The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Blazing 5 - Week 1

Episode Date: September 12, 2020

First, Colin goes over his Blazing 5 picks with RJ Bell of Pregame.com & Fox Sports Radio and RJ tells him which picks the sharps in Vegas agree with. This week's games are:Browns @ RavensJets @ BillsSeahawks @ FalconsRaiders @ panthersCowboys @ RamsColin also gives a bonus pick not included in his Blazing 5.Then, Colin talks with Author Jeff Benedict to talk about his new book, 'The Dynasty' which chronicles the New England Patriots going from the NFL's joke to the greatest dynasty we've ever seen. He shares some incredible stories about Bill Belichick and Robert Kraft. He also shares the details about Tom Brady's thumb injury in the 2018 playoffs that you will not believe. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Welcome everybody to our Saturday podcast, and it gets really good and really lively during the football season. Later, we'll talk to Jeff Benedict, New York Times bestselling author of The Dynasty, the definitive inside story of the Patriots. It's really good. And before we go to that, though, we bring in R.J. Bell, pregame. game.com. We do this every Saturday morning through the football season next 16, 17 weeks. Talk about my Blazing 5 picks and what are the

sharps in Vegas, do they agree or disagree with them? So first, here is my Blazing 5. Let's blaze it up. Fire it up. It's Collins, at Ravens. I rarely swallow over a touchdown, but I'm going to take Baltimore minus

seven and a half. Here's a little interesting thing. Nobody's worst the 15 years than the Browns on opening games. Why? Because they're always changing stuff. Oh, wait. They changed stuff again. It's a new coaching staff. Cleveland beat Baltimore last year. Okay. Baltimore's not overlooking Cleveland. Remember last year, Browns went into and just punched them in the throat, and Baltimore is fully aware of it. Also, not only are the Browns bad in week one. They haven't won since 2005. Their last in wins, point differential, and turnover differential. The Ravens led the NFL in rushing, and I believe their rushing game will be better.

And this is a testament to John Harbaugh in coaching. Ravens have held their opponents to 10 points or fewer in the last four season openers. That's what great defensive coaches do all summer. They figure out that opener. I don't like to swallow a lot of points, but I'm taking the Ravens' 33 to 20. Jets at bills. I'll take the Jets plus six and a half and here's why. Josh Allen was bad last year. He was pretty good against Dallas and that's the game you watch, right?

But Josh Allen was last in passing yards, passing touchdowns, completion percentage, passing rating among quarterbacks over the last two years with a minimum 25 starts. He's been bad. The coaching staff is great. He's not been good. He wasn't good as last year at Wyoming. The bills have scored fewer than. 20 points in each of their last five games last year, including the playoff loss.

Now, I don't like the fact Jamal Adams has gone, but C.J. Mosley was gone last year, too. Six and a half points when I get the better quarterback, and there's no question. The Jets have upgraded at wide receiver, tied end and offensive line. Buffalo may win 2420. Six and a half is way too many points to give the Jets. Buffalo weather won't be an issue. They've got some new personnel on the outside that I think will be a handful for the bills. Bills win.

Love the Jets plus six and a half. Seahawks at Falcons. Like it, I love it. I'll take Atlanta plus two and a half, my pick of the weekend. Falcons played really well last year. Won their last four, and they won six of their last eight to support their coach. He may get fired, but they like him. And Matt Ryan has figured out Pete Carroll.

They've faced each other seven times. Ryan's 5 and 2, his passer ratings over 100, 16 T's 4 picks. Matt Ryan's done really well against Pete Carroll defenses, and this is not one of Pete Carroll's great defenses. Also, for all their issues, Matt Ryan's not the problem. The offense isn't the problem. It was a top five offense last year, playing at home, and they were a top three passing offense. And remember this. As much as I love Russell Wilson, it is really hard in the NFL to go on the road cross-country.

against a Pro Bowl level quarterback when you, Seattle, have a significantly worse offensive line and defensive line. That's hard to do in the NFL. We're going into a stadium on the road. We have easily the worst O-line and D-line in the game. Atlanta's getting points. Atlanta's going to win it. 24-23.

Raiders at Panthers. I know, I know, I know. A bunch of new stuff for Carolina. But can I just say something? Of course I can. It's my show. Teddy Bridgewater's good. I'll show you something funny. Best winning percentage is a starting quarterback in the last five years. Minimum 20 starts. Lamar, Garoppolo, Brady Mahomes. Teddy Bridgewater. He's 16 and 6. And he also has a history of walking into a playbook and figuring it out. He's got a lot of college starts. He's got some NFL starts. This is a guy they inserted into New Orleans last year. He was ready to go. He does not make mistakes. He's

got a world-class running back. I've always thought their wide receivers are underrated. The offensive line is good enough. Middle of the pack. Now, defensively, they're in a rebuild, and they put a lot of their draft picks on the defensive side, but the Raiders were a bad team last year. Not just on defense. Week 12 on, the Raiders were bad offensively with all those weapons. It's a Gruden Derek Carr issue. The Raiders were a bad road team. Two and six, and lost, outscored by 90 points. Worst road point. differentiate in the NFL. I don't like all the change in Carolina, but I'm getting over a field goal from a quarterback that wins, figures out playbooks, and has arguably the best running back

coach and a new creative head coach. I'm going to take Carolina to beat the Radas 2827. Cowboys and Rams. I think the Rams are the better team and they're getting points at home. I'm going to take Los Angeles plus three. First of all, the Cowboys only had seven defensive interceptions last year. Translation. They don't make offenses uncomfortable. They don't. The Rams O-line is healthy. Same quarterback, same coach, same system, same left tackle, same wide receivers, same tight end. This is a good Rams team with a super, hyper, creative head coach. Sean McVean season openers. This is what creative head coaches do. He's 3-0, average 36 points. Two of the three wins came by plus 20 points. Jared Goff, by the way, for all the heat he gets, in the last four weeks,

average 330 yards passing second best in the NFL higher than mahomes why cooper cup Robert woods good tight ends by the way cam acres rookie running back out of florida state has been the talk of the camp as has van jefferson wide receiver from florida i think dallas if they played in a month maybe the better team but i think this is continuity been a quiet camp The Rams are healthy. The walking on eggshell girly thing is gone. I like the Rams to win this game in their new stadium. 28 to 27.

A lot of points scored here. That is my blazing five. And with that RJ Bell, founder, pregame.com, also host the show straight out of Vegas on Fox Sports Radio 6 to 7 Eastern. Twitter account at RJ in Vegas. All right. So here we go, my friend. Let's start. I do not, as you know, I like underdogs general.

If you give me a competent quarterback and points, I generally like underdogs, but I'm going to swallow the points big here. I'm going to take the Ravens minus seven and a half, and here's my reasoning. One of the reasons the Browns the last 15 years haven't won an opener, constant change in flux. What do you know? Without a preseason, a new coaching staff. Meanwhile, John Harbaugh, last four years, has held opponents in openers to tenor fewer points. Translation, in a year with no preseason, I bring back a veteran staff, a significantly better quarterback, and I just think the best roster in the league, the rare I'm going to swallow

seven and a half, maybe eight points, and take the Ravens. What do the wise guys say? Well, first, to start the year, let's just say this, as Collins gotten just more and more famous, more and more successful. I mean, as big of voices you can have in sports, it seems like people love to see you occasionally be proven objectively wrong. So I'm not going to hold that back, you know, Hollywood or whatever with your level now, not being held back, but I do agree on this one, agreement. Now, there's value and then there's a good handicap. Now, those are actually sometimes opposite. Your handicap is great, but man, I

hate the value. I mean, I think it's the right side, but seven and a half. It's over that touchdown. But here's why I agree with you. Not only has Baltimore done well defensively to start seasons, but look at last year's game against

Miami. Yeah, Miami. And I was thinking of Jacksonville the tanking team this year. But I mean, they just killed them. Why tackling? They didn't want deal with that physical pounding that Baltimore is able to give. And if we saw anything last night or Thursday night, it was tackling is going to be a problem. Yes. Early. So I think Lamar Jackson, the best running quarterback in the history of the NFL, they run as much as any team in the

history of the NFL. And running seems to be really, really a good thing to do right now, right? in COVID. And we know Harbaal has probably two or three more iterations of tweaks where you do this eventually league, I'm going to do this. And I think of the offseason is when he tinkers with it. We know he does. And he might have a trick or two if this game is tight, which could be very meaningful. Quickly on the Browns.

Now I'm going to say this as a shocker. I think the Browns come week 10 might be. be the 10th best team in football, maybe even the 8th. You actually look, they took that O line that was a weakness, and it's probably going to be a strength, but it's not, Colin, I don't think going to be a strength early in the year, because if there's one underrated unit that needs time to have cohesion, it's O lines. So teams that have had, and your next pick actually, the Jets, is a team that actually has new O linemen.

And in fact, five new ones, I think those teams are going to really suffer. Browns have a couple of them. I think that limits them. And they have a new coach. And in COVID, the changes you make in between seasons are like doubly tough. And really, our handicaps are going to be focused on that the first four weeks. So disagreement, Baltimore. Okay, I'm going to take the Jets plus six and a half at the bills.

Now, if this was late in the year, it's snowy, you got a sold out Bill's mom. it's different. You're not going to have a home field advantage, weather is not an issue, and I think Josh Allen is highly elevated by his staff. I think Sam Darnold is flourishing despite his surroundings. And I also think the Jets are used to playing without CJ Mosley. I thought they generated a very good pass rush last year. And again, in a game where the over under is about 39 to 40. Six and a half is a lot of points for a very capable offense. They're good at tight end, Levian Bell, Sam Darnold, James and Crowder. I just think, I like Buffalo to win, but I think it's too many points. I like the value of the Jets. What do the wise guys say?

Disagreement here. And I don't like Lane six and a half and you make a very sharp point. And this is one the listener should think about is the more. points expected in a game, the less each point means if you're laying it. Not that you want to lay a bunch, but hey, if you're getting 10 in the total was 36,

you're feeling pretty good. Now, you can't bet that blind, but it's a big factor. Here's what I think is the problem with the Jets. And let me just ask you because for new listeners, Colin has, you know, we've done in one version or another,

this wise guy grading, I think this is year eight or nine. And I'm telling you right now, your record over that time is better than 95% of like professional pick people. No, not that, I'm not saying the wise guys making the big money living in the mansions.

I'm saying guys are tried to sell picks for a living. You've won, I think every, you might have had a break even or two. It's been amazing. So I respect the heck out of your opinion. So let me ask you, The Jets have five new O-line starters in a year that's going to be a huge deal. How concerned are you about that?

Well, I do think they've upgraded at center and left tackle. So even though they're new, they've upgraded. But in game one, do you think they're better than replacement level even? Yes, because I thought they were horrible last year. Now, here's what concerns me with the Jets. Early to the midpoint in the camp, RJ, Jets had a lot of running back and wide receiver Nix. I worry about the timing. They had a lot of receivers in back in the early camp to mid-camp miss a lot of practices.

That's where I think O-Line did not get hurt. O-Line is actually, according to the people I follow, really, the coaching staff's been really impressed with their cohesion. But when you miss, when you have a rookie receiver, Mims, and you need him, and he misses nine practices, that's an issue. So I think it's a low-scoring game, and I just think six and a half is too much to swallow. So first off, jets are thin at receiver to start with. Yes. Right. So that's a problem.

Now, let's be realistic here. What scenario did we really, could we see how the O line was actually doing? Meaning were they going full scrimmage for an extended period? No. So, I mean, and the fact that you're hearing that means they're worried about it. Usually if they say, oh, yeah, that unit's doing real well. That's cause for concern for that unit. And again, could be wrong.

But you, and if I'm not mistaken, you've made a huge point on this, that these linemen are coming out of college. And I know these aren't all rookies, but they're coming out of college. They're not able to run block. It's taken so long to get mature Lyman. You're seeing Lyman 35, 37 playing a lot longer than they used to. I just, the idea that in a normal year, it's tough to get to line with cohesion, the idea of a historic amount of switching and literally the worst year ever for switching, game one, big problem, quickly one or 10 seconds on Buffalo. I believe the better coaches have even more advantage with COVID because there's so many new things to think about. McDermott's excellent.

And I think teams on a mission, a sense that this is our year. And trading for digs means Buffalo believes this is their year and the fact that they were competitive to win the division. I think you've got a super focused Buffalo team disagreement. One of my favorite bets, Seattle at the Falcons, I'll take Atlanta plus two and a half. One, Dan Quinn is a former understudy on Pete Carroll staff. and for that reason, Matt Ryan has had great success against Pete Carroll's defenses. His passer ratings over 100. He's 5 and 2. Similarly, Seattle, Pete Carroll's known as a teacher. He's very good teaching young players.

Well, he better be because he's got a lot of different moving parts in the secondary now. I also think as good as Russell Wilson is, this may be the worst or second worst offensive line in the league, out east on the road. I like the way the Falcons played at the end of last year. going to take him at home plus two and a half. What do the wise guys think? Agreement here. And this is a very simple handicap. And sometimes there's a factor so big, nothing else matters. The weather can be that sometimes. It's going to be like nine to six no matter what. You can't lay points. Okay. The Falcons, the first half of the year pre-buy were maybe the worst team in the NFL. I mean, I don't think they were, but they were close. And the

second half of the year, if you would have just had, and I know you're just guessing in the moment, but if you would have had a herd hierarchy of just the second half of the year, or just assume the second half got flipped and it was the first half, where would Atlanta be at six and two having two big, big upsets, double digits on the road out of those six wins? Well, they were inspired. The coach was on the hot seat and they played hard, which told me they like the coach. It's not a coach issue. They like this coaching staff. And I think that's a big deal. And I do think I've said this.

If you played well at the end of the last year, or like the Raiders poorly, I don't think you could, a bad team at the end of last year hasn't had the games to fix some of their issues. Similarly, if you were playing good last year at the end without preseason, there's a good vibe in the locker room. And I like what Atlanta's how they're playing at the end of last year. No, that tougher to turn it around is actually, I have not heard it said that way. that is a very interesting point. I think we might not be given proper credit, though,

to one thing with Atlanta. So as I'm sure you know, is at that break point, the buy, is Quinn stopped calling the defense. And what he did was he actually brought in, and they kind of split the duties to some degree, but that Rahim Morris, who was on the offensive side of the ball,

actually started calling a majority of the defensive calls. and if you look at their numbers, the defense got like drastically better and the offense not as much. So to me, it wasn't, oh, they weren't playing hard. I mean, Quinn was almost a foregone conclusion he was out. He was the favorite to be the first guy fired, the betting favor. So it wasn't fight. I don't think it was fighting for his job. I think they made a fundamental change schematically with a new coach and effectively the defense looks great.

and that's why I like Atlanta, because if you actually look at their second half and grade the team this year that way, they're much better than Vegas thinks. Vegas is looking at the whole season as if all the games were weighted equal. I don't think they should be. Second half should get priority, which means Atlanta's better, which means I agree. Raiders at the Panthers, Teddy Bridgewater is a quick learner. I'm going to take Carolina plus three and a half. Bridgewater's history is you can kind of insert him, any, anytime anywhere, and he wins a lot of games.

Secondly, the Raiders, we think we like the Raiders offense. Their offense was anemic week 12 on. I think Gruden and Derek Carr have issues again. When you've got strife and chaos and issues, no OTAs and preseason to fix it, this is just too many points. I don't know if the Panthers win, but I just think it's too many points. I like the value of the home team over a field goal with a very capable quarterback that doesn't make mistakes. They'll run it a lot with McCaffrey, low-scoring game.

What do the wise guys think? Okay. Disagreement here, and this is the opposite of the agreement you had with Baltimore. We didn't have a great line, but I think we had the right handicap. Here, you're getting a great line. Three and a half is as high as it's been. This thing opened up. Panthers favored by one. I mean, this is like in June or whatever, but like this has been

steady Oakland money. Now, I don't think it's as much about Oakland, but let me quickly make that case, which is this is an older team. And one thing that I think we've seen is, and we've lamented this, there might be that fourth or fifth round pick that would have made the team, but they're keeping one extra veteran because with all the uncertainty, they don't want another concern of teaching this guy where the bus gets picked up. You know, they just want to keep continuity, these teams. Gruden has done that more than anyone,

and I think it hurts the Raiders later, like next year where maybe they should have had a young guy that's on another team now, but this year I think it helps them, at least early in the year. Now, the big thing I disagree with you is with the Panthers. I love what they're doing in five years, 10 years.

This might seem crazy. if we had a draft of pick a team, you pick a team, I pick a team, right? We snaked it. And it was just who's going to win the number of Super Bowls your team wins over the next 10 years. If I get half the league and you get half the league, I literally would take Carolina maybe seventh or eighth. I'm that optimistic about them long term because I just love what the owner's doing. But this year, this game might be the worst situation any team's been in.

you have a head coach that hasn't coached in the NFL for like six or eight years and he was with a Giants like a year or two, Matt Rule. You've got a defensive coordinator that's never coached a snap in the NFL. And now he has a defense with eight new starters out of 11. And you have a new quarterback no matter how good he may be down the road. And you mentioned Bridgewater and saying, oh, he's always, well, he won with Sean Payton. and let's be honest that was one of the best teams in the league the Saints and he did fine but his QBR

none of the stats looked great he just was a a game manager at most and the last time he's really played was pre-injury before that so I'm not saying you're wrong I'm saying I don't think the evidence is in yet but if there's any team affected by COVID the most

it's the Panthers thus even though I think the number is starting to get juicy still like the Raiders My favorite pick of the week, Rams plus three over the Cowboys. Number one is, I think it's a coaching mismatch. McVeigh is a great opening game coach. Why?

So is Doug Peterson. Why? So is Andy Reed. Why? Because they're creative, offensive coaches who get the yellow pad out during the summer and throw in some exotics and different looks, and they catch people off guard. The Rams return their head coach, their left tackle, their quarterback, their tight end, their two top receivers.

It's a lot of continuity here, and they're getting points at home for a cowboy team that struggled against elite competition. I think this, I'm surprised I'm getting three points. Favorite bet of the week. What are the wise guys think? Love it. Love it. Love it. This is going to be, I think, potentially one of those bets that we look back on in like 10 weeks and go, oh, man, I wish we had another one like this one.

Not saying it's going to even win, but I think we're going to see we had the right. side. Sometimes you lose and have the right side, right? So, I mean, that's what makes this game tough. Here's why I think so. One, and let me ask you, how much do you account for this DAC stuff, you know, that came out end of the week? Well, I mean, he had a very, a lot of news with his offseason. There was a lot of, you know, emotional turmoil. So, and the Rams, maybe in a big city, but they made no news. It's just continuity, same old. I think Dallas had a, I think Dak had a tough offseason. No doubt.

But the fact that if we were to ask that question on Tuesday, it would have been like, yeah, obviously with the family, you know, brother and all that tough. But, hey, if anything, football can be a distraction. You know, I don't think we would have even been talking. In fact, I know we wouldn't have been talking about DAC and the distractions so much. Now that he's saying not only is this contract a big deal,

you know, mental health questions. I mean, and I'm not. saying that in any negative way as much as in a sympathetic way. And you got to account for that. But then you think about McCarthy, however good he is or isn't, and Aaron Rogers is like on the other side

of that coin. It's almost like you can't like both of them, which I think maybe you can't, right, because they're diametrically opposed in some ways. Because someone has to be blamed for Green Bay relatively underperforming all those years. And they did. If you have one of the best quarterbacks of all time, you're supposed to make more than

one Super Bowl. And they didn't. But Dallas did keep the OC, but is that good or bad? See, I don't understand because maybe there's conflict. Who knows? But this is what I know about the Rams. This is their last chance. Bill Simmons actually picked the Rams. I think this is crazy.

But it goes to show you that if you look at him at a certain angle, he picked the Rams to be the number one seed in the NFC. I don't think it's nuts. I don't. I think they're receiving core. if you told me quarterback tight-end receiving core, I think it's one of the best groupings in an increasingly offensive league.

No, I hear you. And supposedly the way Phillips, you know, being jettisoned is an upgrade and at least there's going to be some youth and vigor in there. And one thing I read in the off-season just struck me. And if you just read, you sometimes catch stuff.

You don't even know why it matters. This is pre-COVID, Colin, is the Rams literally were not sending either coordinator, both of them knew, or McVeigh to the Combine, which is almost unheard of. They were so hunkered down and working, and they're trying to turn this thing around because they know this is the season. Because after this year, and the Ramsey contract just finalized it, they're in Cap Hell after this year.

If they're going to do anything, it's this year. But everyone feels like they're already writing the epilogue on the Rams. But the question is, other than Gurley and some dead money there, what really is different about this team than it would have been last year when entering the year they were one of the Super Bowl favorites after almost winning the Super Bowl? The O-Line's gotten older. I get it. I don't think they're as good, but they're within shouting distance. And this is saying Dallas is like five points better. Home field here is about one and a half or two instead of three.

So if Dallas is laying three, they're like four and a half points better. I think that's impossible. Love the Rams. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

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Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Keer Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

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growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Learn the Hardway, and listen now. Finally, briefly, I do a bonus pick. I didn't put this in the Blazing Five, but I considered it. I'd take Miami plus six and a half at the Patriots. Fitzpatrick's a very good September quarterback. I think the eight opt-outs for New England are significant. Some of those players were vital.

They lost key free agents, and Cam hasn't. frankly, had enough snaps at practice, I think I'd take the dolphins plus six and a half, but the number tells me I'm wrong. What do the wise guys say? I got to do this first, because this is one of the joys of getting to do this show. And it really is. When I'm screaming at the radio all the time, and we talk off air occasionally, but I don't bother, I don't call you and say, Colin, I got a problem with one of your takes, right?

So I finally get occasionally to say, do you really believe the Patriots take you've got? Oh, absolutely. I think they're restructuring. They're a five-win team. So if I give you two-to-one odds, would you bet $5,000 on it? Because I'm right out, $5,000 to win $10,000. Okay, let's change it to $6 and $10. Six and $10. What do you, well, you just are laying more money. I'm saying you bet $5,000 to win $10,000. $5,000 is a lot of money. I'm a working man.

You want to do $1,000 to win $2,000? Yes. All right. So the over-under, you should. said it's going to be five. Yes. So we'll make our over and under five and a half. I'm going to take the under. Yeah. So if it's five wins like you said, you win, I owe you $2,000. And if it's six or more, you owe me $1,000. That's very, I feel very good about it. As a working man, I like those eyes. Now, you've made it low enough that you had to take it. I just got a great bat. And listen, I love it's just, I love that it's a take no one else has. It's just, I

guess my question is when has Belichick ever not tried to win? Because when Bray, think about it, when Bletso went down, way back when, remember, they were 0-2 after that game. Brady, who was a six-round pick two years, you know, the year prior was coming in, who in the heck thought they could win the Super Bowl? But did he give up? I just don't see when they would give up. He's ever given up. When do rich guys try to lose money when they need a tax write off? Yeah, yeah. So Belichick needs a quarterback because you can't win in this league without one, and there's three great college quarterbacks.

Then why sign Cam at all? Actually, because he'll share snaps with Stidham, neither will get the proper snaps, and they'll both be mediocre. So you think actually this platooning is he's actually sabotaging his own team? Well, not sabotaging. I think Bill has a plan for having scrambled eggs in the, the morning. The idea that he's just making it up, eight opt out, doesn't re-sign free agents, bills got a plan. Yeah. So because you're smart enough to know the aggregators were to grab

that one, you dodged it. I won't press it. But you just really just repeated the same thing of saying that, hey, it is a sabotage. I don't want to use that word, but it's a plan, which doesn't change it's a sabotage. So anyway, quickly, and I can do this in 30 seconds, I believe if there's ever a you're going to hear the announcer say, wow, what a gadget play there. Belichick for the first time in 20 years has a new quarterback and one with a different skill set and their ability to do things that Miami has no idea about, I think is the difference in this game. Forgetting the fact that Miami's getting so much love, Peter King saying they're going to win

the division. I look at Miami the same way I do, Carolina. Great midterm future, not ready now. It's less than a touchdown. this game. Pats is the side disagreeing it. Good stuff. RJ Bell, so good to be back trying to make America's mortgage payment. If not, it's just for fun, gambling, spreading across America. It's our kind of America. RJ, good talking to you. You're doing your part, Carlin. Thank you.

My next guest on our Saturday podcast is Jeff Benedict, author of his latest masterpiece called The Dynasty. The last time I read him, he was a co-author of Tiger Woods with my friend Armand Ketain a couple of years back. That is a must read as well. He's also been the author of Quarterback. My Life Behind the Spiral, Steve Young, recommend that written years ago as well. But it's the dynasty and the detailed, in-depth analysis and information that is quite something. And Jeff Benedict is now joining us. Let me start with this.

When you write a book, obviously, and this just jumps right off the pages, you need trust, you need information. And I was not shocked, but surprised in the level of detail of Robert Kraft and the quotes and his willingness to really allow you to go to some pretty painful places. Were you surprised? How did you either curry favor or create that trust with, Bob Kraft? I don't know if I was surprised, Colin.

I try not to think about that too much when it's happening, meaning I pinched myself a lot working on this project because I just felt so fortunate to be doing something that I knew was an incredibly unique opportunity. And in terms of building trust, I tried to do that just by being around a lot. early on in the project, really before I started doing interviews, I spent a lot of time around the organization, trying to get to know people, trying to get to know Robert Kraft. My first few

sessions with him, I wouldn't consider them interviews because these were more like conversations. I wasn't the information that he was sharing with me. I didn't treat it as information that was sort of fair game for inclusion in a book. At that point, in my mind, that was just trying to figure out, is this something that I would be able to do? And what kind of person is he, who is he? And I think him sort of getting to know me a little bit as well. And I considered him, Colin, to me, the most important person in the story, because he's the one that we know the least about amongst the big three, Kraft and, excuse me, Belichick and Brady being the other two.

So I spent more time trying to develop and understand his role in the dynasty from the formative years on to the present. Jeff, I think for somebody maybe that did not, you know, in their 20s or early 30s, Jeff, they forget what a mess this organization was. And I don't want to give too much away. but at one point, I was reading the book and laughing. You know, we tend to forget how difficult the struggle is. Give our listeners just some sense, though, of what a mess the Patriots were pre-Bob Kraft.

They were the most dysfunctional organization in the National Football League, both on the field and off. They were perennial losers on the field. and from a financial and management standpoint, they were like a dumpster fire. And I think that the league was worn out with the financial problems because they were repeatedly having to bail them out. Just so the team could make payroll. Yeah.

And things of that nature. The stadium went into bankruptcy. It was a mess. It was a bad stadium. Yeah, it was a bad stadium. And the management of the team was, I mean, they went through, you know, a series of ownership changes like rapid fire. It went from the Sullivan's to Victor Cayam,

and then it went from Victor Cayam to James Orthwine, and then Orthwine was getting ready to move the team to St. Louis. It got to the point with Paul Taglibuh, that he was spending more time dealing with management and sexual harassment allegations in the locker room, and it was just one thing after the other. Jeff Benedict, joining us, author of The Dynasty.

I'm just wrapping it up. Read it last night as I was watching some NBA playoffs in the background. A lot of details. This is a deep dive. And I want to stay on Kraft because so Robert Kraft initially owned the parking lot before. That was kind of his device, his way of getting in. Then he gets the team. And again, we forget this.

It was not easy for him initially. Pre-Belichick, you had the Pete Carroll years where they were good but getting worse. There was Bill Parcells. I want to go into the Parcells relationship. I've always been a fan of Parcells, but I didn't find him entirely likable in this book. Was Parcells perhaps a bit more dysfunctional than the football media has reported? Because the big tuna, he is revered. He's kind of on that Rushmore group.

But as I read your book, I thought to myself, Bill Parcells. ourselves was a pain in the bot. Is that fair? I wouldn't call him dysfunctional. I think he was very functional because his record, his record's too good to consider him dysfunctional. I think that what you see in the book is his coaching style. I don't think his style changed from New York to New England.

You got the same guy, and he had this big outsized personality. I think what happened in Foskwell, though, that was different, is that when Robert Kraft buys the team, he inherits Parcells. Parcells has been there for one year, and probably the most important thing he did in that first year was he drafted Drew Bledsoe. So Kraft buys the team and inherits a great coach and a great budding quarterback.

But Kraft is coming in at a time when the NFL is going through a major transformation because they have now brought in free agency, which is brand new, and they've introduced a salary cap. And those are two big sea changes in the way the game is going to be coached and managed. And these are new concepts for Parcells. I see Parcells as the old guard and I see Kraft as the new guard. And they meet each other at a crossroads in the NFL. So you have this old style of running and coaching football with this new style.

Craft is young at that time. His son is, of course, even much younger. And they are all about the salary cap, free agency management, trying to get the team under budget and get their financial house in order because he's just spent more money than anyone has ever spent in the history of the NFL to buy the worst team in the league. And so Parcells has this, you know, history of spending money on free agents, giving them four-year deals, a lot of them don't work out.

He's freewheeling on that side of it. and Kraft is trying to be disciplined financially, and there's a clash of cultures. And I think it sets off this great drama that plays out between them over the next three years. It's really fascinating to go back. You know, you forget little details of it as it played out publicly. Jeff Benedict, the author of the dynasty, I think, folks, if you love football like I do and love Parcells, you'll just eat up these stories of how really difficult it was. They were winning games. and then Pete Carroll comes in. He's fine, but he's a little soft. You know, I kind of felt with a Pete Carroll hire, and I've worked in enough newsrooms in my life where the pendulum swings. You have

the gruff guy, and then you hire the likable guy. And then after a few years with a likable guy, you're like, you know, there were some things about the gruff guy we liked. So Pete Carroll, a little soft, pro player doesn't work. Now we move into the Belichick stage. And, you know, people can forget that it was not all rosy. It was the end of Drew Blanchex. led so, and it's the beginning of Belichick. So let's go back to the first year, Jeff, of that relationship, and bring people back into, you know, we think about the 20-year dynasty, but it was tenuous. They were going into the second year, and they got off to a bad start. Oh, they really did. I mean, and you also have to remember that Kraft received overwhelming advice, much of it unsolicited,

by the way, from around the league, from the league office to fellow owners who are all telling him the same thing. Don't make the mistake of hiring Bill Belichick. That's right. It'll be the biggest mistake you've ever made in your life. If you think Parcells was difficult, way do you get this guy? I remember a Sports Illustrated article. Belichick was very rarely do you get a grumpy, difficult losing coach. I mean, he was, I remember those. I remember those. days and your book pointed out, there was a lot of pushback on Belichick. A tremendous amount. And, you know, Kraft makes a fairly bold move in selecting him as the coach. But the thing was, he really wanted to do it three years earlier when he hired Carol.

His gut was telling him, this guy is the guy, but his heart was telling him that he couldn't trust him because of his close connection to Parcell. That's right. for the next three years, he regrets that he didn't do it then, and it becomes all about how do I get him here? I think it's interesting when Belichick gets there, the expectations are low because everybody thinks this is a mistake. But I loved, while working on this book one day when I was in Kraft's office, I was looking at all the pictures on the wall and things that are hanging there. And I saw this picture of Ted Williams and Babe Ruth, which I've seen before. It's a famous photograph.

It wasn't that that caught my eye. It was the handwritten note under it that said, Robert, thanks for giving me the opportunity to coach your team. Let's hope we will be as successful as these two fellas, Bill. And I thought, wow, like Belichick wrote this handwritten note to Kraft and gave him this picture of Ted Williams and Babe Ruth on September 3rd, 2000, which was the morning of the first game that Belichick coached in Foxborough against Tampa Bay. They lost that game. And then they lost the next game and the next game and the next game. I mean, his start in New England was

ugly and his first season finished five and 11. It was not a good time in Foxborough for anybody. And that's the same year they drafted Brady, who, of course, didn't play at all that first year. He was the fourth string quarterback relegated to the practice squad. But that's the scene in Foxborough heading into the 2001 season when everything changes. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all. embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators,

and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me,

your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness, in this month. I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you're

you here on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, I Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now.

It's a fascinating read, and it just grabs you as a reader. I'm not going to give away the Bledso story to start. It's too good. I want to stay on more topical stuff. But it starts with a Drew Bledsoe story that I had never heard and I know Drew. So let's go into drafting Tom Brady. How close did they get to not drafting Brady? Well, I think they were close all the time because a quarterback was the absolute last thing that the Patriots

needed. When Belichick took over the team in 2000, they needed help at every position on the roster except quarterback. And so when they looked at all the players on the board, while they rated Brady high, in terms of need, he was the lowest because they didn't need a quarterback. But what happened with them, and this answer is really the question, Colin about people say, well, if Belichick was so smart and he thought Freddie was so great, why did he wait until a hundred and ninety-nine pick? Well, was a real simple answer for that. They didn't need a quarterback. And so as time wore on in the draft, and he, Belichick keeps seeing him, there's this great scene that actually played out repeatedly in the war room, which was Belichick looking at his staff and basically asking sort of philosophically,

why is he still on the board? And he kept doing it as the rounds went on and on. And finally, I think Belichick just decided there was too much value there, even though they didn't need him, to allow him to just sit there. So he took him. And I think the thing he noticed the most, and that was he was most attracted to with Brady, it obviously wasn't his foot speed. It wasn't his arm strength or any of that.

It was that when he scouted Brady, what he noticed was when Michigan was behind and when the clock was running out, Brady played his best football. And in Belichick's mind, that's an intangible that you can't teach a quarterback. and very few, even very few pro quarterbacks possess that ability. It seemed inherent in Brady.

That proved to be true when Brady finally got to play in 01, and he demonstrated over and over again that he was just incredibly cool under pressure. And that quality was everything to Belichick. Jeff Benedict, the author of The Dynasty, also co-author of The Magnificent Tiger Woods with Armand Catan, We remember the last few years and the tension with Brady and Belichick, Tom Verstime, the documentary where Zazel famously said he just wants to go to work and feel respected. Let's go back to the beginning stages where Brady sort of bailed out Belichick, who was losing,

and Belichick significantly elevated Tom Brady's stature in life. Were the first in the first Super Bowl, the first four or five years, was the relationship more fatherly? Was it closer? Or is there always been a, I'm the coach, you're the quarterback relationship? I don't think it was ever fatherly.

You know, maybe the closest that you get to fatherly is perhaps the morning after the very first Super Bowl. And basically,

you know, Belichick and Brady that night after the Super Bowl, there's this great scene in Belichick's hotel room where Brady comes down there and basically asks permission if it's okay for him to not fly back with the team so he can go to Disney World and do his thing because he's the MVP. And Belichick's kind of like, of course it's okay. Like how many times do you get to go to the Super Bowl? And there's that kind of thing. And you also have Belichick sort of coaching him a little bit about how his life is about to change

and congratulating him for doing a good job and things of that nature. But I wouldn't describe those moments as fatherly. I think it's more mentor. He's certainly doing some mentoring there. And you're right, they both rely on each other immensely that first year. Belichick basically staked his future on Brady. He did. If Brady doesn't perform and things go south that year,

Belichick has completely opened himself up for massive criticism because he didn't play the starter, the superstar starter, who was sitting there holding a clipboard. So he hitches his wagon to Brady. And I think Brady in return certainly recognizes that and appreciates the fact that the coach has placed a tremendous amount of trust and confidence in him and he delivers. And so that's the formation of their relationship. And over time, certainly, in the early years as they rack up three Super Bowls and four years, that's what it's all about. But there's an interesting change in 2005 when they've won the success of Super Bowls. And Tom has emerged as this superstar and the new face of the NFL, the Young Gun.

And Belichick seems to work harder at that point to constantly remind him that he is going to be treated just like everyone else, calling him Johnny Foxborough. front of the team and be rating him actually in practices and meetings. That's, and then that will go on for years and years and years and of course become more, it grades on you more as time goes on. You interviewed Bob Kraft, Bill Belichick, and Tom Rady in the book. Craft really let a lot of himself out from what I can tell. Belichick is notorious. private. Do you think he ever regrets? Not rigidity, but some of his dealings with Tom, and that I saw, it was funny, his last year, Brady in New England, Belichick gave him the

game ball, and it was so damn uncomfortable. Do you think Belichick, not that he would ever lack self-awareness, but has ever looked back and thought, you know, I was rough on Tom, you know, especially the day Brady informs Belichick and Kraft, he's going to Tampa. Do you think Belichick thinks that way, looking back briefly in the rearview mirror? I don't know, honestly, what he thinks now about that, and I would be reluctant to speculate on something in Bill's head like that. But what I'm more interested in, Colin, is what Coach Belichick thinks about Tom 10 years from now. because people do change with distance, people that have been in very close relationships,

marriages, partnerships, where there's a level of intimacy in a relationship. This relationship has all that. And certainly we saw, like, if there was a softening in Paul McCartney, as he got further away from the Beatles and looked back at his relationship with Lenin, you could see a softening and a change from where they were when they broke up when there was so much friction intention. And so I'm interested to see how they feel about each other a decade from now because they've just gone through this remarkable run as a partnership coach and quarterback that ran 20 years. And they worked away through a lot of incredibly stressful situations.

And, you know, I think there's a lot to be appreciated because the fact is, I think Kraft is right. He never looked at one of them as more responsible than the other for the dynasty. I think think he always saw them as equal contributors and how important it was to have both of them, to keep them married, to keep the two stars on the same stage. That to me is the genius of craft. Yeah. Well, and then as Tom ages, Jimmy Garoppolo gets drafted, and it was the highest draft spot Bill ever for a quarterback. It was second round. And I thought the tension, not palpable, but I thought it was a layman. As somebody like me, a sportscaster, I thought it was pretty clear.

Jimmy G. is a little stronger than Tom. He's got the rock solid. You know, he's this good-looking kid. And he's youthful. And I thought it was fairly obvious that, you know, as you age, if some young sportscaster walked into Fox, you know, the little insecurity, the vulnerability is fairly palpable. But Belichick had to go there. This is a business.

Bob Kraft had to go there. Do you think at the end before Jimmy G. moved to San Francisco, if you could share with us, do you think there was moments of tension and perhaps insecurity on Tom's part as he aged as a quarterback? Well, first of all, I think this is a great question, and I love this part of the story. And I'll tell you that I really benefited from having written Steve Young's biography. because this situation to me with Tom and Jimmy G. It's so analogous to when Steve Young arrived in San Francisco, and he was playing behind the king, Joe Montana,

who built the dynasty in San Francisco. And the feeling was at the time, Bill Walsh was convinced that Montana was at the end, and he had to bring someone in to replace him, and that was going to be the younger, more athletic, stronger Steve Young. What it did, though, which turned out to make Walsh look like a genius, was that the arrival of Young scared Montana, but it also infused him. And Joe Montana had two of the best seasons of his life after Young arrived.

I mean, it was as if he was rejuvenated with some youthful serum, and he went crazy in 88 and 89. I mean, the statistics and performance that he put up in those years while Steve Young was riding the bench, holding a clipboard, was phenomenal. And I remember having long conversations with Steve about this and with Carmen Policy, who was part of the deal-making process to bring Steve in. I thought a lot about that. And I even talked to Steve about it while I was working on this Patriots book, because you see a similar thing when Garoppolo arrives. I mean, if you look at Tom Brady's performance and productivity post the arrival of Garapolo, it's phenomenal. Yes.

I mean, the run that he goes on is just, it's unprecedented, particularly for his age. I mean, Montana started to tail off after those couple of incredible years. Tom really never did that. And I mean, and I think it got to the point after having Garoppel there for four years when it became clear that Tom's not done. I mean, and you can't keep both of them on the roster, just like the 49ers ultimately realized they couldn't keep Montana and Steve on the roster. The difference was they chose to keep Steve, whereas the Patriots ended up keeping Tom. And by the way, many speculated that creates a fissure between Kraft and Belichick. But Bob, Bill Parcells famously says, you know, if I'm going to cook the meal, I get to choose the groceries.

and Kraft let Belichick run the football operations, but there is a sense that was the one moment that Bob Kraft said, you know, Tom's almost a son, we have to move Garapolo. Do you think in that moment it was never the same? Not that it was distrust, Jeff Benedict joining us, but it was that little Parcells moment, that moment where Belichick thought, okay, this is not where we go. We're being sentimental. We're falling into, you know, the romance of the sport. Do you think moving Jimmy G, there's harboring resentment by Belichick, that perhaps that fissure was never healed? If that's the case, I didn't get the sense of that. And one of the things that I really appreciated and I thought was most illuminating about my interaction with Belichick, which, by the way, my interview with him, if you want to refer to it as that, was I put all my...

questions to him in writing, and he responded to all those questions in writing. And when he talked about his professional relationship with Kraft, I think it goes right to the heart of this question. It really demonstrated to me the difference of the Belichick-Craft relationship and the Parcell's craft relationship. Parcells never accepted the fact that this was Robert Kraft's team, and that ultimately he's the owner. That never set well with Parcells. That's right. Whereas when Belichick came in, he understood and bought into that from day one. Now, that relationship has obviously evolved over time and matured and become, it's deepened.

But that core principle has never changed for Belichick. He, and he respects that. And I think that's what I really took from some of his written answers where he talked about the fact that Kraft and I haven't always agreed on every decision. sometimes we disagree, but when we do, I understand that ultimately this is his team. To me, that's sort of a profound insight into how this relationship, how and why it works so well. Now, Kraft never abuses that element of it. He gives Belichick a tremendous amount of latitude and discretion way more than he gave Parcells. And so I think here, as I say in the book,

he never told Belichick that he had to move on from Garapolo. There was no edict from the owner to the coach about that. I think it was the way that I described it in the book. There was an understanding and they knew. And I think that what Belichick did was he kept Garapolo around for as long as he could, which was somewhat of a gamble because if they had moved on from Garoppolo sooner, you could argue they could have got more for him. And that's true. But there's a flip side to that is, what if something happens to Tom? He is that much older. What if he does get hurt? We have Garoppolo still here. And so that was a calculated risk that Belichick took. I happen to think it was smart. And when it became clear at the at the wire that now it's now, you know, I've got to make a

decision now and finally he makes the trade to San Francisco. Yeah, they got less for them, but they had the biggest insurance policy in the league for three and a half years. And you've got to now live with the outcome of that. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from Bats, basketball to college football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed cracks. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth?

Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway.

Open your free Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Jeff Benedict is the author of The Dynasty Special Features Writer Sports Illustrated, L.A. and New York Times, other books, Tiger Woods with Armin Katan, is really special. There's so many stories in this book that I always feel like when I interview an author, I don't want to give too much away, but I want to give you a taste of some of the interesting details. And I think it's kind of fascinating. You know, Brady, before the AFC title game in 2018 against, it was Jacksonville.

And Tom Brady, we had heard about an injury. and then after the game, we actually saw it, Jeff, and it was a tremendous gash. Let's go back to the hand surgery right before the AFC title game. You have some specific details about that. Yeah, this was to me one of the more compelling moments in the whole story. And everybody knows that Tom heard his hand, but when Dr. Liebman, who's the hand, surgeon hand specialist for the Bruins, the Patriots, and Red Sox, when he showed up at the stadium right after this happened and pulled the towel back from Tom's hand to look at the

injury, he could see to Tom's bone. I mean, that's how deep this gash was. Now, this was described publicly as a minor incident, minor injury that required four stitches. The truth was it required 25 sutures to close. Wow. And it was a, the depth of it was, you know, it was shocking to the doctor. And Tom thought his career was over in that moment. And the doctor, who's worked on a lot of athletes, didn't fathom the idea that Tom Brady would play in four days.

And so there's a moment after, you know, Belichick's in the room, Guerrero's in the room, Tom's, you know, body coach, the other team doctors, is a lot of tension in the room as the surgeon is looking at the hand and really realizing the significance of what's happened. After they all clear out and the doctor does the procedure and he's assisted by the team, the other team doctor, Rex Burkhead comes in. And Rex Burkhead was the running back who collided with Tom and caused the rupture. And Burkhead's in tears. I mean, he feels like this is all his fault and they are now lost a quarterback for the

playoff game and he's in tears and there's a great moment where Tom is basically trying to tell him it's not your fault and it's you know he doesn't blame him he says to him it's not your fault and he says don't worry and then he tells him I love you and it's a direct quote it's a great insight into who Brady is right now he's gone from I think my career is over to now trying to provide some solace to a teammate who's blaming himself and then if you fast forward just four days. It's now the day of the ASC championship game. And this is for me, probably my favorite scene in this chapter. It's this sequence where the Patriots have asked Dr. Lieman to be on the sideline for the AFC championship game. Normally, they wouldn't have the hand surgeon there,

but in this case, there's a lot of concern that Tom's injury, the stitches are going to rupture during the game. And so they want the surge in there in case that happens. And right before the game, we're talking minutes before the kickoff when the whole team is out on the field and the game's about to start. The surgeon's in the back room at the stadium getting his instruments ready in case he has to use them and in walks Brady in full uniform, closes the door, turns down the blinds, sits down at the training table, stretches out his arm and asks the doctor to snip off basically the heads of all the stitches because he doesn't like the feel of the little stitch knots pushing against his bandage when he grips a football. And the doctor is like going,

there's no way. He's looking at him like, Tom, he says, I don't want to touch these sutures. And Tom is basically saying, you've got to do it, you got to do it. And he keeps saying, I don't want to. And finally, he realizes he's going to lose the argument. So he snips off one by one,

little millimeters of the sutures on the wound. And then he redresses the wound. Brady stands up, grips the football, and tells him he feels better and says, thanks, buddy. And the doctor says, good luck. And then Tom walks out his cleats kind of click-clacking on the concrete as he heads out to the field. It's this incredible insight into who Brady is.

And the fact that nobody knew that story and that after the game, after this miraculous performance where Brady leads him in a comeback, and when Belichick's asked about all this and he's being pressed to say something about sort of Brady's bravery, he's like, you know, he says, Tom did a great job and he's a tough guy. We all know that, all right? but we're not talking about open heart surgery here. To me, I was thinking, to me, I thought, yeah, we're talking about open hand surgery here. This is a big deal. Yeah.

And so there's so much about that whole episode that I think is illuminating to where things were at that point in time. The Patriots under Belichick are obviously very covert known for their secrecy. Some of it from time to time gets out. We're in the information age. everything gets out. You know, in this book, you've got transcripts, recordings, documents, emails. A lot of people will look back at this dynasty, and they'll use the word cheat, manipulate. You're all done with a book.

What is the word to address spygate, deflategate? What is the word to describe the critical? of this dynasty? I would use the word envy. And that's why I have a chapter called the envy of the league. There's so much in that. And as you know, I delve deeply into all of these scandals. All of them. I go right into them. I don't go around them. I go through them. And that's, in fact, what the team did. And I felt as a writer that I needed to take the same approach, I needed to delve right into these and look at them. And I think, you know, where I came down at the end of the day is SpyGate was real. I think in context, the reason the league put out a memo heading into the 2007 season

telling teams to knock it off is because everybody was doing it. Yes. What the Patriots got caught doing, everybody was doing. That's why the league was so concerned about it. That's why a memo went out. and it was a prominent problem. And shortly after the memo went out, the Jets accused the Patriots of still doing it, and the Patriots got caught. And they paid for it. And actually, how they paid for it wasn't in the record-breaking fines

that were issued by the league, and those were huge fines. But how they really paid for it was a reputation was marred. It got a mark on it. And so it made it easier a few months, not months, but later down the road when they're getting ready to, you know, play the Giants in the Super Bowl, people, someone's accusing them now of, oh, way back in the first Super Bowl against the Rams, they did the same thing. They taped the Rams walk through. Well, that turned out to be a fabricated, made-up story. Completely untrue. Unlike the SpyGate Jets game, where it actually happened. The Rams Super Bowl story never happened. It was made up. That story is actually way more damaging to the Patriots than the Jets story.

And it's the one that people talk about more today than they do the Jets. It was believable to people because they did it in the Jets game, but it proved to be false. And that was proven because the Boston Herald that wrote that allegation later admitted that they had it wrong, it didn't happen, and they apologized. Most people in America never saw that apology. So by the time you get to deflategate, I think if it wasn't for Spygate, Deflate Gate never would have amounted to what it became,

which was a national story about air pressure and footballs, that the league was unable to prove. Interestingly, Colin, we know now that the standard of proof for proving cheating changed from spygate in 07 to deflakeet in 14. In other words, the league changed its standard of evidence. And so instead of having to prove, you know, with clear and convincing evidence that this happened, that was the spy gate standard, it became a preponderance of the evidence in deflakeet, meaning just more likely than not.

51% more likely than 49% was enough. And I think they didn't even meet that burden here because they, never produced a smoking gun that any of this had happened. But nonetheless, Brady was held to a higher standard because of Spigate. And, you know, I think that you've got to put it all in context. If they were not a great team that just simply won much more often than everybody thought they could or should, I think the deflakeate thing just isn't a big deal. But it becomes a momentous deal because of two things. They had been caught once before, and they just kept on winning. Yeah, Jeff Benedict, author of The Dynasty, he confronts all of these deep dive on all of them.

Don't want to give away too much, because as you're telling from our interview, there's just copious details here. And I lived in Connecticut for 11 years, and I watched preseason games and had many friends that were season ticket holders. And it's a, it really is, it's the story of Microsoft. It's the story of Starbucks. It's the story of a great corporation. It almost feels some, it's a relationship book. It's a football book. It's a business book.

The Drew Bledsoe story is nuts. Before we go, I ask this, Jeff, of many guests on the show. When you make a big decision in your life, I've always told my kids, get a yellow pad, write down the pros and cons, look at the words, consume, him, sleep on him. Do you believe an epiphany, a moment? Because Tom Brady did sound like decided before he left, he was going to leave. And I think in most cases, people get a divorce. They get a divorce a year and a half before they get a divorce. As you look back, the book is finished. A breaking point, an epiphany, a drive to work. When I watched that documentary,

I thought, boy, if he allowed Giselle to say he wants to be a breaking point. He wants to. wants to feel respected. He allowed that edit in the documentary, and to me, that was the beginning of the end. Do you believe that's oversimplification, or was there a moment as you're researching this and writing this book you feel like, yeah, there's a tipping point here, and here's where it's at? You know, Colin, that's a really difficult question for me to answer, only because I saw so, there's so many points along the way where, you know, you know, that's a really difficult question for me to answer, only because, you know, you see the building.

I mean, I think that Alex Guerrero is a really important figure in this whole episode, Odyssey, because he is so critical to Tom Brady's success in the latter half of the dynasty. Those last three Super Bowls, in my opinion, you know, look, Tom Brady's effort in the Seahawks game and in the Falcons game are just, they're over the top. And, you know, Tom is adamant. And I think he's right that Alex Guerrero is so critical to him performing the way he performs and at his age. And I think he was always undervalued. You know, certainly with Coach Belichick, it became a huge pain in his neck.

You have all these other players that see what's happening with Tom who want to participate in that as well. So you have guys like Kronkowski and Edelman and the best players on the team gravitating towards Guerrero. because they want his help as well. It's when he gets basically kicked off the sideline and suspended from traveling with the team, it's like, you know, he is part of Tom. So in a way, it's like doing that to Tom. It diminishes and makes more difficult for Tom to do his job.

And so I think the Guerrero piece is really a big part of this story. So it's not one moment with Guerrero. it's a series of moments over a period of years that ultimately came to a head. He's been so kind to give us 40 minutes on our Saturday podcast. Strongly encourage you purchase the dynasty, Jeff Benedict, who puts such great effort into this. It's such prideful work and such smart work. I feel lucky that we have people like you out there deep diving on some of these books and these topics on gaining the trust of people. You're a real pro at what you do, Jeff. And I just appreciate you giving our audience and me 40 minutes today. And I continued success.

Have you chosen your next topic? I'm trying to stay focused on what I have to do right now. Fair enough. Well, I look forward to it, whatever it is. Well, thank you. And it's been a privilege to be on with you. Thank you so much, Jeff. Thank you. And we hope you enjoyed our Saturday podcast. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get. Get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, what's good, y'all?

You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to.

Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcast. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

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