The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Ade Oladipo and Jake Paul stop by

Episode Date: July 15, 2022

Chris is joined in LA by Ade Oladipo, who is part of the broadcast team that will be calling Ryan Garcia - Javier Fortuna. Ade breaks down that fight and what we can and should expect from Garcia. They also dive into the latest with Jake Paul and if he wins his upcoming fight, who should he consider fighting next. Later, Jake Paul sits down with Chris to talk about his upcoming fight with Hasim Rahman Jr., and if he wins that, Chris has an idea of what former champion he should look to get in the ring with next. #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Manix. All right, we are in Los Angeles, Ryan Garcia, Javier Fortuna, lightweight fight, big event at crypto.com arena, previously known as Staples Center. We change things. Change names all the time here in the U.S.,

depending on who will fork over a check. Joining me this week is a man as part of the broadcast team. Ade Oladipo, DeZone Broadcaster. And this may be, this is your first time on the podcast. Yeah. It may be your. your last time on the podcast because, like, will you be welcome back

in the UK having done Chris Manix's podcast? No, no, no. It's a simple answer. No, no, no. Literally, they will stop me at Heathrow Airport and take my passport back and probably send me to Nigeria. For doing this with you. I am banned from all the boxing boxing sort of purist in the UK. By the way,

can we go back to that crypto.com arena. I can't stand it. I don't know if on the broadcast, I'm allowed to say the Staples Center, but I... No, you can't go Staples. No, you can't go Staples Center. Lisa, I've been told then. They're trying to make it the crypt at some point. Oh, really?

But that's a little creepy, too. Yeah, it sounds like a horror movie in the 80s or 90s. Although I will say this, like, you know, because I covered this at the time, I did a lot of basketball games and fights at Staple Center. And, like, people in L.A. were so, like, they were so upset over the change of name. And I'm like, okay, I get that crypto.com arena is weird. But you're getting upset over a building that was named after an office. supply store. Can we be clear on like what staples is? And you don't have to call it the crypto. Yeah. Like you just can call it the staples. Yeah. In in football, obviously, um, Barcelona's new camp is now,

what is it, the, um, Spotify new camp. Yeah. And everyone went mad about that. And I was like, well, you can just keep calling it to camp new. You don't really have to call it Spotify. We do as broadcasters, but you guys certainly don't have to. Yeah. Eventually you get used to everything, right? Like I remember, you know, being in, in Boston, Massachusetts, it's like, The Boston Garden went away in the late 1990s, and it became the Fleet Center. Everybody was like, we're not calling at that. Boston Gardens are 50 years.

And, like, after a year, we called the Fleet Center. Like, it's just people, their attention spans are like, nuts. You get upset about things. We as people now get upset about everything. Yes. That's we are angry human beings. Yes.

As I know, I know from social media. Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, that's the UK fans. Like, don't retweet this podcast when it comes out. Like, don't know anything. I, honestly, Chris, if I was rich enough and I didn't need it, I would probably delete it. I would too.

I say it all the time. It's just horrible. It's a work tool at this point. That's what it is. And I tell people that as well. You can follow me on it, but it's a work tool. You don't expect me to put my personal life on it.

I will just tweet about boxing and football and anything else that comes to mind. But that's it. You don't tweet about, you don't tweet about like Boris Johnson and your thoughts on. You know, there's sometimes where I want to press tweet

and they're like, is that a canceled tweet? Am I going to be banned? No upside to it. No upside to tweeting. There's nothing to it. Like someone asked me, Addy, what's your opinion on the vaccination?

I was like, dude. What are we doing? You want to meet me in the pub for that conversation? We can do it, but I'm not going to tweet about it. We don't need to do it on social media. But glad you're here. Glad you're doing the show this weekend here in Los Angeles. We're going to get to Garcia against Fortuna.

But I don't look back to a show you were at last week. Derek Chisora, he picks up a career continuing win over Kubra-up. I guess I shouldn't say that because Chasora might have kept going anyway. He's just keeps plowing on through. But he gets the win over Pulev. Did you think he won? I thought he won. I thought he won.

I tried not to score it because I bet on it at the time. Listen, he was a six to one underdog by decision. I knew he was never going to knock Pulev out. But he was a six to one underdog by decision in the U.S., and I'm like, that's way too high. That's too high. Pulev beat a fat Jerry Forrest in his last time out. He's just as washed.

Yeah, he's doing triad stuff. That was just great. So I bet it. So I didn't want to score because I'd be. But look, it was close enough that I'm like, you know, when I heard the final score. like they made some sense. What did I mean, it was, it was a slob knocker to use a favorite phrase.

It wasn't a great fight. Yeah. We're brutally honest. I don't know. It just looked like two old men, like really old, like stiff and old. Like, I thought we might see a bit of Pulev. And maybe he convinced me because of all the sort of the midweek antics. I was like, okay, Poolev looked like he might be in shape and strong.

I interviewed him and I can kind of see as he walks that he's just stiff. and, you know, probably needs, like, four Russian ladies to massage him at the same time or something. But I don't know. It wasn't a great match. I actually thought that Poulin might have nicked it, but I wasn't disappointed with Chazora getting one. I remember against Hellenius years back when I thought he won the European.

I was there for that. Yeah, I was doing the epics had the broadcast rights in the U.S. And he beat Heleneas. There you go. There you go. And I thought you maybe beat Dillion White the first time rounds. I thought he deserves one. Like, give him one.

And I think you're right. It's a continuing fight for him. I think Eddie Hearn mentioned, and I don't know how much you can believe into what Eddie Hewn says that if he did lose, then there's a question to be asked about retirement. But he will just go into another broadcaster anyway and continue fighting. But I think it's important that he beat Pulev to then keep the same paycheck level. So next time round, he's probably going to get the same amount of money. How would you put into context his popularity?

Like, what would you say about kind of the draw that he is still in the UK? What is, what kind of fan base does he have? Not as big as it used to be. I mean, I kind of walked into the arena thinking, okay, is this going to do 12 to 14,000 in here? And I know that might not be an indication. I think it was 8 or 9,000. It wasn't the greatest undercard.

Things started falling apart. So that was kind of my thinking, okay, he's still popular, but the fact is he hadn't won in three years. So you could only keep sort of flogging that horse. And I know it was Ussick and Parker he lost to, but you've still got a win. So it's still there, but now you think there's only a couple of fights

that they can make where it does do decent numbers for the zone or in a small arena. So it's not what it was four or five years ago, but it's still somewhat. Still, I mean, if you can sell 9,000 tickets, it's still pretty good. Yeah, I mean, even in the U.S., not many guys can sell 9,000 tickets.

So that's impressive and certainly keeps him going. What should his next fight be? Because he's out there calling for Deonté Wilder. And that's, look, catching Wilder at this stage might be more competitive than it would have been three years ago, but I don't want to see Derek Chesora flat on his back you know after taking a massive right hand and it would be that that was what it would be because he can't he doesn't have the power at this point to stop dante wilder so he doesn't even have the defensive abilities no no and dionte wilde i mean you know he telegraphs that right hand but it's still land he's still land on fury who's got you know the lateral movement it can certainly land on chazora i mean for me it's probably dillium white free yeah is that still a marketable fight yeah yeah because they're both crazy so so even if the boxing ability won't sell it the fact that the press conference will sell it and all the building and all the building

up will sell it. Those guys, I don't want to say hate each other, but there's a dislike when in the room with each other. You can sort of sense the energy. So that will still sell, especially because White's coming off that knockout defeat. So he stocks dropped a bit. Chazora's maybe stayed the same. So people look at it as quite a competitive fight. Obviously, there was some talk about Heleneas, but it looks like Wilder might get that one. Yeah. Potentially Calnacki. That would be a not, that. Heleneas, not bad because Alanis, even though he beat Kovnazki twice, he's kind of washed. Like, he should be on the washed circuit.

Like the guys that are... And there's no for them being in that. No, because you can make some money. Competitive fights. Interesting fights. Keep your career going for a little bit. Heleneas makes sense. Kovnaski, if he wins this fight coming up on July 30,

that might make some sense as well. I mean, I don't know if Derek wants to fight in the U.S., but like, there's... In New York, Kovnazky draws a huge crowd. The Polish community comes out for him. But you could do that in the UK or anywhere else for that matter. Yeah, you could do a huge, huge number. And everybody can make a bunch of money on that.

I think they wanted that fight. Yeah. I think they looked at that. Just because of what you said, Lawrence O'Coli fought in February against a Polish guy whose name skips my mind now, and it was 80% Polish in there.

So I think Eddie Huns, obviously, smart, he probably looks at thinking Chazora brings the Brits, Kanaki can bring the Polish, it can do good numbers. So I think that fight makes sense. And then you maybe look at the loser of Ruiz Ortiz about being disrespectful

to Chazora. I don't think he's going to get the winner. This is the wrong time, I guess, to retire as a heavyweight. Yeah. There's money out there. You know, even sort of Joe Joyce, Bikoli type fights.

There's always money on the, table. Yeah, unless, I wouldn't want to see him with Joe Joyce. Joe Joyce might hurt him too. But the older circuit, that makes a lot of sense. One more question about the UK scene. Tyson Fury keeps talking about that he's done. He's like every time he does an interview, it's like, I think the most recent one

that I heard was him talking about. I've got lumps in the back of my head. Everybody wants me to keep fighting, keep doing this. What's your take on Fury? Like, is this just bluster until we get through Joshua Usick and then we see Fury back in the ring? or do you get any sense there's real teeth to this that Tyson Fury could really be done?

No, no chance. He's certainly not done. I look at him. There's almost two different people. I've interviewed Tyson Fury so many times, and when you interview him, sort of away from the media and there's not much sort of cameras, I feel like you get a genuine, honest Tyson Fury

that opens up about anything. Once the cameras were on him, he's a WWE gimmick. He will say anything can lie. Like, honestly, if Tyson Fury said it was raining outside, I'd open the curtains to check. There'd be no belief. from me whatsoever.

He will continue fighting just because he, as he says, he's a fighting man. That's what he says. And now, finally, he's getting paid big, big money to fight. You think when he beat Vladimir Klitsko, he didn't get big money for that, didn't get big money at all, and the fight's leading up to it. Now with the wild of fights and Dillian White

and potentially A.J. Usook, like there's no way, if Anthony Joshua wins and we'll probably get onto AJ, it's a big if, there's no way he doesn't make sort of north of 75 million for that fight. And it sells out Wembley Stadium, wherever in seconds. There's no way he's not coming back

for that. It's impossible. Ussick's another discussion. Maybe he just doesn't fancy the Usook fight, but A.J., someone that he's been sort of goading for years, someone that he thinks he can knock out easily, he'll take that fight. It's a massive, massive British fight. The biggest British fight of all time by far. Yeah, I think he'd be eager for A.J. I think he'd do Usoc as well because I don't think Usoc presents a...

Usik might beat him theoretically, but he's not the physical challenge. He's not going to get beat up fighting Alexander Osir. He's going to, it'll be a clinical boxing match, a sparring session. And look, if he loses, he loses, but he'd make $40 million, whatever would be, and it would be a paycheck. He'd probably beats Usaic, because he's just so much bigger and he's a skilled guy.

And I think he wins that fight at heavy. But we're on the same page. I don't think he's done. Even though every time he does an interview. Well, he does these interviews, and then he's posting Instagram videos in the gym. Like, what are you still working out like five days a week for? You know what you're doing. I feel like it's almost the case of I am retired and if he want me back, you're going to have to pay me

so much money, but that's not true. But look, regardless, even if he just said he isn't retired, he'll still get paid a lot of money. And if you are retired, relinquish a WBC belt and let Joe Joyce fight Deonté Wildford. Let those two juggernauts get in the ring. So yeah, he's certainly not retired. And I actually don't want him to retire. I think he's entertaining for the sport. Boxing's in a good place, but it still doesn't have that many characters right now, like it did in the 90s. I think he's a character that the sport needs. He's fantastic. When he gets on the mic, there's not many boxes that

can just go off on a tangent like he does. I think he's fantastic for the sport. So I want him around for a couple more years. That's the key to, I mean, like, when he relinquishes that belt, then we'll know he's retired. That's what people are always like, why do you take him off a pound for poundless? Well, he's not retired. Nobody believes you're retired.

Give up the belt, and then I'll believe you're actually retired. You know as well, Chris, sorry to cut a crush. I think when he fought Dillium White, Because when I spoke to him, I said, are you surprised that you've sold Wembley out in an hour, two hours? Like there was 150,000 people waiting for tickets. And I think he'd done like, 92,000.

And he was like, yeah, I'm surprised. I never thought I could do this without Anthony Joshua. So I think the penny dropped where he thought, I actually am a star in the UK. Obviously, he's been fighting in the US for the last four years. So I think that opened his eyes to like, wow, wait a minute, we've made it. And I don't think you retire when you're on top like that. I don't think so.

Boxing, unfortunately, normally retires. The boxers, boxers don't retire from boxing. Yeah. So we're about a month away from Joshua against Dusick. What's your feeling on that fight right now? Like, what's your level of confidence that AJ can win? And what happens to him if he doesn't win?

Fear. If I'm honestly, I'm a big AJ fan. I want to say I know him personally, but we'll meet each other. There's a conversation, a cup of tea. And I've probably got two hats here. My AJ hat says I think AJ can do it. Right?

I mean, you know, AJ's probably the third best heavyweight. Uc's the second. It's not that crazy to think the third can beat the second. But having seen Ucic at the recent press conference in London, you just have a guy that is so confident, it's scary. He came in whistling, he done a little twirl before he sat down. And normally I'm like, ah, he's just faking it. He's a bit nervous.

I looked in that man's eyes, and there is no fear from him whatsoever. And now he's a big heavyweight. The size difference between him and AJ isn't as big as people think. This is not Fury Wilder or Fury Usik. There's maybe a stone in a little bit. This isn't a David versus Goliath thing. This might just come down to a boxing match. And if it does, Ucic's obviously the better boxer, by far.

And I don't know if Robert Garcia has enough time to kind of mentally get into Aege's head saying, look, you're a wrecker machine. You're a big 18 stone guy. Use some of that power. I don't know if it's enough time. Did you agree with the addition of Robert Garcia? Do you think that was a prudent move? I thought so.

I felt that maybe his time of Rob McCracken probably ended after the first Ruiz fight and sometimes you have to make those difficult decisions I mean as a boxer get in the ring you're going to get hurt and forget friendships for a second this is a dangerous sport

I just think him with Robert Garcia should have been done earlier I think AJ should be out in in California with Garcia in his own gym I've discussed that many times I don't understand why are you staying why are you staying in Luffrae he's in the youth and I'm like

go to Riverside and no one knows you in a America, AJ? Nobody knows. No one would. Don't think AJ's an NFL player. 100%. The middle linebacker for the Rams.

That's it. There's no idea. Is that that? Nah. That's it. He's not going to get bothered. You know, he can have the best Robert Garcia because, look, you want the best version of Robert Garcia.

That will be in his home gym. You know, he knows these bag, he's gloves, these people, the smell. So I don't understand AJ flying him out. It doesn't make sense to me. And yeah, we'll say, look, could that be the reason he gets beat? No, ultimately, it's just Usek. But it's small percentages. and that's a small percent.

Yeah, I'm fascinated. But like in the hypothetically loses, what do you think it happens to him? 32 years old, coming off three losses in the last five fights. That's a big number. Big number. It's a big number. It probably goes from arenas to stadiums.

You know what I mean? Sorry, from stadiums to arena. Does his popularity weighing considerably if he loses to Usik? No, because his popularity is built up on casual boxing fans that are in and out of the sport. I think the hard cores have already come. kind of dismissed him. Like, yeah, he's never going to beat Furio.

I think the casual fans don't actually quite understand what's going on. If I'm honest with you, I have no idea who this Uxick guy is. And he still does a huge amount of business. Like, again, at that press conference for him versus Ucic, I don't think I've ever seen as much media. And I was like, okay, AJ business is still big business. Obviously, DeZone will hope he wins. He signed this mega, what's $100 million a year?

So they're hoping he wins, but I don't know, man. I think he still wants to be in the boxing game. I just think mentally he needs to almost have that Rocky moment where, you know, Apollo. Remember Apollo Creed smashing up Rocky and he's like, hit back, hit back. And AJ needs to have someone just to tell him whatever you're doing right now isn't working. Let's kind of press the reset button.

Do you get the sense, and you've known him for a long time, and I've always wondered this. Does he love boxing? Like Tyson Fury loves boxing. He grew up a fighting man, as he often says, since a young childbirth. AJ in a way, if I can make a U.S. comparison, reminds me a little about Mikey Garcia. Like he was in boxing because he was really good at it.

And it just sort of escalated from there. Mikey never loved the sport. Not certainly not as much as his brother does and other family members do. Like the reason I wonder about AJ's future is like does he have the passion and the drive to rebuild after that? To fight and Adam Kovnoski in, you know, and then fight a Robert Hellenius and these lower to your guys to get him back to that level over the course of a year, year and a half. It's a good question. It is.

I think AJ came into the sport late, obviously. He got success very early, which can make you feel like it's easy, right? A world championship silver medal, an Olympic gold medal. And that must make you think, wow, I've only been doing this for a year, and I've already got that success. And then he'd sort of dominated the British and European scene. And then he hit a couple of stumbling blocks. I think the first one was Dillian White.

And I remember that fight, where Dillon White really, really. hurt him in that fight. And maybe a better Dillion White or more experienced than White would have got the job done. But then he kept on getting success. And I don't know whether or not he's hit that roadblock now. And it's like, damn, I'm not that good of boxers, these other guys. And can I add those boxing skills to my arsenal?

And the simple answer is he probably can't. At 32, he can't get what Fury's got and get what Ussick's got. So ultimately, his legacy might come down to the fact he never beat those two. But I still think there are so much more work he can do. those two I think AJ would love to fight the guys you just mentioned I just wonder if team AJ would I don't know if they would look at those fights and think that's not big enough fights that there's not enough money on the table everything comes down to money now with AJ but I think AJ the guy I know loves

these boxing and understands the history of the sport and ultimately wants to get better I just feel like the people around him almost just hold him back a little bit really yeah I think so I I thought it was a perfect opportunity what was going on in Ukraine with Usik, I thought there was a perfect opportunity to have a fight in February against someone. Get that confidence, get those cobwebs, knock someone out. I'm not trying to talk about a killer here,

but just get someone within the top 20 and just have a fight. But the idea of making an AJ fight, almost a bit like a canelo, isn't that easy. Whereas AJ would have wanted to fight O2 Arena, 15,000 people. Someone's like, no, no, it's got to be the biggest thing in the world.

It's a good point, yeah. They want to maximize his revenue every time when maybe that's not in his best. interest. No, no, absolutely not. I mean, even look at Canello, I mean, there's still been an Avenue in there and a rocky fielding in there. You know, it didn't really have to.

I mean, obviously, you understand why he took both of those fights, but there's been a couple of gimmies, and then there's been hard, hard fights. And AJ could have happened a couple of gimmies in there, but it's always difficult, the most money, difficult, the most money. And I just don't think that helps his progress. Yeah, that's a good point. I'm just curious to see what happens. You know, hopefully he wins and he's able to avenge his loss for the second time.

But he's been shaped by his experiences too. Everybody keeps talking about how he has to go to war in this fight. I don't know if he has it in him. Because, like, you remember after the Klitsko fight, which was his signature moment, getting off the deck and knocking out Vladimir Klitsko, he was like, I never want to do that again. I don't want to fight like that.

And then Ruiz just batters him, puts him down and beats him up for four more rounds, whatever it was, and he fights a more tactical fight in the rematch. I don't know if he has brawler in him in a fight like this. I think everyone looks at him physically and assumes, oh, look at the size of it. Look at his muscles.

But do you think before the Klitsko fight, I think, like, he went to war with Dillion White to get him knock him out. He went and battled him. He, you know, go back to Povetkin. He went to war with him to put him down. I think there was a mindset that changed in him after the Klitsko fight. When he got knocked down and he's like,

I don't want to do that again. I want to be more of a boxer than a brawler. And that's fine, but against Usik, you can't outbox him. He's not going to outbox him. No, no, he's not. I actually think it was the Ruiz fight that shocked him. Obviously, you've got this guy there. Let's be honest, I mean, you've got one that looks like,

sort of carved out of stone and the other one doesn't. Yeah, Greek God versus Jello. Yeah, basically, yeah. And I think that surprised him. Like, okay, let's have a little war with this kid and I got beat up by that kid. And ever since then, we just haven't seen the sort of attacking AJ. We didn't see it against Pulev at all, if I'm honest of you.

We certainly didn't see it in a Ruiz second fight where, I mean, he had to lose. He lost like a stone. He was so focused on being a boxer against Ruiz. He came, it was unrecognizable. He's physique in the ring. We certainly didn't see it against Ussik. I don't know if he's got what, and I wish he could have what Deonti Wilder

and Derek Chazora have where we're going to war. Like, Deonti Wilder, I mean, the way Deonti Wada got beat up second time round against Fury, there's no way on earth you should want the third fight. Why would I want that again? He was like, let's go. I put a bit of muscle on, let's go, and he was a couple of seconds away from getting the win.

I don't think AJ has that in him. I don't think he just don't think, I think we've got it or you haven't got it, and I don't think he has it. But he's going to have to have it to go through Usik, because this can't be a boxing match again. It's just not going to work. He's going to have to think that I'm going to get hurt,

but I've got to somehow get mine to get, you know, I'm going to receive some, but I've got to able to take some as well. Yeah. To your point, this is not, Ousick is not Andy Ruiz. He's coming in in the best of shape. He's going to be sharp. He's going to have a good game plan. He's going to be relaxed.

He's going to be ready to go. He's fighting for his country. Yeah. You know what I mean? This guy is now, there's a lot of red flags around this fight. Honestly, it's, again, as an AJ fan, it's scary. Honestly, I look at him. And I just don't see any...

I know some people have him as their pound for power number one, and I just don't see any weaknesses, obvious weaknesses with Usik. No. He's such a good boxer. He's almost a bit, obviously, the Loma connection. He can understand he's going through the gears in his head. Whereas I don't know if AJ actually has that skill set.

And he was a different fighter than the one that fought Derek Chesora in his previous fight. Like he grew into a heavyweight in that fight, which was the question I had coming in. Like, well, if he's the same guy, that fought Chisora. Well, AJ can get to him. Chesore almost got to him in the first few rounds. He was chasing him around the ring,

then as typical Chisor, he ran out of the gas in the second half of the fight. But if he had been able to maintain that pace, he might have given Ussick some problems there. And that's why I think a lot of people thought AJ was going to win. But Usoc just was a changed man. He's not going to regret.

Osset nearly stopped, AJ. Yeah. That fight goes on another... 12th round. Yeah, it goes on another 30 seconds. I know people like to say, well, it didn't go on. If it did, there's a big problem there.

Yeah. There's a problem. And I think Robert Garcia is a fantastic trainer. His fighters only fight one way. I don't know, though. Who is running that corner? Is Robert Angel Fernandez? No idea.

If you want to get rid of everyone, get rid of everyone. Yes. The idea of keeping Angel Fernandez has been part of the downfall, if I'm honest of you. I don't understand the idea of keeping him on. And if I'm Robert Garcia... Who's a very different type of trainer than Robert Garcia? Cuban kind of trained back in the day. If I'm Robert Garcia, I'm thinking, it's not my team.

You want me. If you're hiring me, you're hiring the whole team. You can't just hire me. You're bringing my son in. You're bringing in the family members there. It makes absolutely no sense. And when I asked AJ about this, I was like, you know, obviously it must have been a difficult decision to get rid of Rob.

It's like, you know what? Rob can come back whenever he wants. And I was like, what do you mean? I was like, honestly, what do you mean he can come back? Is he fired or not? I don't understand. Are you still asking him for advice? I don't get it.

And another thing AJ does as well, which I'm not a fan of. He goes to his amateur setup, Finch. boxing club and he gets a bit of information from that trainer as well and then he goes to at the time he used to go to rob mccracken in sheffield so it's almost like you're hearing from that trainer then rob mccracken then angel fernandez there's just too many cooks in the kitchen in it look and it's not the same thing but i vividly remember being in saudi arabia for the ruis rematch and the night before the fight in these settings you know you can fighters walk around there's only like a handful of people there It's not the huge crowd.

So I cross AJ in the courtyard. He's walking there. And he's like, hey, man. I'm like, what's going on? He's like, let me ask something. How do you think I should fight this guy tomorrow? He's asking me. He probably just dismissed whatever I said to him.

I probably fumbled over and I'm thinking like, what the hell is he asking people? But like he's asking the question. He's still seeking information a day 24, 36 hours before the fight happened, which is kind of wild. He did that on the ring to Usik. I mean, he got on the apron and he asked, I can't remember it was. I think it's Clifford, Mitchard Mitchell. I'm sure I think I'm apologies if I've got his name correct and he's asking him advice on the apron and I'm like there's too much going on I think Tony Bellew said mentally AJ needs to kind of just

that's where he's struggling right now and I think you've trying to just alluded it to there I think there's a lot going on between the years and the eyes that he needs to sort out yeah no question all right we are here in los angeles for Ryan Garcia against Javier fortuna uh Ryan kind of sees this fight as a restart to his career he it was a year year ago, he was scheduled to face Fortuna. He had to back out due to some mental health issues. He had missed some more time with the hand injury. He came back. Just a couple

of months ago in April, faced Emmanuel Tago, went the 12-round distance for a first time. Let's go back to that fight against Tago. What were your takeaways from Garcia v. Tago? I always almost give him a pass, just because again, a long time out of the ring

since Luke Campbell. That's a long, long time. That's a ridiculous long time. New trainer set up. And I always feel like it takes, it must take four or five camps to get in sync with your trainer, where you can almost still see him trying to do stuff that he's learned with Renoso, and also trying to do stuff now that Goosen showed him. So you almost see that he's in two different minds as to what to do. And then you have an opponent in Tegro that didn't really come to win.

Didn't come to win at all. I mean, he came for a paycheck, and that was it. Talked a big game and ran around the ring. Run around the ring. And, you know, if you're Ryan, you just look for positives. And the positives are, okay, I went the distance for the first time, went 12 rounds for the first time. The gas tank looked like it was okay.

I didn't get hurt. The hand injuries are fine, and we move on. But ultimately, expectations for Ryan are so big, but that's just not enough. You know, when your peers are going to Australia and fighting for undisputed and Teofima Lupus, I had that fight with Loma and Giovante's doing what he does, you can't go 12 with Emmanuel Tago.

It looks bad on you. That's why he needs a very, very solid performance against Fortuna, or he just slips behind what was supposedly the Four Kings. He slips behind them. So it needs a good performance. Yeah, I give him a pass two for that first fight, off for 15 months. Wow. Coming off a hand injury with a new trainer in your corner, a new voice.

You're not going to be at your absolute best. I was talking to Joe Gousson this week. He said one of the things you got to remember about that last fight is that, look, the hand was healthy, but the left hand. But he didn't have the same level of confidence in going into that fight as he does now. Like he was still like, all right, is this going to work? Is this going to work? And then he starts throwing in his fine. he's like you're going to see that left hand be much more of a factor in this fight.

I think Fortuna, look, is a tricky fighter. He's a south paw, but he's going to come to fight, presumably. And if he's coming in, and Fortuna has a tendency, and Sergio Moore brought this up in one of our conversations, Fortuna is vulnerable in exchanges, and that's where Ryan thrives. If you come into him and try to exchange a little bit, he's so quick and he's so powerful, he's going to catch you at some point. So that's how I kind of see how this fight going.

Fortuna might have some moments, but Ryan, you know, this is a guy that Ryan should be able to stop, and we'll have plenty of opportunities, I think, over these rounds to stop him. Yeah, and that will be a statement in stopping Fortuna. I mean, you look at Fortuna's losses. I think Sosa stopped him. Yeah. I think that's the only one, so it'll be a statement. I know some people still look at him as the much smaller guy because we'll see it at the way and he physically is a lot smaller.

Ryan's, I don't know how long Ryan can start 135 pounds for. He's like he's getting bigger and bigger every single day. But I want his punch output to be a lot better. it wasn't against Tago and that could be because of the hand injuries as you said so maybe a bit cautious to throw the jab but Ryan just needs to look

like the Ryan against Luke Campbell minus the knockdown where he was fast Did you think in that Campbell fight did you think we were looking at a star after he beat Campbell? 100% yeah because Luke Campbell

I like Luke Campbell Very good fighter very very good fight he watches against Loma Lanares which arguably might have got the W in that one Olympic gold medalist he can fight Yeah.

He was a big, big, lightweight as well, Southpaw. So he came with his own problems. And for Ryan to get up off the canvas and stop him, that's a statement win that then should take you to those Devin Haney, T. Fima Lopez conversations. And the fact that we've almost hit the pause button since then is disappointing. But he's only, what, 23, 24, Ryan? Yeah. He's a baby, really.

But boxing fans don't care about that. No. You're in a hot division and they want to see you in big, big fights. So not to overlook Fortuna because it's a tough fight, and Ryan's going to have to look good to keep pace with all the guys we talk about. But in the immediate aftermath of this fight, if Ryan wins, we'll be talking about Ryan Garcia against Tank Davis. That is the biggest fight, with all due respect to the title holders at 135,

but the biggest fight at lightweight. And I'd make an argument, it's a top five fight in boxing right now. Yeah, yeah. two young, powerful, marketable guys, they would do a five to ten, maybe more million-dollar gate in the U.S. They do north of 500,000 pay-per-views. The revenue would be huge. The question is going to be, is Ryan ready for that fight? Putting the politics of making that fight aside, which are troublesome in and of themselves. But does Ryan need to show something for you in this fight to make you believe he's ready, or because of Luke Campbell, do you already think he is ready?

Good question. He needs to show me something. He needs to. I know he's got 18 knockouts from his 22 wins, so we know the power was there, but, I mean, let's be honest, sort of 14 of those knockouts, you can just throw away

because you're fighting guys that you're supposed to knock out. I don't know, man. You look at Tank, and as much as Tank's got this sort of killer punch, he can get touched. He gets touched a lot, Tank. I mean, if Rolanda Romero can hit you,

Ryan Garcia can hit you. Every fight he's had, Barry Os, Leo Santa Cruz, they've all been able to hit him. And do they hit as hard as Ryan Garcia? Are they as fast as Ryan Garcia? I guess we'll find out. Regardless of whether Ryan's ready or not, I just want to see the fight. I mean, they're polar opposites. It will sell so well.

Fingers crossed that Floyd is still part of that team because then you get the Floyd Oscar situation. And that only helps in terms of revenue. I think it's a fight we need to see, but you know the broadcast situation as well as I do. I mean, they're never going to let Tank on the zone. The only way it does happen is if Ryan goes over. Well, I see, I had Stephen Espinoza on the podcast recently. And like, look, Tank v. Ryan's a pay-per-view. You can do joint pay-per-views.

It's been done before. Like, there's a blueprint for it in the U.S. The argument Stephen Espinoza has is that, well, it's not at the level of Pachial Mayweather where we wanted to involve, or had to involve HBO. It's not at the level of Mayweather-McGreger where we had to involve the U.S. Why does it need to be? That's what I said to him. Like, I said, well, tell me what the threshold is.

Yeah. For it's the number. Like, what's the number? Like, that is, 500,000 is real revenue. That's massive money. I think Floyd coming up caused this issue where everyone thinks a million is that sort of threshold. It's not.

Nobody does a million. No one does a million. No one does a million. You're correct. So, Kinella Glock is probably going to do a million. Yeah, 100% by the way. So forget that figure. So 500,000 is now the million that Oscar and Floyd used to do.

That's the number. and it does that number. It does it. Again, like, if Ryan looks good in this fight, and I'm expecting him to, and if Ryan gets a stoppage, he'll call that Tank. I'd love Tank to be here.

Probably won't be here. It's a fight that can be sold and made easily. Yeah. It's the one they both want. Everyone seems to want it. Yeah. So I don't understand the problem. You just wonder if there's enough money

in the pot for both. Tank's going to want big money. Yeah. Ryan's going to want big money. Is there enough money for everyone to get paid and all the networks to kind of enjoy as well? that's the only question, but it's a serious fight. There should be enough money,

because if you turn around and don't make that fight, where do these guys go? Like, there's nobody at 130 or 135, or even 140, that tank would fight on the PBC side of the street. For Ryan Garcia, I've heard some chatter about Jojo Diaz before the end of the year. That's not a bad fight, you know, at 135. And Jojo's a tough guy who's probably not going to get knocked out,

so you're going to have a kind of a war between two guys don't really like each other. At least Jojo doesn't really like Ryan, that's for sure. 100%. So, like, that's okay, but it's not the marketable fight that you're looking for. And, like,

see, I don't know about you, but I put it on the fighters. Like, I always say, Ryan, and Ryan's been saying, it's like, I'm not going to let Golden Boy stand in my way of making that fight happen. I don't hear the same things from Tank. I don't hear, you know,

man with the promotions, go make that fight. Nothing. No, go make that. Yeah, like, Leonard Ellaby is his fucking, sorry, apologies, can you swear on your... You can swear, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, is his mouthpiece. I want to hear Tank talk.

Yeah. I want to hear Tank say, Because, I mean, look, Tank tweets. I don't even if he's controlled on his Twitter. He tweets and then he deletes, which is great. He's actually a master at that because he knows. At least we know it's him. And he knows that tweet's going to be still out there.

Screen grabbed and report. 100%. Yeah. Like Tank would want to take Ryan's head off. Yeah. You know, and Ryan thinks, again, you've got the, you know, don't want to label Tank this guy, but you got the street guy. Yeah.

You know, the guy that's grew up from that route and you've got Tank. So you got Ryan who's like the Pretty Boy Instagram guy. Yeah. It's a perfect sell. Two of the biggest fan bases in boxing. Different fan bases. Could not be any more different. Could not be any more different in boxing.

Yeah, so that's a fight. Ryan needs a big one. Yeah. Ryan, again, Tiafima Lopez at the Loma fight. That was a big one. Devin Haney's at the Combosos fight. That was a big one. Tanks had big fights.

I mean, Padraza was a big fight. Yep. You know, I think that... Padraza was his one signature win at this point. That was a win. And when you look at how Pajaza and Loma went, you kind of give Tank a lot more respect for that win. Ryan's not had one yet.

Luke, yes, but he needs another. one. But you think, I always say that I think Luke was a bigger win than Padraza. Like Luke, I think, was better. The only thing, I think, because Luke retired after. Yeah. So it makes you kind of feel like, okay, it was on the way out. Yeah.

There wasn't much left. Yeah. But in terms of a name, yeah, Luke's bigger than Petraza 100%. Yeah. Yeah. That was, I mean, they were comparable type. They both have one quality win on their resume than each other. And like, we talked a bit about the weight of Ryan.

He's going to be gone from 135 soon. I don't think tax fighting with 140. He might be a 147 than two or three years. Yeah. You know, because he's a big tall guy. and he's going to grow into that body. So it's probably this year, now or never. Now or never.

Can you say who wins? Who do you think wins? Oh, yeah. I think, I think Ryan wins. Oh, interesting. Yeah. I think Ryan gets, this is kind of part of the same conversation.

I think he gets too much disrespect. Like, he kind of gets this whole, like you're an Instagram guy. Like, you're not a real boxer. The guy can crack. He's got the fastest left hook outside of Canello and box. It's just nonsense that, isn't it? It is cartoonishly fast.

Yeah, stupid. I mean, he goes in there and fights. Even if he has an Instagram, which everyone would, be jealous of because it's got like 5 million followers. He has to go in and fight. Yeah. So he has to go in and back it up.

Yeah. You know, he's not on the outside of just posting Instagrams and never getting in the ring. He fights. Yeah. And look, Luke went,

how many rounds? He went the distance with Loma, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, he went in with a tough guy. And, like, there were a couple of occasions

before Ryan stopped him that. I thought Luke was going to win. Remember that moment? I think it was like fifth round where he was turned around. He was, if there was probably 10 more seconds there, Ryan would have been able to pick up a stopage in that round.

So, like, that was a big time win for Ryan. He's got real power, man. He's, right. Ryan's got power. He can hurt you, and he's got some meanness to him, too, in the ring. Do you see when he was hitting this heavy bag recently? He posted on Instagram, I think, and he was doing something with his right hand that kind of was like, I don't know. He's trying to almost learn that Golofkin punch on the top of the forehead.

Yeah. But he's obviously been practicing some stuff with Gusson. So I want to see a better Ryan. Yeah. I want to see more foot movement. We know his hands are fast. Yeah. And he's quite good with his head,

but I want to see your feet move a bit more. But I'm just picking at small things here. Yeah. I mean, he's a very, very good boxer. You're talking about a top, top four, top five lightweight. Yeah. I just want to see him have those big fights and then move up to 140 and chase those as well.

Yeah. Because he will go through the weight classes. And they're all going to go through. Apart from Giovante, whose frame just doesn't allow him to get up there. Shakur's going to go up there. Devin's going to go up there. These guys should be fighting three or four times

against each other when the careers are done. Absolutely. Whether it's at 135 or 140, by Devin Haney at some point. Regis Progrey, I want to see in some of these big fights before his career's over. Nobody will fight that guy. Honestly, I don't think there's a boxer out there.

I feel sorry for more than Regis Program. Like, he's probably thinking, what's going on? I probably beat Josh Taylor in the UK. If that's in America, I get the decision. And I've just been forgotten about it. Can't get a fight for love nor money. Nobody will touch him. Like, Mikey Garcia wouldn't fight him,

then he'd up and retired. Now, even like, the sanctioned bodies are kind of screwing them. Yeah. You won't even get in that world title picture. Crazy. Despite the fact he's only got that loss there. So, you know, whatever. All right, I want to finish with one thing.

We apologize for the vacuum cleaning. We're in the press conference room. We're Ryan Garcia at Havent Petit will be in a few hours, and they're cleaning it up mid-podcast. But Jake Paul. Yes. What's your take on Jake Paul and what he does for boxing? I like it.

I'm sold now. I have to be honest, before when he came through, I remember when he thought KSI's younger brother, Dejie. And I was like, what is this? crap. Now, what is this? And I think people who continually ask for him to fight a boxer have to understand that he isn't a boxer himself. You know, this guy was, you know, was a YouTube guy that has now actually started to really learn the sport of boxing. And you can see it with the level of opponents. They've, they've gone better all the time.

Nate Robinson to Tyron Woodley to now Hassim Rachman Jr. Now, I get that he's asked Hasim Ratman to come down in weight and, you know, and the rehydration clauses. Which, by the way, people get up in arms, but everybody, every A-side does it. Everyone does it. Every A-Side does it. You don't think fighters do that as well. Floyd did it. Canello does it.

You know? So what's the problem? If A-J wasn't a heavyweight, he'd do it. He would do it. Every single A-side takes advantage of the B-side. She's how it works in boxing. But the fact he's fighting a guy that had over 100 amateur fights, who's 12 and 1, I believe, comes from boxing stock is way better than Tommy Fury.

Look, this isn't a conversation of how. how good Hassim Rachman is. This is the case of he's actually fighting a boxer now. Not someone that kind of goes in and out of sport. Someone actually adds this is their profession. So I've got to give him respect. And I also love the way he calls out. You know, the Eddie Hearns of the world and Dana White's.

I love it. And when someone can speak that freely because, you know, you can't be canceled or fired, I can appreciate that. He's putting himself. Look, the Rachman Jr. fight. I was, and I talked to Jake for this podcast, it's coming up next. But when he was next to Rachman at that. press conference in New York.

I'm like, holy shit, that's a big weight difference. And I know Rockman's got to lose. And something's going to come out of him losing all that weight. He can say, I fought that way in the amateurs. He was 224 in his last fight like three months ago. And you're not going to tell him he's been in the gym the whole time. No, no, no. Cutting down to that weight.

So he's going to have to drain himself. But he's going to be the bigger man in the ring. Yeah. And he's going to be the real boxer. He's real boxer. Like, you know, that fight he got knocked out in by Tommy Morrison's kid. Like he was winning that fight up until that point So he wasn't out class

He just got caught and he got knocked out And that's the way it goes So this is the kind of fight where I can see Jake If he's not able to knock Rockman out He might lose a wide decision Because Rockmon's the better boxed A hundred amateur fights Get outboxed

Yeah Like Ratman could show him looks that he's never seen before Like yo what did he do there Like that double jab Where's that come from So this is a big big leap for Jake And I give him respect I was listening to an interview he did

with Ariahuani and he was like if Rachman doesn't take the fight no one else is going to take the fight because we're not going to give someone three or four weeks to it's not right and I'm like geez I'll tell you now professional boxers wouldn't do that you know so I respect Jake I do and look you speak to Serrano and ask her about the respect she has for Jake Paul and the money she was making before Jake Paul

and the money she's making now right and so what he's done again this guy three years ago was quote unquote and nobody in the boxing world he just co-promoted the biggest female fight of all time yeah How? What's going on? So I give him a lot of respect.

And I think the box in public, I know they're quite savage, as you know very well, especially the UK ones. Oh, yes. I think they've – Shout out to my friends. Shout out to the UK fans that love Chris. I think they've even started giving him some respect as well. You have to. You have to.

And I have this fight with Sergio all the time. Oh, yes, Sergio. You were not fighting great fighters in your six professional fight. Tony Bellew, I'd throw it out. I looked at his receipts. He fought a guy, I think, was 50. 15 and 39 or something like that in his six professional fight. Yes, nominally a real boxer, but not a threat to beat you.

Certainly not the threat. Like Jake Paul, I think the Vegas odds have Jake as a slight favor right now. That's going to go down, though. That's going to come down when it gets closer to that fight. Once they saw the press conference and he saw the size difference, and not only that, but Hassim Ratman was in shape. Yep. It wasn't like, he was a bit out of, you know, it wasn't like, you know,

carrying a bit of extra weight around the belly. He didn't look like his dad at that moment. I didn't want to say it. Yeah. He looked massive. I was like, is that a photo, is that a camera angle? Or is he really that much bigger? And he's a lot bigger.

He's a lot bigger. And I think those odds are going to be close to even come fight night. And I defy any... Picked it up there, Adam at the 12-minute mark to talk to my producer. 3, 2, 1. I defy any top-level boxer to tell me they were in a pick-em fight in their six professional fight. It never happens. It takes 20 fights to get to that.

Loma. Or, you know, maybe... Katie Taylor where, you know, obviously not that much depth in female boxing. There is no one, no one. And again, bring up your records, let me see. You're not fighting a 12-and-1 guy in your 6th fight. It's just not until your 20th fight. You're fighting someone with a winning record sometimes, let alone someone that's 12-and-1.

And there'll be some people listening to this, Chris, and yeah, but who did Hassim Ruckman fight? It doesn't matter. He's a boxer. He had 100 amateur fights. Yeah, what are we trying to find holes in Jake Poole's? Jake had won against KSI's. That was considered an amateur fight. Honestly, what he's doing is incredible.

And he seems to, like, really want this. Like, it's crazy. Let's say he were to beat Hassim Rackman. I'd say he were to honestly stop Hassim Rackman. What's he doing next? Sergio. Sergio wants it? Yes.

Sergio wants it, and I brought this up to Jake. Is he a big enough name? Here's the thing with Sergio, right? Sorry, Sergio. Not only would he take the fight. Not only would he be a fight that Jake could win because, No, because Sergio is a... Sergio is a 160, right?

Like, he probably walks around. He eats like shit, but he walks around at like 170. Agreed. So, there's nothing of him. So he would have to come up to, like, 190, and eat his way up to that weight class to fight Jake. His knees are shot. He drinks too much.

He's out of control. So he could... And plus, more importantly, like, Sergio would talk shit for two months. He would spend two months. He would sell the fight. Would Jake take it? So, I guess this brings me the question of Tommy Fury.

Like, I think the Tommy Fury fight eventually will get reschedule. I don't know what Tommy's deal is. You hear a bunch of things but why you can't get into the U.S. I'm done from the Tommy Fury Banway. The fight's fooled off twice because of him. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Twice because of you. Like, nothing to do with Jake here. Nothing. Whatever the reasons are. You can't get into the U.S. You can't get into the U.S. You can't get into the U.S.

And from why I just said it was, I didn't really make much of an effort to get into the U.S. U.S. either. I think the risk in fighting Jake is a serious one. Yeah. If you lose. Oh, you're embarrassed.

Yeah, especially if you are these influence type guy is you're done. You are done if you lose to him. Yeah. Is Tyrone Woodley still around? And like, is he still, you're done. It's a tough one. It's a tough one. Tony Bellew, I think, would, that would be more fair than Moora. Bellew would destroy him, by the way.

Bellew would knock out. That's why I don't want to see it. Like Bellew is like a, you know, he came down to Cruz's way up that last fight, but he's a heavyweight at this point. I've seen him hit pads recently. No, no, no. I don't want to see that. No, no.

You need to be in. You need to be in the ring with a, guy with no knees who wears Canisio tape all over his body who could knock out a fly if it was in front of him Sergio Mora. Like, he won't, and especially if the fights in the US, Sergio's still a known commodity

in the US, he's on the damn contender, I walk around L.A. with him all the time. People take pictures with him constantly. So, I think that'd be fun. Jake did say he's struggling for opponents. Obviously, he's got a certain type of opponent he wants. Yeah. Conner, Gregor, Jake Paul. What do you think of that? Um, no. For Connor. Honestly, not now.

I was watching sort of Connor, you know, when you get bored and you're going on YouTube rabbit hole, when you think of Connor four or five years ago when he was at his absolute peak, or just his body, his performance. You didn't see sort of him on Instagram drinking every single day. He's on the way out. In fact, he's already out. Jake Paul's bigger, younger, stronger, fresher, not better, but the other four or five things I mentioned,

I think equalized the fact that Connor McGreg is probably a better fighter than him. So if I'm Connor, I avoid that one at all cost. Like Connor cannot avoid, he cannot want to get face planted like Tyrone Woodley did. It will ruin everything that Connor's kind of built up. So if I'm Connor, there's not enough money in the world that would make me want to have a Jake Paul fight. Yeah, I'm kind of with you there. I don't know what Connor does this point. Like he goes back to M.MA, pretty good chance he gets beat again there.

And it wouldn't diminish his legacy because he had a great run in M.A. But like, yeah. He doesn't have to do anything. You're right. Keeps on whiskey. I mean, how much is that made of hundreds of millions? Oh, got to be million. You know, and he can attach his name to any brand and it will still make loads of money.

So apart from a Floyd exhibition fight, which won't do great numbers, the rematch, the rematch wouldn't matter that much anymore. That doesn't do anything. The first one was so, look, from a boxing purist, it wasn't a great thing, but just the whole build-up was fantastic. Yeah. It ain't going to do that again. No, never.

So if I'm Connor, just sit on my Lamborghini yacht and my five castles, I've got an island and just enjoy life. Guys like that, though, they can't let it go. They can't let it go. The competitive juice still kind of flows all the way through them. All right, two things I want to eat before I let you go. Amanda Serrano is on the undercard of that fight. I did an interview with Amanda this week.

It wasn't very good because she didn't really want to talk about Katie Taylor and what happened in that fight. She didn't want to really answer something that Eddie Hearn said where he said that he was basically told that it wouldn't matter how much money was put on the table. Amanda didn't want to take the rematch with Katie right away. During the interview, her trainer, Jordan Maldonado got a little bit upset at some of the questioning that. that we were having there. Look, I get Amanda wants to defend her titles. She wants to be undisputed at 126, but she's probably making a fraction of the money

in this next fight. I mean, I don't, do you wonder, do you, what do you think about her of the Taylor Serrano not being an immediate rematch? Yeah. Honestly, crazy. I was lucky enough to be at MSG for it, and I don't want to separate male and female boxing

just in terms of boxing. It's one of the greatest events I've ever covered or just been witnessed to watch. Like when you had, And I'm speaking to Ack from Ack and Brack, and Ack was like, you know, the Puerto Ricas are going to drown out of the Irish. I was like, you have maybe not seen what happens when the Irish turn up. Yes.

It was. And drink. Outstanding. Yeah, and drink. Right. And drink the place dry. It was outstanding. The fight delivered in all aspects.

How you don't run that back straight away, I have no idea. And I get that she wants to defend her belts at what, 126 pounds. And this is no disrespect to who she's fighting and those belts. No one cares. No one. We just want to see the cake. Taylor fight. We want those historical fights of female boxing and the idea of her sort of not wanting it immediately. And I don't know if that's her or a team or Jake or management. I'm not quite

sure, but it should happen. Yeah. And I guess the only problem is everyone wants a bit more money. And for them to get more money, it probably has to go to Croke Park where you can do more on the gate. I wouldn't want that because I think it deserves to be MSG again where it gets a fair split of fan bases. So maybe that's a stumbling block. But Amalana's a run and needs to be fighting Katie Taylor next. Yeah, there should be enough money for it to have. Yeah, how greedy do we be? What do we want? You just not make, like, Katie's probably

making, Katie's going to make money no matter who she faces, one way or the other. Amanda's not going to make that type of money unless she fights a Katie Taylor. What do you think of Katie Taylor against Chris Cyborg? That seems to be the fight that people are talking about before the end of the year. You know, my problem with that fight

is that there are too many options for Katie at 135, 140, and maybe even guys coming up for girls, sorry, coming up from 1.30, that are good fights. Yeah. If there are no options out there, then Cyborg makes sense. Yeah, but I want to get, I wanted to get a gimmie. Like, give her a gimmie.

Give her a gimmick. She deserves a gimmick. Cyborg will be a gimmie, by the way. For those people that are thinking she's got a chance. But it's the MMA crowd. They all think that she can win. It's the same crowd that thinks that Connor McGregor would beat Floyd Mayweather. It's the same group.

It's crazy. It's crazy. Like, Cyborg just swings. Like, it almost be in slow motion as Katie CETE's see those punches coming. Yeah. And she would tune up Cyborg convinced. He might not stop her because Cybor's tough, but she'll destroy her. But that's a big Vegas fight.

So I think they want to take it. I don't think she's fought there. And it would be a big event. Best ever in MMA, best ever arguably in boxing. You could sell that and it would be an easy paycheck for Katie Taylor. I'm a big Cyborg fan for what she's done for female MMA. So I want her to get that paycheck. Yeah.

I want her to get it. You know, she didn't get the Ronda Rousey fight. She got the Amanda Nunes fight and lost. She isn't making any money where she is relatively compared to some of the female boxers. So I want her to have a big paycheck. Yeah. She deserves it.

So, yeah, maybe as a fun fight, it'll make more sense. But, I mean, there's the winner of Baumgardner versus Maya. They could come up and fight. Shantelle Cameron. Do that after the Serrano rematch. Like, like, do that. Like, let's get Katie. Like, I'm on team, like, get Katie an easy paycheck.

And then go into the Amanda Serrano fight in April, May of 2023. And then see what happens. Like, let's see, let's see, Michaela mayor. Michael Mayor can go out and get that fourth title at 1.30. Become undisputed there. Yeah. Undisputed versus undisputed at that sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You're right. And she does deserve an easy run, Katie. She's had some... Everything's a war with her. Oh, my God. Everything's... Sometimes she makes it a war, but everything's a war with her. And, you know, you interview her, and you are concerned.

I'm concerned because I'm a fan of hers. And they're like, okay, slow down a bit now. Yeah. Tony Bell, you told me after, said she should retire. Like, all right? Yeah. Tony's out of everyone. Everyone that Tony knows, even if he knows you're a little bit, just retire.

Stop now. Stop everyone. He wouldn't stop, but everyone should just stop. Everyone else should just... But maybe, I understand. what you means are in terms of a fight to go out on. Yeah. It doesn't get much bigger than MSG against Amanda Serrano, you know.

I think you'd need some decisive, like that was a close fight. Very close. Look, I think she, I was fine with her winning that fight, but, you know, Amanda Serrano's fans will say she won the fight. I think she needs one more go at it to see what happens there. We want to see it desperately again, and Amanda does as well. Amanda knows the difference between the paycheck she's going to get from Katie to what she's going to get in a few weeks time.

It's complete. It's night and day. Seven figures versus low six. Like that's kind of the way it goes at this point. All right, last thing for you. Connor Ben versus Chris Eubank. Jesus. I'll be honest.

In the U.S., it's kind of like, all right, I guess maybe I'll watch that. In the UK, a little bit different, right? How big a fight is that in the UK? Enormous. Yeah. Enormous. The only fight that could eclipse it in the UK is Fury, AJ. Wow.

That's the only fight that could eclipse it. And that's just because of their dads. Sort of 90s boxing in Britain was probably the biggest it's ever been. It was on terrestrial TV. You could watch it for free. And the two biggest names were Nigel Ben and Chris Eubank. Like they hated each other, genuine animosity. I think with boxing fans nowadays, you don't know if the guys really hate each other

or they're just sort of giving each other high fires behind the screens. Chris Eubank and Nigel Ben hated each other. And no one ever believed that their sons would fight. It's dream world. And the thing is, their sons are exactly like them. Chris Eubank, Jr., is very Marmite. Fans even love him or hate him, but you're going to tune in because regardless. And Connor Ben's exactly like his dad.

I mean, that the switch could just turn any second. The fact that they could be fighting each other because it's not been confirmed yet. At catch weight, easily a stadium fight in the UK. Easily, 70,000 tickets could go in about 10 minutes. So, yeah, it's a big, big fight. And it's a shame, you're right.

Obviously, the fight wouldn't do, I guess no one even knows this happening over here in the U.S. Probably not, no. Because Connor Ben's starting to make a name for himself. You bang never got a foothold. He fought, I think, a couple of times. in the US never really gained any traction but Connor Ben because of his knockouts is starting to get a little bit of interest here people are asking though like you know

Matrimov's kind of built Connor you know slowly but surely you know he's taken of you it's taken on a lot of sort of faded American water weights and done them so why a masterful job of the faded American welterweight oh he's done it but there's no more they've run out they've run out so everyone's like okay what are they doing why not an avonisian you know someone of that ill maybe a Cavalascus they've got no we'll take on I think they're a little worried about Connor's chin, to be honest with you. I think Connor, like, he's, the one common thread amongst all the opponents he's faced, none of them are punchers at this point. Whether it's Chris Algeria, Chris Van Here didn't go back.

Yeah, Granados, like those guys, they are not punchers. So he's not a hitter. So I'm curious to see how he fares. Like, I don't know if Eubanks considered a puncher was a bigger guy. He's a bigger guy. He's fought 168. Yeah. And he's always in shape.

So I guess they're trying to, you know, there's a lot of talk about the fight men at 156 pounds, which could, Drain Eubank. Me and you spoke about the A side, B side thing a bit earlier, about, you know, the A side dictating. I guess Connor is the A side in this one. But it's a fight where there's almost too much money on the table for both to turn it down. Can't. Yeah, there's no fight, and this is genuine for your listeners.

There's no fight 147 pounds that makes Connor Ben the same money that fighting Chris Ebenne, Jr. So I'm talking about Errol Spence, Terrence Crawford, the lot of them. This fight in the UK generates so much money. It's crazy. Honestly, it's crazy. in terms of a pay-per-view it would probably in the UK do around 7 to 800,000 bytes

which is mental obviously our paper-view price is a lot lower than it is here in the US but it's such a big fight for Chris Eubank he's probably thinking the risk rewards too big like the risk against a Walterway is nothing and the rewards too big so why am I going to fight the likes of GigiG

and the rest when I can fight this little guy coming up for 147 pounds it sells it really does fingers crossed I'm doing the face of it well he's got to be thinking too you bank that like I can stop this guy like he's a big puncher at 147 but I'm 1601. Yeah I'm gonna walk through it. As long as I can get

down there in a healthy way and not you know just be completely drained on flight night I'm gonna blow this guy in fact I and you know more people on that side of it than I do but in the preliminary conversation of how boxing people, they think Eubank's gonna blow him out. They think Eubank's gonna run right through them. Yeah and Eubank probably thinks so as well like Eubank you know for the lack of boxing ability

he hasn't he's not great if I want to do like Roy Jones hasn't really added much to his arsenal Every time somebody tries to be Roy Jones It's like, are we trying to be Floyd? I can't take one people do the shoulder roll like Floyd. Oh God, nobody doesn't. Broner tried to do it for years. No, everyone stopped.

Just stop. And Roy was great because his reflexes were uncanny. So good. So good. And what Chris does have, though, is a chin. Yeah. So as much as everyone says, Conner's got a bit of power, George Groves could have knocked Chris Eubank out.

And he landed a couple of big right hands. So I don't see how, I just don't see how Conner wins. But, you know, kudos to him. He's going to get. get paid. What I hope it doesn't do is ruin him like it did Kelbrook GGG. Yeah. So you hope it doesn't ruin him going forward. He went all the way up to, yeah.

Kelbrook's a good analogy. Like went all the way up to 160, then came down to 147, Errol Spence Beatt's DeLislandland was never the same. Yeah, all over the place. The body shot to pieces, two orbital bones broken in both eyes. You don't want that. So you hope it doesn't ruin him. But I guess they would have put a figure on the table and he probably said, give me that figure now. And that figure

would be seven figures, you know, and maybe sort of decent seven thinkers as well, not just a million, maybe a bit more than that. So it's difficult for fighters to turn down that kind of money. Yeah. Very, very difficult. But look, they're talking about October in the UK. Hopefully you guys come over. Yeah. Because it's a

massive, massive British fight. Love it. Looking forward to it. Looking forward to Saturday, Adelaideop a part of the broadcast team for Ryan Garcia against Javier Fortuna. And I apologize for the backlash you're getting for sitting next to me and doing this podcast. I was about to put up an Instagram post of me and you doing this, but...

You got to turn your comments off then on that one. Yeah, it's not worth it. Appreciate your time, man. Cheers, Chris. When we come back, my conversation with Jake Paul. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered, comedy. conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve

to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get

told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clivert Show on the I Heart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at It podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Fight fans come out swinging with a no-swet first bet on FanDul Sportsbook. Right now, new customers get up to $1,000 in free bets if your first bet doesn't win. Just sign up with the promo code boxing. Bet on who will win, knockouts, when the fight will end, and so much more.

So if you haven't tried Fandul, now is the perfect time to give it a shot. Just join now with the promo code boxing to get a no sweat first bet. That's up to $1,000 back in free bets if your first bet doesn't win. Exclusively on the Fanduals Sportsbook app. All right, Jake, so I watched the video of your face off with the Seam Rockman Jr. I got to tell you, my first reaction was Jake might have bit off more than he could chew. I mean, this, I think, is the first opponent you've looked up to, like literally. And there's right now a month before the fight as we record this or less than,

he's got to be 20 plus pounds heavier than you at this point. Maybe more, maybe more. Even standing up there and watching the video back, I was like, damn, he's big. He really is a big guy. And this is a massive challenge, man. My manager, Logan, all of them are like, hey, I don't think you should do this fight. There's too much risk. But for me, I love a challenge.

And I want everyone to tune in to be like, hey, let's see if this kid is crazy or not. Let's see if he gets his ass kick or let's see if he's right. Let's see if he has that knockout power. And let's see if he can really box against professionals. So was that your thinking here because this really is high risk and medium reward maybe? Because, I mean, Rachman Jr. is not as well known as Tommy Fury. but I would argue he's the better boxer, he's the more dangerous fighter, he's going to be the bigger man in the ring.

Was it just about proving to people that you can face and beat a, quote, real fighter? Yeah, that's part of it. And just the responsibility to my fans to put on events and proving to myself what I'm capable of. I want to test my own limits. I want to see just how good I am and check fighting a professional boxer off the list. And after this, I'll be able to fight the Anderson Silva's, the Nate Diaz's. But I didn't want to just keep on fighting MMA fighters and people being like, oh, well, they're not actual boxers. This is a really tough test.

He has a huge amateur career. He has a good professional career. And we're going to see what I'm made of. You've sparred with him before. That video has made the rounds. Did that experience give you confidence that this was a fight you can win? You know, the answer is not really. It was a very tough sparring session.

But where my confidence comes from is knowing that I worked harder than him over the last 18 months since that sparring session. I guarantee it. I've been more dedicated. I've been in the gym. And I guarantee you I'm more obsessed with this sport than he is. And so my progress since that day, I guarantee you, is more than his. And that's why I know I can go in there and beat him. Is there bad blood between you two guys?

Yeah, for sure. I mean, even just at the press conference today, there's just this back and forth. You know, he's still pissed off about that sparring session. And there's a lot of shit talking going on. And it's definitely personal. It's definitely personal. And I like that going into a fight. I want something that's entertaining.

I don't want to fight someone that I respect or that I care for. To me, that's not fun. I want to fight an enemy. He's my enemy. Tommy Fury pulled out of this fight. It's the second time he's pulled out of a fight with you this time for travel reasons. Do you believe what Tommy Fury is selling? And the follow-up would be, is there potential for that fight to be rescheduled down the line?

I don't believe what he's selling. You know, his own dad came on Twitter and did an interview, basically saying that he didn't do the fight because he told Tommy that he was overweight, that he wasn't training. So his own dad ratted him out. Who knows if he even went to the airport to get denied access? It seems crazy that one of the biggest stars in the UK goes to the airport, and there's no pictures of him at the airport.

I don't believe it. I think he was scared to fight. And in the future, I just don't know if it happens, man. I'm tired of getting all amped up and ready to go and training for him and then him backing out. He's done it twice already. So why wouldn't he do it a third time? Is less than a month enough time for you to kind of pivot from facing Tommy Fury to to Asim Raqman, who are two, you know, different style of fighters?

Yeah, we'll see. He's a Southpaw. So we have to train for that. He switches stance. He goes from South Bar to Orthodox. So this will be my first time going up against a Southpaw as well. So having to train for that, we know he's going to come out Southpaw. So, yeah, we have to take the next 30 days and really sharpen that up.

But I have some surprises for him, you know? I have a crazy, crazy surprise for him that I have fighting against Southpaw. There's something that I'm really, really good at against. Southpaws that they all need to watch out for and I'm excited to show that August 6th And I've said this in interviews and I've done this in videos about boxing videos but like This should be the fight that quiet's critics towards you because I always tell fighters check the receipts on what your six professional fight looked like who were you fighting what kind of record did your opponent have like it do you feel like this is the fight that if you win everybody else can

shut up yeah they have to they have to and you know it was only a matter of time before this I'm going to take harder fights. I'm going to keep on advancing, and I'm going to fight a professional boxer eventually. And boom, here we are. And there's people like your partner, Sergio, who, you know, I've even seen you say who did he fight in his sixth fight. So I can tell you, Jake, I can tell you his name was Warren Kronberger, who sounds like your tax attorney, but is actually a fighter. Warren, that's not a boxer. Yeah, I'm doing something that's unprecedented here. Canello's six fight was up against a. guy who was two and two. So, you know, I don't have to do this. I could take easier fights just like all of them did, but I need this. I want this. I love a challenge and I love to shut people up. So that's exactly what I'm going to do. So you mentioned Sergio Mora. If you beat Rachman, you could return to facing MMA fighters, Connor McGregor, Nate Diaz. But you have also suggested that you would like to face a former champion. I happen to know a former champion,

one that's old, with bad knees, and no power, and a body covered in kinesio tape, and old. What are the chances we could see Jake Paul in against Sergio Mora? Maybe, man, but, you know, I don't like to pick on senior citizens.

So I don't know if I could do that. And I don't know if the public would want that fight. The thing about me is I have to make fights that the public want. So we'll see who that is. After this fight, there's going to be people calling me out left and right. Everyone in their mom is going to want to fight me after this. So I'm just going to make a decision, go back with my team. Who knows?

Maybe I'll retire. My brother, after the last fight was like, yo, you should just retire. Like, you've done it all. No one can say anything now. So who knows, I can do whatever I want. I don't need the money. I don't need to fight. So we'll just see what ends up happening.

Can I just make one request? If you do fight, Sergio, can I be in your corner? Yes. Yes. You can be my cut man and we'll take them down together. I don't think you'll need a cut man against Sergio. Let's go. Oh, you hear that, Sergio?

Boom. Jake, good luck on August 6th, man. Big event. Seam Rockman Jr., Matt Square Garden, Showtime pay-per-view. Always good to catch up. Thank you, Chris. Always a pleasure.

When we come back, this week's picks brought to you by Fanduel. All right, time now for this week's picks brought to you by our friends over at Fandul. And I hope you bet with me

last week because you would have gotten rich. I told you, the Vegas odds on Derek Chesora against Kubrat Pulev. We're crazy. Plus 600 for Chisora

to be. win by decision, come on. That was an easy one. I put that bet down when I was in Vegas at the NBA Summer League. And I also turned around and rolled it over on Ray Vargas against Mark McSio. I had Vargas to win by decision. So I sweeten the pot with that deal. This week, I am focused now on Ryan Garcia against Javier Fortuna. Garcia is the favorite and a big one and deservedly so. Minus 1450, according to Fan Duel at the moment. So you're not going to make a lot of money on betting on Ryan Garcia, unless you're going to bet big. I do think it's a safe bet.

I think Ryan, in his second fight in about three or four months, his second fight with Joe Gousin, his second fight since dealing with a hand injury and mental health issues, he is going to be a lot sharper. And Javier Fortuna, he does have a win since last year's loss to Jojo Diaz. But it was a low-level win, and I'm not confident in his ability to win a fight against Ryan Garcia. So take Ryan Garcia to win.

If you want some better odds, take Ryan Garcia to win by knockout. Mine is 200 right now for Garcia to win by knockout. I think his knockout run returns in this next fight. Before the fight against Tago, he had collected five knockouts in a row. Went the distance with Tago in part because Tago didn't really come to win. Let's be real. So I think he gets it back against Fortuna because Fortuna, if nothing else, is going to come to fight. I think he's going to walk into something big.

and Ryan Garcia is going to claim a knockout. So take Ryan Garcia to win and take Ryan Garcia to win by knockout if you want some better odds. Those are my picks brought to you by Fandul. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Ade Oladipo and Jake Paul for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcast,

Spotify, wherever you download podcasts. And I'll see you next week. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not.

not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilts of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Cliford Show

on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, Follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.