictions on this. All I know is masks work and social distancing works. Of course masks work. If you and I are wearing a mask, you don't think that's going to cut down on the spread of a virus. Of course it works. And social distancing obviously works. That's all I know.

The only prediction I've made for sports, SEC football is going to happen. It may not happen in September. It may be October, November, but it's going to happen. Outside of that, no prediction. But that this morning, by Adam Silver, that kind of concern about imagery, that's the kind of stuff that makes me think the NBA season's over. I'm not predicting it, because the people that are going to survive here in sports, you've got to have a little bit of a backbone.

You can't be worried about all the shamers on social media. You can't. I mean, if you say, you know, I think we should kickstart the economy slowly with social distancing. I mean, it's an avalanche. Tireney of the mob, they attack you. You better be strong. And Adam Silver, it's my only knocking him. I think he's smart.

I think he's a good guy. Sometimes he comes across as weak, as paralyzed by Twitter, consumed by what his players think of him. You're the commissioner. Owners are your boss. Players are not your bosses. Owners are your bosses. So I saw this story. The Cincinnati Bengals don't have a very great history.

And they said yesterday, we were not moving off that first pick for Joe Burrow. You know what? The more I thought about it, the more I was like, all right, I'm really interested in what their schedule looks like. Because I think Cincinnati and Joe Burrow, they're the kind of team that could be helped if their schedule is soft early. If Burrow, who's going to be forced to start, can start with Washington of the New York Giants, get a couple of those games at home. It's like, all right, all right, Miami early. All right. So the NFL schedule released tonight, Cincinnati's a team I'm really going to look at.

But you know what's funny about this whole thing? And I get why Cincinnati picked him. He's an Ohio kid. They don't have any equity built up with their fans. You know, he's a good prospect. You can certainly argue, I don't think he's the best prospect. I think it's Tua. But you can certainly argue Boro over Tua.

I'm okay with that. I mean, if you think that, that's fine. I think they're fairly close. I just think Tua is a more natural. sort of athlete and was good from day one high school, college. I like him more. But injuries, blah, blah, blah. So, but what's funny about this is, the blowback I get when I say, I think Joe Burrow, I think he's going to struggle.

Sports gives us, like nothing else, a roadmap of what's going to happen. And we keep not listening. The reason I was so right on the Cleveland Browns, Freddie Kitchens would be fired, Baker wouldn't be as good as a number one pick should. John Dorsey wouldn't last. It was because of Cleveland's history. Let's see. An undersized, cocky, bad judgment, police video two-time walk-on

will not be good enough to overcome the NFL's most poorly owned franchise. That was difficult? Oh, yeah, they hired Freddie Kitchens as a coach. He'd never been a coordinator. Nobody in the league had ever offered him a coordinator job. That sealed it. And I got nothing but crap. And, of course, I was right in all of it.

Not because I'm smart. Not because I'm a magician. Not because I'm Copperfield. Or David Blaine. It's because of history. Sports keeps telling us what's going to happen. Believe it. Russell Wilson will make the playoffs this year.

Bank on it. Matt Patricia and the Lions will not. Bank on it. If you go look at the last eight quarterbacks who've come from college to the pro that have succeeded, and by succeeded, I mean a winning record. Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Deshawn Watson, Patrick Mahomes, Carson, Wents, Jared Goff, Dak, and Mitch Trubesky. Don't love Trubisky, but whatever.

They all have a couple of things in common. They either have a really good coach. Matt Nagy is a really good coach. Trubisky is a real average talent. They either have a good coach, a good roster, a good organization. Hopefully more than one, sometimes two, maybe sometimes three. I don't think Deshawn Watson has a great organization, but Bill O'Brien is a good coach. he's a terrible GM, and I think the roster is pretty good.

Joe Burrow is entering a bad roster, a bad owner, a brutal division, and he's going to be forced to start day one. He's going to struggle. This is not, I'm not a magician. Like, sports keeps telling us what's going to happen. Russell Westbrook is never going to lead a team to an NBA championship. His style in the postseason, it's not built for it. That's not what basketball is in the postseason. a low percentage shooting ball-centric guard who wears everybody out and plays in a tunnel.

He's fun over the course of a regular season. In a volume regular season, he's wildly entertaining, worth paying to see. But when you shorten the season down to specific games and specific moments, he's a low-percentage-centric, ball-centric, low-percentage shooting guard who is hard to play with. That doesn't equal championships. So the Joe Burrell stuff, Cincinnati's schedule, I am very, very interested tonight. And I do think they may get a little bit of a break, which would help Joe Burrow, but he's going to struggle. And we just all need to get, we need to get used to that.

Like, that's going to happen, and it's not hard to see. Sports keeps telling us and giving us roadmaps. Here it comes. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed. a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies,

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This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous. Miss referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rec. My mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? This Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. O'Donno in our podcast point game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game.

His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reed. He has to guard Julius Randall.

And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night bases on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

get your podcast. Alex Smith got injured not long ago and it was traumatic. He had 17 surgeries. They were worried that his leg was going to be amputated. In fact, they were concerned he was going to die. The government let him go to a military hospital because it was more similar to a war injury. His wife, 36th birthday today, his wife put out a video of him working out and I watched the video. I cannot, I will not be able to watch Alex Smith play this season. I can't. I can't see him get hurt. Alex Smith has had a really nice career. He's made $173 million.

He was a number one pick. He is a 94 and 66 record. Five playoff appearances, won a division, no losing seasons in a decade. This video, his wife sent out, is amazing. But if you watch Project 11, the documentary. It is, I've seen, I can't watch the whole thing. I know I come across here as, you know, too touchy-feely, but I can't. He's had a great career.

He's made a ton of money. I don't think Washington right now needs him. Dan Snyder, I've been told Dan Snyder has offered him an executive job. He's been offered in the organization, an upper-level VP executive job. That's how much Dan Snyder respects him. He could get a broadcasting job. job tomorrow at, and I won't speak for my bosses, but if Alex Smith was on the market,

you'd be crazy not to hire him. Super nice guy, gets along with others, really smart. I mean, he's played in the NFC, he's played the AFC. The video of him coming back, and I've had him on the show before, he has a legendarily good reputation in the NFL. He's a great guy. I can't watch him play. Joy, I would be on pins and needles watching him play. I couldn't do it. So as the team doctors in Washington make a decision, almost had his leg amputated, and many people were concerned he would die.

And I watched that video this morning. I'm like, oh, God, retire, please. And it just sit it down, a lot of money, beautiful family, studying wife, a lot of money, number one pick, five playoffs, won a division title, 58% winner. Don't play. Sometimes people have to step in and help you. because it's hard to manage us.

Men are hard to manage, right? We manage our money. Man manage their money better than they manage themselves. That's why Wall Street and prisons are full of men, as my dad once said. Sometimes people have to step in because men are, we get tunnel vision, we get very competitive, we can't, we can't see the broader horizon. I don't want to see Alex Smith play. I really don't.

I just, I sat there and watched the video. I'm like, if he plays, I just, I got to watch. I'll watch the Bingles games. I can't watch him. I told you I watched the documentary the other day. It's really, it's fascinating, but it is terrifying. Terrifying. I'm rooting for him.

It's hard not to root for him. I mean, he has a very resilient spirit. I would be very nervous watching him play as well. It would be an amazing comeback story. You really should watch it. There's a point. I'm like very, I get queasy with that stuff. I mean, he's been through a lot.

One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart radio app. Search heard to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Steve Smith, 16 NFL seasons, a five-time Pro Bowl, or he'll be part of the NFL schedule release on the NFL network tonight. I'm into the schedule release. I think schedules matter.

I do, but, you know, Steve, let me ask you, do schedules matter? Did you wait for it? Did you care? What did you look for? What do they mean? Well, Good afternoon here on the East Coast, and yes, the schedules do matter.

The way the league is doing it, they're doing it tonight at 8 o'clock on Info Network. You know, host by Rich, Eisen, Colleen Wolf, Kurt Warner, Steve Marriucci, Steve Weiss, Deion Sanders, and a lot of other guests as well. And what I love about looking at the schedule is it gives you a peek into what your season can look like. Right? When we saw the season, when we see the schedule, teams break it up each game in the quarters. You know, and there are games in those quarters that you know, you ain't got a chance, right? Just based on that team.

And then there's times where you go, okay, we could squeak this one out. And then let's just say a team like Buffalo, right? Let's just say, you're playing Buffalo on a Sunday night, prime time game, and you're in Buffalo. and it's late in the season. That defense is a slob knocker. They cause turnovers. They hit you in the mouth. They get a lot of pressure, right?

They're constantly in your face. Well, all of a sudden, you're playing them in December and it's cold, physical team. No one's 100% in the December. Yeah. All of a sudden, man, and you're away. So now you've been sitting at home all day in the cold, sitting in Buffalo, in the cold versus at home. where you can maybe get away from football for a little bit, say you're playing a Monday night game,

after meetings, go to, you know, I go to my schools, my kids lunch, just to get away and let my mind not get read up too soon before the seven and a half hours before the football game starts. So all of that stuff plays apart. Yeah. No, I think it does. I think this would know TAs this year. I think certain teams like a Cincinnati with a rookie quarterback, if you don't get much of a fall, Camp. You know, I don't think that helps you any. I think veteran players this year because of no OTAs. I think it's, I think like Russell Wilson, it's going to help him. I just do. By the way, you're in Carolina.

I've always been a huge fan of Teddy Bridgewater. I was never a huge fan of Cam. He wears me out. But I think he's talented. Are you shocked they didn't keep Cam? Well, I'm not supposed to have a relationship with people, but a lot of people talk to me. So I have a lot of information with all that being said is the lie would be, yes, I'm shocked. The truth is, no, I'm not. And the reason I say that is because I talk to a lot of people, but also understand what this team is. And here's what I mean. Matt Rule had a seven-year deal.

Remove the money part. Seven years says, we're in this for the long haul. We understand it. Mr. Tapper is a hands fund manager who understands long, passive income over time, understands that your money must work for you, even when it's sleeping. So in the morning it may be blood on the streets, but later or a couple of days later, it may get cleaned up. So understanding the long process of a passive income is income,

generating over a long period of time so you have to be patient real estate passive income stocks you can't get in the stock market trying to get a fast cash and and so you got a new coach who wants to implement some of the stuff he wants and if you don't believe me how does the guy have seven picks and he picks all defensive players yeah he's filling the void of areas he believes needs to be filled up defense young cheap yep he utilized all through free agency, meaning I called it patchwork, not anything wrong with Teddy Bridgewater, just more of saying Teddy Bridgewater is not going to be the quarterback there for the next nine years. He's not a spring chicken. He has a little bit of miles on his spodometer and some

injuries, right? And so then you have an officer line who really is trying to get fixed. They've traded, put some guys in. So there's a long process in which they're starting this process now. They're warning the fans, even though you may not read the writing on the wall. I don't want to say rebuilding their rehabbing, right? Yeah. They're rehabbing. They're not removing the cabinetry completely.

They're sanding it down, stripping away all the bad parts that they deem are bad. I'm not saying cam is bad. They deems that they can do without and repainting it. And that's how rehabbing construction kind of goes. It's a process. You know, I- Yeah, Steve Smith joining us. Alex Smith, 17 surgeries on his leg.

I almost wish you. It's just too much. I'm going to be nervous watching him. You actually broke your leg, I think, in 2004. You came back. had a huge year in 2005. Was there a moment that you thought, this is brutal? Several.

And did you ever think about retirement? I never thought about retirement. I wanted to know how much longer. So I did in September, I was not completely able to walk without either a boot, crutches, or aircast until late December. Wow. And then the pool work I was doing was in January and February. I wasn't really feeling good, good until training camp. So that's September, October, November, December, January, February, March, April, May, June, July.

So you're talking about 10 months. Think about it, 10 months. Do you know how many times I questioned myself at 10 months? Do you know how many times I said, I don't know how this is going to work out? How much doubt I had, how much negative talk, how many tears I have. have. You know, it's, it's like anything else, just like we're talking about, you know, the Carolina fans. It's a process. Did you ever worry about getting hit once you did play? Yes. So at the time I was with Reebok, and so I had my shoes constructed. The guys used to make

fun of me. I wore high tops. I wore literally like the old school converse high tops. It was Reebok, but I wore shoes that went up to the top of my surgically repair because I broke my tibia or fibia, and I tore the ligaments in the inside and outside of my ankle. So they had to repair the ligaments as well on top of the break. Oh, Lord. So that's what you call a hot mess, right? I had a lot going on. Oh, Steve.

Wow, that's, you've had, you just had a great career, man. You know what? And you're a tough guy. So if you had questions, I mean, I look at that Alex Smith stuff, and I think to myself, dudes made 100. I had to turn it off. I can't watch it, Steve. I can't watch athletes.

I've told Joy this. I can't watch pro athletes get hurt. I can't. I just, I just, I can't. I can't watch the thighsmen. I can't watch Alex Smith. So you couldn't watch it because you've been through it and you know how brutal it is. Man, you know who I couldn't watch?

I couldn't watch Gordon. Oh, God, Gordon Hayward. Oh, Gordon Hayward, when they showed that, I almost puked. I'm like, why are we, why do we need to rewatch watching a man fracture and tear his stuff out of the socket? Oh, God. You know, it was bad, but, you know, some folks like it. That's why we got doctors. I can never be a doctor.

I got a Belgian Malinwall right now, and it's a female, and she's in heat. And let me tell you, brother, I am squamish, squeamish dealing with her right now. So you don't like blood? Yeah. You don't like blood? I don't like blood either. I cut my finger in ninth grade. I still have a scar on my hand.

I passed out. I can't take blood. No, I hate to say it. I love you, bro, but I'm not soft like that. I'm pretty soft, Steve. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm just a talking head. All right.

Steve Smith, NFL network tonight. Love your stories. Good talking to you. Appreciate it. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. On Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the I-Hard radio app. I season ends, and a bunch of coaches get fired and hired, like Washington, right? And then you have your free agent, period.

And then you have your draft. and then you also have your schedule release, and then you have camp and some guys get hurt. And so I could sit and never, you know, make no prediction until right before the season. But I do believe once I get the coaches in, once I get the free agency in, and once I get the draft in,

you can kind of predict what's going to happen. I think the variations of the standings will be small. I do think somebody tonight, so I'm going to give you, my AFC and my NFC standing predictions pre-schedule release and my gut feeling is

I'll make some moves. Not drastic, but some. So you want to go AFC first? All right. So AFC East Bill's Jets tie at 9 and 7 but Bills beat the Jets twice

and win the division. Dolphins 3rd at 7 and 9, Patriots 7 and 9. Patriots have no weapons. quarterback never taken a meaningful snap, no weapons. They lost their two best linebackers. They're kicker. They haven't replaced them. Rookie tight ends.

Tight ends tend to take a while in the NFL. So bills, jets, dolphins, patriots. AFC North. Ravens win 10 and 6. Brown second, 9 and 7. I've moved the Steelers down to 7 and 9, Bengals 5 and 11. I guess the story here would be I have Cleveland over Pittsburgh. I think they have better components.

I think I don't trust Big Ben's offseason workout regimen, as Jake Laser pointed out yesterday. And I'll probably look at the schedule tonight. The Steelers are one of those teams I could move up to 8 and 8, 9, and 7 based on the schedule. And Bengals, they're 5 and 11. AFC South, I think the Colts reclaim it with Philip Rivers. I think for a year he works. Titans pull back.

I think the Ryan Tanny Hill stuff all worked perfectly at won't this year. Titans, too noisy, too much. many missteps in the front office, pull back at 7 and 9. Jags a couple of wins, but they're tanking, 2 and 14. AFC West, I think is very competitive. Chiefs to win, Bronco second, Chargers and Raiders. I love the Chargers roster. But this is a quarterback coach league in Anthony Lynn and Tyrod Taylor in a division

that's got Mahomes and Andy Reid, I think they're outgunned. And I got to tell you something, I thought Vic Fangio did a really good job in the second half of the season last year. I thought Denver really came alive, and I love Denver's off-season. Chargers rounded out 5 and 11. I'll watch their schedule and see. I think the division's too tough for them.

I don't think they're good enough defensively to compete. The Raiders 5-11. So my AFC playoff picture, Bills win the east, Ravens win the north, Colts win the South, Chiefs win the West, and then the wildcard teams are Denver, Cleveland, and the Jets.

and the NFC. Eagles win the division. Two games over the Dallas Cowboys at 8 and 8. Giants 6 and 10. Redskins 5 and 11. Redskins defense is interesting, but I don't have any idea what they're going to look like a quarterback. New coach, new coordinators, new staff, no OTAs, virus year. I don't know. NFC North. I think Minnesota had a better roster overall than Green Bay last year.

And I think they had a much, much more influential, draft. I think Minnesota had one of the better drafts than the Packers did. Bears 8 and 8. Quarterback situation, who knows, I don't buy Matt Patricia 5 and 11. NFC South. I think the Saints getting Malcolm Jenkins and Emmanuel Sanders was really smart. Veteran smart players who come in fit very easily. I think Tom Brady gets Tampa after a Rocky September 9 and 7. I do not think Carolina's in a rebuilding mode. I think Carolina is going to score a bunch of points with Teddy Bridgewater, who's a very very good distributor. And I think they drafted all defense. I don't think they're in a total rebuild mode.

I think Carolina is going to be okay. Atlanta, I don't know how I feel. I'll watch the schedule. They feel 500 to me. I have them at 7 and 9. NFC West. Seattle 12 and 4 is pretty ambitious, but I think Seattle and 49ers are the class of the division.

I think Seattle last year was on fire. They beat San Francisco. Then they fell apart in the backfield. Or they think they would have ended up in the NFC championship. and quite frankly, I think they could have ended up in the Super Bowl. I undervalued them last year. I'm not doing it again. Rams 8 and 8 don't have any depth on a bunch of new coaches.

Cardinals 6 and 10. They'll be a fun 6 and 10. We'll see how Isaiah Simmons works. I love watching Kyler Murray. So in the NFC, I have the Eagles winning the east, the Vikings, the North, the Saints, the South, the Seahawks winning the West. And my wildcard teams, 49ers are going to be a heck of a wildcard team, Tampa Bay and Green Bay. And there you go.

and I have the right to change my mind. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 and the TikTok podcast. network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough, Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app,

Search learn the hard way and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes,

Hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, miss. Parker.

Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before.

And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us

on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get to flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball, like, You go through a training camp with that Isaiah, you figure it out real quick.

Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Michael Lewis is somebody I get maybe once twice a year, a noted author, podcast host, many New York Times bestselling books. Many of his books have been adapted to movie form, Blindside, Moneyball, the Big Short, all nominated for Academy Awards. I just said about 15 minutes ago, Moneyball may be my favorite sports movie ever, and it is my favorite sports book. And I know some of you think I don't love baseball,

but I grew up as a minor league baseball announcer. That was my first sort of introduction to broadcasting, but it just so happens in my space on my platforms, the NFL's king. And Michael Lewis has a new podcast. Before I get to that, I want to introduce him. You know, Michael, I was saying during the break that for some reason, NFL works on TV.

but baseball works in books and in movies. Not to put you on the spot, but why is that? Because I'm drawn to baseball books, but football on TV. You'd rather read about baseball and watch football. Yes, absolutely. I don't know why that is. Yeah, you know, it's really true that when I, that trying to write a football book, the opposite is true, too,

that you don't want to write a football book because you can throw it inside of a stadium of people watching a football game and they'll have no interest. So why is that? I think there are a couple reasons. One is the pace of the game lends itself to literature, that it's slow. But the second thing is the connection to history. It's sort of like baseball.

You know, baseball is selling not just the game, but the history of the game. Whereas football, you know, it's there, basketball, it's there. But that's not really what's being sold. being sold is the excitement of the game. Yeah. So I think those two things, but it's totally true. Like you write a baseball book and you have a built-in audience of like 50,000 people who will read every baseball book.

Well, Michael, you never turn on a sports radio host. Nobody brings up Red Grange. Nobody. Or Jim Thorpe. Never. Not in my... But if you talk baseball, Mickey Mantle is fascinating. Yeah, that's exactly right.

Yeah. And it's, it's, so the, and I think, so maybe the other thing is, you can sort of imagine the baseball players from the 1930s competing on the field. Yes. With the baseball players today, you can't really imagine the football players from the 1950s actually being competitive on the field today. Oh, no, Bob Gibson and Sandy Kofax would get people out today. Yes. No question. Yeah.

But I'm not sure how Bob Lilly would do. Maybe he'd be fine. Maybe he would be fine, and I just don't know. But I think you just don't see, the game just, the other games have been allowed to change in a much more dramatic way. You know what's interesting. When you wrote Moneyball, it probably did not help the A's, you gave away the secret sauce. And when I read the book and watch the movie, I think, ooh, You gave away your secrets.

Was Billy being concerned about that? You know what he said when I said to him after I was done, because I didn't bring it up until I was done, I said, you know, I thought you were going to be upset for that reason. And he looked at me and he said, you don't think anyone in baseball is really going to read your book. He said, we've been doing this for like eight years, and it's all as plain as day and nobody cares.

So nobody reads books in baseball. None of the people who work in baseball, he said. And he was kind of right about that. It wasn't like existing management that read the book and went, oh, they're right, and I'm wrong. That's not how it worked. But owners got very irritated when they saw that there was a better way to spend their money. And so it did, but to the point of whether it actually kind of screwed up the A's, it was happening, it's going to happen anyway.

The Red Sox were already onto it. And if anything, it just sort of made it move a little faster. I don't think the A's were going to keep their secrets for much longer. You know, I've said that I'm not sure Sabre metrics over time are helping baseball as a television product. For instance, I miss the cat and mouse of stolen bases. I don't like defensive shifts. You know, as a TV product, I want to see Bryce Harper, handsome kid, big head of hair, on second base, camera shots back and forth. The game now is strikeouts and home runs.

And I wonder sometimes, Michael, if the analytics have not been good for the television product of baseball. So I think you're absolutely right about that. And I think that it's just an accident because I don't think it's true to say that like analytics generally make sports less watchable. Because I look at basketball. What have analytics done there? It's created this much more of a run and gun kind of situation. More skill, yeah. Much more fun to watch.

I think basketball is getting more fun to watch. I agree. And that's driven by analytics, too. So it's not that the analytics are inherently boring, but it's true that the analytics in baseball lead to an even more ponderous game. Right? It's sort of like the secrets that are revealed by data in baseball is everybody should move even less than they are. Michael.

I'm Tom Perducci and I have talked about this. I don't like defensive shifts, Michael, because my takeaway is this. You can't sit in the crease in hockey. you can't stand in the lane in basketball and the NFL doesn't let you to move all over the place. You know, there's certain offensively there's some choreography. But in baseball, it just go sit

where you want and stand and it's like, no, no, no, no, I don't believe my second basement should be able to be a right fielder. Well, you see, you're very wedded to the past here. I am. Because you like the idea. But in addition, it really is true that it's sort of like the way it's drifting

is try to minimize the amount of human motion. And with exciting as motion, like the stolen base is gone. So that, but so you, you know, I don't have a really strong view about whether the, whether you should come down on the rules committee and say, you're going to have to, we're going to force you to play stupid. Even though you know it would be smarter to do that, we're going to force you to do this. I think you, I think you'd have trouble.

I don't know. Give it a whirl. Well, it's interesting. this virus. I am fascinated by baseball, which has been a thinking man's game, but there is a certain rigidity to the unions in the process. You're asking a league. The NFL and the NBA have come out with, I mean, the NBA at one point changed its ball and didn't tell the players. These sports are revolvers. Basketball audience tends to be young, you know, techie, social media. NFL has always had an underdog mentality. Even today, they feel like they're playing

catch up. So they're very good. It's all about business. Change, change, change, adapt the rules. Baseball's about its history, its unions, its lore. How do you think during this virus, the rigidity of the sport being forced to make drastic changes to get this season in? Do you think they will? Yes, I think because for some time now, they have a sense they're falling behind the other leagues. and I think that the leadership, especially in basketball, has been, I get the sense that Adam Silver is driving things in a funny way, that the other people running the leagues are looking at him and saying he's kind of the model. And I think that what it does with this moment does is it gives the baseball leadership an excuse to do things differently.

with that you know there there's always this fear of like outraging the fan the true and now you know now you can really do almost anything and people will say it's okay because of the moment and the other thing is when you flip on a baseball game when they eventually happen compared to how most of us are living our lives it will seem unbelievably kinetic it would be like oh my god how exciting yeah you know i was thinking of this um billy bean was friends with the arsenal coach wasn't he, the English Premier League team, the Arsenal coach? I don't know, but it would make sense because he's all over soccer. And I don't, again, I could be throwing you out with no life preserver here.

Does soccer have an analytical kind of growth model? Are they dealing? Because I'm seeing it in the NFL. I'm seeing it, you know, in the NFL and football in general, put your best athlete at quarterback. In basketball, mid-range jumper out, baseball, home run strikeouts. Have you ever heard, is there a new soccer? analytic or Sabermetric driving the sport? No, all I know is that there are people who are doing the analysis.

I just don't know. Okay. I just don't know. I don't know who's taking it and using it. But look who's buying soccer teams, right? I mean, Billy Bean's part owner of two or three of them. Yeah. So presumably, yes. Yeah.

Michael Lewis joining us. He has a podcast against the rules with Michael Lewis. Now, season one was about referees in American life. Yep. We talked about it. Yes, yes. Now, season two is about the rise of coaches. So in one episode, you talk about the bloodless coach.

Now, I'm told here it has something to do with Moneyball. Explain to the audience what a bloodless coach is because that's season two of your podcast. Well, so it's not about the bloodless coach, but there is an episode about the rise of science and the use of data in coaching, which is which you see, and it's not just in sports. and the season's not just about sports. But there was a wonderful book called The MVP Machine, which came out last year, which is kind of showing the way baseball coaching has, very recently just changed pretty dramatically,

and it's gone from being a bunch of guys who played the game who kind of like talk to you and made you feel good to people actually analyzing data about, you know, the speed of your arm and, you know, the trajectory of your swing. and kind of deconstructing baseball players and building them back using data. And the kind of person who's doing this is not someone necessarily even played the game. It's sort of like the geekification of coaching.

And the effects have been pretty remarkable. I mean, we talked to the, you know, pitchers who walk into a lab and come out with six or seven miles an hour on their fastball. So the question I was asking is like, because it was money ball, a question was it wasn't, it wasn't just baseball, right? It was like, this is happening in baseball. Where else might it happen? We actually take it, but we go from sports and go into like sales pitches. Like if you're a salesman now at a big company, there's some chance your call is being analyzed in all kinds of ways, and you're getting data about what was effective and what was not. And then you build that back into the next sales pitch.

So it's sort of like the extension of the money ball mentality into coaching, which just it took a long time to happen. I mean, that was the one part of baseball. When I finished money ball, it was really true, as the authors of the MVP machine point out, that the frontal office had applied these methods to the selection of players, but they hadn't applied to the development of players. And that's what's happening now. But can all players be coached? well all players you know it's a it's a great question whether people will respond to it or not but uh but when you show kind of dramatic results athletes tend to grab it right uh so i i think that

this kind of coaching unlike the kind of coaching where you just kind of got to take my word for it uh is more is much more likely to be adopted um and so so i think i think generally yes Yeah. Michael Lewis is joining us, author and noted podcast Hote, multiple New York Times selling books. You know, you can dive deep or you can do, you have macro views of the world. And that's one of the reasons I think people appreciate you. And I find fascinating in this pandemic. First of all, big states with lots of space appear to be less punitively hit. You know, dense housing, multi-generational living globally can be tougher. how do you pivot? Big macro, this is a thinking man's question to you. How do you pivot from death to the economy and do it with sensitivity? Because we've got 32 million people to file for unemployment. Those numbers are even compared to post-9-11, unbelievably daunting.

How do you do it delicately? Do you have to understand there's backlash? How do you lead discussion? as a commissioner or CEO going from death to rebooting or restarting the economy? Our country has made one huge mistake. And sort of the unwillingness of federal leadership to centralize the problem has meant that testing, the way you know, the way you pivot in the smart way is you find out where the virus is and you isolate it in a much more nuanced way than we're doing it now.

you let a lot of people go back to work because they can. And the problem is we have 30,000 new cases of this thing every day, and people don't know who has it or who's about to get it. And so when you open up the economy, as we're doing now or slowly, which you're essentially doing it with the same lack of information that you had when you locked it down. And it's really a shame that we wasted these couple of months not dramatically testing the population.

That's how you do. That's the easy answer was, the best solution was, you find out where the virus is and how it moves. And then you don't have to ask so many hard questions. You let a lot of people, you know, out of their houses. What you do now, I don't have an answer. I mean, I tell you what's going to happen is that people are bored with being at home and they need their jobs. And so everybody's going to kind of start going back to work and there's going to be carnage. So there's no delicate way to do it.

I mean, I think we're going to yo-yo now between like fear of the disease and economic need. Yeah, the guilt of not working. And what that creates, by the way, massive unemployment increases poverty, generational poverty. No, it's funny. I saw a story today where people confirmed that masks help. And I thought, we're just figuring that out.

Well, this is the thing, right? We have not used, we have not used the tool of science as well as we could have used the tool of science. Now, that's changing, I think, actually. I think what's happening is that the society is starting to compensate for the absence of leadership and just kind of taking matters into its own hands. I've been working on a wonderful story that I'm playing out in pieces in Bloomberg News about the Chan Zuckerberg Bio Hub, which is in San Francisco, where they just turned a research. named Joe DeRisi, just turn the lab into a coronavirus testing lab inside of three weeks. And he's all of a sudden got, you know, he could process 3,000 tests a day, and he can shine this flashlight anywhere he wants.

Like, where is this thing? Where is the virus and how do we isolate it? And that kind of thing we're going to see a lot more of, I think. So I think we're going to bounce, but it's just, it's such a shame that it wasn't. We're like a poorly coached team right now. That's what it feels like. We're like a losing team, and we're losing not because we don't have talent, It's because we're poorly coached.

Yeah. All right. Michael Lewis is his name, author, podcast host. The podcast is Against the Rules with Michael Lewis. We don't get you enough. You're a very busy person. I would love, when does your article come out that we could read? Well, the first piece of it.

It's just, it's a series in Bloomberg News, a period like 10 days ago. And the next one will be tomorrow, and then there'll be another one a week from now. They're a learning machine, and I'm learning with them. All right. Thank you so much, Michael. All right, Colin. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert. smiglin friends on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts

hey what's good y'all you're listening to learn the hard way with your favorite therapist and host kear games this space is about black men's experiences having honest conversations that's really not safe to have anywhere but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing how many men carry a suit or armor it signals to the world that you not to be played with and just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff.

Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. A rep.

My mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.