The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Abandoning Andrade Island

Episode Date: November 30, 2023

Chris is joined this week by the great boxing writer and commentator, Corey Erdman. Chris and Corey recap the Andrade-Benavidez fight (7:20), will we see a Canelo-Benavidez fight in the near future (16:40), was Katie Taylor's latest fight against Chantelle Cameron her best performance to date (40:00), and what can we expect from Ryan Garcia in his next fight (49:25). Later, Ryan Garcia sits down with Chris for an in depth interview about his previous fight, getting out of L.A., and what we can expect from him this weekend (1:00:10). All that and more. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Ah, that is the sound of my ship coming in. I have successfully made it back from Andrade Island, a long and tortured journey after watching Demetrius Andrade just crash and burn on Saturday in Las Vegas, knocked out in the sixth round of his fight against David Benavides. I was overflowing with confidence going into that fight. I was a Demetrius Andrade Truther, undefeated, 19 knockouts, avoided for his entire career. I thought he'd be able to outbox David Bedez. First couple of rounds. Oh, I felt good about my prediction. Then the third round comes, and even though I thought Andre had won that third round,

he took a shot late in that third round that seemed to change the complexion of the fight goes down in the fourth, never really recovers. You could see his footwork was gone, his head was out of it. And the freight train, that is David Benebis, just rolled right over him. So kudos to David Benavides. He is the real deal. Like, you know, we'll get the fighter of the year in the weeks and in days to come. But he's put a pretty good campaign together.

Beats Caleb Plant by one side of destruction and then absolutely mows down Demetrius Andrade. So we'll get into what this means for both those guys. But I wanted everybody out there to know that I have returned successfully from Andrade Island. A little poorer, that's for sure. And certainly a little worse for where. of what happened this past Saturday night.

Got a great show, though, for you. Corey Erdman, writer, boxing scene.com, broadcaster at Zone and other places. He's going to join me. Talk about the Andrade Benevita's fight. Also, Taylor, Katie Taylor, Shantelle Cameron. Great show over the UK, or Ireland, I should say, not the UK. Ireland this past weekend.

Got to correct myself on that one. Corey and I will talk about that. A little bit later, Ryan Garcia. I sat down with Ryan in Dallas, Texas. Very recently, Ryan and I talked about his decision. to move to Texas and to kind of restart his career down there. So we get into all that, his working with Derek James and how he looks at this as kind of a new beginning on what is still a very young career.

But first, as promised, Corey Erdman is here. He will be in Houston, Texas this weekend, not for the Garcia fight, but he'll be working the show on Friday. Corey always finds his way into these very interesting shows. Corey, let's just remind me. That is the Red Owl Boxing Show, which is taking place. on Friday the day before the Ryan Garcia fight, correct? You are correct, yeah.

So it's a new kind of prospect-ish series that's being launched on DeZone. Red Owl Boxing has agreed to about nine shows so far with DeZone. We've done a couple of Red Owl cards from Canada featuring some Canadian prospects, but this one is really leveled up in terms of the talent that's on. And so the main event will have Omar Salcido and Luis Coria, Jaliel Hackett, the Mayweather prospect, will be on that card as well. and a bunch of other interesting names. And, you know, in a post-showbox world

and in a world now where there's more boxing broadcast than ever, we need series like this to keep fighters of this caliber, both prospects and kind of fringe contenders active. And I'm liking the way that this one's shaping up. So I'm excited to do it. Nobody loves a good prospect series or fringe contender series like Corey Herdman. I consider myself something of a boxing nerd. When we have these disowned production meetings,

I tend to nerd out a little bit, but I pale in comparison to the nerd knowledge of Corey Erdman. When he walks in there and is able to quickly identify, like use Becky prospects and, you know, the Canadian talent pipeline, I bow to your knowledge of the inner workings of low-level boxing. I will give you that. I mean, listen, I mean, you understand the level of commitment to fighters. I mean, you were a platinum member of the Andrade Club. which Andrade Island sounds a lot like being at the White Lotus right now.

Maybe worse. So let's talk about what we saw this past weekend with Andrade and Benavides. Andrade undefeated middleweight champion, second fight at super middleweight. At the very least, Corey, I thought this was going to be competitive because Andrade was always a big middleweight. And I thought he still had the skills, even at 34 years old, to give David Benevete. a lot of problems. And look, the first couple of rounds he did. Like his footwork was sharp. He moved really well. He stayed low, didn't allow Benavides to kind of close the gap on him. But like I said, end to that third round, he took a shot. And then the fourth round,

he just started to get it mowed down. Did this go the way you expected it to go? What did you think of the way the fight played out? I couldn't have predicted that it would go like this. I mean, this kind of destruction was certainly surprising to me. I wasn't picking Andrade coming into this fight. But like you, I thought that Android would be mobile enough to cause problems at least into the later rounds and, you know, maybe then get stopped. But I didn't see it going quite this way. And I wrote about Benavides on boxing scene for my Monday column. And for me, I think this was the full, the full, me kind of seeing the full picture of David Benavita. The full Benavides. Did he show you the

full Benavides? Yeah, exactly. He revealed himself to me on Saturday night. And I like, what I saw Chris Mannix. This was a fighter who clearly is more than just an imposing physical presence because there were adjustments that he had to make to Andrei. This wasn't just someone that was mowing down someone who was moving up in way. That was certainly a factor. You know, Andrade looked like, you know, he was on the hypertrophy program coming into this fight. It certainly bulked up maybe more than he was comfortable with. But the boxing skills were still there. The hand speed was still there. The strategy certainly seemed to have a pretty good one, but Benavides wasn't just physically imposing. It wasn't just the hand speed. It wasn't just the

power. It was those adjustments that he was able to make. And he made them quickly, and he turned it into a route, as you said, basically from the end of the third round on. So this was an impressive performance for me and really, you know, put into full picture just how scary of a proposition David Benavides was. As I was watching it and then writing about it afterwards, I was coming back to there was a moment during, in a way, Maloney when Andre Ward and Tim Bradley were on commentary and they kind of broke from the convention of trying to be a commentator,

trying to engage in conversation. And they slipped into that role of just being fighters who were watching someone and being mesmerized from them. And Andre Ward just kept repeating the line, he's a lot to deal with. It's a lot to deal with. And as I was watching that Benavides performance, that's what was playing in my mind. David Benavides is a lot to deal with for anyone at 168 and wherever he winds up on the scale. Look, Benavides is a notorious slow starter. And we saw some of that in this fight.

First round, Andrade outpunched Benavides eight to seven. Second round, Andre, 12.8. Then you get to the third round. And like I said, even though I thought Andrew had won that round, He got to like the final minute, and Benavides landed something big. I don't know if it was a body shot or a head shot, but he landed something that put Andrade on his back foot and had them moving over those final 35, 40 seconds. Then you get to the fourth round, and it's Benavides 18, Andrade 12. Fifth round, David Benavides landed 40 punches on Demetrius Andrew. 38 of those punches were power shots, the one that knocked him down.

Andrade only landed 10 punches in that round, in that round. Then the six comes around. same thing. 38 punches landed to 14, 36 of those punches, according to copybox, were power shots. So he really is like, you know, he's a young man, but he's kind of like an old car, like he just kind of gets going

slowly, and then just is almost impossible to stop when he starts getting some momentum. And, you know, I don't know who can compete with that. Now, that brings the natural, you know, segue up to Canelo Alvarez. And I guess we start here.

if Benavides fought Canelo in May, and we can get into later, will he fight Canello in May? But if Benavides fought Canello in May, who would you make the favorite right now? I know oftentimes we become kind of prisoners of the moment where we just saw something awesome and we forget how awesome something else is. And Canello, even though he's not the guy we saw back in 2018 going toe to toe with Ganadi Golovkin beating up later on Callum Smith and Billy Joe Saunders and all those guys, he made his way to the top of 168. He's still a dangerous guy.

He still has some of the best hand speed in boxing. He still has some of the best power in the super middleweight division. But if Benavides and Canelo fought this May, who would you make the favor in that fight? I still make Canello the favorite. And I was interested in this. And so I looked to see if anyone was actually offering odds on this yet. And I did find one sports book that was. And Canello was a little under a two to one favorite, which I think is.

fair and I think that that is that's a credit to David Benavides and I would have thought and probably campaign for that line to be a little bit wider before I saw what I saw out of Benavides against Andrade I will sort of flip this another way though and I will say that although I think Canello is the rightful favorite both because Canello's been basically the premier fighter in boxing for the last decade until you know kind of fully proven otherwise deserves that but also from a odds maker perspective, I understand, you know, the economics of betting and why they would make it that way. However, when I'm coming into this fight now, my mind has kind of shifted into the question of whether Canelo can beat Benavides and not the other way around. So I'm kind of, I'm not

meaning to dodge the question here, but I'm kind of, in my mind, I now actually do question whether Canello is big enough, fresh enough to deal with what I've seen out of Benavides and that's the main question in my mind and not hey like does Benavides have what it takes to beat Canello? I want to see how does Canelo deal with this guy because this is a proposition he hasn't seen yet. And Benavides, listen, he doesn't do the things that Bevo did to beat Canello, but I'm not entirely certain that he can't do some of the things that Bevo did to beat Canello plus some other stuff that is really dangerous to Canelo. So this is become even more fascinating to me. Well, I think that two to one odds in favor of Canello are about right.

And you say that Canelo's not seen the kind of things that Benavides has done. I would argue back that Benavita doesn't see anything close to what Conello does. Of course. The one common thread, like the common thread of least of 2023 for Benavita's opponents have been, neither of them have any power, right? Like, you know, Caleb Plant, due respect to some of the knockouts he's had, not a power puncher. Demetrius Andrade, 19 knockouts, whatever, not a power puncher. like not pillow-fisted by any stretch, but these aren't knockout punchers.

Canelo Alvarez is a knockout puncher. Canelo Alvarez can hurt you with one shot, can knock you down, and knock you out with one shot. Now, he is not the five, six punch combination guy he once was. We saw that in the Jamel Charlo fight. The Canelo from 2018 would have walked right through Jamel Charlo, would have landed one big shot and followed up with like seven more. That guy doesn't really exist anymore. At least we haven't seen him in a couple of years. But, you know, Benavides comes in just full speed.

Like, he is, when he comes at you, there's no slowing down. Like, he is coming at you and throwing a whole bunch of punches. That's a dangerous thing to do with a puncher, the kind of like Canelo Alvers. So I would argue in favor of Canello that you just, you're not going to do some of the things that have made you successful against a fighter like Canello. You're not going to throw as many punches as you do per round against Kenela. We see that time and again. Like, you know, the output of opponents against Kenilo Alvarez is so much different than what it is against other opponents because you're worried about what's coming back. Like, you know that if you're going to stand in the pocket and trade, something big is probably coming back at you.

The only guy's willing to do that has been Demetri Bevel. One thing Bevo has shown throughout most of his career is that he has a light heavyweight chin. Like he is, he has legit chin. He has been hit by Joe Smith. He has been hit by Canelo Alvarez. He can stand up to that type of power. Now, I think Benavides is a good chin. Does he have a granite chin?

Can he take a big counter shot? That remains to be seen. That's why I think that fight is so interesting. Now, the question becomes, will Canelo take it? And, you know, in kind of poking around people I know around team Canello, I don't get the sense that this is a front burner, you know, opponent for them. Like I still, I think there still is interest in a Terrence Crawford to fight Canello in May, because that is a probably the most marketable fight that can be made for Canello Alvarez right now.

There might be somebody else. I mean, Edgar Berlanga is still out there with an undefeated record. Hyman Mungia is still out there with undefeated record. He could go a multitude of different places for his next fight. And that's kind of the sense I get. Now, could things change in the weeks ahead? Yeah, sure. Like, you know, Canelo, he might decide, wake up mid-decently.

December, you know what? Maybe I will fight this guy. Maybe it is time to kind of prove once again to people that I am still at the top of my game. But I don't get the sense, Corey, that this fight's imminent by any stretch. I think there are other options Canello was looking at and David Benavides is not high on that list. Yeah, that does seem to be the case. And, you know, you're, you know, you've been sniffing around a lot more than I have on this front to find out, you know, what Canello's thinking right now, but the way that Canello has talked about Benavides or really has kind of avoided that scenario in those questions has always suggested to me that it's not something that he's running towards. That's not to say that I think that Canello is

afraid of David Benavides or anything like that. No, because Corey, Canello is in, and I've said this on this podcast before, Canello is in his Mayweather years, right? Like he is now in his money-making, maximize exposure, cash, all those things years. You know, Three years ago, and look, I said this David Benavides. Like, David doesn't think Canello's ducking him either. David knows full well that a few years ago, if David still had 168 pound bell, Canello would have fought him. Like, he was determined to become the super middleweight champion of the world,

the undisputed king at 168. Now, it's like, well, what's the smartest fight out there for me to take? He's not going to duck David Benavides forever, but if, you know, he's not going to feel like he's obligated to find him. I understand that. I don't love it because the best fight out there in May is Canelo against Benevitas. But if I'm Conello and I'm in my early to mid-30s and I've accomplished pretty much everything. I'm a first ballot hallfamer.

I'm a three-division world champion, four-division world champion. Sorry, I move it to 175 when he beat Sergey Kovalev. He's proven everything that he wants to prove. So if he wants to go out there and fight Terrence Crawford in a fight that would do more pay-per-viewbys than a Canelo Benevita's fight. I'm sorry, it's true. Benevides, he's well known to people like you and me and others in boxing. Terence Crawford is known by more.

And Terence Crawford coming off that win over Errol Spence is at his peak market ability. So if he wants to go out there and fight Terrence Crawford, I can't really begrudge him for that. Yeah, and even though there is that weight disparity, I can see, you know, Canello clinging on to that, the pursuit of pound for pound greatness again, right? You know, Canello for so long was universally regarded as number one in the world. And now there are a lot of people who think that that man is Terrence Crawford, either him or in a way. And again, even though there would be, you know, they would be playing some games with the weight a little bit. In his mind, beating Crawford may kind of signify superiority over the entire sport again.

And that is far more tantalizing to him than just beating, you know, the new young upstart to pick up another 168 pound title. And, you know, you're right. Canello has, it's tough because we want to kind of treat every active fighter the same and make the same demands of them. But Canello, you just pointed out all of his accolades. He is in the equivalent of what a musician would be in when they're kind of a legacy act. It doesn't matter what album they release at this point. They're going to sell out stadiums and they're going to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. And that is the position that Canello is in. And what did those acts do? They do just what seems most fun to them? What venues seem fun?

Do they want a Vegas residency or do they want to play some monstrous stadium? Those are literally the choices that Canelo has right now as an active fighter. And so I think that Crawford seems more appealing to him than Benavides does right now. I believe that Canello will fight David Benavides within the next 18 months. I believe he will. I don't think he's going to duck Benavides forever. But I think going to Crawford or somebody like that makes more sense to him for May. September, who knows?

I mean, look, the Saudis could wake up and write a check and have Dimitri Bevo fight against Archer-Bever in the spring, and all of a sudden, Bevo could be walking around as the undisputed champion at 175. That could tempt Canelo to get into the ring again with Bevel before the end of the year. But I do think that we get Benavita's Canelo at some point. I just don't think we're going to get it in May of next year. Maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully I'm wrong.

But that's the sense I'm getting right now. As far as Benavides goes, he said something interesting in the aftermath of this past fight. He said that if Canelo can't happen, he'd be willing to go up and wait to fight Demetri Biebel himself. And I love that attitude. I absolutely positively love that fight. Because look, David Badez is basically a 175 squeezing his way down to 168 anyway. He's going to be bigger than Dmitri Bival if he steps in the ring with him at 175. He's got the style.

He's got the power. That is a can't miss type of fight. I would love to see David Benevarez fight Dmitri Bibo in spring. if Canelo says, you know what, I'm not going to do this right now. Because if Benavides beats Beaville, I mean, all of a sudden, that's the fight that Conno almost has to take. Because then Benavides would have a light heavyweight strap. He will have beaten the guy that beat Canello.

That's the one thing I think that David Benavides can do to make sure Canelo fights him in his next fight. Yeah, then he's basically cornered Canelo, provided that Canello is still, you know, looking for achievement as a professional and not just looking to put on events. Yeah, I mean, that would be a fantastic fight. And what a position to get Bevo in, especially if Bevo can't get that,

better be a fight beforehand. You know, Bevo's been inactive. He's had a serious turmoil outside of the ring as well. Like, why not go and give that a shot? And again, you know, the boxing public these days is a lot more forgiving of these types of, like, dare to be great scenarios. We use that term a lot.

But Benavita's going up to 175, even if he doesn't beat Bebe. Beel, come back. You won't lose anything by taking that risk. So if that fight is available and he wants it, I love the fight and I'm fully in support. I love that fight. And if Bevel really wants a challenge and wants to make some money, that's the fight he takes to. Obviously let everybody hope that. If Archer-Betterbeef gets through Calum Smith in January, which is a tough fight. That's not a gimmie for Betterby. But if he gets through that and the Saudis want to write a check, by all means, let's see that fight. That's the best fight you can make.

at light heavyweight. But if that's not available, then a Benavides-Veevo fight in Vegas is awesome. Like that is a phenomenal fight, a pay-per-view fight to make sometime in, you know, April or May in Las Vegas, maybe in Texas, maybe somewhere, maybe New York, who knows, wherever it is, it's a tremendous fight. On the undercard of this show, you had Jamal Charlo making his return. Two and a half years out of the ring, the former middleweight champion didn't go so well for him on Friday when he missed weight by three and a half pounds. A catch win, I should point out. He was originally supposed to make 163, blew that, finished up, I think, at 166.6.6 or something like that. Eventually, the fight went on

with Jose Benavides, who is really 140, 147 pounder was coming way up and wait for this particular fight. All that being said, but Jamal looked fine. You know, he hadn't been in the ring for a long time. He obviously had some weight issues for this training camp. He trained three weeks for this fight. And he looked fine. Like, his speed looked pretty good. His power looks. look decent, didn't really have any kind of problem with Benevides. What was your assessment of Jamal Charlo's performance in the co-man event? Yeah, I think that my assessment is basically what Jamal's assessment was of his own performance, which is that, listen, he got it done and he's proud of himself for getting it done. And, you know, in listening to Charles

speak to the media in the buildup to this fight, I think you've got a greater sense of just kind of what kind of struggles Jamal was going through. And he didn't specify exactly what he was going through, but I think, you know, having seen Jamal in public over the last several years and, you know, how erratic his behavior was coming, I think we can come to our own conclusions as to what he was dealing with. But he was dealing with a lot. And, you know, I'm willing to give someone grace for that, you know, like, I don't care that that he missed weight. You know, obviously, you know, he had a truncated training camp and he was, you know, probably starting from a much higher point on the scale, given what he was dealing with before.

But inside the ring, he looked like a supremely talented fighter who hadn't fought for a while. But all of that seemed to still be there. You know, when you look at the underlying statistics of that fight, landing 40% of his shots overall in nearly 50% of his power shots, that tells me that the punch selection is still there, that accuracy is still there, and that Jamal, after, you know, one or two more serious training camps

and then a step up in opposition, still has it in him most likely to get back to somewhat close to where he was before. So I think that that fight provided exactly what Jermal needed. It got him comfortable with being, you know, out there and fighting again, given what he was dealing with behind the scenes. I think it's just exactly what he needed. He got it and he showed me the right amount that I needed to see to believe that Jamal could still be a thing.

Yeah, I have been very critical of, Germal professionally as a middleweight champion. I didn't like that he wasn't seeking out the biggest fights, most notably Demetrius Andrew, but he also didn't make fights with guys like Jaime Mungia, didn't make fights with Gennady Golofkin. I took issue with that over the years. Personally, I'm very impressed with Jermal Charler, really how he conducted himself during the buildup to this fight, and really how open he was about his mental health challenges and the things he had been going through in his life. Look, his brother didn't come to the show. That was surprising. Jamal, you know, just weeks earlier, he'd come to, you know, Jamel's fight against Kenela Alvarez.

Jamal, Jamel wasn't there for this fight. And you saw at the end of that press conference after the fight, Jamal basically made a plea to the media to, you know, say hello to my brother for me, tell him I love him. So I give Jamal a lot of credit for being so open about what he's gone through over the years. Now, the question is, can he get back to the proverbial mountain top? I think 168 is going to be a challenge for him because even though he won that fight against Jose Benavides clean, he was backing up a lot. And again, Benavides is not a middleweight or a super middleweight.

He's a welterweight who, you know, is beefing up just for the opportunity to fight someone like Jamal Charlo. What happens when Jamal's in the ring with Caleb Plant, which is a guy that, you know, clearly there'll be some clamors for, are some clamors for him to fight? What happens if he fights a guy like David Benavita? I mean, if Jamal had fought Benavides on this night, it would not have gone any better for him than it did for Demetri Sandor. In fact, he probably would have gone worse because, you know, Andrea at least was able to stick and move for a couple of rounds. I don't think Jamal has that really in him. I think the key for Jamal is going to be staying active. And that may mean taking another low-level fight. Like, let's say he can fight again in February. And granted, at this point, as we record this, I have absolutely no idea where these PBC fights are going to wind up. But if he can fight again in February, he should do it.

Like, even if it's for relatively low money, he should do it because he's got to try to get some of that ring rust off the momentum back, get his confidence back to a sky high level. I think he's at least two fights away from being able to challenge, even someone like Caleb Plant. I would love a Caleb Plant fight. That is a big event because we all know the bad blood between those two guys. Caleb Plant slapped Jamal, you know, just a couple of months ago. I don't think he's there yet.

And look, I'd still like to see him in against Andrei down the line. I don't think he's there yet. I think he needs, no, not a Benavita's type. But he's a legitimate 168 who's not a huge threat to kind of get himself back to that world championship level. Maybe it means fighting on another undercard. Maybe it means taking a reduced purse. But to get back to the kind of paydays he's looking for and the events he's looking to be in,

I think he needs to stay active. I think you need to see him kind of going back to his roots, you know, before he's he was a world champion, before he was, you know, one of the best guys at 54 and then 60. I think he needs to kind of rebuild that way in order to him for him to get back on top. Yeah, I think so too. And, you know, I hope that that he sees that as well, because you're right, I don't think that, you know, a 10-month layoff where he's hoping for a bigger fight. And he thinks that, you know, the improvements, the getting back to where he was before will just happen in camp. I think it's going to happen in live action. And I think for him, too,

having continual structure and fights to look forward to, that's probably good for him as a person and as an athlete as well. So I think on both fronts, it's a good idea for Jamal to remain as as active as possible. And I think that if he does, I think that we'll see a little bit more aggression coming back. You know, you mentioned that he was backing up against David Benavides, or excuse me, against Jose Benavides. I think that's to be expected for a fighter that is really rusty. I think when you've been out of action for a long time, that's kind of where you find comfort, is backing up and seeing what's coming at you

and then reacting to that. But as your confidence builds, your fitness increases, you start to take some more chances. You start to get a little bit more aggressive. And so I think that we'll see that return from Jamal provided that he can be active and he can continue to shake that rust off.

And it's also just good for him in terms of his public standing as well to be busy, you know, get a few more impressive performances back under his belt and suddenly his name value starts to rise again. I think that it's good on every front for him to take the He's still got a name. He's still got an undefeated record. He still for now has 160 pound title. There is a pathway, a clear pathway for Jamal Chal to get back into bigger fights. I just think he needs to he's into it. And I think he needs to find a way to be active. And that means communicating with his handlers, look, I don't need the big purse.

I don't need the headlining slot. Like, just get me back out there. Keep me on cards to get me back to a level where I can compete with the guys that people ultimately want to see him. Last thought on that card. The Subreal-Mathias fight against Erkachev. Like, you knew that was going to be just a, yeah, it had the potential to be the fight of the night.

And it was close to it. It was certainly the best. fight of the undercard, I thought. First round, you know, Ergachev is just coming out, just throwing bombs. Like, you know, it looks like a bodybuilder. You're sitting there going, no way Batiaz could hold up on this. But Matias, for like a round and a half, just took everything that Ergashv had to offer. Then that, like, third round kicked in.

And Batia started throwing back. And once he started throwing back, you could tell Ergishev was like, holy shit. Like, I'm not used to this. Like Ergachev, for all his knockouts, Ergishev would not fought anybody. Like his resume was paper thin when it comes to elite level competition. Matthias has not fought a ton of world beaters either, but his resume was a little bit better. And you get to that point, what was at the end of the fifth round, I think is when it ended. The end of the fifth round, like, I don't know what Ergishev officially said was the reason,

but that was a pretty glaring example of a fighter screaming no moss. Like wanted nothing more to do with the pounding that Subriel Matias had delivered on him. him for about three rounds towards the end of that fight. So, Matthias is a belt at 140. He is obviously entertaining. Is he the best at 140 right now? Because Junior Walter waits now one of the best divisions in boxing. Tafi Mlopis, who has a world title.

You're going to see Regis Pro Greig, go up against Devin Haney for another version of that world title. But where do you put Matias on this list? Well, he's not the best. I know that there's a particular person who's in your Twitter DMs who has felt that way for quite some time. And, you know, maybe they're starting to get to you a little bit. They're starting to break you down like Matias does to his opponents.

I will say that, like, I don't think it would be fair to rate him as the best fighter in the division. But I also don't count him out against any of those fighters above him. And I think that there are questions about a lot of those fighters that are ranked above him. You know, the Josh Taylor's, even Teufimo Lopez, you know, Regis Pro Gray. There's reasons to have questions about them. There's reason to have questions about Mateas too, because his level of opposition isn't as high as those other names I just mentioned. But Matias seems to be on an upswing. And some of those names that I just mentioned, they're coming off performances where,

performances even, you know, most recently or in recent history where you have some questions. And that becomes tempting, you know, in your mind, you start to think, well, you know, would Mattias start to run over these guys? I don't know whether he would or he wouldn't, but he's a very unpleasant night for anyone that he runs up against. And his punch output, and in talking to the people that he trains with, a way that he trains at altitude, this is a man with a different level of cardio and a different level of fitness. And he has the capacity to throw a number of punches that can overwhelm anyone in that division.

And so I'm looking forward to seeing him take those challenges, and I'm not entirely convinced that he would be out of his depth. does have a loss on his resume. He did lose a decision to Petrosanani and avenge that loss later on, so he give him credit for that. So it's not like he's unbeatable.

But he does seem like a guy that's just kind of getting better. Like he's improving every single fight. And when you have that kind of chin, and he took some shots from Urgesham, when you have that type of chin and that type of motor and that type of power, you're going to be a handful

for a lot of people. Him, the king of 140. You're right. I do have a guy in my Twitter DMs who constantly sends me paragraphs about Subriela Matias. Like just constantly, even before this last fight. Like it was this whole, this is, this is the fight that Subaru Al Matias is

going to be coronated as the king of 140. All right, well, we'll slow our role there. But that was an impressive win. Facing another power puncher in a world title defense, he got the job done. He made a good fighter absolutely quit. I don't know where his kind of

a king-making fight's going to come. You know, it's almost like he's going to be operating in a different bracket for a while, right? Like, you know, Haney, Progray, when that happens, Progris made some noise about fighting him. Maybe he does. I don't think Haney would go near him because Haney, you know, doesn't care about a unification. He cares about money. Haney's already been the undisputed champion in one-way class. Haney wants money fights, and right now, Matthias is not a money fight.

Tamfima Lopez, I have no idea what's going to happen with Tamfimo in the months to come. Like, every time I go on YouTube, like, there's, a new video of somebody throwing a camera phone at Teafimo's face and him like saying something that pretty clearly indicates he's not going to be boxing anytime soon. I know Top Rank wants him back in February. We'll see. We'll see what happens there. I mean, Teofimo seems to place a premium on his value.

And if he doesn't get it, it doesn't sound like a guy that's going to fight. So Super Al Matias might be kind of just hanging off to the side. Like there's something happening right now at 140 with what Golden Boy is doing. you've got on the undercard of Ryan Garcia and Oscar Duarte, the interim fight between O'Hara Davies and Ismael Barroso. That'll be for the interim 140-pound title while Raleigh Romero figures out when he can fight again or if he can fight again. It sure sounds like Golda Boy is going to try to direct Ryan Garcia that way.

Like put him in either with Roli Romero in the spring of next year or the first quarter of next year, or perhaps if the WBA elevates the lower. winner of Davies versus Barroso, that's the fight for Ryan Garcia. And then maybe you're talking in the summer, the winner of Haney Progray versus Ryan Garcia. So I think Matias is really good. I just think it's going to be a while before we see him in kind of a marquee fight because I don't think any of these top guys at 140 are going to be running to fight it because he does present a lot more risk right now than reward, even with the title around his waist. Yeah, and it's a shame for Matias because fighters who fight the way that he does, they tend to have relatively short shelf

lives because even, you know, as he's waiting and fighting whoever, making these title defenses while he waits for those big names, it's taking a toll on his body, you know, both in training camp and inside the ring with shots that he takes. And it may be that by the time he gets those fights that we've seen the best of Matias by the time that ever happens. But in the interim, I think that he can establish himself as kind of the, the, the, premier action fighter of the day. You know, I think that there are fights out there at 140, you know, for the real sickos against, you know, names like Steve Plagin.

You say real sickos. You're talking about yourself. Like just like you. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I'm talking about me. I'm talking about me. For me, make Matias and Clagin.

That's what I want to do. You are the only one. That's like, you're like the guy that's going to, that's calling out for like Canelo William's William Scull, right? William's IBF mandatory. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's who you are right now calling for Matthias Clag. It's me in like 500, me and like 500 Quebecwa.

But it's kind of the same thing with Jamal-Charl. Like, if you're Matias, if you can't get that marquee fight in the first half of 2024, you've got to be active in that first half. You've got to find a way to fight twice, right? Like, you've got to keep building that name up. So as you start racking up these knockouts, eventually someone's going to have to turn to you and say, we want to put that guy on. Now, I don't know what his contract situation is.

I know Matron was trying to sign in at one point, thought they were going to. But he could easily find himself on the Matron side of the street, which would make things a lot easier to get one of those big fights. But I think activity has got to be the key. Maybe that is a reason to sign with Matron. Matcham's got the dates, both in the U.S. and the U.K. He could very easily get two fights in the first half of 2024. But that, to me, is going to be what to watch for with Matias. He is a fun fighter, a talented fighter, a powerful fighter.

but he's got to find a way to stay active. Let's talk about Katie Taylor. That's against Chantelle Cameron. That's one of those events, Corey, I wish I was at. Because that seemed like a lot of fun. First of all, it was a great fight. Katie Taylor, Shantel Cameron, too, just a rock'em-sockham robot type of fight over in Dublin, Ireland.

Katie Taylor winds up squeezing out a split decision, majority decision win, right? Is that what they call it? Two-s majority decision win against Chantel Cameron. You know, this was like Katie Taylor digging deep one more time. You know, she came into this fight as the underdog. She made good adjustments. It was a close fight.

It was a competitive fight. We can quibble about was it or was not a knockdown in the first round. Did Taylor do too much holding? But the reality is she dug deep and she got it done. I would still argue that the Serrano win was Katie Taylor's signature performance, only because you kind of had that in. ring moment, right? The fifth round when Katie was just on Dream Street.

When Amanda Serrano was administering the kind of beating you rarely see in women's box, and we didn't see that in this one, but this win was every bit as important as that one. If Katie Taylor had lost this fight, yeah, she could probably go back to 135, keep her career going, but

I don't know, it would have been different. That's for sure. Where do put this among the Katie Taylor performances and what did you think of the fight? Man, I mean, I might even say that this was a better performance than the Serrano fight, even if it wasn't quite as, maybe if it wasn't quite there in terms of the moment, you know, because Taylor Serrano is really, really special at MSG.

That's the best crowd that I've ever been in. And I would have loved to be there for Taylor Cameron, too, as well. And not even calling it. I wish that I were just somewhere near the ring with one of those Connor McGregor non-alcoholic beers that were the main sponsor of this event, you know, just enjoying it because that atmosphere was nuts as well. Yeah, I think that this one might have been a little bit better. I think that maybe because she didn't face that kind of adversity,

there wasn't that low point in the fight. And also, you know, fighting above maybe where she's fully comfortable. And it also for me was special because it looked like Katie's body was breaking down over the last couple of fights. I know that you'd been in camp with her. And, you know, I had talked to Katie about kind of the knee troubles. and I think she had some foot issues and ankle issues. Well, she's been, just to put that in perspective, when you see Katie in recent vites standing in a corner between rounds,

not sitting on the stool, that's because of leg issues, cramp issues. Like if she, in the past, if she had sat down, it would have made her legs cramp up. And if you're Katie Taylor, you rely on a lot of bounce, that could have been a big problem. Yeah. And to see that bounce return in this fight,

I mean, was phenomenal, but also it says a lot about how much Taylor potentially has left. I think the difference, as you put it, you know, she could have lost this fight and gone back to 135. But winning this fight or not was the difference between this being the Katie Taylor retirement tour, or how much can Katie Taylor enhance her legacy now? Because now, you know, that version of Katie Taylor, you pick her over a whole bunch of different names. And maybe you start thinking about going up to 147 to pick up a number. belt there too. I mean, the options are all over the... I know about that.

I don't know what... I'm going to go fight McCaskill again at 147. Right. Sandy Ryan or... No, I don't. That may... I think Katie has reached her weight maximum. She was... And look, Shantelle Cameron had fought lower than 140 before. So it's not like Chantel's... Yeah, she wasn't a Goliath. But Katie is a 135 pounder.

Yeah, she could fight McCaskill because McCaskill... She already beat McCaskill. Right. McCaskos is at 135. I just don't know what the, you know, Katie right now is a moneyweight fighter. And, you know, whether that's at 135 or 140, that's where she's most likely going to stay, which leads me to the next question. Like, Katie immediately after the fight said she wanted to do a trilogy fight with Chantelle Cameron in Croke Park in Ireland. Now, Croke Park is a massive stadium in Ireland. 80,000 fans in Dublin can watch that fight.

It was where the matchroom team originally wanted to bring the first fight against Cameron, which was originally supposed to be the rematch with Amanda Serrano. Things didn't work out, government issues, safety issues. A lot of things were going on with Croke Park at that time. It sure sounds like Matronom is going to push pretty hard to get Katie's next fight in Croke Park. Now, Katie said Chantal Cameron, but Eddie heard afterwards was like, well, still got Amanda Serrano out there. Let's not forget how good that fight was at Matt's Square Garden.

Corey, I'm of the opinion that this should be a no-brainer. Like, Shantel Cameron was an excellent fight, and Chantel Cameron is an excellent fighter. But she's like, I don't want to call her an opponent because that's disrespectful to Shantel Cameron. But she's, she was brought in because of her titles. Katie wanted to fight the undisputed champion at 140. She wanted a big fight and a marquee event. Amanda Serrano, it doesn't. doesn't matter what belt she has. Amanda Serrano is a star in her own right. You know, that night at

MSG, there were a lot of Irish fans there, but the other half were Puerto Rican fans that were there supporting Amanda Serrano. So she brings her own fan base to the table, her own visibility. You know, pound for pound lists, you know, Katie, Amanda, Clarissa Shields, pick your poise, all three of them, those women at the top. I just think it's a much smarter play to get that Serrano fight over the line. I don't know why it kind of fell out the radar, you know, in recent months. obviously Katie wanted to avenge her loss to Chantelle Cameron, but now is the time to revisit that. I don't know what Amanda's plans are early in 2024, but they got to figure that out because it's, Serrano Taylor to me is a much bigger fight than Taylor Cameron three. I just don't, I think

it's almost apples and orange at this point. Yeah, I mean, Serrano is the bigger fight. Serrano is the bigger star. Serrano will also bring, you know, you hate to insert, you know, Jake Paul in in every conversation about women's boxing here, but he will bring something to the table in terms of the promotion of that fight as well, and that will be an element. It creates a bigger event, but I mean, I'm happy with either of these fights happening next. I mean, these are, I mean, at least according to Ring Magazine, Serrano and Cameron, are two of the four best pound-for-pound women in the sport right now, and Taylor has wins over both of them. Like, she is an extraordinarily accomplished athlete, you know, a once-in-a-generation trailblazer for women's boxing, and

And I genuinely think she does want a rematch with both of these women. I think that she means it when she feels like she owes a rematch to Chantelle Cameron, you know, kind of for saving that event the first time, you know, for giving her the rematch the second time. And that's one of the things that's very unique and very beautiful about Katie and how she's approached the sport. I think that she really does see herself as kind of a servant to the industry of women's boxing and to the sport of boxing.

So I believe her when she says she wants that rematch, but I'm happy with either outcome. You know, one might be marginally bigger than the other, but I think that Katie on her own is going to be able to damn near Phil Croke Park, regardless of who's across the ring from her. Yeah, I think you're just running out of clock here on the Serrano fight. Both these women are in their mid, soon to be late 30s. You want that fight to take place while it's viable. now it feels like the time for that to happen. I mean, does Amanda Serrano like,

look, it was nice that you got those three minute rounds. Great. You know, that was a landmark moment for women's boxing. I personally think a fight against Amanda and Sky Nicholson is interesting. You know, Sky's built a nice little profile over the UK.

I think that's a reasonably competitive fight or at least a natural fight for Amanda Seron. But this is the big one, right? Like Amanda, like I know there's been some talk about Amanda moving up to fight Alicia Baumgart. Baumgart has got to figure her own stuff out first and get past these these drug allegations that are out there.

I think you've got to find a way to make that fight. That fight right now with Katie coming off a win with Amanda doing what she's doing. That fight is massive. Once again, I think you've got to find a way to ultimately make that fight happen, hopefully in Croke Park in 2024. All right, let's talk about the fight we've got this weekend. You got Ryan Garcia back, first fight back since his loss to Javante Davis. first fight as, you know, he's fought at 140 before, but this is a true junior welterweight fight.

He's now campaigning at 140 pounds. He's facing Oscar Duarte, who is 135 pounder on 11-fight winning streak. All 11 of those fights have come by knockout. I've heard some people say, Corey, that they are almost stunned that Ryan Garcia took this fight against Oscar DeWarte. They expected a much easier fight for Garcia coming back from, from the, the Jervante fight. What do you think? Is this, is this fight as dangerous as some have suggested, or are we giving Oscar Duarte too much credit? I think this is good matchmaking, and I think that Ryan Garcia is really benefiting from this narrative that it is a tougher matchup than it should be,

you know, from the conspiracy that Golden Boy is putting Duarte in there to beat him, that they want to get Garcia beat. Like, all of this, if the fight plays out the way I think it's going to play out, is just going to benefit Garcia. I think that the pendulum has kind of swung too far in the other direction. Whereas early in Garcia's career and even up to the Gervante Davis fight, there was always the, there was the allegation that he was matched too soft. Like, oh, he hasn't fought anyone yet, you know, because his popularity outpaced his achievements,

which is no fault of his own. That's good marketing. I mean, Garcia is popular for things other than being a boxer and outside of boxing. That's just the way that it was. But the reality is I think that Garcia's probably his fifth best win is better than Duarte's best win. And Duarte is a good fighter, but he's not nearly as accomplished as Garcia is. And I also think that the style matchup is excellent for Ryan. I think that when Garcia has struggled, it's been kind of in those between periods,

between, you know, as he's shifted with trainers, I don't think that the, the goose in partnership was ultimately ideal. And Garcia also has a little bit of trouble and get a little bit overanxious, as we saw against Tank Davis, although that's obviously a special beast that he was in there with on that night. When Garcia has to pursue someone, he can get a little bit sloppy. That's not going to happen in this fight. I mean, Duarte is the kind of opponent that Garcia feasts upon, which is someone that's going to come at him and wants to train. left hooks. And when you trade left hooks with Ryan Garcia, it's a very, very dangerous proposition. So I think that optically, this is a great looking matchup for Garcia, but I think

the reality of it is just very good matchmaking. I see a Garcia knockout in this fight. And because of the way that we're talking about this, it'll benefit him greatly on the back end. Like, oh, Garcia took this dangerous test coming off of Tank Davis. And, you know, is it more dangerous than he had to take? Yes. But I don't think that this is as big of a threat to Garcia as maybe people are thinking. Yeah, I think two things can be true. One, I think this is a more dangerous comeback fight than maybe we could have seen. Now, I think the runner up for this fight was Pedro Campa, who was most recently the comeback fight for Tafioma Lopez.

That is a comeback fight. You know, Pedro Campa is a guy that's been in with some good fighters, doesn't have a lot of quality wins and doesn't have fight changing power. That's the kind of guy you want to put your top fighter in with when they're trying to kind of begin the rebuilding process. But I do agree with you. Oscar Duarte is a really fun fighter,

but he's a guy that makes a lot of mistakes. And I know that because I've called a lot of his fights in the last few years. he comes in a little bit reckless he likes to kind of go to war with you and it's one thing to try to go to war with like Alex Martin and DiAngelo Keys it's another thing to do with Ryan Garcia

and because of that it just seems like he is almost a perfect fit to get hit with a left hook like one and maybe won't go down the way that Romero Duno went down or Francisco Fonseca went down but Ryan's still gonna have a lot of power

with that left hook and the hardest most dangerous punches out there are the ones you don't see. And I have a feeling that at some point, we're going to see Duarte walk into a big fight. That's why I never really believe the whole narrative about like, Golden Boy trying to get Ryan B. No, I think Golden Boy is trying to make Ryan look good here.

And yeah, there's some risk to it. But if he goes out and stops Duarte in like the fourth round, like puts him down with a big shot that winds up getting viewed 10 million times on social media, then Ryan can make the argument that like, I'm still the man out there. I'm the guy that did over a million pay-per-view-bys with Tank Davis. I'm the guy that's selling tickets.

I'm the guy that's doing ratings. I'm the guy that's getting these big-time knockouts. All you guys with titles, you're coming to me. I think that enhances Ryan Garcia's argument. That's why I think this is the right opponent. It is a dangerous opponent because, look, here's the facts. Ryan's coming off a loss, his first loss, a knockout loss. He's working with a new trainer, so there's going to be an adjustment period there.

So I don't want to diminish the danger. But while I acknowledge the danger, I do think this is a opponent that Ryan could look really, really good against if he's patient and does things the right way. I mean, I'm very curious to see what the Derek James imprint is going to be. Like I said, I went down to Dallas. We're going to hear from Ryan Garcia coming up in just a couple of minutes. I went down there. And look, Ryan is, he's living in a nice place, but it's not some luxury pad that he's living in. He doesn't really do anything.

He just kind of hangs out there, plays video games, and, you know, hangs with his family, his media family and others. And then goes to the gym. And so I think he's in the right headspace now to kind of begin this next chapter. One of the questions I have about Ryan is that, look, it's one thing to spend four months in Texas working out for a comeback fight. Are you ready to spend four years down there? Like, are you prepared to give up that LA lifestyle and all the things that came with it to just focus on boxing? Right now he is.

And I think that's going to yield some positive results. down the line, we'll see what happens. But I am, and I'm pretty enthusiastic about how Ryan Garcia is going to look when he comes back. Yeah, and I like the Derek James partnership, too. You know, when you look at the fighters that Derek James primarily works with and has molded over the years, there's one kind of commonality that you often see, which is that they are responsible power punchers. and I think that that is precisely what Garcia needs to be, you know, chiggled into. You know, we've seen flashes of that, you know, like, I thought, like, a really good version of Ryan Garcia was in that Luke Campbell fight.

You know, aside from that knockdown, you know, just, you know, he was jabbing a little bit more and he walked his opponent into the shot that he wanted. And he's going to have that opportunity against Warte. He'll also have the opportunity to get a little bit reckless. So I think that this is, not only is it a perfect opponent because I think he's going to win, but I think that it's a style that if Garcia hasn't made both the technical and mental adjustments, could put him in those dangerous scenarios where we'd see whether he's made those adjustments or not. But again, I think that this is just good matchmaking. And I think that the optics of this being a dangerous opponent,

that was also important for Garcia marketing-wise, too, because he spent the entirety of the buildup to the tank Davis fight talking about how, hey, fighters these days don't want to take risks. I'm willing to take them. I'm willing to take losses. I don't care. So it was important that the narrative around this fight be exactly what it is. So I think that, I mean, if this is Golden Boy trying to get Garcia beat,

I mean, they've done a masterful job of doing the opposite in terms of what they wanted to do, which is, you know, just make Garcia look good in terms of who he's chosen. And again, if this fight goes the way, I think it will. making them look good in the ring too. Look, if they were trying to get Ryan Garcia beat, what the hell are they doing signing O'Hara Davies? Like, Golda Boy doesn't do British shows. Like, why would they want O'Hara Davies on their roster?

Oh, yeah, I know why, because O'Hara Davies, you know, in a couple of days might wind up being the 140-pound champion. And Ryan's made it clear he wants to fight for a world title at some point in 2024. There you have. You might have a guy on your roster who is good but not great that you can put up against Ryan Garcia. I never bought the idea that Golda Boy was trying to get a beat to somehow manipulate his contract or lower his pay. That doesn't make any sense.

Not with a fighter like Ryan Garcia who is just, he transcends that. Like he's just bigger than that. He's a moneymaker for that company. I don't know why they would ever want to see him go down in a fight like that. All right. Corey will be back on Friday in Houston. Check it out. Where is that fight anyway?

I'm going, but I don't, what's the venue for that fight? Do we know? It's at the Owls now. A brand new facility. Yeah, a brand new facility in Houston, a 1,500 seat, very intimate venue, no bad seats in the house. You're going to enjoy it. If you're down there, if you're down in Houston for the Ryan Garcia, if I come a day early, get down to the Owls Nest. I'll be there.

Corey will be there. The Sam Ketkovsky spectacular, we're calling it down to the Owls Nest. Saturday I'll be back on DeZone for Ryan Garcia against Oscar Duarte. Part of the subscription, no pay-per-view for that fight. So that's great for fight fans out there as well. Corey, good stuff, man. and good luck this weekend. We'll see you in a day.

And when we come back, my conversation with Ryan Garcia. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversation. with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio, app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at It podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so... Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes, I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important. and years from black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. So recently, I flew down to Dallas, Texas, where Ryan Garcia has decamped in preparation for this fight.

His first training camp with Derek James, the notable trainer who works with Anthony Joshua, Errol Spence, Jermel Charlo, among others. And I had she had to spend some quality time, some good amount of time with Ryan Garcia. We got into a lot of topic. during our conversation. We talked about the loss to Gervante Davis,

why he felt he needed to leave L.A., which he described to me as a toxic situation, what he's gained from being in Dallas, and kind of what he hopes to accomplish as it begins this new chapter of his career. I thought it was a really good conversation with Ryan. Looking forward to everyone out there hearing it. So with no further ado, here's my conversation with Ryan Garcia.

Back in the ring, Back on the zone, new trainer, new weight class, new home here in Dallas, Texas. I'm feeling about everything. I'm feeling great. It's been a great change for me. I definitely feel more focused, more committed to the sport, more dedicated. It feels like the thing I needed. Why did you need it?

I think a year and a half layoffs and just all the time that I would take outside of the sport really didn't help. focus in boxing and I kind of lost like that that that's the supreme focus you need in boxing and that dedication and that commitment to the sport and you know this right here really showed me what it's like to go 100% again in focus in focus for boxing so this is exactly what I need to know in Dallas it's perfect you keep your focus and it's all training so you didn't make a subtle change you made radical change You moved, picked up your life and moved to Texas, made a change with your head coach.

When did you know that you needed to make such a radical change? Well, just the environment I was in, if you're in a toxic environment, it's just not going to work out for you. So it was just in my spirit to, you know, change things all the way. And I'll just let God guide me and he guided me to Dallas, Texas. And with a great trainer like Derek, and I could see my difference, you know, my focus and my commitment. And just things that I'm like, wow, you know, I should have been doing this a minute ago. But it is what it is. Sometimes you need to lose and sometimes you need to hit rock bottom to realize the changes you need to make.

And I think that's what's going to make me great and show people who I am is just how I bounce back. It's not easy to lose, but, you know, great champions come back. Toxic is a powerful word you use there. Why was it a toxic environment for you? It was toxic because L.A., you know, people want to be around famous people. There's a lot of distractions. Even the gym I was at, you know, it's kind of a celebrity gym in a way. And things weren't locked in like a training camp.

And in hindsight, looking back, it was like, wow, like being here and just being in just that full focus, there's a huge difference. I just, my dedication just wasn't there. It wasn't there and when you take those longs layoffs, you don't realize it because you think, you know, you're just going with emotions like, okay, I got, oh, I'll get ready for a fight, but it's not just a fight. It's everything. You need to put everything into boxing. You can't just, you know, think you're going to pick up some gloves and perform well. Don't work like that. You need to grind. So what's changed over the last eight months that you've been mostly here in Texas? Just my commitment and my dedication and my focus towards the sport in itself and being commended to Derek's training and what he wants me to do and giving my whole effort into boxing like I was in 2020 and the years that I was thriving, you know, before all the long layoffs. So I feel like that focus is that, a focus I haven't felt for a while. I'm like, okay, this feels nice.

Like finally, like I'm, I know what I'm doing in the ring again. Thank God. You know what I mean? It feels like that, especially when you put everything into it. I've always had the talent, but when you don't have the focus, it doesn't really matter. You spent years pushing for and calling for that Gervante Davis fight. I know it's not a simple question to answer, but what went wrong for you in that fight? I think a ton of things went wrong for me in that fight. I think the first one was the layoff of a year and some change.

I really wanted to fight him in October after Fortuna when I felt like my momentum was there. A lot of things killed that for me. And then my eagerness to fight them so bad messed me up because then I didn't take the tuna for Mercito. I didn't want to ruin the chances to fight them. And all the stipulations. I don't want to go back to that. Like I said, I signed it so it doesn't matter. But those really do have the effect on you.

I thought I could get around it, but no, fighting in that state is not fun. You don't have the energy and you can't do what you want to do. So a lot of things are wrong, but again, we're now focused on just becoming the champion. That big fight was great. It did really well, but now I want to become a champion, establish myself as a champion at 140 and build from there. And hopefully, you can run that back because I know I'm capable of beating them. in different service.

You've said that a lot, becoming a champion. You've emphasized that a lot over the last couple of months. That's not something I heard you emphasized before. Before it was you want big fights, but maybe for different reasons. What has changed that makes you want that championship now so bad? Well, I just had a plan in my head since I was coming into the professional rankings. I want everybody to know my name at first. I want people to see my talent, see what I could do, build a big fight.

fights and, you know, have spectacular events. And now, you know, I've been boxing since I was seven years old. I feel like I deserve to give myself a chance to become a champion. I've always, you know, I was the best in the amateurs. I won a lot of national titles and I feel like I'm seeking and I'm longing for a championship title now. I want to be able to see me like, okay, he's not only a superstar, but he's also a champion.

He also, you know, can't be the best. Like, okay, he's not just a kid that knows how to market himself. He's actually a person that took the sports series and became a champion and did it all, really. So I want to show people I could do it all. Like, if you want me to go full focus mode, you're about to see something different. When the days after your first loss, you hadn't lost as the amateur day. So it's been a long time since you've felt defeat. What did that feel like?

I mean, how did you handle that? It's disappointing because I didn't feel anything. I didn't feel not one moment of sadness. And people say it's because the money, but it wasn't because of the money. It was because I stopped caring about just winning in general. Like my competition edge was just not there. It was like, okay, I did the big fight. Great.

You know, I don't know what was missing. It was just me kind of fed up with all the shit I had to go through and just me not giving like a rat's ass about anything anymore. because me having to cut that way, it was actually really hard for me. And me not be able to gain the weight. Like, I was already pissed off. And I just, I was mad because nobody seemed to actually, like, really take that serious, like, part of my team. Like, nah, this is hurting me to make this weight.

They were just watching me, like, you got it, you got it. Like, I didn't have it. You know, so when I lost, it was just like, I don't give a shit. Like, I came in with a separated rib and all this stuff. And, you know, I was just like. yeah I don't I don't care but looking at it's like bro why didn't I care that's crazy like I should care and then a little later on me like a month later it was like oh shit like I did lose that happened and it kind of hit me and I was like I'm never gonna lose again I don't want to

lose again like I'm gonna I'm gonna erase the things I was doing you know I was not not being a professional I wasn't being a professional but like I said sometimes you gotta lose to realize I got to make it change your like it's not just not fun in games like this is a real sport you could get hurt you've said there you need to sharpen that edge to be more sharpen that competitive edge how has Derek influenced that just always man speaking truth to me and being like type of a like a mentor and and really talking to me like okay Ryan like remember you earn this like you're going to earn this every time you're going to get in the ring you know you're there because you

earned it and just speaking things like that to me and like he's always just giving me you know a life advice and just boxing advice and I'm like okay he's like always correcting me on my technique and and things that I need to work on so you know Derek just a really great trainer you know there for me when you chose Derek James unwanted it made a lot of sense he's an incredible trainer he's had a lot of success a lot of high profile guys one of the things I thought though was that one of the reasons you left Eddie Renoso was because you wanted more hands-on attention. You wanted to be the guy in a way to whatever trainer you were working with. Derek's got a lot of guys, a lot of high-level guys. You'd be one of those guys. Why was it different? Why is it different in this situation as opposed to

what you didn't like in the Canelo camp? Well, Derek has a, he scheduled himself. You know, he's the type of dude that he plans and schedules, so he gives guys the full time. And Derek's training, me every single time, every day at the exact same time from a certain time to when we end. So he has his stuff together. He's organized. So it's not really, I don't, I haven't experienced any like, oh, I got to train this guy first. Or what not. And, you know, looking back on it, I don't know if I left Eddie because of, you know,

oh, I got to be only one training. It wasn't really like, it wasn't for that reason. It was other things, you know. And, you know, now I feel like we got a better relationship to, I want to make that clear. Like me and Eddie and Connell, we're cool. Everything's good. I was just, again, mad about some certain thing. Patman to Jim, that was it.

But, you know, now it's good. You know, Derek has everything organized, ready to train at this certain time, and boom, it's clear. Did you give any thought at any point to going back to Eddie then? You know, the prodigal son returns to the gym? Yeah, no, there was discussions. It was discussions me going back with Eddie. But, you know, just things didn't work out. And, you know, I felt like Derek was the better fit for me on certain things.

But again, like Eddie, it was a thought. You know, he talked about the fight even about, you know, tank and what could have been done. So, like I said, we're on good terms and things are still good with us. What's it like to have so many guys that are high level in that gym? Is that a source of motivation? Is that push you even further than even pushed before having guys like Errol Spence Jr., Jamel Charlo, Anthony Joshua, Frank Martin in that gym on a regular basis? I think it's just fun seeing that there, to be honest.

Like, it's cool. It's like, oh, shit, you're here. But I think all that comes within yourself. You know, you could have a million people there. You could have Conno there. You could have the world. Cristiano Ronaldo, it don't matter. If it's not in you to want to push, you know, if you can't push without them being there,

you ain't going to push them when they're there. So for me, it's just, it's cool. I mean, it's great to see guys that are, you know, dedicated. But for me, it's all within me. If I'm not there, I'm not there. Is this, do you consider this your life now? Because, I mean, you've been doing it for about six months. Dirk James ain't moving to L.A.

Like, could you see yourself doing it for six years? I mean, do you see this as you're like? I see myself giving everything I have to boxing for as long as I can and then hitting them with the deuses. But I'm committed to, like, taking this as far as I can't, you know, and becoming a champion of how many times that's going to be and having great fights with great fighters. I've seen where that's going to go.

but I don't know how long that's going to last, but I'm here to do it, and I'm not going to let my life waste by without reaching my full potential. I'm still young, and I can do it, so. Do you think about the end, though? Sounds like it crosses your mind about how long you want to do it

and whether you want to do other things. As of right now, no. I mean, you're like, damn, I keep going to go through these hard-ass training camps. Sometimes, of course. It's hard. It's not easy to wake up and do the same thing every day and grind hard and avoid burning out

and then having to get back on the horse and go again. Like the training camp's the hard part. The fights is fun. But, you know, again, I know this is part of the game and I've committed. And, you know, I see myself doing this for as long as I can, as long as I can and doing great things in the sport

and then riding off in the sunset, whatever I'm going to do. I have no clue. You obviously never want to take a long time. But as you look back on it now, do you feel like you're a better fighter because of at least the experience of going through what you went through with Jervante? Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely now no media day is going to be able to compare to how big that was and and the electricity and so now I'm more I'm used to I'm going to be more you know experience if I have a huge fight like that again, which I will And you know I gained a lot of experience from it and I don't even care about it lost to be honest

So I'm going to come back. You know what I mean? And I think this is showing a great example to other fighters, like a loss, but watch what I do now. And they're going to see how successful I'm going to be even off a loss and it's going to change the whole dynamic of boxing. And I think it did. I think me even getting in there and risking it that early in my career, I think that did inspire other people to finally, you know, buckle up and fight. I think I did a good thing for the sport. And I think, you know, the time goes on, I'm like, yeah, that was the moment

shit changed, you know, that was like, that pit a stake in what it was before. And I think I'm going to continue to do that. I think I'm going to keep innovating in the sport, and they're going to be following my lead, you know, and I can see it, you know. I was doing social media now every boxer wants to do it. And then, you know, now I'm going to show them the blueprint on how to produce big fights. I think I'm going to be leading the way for a while. So Oscar Duarte

I told this before I was surprised When you picked him You know not to make it out like he's Muhammad Ali But I see a lot of guys coming off a challenging loss Taking much softer touches This to me is not a soft touch You could have taken on anybody you wanted Why did you pick Oscar Duarte

It was between two guys I trust my coaches His you know opinion on who I should fight So I send the guys that I could tension fight and he wanted Oscar Dorte. So that was basically what it was. Oscar Dorte, of course, he's a heavy puncher, but if you've been in boxing a long time, you should know how to fight your guys that hit hard. You're going to be guys that hit hard, and the guys that are fast, slow, come forward, back up. I can't be, you know, what I'm going to do. I want a world title,

but I can't beat, you know, Oscar Dorte, no disrespect. But if I want to do that, like, let's run it, you know. I think that the layoff wasn't that long from tank, so I still feel right there. I'm not discouraged from the law so it's not going to affect me it's going to be a tough fight don't get me wrong got to be extra cautious but I think I well actually I know I'm ready

you know a lot of people would look at the weight and say I weighed 136 last time 140 what's the big deal what is the big deal what's the difference with you between 136 and 140 I just think that people that say that it's not educated on the sport

you know those last pounds can kill you literally because you're already killing yourself to get there. So those extra pounds are just like it's just a relief for your body. And on top of it, you know, look it you could have fight with 12 ounce gloves or 8 ounce gloves. Oh, it's only four ounces. Now you tell a fighter what's the difference? It's just if you know, you know, I don't, you know, I don't want to explain it. Like, you know, you know, you know. If you're a wrestler and you cut the weight before, you'll relate. And then on top of it, if you're not able to rehydrate the way you want, that's even worse.

Like, that's like a huge disadvantage. Like, I don't care what nobody says. Like, that's crazy. Does the, you're still weeks away from the fight, but does the training feel different, not having to have 135 as the target? Yes, it's a relief. Like, I could focus on my skills.

I'm not even tripping about my weight. Like, I'm cool. You know, it's been a huge relief. And I felt like I was fighting good at 140. Like, for tuna, like I feel. I felt like my mind was there, I was sharp, I could take the punches. I mean, I guess Fortuna was like a true 140, but, you know, I felt better, regardless of whoever the opponent was, I always felt better, like, that weight class, I was like sharper

and I felt more, you know, conscious. So I think you're gonna see a great performance for me. Does this feel like a new chapter for you? Yeah, yeah, if it was like a book, it was like chapter this, yeah. You've got a few chapters already. Yeah, it was like a little. fun chapter in the beginning and then now we're in a new one yeah I think that you're gonna see a another rise of mine you know just another great trajectory like

damn Ryan's back it's gonna go it's gonna be fire gonna be a fun ride you know the spectacular winds is gonna have you know another hurrah you know what I mean boom we're gonna we're gonna build it up again I feel it I know it December is the start of a massive month of fights on the zone which includes Bam Rodriguez, Sonny Edwards, Jake Paul is going to be back on DeZone. And your good friend Devin Haney, you've got a long history with. You want titles, you said. The winner of Devin Haney, Regis Pro Gray, will have a title.

How closely are you watching that fight when it comes to a future opponent for yourself? I'm going to be watching that real close. Devin Haney's been on the list of future opponents for a while. He's been doing really good. Regis is also a great fighter. So I'll be looking at it. I want the world titles. So, you know, I'll be, you know, I have a little long history with Devon.

It's been boiling up for a minute. And I think that people want to see that. So I'll be looking forward to it. How many times in the amateurs? You fought six times. Six times. Three and three. Okay.

So. Three and three. But, you know, when I fought him, I cracked him. He fought me, you know, points, you know, little points. I was banging on them. I was hard to him. Now, like, I remember when he got in the ring after you beat Fonseca and Anaheim. That was fun.

It didn't, it was fun. It just didn't feel like the right time for that fight then. No. You know, you get through December, now starting to feel pretty right with you guys. It is. It is. I think, you know, realistically, I think that I'm going to have some great performances and maybe in two fights, you know, three fights.

I think that we're going to run a big one. I think I need to do my part on an exploding. in the 140 division. So I got some work to do. You know, he's been doing his thing. But I'm going to, you know, have those performances again and do what I do. And then we can run it, you know, for a big one. You know, I got to be smart, too. I got to be real realistic. You know, I'm not going to just go to Dwarate right to Devon. It doesn't make sense. You know, I think I need to establish myself. Like, you know, this guy's for real at 140. Like, be careful, you know, so that's what I'm going to do. Right. Welcome back. Thank you. You're the best.

Sir. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Corey Erdman and Ryan Garcia for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you download podcast. And I'll see you next week. Thank you so much. I go sleep. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite.

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