The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - A Bloodbath in Vegas

Episode Date: April 3, 2024

Mannix is joined by Corey Erdman to discuss the controversial fight between Tim Tszyu and Sebastian Fundora--and what should be next for each--a dominant win by Isaac Cruz, Gilberto Ramirez's title-winning performance against Arsen Goulamirian, a big test for Richardson Hitchins this weekend and more.  13:21 - Tim Tszyu's cut 21:52 - What's next for Fundora 29:20 - Cruz Ramirez #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me.

Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Cliford show on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcast, And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. The volume. The thrill and excitement of Marchmania is here and Draft King Sportsbook, one of America's

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in Ontario. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. See dkng.com slash B-Ball for eligibility and deposit restrictions, terms, and responsible gaming resources. This is boxing with Chris Manich. Oh, somebody punch him in the face. Anthony Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher. Watch this. Hosted by S.I's Chris Mannix.

That was my moment. Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix. And we are back. Boxing with Chris Manix, part of the Volume Sports Podcast Network. Would welcome in all the subscribers. I've met a bunch of you in L.A. this weekend.

Great to chat with all of you. If you are not a subscriber, head over to the Boxing with Chris Manix feed. Hit that follow or subscribe button. Make sure to get every episode in your feed every single week. The first of two shows that we're going to have coming your way, this week. Today, we have got Corey Erdman, the veteran boxing broadcaster. You saw him on Friday calling overtime boxing on DeZone. Corey and I are going to look back at the big events this weekend, the PBC card in Las Vegas, where we saw a new unified junior middleweight champion crowned

and the Golden Boy Show in Los Angeles, where Zerda Ramirez became the first Mexican-born fighter to win a cruiserweight title. We'll also look ahead to Richson Hitchens. He's in a title Eliminator against Gustavos Lamos as well. So a terrific card, though, in Vegas this past weekend. PBC's debut on Amazon Prime, it had some action fights. I don't know what the numbers were on pay-per-view. I don't care because I said all along this would be a tough sell on pay-per-view. But it was a great card for boxing fans, and it delivered.

You had Sergei Boychuk winning an action fight with Brian Mendoza, Julio Caesar Martinez not only made weight, but he defended his title in a close decision win over Angelino Cordova. You had Eris Lendi Lara scoring a knockout. You had a fun fight between Issaac Cruz and Roli Romero, and you had a war between Sebastian Vondora and Tim Zhu, a fight that Fondora won by split decision. So you got good value out of this card if you bought it this weekend.

That's number one. Number two, I want to specifically address the actions taken, or rather the actions not taken by Tim Zhu in the fight with Sebastian Dura. So, as everybody probably knows by now, late in the second round, Tim Zoo walks into an elbow from Sebastian Dore. Complete accident just happened. And it opens up a massive cut on the top of the head of Tim Zoo. And it was a cut that was so bad that when the referee looked at it at the start of the third round,

the referee's first instinct was to waive the fight off. Ultimately, he didn't. It was allowed to continue. Checked it again. It was allowed to continue. So the referee and the doctors made the decision to let this fight continue. That's one thing. Tim Zhu's corner should have stopped that fight.

Maybe not at the end of the second round when the cut first happened. I don't mind them giving him an opportunity to go out and see what he can do with that cut. But when he came back to the corner, at the end of the third round, a round that he lost, that's when the corner should have looked out more for Tim Zhu. That's when the corner should have said, look, we got nine rounds to go here. This is not a cut that's going to be controllable. Let's look to the referee.

Let's look to the doctor who was ready to stop the fight three minutes earlier. Let's look to them and say, hey, it's not going to happen. Now, the crowd would have gone crazy. It would have been a bad look for PBC having their first fight on Amazon Prime ending with such a dud, but it would have been the wrong. right move, the right decision for Tim Zoo. And it didn't happen. And that to me is the fault of the corner of Tim Zoo.

They should have been better. They should have looked out more for him. You can say it's easy to sit back here and say it in hindsight. But when you saw how bad that cut was and how early that cut developed, you had to know it was only going to get worse. You had to know that Tim Zoo was going to be fighting with a handicap against a massive 6'5.15. pound, hard hitting junior middleweight.

So, look, Tim Zhu's team and Tim Zhu himself, they are warriors. They took the fight with Fondora when they didn't have to. They could have said, we're going to punt, fight again in two or three months. Credits them for that, but this was a mistake. Tim Zhu lost his titles because his corner didn't do right for him. His corner wasn't looking out for him in that moment. That's why he lost those belts that day. Look, there have been no cut.

I don't think I'm going out on a limb to say that Tim Zhu would have won that fight. He was landing some big shots against Fondor in the first couple of rounds. But with that cut, with the handicap, it opened the door for Fondora to do what he did and win the fight in that way. So a bummer for Tim Zoo, we'll talk more about what's next for him. Rematch another fight, how long is going to be out. But I just want to say off the top, I just didn't love the actions taken by the corner. I thought they could have been better. It should have been better in protecting their fighter against that type of

cut. All right. When we come back, I will be joined by Corey Urban. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman

documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hart Radio app, podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Cliverts Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network

on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tantons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of too. Listen to stuff to bowl your mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Or is a writer. You can catch him on his own ESPN, probably some Bulgarian TV outlets.

He is everywhere. Also a good friend of the pod. So I do appreciate every time he can stop by. Corey, I got to tell you, the audio audience can't appreciate this. But my God, that mustache in all its glory, that is something. I caught it. On Friday, watching some of the overtime show on DeZone that you did, just being this sort of virtually close to it, it doesn't do it justice. That is, that is a real mustache. Like, you have got a real mustache right now. Would you care to explain to your legions of fans why you are going the mustache route?

Yeah. Well, I debuted at the night before on DeZone on the Salida, promotions, a big time boxing broadcast. I don't know that I have like a thorough process as to why I'm going this way. I think it boils down to my wife said that I looked attractive and that I said, okay, let me just roll with this. And maybe, you know, to like be a little edgy a little bit. But now I have to enter a whole new world of like beard wax and stuff like this. So I mean, we'll see how long it lasts. But I got to say, I'm liking how it's looking so far, Chris. You know, when you have the hat on and the glasses with the mustache, you kind of look like someone that's entering witness protection.

Like it's... Yes, yes. You've kind of got that anonymous look to you that you could pass as anybody at any time. So if that's where you're going for, well done. I mean, listen, if you want to see more of this, I mean, get yourself a good VPN and get yourself a subscription to these Bulgarian channels also. You know, there have been a couple of times. not to go way off track here, but like when I've shaved, and I could grow a mustache probably pretty quickly, I've shaved and I've left the mustache on, you know, after shave,

just to see what it looks like. And I'm like, no, man, I can't do that. That just, that does not work for me. It does not work for you, Corey, you can pull it off. Me, not so much. So, well done on that bar. We'll have some clue, too, by the way, for people that want to see this Corey mustache up close and personal. So, great weekend in boxing. in Corey, like a four-day... And I want to focus on the stuff that we saw on Saturday night, where we had a new unified 154-pound champion crowned in Sebastian Fondor, also a new cruiserweight champion crowned in Zerta Ramirez.

But let's start with Sebastian Fondora against Tim Zoo, which was not without controversy. At the end of the second round, Tim Zoo suffered a pretty nasty. cut on the top of his head as a result of an accidental clash of top of head front of forearm or elbow area on Sebastian Madura at the end of the second round. Zhu, to his credit, fought through it, but it clearly affected him for the last 10 rounds of this fight. He was constantly wearing kind of that crimson mask, like it was just flowing throughout the course of that fight. So big picture, what did you think of the fight, Fondora's performance, and how much did that cut change things for Tim Zhu? I think the cut changed to absolutely everything.

I mean, at a certain point, and not at a certain point, pretty quickly once that gash had opened up, Zhu was spending a good chunk of his time just pawing at his eyes and trying to figure out a way to see where he was. It obviously impacted him. And I'm going to be honest here. And this is with all due respect to Sebastian Fondora, I went into this fight thinking that Zhu was going to stop Fondora. And even in the early rounds, especially before that cut, but even immediately afterwards, I still thought that was going to be the case. I didn't think that Fondora was going to be able to take types of shots that he was taking

for the entirety of the fight. Now, he absorbed a lot of punishment, and that despite Zhu fighting, obviously, with a big handicap. but it changed the fight dramatically. And I know there are going to be a lot of discussions about, you know, did the zoo corner make the right call? Well, obviously, at the end of the day, it's easy to say no. But I also, I understand the thought process in that case. Number one, your fighter is landing all the shots that he wants to early on.

So you see that cut. Your fighter tells you, yeah, I want to continue, I'm okay. You think that this fight is going to get over with pretty soon. You're going to be okay. that you'll be bailed out. But also number two, I mean, that hideous gash happens in the second round. And I think there's a lot of external pressure in that situation. It's the first BBC show on Amazon Prime is this relaunch of the company, basically.

You probably in the back of your mind are already hearing the groans of disappointment if that show ends because of a foul after the second round. All of these things are in the back of your mind. And then again, at the end of the day, you have a dog of a fighter in Tim, Tim Zutz, telling you, no, I'm fine, let me go. And it backfired obviously. And if they were to do it again, you probably pull him out either immediately or you make the call at like round five or six when you think you're ahead on the scorecard. You tell the referee, no, he can't see. And then hopefully you get the decision. But what we did get from a big picture standpoint, visually, we got one of

the most gruesome-looking bloodiest world title fights that we've seen in a long time. So the controversy aside for PBC for this relaunch, you probably can't ask for more than what you got on Saturday night. Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the corner of Tim Zhu because I touched on this briefly in the open. And look, Tim Zhu won the first two rounds clean. And if you just had those first two rounds to go off, you would have bought into the idea that Zhu could have knocked Fondor out because he was landing that right hand pretty consistently. Fondora couldn't really do much with it. He was jabbing better. than he has in the past, but there were several times Tim Zhu found an opening for that right hand.

And we know Fondor has been knocked out before with a similar type of shot. So sending him out for the third round, I was okay with. But Zhu lost that third round. And he lost the third round in large part because he spent most of it dealing with the blood flowing down from his face. It was getting it to his eye. He was pawing at it. He just couldn't be the same fighter in that third round. Having seen that, the corner at the end of the third round

should have said to the doctor, he can't see. That's enough. Because at the end of the second round, or the start of the third round, when the referee called time and sent Zhu over to the doctor, you saw right away. That doctor was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like the doctor, in that moment, wanted to stop the fight. I think he and the referee agreed.

Let's let it go one more round. Let's see what they can do with it. And eventually they let the thing play out. But the doctor was ready and willing to stop the fight in a moment's notice. If the zoo corner at the end of the third round, it said, you know what, this is too bad. We can't stop the blood. No question. The doctor would have stopped the fight.

The referee would have stopped the fight. It would have gone, not to the scorecards. It would have been in no contest inside four rounds. And look, that's a disappointing outcome for Tim Zhu. but it's certainly better than the loss. And I know you can't foresee what played out, but they should have seen that this cut was bad and this cut was going to get worse.

And the fact they didn't see that, the fact they didn't pull Tim Zhu out, that was a bad call, in my opinion. They should have pulled Zhu out of that fight. And it was another example, Corey, of Tim Zhu and his team in this case, thinking more with their balls, frankly, than with their brains, right? Like, Timzu taking this fight, we all praised him for it, even though I thought maybe a little

bit crazy. You're training for a 5-6 right-hander who are you going to chase around. You get a 6-6 left-hander who is going to be following you. So, like, that in of itself was a little crazy, but we all called Timzu a throwback fighter. We praised him for it. Great. But in that moment, his corner should have recognized that, he was losing, or this fight was going to go bad because that cut was uncontrollable.

And you mentioned like fifth or six rounds. They could have done the same thing. But the fifth or six rounds, you don't know what the scorecards look like at that point. You know, you stop the fight doing an accidental cut. You don't know. Two judges could have it going for Fondora at that point. They simply couldn't take the risk once it went past that fourth round. I look at the end of the third and I blame Tim Zhu's corner for that.

they should have stopped the fight and live to fight another day. Keep your title, take the no contest. Maybe you do a rematch with Fondora. Maybe you don't. But that to me was a big mistake by Zeus Corny. Yeah. And I think that we can safely say that now. I also appreciate that that probably is one of the most difficult positions a corner can be in.

Because of all the things that I was talking about before, that kind of background noise and all those considerations, hey, are people going to be mad at you because you stopped it when it did? Now, obviously, we know we're watching, and they don't know that the viewers, broadly speaking, when they're watching that, they're seeing that and thinking, oh, my God, that's the hideous cut. If this fight stops now, that's okay, I understand. But in the moment, they're seeing a couple things. Number one, their fighter dominated the first two rounds.

Number two, their fighter is saying that he can continue. But then in the back of their mind, yeah, they're thinking, oh, am I going to be labeled, or is my fighter going to be labeled a quitter because he backed out only after he started losing around at that point? Like there's all of these pressures that are rooted in hubris that come along with the sport of boxing and with making decisions for your fighter. And that's...

Yeah, but Corey, he's got like... The corner's got to make that call. No, I know. I know. Like Tim, Tim Zhu would not have been labeled a quitter at the corner point. No, I know that. And nobody... Yeah. Yeah, and nobody with like eyeballs.

would have said that was a bad call. I mean, that that was like not quite Bado Jack territory, but when they went to that kind of wide shot every time the rounds began, you could clearly see the cut on the top of his head. That was a grotesque cut. So, yeah, I mean, that's where the corners got to be the one to take the heat, in my opinion. Like, they have got to be the ones to say, look, I did it.

I didn't think my guy could do it. My guy is tough. My guy wanted to go on, but I decided this fight was no longer to continue. Yeah, exactly. And that's where, again, the difficulties of being a boxing corner is that an ideal situation, you have to be completely emotionally removed from that situation. Because, yeah, if you're looking at that situation purely, logically, purely intellectually, you can see that's a fight that shouldn't continue, probably just medically. But number two, you're putting your fighter in a position to potentially lose that fight. I think you already have to be thinking as the PR person in that moment and say, hey, my response to any questions about this is going to be exactly what you said, Chris.

Hey, I had to make the decision to look out for my fighter. It wasn't safe for him to continue. And then like any follow-up question, there are no follow-up questions at that point. It's that that that's just it. And but I, again, I do appreciate how difficult it is to make that decision in the moment. But retroactively, we could safely say it was the wrong one. So it sounds like Sebastian Fondora as the unified champion now has three options. He can fight Terrence Crawford, who is the ordered mandatory for the WBO version of that title.

That fight was ordered officially this week by the WBO. He could do a rematch with Tim Zew, which Samson Lukowitz, the promoter of Sebastian Mador, said they would do. If Tim Zoo wants an immediate rematch, Lukowitz said they would do it because promises were made, I guess. Like, not everything is in writing, but apparently Fondora agreed to or promised to give Zua a rematch if he won. So Samson's out there saying, if that's what Zoo wants, that's what Zew gets. The other option apparently is Errol Spence, who is now back.

Ariel Spence, back on the scene. Haven't heard from him since that loss to Terrence Crawford, not in any meaningful way. He climbs into the ring afterwards and says he wants to fight Tim Zew. Now that fight certainly is possible. They could fight for the WBC version of Fondora's belt now that he is the champion. He could drop the WBO version of that title. What do you think is the right play here, the right call for Sebastian Fondora?

I think the right call is just taking the Crawford. Like if you have your choice and all three options are on the table for you, I think you take the Terence Crawford fight. And I think because, you know, could you have a match? six months ago, a world in which Fondora was facing Terrence Crawford, like if you get your chance to face arguably the best fighter on the planet, the best pound-for-pound fighter out there that comes along with the purse that it would come along with, I think you take that option.

But I'm curious as to how even these choices actually are for Sebastian Fondora, because you and I know the reality that if someone is getting in the range, and making challenges after a broadcast, not to peel back the curtain too much, but there's usually some discussion about that beforehand. You know, those things are pre-play. And if that's the case, I wonder how much pressure is being put on Fondora to potentially take that Spence fight instead.

And if maybe the idea is to engineer a Spence Crawford rematch with that 154-pound unified title on the line. So those are questions that I have in the back of my mind, but if all things were being equal, I take the Crawford fight, not because I think it's the most winnable fight of the two, but because it's the, it's an attempt at the top of the mountain

that was unthinkable for a fighter like Sebastian's Fondora, forget about six months ago, one month ago. I think that when it falls in your lap, you have to take a chance like that if you're given that option as an athlete as a fighter. Yeah, I take the Crawford fight too. I can appreciate the desire to do right by Tim Zhu from Samson and from Fondora.

But if a Crawford fight is on the table, that is a legacy fight, that is a huge money fight. Those kind of fights don't come around all that often. And for Sebastian Fondora, who has been waiting for a title shot for years. How many years did he have that interim belt around his waist? I mean, he has been right there, you know, at the virtual mountaintop, waiting for this opportunity for a long time. Now that it's there, I think you've got to find a way to take it. I'd like to see a scenario where Fondora fights Crawford and then Zhu fights Sergei Boeuchuk,

who for some reason is now the interim champion for the WBC at 154 pounds. I would love to see that fight take place, and then the winner of those two fights can clash. So, you know, if Zhu beats Boeuch, who looked really good against Mendoza, just mowed down Ryan Mendoza didn't really see that coming. If Zoo beats Boeuch, then you've got a scenario where he's either going to get a shot of Terrence Crawford, which he's wanted all along anyway, or rematch with Sebastian Vandora, which there's interest in after that fight.

To me, that is the best path. The Aero Spent stuff, like, I just want to see Aero Spence back first. Like, come back, get a win. We don't even know what kind of, we don't even know what to expect from Aero Spence anymore. He was just so soundly beaten in that fight against Crawford. Take a lower level fight at 154, show everybody that, you know, you're back. And then get back in the mix there. If you still want a fight, you've still got some miles left.

You can do a fight like that. And I would like to see Aero Spence kind of removed from it for now until he shows that he's back. Yeah, and I think if you're Tim Zhu, I understand wanting, you know, as a competitor, wanting the immediate rematch. But I also, you know, if I'm him, like, I wouldn't go too far out of my way to insist upon that immediate rematch either because I think that any of these scenarios are decent for Tim Zhu anyway. And I also think that the boxing marketplace, you know, from what I've seen, really isn't treating Zhu like a loser in this scenario. I think that most people who watch that fight kind of, you know, to see him as an unfortunate victim of circumstance and of his own bravery. And that whatever Zhu gets next, whether, yeah, it's a Boeuchak fight, whether he fights Aero Spence, whatever happens, that rematch against Fondora, there's going to be interest in it no matter what, even if Fondora went and lost to Terrence Crawford or lost his next fight, whatever, I think that he can get that revenge for himself afterwards.

So if that fight materializes right away, great. but I don't think it's the end of the world for zoo if they can enact that immediately. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, untow. filtered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clivert Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far far away,

such as the biology of Tontons and Wampas on the Ice Planet Hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. The co-main event of this show was Issaac Cruz against Raleo Romero. Roli came into the fight as the WBA 140-pound title holder. But I think a lot of people expected Issaq Cruz to walk through him. And that's exactly what Issaq Cruz did.

Just kept relentless pressure up, almost had him knocked out in the front. first round. I mean, the fact that Roley didn't go down in that first round was a credit to him, but eventually got him out of there early in the eighth round. Roli sounded like he was concussed badly after the fight in that post-fight interview. My question of you, Corey, is about Cruz. Like, did we see a star turn right here, Friesot Cruz, who got a lot of credit for how he fought against Jervante Davis a couple of years ago? Now he moves up to 140 pounds. He wins a world title in his first fight in that weight class. He had a lot of fans in that building.

When I was watching that broadcast back, you know, I would argue that Esau Cruz should have been a headliner there. Like, Issaq Cruz brought the majority of the fans. Like, there was definitely a bit of a letdown when the main event started with Zhu and Fondora. Those fans were there to watch Issa Cruz, a lot of them. Did we see a star-turning performance from Issa? Yeah, or maybe we did.

just didn't know how big of a star he was because those fans, like you said, that they were there for him. But I think that I had the same reaction. When I was watching his ring entrance, I texted my friend Morgan Campbell, and I was like, is it just me or is the crowd absolutely deafening for Issa Cruz right now? Like, he got a reaction that you seldom here, I mean, for any fighter, but let alone a fighter that isn't in the main event that night. And it's interesting. I think that Cruz is in a good position now. in that weight class, in that weight neighborhood, because he seems to represent kind of the antithesis of the other characters around him,

like the Roles and the Garcias and the Haney's, these guys that have, you know, big personalities, big social media presences. They fight with a little more flair. Here's Esau Cruz who fights in one direction, has no frills whatsoever, and fights with sheer aggression. And watching that fight, I have haven't. I can't remember an example of a fighter fighting with more disrespect or disdain for his opponent than Issa Cruz did in that fight. He was fighting like someone who legitimately hated his

opponent and who legitimately believed that his opponent had absolutely nothing that could bother him. And he turned out to be right. And that created a very interesting atmosphere too. I think that was a part of it. I think that number one, people seem to really love Esau Cruz. People also really hate Roli Romero. So it was the perfect combination of two fighters in there that complement one another. It's pro wrestling, right? I mean, the good heel helps the good baby face, and that's exactly what we saw there. And I think that only elevates Cruz and now puts him in a power position with that title and with another win under his belt. Yeah, and I don't want to pickpile Roli Romero, but he's, he is a great character who,

is a bad fighter. Like he just is. He's got a good record, but that record has been built. He should have lost that fight to Jackson Mariners before he fought Gervante Davis. He was okay against Gervante.

I don't think he would... He was against him, but then he ultimately got knocked out badly. In his next fight, he got a gift of a decision by Tony Weeks that awarded him a world title he didn't really earn. anyone that thought Rowley was going to win this fight

doesn't watch enough Esau Cruz and certainly doesn't watch enough Roller Ramirez. Issaq Cruz is not a brutal one-punch knockout guy, but he is a relentless pressure fighter that can crack with both hands. So this fight went out or played out. Probably exactly like most people that understand it, expected to play out. They expected him to walk Roley down and eventually get to him.

And that's exactly what happened. I'd look, Issaq Cruz now just opened up a big door for himself, right? Because now he's got one for a legitimate belt there. Now, we'll see what the WBA orders next. If they are acting with integrity, they will order Ishmael Barroso to face Issaac Cruz. Because Ishmael Barroso has earned it, right? He got screwed against Romero. He responded by wiping out O'Hara Davies in one round and what was supposed to be a title eliminator.

By all rights, that shot at that belt, belongs to Ismao Barroso. But having a title at 140, having a fan base behind you, and having a history with Gervante Davis, makes Issa Cruz a perfect second half of the year opponent for Gervante. Because that rematch got a lot more interesting based on what Issa Cruz did in that fight with Romero

and the crowd that came to support him. Like, I didn't have a huge amount of interest, Corey in the rematch over the last couple of years while Cruz was campaigning for it. I thought he fought well and I think I even scored it to draw his fight with Gervante. But it wasn't some great fight that I desperately need to see one more time. Now that Cruz has a belt at 140 and now that he's bringing his own fan base to the table, that's a fight that does a massive gate in Las Vegas. It is a legitimate world title fight.

So my hope is that Cruz gives Barroso an opportunity to fight sometime this summer. And then end of the year, maybe December, you get a Gervante Cruz matchup that would be a pretty compelling fight both at the box office and when it comes to paper. Yeah, and that fight is extremely compelling now. But I think that looking back and again, looking at the crowd that turned out for Esau Cruz in this fight, I mean, people were making noise for that rematch all along. And I think I was in the same boat as you, Chris. It wasn't top of mind for me. I wasn't clamoring for that rematch. I know that Esau Cruz fought well.

I also understood the realities of Jervante fighting with one hand in that fight as well. But I think, you know, Cruz obviously has a style and a personality that connects with the fan base. People love this guy. And in particular, he has the type of style that just it's simplistic enough that it connects with everyone. Everyone loves this pressure fighter because they think that pressure will be the antidote for everything. You know, all throughout Floyd Mayweather's career, what did we hear? Well, you got to pressure him. You got to, no one ever pressures this guy.

No one ever walks him down. You know when Esau Cruz is in the fight is precisely what he's going to do. So in that respect, he gives the fans exactly what they're asking for. They have a game plan in mind, and he's going to go out there and try it and it either works or it doesn't. Like, he's the perfect fan favorite fighter. And you're right. After, there was already, clearly a lot of people that wanted to see that rematch. Now I think there's a really damn good reason.

isn't to see it too. All right. Speaking of fan-friendly fighters, Gilberto Ramirez is your new WBA cruiser weight champion. This after Zerto put together a pretty comprehensive beating of longtime world title holder Arseng Goulomarian. I was ringside Corey in L.A. for that fight. And I just remember thinking before the opening bell,

like this might be where the Zerto train stops, right? Like, for so many years, we watched Zerto Ramirez's fights, and we saw a guy just bully his opponents. He was always so much bigger than most of his opponents at 168, at 175. But this was a guy he was facing that was a career-long cruiserweight that had 19 knockouts in his 27 wins. That was coming in, even though it was off on a long layoff, with confidence. I'll admit, I believed Goul of Merrim was going to stop him. That was my prediction going into that fight. But Zerda Ramirez, for the second fight in a row,

showed me an evolution to his game. This is not the same pressure fighter, wing shots, win by sheer volume. He had a game plan. He showed good footwork. He showed better than expected defense. You know, I thought the Joe Smith fight was the best fight of Zerda Ramirez's career.

No longer. This win over Gula Marion was the best performance I've seen from Zerda Ramirez. And a real credit to him being able to change his style, become a different fighter at this stage of his career. What did you think of Zerda? Yeah, I thought it was a brilliant boxing performance. And you're right, Chris.

He's adapted to the realities of the new weight class that he can't fight exactly the same way that he did before because he's not going to be colossally bigger than his opponents the way that he's been for the vast majority of his career. And the other thing that I kept thinking, too, is this is kind of an illustration of the realities of how much some of these 175-pounders, 168-pounders are actually cutting or taking off their natural frame.

Because learning that Zerdo walks around around 220, I mean, I know that he's been putting on mass, he's putting on body weight, he's been putting on muscle mass over the last little while, but the fact that that guy was making 168 not that long ago shows you, just what he was doing to his body just to, like, he must have been, you know, turning down every meal, sleeping in saunas, whatever. I don't know how he was getting down there at that point, but it must have been pretty damn uncomfortable. So, but Zerto clearly fits in. Like, he doesn't look out of place at, at Cruiserweight. I thought his body looked pretty solid up there. He seems very comfortable. He seems energetic. And it's fun having a fighter who has a legitimate fan base that's

based in the United States in the cruiserweight division like this. And historically, the spikes in popularity in the cruiser weight division have come when guys have either come down or up that have been popular in other weight divisions. I mean, really, like the genesis of this division entirely is because, you know, Evander Holyfield comes up to cruiserweight. Dwight Muhammad Kauwi comes up as well. Leon Spinks for like one of the inaugural title fights comes down to cruiserweight. You get these recognizable names and people say,

like, yeah, cruiserweight's really fun. These 200-pounders, they're the size of the old-timey heavyweights, they're athletic and with power. These fights are great. So I'm always excited when there is another lens or a clearer lens on this division because, I mean, Zerto against anyone is just, it's not going to be a boring fight. I'll put it that way.

Yeah, I want to give Julian Chua a lot of credit, too, for helping to, you know, change Zerto into the fighter that we're seeing today. he has done a great job at making Zerto Ramirez as a boxer. And I know that was the plan when he first started working with him. There was a lot of people skeptical of it. I'm sure I was among them. But the footwork that Zerto showed against Joe Smith, the pivoting, the movement he had against Gula Marion.

There were things that I was impressed with that just based on Zirdo's natural gifts. Like he took clean shots and he was able to hang with them. So I'm impressed, continue to be impressed by his chin, but he won that fight as much with tactics as anything else. Like I commented on this during the fight, but, you know, Gula Marion was like searching for a target, the entire fight. He was looking for an opportunity to let his hands go. And Zerto all fight long, you know, shrunk up that target. Like he had his head, his chin tucked, his head down, his hands up. They were covering his lower midsection as well.

Like, that was strategy. That was a game plan. Versota Ramirez coming into that fight, and that has enabled him to become the fire that we're seeing today. I just, I'm really impressed. Like, when he lost to Demetri Bebel, Corey, I thought that was it. Like, you know, he maybe goes up to cruiserweight, but he's as big as he is, like, he's not going to be that big a cruise way.

I know people were talking about him as heavyweight. I was skeptical of that. But the changes he's made over the last year and a half and the improvements he's made working with Julian Chua, even more. They've turned him into a guy that's an elite cruiserweight at this moment. Like, he is up there among the top cruiserweight in the world. And to your point, cruiserweight is still not the sexiest of divisions,

but it's becoming more interesting. You know, I said on the air, like it usually is like a way station for fighters on their way up to heavyweight or bridgerweight, I guess. But he's helping to make, he's going to make this division interesting. Because at the top of it, you've got Jayapataya, who is becoming a man. massive star, you know, over in Europe and Australia and in the Middle East, of course, where he's been fighting

of late. You've got other guys that are there. I saw Chris Billum-Smith tweeted at me when I didn't put his name in a graphic in terms of next opponents. He wants a piece of Zerto. He's a developing name. If Zerto wants to try to go to that dumb

bridge your weight division, you could fight. Lawrence O'Cole might have a belt in that way class at some point. That could be an interesting fight. Maybe over in the UK, all of a sudden, this sort of, you know, less talked about weight class is pretty interesting. Like, I'd love to see Zerto against Jaya Apataya. Like, I think that's a great fight. It's a tremendous clash of styles.

The athleticism and the one-punch power of Jai versus just the sheer pressure and volume and skill set of Zerda Ramirez. I think that is a big-time main event, either in the U.S. or over in the UK. Yeah, and I see no reason why that can't. materialize, really, in the near future. I think one thing that has plagued a cruiserweight over the years, and it's the same thing that you see in like the very lowest of weight classes as well. These weight classes that are a little more obscure to the United States audience is that,

and this is a broad generalization, but generally just the finances don't make sense often to make big fights. And obviously, and these are also very international divisions as well, so you'll have a Cruiserweight champion in Australia, and then you have a, you know, a Mexican contender and whatnot. And because if the audience base is there, isn't there, excuse me, where does the money come from? And oftentimes that has robbed us of some fights that maybe we would have wanted in these types of weight classes. But these guys now do have fan bases, and they have broadcasters as well. So, I mean, like, some of the best era that we've seen in Cruiserweight really in the last little while

is because a tournament format wipe these things out and said, well, the money is taken care of, the scheduling's taken care of, fight one another. And the Cruiserweight tournaments that we got were awesome. You know, we all love those. But now I think we have awesome fights and guys with fan bases that also connect here in the United States, which still makes a difference when it comes to money, at least.

I see no reason why we can't get a Zerdo and Obataya. And it would, wherever they put it, I think it draws really well too. Yeah, Chris Bill and Smith made it clear that he's willing to come over to the U.S. to fight. So you do that fight in Southern California, Los Angeles, Anaheim, you're going to draw a pretty decent crowd, and that's a pretty decent main event on his own. Before I let you go, I know you love a good title eliminator, and we've got a good title

eliminator this weekend. Nobody loves a title eliminated in one quarter, a urban. You've got a 140-pound clash, headlined by Richardson Hitchens, going up against Gustavo Lamos. Hitchens, of course, kind of a rising star, pretty much the mandatory at this point for Subreal Matias's 140-pound title. And you got Lemos, who's undefeated, fought almost exclusively, I think, in Argentina. But he's heavy-handed, he comes forward, and he's a pressure type of fighter.

I'm of the opinion, Corey, that this is the kind of fight that Richardson Hitchens needs to do better than just win. Like, his last fight against Jose Zepeda was a clear, dominant. decision win. But it was disappointing. It was, it wasn't entertaining. It wasn't good TV. And I'm not expecting every fight to be Gotti Ward.

But I thought there were moments in that fight against Zapata that Hitchens missed opportunities to close the show. I thought he had a defeated guy in front of him from really the ninth round on. You know, when Zepeda knew he was way down the scorecards, he knew he couldn't catch up to Hitchens. And I thought that Hitchens should have done more to try to finish the fight. by knockout. That's just not in his DNA, though.

Like, he is a mover. He's an incredibly talented guy. He's always in great shape. I need to see more from Richardson this fight. If he winds up beating Lamos in the same way that he beat Zepeda, yes, it will get him at one step closer to that fight against Subreal-Mathias. But it's not going to win him over any more fans. And it's not going to create kind of a mandate to have that fight as a main event on

Dazone or anywhere. So to me, this is an important fight for Richson Hitchens, not just to win, but I think he has to look good. Yeah, I think that doing those things would certainly be helpful. But I think the reality is that not every fighter is going to be great TV. And I think that Hitchens just might fall into that category. I think, you know, you and I called his last fight and there was chaos in his corner. You know, there were some things going on. And I recall you talking to him after the fight.

And he kind of admitted to not stepping on the pedal quite as much because, yeah, that that isn't in his DNA, you know. He had, just to just to clarify, he had for some reason he had Shakur Stevenson call. Yes, mid-fight. He's speaking on the phone. Like mid-fight. And his friend is relaying Chikor's instructions during the fight, which was one of the wildest things that I've ever seen. I don't, Corey, I don't need to see, like I said, I don't need to see a street fight out there. In fact, you go back to the fight Hitchens had two fights earlier,

which was against John Bousa at MSG. That fight went the distance, but Hitchens knocked Bousa down twice. It was entertaining. That was good TV. I want to see Hitchens make some good TV because at the end of the day, yes, it's about winning, it's about winning world titles.

But you make your money by being good on TV, by being someone that fans want to watch on TV. If a television show is not popular, it gets canceled, it gets taken off TV. By that same thinking, if a fighter is not aesthetically pleasing, if fans don't want to see a fighter fight, why are you putting him on TV? Like that is, that's kind of what it boils down to for me.

So again, it doesn't have to be this knockdown slug fest. I don't think he needs to change his game entirely. But if there are opportunities, and I think Lambo's is going to give him some, but if there are opportunities to finish a guy off, don't pull your punches. Don't step back and move. Go in, go for a finish.

See if you can, you know, create a mandate to get that world title. Yeah, and I would say that the, the good thing is that even if he doesn't do it here and he does get the Subriol-Mathias fight, he'll have no choice but to do it against Subriol-Matthias. So whether we see it out of him this time or next time, like Matthias is going to absolutely insist that that happens.

So we're going to see it out of him one way or another. And you're right, Chris, like, we've seen examples of fighters that weren't like totally frozen out but we pay attention to them less or networks have paid attention to them less I mean the example that everyone always think of is Guillermo Riggedow

where he just sort of started like moving down the card a little bit and yes we know this guy's excellent you know the absolute purists who love that kind of stuff they're going to tune in for it but the spotlight starts to they're not many of them right you know they are few and far between

and Hitchens has the kind of style that could land him in that same boat, I think, you know, where he could 120-108 a lot of people doing it that way. I mean, another way that he can go, if he's not fully comfortable being a little bit more aggressive, is he could be even more playful in the ring

and be the guy who's entertaining to watch because, you know, he's mocking you as he's outboxing you. You know, there's, so there could be a little bit of that, or he could just keep accepting phone calls in between rounds, and that also creates some excitement. I just need to see a little

bit of action from him. Like, he's capable of hurting opponents. Like he's strong. His jab is really sharp. And I saw against the beta a wounded opponent in front of him. He's got to take advantage of those opportunities. I mean, you mentioned Guillermo Riggandau. Like, an active version of him right now is Sandor Martine. Like, you know, Sandor Martine is out there, and he's in position to fight for Devin Haney's

World Town. I think Devin Hennon is actually paying him a little bit of money not to enforce that mandatory position before the Ryan Garcia fight. Like, I don't think Devin Haney's ever going to fight. Sando Martine. So like, and maybe Matias doesn't fight him, right? Like, you know,

Devin's now making some noise if he beats Ryan Garcia of fighting Super Real Matias in his next fight. Now, Matias is going to fight, I think, at some point, he is fighting in June, Liam Paro in his home country. After that, he can make a fight with Devin Haney as a unification fight.

The IBF's not going to stand in the way of that. So, you know, if you're Hitchens, you've got to make a statement. You've got to do something that makes people notice. Don't just win 121 away. We all know you're capable of that. Do do a little bit more to bring some action. Yeah, listen, I'm just overly protective of Richards and Hitchens

because I'm a sicko and I love trash talking, arrogant skittish boxers. So that's a fetish of mine. So I'm going to, I'm going to protect him. You talked about the purists that showed up early to watch Riggedale. Yes, I was. Yeah. Yeah. Catch him on BKFC coming up later this year.

Wow. There's that promo. Corey, good stuff, man. Always appreciate your time. I know it's been a busy week. Thanks for joining me. Hey time, man. That's it for this week's episode.

My thanks to Corey Erdman for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcast. And I will see you again later this week. Thank you so much. I go sleep. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite.

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