The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - AJ and Usyk meet face-to-face

Episode Date: June 24, 2022

Joining Mannix this week is Sergio Mora, former junior middleweight champion and DAZN broadcaster. Mannix and Mora discuss Artur Beterbiev's win over Joe Smith, a potential Beterbiev-Dmitry Bivol fight, Bam Rodriguez's latest challenge, AJ-Usyk meet face-to-face, Jake Paul-Tommy Fury, and more; later, Bam Rodriguez on beating Carlos Cuadras, facing Srisaket Sor Rungvisai and what would happen if his brother, 115-pound contender Joshua Franco, becomes the mandatory challenger for his belt. #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Andrew Ruiz is the heavyweight champion. Hosted by S.I's Chris Mannix. That was my moments. Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix. I would like to say that your highest rated guest has returned. You are not my highest rated guest.

Yes, I am. Admit it. Admit it. The latest arriving guest is what you are. latest arriving on the day of and you know i show up when it matters manix i show up when it matters that's not proven to be true like i teach like i teach my son punctuality matters it's a sign of respect in other people's time and i do the saxine thing you missed all of thursday because you flew in late in the day i that just means i don't respect you that's all that means okay all right

champion DeZone boxing analyst is in. We are in San Antonio for the Bam Rodriguez, Sarisa Katzor-Rung-Bissai fight. That's a fight you can see on Saturday, live on DeZone. And we're going to get to that, Sergio. But I want to look back to the fight that I was ringside at last weekend. Archer Betrbiv against Joe Smith, light heavyweight unification fight. And this one looked like it could be a war because Betterbeyev, arguably the biggest puncher in all of boxing. Joe Smith, a big puncher with a granite chin. Felt like going in, it could be a back and forth fight.

Whoever landed first would win? No, not so much. Joe Smith knocks, Archer Better, we have knocks Joe Smith down in this first round, knocks him down twice in the second round, would have knocked him down again, had Harvey Doc not stopped that fight. Archer Betterbeyev is your unified light heavyweight world champion. What did you think of Better Beaville's performance, and did it surprise you to see him?

mowed down Joe Smith the way he did. It surprised me, but it just shows you how hard to Archer Better Be of hits. I mean, he has cinder blocks for hands. They're heavy hands. But while you're talking, I'm thinking, and you know what's more important than having a granite fist, having granite chin? Okay, it's not granite.

Granite. Granite. Granite. Granite. Granite, apple, potato, potato. No, not. Not being close. So better be of, yeah, he has these heavy hands where he doesn't have to hit you cleanly. Now, Joe Smith has heavy hands as well. well, but his, his doesn't come with as much technique as Betterbyev.

And if you notice in that, in that first round, Betterbyev came out boxing, moving. I didn't expect that. That kind of threw me off. He was moving laterally. And he wanted to feel out Joe Smith. He wanted to see what kind of game plan he had in that first round. And, you know, he wanted to fill out those hands as well. It was two power punchers that wanted to fill out their power.

Betterby have did the right thing by moving the first round. And Joe Smith, that second round, or was it the first? round he got caught he got caught early i know the first round went down and that changed the course and then that changed so i i think better b a did the smart thing but that's that Olympic pedigree moving around the ring getting the feel of the ring not get not get hit early by a puncher that's what happens when you get hit by someone with hard hands that early you don't you don't get accustomed to the power then you can't recoup after that so better bia showed not only uh experience and he showed character but he showed that he has more than just power he has you know a fight game and and uh and uh

Joe Smith on the other hand. Yeah, man, I didn't expect him to go down like that. I expected a war. I expected seven or eight rounds, but that just goes to show you how powerful, Better Beaviv and how dangerous he is. Better Beav is an underrated boxer. Like, he was a world champion back in 2009.

He was an Olympian, lost controversially in the 2008 Olympics. His previous amateur loss was to Alexeta Usoc. So he's fought some of the best in the amateur ranks. He's not just, you know, this blunt force trauma type of guy. He has rocks in his hands, but he knows how to deliver those punches. I know Smith's team was angry afterwards about some of the punches behind the head. And better be of does have a history of kind of landing behind the head. But it's because guys duck down, Sergio.

And when guys duck down, I don't have a lot of sympathy for them when they get hit behind the head. Like don't duck into punches like that. I used to get penalized a lot in the amateurs on national tournaments by dipping down. And I took that into the pro ranks. That's my style. I used to dip below my opponent's waist, and I used to evade punches that way. I had great defense, great upper body movement.

But in the amateurs, they want you to just put your hands up and block that way. That's not going to work in the pros. It's a flawed system, but that's another story. Moving your head makes a power puncher miss completely. Anytime you have a hard puncher, he's accustomed to hitting and hurting something, but when you make a miss completely,

not only does he tire out quickly, his legs go out quicker, but he gets discouraged, and he doesn't want to throw as many punches. So better be if, yeah, he may have caught him at the side of the head, but it was legal. It was definitely legal, and it's because Joe Smith, you know, kind of huddles into that guard and he gives up the side of his head.

But every fighter, I don't care how great defensively a fighter is has been hit borderline side back of the head. Every fighter has faced that. You just got to go through it. I bet on Joe Smith in that fight because he was a 13-to-1 underdog to win by decision in that fight. 13-1. I like Joe Smith in that fight as well because of that experience he got from Bebo.

That's true. You did pick Smith the win on the zone. I did. It was a bad pick, but so was picking Romero. Did you take Roly Romero? I took Roli Romero. Even though one judge was on board with me, but yeah, pick Roli Romero. It doesn't matter if you get knocked out.

Okay, it doesn't matter what the judge said. Hey, he was ahead before he got knocked out. Then he would have lost in the other two judges' court cards. It wouldn't matter either way. So that's why, listen, it's 36 minutes of fighting. You can win 35 and still lose. So BetterBea is 18 and 0, 18 knockouts. His resume is starting to get some meat on it.

He's got wins over Alexander Vostick. He's got wins over Marcus Brown and now Joe Smith. So here's a question to have for you, Sergio. Is Archer Betterbeev a pound-for-pound guy at this point? I'm not going to ask you straight up to say yes or no. I'm going to ask you because my pound-for-pound list is coming out on us.com later this week. I could already answer it, no. So, all right.

So I'm going to ask you if he belongs on the list over the last. four guys on my list. So Tyson Fury, is the belonging list over Tyson Fury? No. Okay. Chaucor Stevenson. Maybe. Really?

You'd put over Schor Stevenson. Just because of the youth, you know, unification. I know Shakur Stevens, he. 126-pound champion, unified at 130, just beat Oscar Valdez. Stevenson badly. Has everything ahead of him, but who do you take out and who do you put in? That's the only reason I take out this young kick because he's so talented, so gifted, and he has the world ahead of him.

But yes, does he belong in top 11, pound for pound? Absolutely. So let me give you the last two here, or last three rather. Jermel Charlo. He's up there where Stevenson. Jemel Charlo's number eight. No, I put him nine or eight, Charlo. Well, Charles eight in my list.

Charlie's right there. At nine, I've got Josh Taylor. Josh Taylor is probably 10 on my list. I think Josh Taylor's being overlooked at this point because he had a lackluster win over Jack Caterall. I think you have to give Josh Taylor credit for blowing through. The World Boxing Super Series, beating Regis Progray, beating Jose Ramirez. And even though it was a close fight with Caterall, I mean, that wasn't a robbery.

Like it was, I've seen robberies. That wasn't it. It was a close fight that went his way, and maybe it shouldn't have. Good for him for saying, by the way, he's going to stay at 140 to fight Caterall in a rematch. And number 10, I've got Lomachenko on that list. You have to, you know, that's what's tricky about these top 10 lists. Who do you take out? But I agree with you with Lomanchenko.

I agree with you with everyone else. but Stevenson has not accomplished what Lomanchinco has accomplished. And I just think, you know, Josh Taylor became undisputed. You know, one of what, you know, six, seven undisputed champions, and he beat some of the best fighters, as you mentioned. So I just think, you know, he's ahead of the game right now. Yeah, I mean, of course. Yeah, I took, on this month's list, I took Dmitri Beable off and I put Jermel Charlow on.

Because, again, I give Jermel Charlow credit for his resume. Jamel Chalel is one of the most impressive resumes of the guys in the top time. Yeah, I don't blame me on that one, man. Just knocked out Brian Castanio. That's a tough decision to make, but I don't blame me on that one. You know, I know Devin Haynes is going to complain about not being top 10, but you really can't. I mean, he's got four belts, but he beat one guy to get them. You know, I don't, I think that's top 10 yet, not until he faces some better competition.

I left Bevo off. I left Better Beow off. If Bevo fights Better Beav, the winner of that fight will get on the list, no question about it. Now, we're not going to get that fight next because BetterBeev is headed for a showdown in the UK against Anthony Yard. I think he blows through yard. I talked to Yard after the fight. Yard said, Bener B.F's a beast, but I'm a beast too. I don't think that's true.

Better Biaf is a different animal than Anthony Yard. I think that wins that fight comfortably. And we're probably going to get Dmitri Bevel against Joshua Bowice or Zerto Ramirez before the end of the year. So we're not going to get that fight next, but who would you favor right now in a Better B.F. versus B.B.B.B.V. versus B. B.B. fight. Back to what you're saying about Yard. A beast doesn't beat a beast. What beats a beast is

brains. And Dimitri Bevo has a brains. He has a jab. He keeps that distance, that strategy, and that game plan all the way to the end. I'll favor Dimitri Bevo in that fight. Because of that, because of all that I just mentioned and the momentum that he has beating the number one fighter in the world in Canelo. So momentum, confidence, style, pedigree, and the fact that he's just so damn smart. You know, you talk to Dimitri Bevo in an interview or in a conversation, and it's enlightening the things that he says, you know, even though it is with a heavy accent, he says the right things, man. He says the right things. Kind of like me with my Latino accent. But, yeah, he's just, he's a pleasure to talk to. He's very smart and he's a hell of a fighter,

and power's not going to be enough to beat Dimitri Bevo. You need, you're going to need more than that. Yeah, look, you're going to need more than that, but it goes back to what I said a minute to go. Better Biav's not just some power puncher. He's got skill behind him. He showed that. He does. He's got good footwork. Clubbing punches aren't going to land one on Bivel because he's not going to break that distance. Joe Smith got caught with that hooking type punch because he was in that range. You know, Beville's going to maintain that range like he proved in all his fights with everyone else. I mean, he got rock with Joe Smith Jr. But Joe Smith Jr., but Joe Smith Smith, Jr. punches really hard. He learned from that. He learned from that. And it was towards

the end of the fight. What was it the 11th round? Smith is reckless out there. Like, Betterbeev is a... I wouldn't call him reckless. Joe Smith is a wild puncher. Unpolished, but not reckless. All right. He's splitting hairs there.

He's a kind of a wild puncher out there. Betterbie is not. Better Beav is a compact puncher. My Jorga is a wild puncher. He's not a wild puncher. All right, but it's different. It's different with Archer Beattirbeth in the ring because he's a very accurate puncher. He's a strong puncher.

He throws punches from all kinds of angles really concisely. He is, he's dangerous in there against Dimitri Bebel. And I'm not sure. Like, Bevo knew that Canello probably wasn't going to hurt him. Like, Canello's powerful at 168, not so much at 175. Bebole knew he could do some things. I think the people that fought Canello would get caught by Archer-Betterb. And if you get caught by BetterBF, it's over.

Lights out. Joe Smith learned that. Alexina Vostick learned that. Marcus Brown learned that. All these guys that are big, legitimate light heavy weights. Vostick, I keep going back to that win. That was a great win. It was.

Looking back. It aged well. Vostick is a tremendous fighter. And he was winning some rounds. against Better Biav, and then he got stopped. Like, I can see the same thing happening to be true people. Unfortunately, we're not going to get it for a while. Maybe not until, I don't know, end of next year.

That's all right. We're going to get great interim fights in between. I would love to see either one of these guys fights Sudo-Ramirez or Yard or anyone else. These are great fights. You really want to see Better Bav against Yard? You know what, Yard? Yes, I would.

Why? I mean, it won't be a marketable fight, but it would be a damn good fight. You think that's a good fight. Stylistically, yes. Yes, absolutely. Ramirez against Yard would be a hell of a fight. I think Ramirez against Bebo is a trip. All these guys are great fights.

I think Ramirez Bebo is a very good thing. Stylistically, they match up well. I don't think Yard. I don't think Yard can handle the pressure. It better be a... I don't see that happening. All right, we are here in San Antonio for Bam Rodriguez against Srisa Katsur Rungbassai,

115 pound world title fight. Bam, the champion, Sor Rungbysai, the former champion and title challenger. I want to ask you first about Bam Rodriguez's last win. It was just a few months ago. that Rodriguez took a fight against Carlos Quadris on two, less than a week's notice, I should say, and moved up two weight classes and beat one of the better fighters at 115 pounds.

What did you think of that performance, first off? Well, no, you got to give the kid credit. I mean, 22 years old going up against a fighter that's fought all of the fearsome four, from Chocolatito to Estrada to Surunga. He fought them all. and for Ben Rodriguez to take that step in a short notice fight is incredible. I mean, no matter how much money they try to pay me to do that, I would never have done it. That's such bullshit.

Of course you would for money. No, well, maybe for money, but still, it takes a lot for a young undefeated kid like this, and it's for a championship as well. So it says a lot about his character and the belief that the team has in him. But the way he handled it, Mannix, he fought the first half of the fight brilliantly, and then he started exchanging with Surung Desai. Quadras, Quadras. I'm sorry, with.

quadrus. And then Robert Garcia in his corner was telling him, do not exchange with them. It's keep it in twos and fuse and keep moving, keep shifting, keep the angles. And that's what he's going to have to do with Sarung Vesai as well. But for a 22-year-old to carry that game plan all the way to the end is what speaks volumes. So what did you make then of his decision not only to stay at 115 pounds, but to take on the biggest puncher in the division in Sorong Vassai? easily could have dropped back down to 112, where there are some marketable fights out there for him. Theoretically, Julio Caesar Martinez, if he can never make weight,

would be a good fight for Rodriguez. Sonny Edwards is out there potentially for Rodriguez. Instead, Bam decided to stay at 115, keep his title, and he's going up against a guy who even at 35 years old is still the biggest puncher in this weight class. It's an opportunity, but it's a really dangerous one, Because that's exactly how you become great, man. By taking on these challenges, on names, on champions,

these guys look great on your resume. And the reason they're dangerous is because, yes, one punch can't change something. But looking back in it, when all said and done, and you look at the names on your resume, that's when you say, man, I can't believe I took on that challenge. Yeah, look, it's, it's a huge credit to Bam Rodriguez for doing it. because he could have stayed at 1.15 and defended his title against a lesser opponent.

This is a homecoming fight for Bam Rodriguez. He's San Antonio born, San Antonio raised, still lives in San Antonio, met the mayor of San Antonio this week. So he is getting the full treatment from the city of San Antonio. He could have fought someone lesser, but he's taking on Surungvassai. And I'm of the belief, Sergio, that Sorongvati has something left. I believe he does because I look back at that Estrada fight. I watch that a couple of times now.

He had a terrible game plan in that fight. He fought Orthodox against Estrada. And for like nine rounds fighting Orthodox, he looked ordinary. Then in the 10th round, he switches back to Southpaw, and he's landing big shots. He's connecting with those big shots. And one thing that you brought up about Bam Rodriguez, he does have a tendency to stand in front of his opponents. You mentioned what Robert Garcia was saying, don't stand in front of him, don't stand in

front of him. It's one thing to stand in front of Carlos Quadris. it's quite another to stand in front of Sarisa Katzno Rungbysai. And if he does that, he's going to open the door to get knocked out. He is a naturally smaller fighter going up against a guy that if nothing else still has power left in him. Manix, it wasn't my trainer that said this. Confusing him for Oscar Wilde at times.

Experience is what men give the name to their mistakes. So if you make mistakes, you're going to say, oh, well, that was experience. No, every fighter doesn't need that. Sometimes talent is enough to skip that experience back there. Sometimes just being ahead of being gifted. And I see those little qualities in Bam Rodriguez. He's a gifted fighter. He's ahead of the class.

And that's the reason he's able to skip, skip these, I guess, classes, skip these opponents that he's supposed to face and get to the level, the championship level. But he skipped it. All right. So who are you taking in this fight? Rodriguez or Sir Romis? Bam Rodriguez by decision.

I think he gets rocked. He will get checked. I mean, it's bound to happen, but I think this time he knows how to not exchange. Keep the punches and twos and fuse. And pot shot, he gets hurt, you know, keep the combinations fluid, but early. And later, just be comfortable on a comfortable decision. Do you think he can take the power of Soronga Sai? I think he could take the power if he doesn't get hit cleanly.

If he's not stationary, if he's moving, he can take the power because he can roll with the shots. But if he's actually, you know, in the pocket, flat-footed exchanging, no way. Nobody's going to be able to take those punches. the other factor in this is that his longtime trainer Robert Garcia was only part of half of this camp, the first four weeks or so of this camp. The other half, he was over in the UK working with Anthony Joshua. There was some continuity there. Robert's son, Jr., was the, basically the head trainer while Robert was gone. He's been part of every camp with Bam Rodriguez. But do you think that's a factor, not having your head trainer around? No, that all depends on the fighter. I think the fighter is

mentally weak and I know you I hate to say that because most fighters are not mentally weak but if they're needy and I ran a lot across a lot of fighters like this on the contender we weren't allowed to use our trainers and a lot of fighters they were they were like babies I need this I need my gym I need my certain type of gloves I need my trainer and I saw through that weakness and that's why I realized I had the upper hand some fighters don't need that I mean yes as long as they're fight night manics that's all that matters as long as you have that familiar voice when you need him And if you had a couple of weeks in camp to go over the things that you already know you have to do, you're going to be just fine.

And Robert Garcia is not one of these top class trainers. That's the only one that does this. Freddie Roach had a manage his time to do this. Emmanuel Stewart had a manage his time to do this. Whenever you're the top drawer of training, you're the top dog and you're demanded, you got to go where the money is because that's your career as well. You're not just focused on one fighter. You have a stable of fighters.

Eddie Ray Nose is another example. You go where the money is. you go where the opportunity is, and that's how you build your name and your legacy and your credentials as a trainer. Well, this is going to be the biggest test, no question of Bam Rodriguez's career.

And I'm very curious to see how he holds up to the power of so wrong beside because he cannot stand in front of this guy. You are infatuated with power. What is it with you and power with you? It's like a Napoleonic complex, but with power with you. Well, I spend a lot of time around you and you never had it.

And I did a lot of things without it because it's not needed. Technique is for speed of second. You know, my favorite thing about you is, didn't you tell me like. You are so infatuate. Didn't you tell me as a younger fighter, you fought South Paul and you had power at that point? I did. I did.

I did. I had power as a South Paul, but then I turned orthodox and it just went out the window because I had my lead hand in the front. So I had my power hand in the front, but I would get hit a lot more. If only you'd fought as a South Paul your entire career. No way, man. I came a long way with no power. That's true. That's true.

I'll always give you that. All right. Let's move to the heavyweight division for a second. Anthony Joshua and Alex and Ousick were both over in Saudi Arabia for the promotional press tour part of their heavyweight title fight. That is on August 20th. You got a good look at both these guys. You know what's going on in Joshua's world. You know what's been going on in Ussick's world.

What are your early thoughts on that rematch? The early thoughts are the same with everyone else's the consensus is nothing's going to change. Usoc is going to do the exact same thing and pot shot him from different. angles and maybe even maybe even stop him this time because he has that experience he got he got the timing down he knows what punches are going to land now joshua did make some adjustments and we know that that's what he does when he lost with Andy Ruiz he came back with a totally different game plan and was able to win the championship back again how much of that though was Andy Ruiz being an awful shape and not taking the rematch series you know usick's not like that listen is totally different

everyone can play devil's advocate with any type of fight i'm just sticking to what i see the game plan was different on his toes. Okay, what did you see in Andy Ruiz in that fight? A big tub of goo. In the words of Jim Lampley. I think that's what Jim Lampley said when introducing somebody. You forgot. But yeah, but look, that's how it is.

When I fought Vernon Forrest, how much of that was Vernon Forrest making adjustments to the rematch or me having Andy Ruiz type fun as well? I'm going to go a lot of you having Andrew Ruiz type fun is what I want to go with. And you will be right, but I'm not going to blame it on that. Was your training camp for that like six weeks? It was six weeks and I lost 28 pounds, but look, that's neither here or there. But what I'm telling you is I don't blame it on that. I'm a man.

I man up. I got beat by a great fighter, a legendary fighter, and, you know, that I won't. Wasn't there one point when you were like asleep under the bleachers in some way? You were trying to lose all that weight. Oh, man, it got bad. Trying to make weight back. They can have to fight one. And if you make it the wrong way, it's going to show and you will lose.

Especially when you spend most of your time at Caesar's Palace, table number 12. Hey, listen, now I have stock in Caesars. I'm doing okay. All right. So, AJ Usick, AJ's changes, all the change has gone through. How is it a positive? Is it a negative?

How do you see the new voices on his team? You know, we're going to find out, but I'm going to say. You hate change. I hate change. And I hate to poop on his changes because I know he's such a smart fighter. He's a strategic fighter. He's a businessman. Joshua is.

And I mean, from gold medal to unified heavyweight championship, of the world to losing it to regaining it these are things that only great fighters drew great champions heavyweight champions ali three-time champion evander holyfield lennox lewis every time they lost the title they would go back and to the same guy they wouldn't take an interim fight they will go back to the same guy and get what the bozers back and that's what you got to appreciate about anthony joshua he may not have the the the the resume of a of a of a great great fighter just yet but he's doing great things and he has a great mentality. He's not going to let that go. He wants who beat him and I want that belt back and I'm going to do whatever it takes. So you got to appreciate that. Yeah, but he's bringing in Robert

Garcia to be his head trainer. He's working with Angel Fernandez. I don't know what, if at all, Rob McCracken is with this team, but he's bringing, he's going to go into this fight with an entirely new strategy and he's doing it against a guy who is like the ice man of boxing. Like, you're not going to phase Alexander Usick. He has been a road warrior. every step of the way, going to Latvia, the U.K., the U.S., he's traveling the world, taking on big challenges. So going to Saudi Arabia doesn't mean anything to Alexander Usoc. Facing Joshua in a rematch is not going to bother Usoc.

Like he's going into this fight, and I'm expecting Sergio, like with Ruiz, you could see the weight gain and you could say that's probably not going to be the same guy on fight night. Usik, he's going to be the same guy or better on fight night. And that to me is Joshua's biggest challenge. That's why Joshua's going to be a big underdog, and that's why a lot of people, the business, are making Ussick, including myself. I think the exact same thing is going to happen. We're going to see flashes of Joshua and what he learned, but he's not going to be able to the entire time.

Atlanta to Osset to make the address. That's why he's so brilliant. He gets hit on one side. He's going to move, for you won't hit him on that one side again. Lomchenko does the exact same thing. They do lateral movement so brilliantly. and they confuse fighters. I call them boxing ballerinas.

I mean, because that's what they look like. They just look at their lower half. They look at their lower half. They look like ballerinas. They're beautiful fluid movement. And Usoc has that as well from that left-handed stance, and he just pox shots you from angles you don't expect coming. Yeah, I think it's going to be the exact same thing.

We will see flashes of Joshua. If we can see Usyk flustered by the aggression, we can see change, but I just don't see it happening. Is what happens to Joshua's career if he loses? Joshua's always going to have big fights. I mean, he can fill out of stadium. I mean, he's a superstar in the UK. I think if he loses it,

and depending on how he loses, by the way, lose the decision, which is probably what's going to happen. But if he loses a decision, he can go and fight one of these youngsters, Joe, well, not youngster, but Joyce. You know, that would be a big fight or a triple D. Dubois, that would be a big fight. I mean, there's a lot of big fights from across the pond.

Yeah, I mean, I think you'd have to rebuild his confidence, though. It would be probably a year to get him back to the world level once again. You probably have to fight him two or three times before you fight him against the top guy. No, guys like that don't lose their confidence, man. You lose two in a row? You don't lose your confidence? Yeah, but you lost two in a row. Lose your titles.

You don't lose your confidence? You lost two in a row to champions and you just realized maybe this is... Did you lose your confidence after losing your title? No, because I was 28. You know, Josh was a little older now. Oh, about 30, 31, whatever he is. Yeah, so maybe it's time for him to start thinking about the second chapter of his life. What was the weirdest weight?

How did you lose that weight? How did you lose 28 pounds in six weeks? A lot of work, not a lot of eating and a lot of saunas. It was disgusting, man. I got on wish it on my worst enemy. Speaking of which, you need to lose weight. Gee, thanks. I want that.

All right, so let's move on to a couple of things real quick. Katie Taylor, I reported this week that Katie Taylor is likely to face Chris Cyborg in a fight in a boxing match before the end of the year. Cyborg, of course, is... I love that. Yeah, it's interesting. I think it'll have some mainstream appeal, but Cyborg is a mixed martial artist. Katie Taylor is a boxer.

Why do you love Taylor versus Cyborg? Because Katie Taylor has given so much to boxing that she needs that big payday, that easy payday, that Jake Paul type payday. She's given everything as an amateur, one of those. gold medal for her country. She's given everything as a professional became undisputed. Her last handful of fights have been physical ones. You know, fights that you're not used to seeing her get hit like that. She's a boxing lifer and she demands that type of money now and I hope that she gets paid with that

crossover money. That Mayweather Connor McGregor money and I think Chris Cyborg brings that. Cyborg is a legend in MMA but in boxing any MMA artist that comes into boxing is going to get beat up because they're they're not focused 100% on one art on one style of fighting that's stand-up that's boxing just using your hands they're wrestling and choking and breaking thumbs and knees and all that that doesn't work when you're just the sweet science so i just think it's going to be an easy night for katie taylor it's going to be a major promotion because we've seen how she gets pushed now uh by by her promotional company on the biggest stages on the biggest venues and it's going to do big numbers so i love that fight now look i think it's a fight

trying to put in Las Vegas, I think it is a relatively easy fight for Katie Taylor. Our good friend Bob Torrens, the producer of the DeZone Boxing show. He is convinced that Chris Cyborg will put up a fight against Taylor. And that's what you want, right? Like, you want the MMA fans to believe

that their fighter can win, even though, Sergio, there is a 0.000% chance that Chris Cyborg beats Katie Taylor. It just doesn't happen. That's not a critique of Chris Cyborg. It's just a fact that MMA fighters cannot beat boxers. And Chris Cyborg, arguably the greatest female MMA fighter of all time, cannot beat Katie Taylor, arguably the greatest women's boxer of all time.

It's just not going to happen. So I think it's great that Cyborg fans are buying all the way in and thinking that their fighter can win. It's going to make the promotion do well. It's going to make the fight do well. But ultimately, it's going to be an easy payday. for Katie Taylor. And she deserves it

because she has had tough fight after tough fight over the last few years. A shout out to Bob Torren the greatest producer and editor and the zone has.

So shout out Bob Torrance. Anyway, P.T. Barnum Manick's the greatest promoter in promoter history. PT Barnum would say a sucker was born every minute. If you promote it well, they will come.

If you sell it well, they will come. He said it's something like that. I'm paraphrasing. But if you sell this fight the right way with the mixed martial artists, they're going to buy.

They're going to buy into it. Just like they did with Connor McGregor, and that's how they're doing with all these other YouTube fighters. I thought it was a fad, but it's not a fad. This is where we are now. This is where we are, and it will sell. Katie Taylor already has her boxing fan base. That's not going anywhere. That's international.

And Chris Cyborg, she's been around for, you know, decades now, it seems like. And she's been, she's a legend in mixed martial arts. I watch her fights. I love watching her fight. She's a beast. So I just think she brings her toughness, she brings her experience. But yeah, she's going to get beat, but she's going to get a big check with it, and she deserves it. Both fighters do.

But she's not a boxer, and she won't win. But it's going to be a circus. It's going to be a circus that's going to sound and do numbers, and that's all that matters. And look, with Amanda Serrano fighting in August, if Katie Taylor fights in December, they would love, a Katie Taylor's side has told me, they would love to make Taylor versus Serrano two. in Ireland in May of 2023. That's a huge event. And there is confidence

on the side of Taylor that the Ireland door is open, that in the aftermath of everything that's happened with Daniel Kenehan and the dissolvement of MTK, there is more confidence than ever that a Taylor fight in Ireland can

be made. Taylor has never fought professionally in Ireland. And I know Taylor's team is just salivating at the possibility of making Taylor versus Serrano 2 in Ireland. And I think that's a huge deal. So let Katie Taylor get a win, let her move forward, let Serrano get her confidence back in August. Maybe she fights one more time before the end of the year at 126.

Maybe she moves back up to 135 and we get Taylor versus Serrano too, which is the fight everybody wants to see anyway. So I'm all for that. I'm sure you are as well. Whether it's here or in Ireland, I think that fight does big numbers. I would love for it to do it in her home soil. She deserves all that. Katie Taylor deserves all that. I know I keep saying that word, but boxers need to fight for what they get.

They bleed for it. They earn it and still don't get it at the end sometimes. And it's a sad story. So sometimes whenever I see fighters like this hitting to their mid-30s, they're coming off the biggest fights of their life and still being there, but already showing signs of getting hit, of being old and already exiting. Their prime, I just want them to get paid, make a lot of money, and go off into the sunset because I know what it's like

to go off into the sunset broke because I've seen it. No, no, not me, but I've seen it too many times. You just said, I know what it's like. Yeah, because I've seen it too many times. I've seen too many kids with much more talent than I did, you know, just be broke or be stuttering their words or have nothing. You were broke at one point, like post-contender, post-forrest. You were broke at one point.

Well, not broke, but I wasn't making the exact same money. So I went from, you know, high six figures to making, you know, 50,000 a fight. Yeah. I had to get back to those six-figure fights. But no, I'm talking about broke, man. I'm talking about where you can't even get a fight or if you do get a fight, you're going to get overmatch for $5,000.

That's the truth. $5,000 for an overmatched fight. That's what $7,000 fights to get back to the big fights. That's what I call broke, you know. So Katie Taylor, I would never want her to see her going backwards like that. I wanted to cash out and look back at her career as the greatest female fighter. She is. She's never going to go broke because she is the greatest athlete in Irish sports history, arguably at least.

And I think she beats Cyborg and then we'll see what happens against Serrano later in the year. If they can put that fight ultimately together. Last thing for you, mentioning Amanda Serrano back August 6th on the undercard of Jake Paul versus Tommy Fury. If Jake Paul beats Tommy Fury, will you finally give Jake Paul some credit? Speaking of clowns and P.T. Barnum. circus ringleaders, you won't, you won't let it go.

You're not, you're not going to let this die. You're not going to let Jake Paul. People in boxing are willing to let it die. Yeah, I know, because they're part of the same charade. And if, if Jake Paul fights Tyson Fury,

is he going to be fighting a professional fighter? Tommy Fury. You keep saying Tyson, Tommy Fury. See, his name is irrelevant to me, even though he's popular, but I don't know him. I don't know Jake Paul and Logan Paul up until this point either,

but they're obviously, you know, stars in their own, Right. Yeah, you got to give him credit for fighting a professional fighter. But Tyson Fury, if you look at his record. Tommy Fury. Tommy Fury. For the love of God. Fury. Tommy Fury. Tommy Boy.

If you look at his record, it's embarrassing, Maddox. It's embarrassing. They're professional fighters. They got professional license. So we got to give them their credit. Yes, the professional fighters, any man that steps into that ring, you got to give all the credit to. So, yes, at least, at least Jake Paul's going in the right direction. But as a former champion, I look at it and still scoff. Well, you have to give him credit, though, for fighting a real fighter. You've been saying, and others have been saying, when is Jake Paul going to fight a real fighter?

Tommy Fury is a professional fighter. It's what he does, and he's got an undefeated record at this point. So if Jake Paul beats Tommy Fury, he will have done what people like you and others said he wouldn't do, right? Like, he's fighting a real fighter. Like, what do you want him to do? Like, what is a real fighter to you? Like, who should Jake Paul face to give himself some credibility? No, no, look, I'm not going to.

Chavez Jr.? With that given credibility? I'm not totally going to just criticize him. He's going the right direction. Give him credit for that. He is fighting a professional fighter, but if you want to nitpick, Tommy Fury is not the one that you should go for,

but it's a smart business deal. Tommy Fury is popular. He's a good-looking kid. He's undefeated, and he's technically, quote, unquote, a professional fighter. He is a professional fighter. And Jake Paul, if he beats him, I'd love to see him face Chavez Jr.

Or Anderson Silva, for that matter, who picked up a win over Chavez Jr. One of those two would be fine by me. There still are opponents out there for him. Chavez Jr. another guy that's been getting paid millions, millions of dollars for embarrassing the sport and continues getting opportunities. How much for you to fight Jake Paul at 175? At 175, I will do it for an even. 99,99, 99. We're 99 cents. Come on, Jake. Let's go.

When we come back, my conversation with Jesse Rodriguez. Fight fans come out swinging with a no sweat first bet on Fan Dual Sportsbook. Right now, new customers get up to 1,000. $1,000 back in free bets if your first bet doesn't win. Just sign up with the promo code boxing. Bet on who will win, knockouts, when the fight will end, and so much more. So if you haven't tried Fandul, now is the perfect time to give it a shot. Join now with the promo code boxing to get a no sweat first bet.

That's up to $1,000 back in free bets if your first bet doesn't win. Exclusively on the Fandul Sportsbook app. All right, Jesse, Bam Rodriguez is here on. Saturday, he will defend his WBC 115 pound championship against Srisa Katsarung Beside. Jesse, of course, fresh off the biggest win of his career decision over Carlos Quadras. Is that right, Jesse, biggest win of your career, would you call that that win? Of course, I was definitely the biggest win in my career. I had never faced an opponent like Carlos Guadas, a former world champion.

So a victory over him is definitely the biggest accomplishment in my career so far. San Antonio's favorite son is how Kevin Rooney of Matrono, he described. do. Is that that sound about right? It'll come one day for sure. I don't know about right now, but one day I will be caught that. What was it like growing up in San Antonio as some of the one to get into boxing? What kind of boxing climate was it here? Before I got into boxing, I had no interest in it. I wouldn't watch it. Wouldn't think about it. I never cared about it. So I was never in the boxing scene, but it didn't start until one day my brother went to the gym and being a little brother. You want to be just like your big brother. So I was like,

you know what I'm going to go to the gym and see what it's about. It took about two weeks before I actually started myself. And after that, I fell in love with it. It was something different. And boxing is a sport that you get to put your all into. And I really, that's something I admire about the sport. And that's why I stuck with it. Your brother, of course, Joshua Franco, contender, title holder, his own right.

And we were talking about this before we started. He's likely going to face Juan Francisco Estrada at some point at 115 pounds. So could be brothers in the same weight division. Did you guys talk about that possibility when you were growing up, fighting in the same weight class? Coming up, the talk was being a world champion at the same time. And I didn't expect to be in the same way class as my brother. I got the opportunity and I couldn't pass it up.

So I took it. I seized it and I stepped up to the play. And, I mean, it's just how it worked out. Your brother, if he beats Estrada, presumably he would rise pretty high in the WBC rankings, He may even be the number one contender. What happens if he's number one contender for your belt at 115? I'll vacate. I'll never fight my brother.

I don't know. I wouldn't even ask that because I don't know why anybody. People ask that Charlo's that all the time and it's ridiculous. Why would two brothers like slug it out to try to, you know, in a sport as dangerous as boxing? The Clitchco's once told me, I think Vladimir was one that told me this that like he, when he and his brother sparred his kids, like, he broke his leg once sparring. It was so vicious. I'm sure you sparred your brother when. you were younger.

And even maybe even, that was the last time you did spar your brother? I sparred him back in December, but it wasn't like no postpart. It was just more working with each other, giving each other tips and fixing our mistakes. So you'd vacate first.

Wouldn't you tell your brother, like, hey man, it's my belt. Why don't you go? There's three other sanctioning bodies around that. Let's go do with that. I mean, my brother has a skill to be anybody in this weight class, and it's just a matter of time before he gets this opportunity. So those belts, they're not safe with whoever has it.

It's just mine. Exactly. For people that don't know the backstory on this, you go by Jesse Rodriguez, your brother, Joshua Franco. Why the different last names? I got my father's last name. Josh got my mother's last name. That's because when Joshua was born, my parents, they weren't really, they weren't getting along together. So my mom's parents, they didn't really like my dad. So they made them split up. And my mom, I think she ended up moving up to Dallas or something like that. So whenever my brother was born, that, that's why. he has my mom's last name because my parents were really on good terms at the time. So then whenever I was born, everything was flowing well with my parents. So I got my dad's last name. You got the total familial last name, brother got.

Same parents, though. Of course, of course. And the other one that people are like, you have one of the better nicknames, I think, in boxing, just a boxing nickname. Bam Rodriguez. Simple. Where does that come from? Well, I've had this name since I was a little kid. It started as a bandbino, like from.

the baseball player. Okay, Babe Ruth. All right. Yeah. And then they changed it to Bambi like the deer. And then eventually I just outgrew that and it became BAM. Yeah. Bambi not so much a good boxing.

Bamb, for sure. Bambino I can even work with. Take me back to the Quadris fight because you collapsed in the ring right after that decision was announced. You could see the emotion on your face there. What did that moment mean to you? That moment, everything, before that fight, I had a world title shot.

It was scheduled on the Mikey Garcia versus Santa Martin Cardin, and that fell through. So it really hurt, and it was discouraging at that point. So when I got the opportunity to fight Carlos Guadalas, everything just happened for a reason. And after the fire already had knew it was in my favor and my decision. So when I officially heard it, that's when I really, really felt the happiness

and all the sacrifices, everything, all 12 years of boxing that all the, all the whole work, everything I put into the sport, it finally paid off, and it just felt so good, and that's why I collapsed. I couldn't believe it. You were preparing to be on that card originally, but took that fight on what, around a week's notice, six days to face Quadris. When you got in the ring and moved up in wait for that kind of fight, could you feel that you were in with a bigger, better fighter in that fight?

I wouldn't say a better fighter, but he was definitely stronger than my past opponent's given the fact that I was moving up to 115. It was my first fight in that weight class, so I did feel Carlos Quala was a little stronger than my past fights. But, you know, I never really showed that on my face. I just, I kept it to myself. I didn't even tell my team. I told him he was a little strong, but, you know,

it wasn't anything I couldn't handle. How long did it take you to adjust to that power? Did you have to adjust to the strength of an opponent that size? Yeah, I mean, maybe like the first three rounds, it was something different being in there with a former world champion. But after that, I was locked in the whole time, and I never really paid attention. But after the fight is when I really felt too,

I was sore for a few days, yeah. A few days? A few days, yeah. After you beat Quadris, you could have moved back down. Your plan was to fight at 112 before that fight. You have said this week you didn't plan on staying at 115. what made you decide to stay at this weight class? Once I got the bell, I was like, you know what, maybe I do want to defendants at least one time.

So I spoke with Robert and my father and everybody on my team, and, you know, it was a full agreement of, you know, maybe defending it once or twice, and that's why we're here. You are, said you are defending it one time. You're doing it against probably the strongest guy at 115, I would say, still. Even at 35 years old, Trisa Katsor-Rung Vesai can pop. going back and watching his fight against Estrada, and he lost that fight pretty clearly. But in like the 10th and 11th rounds, Estrada stood in front of him,

and he got whacked around a little bit in that fight. Take me through kind of how this fight came about and why you decided to accept a fight with So Rung Vassai. The reason I accepted this fight was because I'm the fighter that replaced Rung Vassai. Originally, he was supposed to fight Carl Squalas that night, but he got sick, so that's when I stepped in, and I'm the one that took the title opportunity, and now I have the belt, so I feel like he's a one fighter that does deserve the shot.

And like I said in my interview yesterday, I want to be a special fighter. I don't want to be no average fighter. Any other champion would have taken on an easy task, especially in their hometown. But I don't want to just be an other fighter. I want to be a legend when it's all set and done. So that's why I'm taking on these challenges. How different has the preparation for this fight been for Surung Visai as opposed to a guy like Quadris, who is strong, but maybe a little more slippery than Rung Bessai is.

I feel like Rung Mousai is a lot more flat-footed, so we've been working a lot on keeping the mid-distance, working half-distance, and during the quality fight, I was in the pocket a little too much, and I'm not going to be able to do that against Rung-Bissai. I could hear Robert Garcia, in between rounds that fight. Don't stand in front of them.

Don't stand in front of them over and over here. But it's just something inside me that wants to fight, but I became a lot smarter since that fight, and I know that Rung-Visai carries power through all 12 rounds, and I can't slip up. I have to be on my A game the whole time, and that's what we worked for in the gym for two months. Have you watched, I mean, I'm sure in preparation you've watched some Rungvisai,

but, I mean, he was part of some iconic fights over the years, whether it was against Estrada a couple of times. He demystified Chocolatito in his fight where he knocked him out. Like, what do you remember about watching him kind of growing up? Coming up, it was, I remember, like, damn, that dude hit hard as shit. Like, I'm not going to lie. Like, when I saw what he did to Chocolatito, it was just, it was shocked a work.

world and I mean I never imagined myself being in the ring with him but here I am and I'm more than ready I'm more than happy and to do it in front of my city of San Antonio just it makes it that much better and that more much more exciting you came up obviously watching those guys so rung visai chocolate Tito estrata guys are still fighting right now you have the win over quadris you're fighting uh so rungbissai is it in your mind like you know I have an opportunity maybe if I'm successful to beat all those guys from that era all the guys I grew up kind of watching and everybody was when they were fighting on HBO and they were making this division kind of cool for a while. Like it is in your mind like maybe I can fight them all and maybe beat them all.

Yeah, of course that makes training that much more motivating because like you said, there was four kings at the time. Carlos Quasasasas, Rangvichol Latito and Estrada and I already got the quadras so there's only three kings left and you know I'm taking another one on Saturday night and To get a win over Rungvastai just it'll be everything. For a fighter in the smaller weight classes like yourself like how important that you're was the visibility that those four guys got for at 115 pounds. Because I don't think a lot of people were paying much attention to that weight classes before those Superfly cards popped on HBO. Even Chocolatito Estrada 1 was, I don't even know if it was televised.

If it was, it wasn't a big deal. I mean, those HBO shows really put that division on the map, didn't they? Yeah, of course, back then, I'm not sure what year was, but, you know, they had the super flight tournaments or super flight cars, and I feel like that brought a lot of attention to the smaller weight divisions, and it's just going to keep getting better and better, especially with fighters like me, myself, and my brother, there's a lot more fighters at 115, 112,

and any of those fights being made between those weight classes just can't miss. You are trained by Robert Garcia. He is here in San Antonio for this fight, but he's also been splitting time between your camp and training Anthony, Joshua. How involved has he been with your camp and what impact has that had, if any, on your training? Well, I got to camp two months before this fight and we have Robert there for about three or four weeks and, you know, he really set the game plan before he left. So when he did leave,

it was no problem working with Junior and Chepin. My other two trainers, they're very experienced as well and I've been working with them since I was 15. So the chemistry has been there since I was a little kid and we're ready. We worked on the game plan that Robert left us and once Robert's in the corner, he's in a, I'm going to be the fighter that he expected. Should we expect to see a different type of fight than what we saw against quaders? It kind of goes back to the question about game plan, but again, they are different fighters. Should we expect to see a different Bam Rodriguez in this fight? I believe so.

During the Qualdez fight, I was a little more, I wanted to stay in the pocket and bra or, you know, really, really make my mark and pick up that title, but I have to be a lot more smarter with RongVisai. So, you know, we've been working on that game plan and we're ready to go out there and execute it. Is there going to be a part of you tempted to bang with him a little bit to see what he's got in there, to see what this heavy-handed guy has got at 115? I already know he's heavy-handed, so, I mean, I don't have to go and test it out. I'm going to be smart the whole 12 rounds. That's who we worked on.

And, you know, Robert will get after me if I did something like that. So I don't want to piss Robert off. He'll get after you. We'll be able to hear it in the broadcast the entire time. He's not shy nor quiet in that corner. You've got a lot to accomplish at 115 who's got to 115, but you're only, what, 22 years old at this point? Like, you're still growing into your body. As you look at your future, like, how big do you think you can get?

How high in weight do you think you can go? Eventually, I think at the end of my career, probably 126 or 130. Really? That high? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, you look around those divisions. Like, they've become the cool divisions now.

You look at Inouye-O-Way Donair with such a massive fight at 118. Stephen Fulton may be against the winner of Akhm Dahlia of Ronnie Rios. That's a big fight. I mean, do you look around at these other divisions say this could be cool down the line? Yeah, of course, you know, there's a lot of big fights to be made down the line. And to be a part of it, it would be a, it would just be the cherry on top for my career. You know, I'll be on my way out at that point. So a big fight and just, you know, retire after that.

It would just be amazing. You got a long way to go for you're on your way out. Yeah. I heard you sparked on Ronnie Rios for this fight. What do you think his chances are against Akamandalia? Ronnie's looking sharper than ever. I sparred him before these camps, and he wasn't really doing as well as he was for this camp, so he's really ready, and it's going to be an explosive fight,

and it will be a fight that you don't want to miss. And I believe Ronnie, hey, he has what it takes to pull it out, so I'm rooting for Rios. The last thing for you is what's it going to mean for you to kind of be introduced in your hometown as a world champion in front of that crowd, headlining an event against a potential future Hall of Fame, or like so running beside. What is that moment going to mean for you? It's going to mean everything.

It's been three years since I fought here in my hometown. And, you know, my name, it didn't really have much as it does now. So being a world champion defending it for the first time here in the city of San Antonio, which is going to feel amazing. And the crowd is going to be more motivation to pick up a win Saturday night. How different is fighting this time around as a champion than it was three years ago? You're hearing from more people? Is there like the ticket request jacking up?

I mean, social media has been crazy. My phone's been blowing up this whole week, but, I mean, it comes with being a world champion. That'll be for any fight, really. But three years ago, I was just about 5 and 0, 6 and 0, but now I'm 15 and 0, and I have a world title. So I have a lot more popularity in the city, and it's going to be an amazing night. It's going to be something special. Yeah, it's going to be a great event. Jesse, good luck to you, man.

I'm looking forward to seeing your back in action. And good for you for taking on a tough challenge, man. You, like, I like this about, you know, boxers now. Like, George Cambosa just did it. Like, he, you know, took on a tough challenge after winning all his titles. Here you are. You win that green belt, and you're going right into the ring against, against the banger and a real tough guy.

So good for you for doing that, man. Appreciate you, man. Thank you. When we come back, this week's picks brought to you by Fanduel. All right. Not my best week last week. I went with the upset, and I got burned. I gave you Joe Smith to win by decision.

and I mostly gave it to you because I thought the odds were astronomically bad. Joe Smith to win by decision was 13 to 1. Like you almost have to put money on that, don't you? Like you can't let a line like that go by. Turns out I was wrong. Archer Better Beavs great. Joe Smith couldn't withstand the power. Better B.F wins by knockout.

Hope everyone didn't lose too much money. This week, I'm going to give you another upset. And I'm more confident in this upset than I was last week. Sri Sikat Sorung-Vasai, who is taking on Jesse Rodriguez for the 115 pound title, a title that Sorong-Visai owned just, I think, three years ago. He is plus 400 right now to win this fight. He's older, he's 35, Jesse Rodriguez is 22. He did not look great in his last marquee fight,

which was against Juan Francisco Estrada, lost that by sound decision, and he's only had three relatively low-level wins since then. But I think this is a turn back the clock moment for Sorong Beside because he is the established 115 pounder. He has been at his weight class for a long time, whereas Jesse Rodriguez made his debut at 115 pounds. There's been some inconsistency, I want to say, in Jesse's camp with his longtime trainer, Robert Garcia, not being around for half the camp. I think this is a fight where Jesse is vulnerable. So I am taking Sorongvicide to win at plus 400.

The method of victory, that gets even better. Sorongvati's not going to outbox Jesse Rodriguez, but he can knock him out. And Sorongvati by knockout is plus 700 over at Fan Duel. So I think Sorongvati wins. Take that at plus 400. I think Sorong Vesai wins by knockout. Take that at plus 700.

This is the week where I get the money back. Everyone that bet on Joe Smith, I'm sorry. I took a chance. I thought Smith might box a little bit more. He came out, tried to go for a knockout himself. got stopped. So Rung Vassai, even in the early rounds, I think he's going to lose some of these early rounds.

He is going to pick up a late knockout. That is my prediction. Could be wrong. Jesse Rodriguez, excellent fighter. Might outbox him, but he's a smaller fighter. And Sorong Vesai, even at 35, still has real pop left in his punches. So those are my picks this week, brought to you by Fandor.