The Herd with Colin Cowherd - BEST OF THE HERD – Packers Lack Toughness, Steelers Living In The Past, Cowboys Are For Real

Episode Date: August 7, 2026

The Green Bay Packers hope to bounce back in 2026 after a disappointing finish to last season. Colin Cowherd looks at head coach Matt LaFleur and wonders if the team lacks toughness to get into true Super Bowl contention. Colin discusses the state of the Steelers under new head coach Mike McCarthy. He wonders if McCarthy is the right coach for Pittsburgh, who’s looking to win their first playoff game in 9 years. Plus, NFL reporter Robert Mays joins the show to tell Colin why he’s “uncomfortable” with how much he likes the Cowboys this season.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on Internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Hey, Portlandia fans.

Carrie Brownstein and Fred Armisen here. The Dream of the 90s is alive in podcast form. We're launching Podlandia, AEO rewatch, our brand new podcast where we revisit every episode of Portlandia together, breaking down sketches, going deep on our iconic characters, and pulling back the curtain on how it all got made. And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life. Guest stars, collaborators, and friends,

including director Jonathan Chrysell, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more. Kyle is going for it here. You fully improvised, not just words, but a song. Well, I thought you were all going to write a song. I remember you thinking that. Listen to Podlandia.

A.A.O. Rewatch on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? I'm sports journalist Ari Chambers. Hey, what's up, y'all? It's your girl, Sam J. And we're the host of everyone watches women's sports. It's a new podcast from Together in I Heart Women's Sports. We're breaking down the biggest headlines. Naomi Osaka, showing out.

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On the Iheart radio app. Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, this is Hayes Davenport. And Sean Clements. We host the podcast Hollywood Handbook. Every episode we're trying to help our guests improve their careers by mainly focusing on how they can help us improve our careers. The show's famously super accessible so you can easily jump into any of our 650 episodes and understand what's going on. We recommend some of our recent episodes with Ben Stiller, Danny McBride, Riz Ahmed, and Mary Steenberg.

Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Best of the Heard Podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon. 3 Eastern 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day in the IHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. This is the best of the herd with Colin Cowher on Fox Sports Radio.

Oh, it is a Friday. Put that Hall of Fame game in the Hall of Fame. That's the best one I've ever seen. We are live. It's the herd, wherever you may be, however you may be listening. watching whatever the platform. A lot of choices out there. Appreciate it.

Thanks for making us part of your Friday. Bears Camp, I'm headed there Sunday. John Middilkoff joining me to wrap up this week. He's back next week as well. He's been great. So, you know, there's certain things that I've, this has kind of been a theme on this week's show. The sky is falling, doom and gloom,

too often portrayed by the sports media. And I think the NIL, the baseball pitch clock, there's no downside. And I'm watching Carson Beck last night. And that kid stayed in college one more year, goes to Miami. And between George and Miami, he played 12 top 10 teams. He played with 45 NFL guys. And you watched last night, Carson Beck, he was ready to play. Maturity, poise, patience.

That is a kid who spent six years in college. He would have come out last year, been drafted late, fifth, sixth round, sat in a bench. Nope, he played 15 games at Miami with NFL teammates, just like he did at Georgia. Carson Beck's, I'm watching Carson Beck last night. I'm not saying he or Haynes King are going to tear up the league, but Carson Beck's looks like a starter to me. I don't know how good of a starter. He kind of looks like a starter.

And again, Haynes King, another guy probably. would have come out a year ago, late, you know, seventh round pick, Haynes King and Carson Beck. 43 college starts. Both stayed in college six years. And this is what I've said. And by the way, there's no rush to get to the NFL. Matt Stafford was MVP, was 38 years old. Everybody's playing longer now. You can't hit, right? Nobody's, nobody's hitting quarterbacks anymore. You can, you can last longer. You can't get driven into the dirt or the AstroTurf. And there's two other quarterbacks this year in college football. Trinidad Chambliss at Ole Miss.

He's great. Dante Moore at Oregon, really great. Those guys would have come out in this draft. Five years ago, they're in the NFL. Both stayed another year, one at Old Miss, one at Oregon. And those guys are going to play another 14, 15 games because both Oregon and Ole Miss have a chance, you know, to win a lot of games and get to the playoff.

And so to me, I'm watching that Hall of Fame game. usually it's a bunch of rookie quarterbacks, and by the second series, you're like, oh, this is unwatchable. I watched the whole game. I thought it was fantastic. So the NIL is benefiting everybody. First of all, college football now with the NIL.

Players stay in college a year or two longer. The rosters are older. The schemes are more sophisticated. The quality of play is better. I said that Hurricane Hoosier game last year. That's the closest thing I've ever seen in college to the NFL. And the NFL players now, they come in, rookies come in way more developed, intellectually, emotionally, way more prepared.

They're older kids. They've made a little scratch. They're not overwhelmed by the league. Now, NFL executives privately are complaining that, you know, that extra year or two in college, the kids are all beat up. Oh, give me a break. They're playing longer on the back end. And the other thing is if you look at draft picks, right?

Like 80% of players don't sign a. second contract with a team that drafts them, even first round guys. So again, between rehab being better, body maintenance being better, nutrition being better, everybody's playing longer on the back end of their career. Who cares if you get them a year later? But I'm, I got to tell you something, the pitch clock in baseball and the NIL and college football, I think the college game is better and you're watching that game. Be honest.

That's the best Hall of Fame game any of us have ever seen. And the reason it was good was the question. quarterback play. It wasn't great inside linebacker play because nothing ruins as great as football is and we all love it. As great as football is, nothing ruins that one o'clock red zone window like bad rookie quarterback play. Or a guy's in his second or third year and you're like, man, it's just, it's not there. I don't know if Carson Beck and Haynes King, Haynes King probably a backup in the NFL, but Carson Beck, I don't know. look pretty good to me. Here is

Carson Beck's coach Matt Lafleur and Hand King on last night. It's going to be a broken record. The same thing that I keep seeing at practice where he just gets in and out of the huddle and he doesn't make it too big. He just lives by the play. It doesn't count the win loss. But it was a cool

environment for him to just kind of you know, it's just another game. And that's the way he took it and he's been in big ones. I was proud of the way he played and it's a good first step in stone for him. I mean, it's a dream come true. You know, growing up you hear about you know all these first ballot hall of famers and you know to see some of them even walking in front of you uh before the game like that is is uh is is pretty amazing and then just

to be out there and and go out there and try to showcase your talent in front of them is you know as a dream come true you know i was looking this morning at carson back six year college player right and instead of coming to the nfl he goes to miami and makes a bunch of money and i was looking at games he played in college. I mean, if you wonder why Carson Beck, it was so prepared for the NFL, and I'm not going to read all these games. Look at the teams he played in college. And a lot of those come on that last year in Miami. So when you watched Haynes King last night and you watch Carson Beck, what do young quarterbacks, rookie quarterback struggle with in the NFL? The speed of the NFL. Look at Carson Beck. Look how many pro athletes he played with it, practice at Georgia in

Miami and played against. The one thing that was so obvious with Carson Beck, he was already at NFL speed, quick reads, quick release, get rid of it. That's the one thing rookie quarterback struggle with for years and years. The game's really fast. They'll tell you that. Quarterbacks are like, man, it takes you a year to cash out with the speed. Carson Beck, all these Georgia, Miami NFL first round teammates, he was totally comfortable in the pocket. That's the power of the NIL.

Okay, speaking of Lafleur, Matt Lafleur has been in the league a while. And Matt LaFleur, the Packers, is probably on the coolest hot seat any coach has ever been on. It's not your usual hot seat like Matt Eber, Fluse last year in Chicago, but two things are working against the Green Bay coach. Number one, his division has Ben Johnson and Kevin O'Connell, brilliant offensive coaches, top of the league. and then the ultimate alpha dog coach, Dan Campbell. And so over the last two years, the NFC North has won seven more games than the next division. It is probably or arguably the best coach division in football. You have got to be on your A game every single Sunday.

So that's kind of working against him. Here's the other thing. Matt LaFleur has now developed a reputation and the Packers' front office knows it. And they're watching the last couple of playoff losses. where they get that big lead, very smart, sophisticated game plan, and then they're not tough enough to finish the game off. Ty Dunn used to cover Lafleur and the Packers, and he talked about the reality of what this football operation has become under LaFleur.

Again and again and again, you just see a lack of will, a lack of toughness. Go back to that Denver game, right? Jordan Love gets whacked in the head and he's down. What did the teammates do? They're doing what they're told by Matt LaFleur. They're not jumping in. They're not going to get a penalty. But guess what?

That is embedded into the fabric of who you are as a team. I mean, they knew if you punch the Packers in the mouth under Matt LaFloor, they're not going to punch back. I think more than personnel, Colin, more than any transactions, they need a killer instinct. And Ben Johnson, Bears, hyper aggressive. Dan Campbell, bite your kneecaps, hyper aggressive. Arguably the two most aggressive coaches in the sport. or in the same division with the stoic, less emotional, less aggressive, Matt LaFleur. And so it amplifies what is a problem.

It's not my opinion. Packer, I've been defending Matt LaFleur for years. Packer fans are all over it. And he's making the playoffs, sneaking into the playoffs. So if you look at the 49ers and the Lions in the NFC, arguably the two most physical NFC teams, LeFleur is four and eight against those teams. And so there is a sense with Lefleur's teams. 88% of the time they've taken a lead in a game.

That's a remarkable percentage. Why? Because he's smart. They don't commit penalties. They're highly efficient. One of the smartest teams in the league. But in the NFL as a coach, you have to pull multiple levels. Smart gets you a lead.

Toughness finishes it off. And the sense is Micah Parsons brought in to add that element of toughness. And he's not available until October. The draft, according to Ty Dunn, they made specific qualifications this year for their draft picks, nasty, tough physical players. The sense is the team is missing that. So I think it's, remember when Ben Johnson, I mean, Ben Johnson is aggressive, even at the podium. Remember this shot he took at LaFleur?

I know this is the toughest division of football right now. I've got tremendous amount of respect for the coaches. and the players in this league. Dan Campbell, Kevin O'Connell. You're talking about two guys that are up for Coach of the Year awards as the season ends here. And to be quite frank with you, I kind of enjoyed beating Matt LaFleafour twice a year.

And LaFleur never really responded. So it kind of felt soft as breed cheese in a town that loves, you know, age cheddar. So it's a real thing. It's kind of being amplified. is they feel a little soft. Chicago and Detroit are hyper-aggressive. They're in the same division.

And, you know, I said this last year, John, I said, to me, Matt LaFleur's comp is Lincoln, Riley, at USC. I just watched the USC Nebraska game. It was edited down to an hour. I watched it yesterday. USC Illinois game. It was edited down to an hour. So I was in the Big Ten building.

I'm watching it yesterday as I'm sitting ready for the show. And USC is so clever and so much. multiple and so much motion, it does not look like a college offense. It was just up and down the field, but they couldn't close the game out. And that has been the knock on Lincoln, Riley, and Matt LaFleur. They take the lead. They're highly creative. They don't commit a lot of penalties, but they struggle to finish teams off.

They're smart, offensive guys, but are they culture and toughness builders? And I think that's been a fair criticism of LaFleur and Lincoln. and Riley, and I've defended both. But it's also a criticism. I mean, remember, the playoff game against the Bears, year before, playoff game against the 49ers. In both games, Green Bay's in control can't finish

off a game that they control. I think in football, you can't fake toughness. And some guys are Dan Campbell, the Harbaugh's, Tomlin, are just tough guys. And you meet Kyle Shanahan, you wouldn't say he's tough, but he instills that

in the way he practices. And I think LaFleur has kind of proven to be a good underdog. They got to play with Malik Willis. He can kind of outthink you. Yes. They go into games last year, that Bears playoff game. No one thought they could win. They have a commanding lead at halftime. But then the toughness, like you said, in the second half of these games, when you just put your foot on someone's throat.

They don't. Not really his personality. And, I mean, perfectly manicured hair, eyebrows. You know, it's like, I like my, I don't mind a little overweight head coach. You know, a guy that missed a few gyms sessions, you know. Yeah. he's tough because he's clearly pretty solid, but I think the question mark is for this tiny little market in America, the Packers are one of our most important franchises in any sport. And they are, I would say there's a magnifying glass on that team that's watched very, very closely, especially in the division, right?

It's not easy, as Ben Johnson said. And the other thing that's the truth about football, when the PAC 12 teams join the Big Ten, what did everybody question? How are the warm weather schools going to deal with the Big Ten brand of football? Big Ten football, because of the weather, November on, you got to run the golf ball. You got to be physical. You got to be tough. It's not pretty football. You win ugly all the time.

So it's almost like Matt Lefleur, Lincoln Riley. They're playing kind of a sunny weather football, which is be smart, be multiple, be thoughtful, take leads. And by the way, that's going to win you a lot of games in this league. But again, smart get your lead in the pro football and college football. Toughness, get you the win. at the end of that game, eight, 12 play drives, no passes, head down,

you're bloodyed, you pick up a third and one, three separate times. And I think that's the question about Matt Lafleur and Green Bay. And I don't think it's a cheap shot. I think we have now, we've got some data

that it's probably true. We got a lot of stuff today. Chris Sims, Robert Maids from The Athletic is, boy, that podcast is as smart as they get. He'll be joining us. He's been bouncing around camps. Be sure to catch live editions

of the herd. weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington from The Odd Couple on Fox Sports Radio. And in addition to hearing us live weeknights from 7 to 10 p.m. Eastern on Fox Sports Radio, we are excited to announce brand new YouTube channel for the show. That's right. You can now watch the Odd Couple live on YouTube every day. All you got to do, search Odd Couple FSR. on YouTube again.

YouTube, just search Odd Couple FSR. Check us out on YouTube and subscribe. Eating well shouldn't be complicated, but somehow it turns into recipes, prep, cleanup, and half your Sunday gone. Factor solves all that. These are fresh, ready-to-eat meals designed by dietitians, delivered to your door, and ready in just minutes. No prep, no cleanup, no excuses.

And it's not just about convenience. You're getting real food, balanced nutrition, and zero artificial stuff. Meals that help you stay on track for all of your goals without the grind of doing it all yourself. Grilled chicken, roasted veggies, steak plates, postables. They taste like something you'd get in a restaurant, but they come out of your microwave in two minutes flat. If time, cost, or effort have been holding you back from eating better, Factor just took those off the table. Right now, get 11 free meals and free shipping. Hurry, this offer won't last long. Go to factormeals.ca and use code power. That's 11 free meals and free shipping, but only with the code power at factormeals.ca.

Factor, Canada's number one ready-to-eat meal delivery service. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pesto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus. From $94 a month, price guaranteed for two years on Internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit.

Visit bell.com for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. What's up, fam? I'm sports journalist Ari Chambers. Hey, what's up, y'all? It's your girl, Sam J. And we're the host of everyone watches women's sports, a new podcast from Together and I heart women's sports. Because let's be real.

Women's sports is giving us way too much to talk about these days. So Kelsey Finler, she became the first female solo roer to go. from California to Hawaii. My first thought is, like, what's up with the snacks? Like, what are we eating? The highlights, the rivalries, the breakout stars, the moments that take over your entire timeline. And the conversations that start during the game

and somehow keep going all week. Every week, we're breaking down the biggest stories across women's sports. Naomi Osaka showing out, she beat Sabalinka. Shout out to you, Naomi. You get the palm, Naomi. You get the palm for that. Because we're not just interested in what happened.

We're interested in why everyone's talking about it. Because everyone watches women's sports. Listen to everyone watches women's sports. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, Portlandia fans. Carrie Brownstein and Fred Armisen here. You know us, or rather, you know them. Tony and Candice, Nina and Lance, Spike, and yes, the chicken.

We've played a lot of iconic characters over the years, but today we're showing up as ourselves to tell you about Podlandia, AEO, rewatch, our brand new podcast. Each week, we'll revisit an episode of Portlandia from the very beginning. breaking down the sketches, exploring the backstories of our most iconic characters, revisiting the Portland locations you know and love, and opening up about our creative process. How did any of this get made? Why do we think that was a good idea?

We're ready to talk about it. And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life. Guest stars, collaborators, and friends, including director Jonathan Chrysler, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more. Kyle is going for it here. You fully improvised, not just words, but a song, a melody. I thought he was going to write. I thought you're all going to write a song.

I remember you thinking that. Listen to Podlandia. Ayo, rewatch on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, you're now entering no Bullzone sponsor by credible great rates under the Bull. So Mike Tomlin was predictably very, very good on his debut for NBC. We've said for years. Everybody knows that Mike is so good at the podium. Just, you know, real clarity, real succinct, gets to the point.

And he was asked about Mike McCarthy now the Steeler coach as he left Pittsburgh and moved to the booth. You know, I know a little bit about the Steelers situation, to say the least. Mike's perfect for them and they're perfect for Mike. Certainly being a Pittsburgh native, he understands the standard that is Pittsburgh. And he'll embrace that. experience will also allow him to manage that. He's got an awesome resume. Obviously, the confetties rained down on him before with his current quarterback, Aaron Rogers. And there's no substitute for shared success. I don't see him as a perfect hire, but I do think Mike McCarthy, as we've

noted on this show several times, is better than his reputation. He's certainly in the class of Mike Tomlin or John Harbaugh, who were held in much higher regard than McCarthy and they have the same resumes. But the Steelers organization, football's gotten smarter. Fans are smarter. The coaches are smarter. You don't drive quarterbacks into the turf. And I think the Steelers are very uncomfortable with a lot of the changes.

I mean, one of the changes that's obvious is 30 is the new 40 for head coaches. McVeigh got a job at 30. Shanahan 37. Liam Cohen in his 30s. Three more coaches this year got a job in their 30s. D'Amico Ryan's, Mike McDonald, best two defensive coaches, arguably, maybe not arguably. in the NFL got their jobs in the 30s. Meanwhile, the Steelers hired a 62-year-old head coach, who many believe is a little bit of a retread. Perhaps he is, again, better than the average

retread. But this is the current model in the NFL. Get young, get current, lean offense. That's the model. Secondly, quarterback is now because of rule changes, and you all know this listening on radio or on watching on TV. The sport's about 70% quarterback. You used to be able to win a lot of games. It's kind of a running team or defense wins championships. Nobody can stop anybody. I mean, it's just like best offense wins. I mean, the Seahawks were rare. I mean, really rare team where you're like, oh, they're led by their defense. Yet the MVP of the Super Bowl is running back and Sam Darnold didn't have a turnover and that was really the key of their postseason success. Nobody could stop JSN, Kenneth Walker, and Donald had no turnovers. And that's as a

defensive organization first. So the Steelers in the last five years, have treated quarterback like an interior linebacker. We'll get to it. I mean, can you imagine Sean McVeigh waiting in an off-season for Aaron Rogers to decide if he wants to play football? That's just no way Liam Cohen is sitting around waiting for that. It's just not the way it works. So, and my take is they also hired a GM that nobody else in the league saw as a GM.

They hire a 62-year-old coach. I think the 2026 Pittsburgh Steelers organization, is closer to a better version of the Cincinnati Bengals than they are the L.A. Rams. And I really believe that. I think Philadelphia, some of these organizations are clever and current. The Rams, Philadelphia, Houston's gotten there.

I think these guys are the Bengals. The ownership is poor. They hire in-house. They don't go top of the market. And, you know, I mean, like Cincinnati will never truly invest in the offensive line. and the Steelers are like Ho-Homut quarterback. So they're not playing modern football in the front office or on the field.

To me, they spend way too much money on defense. So I don't think Mike McCarthy is a perfect fit, like Mike Tomlin said. I don't think he's an awful fit. But it's sometimes, you see this all the time. You've got family members like this. You got in-laws like this. There's companies like this. They're just not comfortable with some of the cultural changes in America or at work.

and that's what the Steelers feel like to me, a better, glossier version of the Bengals than like the L.A. Rams who were top of the league. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Eating well shouldn't be complicated, but somehow it turns into recipes, prep, cleanup, and half your Sunday gone.

Factor solves all that. These are fresh, ready-to-eat meals designed by dieticians, delivered to your door, and ready in just minutes. No prep, no cleanup, no excuses. And it's not just about convenience. You're getting real food, balanced nutrition, and zero artificial stuff. Meals that help you stay on track for all of your goals, without the grind of doing it all yourself.

Grilled chicken, roasted veggies, steak plates, postables. They taste like something you get in a restaurant, but they come out of your microwave in two minutes flat. If time costs or effort have been holding you back from eating better, Factor just took those off the table. Right now, get 11 free meals and free shipping. Hurry, this offer won't last long. Go to factormeals.ca and use code power. That's 11 free meals and free shipping, but only with the code power at factormeals. Factor, Canada's number one ready-to-eat meal delivery service.

Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pasto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell pure fiber internet with craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.com.com for details and to check availability.

Bell, connection is everything. What's up, fam? I'm sports journalist Ari Chambers. Hey, what's up y'all? It's your girl, Sam J. And we're the host of everyone watches women's sports, a new podcast from Together and I heart women's sports. Because let's be real. Women's sports is giving us way too much to talk about these days. So Kelsey Finler, she became a new. came the first female solo rower to go from California to Hawaii. My first thought is, like, what's up with the snacks?

Like, what are we eating? The highlights, the rivalries, the breakout stars, the moments to take over your entire timeline. And the conversations that start during the game and somehow keep going all week. Every week, we're breaking down the biggest stories across women's sports. Naomi Osaka showing out, she beat Sabalinka. Shout out to you, Naomi. You get the palm, Naomi. You get the palm for that.

Because we're not just interested. and what happened. We're interested in why everyone's talking about it. Because everyone watches women's sports. Listen to everyone watches women's sports on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, Portlandia fans. Carrie Brownstein and Fred Armisen

here. You know us, or rather you know them. Tony and Candace, Nina and Lance, Spike, and yes, The Chicken. We've played a lot of iconic characters over the years, but today we're showing up as ourselves to tell you about Podlandia AEO rewatch, our brand new podcast. Each week,

We'll revisit an episode of Portlandia from the very beginning, breaking down the sketches, exploring the backstories of our most iconic characters, revisiting the Portland locations you know and love, and opening up about our creative process. How did any of this get made? Why do we think that was a good idea? We're ready to talk about it. And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life.

Guest stars, collaborators, and friends, including director Jonathan Chrysle, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more. Kyle is going for it here. You fully improvised, not just words, but a song, a melody. I thought he was going to write. I thought you were all going to write a song. I remember you thinking that.

Listen to Podlandia. Ayo, rewatch on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, he hosts a podcast, the athletic football show podcast. My staff loves it. Formerly at Grantland, the ringer, Robert Mays. And he has bounced around to the Ravens Camp, Rams, Chargers, Texans. Jags, Cowboys, and he is now joining us live at Eagles Camp. He's there now.

For the record, what is a Nick Seriani camp like? I think this one feels a little different because of all the changes on offense. I think there's just kind of a different sort of energy around this camp. There's a different level of intrigue because the offensive system has shifted so much. I talked to Jordan Milato when I was here, and it's just coming out of his ears how much he's enjoying the changes. And I think that they're having a lot of fun figuring out what this thing looks like. Whenever you do this, whenever you go to a drastically different offensive system,

sometimes there's consternation, sometimes there's growing pains. I think that there's like real excitement here. And when you combine how good and talented the defense is, the vibes are shockingly good for a team that kind of bottomed out the way that the Eagles did last year. So you were at Oxnard, which and the Cowboys are one of the only teams now that leaves for their camp, big crowds. You know, it's funny, they've been kind of a pinata

on this show for years. We've kind of pushed back on the relevance. We kind of feel like the Chiefs of the Bills or America's team. But I look at that roster and I'm like, it's pretty good. A year after the Micah trade, you're like, they may won that trade. What was the vibe

like? That's a team. I feel the exact same way, where I've been pretty harsh on them in recent years, where their actions and their words were always very different. Jerry would talk about how all in they were, and I would look at the roster, and I'd be like, what did you do?

What do you mean you're all in? And then now, this entire off season, I'm almost uncomfortable with how excited I am about the Cowboys. It's a place that I don't really like being. I think it starts with the offense, right? And I think they're very excited about year two of this offensive system, having those receivers. There are so few questions there.

There's been so much interest in who's going to win. the left tackle battle and I think that's in part because everything else feels so settled and so high end on that side of the ball. The question is going to be what happens with the defense. That's it. How good can the defense be? Because I expect the offense to be elite, if not hyper elite top of the league. And I'm in Eagles camp, which seems fitting right now because the guy that they've hired to oversee that, Christian Parker was the past game coordinator here for two years, three years before getting the Cowboys DC job. And I said for a long time, he in my mind was the most interesting defensive coordinator candidate in the NFL for multiple

seasons. And the fact that now he's getting this opportunity in as bright a spotlight as you possibly can, I really do think they have a lot of faith that he is the guy to turn that thing around. If they can get to average under him on defense combined with what the offense is, that suddenly becomes a team that becomes pretty interesting, pretty fast in the NFC. So I think you'd almost have to go back to the Seahawks after they won the Super Bowl that we went into a season thinking, oh, this team's an overwhelming favorite. Because the Chiefs won a couple. They got to a couple of Super Bowls post-Tirek Hill, but the receiving core wasn't great. You know, I mean, there were some questions about, you know, their weapons on the outside.

Even during the Patriots run, the Randy Moss teams were regular season dominant, and they didn't win Super Bowls. I'm trying to think of a team, you were at the Rams camp. I mean, if Aaron comes back and it looks like he will, that defensive front, Braden Fiske, will now be a rotational player. Or Aaron Donald Webb. And it's like Puka, you know, if that feels like he's kind of been in a little personal rehab there, so that's right. Left tackle, not as unsettled as I thought two months ago.

I think there was criminal charges. I don't remember a team that we looked at and went, yeah, it'd be what, if I said they didn't win, what did Stafford get hurt? So here's an overwhelming favorite. What was that? What was the vibe in the Rams camp? I think they know that. And I think that part of the messaging that's had to happen there is pushing back against

that idea. And if you look at the percentages, right? If you put the odds on it in Vegas, what percentage chance the Rams have to win the Super Bowl based on everything? It's still like 12.5.13%. That's a big number compared to other teams. It's not a big number overall. And I think that's been part of the messaging from Sean McBey and that staff is that everyone can say out there that it's Super Bowl or Bust that we should be winning it all of that. There still is a very relatively small chance that we end up doing it because of how hard it is. And I think when you're in his position, Sean's very good at this, where there's an emotional intelligence to the way that he approaches the job. And I think banging home this idea of we have to stay hungry, we have to stay on edge, we have to stay urgent.

I think that has been a big part of the communication there in a way it might not be in other buildings that have these sorts of expectations. So Seattle's interesting. John Snyder, Howie Roseman is viewed as sort of the most aggressive GM. There's an argument over the last decade in terms of, of drafting college players, John Snyder, is as good as anybody. And, I mean, it's since Pete left and he has even more power, like, they just don't miss on top picks. So we see them lose Kenneth Walker. We see him lose a corner.

We see him lose an edge rusher. And then they draft those three positions in the draft. And my take is, they'll be good, even though it's late round. So Seattle's in a weird spot where we love the coach. The quarterback's really developed. their losses were replaced in the draft. They still have under 25-year-old talent that's elite, and yet they've taken a back seat to the Rams.

And I'm like, you were there up in Kirkland, which may be the prettiest camp in the country. I don't know. Are we undervaluing Seattle? I think we might be a little bit, but you can understand how it happens. First of all, it is the prettiest training camp. Their facility in Renton is like right on the lake.

it's just, it's picturesque. I look forward to it every time I get to go up there where it's like I get one day of just beautiful Pacific Northwest. But I think it makes sense in the sense that the Rams got better, okay? The Rams were right there with Seattle last year as the best team in the league. It was neck and neck. It could go either way based on how that NFC championship game was. And if you look at the Rams roster at the end of last year, the Rams roster now,

it got better. Seattle's got worse. I don't think it's cruel or unfair to say that. I think they got worse. whether they can still maintain being that level of team, I do have faith that they can be just because I think Mike McDonald is the defensive version of these offensive coaches that we've seen dictate and dominate and define the league over the last 10 years.

Where even if it's, you know, are we good enough at our second corner spot? What does this third safety look like? We do the same thing with these offensive coaches with McVeigh and Shanahan on offense. If you look at the offensive tackles that the Rams are putting up bleed best numbers with. Those are not elite players, but they can get by because of who the coach is. I feel that way about Mike McDonald. Even if we got to rely on a second round safety in Bud Clark being a starter,

I think Mike McDonald can get you there. Even if you're going from Boyam Maffa to Dante Fowler as your fourth edge player, I think Mike McDonald can get you there. The defense, I don't have any questions about. I think it's going to be what does the transition on offense look like under a new play caller? And I think there's a world where when you have that young talent that they've drafted the second year guys, the Elijah Royos, Tori Hortons, that can ascend a little bit, plus the connoe they have on offense.

There is a world absolutely where this is still arguably the best team in the NFL, even with some of the changes and even with some of the turnover that we're talking about. So I was talking about this earlier. I said Matt LaFleur is on the coolest hot seat ever, where there's not pickets and pitchforks outside of Lambo, but the Bears now it's Ben Johnson year two. I mean, I think between the tackle they drafted, Penae Sewell goes left, the tackle they drafted, new O.C. I think Holmes is brilliant upstairs. I love to.

I think Detroit's going to win the division. I think Kyler Murray may not be Darnold, Minnesota, but he's going to, I mean, last year, it was a musical chairs for them at quarterback. I'm going to go with Kyler winning 10 games. And I look at Green Bay, and I'm like, okay, no Micah, probably for a month. Jordan Love like him, but he has started slow every year. I don't know why, but he is. I look at their schedule early. Where are you with Green Bay?

It feels more fragile there than it has felt in a while. And when I say that, I mean, this is a team that is more draft and developed than almost any franchise in the league. It has been for a long time. Long time. There are so many years where the position group that comes to mind for me is the offensive line, where there's so many years where they've got a first, second, third round pick kind of waiting in the wings as a depth player. That's what Jordan Morgan was for them over the last couple of years. Anthony Belton was a second round pick for them last year that wasn't a starter right away.

Now, all of those guys that used to be depth pieces for the Packers, you need them to play well. Jordan Morgan, Matthew Golden, Anthony Belton, on defense, they don't have a lot of depth at places like edge rusher. So where this team used to be able to have these waves of draft picks, where they could bring them along slowly, where it felt like we have some optionality. Now, it feels like their path is narrower and more narrower and more fragile than it has been in a lot of years. And I think that puts a really big onus on Matt LaFleur in a way that they haven't even in the last few seasons. So I looked at over unders, and I pick five new teams that make the playoffs. One of them's Baltimore, Detroit, Kansas City. I think I had the Giants.

I forget who the other one was. Saints. I like the Saints, actually. I think Tyler's arc was way better than I thought. But Baltimore had the highest over-under in the league. And I'm like, new coach, first-time play caller. I think Tyler Linderbomb was a rock for the offensive line. How many years can you rely on Derek Henry to get into the end zone 15 times?

And Lamar last year looked like he lost like three miles an hour, which is a weird, you know, number to talk about with the quarterback, but like it's part of who he is. You were at their camp. Do you feel, for as well run and well owned as they are, I have questions with Baltimore. Do you? I think you have to just based on the way that last year went,

and there are some personnel things. You know, like their entire interior defensive line is hurt right now. Marlon Humphrey is clearly on the back half of his career. they're relying on him at outside corner. They're not without their warts, and there are some things that would have me sleeping a little bit uneasy if I were a Ravens fan. At the same time, though, I think I get it.

I understand why there is this level of optimism because even without Tyler Linderbaum, I think the offensive line will be significantly better this year. I'm really excited about what Declan Doyle could be as a play call. I mean, this is really going to be the first time we see somebody try to emulate what Ben Johnson has done over the last few years. No one's picked off the Ben Johnson tree yet. They did.

And so if you think that Declan Doyle can be a really exciting offensive play caller, Jesse Minter has already shown that he's one of the best defensive coaches in the league. And I do think that there's an underlying level of talent here, even if there are some problem areas where if it clicks on both sides of the ball, if we have play callers on both sides of the ball that are really elevating everybody on that roster, I would not be shocked if we got to the end of the season and this was the best team in the AFC. I believe that that is within the realm of outcomes for them, absolutely. Okay, so you go to all these camps and I'll say it.

You've been Ravens, Cowboys, Rams, Chargers, Seahawks, Texans, Panthers, Cardinals, Falcons, commanders, Jags at the Eagles. Has there been a camp you went to and you went, oh, no, don't love it, something's not right? I'm going to guess commanders, but is there one that you just drove away thinking not as tight as it needs to be? I think that because of the urgency, Washington is probably the answer to that, where you feel that last year and how much of a down swing it was, if they don't win now, I think they're going to be in a tough spot. Arizona, obviously, is just in a completely different spot as an organization. It doesn't matter if the Cardinals win four games this year. It matters if the commanders win four games this year.

And so when you fire both your coordinators and you replace those guys, that's a message that things, need to change in a hurry. And so, yeah, I think in terms of a combination of urgency and real questions about the roster, I would say that Washington is really the only team I've seen that checks both of those boxes. Okay, the athletic football show, our friend Robert Mays, and if you ever bump into him, ask him about a Chicago restaurant, Rick. He's pretty good there, too. As always, my saying, good seeing you. Good seeing you. See, Ted. See, Your Honor. All right. That's a great job. Our staff loves his pod. Fans. Carrie Brownstein and Fred Armisen here. The Dream of the 90s is alive in podcast form.

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