The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Best of The Herd for May 20, 2020

Episode Date: May 20, 2020

Dak is going too far and the Cowboys should let him hit the open marketMJ trampled people and it created enemies including former teammatesLeBron is not built for the NFL despite a reported contract offer in 2011Guests: Nick Wright, FS1's 'First Things First'Daryl Morey, Houston Rockets GM Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Heard. is the best of the herd with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio. Ah, here we go on a loaded Wednesday. I cannot believe there's this many topics. Live in Los Angeles, this is the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, we're on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. Joy Taylor is joining me, Darry, Rockets, General.

General Manager joins us top of next hour. Nick Wright this hour. We're going to play a game called Diss and Dak. I've gone from being sympathetic to Dak Prescott to just, let's just bail on him if I'm the Cowboys and play Andy Dalton. I've done it in one day based on a story. Enjoy, how are you? I sense you would eventually reach a point of exhaustion with Dak's contract situation. Okay, so here's the latest.

Dak Prescott, Chris Sims is reporting. Dak Prescott, Cowboys have offered he wants. four years and $175 million. That's $35 million a year. That's Russell Wilson's contract. And Russell Wilson's contract's not old. He just signed it. So he thinks he's Russell Wilson.

And then in the last year, DAC wants $45 million. Context. In the last three years in the NFL, Russell Wilson has thrown for 100 touchdown passes. That is 15 more than number two in the league. Look it up. It's Tom Brady.

Blows away everybody in the league, including Tom Brady. Dak has thrown for 74 with a significantly better offensive line, with a superstar running back, and better wide receivers. And Dak had an offensive coach, and you may not like Jason Garrett, but he's an offensive coach. He knows offensive personnel. Since he's been the cowboy coach, look at their offensive draft picks. Jason Garrett has a say, they've been exceptional.

They draft offense, great. Defense, some questions. Dak wants the Russell Wilson contract. Or more. If Dak was on the market today, who'd bid for him? If Russell Wilson's on the market, outside of Kansas City and Baltimore, my 27 teams that would bid for Russell Wilson. I mean, if you hate the Cowboys, you should pray they signed back to this contract,

because it's over. they'll never get better defensively. I mean, I'm to the point now where I'm God from sympathetic to let him hit the market. Let him hit the market. If he's this delusional, let him hit the market. Here's the other thing. People make a big mistake on this. Just because you're wildly underpaid in life does not mean you have the right to a powerball ticket later.

Everybody's underpaid in this league with their first contract. Lamar Jackson right now is making nothing. He's making nothing. He's making significantly less than quarterbacks in his own division named Baker Mayfield. Mahomes is wildly underpaid. If you are good, if you are a really good young quarterback, you're going to be under, Russell Wilson made nothing for four years, made less than a Seattle DJ.

And he was winning Super Bowls. Dax tried to win a playoff game. So this idea I was underpaid in my 20s, I was underpaid in my 20s, Joy was underpaid. Contracts are about two things. Leverage and scarcity. Once they brought in Andy Dalton, where's your leverage? Andy's a reasonable facsimile to DAC.

Where's your leverage? Number two is there's no scarcity. Five years ago, there was scarcity. Now, good God, folks. There's four new quarterbacks in the NFL every year from college. They're all working. First round quarterbacks used to be a first round quarterback. It used to be a 50-50 bust.

Half just couldn't play. Now, five guys drafted in the first round, four very good. Do you think Josh Allen? Josh Allen's a better pro quarterback than he was a college quarterback. I mean, Jalen hurts. Two years ago, he got cut from Alabama. Alabama didn't want him. He got drafted in the second round.

I mean, you've got to be kidding me on this thing. It's a salary cap world. Everybody's underpaid in their 20s. It doesn't mean I give you a powerball ticket. At the end of last year, DAC was not good with a great line with great receivers, with an unbelievable running back, with an offensive coach, he was bad. He couldn't score a touchdown against the Patriots or the Eagles. Well, Jason Garrett stinks.

Well, I'll tell you what, the new coach, Mike McCarthy, can't think too much of him because he's yet to compliment him, and he brought in Andy Dalton. For the record, Tom Brady and Michael Jordan were underpaid their entire career. If you go look at what Brady's made and what Michael made for their talent, you're wildly underpaid. Almost everybody, unless they own their own business, is underpaid. When I worked at my last company, the CEO probably made $8 million a year. The CEO of GoPro made $400 million a year because he owned his own company.

Unless you own your own company, you're going to be underpaid. The company is going to take 80% of the profits. That's the way the game works. And we got a salary cap league. But the idea that DAC wants Russell Wilson's contract, I talked to somebody yesterday in Russell Wilson's camp. Russell Wilson has changed his workout regiment this offseason. Why?

To get thinner. Why? Because the offensive line in Seattle is so patchwork that they're going to finally allow Russell Wilson more say in the offense so he can move more and roll out more and do more what he wants because he's running for his life. He's losing bulk to get thinner because he knows he's going to be running around more. Dak never has that problem.

Wow. I mean, for a long time, I was like, yeah, Dak kind of got underpaid here. Let's pay the young man. Now I'm like, let him at the market. Andy Dalton's 85%. Let him at the market. I can save $33 million a year. Insane.

All right. So the Michael Jordan documentary is over, right? We've moved on. But now, now what is happening to the Michael Jordan documentary is people wanting to discredit it. Now all the grippers and the whiners and Michael was mean. The second tier players, the second tier teammates, the newspaper columnists, what a joyless life. They're all coming out of the woodwork. Yesterday, Horace Grant, grumble, grumble, grumble, grumble, grumble,

went on a radio station, just kind of rambled forever. and talked about Michael Jordan has a grudge against him because Michael Jordan thinks Horace Grant is the person that fed Sam Smith, all the inside dirt and information. Many people think that. Sam denies it, Horace denies it, and Horace grumbled about MJ yesterday.

If MJ had a grudge with me, let's say it like, man, let's talk about it, or we can say it another way. But yet and still, he goes out and put this lie out that I was to source behind. The mere fact that Sam Smith was a investigative reporter, that he had to have two sources to write a book, I guess. Why would MJ just

point me out? It's only a grudge, man. I'm telling him, it was only a grudge. And I think he proved that during this so-called documentary when if you say something about him, he's going to cut you off. He's going to try to destroy your character. Listen, Horace Grant was a good player. not special. He made one all-star team. That's when Michael retired. Is Horace bitter? Because he never got the respect. That's a big deal for guys. He never got the respect he felt he deserved. Let's be honest. If you think Bulls, you think of Michael, you think a Scotty, you think a Rodman, you think a Phil,

you think of shots by Paxson and Kerr, you don't think about Horace Grant. When you think about the Lakers teams he was on, you think Shaq and you think Kobe and you think Kobe's best friend, Derek Fisher, and you think Robert Orie and you don't think. Horace Grant. And when you think about the Orlando teams, you think about Shaq and you think about Penny and those miss free throws by Nick Anderson and you don't think a lot about Horace Grant. Is he bitter? Potentially. He felt like

he was rambling yesterday. You're getting this now. We're trying to psycho-analyze, Michael. Stop. I read an article yesterday by David Roth, New York Magazine, a very sophisticated magazine. Nobody loves writers more than writers. And so all

the writers yesterday were, oh, what's beautiful pros! It was just nonsense. Here's one of the paragraphs. Jordan gave himself entirely to his pursuit, and everything he had went into the furnace to fuel it. That's the story of his life. And while there are many moments in the last dance,

when this seems plainly tragic, moments in which Jordan's life seems empty and cold and joyless. Never? Not once. Joyless is being a writer living in 1,200 square foot condo in the East Village. joyless. Michael had unbelievable relationships with his parents. I've never met in my life at 55 years old. Somebody who had great relationships with their parents who had an empty life.

Michael had an unbelievable, loving relationship with his college coach, Dean Smith, with his NBA coach, Phil Jackson. Michael Jordan, in the greatest basketball player in the world, said he would retire if Phil Jackson couldn't get a job. I love LeBron. Has LeBron ever stood up for a coach like that? Michael Jordan has a daughter who was quoted this week saying, oh, he coddles me, he babies me, calls me every day,

a son he's close to. He's got the strongest relationship with an agent, David Falk, 20 years later I've ever seen. The writer, David Roth, a brilliant writer, writers love writers. They retweet them all day, says, this is the deal that Jordan made, knowingly or unknowingly, that he would trade everything he had for everything he wanted. And then when he won all those things, he found that he had nothing but that.

He doesn't exactly seem happy or even really satisfied. What the hell are you talking about? Every woman was throwing themselves at him as a 28-year-old male. He was the best in the world at something. He's got the biggest brand in the history of the world. his relationships with his parents were unbelievable. Look at him hug Phil Jackson on the video. Players don't hug their coaches like that.

He hugged him like his dad. His life was full of incredible passions. He lives for his brand. He lived for his parents. He's got a beautiful wife. He lives for his kids. Stop psycho-analyzing him. Michael Jordan's the greatest basketball talent ever, A, and B, he was as competitive as hell.

And you know what? Success is hard and he trampled some people. So did Mark Zuckerberg at Facebook. He probably rolled over a few guys. That's life. So did Steve Jobs. You think his life is joyless? What?

I never once watched that episode, the 10 episodes, and thought his life was empty. I thought it was at times combative. Michael's not passive aggressive. Michael likes conflict. He gets right in your kitchen. He'll fight you any day of the week. That's not joyless.

That's passion. Michael's not one of these fakes that's nice to your face and bad. If Michael doesn't like you, he'll just won't talk to you. He'll just cut you off. That's not empty or joyless. Michael Jordan is great and Michael Jordan was competitive like nobody I've ever seen. That's it. And there's no reason to pretend anything else.

I mean, Horace Grant. was always kind of the forgettable guy on all of his teams. If I say bulls to you, where's Horace Grant come in? Seriously. I know the general manager more than Horace Grant. I know the owner's story. And it's nothing against Horace Grant. He was a nice player.

He did a lot of good things, especially in Orlando. I like him. But, you know, what a shock. Isaiah Thomas doesn't like this. Scotty Pippen doesn't like this. Relatives of Jerry Krause doesn't like this. And Horace Grant doesn't like it. Well, Isaiah Thomas wasn't liked by a lot of people.

Scotty Pippen could be immature. Jerry Krause was antagonizing. And frankly, Horace Grant, you probably did leak some of that stuff. You acknowledge you were best friends. You didn't leak a couple things. One, two, three, four. Michael cut you off. Sometimes you cut people off.

It's life. It's not perfect. Is that writer ever cut anybody off? A source, a friend? It's life. But let's not psychoanalyze this nonsense. sense. Here's the line the writers love, God writers love writers.

This is the deal that Jordan made knowingly or unknowingly that he would trade everything he had for everything he wanted. And then when he had all those things, he found that he had nothing but that. What? Mike, I had a great relationship with my mom.

I don't know if it's close to as good as Michael had with his mom. And I had a great relationship. You can't be joyless and empty. if you have great relationships with parents and mentors and coaches, yeah, he's not close with a lot of his teammates. I mean, I got to be honest with you. Is Dan Marino buddies with a lot of his buddies? Sometimes you just play a sport together and it's fun and then you leave

and you go back to your college buddies. You go back to people that you grew up with. Psycho-analizing is just... Extremely successful people have extremely small circles as well. Right. And Michael's circle isn't that small. Not considering the fact that he's Michael Jordan, no. I mean, seriously, for the record, his daughter admits. He's kind of private. Michael doesn't need 800 friends. I tell my daughter this all the time. I'm like, honey, if you can have two great friends in your life?

Right. Two great friends, sign off on it. No new friends. I like imitating writers. Oh, I am very sophisticated. Well, you're a writer. No, I'm not. What's your writer voice? I'm not a writer.

You know two books. I had a guy, Tim Kuhn, who's a brilliant writer that I came up with ideas, I wrote them, and then he sandpapered him to make sense. He added commas. He added commas. So he was a really nice writer because he refused to take credit for the book. He wouldn't put his name on the cover. I asked him both times. He's like, I don't want to do that.

And I'm like, well, then I'm going to write a chapter about you in both books. Aw. Yeah. That's the best writing I've ever done. I was shirtless on one of the covers. Those were my books. I deserve all the credit. Maybe that's why he didn't want to be honest.

Michael Jordan is joyless and empty. The hell you talking about. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the I-Heart radio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

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Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know.

I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes,

Hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rec, my mama wants you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

Here's a story. I'm not going to give it a bunch of time. It's kind of nonsense. LeBron says he considered playing the NFL during the 2011 lockout. Oh, stop. First of all, LeBron was all state in Ohio. Yeah, what a shock.

A 6-8-225-pound wide receiver dominated five-nine corners in Ohio in high school. Ohio's got 28 guys a year that are all-state. So does California, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Virginia, Florida, Texas, Georgia. Most of those states, most are better than Ohio football players at a high school. Secondly, Michael Jordan is physical.

He got in fights with everybody. Why? He grew up with brothers, beaten on him. Duane Wade's the most physical player I've ever seen at six, four and a half. Why? Why does he attack the rim? He grew up with brothers, wrestling, fighting. You'll find a lot of UFC fighters.

Grew up with brothers, tough guys, wrestling, fighting, brothers. LeBron isn't a physical guy. LeBron doesn't want to play center. He doesn't. LeBron doesn't want to go down low. he'll drive over smaller players LeBron wants to shoot threes. LeBron's never gotten into a fight in 15 years in the league.

He doesn't even move toward them. He moves away. For the physical stature of LeBron, he is big and strong. He's not a fighter. He's a lover, not a fighter. He's a giver, not a taker. He's not a physical player.

Now, he can take smaller guys to the basket and score on him. But rim protectors, like Roy Hibbert, have bothered him. He's not, he doesn't attack the rim when there's bigs there. He doesn't like it. He likes Kevin Love and Chris Bosch to go to the outside, take the big guy away so he can score uncontested at the rim or over a smaller guy. There's a dozen pieces of footage about Pippin and Jordan scoring over Patrick Ewing, dunking in his face. They're physical guys. They love to fight.

They like conflict they get in your face. That's why Pippin and Jordan got along. That's not LeBron's game. To play in the NFL, you've got to like contact. You got, in LeBron's too big to be a receiver. He would have been a tight end. You got to love to get hit and you got to like to hit. That's not who LeBron is.

He's never been that guy. He's a really unbelievably shockingly big, strong player who doesn't want to play center ever. He doesn't like to. He wants to shoot threes. His game's moved out, not in. And if you put a big guy in the middle, he doesn't have any interest contesting him at the rim. He'll pull up. Remember the old joke he wouldn't post up J.J. Berrea against Dallas in the finals.

It was like a running joke. That's not his game. That's not who he is. He is, has the ability to freight train smaller guys, but he's never like major conflict. He never has. I mean, Michael Jordan, in the documentary that favored him, was fighting guys constantly.

He would get in your face. He would punch. He would throw punches. He would go after you. Michael, if he wanted to play football, he just didn't like it, never played it. Dwayne Wade, to me, is a guy that if he would have loved football. His psychology is built for football.

tough guy, grew up with brothers, fighting. I mean, he never, Dwayne Wade never backed out from anybody. Anybody. It's not a size thing because Charles Barkley said he went out for practice one day and he hated football. I didn't want to get tackled. You know, I think you have to have a mentality to play football,

not just because you're big. There are a lot of big guys that aren't tough. You watch UFC, there's a lot of small guys that are just a bag full of hammers. But LeBron's not a football player. They're getting nonsense. What's up, everybody? John Middellcock, 3.

and out podcast. Go subscribe right now. If you like Collins' show, you'll like mine. I talk football, football, and more football. Coming up on this week's show, California says it's going to play games with fans, without fans. Who knows, minority coaching rules are changing. We dive into it and your questions on the Middlekopf mailback. Three and out podcast. Go subscribe. Dak Prescott used to be sympathetic. Now I'm over and let's bring in Nick Wright. First things first brought to you by Mercedes-Benz the best or nothing on the coward global satellite network. Okay, so DAC wants to be paid according to a story this morning, better than Russell Wilson.

Russell Wilson has 100 touchdown passes in three years. Nobody's close in the league. I have come to the point now. I think I've come to your side. I'll just go with Andy Dalton. I'm done with it. It's nonsense to me. I mean, I can imagine what you thought about the story.

Well, listen, I think the key point here, is Dak, in addition to wanting near, if not above the top of the market's pay, he wants a short contract so he can get another bite at the apple as quickly as possible. And the latest report is that he didn't want the fifth year. And if he wanted the fifth year, it's going to have to be something obscene, the Patrick Mahomes territory of we're talking $45 million. And at some point, Colin, I've used this analogy before and I'll use it again. It's apropos with you because you own so many properties around the world. At some point, the price of the house,

no matter how much you love the house, you say, I got to walk away. Like, I thought I was going to move here. I thought I was going to live here. I loved it. My wife loved it. Amazing open floor plan, but you've got to be kidding me.

And if you're not going to negotiate in good faith, then at some point you've got to walk away. And so we have been dealing with these Dak Prescott negotiations, Colin, for 16 months. I don't know why people think they're all of a sudden going to get resolved in the next 56 days because that's how long until the deadline hits to where he just plays this year under the franchise tag. And I think that's where this is headed, Colin. Yeah, I don't disagree with you.

So now we're getting to the point after the MJ, Doc, as people are psychoanalyzing it. I just, some guy in the New Yorker said, Michael's just empty and lonely and miserable and just an unmiserable human being. I don't see that. I think his relationships with his parents are amazing, his agent, his coaches, Dean Smith, Phil Jackson. And now it's Horace Grant calls him a snitch. You know, he snitched. Michael thinks he, I snitched on him for a book, blah, blah, blah.

I think we're trying to psychoanalyze Michael. I think he's great and I think he's absurdly competitive. And that ticks off people. That's how I see it. Your thoughts. Well, I thought Horace got a bad rap in this. Now, it's been rumored for the better part. of 30 years that Horace was one of Sam Smith's primary sources for that book, pardon me,

but he clearly wasn't the only one. There's a 300-page book. It didn't all come from Horace, and Horace gets thrown under the bus there. I did think Horace made a good point, which is episode one of the doc. Michael gets asked about LeBowell's alleged traveling cocaine circus, and he says, yeah, I walked into a hotel room. Every single one of my teammates is there with cocaine. Kane and women. I mean, there's a word for that. It is called snitching, even if it's 35 years later.

So I do think Horace made a fair point. And I understand why a guy like Horace that helped Michael win three titles or Scotty wouldn't have liked their portrayal in this. The only person who I thought was more unfairly portrayed than Horace Scotty and Jerry Krause was the poor pizza guy who you had on yesterday. Because if anyone believes the story that, when you When Michael Jordan ordered a pizza, he used his real name. And then otherwise normal guys said we're going to commit a felony and poison him. And then all show up in his hotel room to watch him take the first bite. It was the most implausible lie I've ever heard in my life.

So that's my top four of people who should be upset. The pizza guy, Horace Grant, Scotty Pippin, and the late Jerry Krause. By the way, I'm a recruiting dork. I've been watching recruiting video for 25 years. I love it. I've loved it forever. everybody's got something they love that they don't talk about on the air. Like, I love recruiting, and I go to websites all day.

One of the things I've always seen is a lot of kids in high school are great high school players because they're simply bigger and stronger, Jadavian Clowny. He's just bigger and stronger and he bulldozes people. And then he can do a little bit of that in college. But in the end, but the time you get to the NFL, do you like to hit and do you like to get hit in the ribs? Because football practice is hard. LeBron James, despite his physical stature, has never been in an NBA fight, doesn't appear to really like it.

He doesn't like playing center. Now, was he a great high school player? Yeah. Could he have been a really good college player? The idea, because he would have been a tight end, he would line up and have, you know, Khalil Mack over the top of him wanting to dislocate his head from his shoulders and he'd be like, oh, I just love physical play. Is silly.

LeBron's a great basketball player. He would have never been a great NFL player. And I know you're furious at this. Okay, well, listen, your take on Jordan walking away at the right time. I hope we have time to get to it because it is 100% correct. Your take on this is 100% incorrect. The person who should be most relieved that the NBA came back in 2011 is actually Jason Witten. Because Jason Witten would have been out about 600 catches, 6,000 yards, and 36,000.

touchdowns because LeBron would have gone to Dallas and taken his job. Colin, you should know this as well as anybody. On that wonderful Sunday NFL pregame show, who do you sit across from? What great-looking, all-time great Kansas City Chief do you sit across from every Sunday morning during football season? Tony Gonzalez. Tony Gonzalez, right? Yeah, Tony Gonzalez.

Is he a guy? Listen, you know him better than me. He fight a lot? He a guy who's got the face of a guy. He's been in a bunch of bar room brawls. Did he make his money in the NFL out muscling Khalil Mack? Or was he super tall, very fast, soft hand, great athlete, and had 125 touchdown catches? Because I think that's how he did it.

So the fact that you're like, well, LeBron once upon a time didn't post up J.J. Barreya, therefore he couldn't follow the Tony Gonzalez Jimmy Graham line to great NFL tight end. It's just lunacy. I don't think you really believe it. and I'm going to do something I never do. I just don't think you fully thought out the take. I think you heard it. You're like football, stupid.

I'll talk about my recruiting thing. You didn't fully think out the take. And now you realize, oh, he probably could have been Tony Gonzalez, you know, one of the three greatest tight ends ever. So yeah, I think you're wrong. Oh, by the way, Tony Gonzalez, to his credit, loved blocking. And I'm not joking, despite that pretty face, Tony is he loved physical play, loved blocking.

And that's my take on the brawn. he would just be like, I ain't doing the blocking thing. It hurts. All right, finally, you said I had some brilliant take. Can you talk about that for once? What was my brilliant take? I'd like to hear that. Yes, please. You are a thousand percent correct that Phil Jackson did Michael Jordan an enormous favor by walking away after championship six. Not only because they would have, I think they would have made the finals. Remember, 99, that's the year the eight seed Nix made the final. The Bulls, I think, would have made the finals, and they would have lost to Duncan and Robinson, because they never had to go up against a great center in the finals with Jordan.

And the next year, Shaq started making the finals. So they wouldn't have won another title. And everyone loves, for some reason, people think six for six is better than if you were six for seven or six for eight. But the other reason it was great is because I believe, and this might be a somewhat controversial opinion, I believe the single greatest game of Michael Jordan's career was game six. 98 finals against Utah. I understand the stat line, while it was very impressive, wasn't his great stat line ever. He had 45 points, one rebound, one assist on 35 shots. I think a lot of people say game four of the finals against Chuck and Phoenix when he had 55, 8, and 4 in the critical game of

the series. That was his greatest game ever. The 63 points against Boston. But with Pippin's back gone out, Rodman really done at that point. You're in a game where no one scores 90. It's a rock fight. You're facing the specter of a game seven on the road. And not only do you score over half of your team's points, but the way the final minute goes is two Jordan free throws, Jordan layup, Jordan Steele, Jordan shot, Jordan career in Chicago over. It was the greatest game he ever played as a bull, the greatest finish to any athlete's career ever,

if we're going to pretend the Wizards years didn't happen, which I'm fine with, by the way. And the story, even if you would have accomplished more, Colin, the story wouldn't have been as good. And what Michael has going for him in the LeBron Jordan discussion is Michael's story is better. I don't believe he's a better player, but his story is more poetic, if you will, and that changes if they come back and they lose in 99. So I totally agree with you on that.

And I think that game 6 and 98 is the greatest game he ever played. By the way, I agree. I had this conversation either with Goulet or Joy or somebody off the air the other day. that team was so challenged offensively in Chicago. They were ninth in scoring that year with Michael Jordan. And then when Pippin fell apart, it was basically Michael in the toughest NBA arena against two Hall of Famers and a Hall of Fame coach. Totally a grief.

Finally on a take. Nick Wright, first things first. Good talking to you, buddy. Good stuff. Absolutely, you guys as well. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial, calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to SportsClyce on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife-Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking.

Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys?

This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue with 42.

Hey, rep, my mama wants you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. The basketball gods have not been fair to Houston. So he's 13th season as the Rockets GM. Since becoming their GM in 2007, the Rockets have never had a losing season, ever.

Nine playoff appearances, second most wins in the league, third most average points per game. And you're saying, where are the titles? The basketball gods were cruel to the Utah Jazz. Back then, the basketball gods were good to Akeem, because, Michael retired and here was Houston. And Darrell is joining us via the Coward Global Satellite Network. Well, I know Darrell has been doing social distancing because I see that beard and I know you have mostly been at home.

So let me start with this. I heard you could not watch the last dance because it was too painful for you. Is that true? That's absolutely true. So I grew up in Cleveland. I would add the cavaliers on that list of Utah Jazz. We were in my head when I was a young kid, a young kid, we were the best team in the league,

and this guy Jordan kept knocking us off. I think they beat us five times in eight years or something from the playoffs. Scottie Pippen told me privately once. I asked him a question. I said, who's the best team never got credit? He goes, Cleveland was so physical and so long. He goes, we struggled. It was so meaningful.

to beat Cleveland because we really, it was a bad matchup. They were longer than us and almost nobody was. Now, in the documentary that you did not see, Jerry Krause comes off pretty poorly. I've argued this. GM's a tough job. You have a billionaire above you. You got to deal with agents all day. You got to deal with star players. Part of being a good agent is being conciliatory, is being social. Is it fair to say Jerry Krause was like that. lousy at that and therefore his reputation is well earned well he made he made a lot of good moves so i respect that he also came from baseball like i did that was my my where i came originally and i spoke to him twice before he passed rest in peace jerry but i would say and i've said what you just said

privately to people if you have your best player not liking you then you are not doing a good job by definition. That is if you have a job in the NBA, that is that is job one. The other jobs are are to get great players around them. But if you have your best player not with you, then that's, that's going to limit your ability to win. Now, Jordan was so amazing and Pippin was amazing. And the other players were so amazing that they won despite that. But there needs to be a good relationship between ownership, the GM, the coach, and the top. player or I've I've not seen teams win. By the way, you're wearing a t-shirt.

What's on the t-shirt right now? That's my, that's my Hardin meme right there. Okay, there you go. So I said this the other day because there was a story that James Harden was not on a conference call with players. And I said, I've loved the NBA since 1972. I was the kid that collected basketball cards, not baseball cards. And I said, James Hardin may go down is a better version of Georgia.

Gervin. Posters, nickname, legend, scoring titles, but he's a little bit to some guys as a solo act, got his own shot, got his own move, and that's credible, you get rich, you get popular, and everybody loves George Gervin. But could I make an argument with Hardin? It is possible that he is built. It's a different game. It's got a George Gervin quality, and that may not equate to tons of titles. Well, we're going to win titles, so then that'll kill your argument. That's my plan. I would say the two stories have made me realize how hard your job is right now, Colin. One was the who's on the group phone call story because we got nothing else to talk about.

The other one was, can you eliminate a teammate from your group text if they use Android? That was like a lead story. So I feel for you guys, without live sports, we're hurt. Yeah. He's struggling for stories. So you don't necessarily, listen, how often do you talk to James? What is your relationship? Yeah, we talk.

We talk all the time. If you're not, if you, again, if you don't have a good relationship, and he doesn't feel like he's part of what he's creating to win a title, he needs to be bought in and feel like he's a part of everything. And the good thing is he's incredibly smart and so is Russell and incredibly dedicated to the team. And, you know, we've had the incredible run that you just talked about at the opener that, you know, is just short of a title so far. A big part of it is just how smart and how much James wants to win and how much he feels bought into everything that's being done here.

Darryl Roy Rockets, GM. So I ask people this all the time when they're part of something unique. Money balls my favorite sports movie of all time. The Billy Bean story. I read the book, Michael Lewis. I love it. I've said, I'm into analytics, but I also believe you have to acknowledge analytics, that you're dealing with people.

Don't reduce them just in numbers. These are young men who are, they got some ego and they got some pride. Don't reduce them in numbers. But I want you to take me back because you've been on the forefront of this analytic drive. What was the car ride the day, the moment, the practice, the moment, Daryl, that you said to yourself, wait a minute, wait a minute. The three-point shot is not used enough. There had to have been a moment, a plane ride, a book, a graph. Do you remember what it was and where it was? Yeah, absolutely. So I sort of out of the blue got a job interview with the Rockets in 2006.

I didn't know this, but the Rockets had been looking for a replacement for Carol Dawson. It was a fantastic GM, but was looking to step away. And before I went into that interview, I said, you know, I have to find something to make me stand out from the group that they're looking at. And obviously, it wasn't like shocking to know that three point shots are worth more than two, and you could look at the percentages. That wasn't the thing. The biggest thing was like looking at it in a systematic way and seeing things like, if you go two for six for three, it's the same as going three for six from two. And there's an extra rebound in there that you can get as well.

So there was such an inherited advantage to build, to build your structure around being efficient. And at the end of the day, that's your job. Your job is to score more points than the other team. And you need to do that every time down to the floor. So shooting more threes and preventing them. And Jeff Van Gundy, to his credit, in my first year, we led the league and three-pointers in the very first year that he and I

worked together when I came to Houston. Jeff's sort of like an underrated sort of understanding of all these things and nobody talks about that team. And then over time, you know, we've sort of moved towards it and then Mike Dan Tony with his offensive mind

and his genius, he's taking it to yet another level and really just one of the all-time great teams is keeping us from winning in a hamstring probably kept us from a title. Yeah, Daryl Morey's joining us. You know, in the documentary, You've heard a lot of stories about, you know, guys couldn't play with MJ today.

Current players couldn't play. And I think it's a lot of nonsense because I think players like to win. That's why so many NBA stars take less money. They want to win games. And Michael would have won games. LeBron's not always easy to play with. He's attracted some players. So Akeem did play with Barclay and Pippin.

And I remember going back, there was a lot of, it wasn't easy. Now, that was a situation where Barkley, Akeem, And Pippin may have just had different personalities. But you know Akeem well. Has he ever told stories about that group of guys that are memorable? He has. And I think Akeem would even say that he's gone through a transformation where he was maybe a tough teammate more early.

He was still, I know, tough on certain guys like Matt Bullard. He's told me a lot of stories as well. But, yeah, no, the Barclay Pippin teams in particular, there are there are quite a bit of stories i remember one and i won't say who like one of the players would say all you guys you need to stop going out late at night and show up on time and it and whoever makes that speech is usually the one who's out the latest and doesn't show up on time that was that was what he team told me yeah i always find that was talk show hosts who are moralists they've always got skeletons all over their closet that's why joy and i are not moralist joy we go

out late at night. Absolutely not. I barely sleep. Yeah. All right. It's not very unsafe to be a moralist because pretty much no one is. Thank you very much. Finally, let me ask this. Are you optimistic today about the potential for an NBA season? Very optimistic. I mean, I think everyone wants to play players, owners. And obviously, we have to do it in a smart way. But the momentum is there. And I think the only thing may be holding us back now is that as things get smartly rolled out and opened up and the Bundes League is playing, if there's some material setback, that that could affect things. But otherwise, it's just a matter of when and how for us to play.

Darrell Mori, it's great seeing you. Reping the Rockets, the James Hardin shirt. I love that. And the Rockets hat. And we'll get him a razor soon. He'll shave soon. It just a matter of time. Yeah, I definitely need a razor.

And if I don't have to dress up, this is great. So, good. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. And every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild. I mean, it was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing.

How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed human.