The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - A Big Time in British Boxing

Episode Date: September 30, 2022

Joining Mannix this week is Sergio Mora, former junior middleweight champion and DAZN broadcaster. Mannix and Mora dive into Joe Joyce's huge win over Joseph Parker, the latest with Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua, next steps for Demetrius Andrade, a Floyd Mayweather-Jake Paul showdown and more; later, junior middleweight contender Sebastian Fundora on making weight, his recent surge, the backstory on his fighting family and more. #Volume #Herd #ColinCowherdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me.

Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled of conversations with athletes,

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Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Manick. All right, so how many rounds did you hit the bag today? Ten. I've been hitting 10 rounds a day. Every day for about almost going on the month. Is this officially a comeback?

I'm ready. I'll be honest with you, man. For 22 years that I was a professional, I've never stayed in shape when I was off camp, you know, and right now that I'm an older person, I train every day and I like it. So you're announcing right now your comeback to boxing? Absolutely not. That, I mean, sounds like it. Unless, unless you know who.

Well, there are a couple of you know who's. There's Jake Paul, which most people that listen to this podcast know. And there's Oscar Delahoya, who you thought you were going to fight after winning the title against Forest and then life got in the way. I'll go from Jake Pard de la Jolla, easy money. The Golden Boy, it's the golden ticket. I think it's the reverse, but whatever. Our next partner has a product that I use literally every day. I'm not just saying that I started taking AG1

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supportive vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first purchase. All you have to do is visit athletic greens.com slash manix. Again, that's athletic greens.com slash manix to take ownership of your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance. Sergio Amora is here, former junior middleweight champion, DeZone broadcaster. I want to start this podcast, Sergio, with what we talked about last weekend, the Joe Joyce, Joseph Parker fight. Last weekend, Joyce, the 2016 Olympic silver medalist. He picked up his most impressive win as a pro knocking out Joe Parker in the 11th round to win an interim version of one of the heavyweight titles.

Joyce is now 15 and 0 with 14 wins coming by way of knockout. Sergio, how impressed were you with Joe Joyce's? performance. Very impressed. Very impressed. I mean, he knocked out a former champion that only Anthony Joshua wasn't able to knock him out. Dillian White wasn't able to knock him out. I mean, it's really impressive for him to go straight forward and hunt him down because Parker was in the fight. He was boxing really nicely. And I knew that it wasn't going to go the distance. I mean, he just didn't have enough power and respect and size. But, I mean, he fought a valiant fight. A valiant fight, Parker did.

But it just goes to show you what kind of, you know, juggernaut you're dealing with. I mean, he's a beast. He cuts off the ring. He's imposing. He looks slow and hitable. But when you fall off balance, he catches you with that power. Guys like that, you don't want to miss against, let alone, you know, throw more than two punches.

It's hard to beat a big George Foreman, you know, type like that. You got to outbox them and stick and move. And, oh, man, it takes a lot. It's the pressure. that's the hardest thing to deal with. I mean, he, he, and this was the biggest problem I thought Parker had.

Like Parker would throw some good combinations. He would land and then he'd spin out believing he would get three or four seconds to recover. But the second he kind of turned to face Joyce, he was right there in his face. And Parker eventually succumbed to all that. I was really impressed with Joyce. When Joyce came out of the Olympics in 2016, I was like, all right, well, this guy's okay.

He's got some pop. but he's lumbering, you know, his jab isn't particularly sharp. I thought he had a ceiling to him. Now, you can certainly make the argument that Joyce is the second best heavyweight in all of boxing because Parker... I wouldn't go that for me. Well, I mean, look, you can make the argument, I'm saying. I don't know that he is either.

I think, you know, Ussick, certainly with three versions of the title, Joshua's still there, a more accomplished heavyweight while they're still there. But he's now up there among the better fighters because, as you said, he did what Andy Ruiz couldn't do when Anthony Joshua couldn't do what Dillian White couldn't do He knocked out Joe Joyce Justs or just or I'm not as impressed by

But he knocked this guy out And look you met you said that Parker Was boxing well early And maybe the first round or second round he was You get that third round And look I bet on Parker Like I thought Parker was going to win He was my pick for the upset

But by the third round I'm like Oh shit This is this is a problem He's not going to be able to keep this guy off of them Just the relentless pressure of Joyce is just the and I don't know if you remember We did the this podcast and you asked me what I thought and I said I think a late round stoppage I don't think it crosses the finish line It's gonna be a late round stoppage and and sure enough man that's exactly what it was but once again

We got to give Parker some credit for him to be in with the heavyweight champions that he was in with and not be stopped And then finally he does really well I mean he was we won some rounds there were hard fought rounds that he won there aren't many but he made it an entertaining fight and he was there to win so you got to just admire what the juggernaut did and knocking out someone like that that's tricky to pin down

and he didn't give up until he finally did it and it came late. How would you describe Joyce's power because I have a hard time I know we mentioned Foreman as the comp but like that jab it doesn't look especially powerful It doesn't look as sharp as Joshua's jab sometimes look like,

but he just paws out there with it and connects with it and aims it right at your skull. And then the right hands, like, they're wide and he loads up on them a lot. And even when he connects, I'm not sitting there going like, it's not wilder-esque with that power. Like, how would you describe kind of his punching power? Well, I like the word you use in describing him, lumbering,

because he is lumbering. I mean, he's the definition of lumbering. But I would describe, describe him of a mix of a George Foreman and like a, like a Riddick Bo without the speed, you know, one of those mixed because Bo had some hands on him. And it looks like it's not going to hurt you because his power is that heavy and it's that slow. He reminds, he has like, he's like a Fredo Angulo.

Enkulo was one of the slowest guys I've ever fought. But he grazed you and he hurt you. He had heavy hands. that's the kind of power that I think Joyce hands kind of you know that Lennox Lewis heavy-handed power if he catches you at the end he turns your lights out but he's even bigger than Lennox Lewis so just serious power man you can't teach that no he certainly got it um a lot of fights I'd like to see Joe Joyce in next Joyce Deonté Wilder oh man I'd love to see that Joyce Tyson Fury Joyce Anthony Joshua how but you've seen what Joyce is now, 37 years old.

How hard do you think it's going to be for him to get a big fight? It's going to be hard. It's going to be really hard. It's going to be hard. They're going to wait him out. He's 37, like you said. But don't you think, like, just, you know, we keep mentioning Foreman, right? Like, Foreman was fighting in his 40s and still pretty effective as a heavyweight.

I think Joyce can be one of those guys that when he hits the age of 40, if he wants to, he can still be a really good heavyweight. I agree with you. That's a great point, and it's because he's lumbering. He's not quick. He doesn't rely on a half. And he has a chin. Well, if you're going to have a longevity in the sport, you need chin. But he's very strong.

He doesn't rely on fast twitch muscles, which that benefits an older fighter. The thing that really makes fighters retire after the 35 years old, they don't have the fast twitch. They don't have the legs anymore. They don't have the stamina. They don't have the endurance. They can't take the punch anymore. All that starts falling apart as a heavyweight when you're naturally not a fast-twitch fighter. You're not very, you don't rely on speed.

You just rely on that heavy-handed, slow-thumping power that doesn't need to connect. Guys like that can last long in their career because it only takes one punch. So I can see Joyce fighting into his 40s, early 40s, absolutely. Yeah, but for the short term, we know Ussick is not going to face him, at least we don't think so. I don't see Deonté Wilde they're facing him anytime soon. He's got a path with Heleneas and then probably Andy Ruiz.

Joshua's got his own path which we're going to get into in a couple of minutes. Here's a name for you. What about Jarrell Miller for Joe Joyce? Big baby? Jarell Miller, to remind people

where Jemarell Miller is, you know, back in 2019, he lost out on the Anthony Joshua fight because he tested positive for multiple banned substances. It happened again about a year. later, just over a year later, when he was scheduled to fight on a top rank card.

He has come back recently. He's won two very low-level fights in a row. He had a show or a fight scheduled for this weekend in Kazakhstan. It was canceled because of reasons unrelated to Jarrell Miller. But I look at Jarrell Miller as being an interesting opponent for Joe Joyce because you've got to get past all the bullshit, which is legitimate, all the drug test and all that stuff. But he's still undefeated. He's got a big mouth.

He's known to the British public because he spent weeks and weeks promoting the AJ fight. I kind of like that fight for Joe Joyce if he wants to make it. I like it too. And I don't even think of Big Baby Miller because you said it. He has a big mouth. He's a self-promoter. He gets under your skin. And Joyce is not going to promote a fight with his mouth.

You know, he might backflip and get your attention. But he's not going to go out there and start. cussing opponents out and, you know, act like that. So I like that. I actually like that fight. I mean, if Dillion White's not around, I like Baby Miller better because of that, oh, he hasn't been beaten. That always looks great on the fighter's resume. If you can take away that donut, that zero, it looks good on yours. It's a feather on your cap. And, and when it comes to Dillion White, I like that fight because they're both British. I mean, Dillion White's always in a great fight. He's only been, you know, beat by the guys in the top.

I think it'll be a fantastic style matchup with a guy that's been in there with every style you could think of and powers not enough to intimidate him. I think Dillion White would have a lot of problems with Joe Joyce. Like Dillian has that big left hook, but you saw what happened with Tyson Fury.

Joyce isn't as talented as Fury, but he's Fury size and we know he can take a punch. He's going to keep coming. And I think he eventually gets to Dillion White. I like the Dorell Miller fight. If you believe Jurel Miller deserves another chance, how do you feel on that?

As a former fighter, do you believe Jarrell Miller after testing positive multiple times for serious ban subs? He's not testing positive for what could have been tainted meat. He's testing positive for stuff that gets injected into your body. How do you feel about Jarrell Miller getting another chance at a big fight? He's human, man. Listen, we all hate cheaters, but he's already got his punishment. I mean, I think he's already lost. He has lost out on millions and a potential...

Tens of millions, really. potential heavyweight championship if he would have won. And what? He's in his mid-30s, 34? I think he's younger than that, maybe. We can check, but I think he's younger than that. I think he's in his 30s from what I remember. Yeah, but younger.

But either way, I think... Well, age matters. That's why I'm saying. But yes, I believe he does need another chance because... He's 34. You're right. Just turned 34 this past summer. There you go.

So he needs a big fight. You know, he's getting to that age. but he does have that undefeated record and he is a bad boy, he is a South promoter and he can fight. He's a big man with quick hands. Yeah, I'll give him one of the chance. And look, man, I'm a fighter.

I would hate to have thought that I went in there with someone that cheated and used PEDs. I hate the fact when fighters get tested and they get PEDs in their system before the fight and everything goes to shit or when they deny it. No one's ever

going to admit, yeah, you know, I tried. I tried. I tried to cheat, but they caught me. No one's ever going to say that. If anyone could, if anyone should, it's Jurel Miller. I mean, the stuff he was caught with. He got caught with like five different substances, so no.

There was no backing out of it. There's no tainted meat excuse there. But back to what I'm saying, man, every person deserves another chance. We're all sinners, man, we're all, we're all freaking sinners. And especially in boxing the way we grow up, you know, there's nothing good around us. And that's our outlet. That's our getaway. And you could tell that it was just a bad decision.

He lost out on millions. he's on a little comeback against, you know, whatever fighters. I think it's a good fight. I like that fight. I didn't even think of Big Baby Miller. I was thinking just British. I was thinking Bedillion White or a former Tyson Fury opponent like, you know, Wollick or something. No, you want.

I'm sorry. Yeah, Otto Waleen is fine, but Jarrell Miller, I think, would certainly sell better. And you get a chance to be the guy that takes the O off his resume, as you said. And I think it's good. I think if Jarrell Miller can get one more win on his resume, then maybe early next year you could do Jarrell Miller against Joe Joyce and it would give him another name for that resume and and if you're you're playing matchmaker for Joyce and trying to be you know calculating Miller's only he's been pretty much inactive you know in four years what how many

times he fought since 2018 I believe was his last fight uh his last big fight before the Joshua ban so there you go one once a year maybe that he's fought against you know well no he had he had multiple years two o it's a two years off he came back I believe early this year to win those two fights, and now he's sort of on that comeback trail. On that subject of Miller, like, I do think he's paid a significant price. I would obviously never, ever advise anyone to get in the ring with him

unless you're doing the most stringent drug testing in the history of boxing drug testing. But look, Jean-Pascale is out there, and he's one-win away from getting a chance to fight for the light-heavyweight title. Like, he tested positive, what was it, a couple of years ago, for three different band substances, real band subs as well. So if John Pascal is getting another bite at the apple,

Jarrell Miller probably should as well. I agree. And that's why, you know, I'm not being extra hard on them. You can't just, you can't just, you know, say he's done. Something he's been doing since he was a kid just because he had one mistake. Like I said, we're all human. I had a few mistakes. That's not, you know.

We're all human, man. I'm not here to back him up. I know you're not. But like the fact that he got busted again a year after the aging stuff again, I think he was going to fight Jerry Forrest in that fight, that he got busted again is wild. All right. Look, like I said, I'm giving you my opinion. I'm not saying the commission should do it, whatever. I'm giving you my opinion because I feel sorry for him as a fighter because I know that he's invested so much time and effort to stay undefeated, to be relevant, to get the title shot, to find to start making some real serious money.

And like a fucking idiot, you go and cheat. But then again, you start to think, how many years has you been cheating for? How long has it been doing it? Then it taints the entire resume. It takes the name. Oh, 100%. You know, just like Lance Armstrong.

You can't even talk about that name without just getting disgusted by steroids, you know? You'll never look at Lance Armstrong's accomplishments the same again. And that's what happens whenever you get caught. There's no going backwards. You're always known as a cheater. All right. So let's stay in the heavyweight division.

Tyson Fury, Anthony Joshua was officially called off by Tyson Fury this week. then it was back on, according to Tyson Fury. Now, I honestly don't know where it stands. Here's Eddie Hearn on Thursday discussing the state of Fury and Joshua. A lot of what Tyson Fury says is not true. So just to give you the truth, when we agreed terms, we waited, say, eight or nine days for a contract to come through, which is okay.

It's a big fight. The contract was all over the place. And all of last week, we spoke to Queens, every day to try and get it in the right place. This Monday, just gone, we sent them a final version of the contract. And Tyson Fury came out and said, fights off. I'm not fighting Anthony Joshua. Okay, so kind of like semi-down tools.

Yesterday, so Tuesday, George Warren came on and said, look, let me try and speak to him. Let's keep working away. We're like, okay. And then yesterday afternoon, George Warren said, here's our comments on your final version, which again is fine this happens I mean this fight we're here for the Conor Ben Eubank fight I would say this fight

from the first draft of the contract took two and a half months this time so anyway we haven't had the contract for 14 days by the way that's not true either but again last night at midnight I spoke to George Warren and he said

look let me speak to Tyson Fury see if I can try and get him back in a fight didn't hear anything other than a post on Instagram today to say sign a contract today, otherwise it's off again. So we've got the comments from Queensbury on a contract. We're going to go back on that today. 100% not getting signed today, as I told you.

No one's asking us or putting pressure on us to sign the contract on these given days other than Tyson Fury's Instagram account. So let me ask you this, Sergio. Is it important for the two sides here to make Fury jobs? Joshua right now. Yes. Emphatic 100%. Yes.

It has to happen, man. Because politics always gets in the way of a fight. Injuries get in the way of a fight. Promoters, money, networks, managers. So many hurdles, you have to jump just to get a mega fight to happen. And nowadays, it seems like it's only going to happen when it's past their prime, a la Mayweather Pachiao, where it's, happens yes it would broke records yes people loved it if they bought it but then after the fight it was

like oh man both these guys are too old it's not happening in their prime that's exactly where spence and crawford are going they're headed in that direction as well i mean the biggest fights that we need we don't get we didn't get a j we didn't get a j versus um fury this is another big fight that almost got done so many incredible fights that can happen and that's just not happening so Yes, I say get it done. I don't care. You know, whatever it takes, get it done. And I think Fury was doing that.

I mean, as far as what he was promoting on social media, you know, 6040, he sent him a contract. He said he wants to get it done. But of course, we didn't get to see here at Joshua's side. It's just embarrassing, man. It's boxing for you. Well, here's why I disagree. Disagree. Why?

I disagree that it needs to be made right now. Oh. I disagree because I. I think this fight can get exponentially bigger and it can get exponentially bigger in a very short period of time. You make Fury versus AJ right now and it is the biggest fight in British boxing history.

You know, 80, 90,000 in a stadium somewhere, I guess Cardiff is the targeted site. You make tens of millions, maybe over $100 million in total revenue. It's a monster. but it's not quite as big as it could be a year from now. When Anthony Joshua hopefully gets his career back on track, when Fury hopefully wins a fight against Alexander Usick

and becomes undisputed champion at heavyweight. I know that there is risk there because Joshua, his career could continue to slide Fury, even though I think both of us would agree is the favorite against Usik. He could lose that fight. And then we're out a potential mega fight. But I just see a light at the end of this Fury Joshua Tunnel that has this fight being huge, the biggest fight in boxing history, if it gets made a year from now. All I heard was hopefully.

And you said it twice. Hopefully. Yeah, I don't want to rely on a mega fight on hopefully. It's yes or no. There's no maybes. There's no, sure. there's no hopefully manics you got to make that stuff happen make it happen while you can make it happen and it almost got close to happening according to fury he sent the contract it was 6040 according to

fury but we didn't get it man we did not get it now whatever happens next it's going to be hopefully you know where both of them win and we can get it back again like you said later next year i don't rely on that man i rely on facts i rely on look i'm going to have one more fight and i want to fight him. Now, you know what? I don't want that other fight. I want to fight him next. That's it. Let's make it happen. There's no, there's no hoping here. It's let's get it done. This is business. This is boxing business. There's two things. So I'm a boxer. I'm going to take care of my boxing and then I'm going to take care of my business. It was that close to getting done. I would think, but it's just bad, bad, bad, bad. I say make the fight happen next. I don't want to rely on hopefully.

Yeah, but you look at Tyson Fury right now and he's at the peak of his powers. He is the best heavyweight in the world by a significant amount, I would say. And he would go into that AJ fight peaking. Where is Anthony Joshua right now in your mind? You've watched the last two fights against Usik. He looked sharper in the rematch against Hussein, but he still lost. And then he went out and had that meltdown in the ring afterwards. We don't know what the status is of Robert Garcia as his trainer.

We don't know what the status is of Angel Fernandez as his trainer. Sergio, you've told me many times over the years that you need more than one fight to get used to a new trainer, that you need time to adjust to him. Like, I want to see Anthony Joshua fight, and I've said this before, the British, or like, not the British, he is British, Dave Allen, or somebody like that over in the UK in December, January, go on and fight Dillion White in April or May, and then you get to September, October, and that's when you fight Tyson Fury. I don't look at AJ right now as being anything more than like 75, 80% of what he could be

at this moment, whereas Fury is at as very very. very best. I like the comeback fight to get that confidence and that knockout. Just clobber somebody. Just kick the shit out of somebody. Absolutely. How long did Benz, he's done that? Yeah, it's been a while.

It's been a while. Pavetkin. No, after Poveckon. Poolevy knocked out. I mean, he kind of struggled. But he still knocked him out. Yeah, he did. I don't think he looked at full capacity there.

I think Pavecian was the last time we've seen him, you know, firing on all. cylinders but I like that plan and it has to do with a damaged ego and a damaged you know former champion you get them that confidence back every power puncher you know every power puncher from you know form into you know Tommy herons when they lost that first fight you know the first loss it was it was by knockout they had to get that feeling back again and then once they started knocking our guys again they won the title again they that's who exactly what this man needs right now he needs to make he needs to feel

still on top of the world. He needs to hear the words, you know, and the winner, Anthony Joshua, hands up in the air, the roar of the crowd. That's addicting, man,x. That's addicting. And once that winning feeling comes back, it's something you've felt all your life. And then you can go into another big fight. All you need to do is have a good, solid win.

Wait, so are you agreeing with me then? Yes, I am. You just did a 180 on this. I wouldn't go as far as to say David Allen. No, but you, so you would, if you were AJ, you would put off the Fury fight then. No. This is what we're talking about, though. I know that's what we're talking about.

Do Fury now. It's not happening now. It might. From what they're posting on social media. By the time people listen to this podcast on Friday, Fury might have changed his mind three times already. Like it keeps, the goalposts keep moving with Tyson Fury. All right. I say take the Fury fight.

If that fight doesn't happen, then yes, your plan works well, but not a David Allen. Someone would mourn the name recognition and someone that people can at least recognize. You want to see him kill Chisora out there? I don't think they like management buddies now? It doesn't AJ managed Derek Chazora, I think, 258 management? Well, I mean, it could be someone along those lines. I don't want to see that. I don't see that.

Along those lines. I didn't say Chesora, but along those lines. All right, we got to move on. Let's talk about Demetrius Andrade. Oh. Exactly. The now former middleweight champion is a man without a fight after Andrew elected withdraw from an interim title fight, interim 168 pound title fight, I should say, against

Zach Parker. The reason was financial. When Frank Warren, who promotes Zach Parker initially won the purse bid for Andrade Parker back in the spring, it was for $1.8 million. Andrade had to withdraw from that fight because of an injury. A new purse bid was ordered, which resulted in Warren winning for just $305,000, which is a significant cut for Demetrius. Andrew decided that was not enough money to go ahead with that fight. But now Andrade is 34 and faced with being out of the ring for more than a year. Sergio, where does Demetrius Andrade, our friend, go from here?

Well, I'll tell you where he goes, because I've been there before. Whenever you've been getting paid really, really well, and been the champion and been in the limelight, and then you have that hiccup, and he hasn't even lost, and that's a hiccup, but you can't get the big fights anymore. The phone stops ringing. You're not a sought-out commodity. You're not hot anymore.

You have to take a dangerous fight. you have to take a high risk, low reward type fight to get respect. And now the shoes on the other foot, Maddox, that's the reason people didn't want to fight Demetrius Andrade. He was too much of a high risk, low reward. Now Andrade's on the other side of that. That's what he needs to do. He needs to go beat a fighter like a, I would think,

like a Janubek Alim Kanuli, scary Kazakhstan, another South Paul. He'll get respect doing that. Someone that no one wants to face right now, someone along those lines, because Chartero's not going to fight him. Connell is certainly not going to fight him. He's not going to get a marquee name, but get a scary little, you know, unknown like that and wipe the floor with them or win convincingly. That's how you turn heads. So that's what Andrew needs to do if he wants to get back to those seven-figure paydays that he got accustomed to.

You know, he has to take a high-risk, low-reward type fight. I agree. I don't think that fight is Janubek. I think that fight is David Benavides. And there's been some... Wait a minute. Benevita's a champion. That's a champion, former champion?

He's not a champion, though. That's a name recognition. What are he talking about? He's not a champion. He's not a champion right now. No one's ever beat him. Who is the champion in 168? It's Canelo.

All four belts. Yes. Benavides has the secondary title for the WBC. There's been some industry chatter. Benevita's a champ. I don't care what you said. He's lost it twice,

once on the scales and once because of a recreational drug. This is a dumb part of the argument. Benevides is the ideal opponent for Andrade. La Bandera Roja. Okay, but Andrade needs to find a way to align himself with Al Hammond. He has to.

He has to go over to the PBC side. It's the only way for him to get a significant fight. Eddie Hearn tried for three years to make a big fight for Demetrius Andrade. Andrew had met a lot of money. It didn't work. Top rank, they would have done a deal for Andrade to fight Janibach,

but they have nobody else out there, and he's not going to fight, like Edgar Berlang is not going to fight him, that's for sure. Where the action is for Demetrius Andrade is with the PBC. And it's going to have to start with David Benavides. That's an incredibly dangerous fight for Andrade, who would be making his debut at 168 pounds. But if he beats Benavides, all of a sudden, he's in position to fight Caleb Plant, to fight Jamal Charlo, to maybe get in the mix, to fight Canelo if he's able to beat someone like Benavides. I think that's the only option right now, Sergio.

Like whatever money Al Heyman is offering Demetrius Anderate, if he's offering anything at all, he has to take it. He has to find a way to get in the ring with David Benavides. All roads, Mannix. All roads, when the doors are shut in your face, lead to El Hamon. You would know. I would know because they shut every single door. I mean, when I went to El Hamon,

and I made a lot of money towards the end of my career. So I think I love that idea. Demetrius Andrade should sign with Al Heyman. That man will get you paid like you're accustomed to. And he will put you in front of the big names. It might take one or two fights, but he'll put you in front of those champions. I love that idea. Well, I mean, he, Andrade passed on the chance to fight or to be part of the Showtime,

Al-Haman network, you know, about two years ago. If there's an off for him now, he's got to take it. Because, I mean, I mean, Sergio, at third you. 34 years old. Can you believe this? As talented as Andre is, and he's incredibly talented, we both agree on that. He has never fought a former world champion. In his entire career, he's never fought a world champion or a former world champion. He won his title at 154 as a vacant belt beating Vannis Moderozion, and he won his title at 160, as we know, against Walter Kautendakwa. Now, he's had some bad luck along the way. It was supposed to buy Billy Joe Saunders back in

2018, that didn't happen, but he will have one of the thinnest resumes of any two-time world champion or two-division world champion I've ever heard of at this point. Yeah, you know what? Now that you mentioned that I'm thinking about, wow, he did pick up, you know, vacant titles. Yeah. You know, that's a title holder. That's a two-division title holder. I never heard that expression before.

That's a two-division title holder because, you know my, the way I think of it, you need to beat a champion. to become a champion. If you pick up a vacant strap, that makes you a title holder. No shame there. You're still a title holder. You hold a belt. I never saw it that way because I think the world of Andrade, ever since, you know,

he made the Olympics represented U.S., you know, I think he's one of these avoided, you know, scary fighters that no one wants to face. Eddie Zlandi, Lara, you know, type, you know, talent like that. But yeah, yeah, he hasn't fought a champion. That's incredible. It blows my mind because he's that avoided. Yeah. I mean, he has avoided is the right word.

He has been avoided at 154. He was avoided at 160. To not be avoided at 168, he's got to step in the lion's den right away. His first fight's got to be against David Benavides. I think that's possible, too. I've heard some chatter about that maybe happening before the end of the year. I think Benavita's side wants it. Benevita doesn't duck any smoke.

He wants all the smoke as well. I was about to tell you that without saying the word smoke, and please don't ever use the word smoke again. Just doesn't sound cool coming out of your mouth. Does it sound cool? But yes, he wants. All the fire. He wants...

The hell is the difference. Yeah, well, he wants all the... He wants the hardest challenges. And I get it, man. And a guy like Benavitas, he doesn't turn down anybody. A guy like, hey, the plant will be calculated, be like, no, let him beat somebody.

Who else is that 168? Derell. Let Caleb Plant beat somebody first. How about that? It's Caleb Plant beat. Yeah, but Conello, but he has Canello on his resume. That's it.

That's like the Raleigh-Ramero argument. He's got... All you need. Canela on his resume, he got knocked out. And now look at Roley Romero. He has a name. He has a recognition. And no fights.

You see him around fights. People want to take pictures of him. He carries himself with that bad boy swag. Doesn't matter. People know him by now. And people... That's what matters. Doesn't winning matter?

Of course, winning matters, but also getting big fights because you're known. You have name recognition. You're not a nobody anymore. So you think about... You're known for getting knocked out. It doesn't matter. People know the name Roli and Kayla plant because of who they fought. That's that. That's that. So now they can, they can, they have a little, uh, a weight on their name.

Then let them cash out on that. This is the state of boxing in a nutshell. You are known and you are considered a success because you got knocked out by a high level opponent. That, that is absurd in every possible way. That's what happens, man. I mean, just because you kill Jesse James doesn't make you Jesse James. Thank you. Yes. I remember, I saw the movie. Yes. I got it. I don't want to make this about Roli Romero, though, but like the problem with what you're talking about with Rola Ramiro and to a lesser degree, Caleb Plant, is like they think who they got in the ring with and lost to

entitles them to something big. Ralea Ramiro could have gotten a fight by now. Chances are, though, he's not going to fight the rest of this year and may not fight till the middle of next year because he thinks he's worthy of Errol Spence, or he thinks he's worthy of Ryan Garcia, somebody like that. That's ridiculous. Of course it is.

But you put him in with like, you know, Aral Spence wants him to fight Frank Martin, his guy, the 135-pounder. Roller-Romerer is not going to do that because Frank Martin probably beats him. That and Romero already has recognition where he can bring that name value and get a bigger fight. Then he's the Derek Chesora of, no, but Derek Chasora at these fights. Derrick-Jasura fights. He's war. I don't want to say about Dirk-Sor.

He's not like that. No, no, Romero's like a Ricardo. He's like a Miorga. He talks to talk and he has a big punch and people love that. Majorga, at least, was fighting guys too. though. Why he became a champion? Absolutely.

Yeah, that's a little bit different there. All right. Let's talk about Floyd Mayweather. The Floyd Mayweather exhibition tour continued last week with Mayweather knocking out. Makiru Asakara, a Japanese MMA star who is well known on that side of the world. Up next for Floyd is a November exhibition against Dejee, the younger brother of influencer KSI. But then, Sergio, things could get interesting. Jake Paul has called for a fight against Mayweather.

asked about fighting Jake Paul, Mayweather said this. He said, I'm only doing real fights. And of course, I can't get up high and weight, but I'll fight him in a real fight at the weight that I'm at. But as a right now, for what he's doing, it's good for what he's doing. But once he fights a real actual, a real fighter, it's going to be bad. So last of this, Sergio, do you like a fight between Floyd Mayweather and Jake Paul? Of course I do.

And I'm going to explain why. Because Floyd Mayer, like you said, on the victory tour, the celebrity tour, the non-boxing tour, and this guy, this man, this legend, this one of the greats of our generation, Money Mayweather deserves it nowadays. He spent his entire life, his entire career dedicated to become as great as he was, 50 and no, you know, numerous world champions, made all the money in the world. Now it's time for him to just rob the bank, the heist, you know, go on this little tour, kick the hell out of MMA fighters, kick the hell out of, you know, Connor McGregors and break pay-per-view records, kick box.

He's, whatever. You can fight whoever he wants. And now, if he wants to fight another YouTube celebrity, he already beat Logan Paul. Yeah, whoop the hell out of his brother. It would be a great thing. I think he'll do well. Okay. You have to differentiate between the collection of guys like Deji and...

Who? Do I just mention the YouTuber he's going to fight next? the two Japanese fighters he fought in the last year. They're in one category. Jake Paul's in another. Really? Jake, he's better than those guys, is what I'm saying. And that makes him more dangerous to Floyd Mayweather.

Sergio, you watched Floyd against Logan Paul. It was ugly, but, you know, Logan Paul was using his size to kind of push Mayweather around a little bit during that fight. I don't know who won it. I wasn't scoring it. I was cringing during most of it. But he went the full, what, eight-round distance against Floyd Mayweather. And Jake Paul is a better boxer than Logan Paul.

Jake Paul actually has real knockout power. Now, I'm skeptical that fight would ever happen because Jake Paul is walking around at 185, 190 pounds. Floyd, what is he, like, around 160 at this point? Maybe a little lower, 154. I don't see Jake Paul getting down that low and weight. for a fight like that. I don't see Floyd going up that further, but

unless the money is astronomically high, why would you get into the ring with someone who is a developing boxer who has real power? Why would you do it, Sergio? Like, if you can make low seven figures to fight these absolute walkovers, like the guy fought in his last fight and the guy

is going to fight in his next fight, why would you risk it? Why would you risk having your entire legacy forgotten, which it would be, and you know it, it would be forgotten if you get starched from one punch from Jake Paul. Full disclosure, Mannix. Does Jake Paul sponsor your show? He does not. Why are you so infatuated with Jake Paul?

Why are we talking about Jake Paul? Because Floyd Mayweather said he would fight him. That's why we're talking about. Why are you praising his power like he's Rocky Marciano or somebody? He's been knocking out. He's a strong kid, but I don't think he has power. knocking out non-boxers. You know how many non-boxers I'd knocked out in the hood?

I mean, that's just basically what he's doing. He's knocking out guys because he's a strong athletic kid. Him and his brother are strong athletic, you know, former football players, wrestlers. These guys are strong. You know, yeah, anyone could punch hard with you don't know how to duck. Floyd Mayweather is a defensive genius. Most boxers know how to defend themselves, roll from a shot. These guys, what makes them good is that they're strong.

what's going to make them suck when they fight a real pro fighters that they can't take a punch. That's the main thing. Once they get hit, they're going to turn their back and quiver, or they're going to go down. They're not going to know how to react. That's where the difference is going to be, Maddox. That's where the difference is going to be. Not whether they could punch out, like you're so in love with the power. It's whether they could take a damn punch.

It's not going to take a big punch. That's why Floyd Mayweather is so comfortable. 160 pounds against 190 pounds, if he hit some dead in the chin, it's not going to matter. They don't know how to take a punch. These guys do not know how to take a punch. Okay, so why did Logan Paul go the distance then? Because he had 40 pounds on him.

He had 40 pounds on Floyd Mayer with her. So size obviously is going to matter when it comes to certain... Not only that, he had height. He had everything on him. Jake will have some height on him. Jake will probably have some weight on him. He'll be hydrated pretty high up. Okay.

I'm not saying Jake won't go some rounds. I mean, Jake will go some rounds. Look, Floyd was never a knockout puncher at his best days. Like, he wasn't. Take it back. His best days were probably before Delaware. he was really good as a knockout puncher it that way. But since he got to 147 and above,

he was not a knockout puncher. He's not going to knock out Jake Paul. He's not going to happen. And I'd be concerned that he just gets caught. That at 45 years old, his reflexes aren't quite what they used to be, and he just gets caught with a big punch, which all of a sudden makes that,

like, the first line is Wikipedia page. Like it becomes, you know, a part of his narrative. He doesn't need that. He accomplished way too much in the sport of boxing to put himself in. that position. The bottom line for me, Sergio, is I would, if I was advising Floyd and he's got smart people around him, I would say, don't go anywhere near Jake Paul. It makes no sense for you to do that. You're insane. He's laughing all the way to the bank, and that's the reason he comes out

with that, with that mask, that robbers mask, you know, because it's a heist. Every time he goes into one of these, these, you know, non-boxing fights, it's a he he leaves all the way laughing all the way to the bank. And this is another case of that. So yeah, I'm all for Money, Mayweather, whooping the hell out of another Paul brother. I'll give it to Floyd. A great businessman in his active days in a great businessman in retirement. Like I watched the replay of that fight against Asakura. The guy had no chance.

And look, Dejie is going to get clobbered in that fight in the Middle East. Like just going to get beat up. And Floyd is going to cash a seven-figure paycheck to go and do it. Like, thanks for coming. Way to work up a sweat. Way to knock some nobody out. And here's well over a million dollars. He's not a businessman.

He's a business man. So let him handle his business. Damn. Who are you trying to sound like there? That's a JZ line. You wouldn't know. You don't sound like JZ delivering it, though. Well, it's out of context.

All right. Let's talk about Ryan Garcia and Tank Davis. While we wait for Ryan versus Tank in the ring, the two of them may not be all that willing to wait for a fight outside of the ring. Garcia was on social media this week. detailing a near altercation he had with Tank at a Los Angeles Nightclub. Sergio, negotiations, I'm told, are still ongoing for Garcia versus Tank either in December or January of next year.

I'll put the question you this way. Who needs that fight to happen more? Ryan Garcia or Tank Davis? They both do. Equally. I hate the fact that I'm not choosing a side and, you know, I don't like me when I write the border like that. But they both do.

Tank is damn near 28 years old And he hasn't faced a legitimate, scary Champion He's faced Gamboa A guy that was past his prime Santa Cruz Someone that was much smaller He has not face anyone

That's on his level And when he did an Issa Cruz Which was not a championship type fight You know he wasn't a champion He gave him hell He gave him hell So that's Tank Davis And Ryan Garcia on the other hand

They're moving them really nice but he's only what 24 years old you know he's four years younger than tanks so he's fine but you know a lot of people do think that that he that he just calls out guys because they know that they're not gonna then they're not going to take the fight so i would love for one of these champions that ryan garcia calls out on social media and he has a lot of followers to finally say you know what all right kid i'm saying you the contract because then you know that's when you know he's if he's for real i know ryan garcia's for real i've seen it from my own eyes when you're when he got off the campus with Lou Campbell.

I said it. We're going to see what this kid's made of because I was in doubt. I didn't know what he had. You don't know how you're going to react when you get clip like that for the first time, dropped and hurt by a real fighter, a guy like Lou Campbell. He got up and closed the show like a champ. He had that look in his eye, the eye of the tiger. So I believe in Ryan Garcia.

So who needs this fight? They both do. And it's aside from Joshua Fury or Conella, whoever, or else, it's the biggest fight in the boxing. It's, yeah, it's up there. Bigger than Crawford Spence, at least commercially, for sure, yeah. I understand why you say Ryan Garcia needs that fight, but come on. Javanta Davis needs it a lot more.

Javentza is going to be 28 years old in November, and to your point, is not fought anyone, anyone really consider high level at this point. His biggest win came back when he was at 130 pounds against Jose Benavides. Like, that's, come on, let's be real with this. If Gervante Davis fights, I don't even know who he would fight. We have this conversation all the time. I don't know who's there at 130 or 135 or even 140 in the BBC universe that makes any sense. Like could he drop back to 130 to fight Hector Luis Garcia for his title?

I guess that would be a credible fight for him, but he's not going to go back to 130. And Garcia doesn't have the same kind of credibility at 135. Look, even the most staunchest of Garcia, sorry, of tank supporters, guys like Ack and Barack, we work with on DeZone. I've said to me, like, if he doesn't take a real fight in his next fight,

you know, we're going to start to turn on him as well. Like, you know, even the biggest advocates for Tank are saying now he needs a big fight. About time.

We've been saying it for two years now. Well, you've been saying it for two years. I've been, maybe a year and a half a year for me. He's about a year, yeah.

I kind of, I kind of got to put up myself. But he needs it, man. Like he can't. Yes, he does. I'm with you. And he's got to be the one that,

goes to Al Heyman and goes to Leonard Alibi and the people that are responsible for charting the course of his career and say make the fight. Now, he has done that with Ryan Garcia. Like I said, I've talked to people during this week. Like, there are still talks going on for Garcia against Davis. I don't know how, I don't know if it gets done because it is a complicated fight to make.

And I never believe fights like that are going to happen. But they are talking about doing it. But if you're Garcia and if you're tank, specifically tank, you've got to make this fight happen. You've got to ram this fight through and get it to the finish line because you need Ryan Garcia more than Ryan Garcia needs you.

If Ryan Garcia doesn't get tank, he stays at 140, he starts to move his career forward at 140 pounds. There are fights there for him. He'd probably get a shot, Sergio, who had a vacant title or one of those, like ProGray versus the Pada is happening.

Hold on, progrey versus the Bata is happening, I think in November. Like Garcia would get an opportunity to fight the winner of that fight, I believe, or some other of those 140-pound titles that have broken off now that Josh Taylor's given a bunch of them up.

So I think Garcia has a path forward that is credible. I don't know what the path forward is for Tank if he's going to continue to avoid these types of big fights. Garcia is the most marketable fight as far as, you know, the higher numbers and pay-per-view and all that, but the fight that will be more interesting, in my opinion, at 140 is a fight between Tank and Tio Fimo Lopez. Could you imagine that fight, the build-up,

that can be into Barclays or anywhere in New York or in the East Coast. It'll do big. That's a pay-per-view fight as well. It'll be a different crowd. You have Ryan Garcia with all the 16-year-old girls and social media, you know, celebrities. And when it comes to Tank and Teal Female, that'll be the hardcore. That'll be East Coast. That'll be the Irving crowd.

That'll be boxing die-hards. That'll be a hell of a fight. Let me give you a different. That'll be a hell of a fight. It's a great fight. Don't get me wrong. Let me give you a different pathway I would like to see. tank tape. I would like to see him find a way to get the Ryan Garcia

fight done. If he gets that fight done, you know what I want to see him fight after that? Chaucor Stevenson. Shikor Stevenson moving up to 135 pounds. Why? Because Shakur Stevenson is one of these guys you don't want to fight. Oh God, here we go. So you avoid... I avoid him like the plague. Of course you would. Secur is that good. Okay, then... But if you're a top dog at 135, Shakur is a top dog at 135, why would you take that fight? And after Shakur, if you could find a way to win that fight, Devin Hay-Han. is going to be out there.

I would go chase Devin Haney and the Undisputed Championship at 135. There you go. That makes more sense. Devin Haney's been clipped. We know how he reacts. You know, we've seen them rocked by Linaris. Tank is a bigger punch of the Linares.

He's more explosive and he's a naturally bigger fighter. So, yeah, at this point, if Tank's not fighting Garcia, there's plenty of... How much of this? You're a fighter. How much this do you put on the fighter? Like, we're sitting here talking about what a great pathway it is to fight those three guys. You make a shitload of money. A ton of money.

You make a ton of money. You make a ton of money doing those fights. Those are pay-per-view big-time fights. You answered your own question. The money, that's why. The fact that this. Networks and promoters not want to work together. You asked me, man.

You're giving my opinion. Look, man, we grow up from nothing. I came from East L.A. He's a tank Davis from Baltimore. We had nothing. The gangs, the drugs. When you start making seven figures a fight, when you start making that kind of money,

when you go from insufficient funds to seven figures, and he's making a lot more than I ever did, come on, man. Whatever you're doing, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. it. And guess what? It's not broken. Mayweather promotions is moving them well. They're all getting some money off that pot. Why? It ain't

broke. Don't fix. Okay, but you then can't sit there and your promoters can't sit there and say Tank is should be on the pound for pound list. And that's why me and you never include them in that pound for pound list. That's what me and you That's what me and you give Ack and Barack so much shit because we know that they just don't call it like it is.

They're not calling a spade a spade a spade. I'm with you on that and I'm a big fan of tank. I love watching them fight. I order his paper views because I'm a fan, but I agree with you. Thin resume at this point, almost 28 years old and you don't have a solid, undefeated championship name on your resume since Jose Padraza? No, man, you deserve all the criticism. All right, a couple questions I want to take from Instagram before we go.

Marcos asks, are you starting to get worried about Errol Spence versus Terrence Crawford? Sergio, we have like credit good reporters. People I know and respect have, like, over the course of the last month, month and a half, have written, like, this fight is so close several times. I'll tell you what I have heard about this, that there's still a lot of optimism. It gets done for November 19th. There still are details in this fight contract that they're slogging through, but they still believe it's going to get done. But Sergio, six weeks, six weeks away. At some point, we're going to have to stop saying, well, it's okay.

You don't have to promote the fight. You don't need that much time to promote the fight. Well, I mean, what is the mark, right? Is it six weeks? Is it five weeks? Is it four weeks? When do we start to panic about this fight happening? I gave up on that fight.

I wouldn't give up on it. I gave up on that fight because you need eight weeks in camp. Eight weeks in camp for that fight. No, I think, but you know this as a fight. We're already in camp. They're already in camp. Yeah, okay. Spence and Cropper in camp.

Okay, the marketing machine needs a good five weeks, a good five weeks of solid pumping that. you know, commercials and, and billboards and all that. So yeah, you need a good five weeks to really make it a big event like that. But these guys, I mean, they're the best of the best, and they're not really talking about fighting each other. They don't talk about each other's names. They're not marketing it or well.

I mean, it's going to be another version of Mayweather Pakea, where the fight finally happened. It's going to do great, but something's going to be missing. One of them, something's going to be missing. The inactivity is going to kick in for one of them, an injury or something's going to pop up. It's not going to be the same. Or maybe one guy got older, you know, overnight. It's going to be one of those fights where it just happened a little bit too late, man, and it wasn't the same.

That the taste already went bitter in my mouth for that fight. Even if it does happen at the end of this year, it's kind of just like you know. No, you would. If it happens to the end of this year, you still get it. Not November. November 19th is still the target day. It's Christmas. time. December I'm thinking about Christmas, man.

But November 19th, you're not. You're not a big Thanksgiving guy, so relax. You're thinking about you'd, you'd be interested, you'd want to see that fight in mid-November. I would too. I still believe, I'm just putting it out there. I still believe that fight will happen in November 19th. But you've done this, Sergio. I agree with the marketing part. I think, like, let's say this fight was going to land, is going to land on Showtime pay-per-view, which is most likely in this scenario. By not having it signed and sealed, you've blown like four weeks of college football advertising on CBS to promote this fight and get people interested in remember this fight. Now some some people might say it doesn't really matter until like

the week of the fight, two weeks for the week of the fight. I disagree. I think you want to get it on people's brains sooner rather than later. But I still think there's enough time for this fight to happen and be worth the weight that we put into it. Chances are it's not going to happen. I think chances are it is going to happen. Nope. Because these guys need to be on talk shows. They need to be commercials. Boxing is given up on mainstream media. It drives me crazy, but it has.

It really has. Not for mega fights like that. Sure it has. Not for mega fights like that. Of course it has. The last, were Cadello and Golofkin on, you know, talk shows or doing things like that? That wasn't mainstream.

Maybe for the first two fights. Not for this one. Yeah, but they already had name recognition. They already fought and people already knew that 24 rounds have been waiting. I'm telling you, one of my biggest, the one of the things that irritates me the most, about boxing promoting is that I think promoters have given up on mainstream media. I think that, you know, you saw what impact mainstream media had on Taylor Serrano.

Like, Taylor Serrano was on Good Morning America. Like, oh, the week of the fight, they're on frigging Good Morning America. They're doing all this mainstream media. New York Times, Washington Post, hell, I'll give myself a pop. Sports Illustrated did a big spread on the two women. Like, that matters to get casual fans interested. Yes, it matters. Why do you think I'm here talking to you?

I spent 16 weeks on national television on NBC prime time. That's correct. So yes, that matters. Main Street matters because mom and pops need to want to see you instead of just the boxing officinados. That's when you become a crossover star when people that don't watch boxing are watching boxing events. And fights like that will capture the imagination of non-boxers. And if it's not happening, then it's just another one that's blown in the wind.

It's too bad. I think they should do, you know, promoters should do more. I think actually Toprak does a pretty good job with mainstream media, at least trying to tap into it to a degree. But for the most part, it just seems like in boxing, we're satisfied with just going after the people in our bubble. And that's fine, to a certain degree, you want to appeal to the hardcore fans that have helped get you here,

but you're not going to grow the sport unless you're bringing casual fans in and making them real fans as well. Last question for you. I had a couple of questions on this. Alexander Vostick, do you see this? is planning a comeback, the former light heavyweight champion used to train under Teddy Atlas.

He lost kind of brutally to Archer Betterbev got beat up at the end of that fight. And he retired. And he retired. I was wondering why he retired. Well, I mean, I think that was a pretty good beating.

He took from Better Bayef. Yeah, but it was won. I know. And he was a champion already. Do you think that Vostick has a future in the Atlantic Way Division? Absolutely. That was a confusing retirement there.

It reminded me of a Dimitri Pyrog. And Pirog retired undefeated. It's a good name. Undefeated. that's exactly what it reminded me of. Just one beating at the top of the list. Both of you guys are champions to unify. You come up short, beating, okay, but it's your first, and then you retire.

That blew my mind. And I'm not accustomed to that because boxers get to that point, and that's when they start making real money to leave all that money on the table. When you made all that effort to become a champion and build your name, it just doesn't make sense. So, of course, I think Vosdick should come back and left off where we're, where you're start where he left off at. And Vostick was the guy who knocked out Adana Stevenson,

took his title off him back in 2018, and then lost that fight, two fights later to Archer Betteridge. 35 years old, so there's a bit of a shelf life on him, but he's a good enough boxer that I think you can get back to the mix if he takes two or three fights. I'm curious to see which promoter, if any, shows interest in him. You can certainly see Matchroom. I can see Matchroom.

You've got Joshua Boatze out there, with matchroom, you've got B-Bowl still in the stable. That makes a lot of sense for Vostick if he decides to come back. Your comeback will wait to hear about for a few weeks. It's going to happen. You know it's going to happen. Hey, listen, man, I've been in the gym. You're hitting the bag at, like, L.A. fitness.

I've been in the gym for seven weeks, and it's getting good to me, Mann, because I'm telling me right now. See, you're coming back. I better not get a call from one of these geeks in Celebrity Town and celebrity YouTubers, because I'll beat the hell out of any of these guys that calls my name out. You hear me, Jake Paul? When we come back, my conversation with Sebastian Fondura. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clivered Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need. to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here. unpack what went down and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Then you're finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, football season is underway. So now is the perfect time to download Fandul, America's number one sportsbook. Because right now, new customers get a no-swet first bet up to $1,000. That's free bets back if your first bet doesn't win.

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Make every moment more this season with Fandul, the official sportsbook partner of the NFL. All right, Sebastian Fondura is here, undefeated junior middleweight contender on October 8th. He will be back facing former title challenger Carlos Ocampo. in Southern California. That's a fight you can see on Showtime. And The Towering Inferno joins me on the show. First of all, one of the best nicknames in all of boxing, I think. Like, tell me about where the nickname came from.

My nickname came from a movie, but it came from the idea of my promoter, Samson Litchfewicz. What did you think when he branded you that? I don't really care for it. I was like, eh, whatever, it's kind of making fun of me. but, you know, later on in my career, I figured out it did fit well because, you know, the tiring because of the height and the furneau because of the way we fight.

You thought that was, like, making fun of you in a way? A little bit, a little bit. Samson likes to joke a lot, so, yeah, I took it as a, took it an offense. He does like to joke a lot, that's for sure. All right, scale of one to ten, one being incredibly easy, 10 being the hardest thing you have ever done. how difficult is it for you to make weight for every fight? One.

It's a one. That's incredible. I can just wait, it's not a problem. That's wild, man. You're 6'56 and you're making 154 at a level of one. That easy. That easy. It's fairly easy.

All I have to do is do a workout. I'm fine. I'll be solid on my weight. So like a week or so before your fight, how close are you to 154? probably walking out like one six right now four pounds off six pounds off and five maybe if you had to squeeze down to welterweight again could you do it of course of course but uh right now i want to champ i want to i want to take my chance and win about at 154 because that's how

i've been doing my career does i mean does it surprise you that it's that easy i mean for some athletes it's incredibly easy right like i work with sergio morea who tells me all the time, like, I can't keep weight on, I can't keep weight on, I've been retired for five years, I'm at 175 right now. Does it, I mean, is it surprised you at all how easy it is to get down to that 154? I think it's just the metabolism, you know. And then they're training on top of that, you know, we're always sweating. But our metabolism is probably very fast, so that's probably why.

So how much do you pay attention to your eating habits, you know, during a training camp? I eat healthy. I do eat healthy. But I mean, if I can, I'm going to sneak in a couple of cheeseburgers, you know, if I can, of course. But like, getting close to the day, to the five day, I'm eating more healthy and respecting my diet. I don't have a bad diet. But again, it's more stripped. So the Friday before a way in, like, how are you feeling before, are you eating the night before? Are you eating that morning? How are you, what are you doing before the way in? Of course, yeah. We'll eat dinner. We'll eat dinner the night before. But maybe cut that breakfast because the breakfast is so close to the way in. But other than that, we'll be eating the whole day until that way in. Anyone that's ever tried to lose weight in their life hates you right now listening to us. Yeah. Everybody's always asking me, how are you feeling? You're hungry, huh? You're hungry?

No, I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm smiling always. So it's, it's, I'm fine. I mean, you must look across at fighters during the wayans, you know, guys, they're smaller than you. And you can probably tell when they're dry, when they've been kind of starving themselves down. Definitely, definitely. You can tell boxers are hungry when he has that hoodie on, his head down or has the headphones on. And you, you or the sunglasses as well, you know, they don't want to be talked to. So I did ask you about welterweight. Like, what's the lowest way you think you could possibly get to without killing yourself?

I think welterweight, you know, I would never want to squeeze anything lower than that, you know. That's a, I feel like I, I, I, uh, I willterweight will be squeezing a little bit. And in my, in my theory, that, that's unhealthy, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Did you watch Paul Williams coming up, you know, another guy that was a really, really tall welter in 154? Um, fortunately, the only fight I seen against, uh, with him is when he fought on Martinez. I knew you're going to say that. Yeah.

I mean, who hasn't seen that one, you know. Go ahead and see that one. You got to go back and watch the Margarito one, Sebastian. That was the great Paul Williams, where Margarito was so scary, and Paul Williams went out there and just dominated him from start to finish. The Martinez one, I was at that one in Atlantic City. That didn't go so well for ball. Yeah, definitely not.

Football that night. So you're 24 years old now. When did your kind of first growth spurt really start? I think 13. I was like five, five, five, six. and then all of a sudden I grew up to like six, six feet. Were you an athlete at that point? I mean, I know your parents were boxers.

It runs in the family, but were you playing other sports around then? No, only boxing. I was only doing boxing this whole time. So it was cool. It was pretty cool. I was telling everybody else told them to teachers already. So, you know, when I would get in trouble,

they would probably look up to me and nag me from that way. But you must have had a basketball coach. come up to you and be like, let's go. Of course. Every school. Every school I went to middle school, high school. They always, always told me. But, you know, I never really cared for the sport.

So you never even wanted to try it, never even wanted to go in that direction? Nah, not really. I can't even dribble basketball. So what was it about boxing them? I mean, was it just that your father did it? Your mother did it. Obviously, your siblings are involved in it. Was it just that it's the family business?

Well, I saw that they're having fun with it. They're having fun with it. And I was like, well, I want to try. I want to do something fun as well. So that's how it's how it all started. You know, watching them do it, wanting to be like them. And you look up to them, you want to do it with them as well. So that's what came from it, you know.

And then I started enjoying myself. I started winning, you know. I like 13, 14, I already knew I wanted to do it as a career. And we just continue. need to do it and this is what came out of it. How good were your parents in the boxing ranks? Well, my mother only competed in amateur. She had a couple fights amateur. She won every fight, though. I'll tell you that. And then my father, he got to the professionals, but then he had my older brother. So that's, I think, derailed a little bit his career. But he was also

very talented from my remember. What your mother must love, the way. women's boxing is taking off now? Yeah, well, I think that's only because of my sister. So my sister's, the new generation of female fighters that are starting young as well. And not saying taking the sport seriously, but like they're really, they really want to push the female agenda boxing and let them fight on these bigger outfits and make more more names for themselves, you know? So did your parents want you to be in boxing?

Because a lot of boxers don't want their kids to be involved because they know how hard it is. Hard that road is to get to the top. No, I don't think they ever had a problem with that. You know, again, it's like a family affair. Everybody's doing it. Why not do it yourself? You know, why not try it out? They're more of like, try it out if you like it.

If you don't like it, you know, it's up to you. The, you mentioned like you said you were around 13 and 0 at that point or 13 years old, four and whatever when did you start to realize yeah i was 13 years old when i realized i want to become professional well at 13 oh hold on i had five i had five years into boxing already and uh we're doing good we're doing good and and we're getting better we're always improving without with every year and i was like well if this continues you know why not make some money out of it it's something i love already you know so it's like when you're a little kid and and say you love dinosaurs or whatever.

You want to be a paleontologist later on because it's like, hey, I love this and I'm going to get paid for it. Why not? Did something happen? Did you, I don't know, win a tournament that gave you that kind of confidence boost? Was it a string of wins? What was it that kind of triggered that feeling in you that you could do this, you know, full time?

Yeah, just like a string of wins probably, continuing to win, continues to get better. We're getting stronger. We're getting taller, all these things, all these nice little advantages that we're getting to as well. So it's just, I know, we had a lot of fans and the amateurs as well. So it's like, to bring it to professional, I was like, this will probably be not that it's easy, but like it's going to be a little bit more easier than the usual, you know. When you're fighting at a weight class where you're so much taller than almost all or all of your opponents,

like what's the key to being successful? Is it having superior footwork? Is it operating behind, you know, that 80 inch reach of yours? what's the key to being successful with that kind of height advantage? I think it depends on how you're going to fight. Depends on your fight. I do use my reach, but a lot of times I'm in the mix and inside. It's just how being confident in what you're doing, you know,

whether it's the inside or the outside. Is there a particularly difficult type of fighter or an opponent that, you know, when you have that kind of height, it's just difficult to fight against, whether it's a much smaller guy or a nimble, guy or what's what's the most difficult kind of opponent for you um i don't i don't really have a difficult opponent it's just how i'm going to fight that fight how i'm going to what's down when i used to win the fight for you what's what's happened for you the last few years because i watched you coming up the pro ranks i remember watching the draw that you had back in 2019 you were obviously

good but you know after watching that fight and some fights before like i don't know where this this guy is going to go. And then in the last year or so, you know, you've showcased incredible power. That win over Erickson Lubin was as impressive as they get, one of the best fights that we've seen in the year. Like, what's changed for you the last couple of years, if anything? We matured. We're still 20 years old when we fought Clark.

You know, I still think I won that fight, of course. But we were still young, you know, a lot of these kids that fight at 20 years old, they're still fighting people 0 in 3 or 1. one in three, barely having any fight, barely fighting a six-rounder. And we're already fighting a 10-rounder. So we're growing, we're maturing more. We're now we're 25. We're ready to fight for a title.

Everything's lining up now. You mentioned your sister is a pro boxer. She's fighting on this card as well. Do you like that? Does it give you something else to worry about? How do you feel about having your sister fight on your card? I'm excited. I'm excited.

You know, she works every camp with me. You know, she's working just as hard. So for her to have this platform to fight on it, it's something she deserves. How does it work there? Do you watch her fight beforehand? Do you have to focus on yours? How does that going to work for you? I could do both.

I could do both. Of course, I want to see it. I want to see her fight. It's like watching a good movie and then not seeing the ending. I have to see the ending. I can understand. I think it would be impossible to not watch at that point. You are the interim title holder at 154, the WBC Belt.

obviously Jermel Charlo has all the titles at 154. Do you, I mean, do you think he's ever going to fight you? Are you anticipating fighting for a vacant belt someday? Will you wait for a world title shot or go up to 160? What's kind of your plan over the next year? Well, we'll see what he does after this fight, but hopefully we do get a fight with him, you know? But I'm not him because there's the business part of boxing.

But we do want to fight him because he's right now, he's considered the best 154, and I like to have that title for myself. If you were him, would you fight him? Would you fight you, I should say? I don't know. You know, a 6-6 guy's pretty crazy in the week class, but, you know, with my mentality, yeah, I like to fire everybody. All right, Sebastian, I want to hit you with some rapid fire questions for a new segment on the show that we are the standing eight count.

And the first question is the greatest fighter of all time is who? Oh, Mayweather. May brother is always going to be the best. The one in-ring weapon that another fighter has that you wish you had in your arsenal? Deontere's right hand. I'll tell you what. If you had Wilder's right hand at junior middleweight,

nobody would ever want to fight you. You'd have to force everybody. No, no. If you could fight anyone from a pre-year-old. generation, who would it be? A lot of people like to compare me to Tommy Hearns. I think that would be a great fight. Oh, man, that's a great answer.

You and Tommy Hearns at 154 would be unbelievable. When your career is over, you will have won titles in how many weight classes? We'll see how much God will let me move up, you know? Maybe I'll never move this weight class. I'll have the same problem as Sergio, so, you know, we'll see. Sergio is out there trying to fight Jake Paul, so don't try to be like Sergio, okay? Yeah.

All right. Prime Andre Ward versus Prime Canelo Alvarez. Who wins? I have Underwood. Underwood's very, very smart. Great defense, too. That's what makes him so tough to be. Oh, yeah, definitely.

If you could fight in one arena anywhere, where would it be? I've been fighting in my dream arenas already, so I'll probably find staples again, you know? I like staples. California. I love California. All right. Last two. The best part of being six foot six is what? Um, I don't know. I can see everybody's top of their heads, you know?

And the worst part of being six foot six is what? Sometimes I don't fit in doorways. I would have thought airplanes. I mean, I'm six three and I hate flying airplanes. That's equally as bad. I completely forgot about that. That's equal. Definitely is bad. Well, Sebastian, good to talk to you, man. Good luck on October 8th. And hopefully 2023 is when we see you in those world title fights you're looking for.

Good to talk to you. Thank you for having you. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Sergio Amora and Sebastian Fedora for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts. And I'll see you next week. Another podcast from some SNL, late night comedy guy, not quite, on Humor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends,

me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and Friends

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it.

Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast. Podcast Network on TikTok.