The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Best of The Herd for May 11, 2020

Episode Date: May 11, 2020

The Michael Jordan/David Stern suspension conspiracy is dumbUFC wasn't scared of backlash and it paid off over the weekendWhere Colin was right and wrongGuest: David Falk, Michael Jordan's Agent  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors.

Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild. I mean, it was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing.

How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for listening to the best of Heard Podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Heard. This is the best of the herd with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio.

Here we go on a Monday, live in Los Angeles. This is The Herd, wherever you may be. And however you may be listening, we are live in Los Angeles on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. Loaded show today, David Falk, Michael Jordan's agent, super agent. Many said he and David Stern and Michael ran the league joins us next hour. Tim Grover, Michael Jordan's longtime excellent trainer. He was a trainer to Kobe, was a trainer to Dee Wade.

He'll be joining us next hour as well. One hour from now, Colin Wright, Colin Wrong. So we are packed. I just got a text this morning from Bill Simmons. He wants to be on this week and we want to have him on this week. So that'll be great. And Joy Taylor's joining me. Joy, how are you?

I'm great. It was a great weekend. Happy Mother's Day. It's all the moms. Everyone had a great day. Uh-huh. Absolutely. It was an awesome day.

So there are a lot of different ways to go on the last dance. I got a sneak peek. I got to watch both episodes early. I went and watched both again. That's how fond I am of it. One of my favorite moments was Michael Jordan and David Stern. Shooting down the Michael Jordan was suspended for gambling, a rumor. This has always been a nonsense rumor.

but for all you conspiracy people out there, just remember, commissioners are paid by owners. The idea that you could walk to owners, the NBA had never been this popular. All the owners were getting rich, and they were getting rich, and all the valuations of their franchises were going up because the TV ratings were massive because of Michael Jordan.

With all due respect to the Orlando Magic and Rick Smiths, and John Starks, the ratings were great because of Michael Jordan. That you could go to them and say, hey, we're going to suspend Michael for 18 months. Why? Nobody was bothered by it. You didn't care as a fan. I didn't care. I didn't care.

NBC didn't care. The owners didn't care. Nobody cared. I mean, media people, but they care about a lot of things we don't. And I don't even know if the media cared. Nobody cared. So you'd walk up to the owners and go, yeah, we're going to get rid of him. Why? Because he bets while golfing.

And the owners would think, yeah, so do I. Doesn't everybody? I'm not even good at golf. I bet golfing. Doesn't everybody? It's just absurd. Magic and Bird were gone. Michael was driving the ratings. It was making everybody rich.

And the idea, the funny part about this, the funny part about the rumors of David Stern, who laughed it off, and Michael laughed it off. I mean, when people just laugh about rumors, you can tell when somebody's lying. They're all just rolling their eyes at it. The idea that you'd suspend Michael for 18 months. Isn't that kind of a random number? So I'm supposed to believe David Stern called Michael.

Michael, this is Commissioner Stern. You've been suspended for 18 months. And Michael would go. So I can come back next year, halfway through it? Yes, I know that makes no sense. but I'm going to suspend you this year, and then next year, baseball is going to go on strike, and you're not going to cross the picket line, and you come back. And then Michael would go, how do you know there's going to be a strike?

And David would go, I don't know. It's amazing, isn't it? It hasn't happened, but I'm predicting it. Even though nobody knows it's happening and nobody thinks it's happening, I'm predicting a baseball strike. And then we'll just let you wade back in. I mean, it's so stupid. There's two problems with conspiracy theorists. Number one, they're losers.

Number two is, even if you give them facts, they hold on to their conspiracy theory like they did their teddy bear when they were 20. Yeah, conspiracy theorists hold on to teddy bears at 20. The rest of us give them up at seven. It made no sense. It was the Patrick Ewing. Remember the frozen envelope rumor? This is another absurd rumor.

So David Stern was this young litigator, super smart guy, chief counsel for the NBA. Great future. In 1984, they give him the job as NBA commissioner. And immediately he's a home run. I'm supposed to believe he's going to throw his entire professional legacy and career down the drain, seven figures, to freeze an envelope and make sure Patrick Ewing ends up with a New York Knicks. For the record, Adam Silver makes over $25 million a year, and the Knicks are horrible. Commissioners all make seven, eight figures a year. It doesn't matter how good New York team are? It doesn't. What is the digital growth? The television ratings growth. What is the global growth of the NBA? Global growth is a big deal. The idea that you need teams to win. If Roger

Godell was tied to the New York teams, his salary would be a third of what it is today. The Sates, the Packers, are significantly better than New York teams in the NFL. Oklahoma City's better run than the New York teams. David Stern's going to throw his career away. That'd be like working your entire career to be an administration as a high school principal. And you're a lady and you've had a great, you go to college and you're a teacher and then you're a vice principal. And then you become principal of a high school, very nice high school, and you've worked very hard.

And then the minute you get the job, you're like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to have, I'm going to dip into a slush fund and ruin my career for an extra $7,000 every 18 months. I'm just going to dip into that and ruin my entire career. Why would you do that? You have a great career. You can have a pension. It's a school.

Yeah, I don't know why I do that. That would be dumb, but I'm going to do that. I'm sure you can find an example of a teacher that one time did that, but they're not very smart. David Stern was really smart. It's just like the death of Michael Jordan's dad. He was murdered by two creeps, two violent criminals who had robbed banks before they did that. I'm supposed to believe Michael Jordan owed somebody $35,000 in a golf debt. And they went and found two hillbillies who rob banks.

And they knew his dad, rural road, parked a car, slept. They tracked him and chaired. You didn't even have GPS back then. You didn't have radar. I mean, folks, none of this stuff, my favorite part of this is the two things about this documentary I love. Number one, Jordan's an alpha male. And in a time where anybody that's got a little alpha, it's called toxic masculinity, Michael's like, I'm a guy.

I'm not apologizing for who I am. This is how I work. I'm tough. I'm into winning. If you're not, I don't care about you. I so appreciate a guy not worrying about how it lands on social media. It's just refreshing to have a guy say, hey, you're either into winning or I got no use for you. It's refreshing.

I got to be honest. It's refreshing to not be consumed with how everything lands. just here's who I am. I'm old school. It's okay to be old school. I joke. I've been eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches six, seven days a week

for three months. It's not my favorite thing, but it's okay to embrace some old school mentality. We know Michael's smart. He's been a great businessman, but if he wants to go old school on that, I'm down for it.

And my second favorite thing is shooting holes in a lot of nonsense. The conspiracy stuff with Michael Jordan's father's death is nonsense. Literally, Tim Grover, the trainer. You know, it's this idea that Michael just, he was forced out. Tim Grover, who's on our show next hour, the trainer,

acknowledged in his book years ago. Michael told him a year out, I needed baseball body. I'm going to go play baseball. An author on one of Michael Jordan's book, he admitted last night. He said, yeah, Michael told me during the dream team, I'm going to go play baseball. And he said, when? He goes, I got to win a third championship. row because Magic and Bird haven't done that.

We know Michael's competitive and he goes, after that, I'm going to go play baseball. I'm worn out. We know Michael was worn out. We know he couldn't go in public. So it's just, it's been so refreshing. Michael is unapologetically old school on certain things. Not everything but certain things. I love that.

And it's been able to puncture all these nonsensical. I mean, like, there are certain things. When people come up to me, they're overwhelmingly nice. But one of the non-starters where I just will roll my eyes at people is when they throw a conspiracy theory at me. I just, I can't, I can't take, in the history of conspiracy theories, I'm sure some have been

right, but I still can't find one in sports that's been right, and they're just nonsense. And the MJ gambling stuff, he was forced to leave. Makes no sense. You have multiple people that knew he was playing baseball. And by the way, you can make an argument. He would have stayed in baseball if not for the strike. I mean, Michael was in debate. Everybody around him is like, no, no, he's into this stuff.

Like, he loves baseball. You can't go to the South, have batting practice for four hours, blisters on your hands because, yeah, I was forced into baseball. If Michael was forced into baseball, he wouldn't have spent four hours in a batting cage with sores on his hands. He was into baseball. Like old school, he's an old school soul, right? Be sure to catch live editions of the herd, weekdays and noon Easter,

9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsClace on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience

in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough

because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little camp? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we picket here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill,

waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'allon. But just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth.

And on my podcast, The Clivert, So I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue with 42.

Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to The Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Great weekend for the UFC. The fight card was unbelievably good, and I applaud them for having the courage to go back. The NFL, this is not going to be, if you're a commissioner of a sport, a time to be timid.

There's going to be athletes that get COVID. Look at your revenue. UFC said, all right, couple people, couple trainers got it. We're ready to go. it ended up being one of the best fight cards they've ever had. It was the most bet fight card they've ever had, like anything in life. In life, you take a big swing, you have a better chance to hit a home run. I thought they hit a home run.

UFC also was very much on brand. They're aggressive, they're rebels, they're outliers, they're mavericks. And they said, listen, we're not paralyzed by perfection here. If somebody gets it, we get it. These are great young athletes. the percentages are beyond minimal that they would have serious physical repercussions. We're going to go for it. And I thought it was a great card.

The most amazing thing was Tony Ferguson's a champ. He got blistered by Justin Gachie in a great main event fight. Justin Gachie is now a new rock star. You know, when you're the only thing going on in sports, I sat there and watched every second of it. And I watched Justin Gachie and I thought, wow, we got to be a new rock star. a new star in UFC. And he is now in line to fight Kabib, who is 28-0, perhaps the greatest UFC fighter, arguably ever.

So we're going to have the biggest UFC pay-per-view event of all time when Justin Gagee faces unbeaten Khabi, and I can't wait for it. But again, if you look at the people, the NFL is alpha. NFL's like, we're going to hold the draft. A lot of people said he can't do it. They pulled it off. said, we're going to go for it. We're not seeking perfection. They not only pulled it off, they hit a home run, because there is a sympathetic kind of sense that if you are willing to

roll the dice on this and you can pull it off, and you know, you have a COVID patient. Again, it could happen. These are young athletes. I think you're going to get a lot of support from the public. Remember, for any business to work, you need customers. You can open up restaurants it's all you want. If they don't get customers, they go out of business. So UFC had huge customers, huge pay-per-view, huge betting. NASCAR is next. I think they'll hit it out of the park. I thought it was a great card. California's did get out of here. They found Florida. Thank God we have states. We have liberal governors, conservative governors. I'm glad I live in a country with both. I don't agree with either side ever. I'm an independent voter. But I thought Florida won,

and I thought the UFC won. I thought it was fantastic. One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Right wrong. Here we go on Monday. Where Colin was right?

The UFC, much like Michael Jordan, very much alpha. UFC has had nothing but a fight. The boxing people didn't like it. The late John McCain threw it off cable, and Dana White has got no interest. listening to his critics. He went Alpha. He said, we're moving it to Florida.

And I don't give a rip what ESPN thinks. We're doing it. And they did it and they hit it out of the park. If you are paralyzed by the crisis, you're not built to run a network and you're not built to run a sport. You just have to manage it. We lose 47,000 people a year to suicide. We manage it. It's awful.

But Dana White has said from the very beginning, We're not stopping our sport. We're going to be incredibly careful. We're going to test everybody four to five times a week, but life has to go on at some point. He led the charge. Congratulations. It was a great card with a great number one fight.

Terrific job of the announcing team. Set a record for sports bets on the UFC. Where Colin was raw. The New England Patriots have five primetime games on TV, according to the schedule. makers? How? They're not a top 10 team next year to watch. Jared Stidham and no weapons? What? Are the league executives watching the league I'm watching? I want to watch the Cleveland Browns. I want to watch Joe Burrell. The fact that the Patriots without Brady got five

primetime games, I'll make another prediction. They'll be some of the lowest prime time games. After maybe the first time you watched Jared Stidham, be average. That shocked me. I figured Brady gone, buck games on, Belichick and guys off the TV screen. But nope, the max you can have is five, they got five. Where Colin was right. Jay Glazer went public with something we've been saying for probably a year. Big Ben doesn't work out in the offseason.

He's the anti-Rustle Wilson. He's the anti-Tom Brady. He's the anti-Drew Breeze. And this is why I have questions about a 38-year-old Big Ben. coming back and just be humming like he worked out all last season. This has been a rumor I've heard for years. I've gotten at source and finally confirmed by Jay Glazer last week who said, you know, Big Ben's idea of a workout in the offseason is a yoga class and some beers.

Finally, Jay Glazer reporting what I had heard for years, which is Big Ben, cross your fingers if he's in shape. That's not what he is in the off season. Where Colin was wrong. Cam Newton got over himself a little and acknowledged last week, according to a report, he's willing to be a backup. One of the knocks I've heard from league executives, and Greg Popovich says this all the time, I'm not going to draft you until you get over yourself. One of the knocks on Cam, he's never kind of gotten over being Cam, but for Cam to go out and say, okay, I'll be a backup.

Like James Winston's like, I'm going to be a backup. Multiple teams showed interest. Saints, really good organization, said, all right, we'll give you a run. Cam's jersey sales, by the way, are not top 10 in the league. I think he thinks he's a bigger star than he is. And right now, if it's a backup job, it's a foot in the door. It's a foot in the door for a team like a Pittsburgh or whoever that may need a quarterback eight games into the season. Where Colin was right?

We've always felt that Miami had to draft Tua, that he had a star quality. And even if Tua only played two or three years, the merchandise sales, his ability to sort of synthesize that organization. Well, Tua now is a star day one. The home Miami Dolphin jersey is the number one seller in the league. And the road Miami Dolphin jersey is the number two seller in the league. There's a quality to Tua that Joe Burrow, I don't think has. He has a star quality that is hard to put your arms around.

But we really always felt Miami has to draft him. Even if it doesn't work, he's going to get that. Miami's distracted. They got the beaches. They got the shopping. Miami's always, when you look out your window and see aqua water, it's a distraction. Miami needs stars, not just a good football team. And I think they have it with Tua.

Where Colin was right? We've always said the NFL's pretty cutthroat. They see their league as a TV show and a real estate office. What did they do? New schedule. They're going to play on Christmas Day. Yep. Drew Breeze, Saints, Vikings Christmas Day.

Cutthroat. has always been sort of a gentleman's agreement. You know what? They're good guys. No, the NFL finally said, we're not giving America's number one family holiday to the NBA. Why are we giving it to the NBA? And so they scheduled a Friday afternoon game on Christmas. And for the record, if the saints are as good as I think and the Vikings are as good as they think, and I think they're both going to win their division, that's going to get a monster number.

and the NBA will get very, very small numbers. Where Colin was wrong. I said multiple times in the last couple years, I think USC football is kind of a dead program and needs to make a head coaching change, even though I like Clay Helton. They, and nobody's quite sure why this is, some are saying the virus is making kids recruit,

stay closer to home, but Southern California kids now are overwhelmingly signing with USC football. They replaced their defensive coordinator. They brought in Dante Williams, the number one West Coast recruiter from Oregon. He's now a Trojan. They are having an unbelievable recruiting class, top three to top five in the nation. I thought the energy was gone. I thought the program felt like it was just spinning out of control.

But this new staff, Dante Williams, and again, more kids have signed early this year than the last five years. Something about the virus. close to family, Southern California kids are back into USC. Where Colin was right? We've always defended Jimmy Garoppolo, thought it was nonsense that he took heat for losing the Super Bowl, and Richard Sherman came out last week and said it's foolish to blame him. He said he doesn't play defense.

That was our bigger factor. He is now the second high-profile 49er. Didn't have to to come out publicly and say, it's a joke. Jimmy G. for the records, 21 and 5 as a starter and led and outplayed Patrick Mahomes until the fourth quarter. This stuff is nonsense. Where Colin was right? Last week, midweek, the NFL announced

the past interference replay is officially mercifully over. It was garbage. I hated it. It was an overreaction to the Saints. For some reason, the League always feels like it's got to protect the

Saints. Listen, great franchise. Well run, top to bottom. This was a classic overreaction to one really bad call. The idea that lost the game for the Saints, excuse me, but the game went to overtime, and the Saints had the ball in overtime. Isn't that the knock on the overtime rule that a team can get the overtime kick and never have to give it back?

The Saints had the ball at home, couldn't move, couldn't stop the Rams. The replay, pass interference replay, was ridiculous. And the NFL, they're not even going to hold a vote on it because nobody would vote for it. And the officials, in their own way, protested it all season long, as they should have. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody. telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode,

we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month,

I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth.

And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, Hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42.

Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. It's really actually an honor to have in David Falk, who, when I, started watching the NBA, you know, 30 years ago, 25 years ago, he represented not only Michael Jordan, but more than 100 NBA players.

And he got the player. He understood the player, but he also had, I'm sure it was a tough relationship at times with David Stern. I mean, because, well, maybe not. Maybe I should just ask him. I'm interested to how he dealt with Jerry Krause, because I'm watching the documentary and Jerry Krause is wearing me out. I don't know if I had to call him twice a day.

I don't know how much I could handle that. David Falks Sports Agent. a legend to me is joining us. David, you're a busy guy. Thank you very much for taking time for our show today. My pleasure. I watch it from time to time when you're around the round the horn and stuff, so enjoy it. Let me start with this. I watch Jerry Krause, and I cannot believe it drives me nuts, that it was almost a contentious relationship with Michael. Now, is that being exaggerated in this documentary? or was it contentious often for Michael's time in Chicago?

I mean, jury was an insecure guy. And I think the person who best described Krause in a nutshell in one sentence was David Hopper's day, I think, is the greatest author in the last 50 years. He wrote a book about Michael. And he said, Krauss probably deserved more credit than he was given and a lot less than he asked for. and because Jerry was insecure, he constantly tried to make it a point that it was the organization winning, not the players. And the irony is the owner of the team Jerry Rastorf. I've an incredible respect for fun.

I really like him. He's really smart. He owns two teams, the White Sox and the Bowls. And he really, in my opinion, used Krause as a filter just for exactly. He could describe it. He'd get people so exasperated that by the time they went to the Court of Appeals, which is him. They were way more malleable. So I tried very hard.

I rarely dealt with Jerry Krauss. I mean, I did all my deals at Rydorf. We had a very close person relationship. And, you know, to mark respect when you have, you know, top players, you don't usually deal with the GMs. You deal with the owners. Now, Michael had a long contract when he first

got into the league, and many people said he and Pippen were both underpaid. Did you ever at one point try to go in and renegotiate that? Well, Michael's first contract was done by by boss Donald L. Even though I also had a basketball, he didn't ask my opinion,

he asked me to join him for the negotiations, sort of incredibly, like having Bill Belichick on the one-yard line with one play left in the Super Bowl, it calls the timeout, and he doesn't ask his office as a coordinator to have to get a running, you know, 35 belly flop, you know, Z,

what do you think? He just runs the play and loses. So Michael is behind the eight ball from day one. As well, most of the players in that generation. Yeah. You know, Grand Hill, Isaiah, how about Magic signing a 25, year deal for $25 million, one year before Patrick signed a 10-year deal for 3.2 a year. So they were both underpaid.

Michael redid his deal after the fourth year. He became by far the highest paid player in the league. I told him about what you sign. It will never reflect your value until you become a free agent. Most players in his generation, virtually every one of them, never became a free agent. They all wanted security, and security has a price. So Michael finally got, you know, more what he was worth in 1996 when he became on a restrictive free agent. And he could have signed for $30 million.

He could have signed to $80 million. I mean, he was worth whatever. You could have, you could make an easy argument he was worth $100 million. But they couldn't have a good team. And so the point of his second contract for me was to put him in an arena where no one else could go in. He was there by himself. There was Garnett, making 21, and Michael making him 30. And it took 17 years for someone to hit $30 million after he signed my contract in 1996.

So it stood the test at times. Yes, it did. David, was it, David Falk, a sports agent, David did, Nike doesn't have a salary cap. So was it easier to negotiate with Nike, even though the money was so massive? I mean, listen, it comes down to math. Michael was selling so many. He still sells more shoes than anybody else. Were the Nike negotiations because of what you were making, which is a,

still today a bloody fortune. Were those ever contentious? No, because the guy, Rob Strauss was the head of marketing for Nike, and he and I, by 1984, developed an extremely close relationship. We basically didn't have negotiations. I would tell him what I thought was fair. He trusted me. It was very little back and forth. And, you know, the irony of the Air Jordan deal, it's probably the best deal ever made and it's probably the worst deal ever made because no one had a clue, including Nike, that you could sell $100 million worth of shoes for a rookie in his first year.

Their goal, as I've said, on a number of interviews all over the Twitter world, their goal was to get to $3 million by like 1987. If I knew we were going to sell $100 million in year one, I would have asked him for a dollar a year and a $50.50 world. And he would be making a billion now. So a lot of this, you know, you just didn't know it could exist. Right. No player before him had their own shoe.

Magic didn't have a shoe, Bird didn't have a shoe, Doc didn't have a shoe, Isaiah didn't have a shoe, Jabbar didn't have a shoe. No one had their own shoe in basketball. The only player that I could remember outside of tennis or golf that had a shoe was O.J. Simpson with a really small company called Spot Belt that we actually talked to for Michael. So, you know, the deal was groundbreaking more in terms of disproving the notion that a player had to be in the league five years and establish himself before you. could become marketable. Michael broke all the

boundaries and today all the young players that want to have a brand even though I think 99.9% them don't remotely even have a brand and they spent oodles of dollars with these huge agencies trying to do their social media consulting. You know

Michael, you said sells more than Michael sells more than every player who has their own shoe combined. But right now, probably times two. You know, he sells twice as much as Underarmers, company. Wow. Did you remember where you were, long drive at home in your office, the moment you found out Michael was going to play baseball? I was home. He called me. It was a two-pronged

attack, if you will. He called me at home on a Saturday, about 11th morning. And you have to understand our relationship. Michael is an amazingly great friend, the best. I mean, he's an amazing friend. He's loyal. He's sensitive. He's considerate. He really makes you feel special when you're a friend. But he loves to tweak you. So he called me at home and he said, hey, just want you to know I'm going to retire. And I knew he expected me to come right back and say, oh, God, you can't retire. You're 29. The top of your game. And I fought all by basic human instincts to

respond. Just do what I really do. People know who know me say, this is rare. I just shut up for about 30 seconds. And I said, it's in the following. Okay. I said, what are you thinking of doing? I said, I want to play baseball, which I wasn't surprised because he had talked about it with his dad. I wasn't surprised that that would be what he would do if he ever retired. And so I said to, it's the American dream to work really, really hard at something. Become the best at it, make a ton of money.

And when you make the ton of money, at that point, you can do it every hell you want. You can retire, you can play golf, you go to the Bahamas. If what satisfies you at this point is baseball, go for it. I think it takes an incredible amount of courage, Colin, for a player who's the best in the world, maybe at any sport, but certainly at his sport, to give it up in his prime. And to go play something, he hasn't played since the junior high. Could you imagine if you went to Major League baseball player today, who's 29, who played JV basketball in junior high, and said, we're going to put you in the G league tomorrow.

Do you think he can average 50? Do you think he can average 50? We'll give you one month to train. you think he can average 15 points. And so when he batted at 200 and double a ball, it was eye poppin. And, you know, he wasn't Derek Jeter, but, you know, he also hadn't played baseball probably in, you know, 15 years. No, I led my show today saying I think he's a little better at baseball than I gave him credit for. I told my kids watching this documentary, I said the important thing to remember is Oprah got fired and Michael Jordan got turned down and tackled for years by Detroit that he even,

even for the greats. Michael had good parents. He had good representation. He had a great coach. He had, you know, handsome, stylish. And, you know, Adidas and Converse are like, nah, I'm like, life is hard. And one of the hardest parts, and I've defended Michael on this, is the gambling stuff. Was there ever a moment, David, that you called him and just offered concern? You'd heard something and thought, you know, I mean, the stories were out there about he liked to gamble. Did it ever concern you? Well, first of all, my dad was a compulsive gambler. He was a butcher.

My dad never finished high school. I'd never earned $30,000 his life and went to the track almost every day, hoping he hit the exact end up to work anymore. So I'm very, very sensitive to gambling. You know, I think when Michael gambles and he's, you know, losing $50,000, that would like you, you know, playing nine holes would be a betting me a nickel. I mean, it's irrelevant. Was I concerned?

Of course, I was concerned more about the end. impact on his on his image because he's squeaky clean as you then come from good parents comes from amazing amazing parents his parents are amazing people and if you want to know in the dock where he got that incredible competitive fire just look to dolores and james they constantly urged him to continue to get better not as a player as a human being to constantly improve to read to broaden your interests they're really amazing people and he played for dean smith that Carolina, who's clearly one of the greatest college coaches of all time. He wasn't like a solo pilot at Carolina.

He played with James Worthing. He was the number one pick in 1982. He played with Brad Doherty, who's the number one pick in 1986. Sam Perkins, who's the number four pick. He had really good players on the team, and he wasn't the best player at his college team at the time. That was clearly James Worthy. He was the MVP when they won the title of New Orleans.

So Michael has amazing values. He's got a strong foundation. I've said this hundreds of times. There may be players that come along that are more talented to Michael Jordan, than maybe players that are better shooters than Michael Jordan. I don't think they'll ever, ever be another player that has the fortuitous mix of the parental background he has, the pedigree at North Carolina with a coach who drove him to become not only the best offensive player, but one of the greatest defensive players

in the history of the game. And to have the intelligence and the drive that he has, it's just a unique combination. I've had hundreds of players, great players, representing some great coaches like John Thompson, Coach K, you know, I don't think they'll ever be another player in the end, be the right. David Falk joining us.

You know, Michael took, he was, and I don't know if it would be different today with social media, but I do believe if you have strong parents and strong foundational systems, you're less inclined to be concerned about what others outside of that sphere think of you. and Michael would give a donation to a political person, but he didn't want to go public with it. Do you think Michael would be allowed today with the world we live in to be as ambivalent about politics or as his agent,

do you think you would perhaps prod him to do political activism at some level? First of all, the answer to second question is no. I think that every person has to choose the extent that you want to be involved, whether it's politics, charity, you know, good, good, good works. It's got to come from inside. And Michael was involved in politics. He just didn't, he just didn't discuss it publicly. He supported a lot of people.

He gave millions of dollars to different candidates, different causes. You know, he just didn't do it publicly. And no matter what he did, there'd be a group of people that said he should have done more, maybe people thinks he should have done less. And, you know, there's a great quote to, I know, self be true. You've got to do what works for. you. Now, I can tell you personally, having been sort of in the middle of the eye of the hurricane for many years with the kind of clients I had, you know, no matter what I did, I had a group

of people that would always tell me you're too greedy, you're too short-sized. I didn't really give a damn what they thought. I had my own values. I was doing what I thought was right for my clients, and you know you're going to get criticism. And when I was about 35, John Thompson, who's my my mentor. He's my male mentor. My mom is my mentor. Pearl Faw. John is like my male mentor. I love the man. He's taught me more than any man I've ever met my life. He called me in his office. He said, son, you have a very serious problem. I'd like to discuss with you. I got really, really nervous. I don't know where he was going. I said, really, what is that? He goes, do you want people to like you? I said, of course. It's a very basic human instinct. He said, son, when you walk into an owner's office, you ask that guy to pay $100 million for a hip, pub guy like Alan Iverson, he's going to hate your guts. And if that bothers you, quit the business. What you should worry about is that your clients like you and that the people working with respect you. And that was amazing in its simplicity. You know, I took that advice to heart. And, you know, like, I'm not going to quote you the whole thing, but there's a famous quote

from Teddy Roosevelt. It's not the critic that counts. It's not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the duer of these could have done the better. The credit belongs to the man in the arena whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who drives value, et cetera. That's, he's got to do what he thinks is best, not what 25 different people tell him he should be doing. And if he didn't do that, he would never have been as successful as he had if he wasn't grounded and had his own guiding principles. And whether it happened in the 80s, the 90s, 20 years from now, or 50 years ago,

really doesn't matter the time and the social media. matters is what your values are. How did you, when you recruited Michael as an age. Stop, stop. We didn't, we didn't recruit Michael. There was no recruiting back then. I mean, this is, today, the agent business is there are rules, but the union does not enforce. When Michael became an owner in Washington, I had to step down as his agent. Do you think I wanted to do that, step down from representing the goat?

Those are the rules. And so in the day, at the top schools of the country, North Carolina with Coach Smith at George Town with John Thompson, Duke at Indiana, Bobby Knight, Rick Petino. There was no recruiting allowed. If Dean Speth would say to you, if you tell me that you were driving in Wilmington, North Carolina, you bumped it to the Lawrence Jordan at the Red Line, you know, food store, you're out. Don't say you're sorry. Don't say you didn't know.

You're out. No contact whatsoever. You could have one hour at the end of the time. He'd invite three or four groups, and that's all. there were very few groups that were like today there are really very few groups that are qualified to do it and he picked top four or five agents and he brought him in and he would recommend to the players who he felt was the best for them and it was like the pope speaking that's how we got michael we did no recruiting whatsoever I could sit and talk to you forever. I don't know if you ever get to Los Angeles. I'd like to take you to dinner and just listen to you for about six hours and ask you 100 questions.

You know, one of these days, I've got off my ass and knew my own, my daughter, my younger daughter, Jocelyn, lives in Brett when she works for Wondering, which is a podcast company. And I've been talking about four or five different groups, talking to one at three o'clock. I love doing this because it's fun. And talking, you know, you have to understand, I don't think they'll ever be an agent in the Hall of Fame, you know, but be. representing Michael Jordan and Patrick Ewing back to back for me is like being in the Hall of Fame. I mean, there's no great honor if you're an agent than to represent the greatest player who ever live the entirety of his career. And there aren't enough words in the English language for you to thank Michael for supporting me, staying with me the whole time for his loyalty, his trust. I mean, he allowed me to become who I became, you know, and it spoke volumes when you said Michael Jordan's, and that.

That's the greatest. You know, it's the greatest. You don't need social media. You don't need social media to promote that. You don't need Twitter or Instagram. Everyone in the world knew that I represented. I'll tell you last day, I'll let you go. I went to China in 2011 with one of my clients, Evan Turner, to do a promotional tour for a shoe company leaning.

And he did about eight stores. I was getting so bored. And so I just walked out on the street, sat down on a park bench. you know, just away from him to come out of the store. And this young kid about 13 years old walks up to be and says to me, excuse me, are you Michael Jordan's agent? Now, he didn't ask for you Evan Turner's agent because he happened to be there. And that's Michael, that's not me.

That's Michael's so well-known and revered that, you know, just being on his team is the best honor. You know, it doesn't matter whether you're a starter or reserve. It doesn't matter how much credit. So what Jerry Krause never learned, Colin, is that, He eventually had six rings. If he had never said a word of all the what he said about organizations, way in and how greatest coaching staff is, you know, it's hilarious.

He just said nothing. The only two people remotely in that time period who had six rings were at Arborack and Pat Riley. He was in very, more Michael's books. He was in rare air. And the more he asked for the credit, the less people want to give him the money. And I learned that, you know, when I started working for Michael, I'd been in the business 10 years already. I'd represented James Worthy, Phil Ford,

a lot of great Carolina players. I represented John Thompson. I'd been a junior agent for Arthur Ash and Stan Smith and tennis. And I was as cock as you could imagine when we did Brand Jordan, and we did McDonald's and Coca-Cola, Chevrolet and Upper Deck and we're doing electronic arts. We were freaking killing it. We were doing things no one had ever done before.

And I was unbearably cocky. But after a couple of years, it hit me that, wow, you know, Michael can't have anyone in the world represented him. He can have the biggest law firm, biggest accounting firm, biggest PR firm. You could have William Morris, you get a big Hollywood agency, can anybody. But he had me, and I just became happy to be on the team and stopped trying to tell him what I was doing. I think your body works speaks for itself. What a pleasure this has been. David Falk, don't go into the podcast business.

just come on to my show once every couple months and we'll be good. You'll be happy with that. It'll be just a nice life. A lot less work, right? David, thank you so much. It was a lot of fun. I enjoyed it. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

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