The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Amir Khan "This fight is a little more personal"

Episode Date: February 19, 2022

Dan Rafael the longtime boxing writer has his own newsletter over at substack, he stops by to run through all the news of the last couple of weeks. They dive into the latest with Ryan Garcia and react to his surprising news, and what should Devin Haney's attitude be towards certain fights. Later in the show, Amir Khan joins Chris to discuss how his upcoming fight with Kell Brook and why this fight has more meaning for him. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hosted by S.I's Chris Mannix. That was my moment. Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix. Boxing with Chris Mannix, part of the Volume Sports Podcast Network. And my guest this week, one of my guests. one of my favorites. Dan Rayfield, long time boxing writer. He is the writer of the great

newsletter Fight Freaks Unite. You can subscribe to that newsletter by going over to Substack. Easiest way to do it is go to Dan's Twitter account at Dan Rayfield One and sign up there. What's happening, Dan? Hey, Chris, how are you today? Good to talk to you again. I am doing pretty well. A lot of going on in the boxing world, though. And I want to cover a lot of ground here on this podcast. And Dan, let's start with some outside the ring news. And that involves Ryan Garcia, one of the biggest young stars in boxing, undefeated.

But off for a while. I had some mental health issues early in 2021, had some physical issues later in 2021. But he's scheduled to return in early April against Emmanuel Tago. And he will do it with a new trainer in his corner, Garcia announcing this past week, that he has parted ways with Eddie Rinozo and will team up with Joe Gousin for his next fight and presumably the fights beyond that. Give me a reaction to, I guess, surprising news that Garcia was splitting with Renoso. Well, you don't hear about a lot of guys leaving Eddie number one because he is considered, at least at this moment, probably the number one trainer in the sport.

He's the reigning trainer of the year. He obviously has been a huge reason why Kinello Alvarez has achieved the kind of success that he has. You know, he is the man behind Canello, both in terms of as a trainer as well as his manager, steering him in the, you know, in the business side as far as, you know, becoming a promotional and broadcast for agent and doing these short-term deals. And Canello being able to rake in, you know, huge amounts of money because of those short-term deals as well as just general popularity. So you don't hear about guys, you know, packing up and leaving that camp. But if you're going to... to leave Eddie Rinozo. Joe Gousson, in my opinion, has been one of the most underrated

trainers as long as I've covered boxing. He's, you know, I've been doing this over 20 years. Joe's been doing it a lot longer than that. He is a fantastic trainer. A great guy, you know, has the resume to back it up, has trained, you know, countless world champions and top guys over the years, you know, and he knows Ryan Garcia from the time that Ryan was a teenager when he was an amateur and he trained in Joe's gym in the Los Angeles area. And Joe had some hands on time with them. He got to know Ryan and his dad pretty well over the years, even though they weren't working together as professionals.

They always had, you know, from what both of them say, you know, a good relationship with each other, a friendly relationship. And so, you know, when Ryan decided to make the switch and, of course, you know, geography being part of it, Southern California, you know, it made a lot of sense. I mean, there's a lot of good trainers, especially in the Southern California area, but a lot of them have, have busy schedules and lots of fighters to deal with. Now, Joe has always been a guy that even though he's trained many, many top fighters, never kept a huge stable, never wanted a huge stable, never wanted to have to split his time between, you know, six, seven top guys. He liked to have a smaller group.

So I believe that that pairing, and this may be one of the reasons why Ryan, to ask Joe to be his trainer was because he'll get that very necessary one-on-one-one time. You know, he'll automatically become Joe Gousson's number one guy, you know, and all due respect to Ryan's abilities and where he's going possibly in terms of his star power and his talent. He just wasn't going to be number one in Eddie's gym. Canello, of course, is the king dog there. And, you know, he's preparing him for a fight in May, whoever he may fight. Not to mention he's preparing Oscar Valdez for April 30th and he has other fighters in his gym. So, you know, I don't feel like they broke up on bad terms

necessarily. But, you know, I don't think that he could go wrong, but working with Joe Goose. And Joe's a great trainer. It should be in the Hall of Fame someday. And, you know, and Eddie's a great trainer also. And it's good to have the options. Yeah, it is good to have an option like Joe Goosen, who, as you said, is excellent. And I remember talking to Joe a year and a half, two years ago for a story I wrote about Ryan. And he couldn't have been more complimentary of Ryan and a bigger believer in his skill set and always lamented. not being able to work with Ryan as a professional after working with him while he was coming up the amateur ranks. I guess the question I have, Dan, was like, why?

Like, was it as simple that Eddie Renoso didn't have as much time for him, in which case, it's a familiar story, as you well know in boxing? I mean, Jose Ramirez left Freddie Roach because he wanted more one-on-one time. More recently, Virgil Ortiz left Robert Garcia, in part because he wanted more one-on-one. time. When guys start to reach a certain level, they want the attentiveness that comes with being on that level. So that part of it, I understand. What I do wonder, Dan, is how much Canello's criticisms had to do with it. You know, last year, Canello came out and said Ryan was not as dedicated to boxing as he should have been. And how did Garcia take that? Was that one of the reasons that pushed him out the door? Because,

Because even if he wasn't getting the kind of attention that he may have wanted, he was in a good situation. He was working out with the reigning trainer of the year who had added things to his game that had made him better. He was in the gym every single day with the pound for pound king who works as hard as anyone in boxing. So he had a great trainer, a great boxing role model, and he chose to walk away from those things. So I guess I'd love to hear the truth about why Ryan elected to leave. Because, you know, his father said some things about Ryan wanting to start his own gym. I don't really get that. That was a weird one.

I do think that Canelo's very pointed criticism warranted, perhaps. I mean, that's a different story. But I do think that that stung Ryan in a major way. And I have no question in my mind whatsoever that that was part of the, the decision-making process. You know, perhaps he felt that he wasn't wanted there or that he was being unfairly criticized. Now, keep in mind, it's not that Canelo Alvarez was his trainer.

It was that Eddie Rinoza was his trainer. It was not Eddie Rinozo, at least not publicly that made those comments. It was Canelo Alvarez that made those comments. So, you know, just because another guy in the gym, even if he's the king of the gym, makes the comments, he's not your trainer. So I'm not sure that would have been enough to prompt some guys to leave for Ryan's purposes. it was a reason to leave. You know, having your own gym, I mean, he was in San Diego.

His new gym is in San Diego. So was he just taking a different left turn to get to the place where he's going to work out? I mean, I found that to be very hollow. But I do think, I think it's a combination of the criticism that he just, you know, wanted to get away from the negativity that he felt there was, maybe partly because of his, you know, to deal with his mental health issues. and part of it may very well have been that he did want to have more one-on-one time and be the main focus of the trainer, which he was just never going to be for the time being

in the Canelo gym with Eddie, period. Yeah. And again, I understand that. It's not an unfamiliar story. But I'll say this, you know, Joe's a great guy, excellent trainer. A lot of pressure on him now. If Ryan looks like he's taking some kind of step back, Joe's going to, right or wrong, Joe's going to absorb some of the blame for that.

Well, I'll tell you, I'll tell you how serious Joe Gousin is about this. I spoke to Joe on the night that the announcement that Ryan was switching came, and we had a conversation about the fact that they had worked together when he was an amateur and how much respect to have for each other and how much Joe thought of his abilities. You know, I believe that his comments were genuine or I don't think he would have taken the gig. But here's what tells me, as somebody who has known Joe for so many years, what what tells me that he's so serious about this. If you know Joe Gousson and all the great trainer,

all the great fighters that he has trained throughout his career, you know, I'm talking about Michael Nunn, Joel Casimir, Diego Corrales, Gabriel and Raphael Ruelas, you know, from the time they came up, many, many champions through the years. You know, even guys that didn't necessarily become champions,

but became top contenders, you know, working with guys like Chris Ariola, for example, in the heavyweight division. Here's the one thing you know about Joe Gusset. if you're going to train with him, you're coming to his gym and do things his way. He's not a guy that packs up and goes to a training camp in the mountains for six months or three months or whatever. But Joe made the commitment to Ryan Garcia to leave his home area in Los Angeles and go to San Diego, you know, three, four hours away, leave his family. And he's going to go live in San Diego and do a thing with Ryan Garcia.

I don't remember, I mean, correct me if I am wrong, perhaps somebody out there listening. But I don't I don't remember the last time Joe Guse and packed the bag and left. and went to somebody else's training campus and having them come to him. Now, I don't think it's that, look, Joe has been around a long time. It's not like he's dying for the money, okay? I think he genuinely believes in Ryan Garcia's talent, and that was one of the stipulations. Look, I want to work with you.

I hope you want to work with me, but if that's the case, we have to do it in my gym in San Diego. And Joe made the decision that it was worth the time and effort. That's how much he believes in the kid. Yeah, he really does. And he said this subsequently, and I remember him saying it to me a couple of years ago, that, and I took it as hyperbole at the time,

but he believes Ryan Garcia at his best cannot be beaten. Like he really believes that. That we'll see. Everybody can be beat, but I hear what he's saying. But yeah, but I mean, like, I wouldn't, like, I don't think he was saying that even about, like, Diego Corrales or certainly not Chris Harriola. Like, he just seems to believe there's something in Ryan Garcia's skill set

that makes him unbeatable if he's at his best. So I'm very curious to see how that dynamic works out, beginning April 9th against one one thing about it Chris yeah I know this right uh Ryan Garcia will get the very best what Joe's got to offer he you know he's not a guy that cuts corners his reputation has never been a guy that just rest on the laurels he's going to get everything he's got you know yeah including uh maybe a denim jacket that you can roll into the ring with as the that's a whole other podcast you do on Joe's fashion choices exactly all right let's talk about George Cambosis, the lightweight champion, who seems to be zeroing in on his next fight.

As we well know, the first two options, the main options for Cambosis were a unification-type fight against Devin Haney that would settle the WBC championship once and for all and a title defense against Vasily Lomachenko. Now, in the last few weeks, Ryan Garcia, some kind of arrangement there has emerged as a possibility. I saw Oscar Delahoya tweeting out on Wednesday night. You know, Cambosis, the most lucrative option for you is Ryan Garcia. I don't really disagree with that necessarily, but I don't think that's a front burner type of thing for Cambosis. It sure sounds like, Dan, that Cambosis is closing in on a deal

with Vasily Lomachenko. Lomachenko has done everything he possibly can to make sure that he gets this fight, whereas Devin Haney, you can make the argument has not. So what's your read in the situation about what Cambosis is going to do next? The short answer is I believe that come early June, he's going to be defending the title against Vassili Lomachenko in Australia in a late morning, early afternoon fight, Australia time to play to the prime time audience here on ESPN. They have the framework of a deal done. Really the only thing that it's lacking at the moment is for George to officially sign off on it. Top rank and Lou DeBella have made their agreements with one another.

One of the big factors that was keeping it from getting to the point where it was necessary for George to give the sign off was in Australia, similar to like in the United States, where the NFL rules down there, I guess it's Australian football rules. And think about if you were a United States promoter and you were trying to do a big fighting, you went to a stadium or to a league or to a team and asked them to move a game. You know, no one's moving an NFL game. They had to get the AFL to move a game out of the stadium. They want to use, I believe, in Nellborn, and they were able to get that done.

So before they could really take it to George for official sign-off, you know, they had to make sure that they could do all the behind-the-scenes stuff, which is one of the reasons why you haven't heard it being officially done just yet. But they apparently, from what I am told, have received the permission for that team to move their game to another site or another time or another date or whatever. But the point is making that stadium available for this fight. It's also the kind of situation where they're going to have a lot of government backing in terms of marketing, promotion, and the finances that flow into it. Those are things, you know, governments move like glaciers.

It's not like, you know, somebody that can just make a unilateral decision and say, okay, we're done and we're good. These things go through layers of bureaucracy, and this is no different. So taking that into account, it's actually moving pretty quick when you take into account all the things that needed to be done. So I do think it is, it's going to be a two-fight deal that they make between the Bella and top rank, Lomachenko. If, if George loses, he'll have a rematch clause. Keep in mind also that one of the things I think that was important to Cambosis is he doesn't want to lose the belts, he doesn't want to be stripped.

And there was pressure behind the scenes from top rank to the WBO. I am told to call the mandatory, which Lomachenko is the mandatory in the WBO. So that would satisfy that aspect also. but if you're going to have a mandatory challenger, you know, he's not one of these mandatory challengers that's kind of unknown and nobody knows about or cares about it or doesn't really want to see. Vasay Lomachenko is even without belts, arguably the number one lightweight and boxing in terms of this overall,

abilities, talents, who you would make the favorite in any of these matchups, even if George is the one that has the pedal. So I think that's the case. Ryan Garcia, without question, was number two in terms of the negotiations. I mean, it wasn't like they were doing it behind anybody's back. Everybody knew that they were filming other offers and making other offers and discussing these types of fights. The one thing I think that was the difference was George didn't want to have a meaningless fight, you know, against just a tune-up, regular guy, even if it was going to be a homecoming celebration. If he was going to go the Ryan Garcia route, it would have meant him fighting at home in Australia sometime in that June timeframe against some other opponent because Ryan is coming back from the injury and having his interim, you know, his tune-up, shake off the rust, you know, get to know Joe Gousin.

fight in April. And so George would have to win, Ryan would have to win, and then they would have each other in the fall. And of course, there'd be a rematch clause in that fight also. So that would really be more like a one-off and then a two-fight deal with Golden Boy and Garcia. I feel like they just didn't want to necessarily go that, unless the money was so overwhelmingly more. They didn't really want to have the regular fight. They wanted a big fight in the next fight. And I applaud George Campbell's for that. How many times, Chris, have we seen? seen guys, you know, reach the top, win a title, you know, be the top guy. And, and then rest on their laurels.

Take a soft touch. And I'm not even, I'm not even knocking that. I get it. It is a business and it is entertainment. You want to show the fans something. But George's built different than most guys. He wanted a real fight, whether it was going to be against Devin Haney, against Ryan Garcia, against Missilea Lomacheco.

He wanted a real guy in front of him in the next fight. The Devin Haney situation, oh, boy, have I seen a lot on Twitter about that. I'm sure you have also. Here's the reality. DeZone, which is going to help finance this fight in terms of the United States. A lot of people make the mistake that there's no other money except for DeZone. There's a huge amount of money in Australia for the pay-per-view, for the gate from the government, from the sponsors, a tremendous amount of money.

Of course, if you're going to do a DeZone fight in the United States, that's important. But they just didn't want that fight. Again, I like Devin Haney personally, and for everybody that's been criticizing me, If you said I had the right to make the fight I wanted to see in the next fight, I'd wave my magic wand and say, George Cambos says Devin Haney for the undisputed championship. End of story. But that's not how it works.

The people at DeZone and Eddie Hearn can say whatever he wants, whatever, they did not want this fight, period. They have spent massive amounts of money on Devin Haney. They've gotten very precious reward back for it. Ryan Garcia drives subscriptions. Devin Haney does. not. He was never a true option unless he came for so cheap, they couldn't turn it down. And that's not the case for Devon Haney. As far as the Lomachenko fight goes, that's not, that's on, that's an

ESPN situation. Top rank, of course, is looking to get their guy the biggest fight possible. And that certainly was the one. And, and therefore, the choice came down to we go and we make deals to do the U.S. with ESPN and Lomachenko or DeZone and Ryan Garcia. And I don't believe that Devin Haney, other than maybe at the very beginning, was ever truly legit for this fight. Again, nothing against Devin Haney, horrendous young fighter. And I don't subscribe to the nonsense

that he's not a true, a guy with a true title because he is. But, you know, as I said many times on Twitter and some of my columns and things, DeZone is the buyer. When you're the buyer, you have the right to choose what you're going to buy. If you walk into the, you know, to the grocery store, you get to decide, you know, you want the,

do you want the corn checks? He wants the Cheerios. I mean, that's the bottom line. You get to pick what you want, and they didn't want to buy Devin Haney. He wanted to buy Ryan Garcia. Yeah, the fight. The phrase, like, does he want the fight?

Or the question, does he want the fight? It's asked a lot in boxing. When it comes to Lomachenko, he wanted the fight. Like, he made it abundantly clear that this was the fight he wanted and come hell or high water, he wanted top right to do everything they possibly could to make that fight happen. To the point where I was told recently that, Lomachenko went to top rank and said, look, if there's a financial gap between me and

Cambosis, take a little bit from my side to make sure this fight ultimately happened. So he wanted the fight. Haney, I get what you're saying about whether DeZone wanted it or not. I just think the Haney talks got off on the wrong foot right away. Like they were, they immediately, you know, kind of became adversarial because of what the Haney side was asking for and what the Cambosis side was willing to give. And, you know, look, one thing you said there is like, unless it became so cheap for DeZone that they could just sign off on or do it, shouldn't that have been the attitude from Devin Haney?

He's made a boatload of money over the last couple of years. I mean, he has been, he's benefited greatly from this relationship with Eddie Hearn, specifically financially. Like this to me, Dan, was the kind of fight that if you have to take a haircut to do it, you go and do it. You got to go out there and you got to collect those things. You take you take a buzz cut. You let him shave it all off.

I agree. I agree. I mean, hold on. I mean, you've got to, like, you've got to do whatever it takes. I mean,

you're not going to make nothing. Like, Lomachenko might be taking, like, less than he wants, but he's still making low seven figures. Like, he's still going to get rich.

Like, I mean, and he's going to walk away. Lomachenko and Haney are just built differently in mentality. Lomachenko came into the boxing profession in terms of his, not as amateur. her but his pro career his stipulation with top rank when he signed with them he he wasn't asking for any kind of like crazy bonus a lot of guys that come in off two gold medals in the olympics and

they're looking for gigantic bonuses and huge minimums and all that kind of stuff lomachenko sat with bob ariman and his manager egus clemens and their main thing was yeah of course they got a bonus and they got generous minimums at all but nothing that was outlandish what lomachenko's main stipulation was can you get me a world championship fight in my pro debut And Bob tried, came back to them. This is going back when he signed and like, look, I can't get you the title fight in your debut. What I can do is we can fight a real guy in a regional title type fight, a 10-rounder in your debut. I can get you the title fight in your second pro fight.

And that's what he did. How many fighters do you know of? I don't know if there's any that exists, frankly, that would be willing to fight Orlando Salito, who was still, you know, at his best in their second professional fight. for the opportunity to fight for Tell him. Now, granted, he lost that fight on a very close decision. But his mentality was never about the money. He has made huge money.

But from day one, Lomachenko's always been about the challenge. You know, and he understands that if you are successful in boxing, and you take those challenges and you are successful more than not, that money is going to come anyway. So Lomachenko has made many, many millions of dollars. Has maybe over the years he's left a few dollars on the table? Absolutely. but he's got the legacy and the resume,

and he's going to be in the Hall of Fame someday, and he understood that the opportunity to fight for a bunch of titles that he once had and lost to T. Fima Lopez, that those opportunities, especially to collect them all in one night, are a few and far between, and he's going to do whatever it takes on the business end to make sure that George Cambos is a standing across the ring from him. If the fight doesn't happen,

it sure as heck isn't because the team Lomacheco hasn't given its best. effort to make the fight. And I think that that's the match that's going to happen. I think that George Cambosis is not scared of anybody. You know, if you're coming off that kind of career defining win to win those titles, the way he did in that great fight he had last fall with T. Fima López, and you select Nessaly Lomachenko in your next fight, you're not wired like regular guys. Devin Haney is wired different. And by the way, there's nothing wrong with that. This is a kid that didn't grow up with much, you know, and he's made a lot of money. He's enjoyed that, good for him. Doesn't make him a bad kid by any means whatsoever. But for him, the money was

certainly important. I can understand why Devin has felt extremely disrespected because of the fact that so many people disregard the WBC title belt that he has, even though to me it's just as legit as any other title out there. And so therefore, like you said, the negotiations may have gotten off on a tough stance. I knew it was too good to be true. I saw them in your interview, post-fight after Devin defeated Joseph Diaz and the talk was great. They want to fight each other. He's willing to go to Australia, do all the things that takes to happen.

But you and I have both been around long enough to know what gets said in a post-fight interview doesn't necessarily translate to the table, to the bargaining table after the fact. On top of this, by the way, it is by all sources I have talked to involved with this situation. Devin Haney and his father, Bill, are not vaccinated against COVID-19. And that's a problem. And you're not going to Australia if you're not vaxed. Alomachenko, meanwhile, saying, you need me to get a booster?

I'll get a booster. We already know he's vaxed because he fought in New York City against Richard Comey, where everybody that was there had to be vaccinated. So the vaccination status was also something that was holding things up. That would be disappointing the vaccine stuff, only because, I mean, I have the text message from Devin who told me he had the one shot already. And then I actually tweeted it out and he retweeted it. So, I mean, that would be a pretty bold lie if that was, that was the,

the case. But I do agree that Australia is not screwing around. You've got to get vaccinated in in order to, you know, participate in sports in that country. Just ask Novak Djokovic, who is a bigger star than anybody that's out there currently. By the way, in Australia's national tournament. Yeah. As far as. Yeah. If they're not making an exception for him, they're not making an exception for Devin Haney or any other athlete. Yeah. So I think when it comes to Cambosis, I think we are kind of on that proverbial one yard line when it comes to a deal with Lomachenko. If I'm Devin Haney, though, I saw him on social media tweeting out that he will take the

exact same deal that Lomachenko did. It's one thing to say that on Twitter. But if you're going to try to salvage this at the 11th hour, which I think is going to be extremely difficult, you need to, you know, push your promoter, push your manager, push anyone. Call Lou DeBella yourself if you have to. Not happening, Chris. I know, I know. But like, but like, you know, that's the only way to save this.

You have got to agree to take less than Loma Cheneckon. If that's even possible. There's nothing, as far as I understand, there's nothing to save. Well, I don't know that's true. I don't know that's true. I don't know that's right. I don't think they're like, so as far as I know, as we record this on Thursday, nothing has yet been presented to Campos.

So it's not like he's, you know, looking at paperwork right now on a Lomachenko fight. It's the deal is better from everything I've been able to gather. And I'm sure you have as well. Absolutely. I agree with that. But like, I think there's still. Again, I hate to use his football analogies, but a Hail Mary from Devin Haney to come in and say,

I'll take X, just make the fight happen, two fights in Australia. That's the other thing too. Like, Lomachenko is basically going to become an Australian resident for like the next year. Like, he's going to move there, basically, to have training camp there and do everything that comes with fighting twice in Australia. So if you're Haney and you really want this fight, find out what Lomachenko's doing and one up him. Do it one better.

Otherwise, you were going to lose out on this. And Dan, I don't know where he goes from there. Presumably he moves up to 140 pounds because there's nothing left for him at lightweight. Ryan Garcia is not going to fight him, at least not this year. And under these circumstances. So you go north and then what? Is it like, like Regis Progray? Like, I love the fight.

I don't know if we'd see that right off the bat. But there's not a lot for him. You know, immediately at 140 pounds, the titles are all owned by Josh Taylor. It puts him in a tough spot. he doesn't get this Cambosis fight. That's a good point. You know, he still is the WBC champion. He can still stay at lightweight.

I don't think he's necessarily outgrown the weight yet, even though. Well, he's come close. He's close. He's talked a lot about that. I was going to say, I remember when he signed with Eddie in the first place, and they did a press conference I was at in Las Vegas, they already were talking about, you know, within a couple of fights moving up. But as long as the money is what it's been at lightweight and there's halfway decent

opposition, you know, I think he can still probably do it for a couple of more fights. But yeah, he's a young fighter, but sort of at a crossroads, not because of his talent is compromised, but because the business part of it is compromised. It's not, like you said, there's not a realistic, um, fight to be made in my mind. Like I, I, I don't think Garcia would fight him, but I don't see why he wouldn't if the deal was right. I don't think a Tank Davis fight happens for a thousand reasons. Lomachenko was obviously going to be up a lightweight, uh, fighting Cambosis, you know, in a separate platform. doing his own thing. You know, he's got some decisions to make, but he's made very good money.

He has fought some solid opposition. You know, Jojo Diaz was a very good win for him. You know, we'll have to wait and see. I mean, right now, the lightweight world revolves around George Cambosis, even though there's maybe some bigger names out there, you know, whether it's Tank Davis or Ryan Garcia, you know, or Lomachenko, his opponent, whatever. The good thing is, it's a very talent-rich division. My great hope is that with all these guys, I mean, that they all fight each other. Right now, Lomachenko was the one that's doing that. He fought T. Ephemo. He's now on the verge of getting the fight with Cambosis. Cambois obviously had the mandatory against Tiefimo. But the other guys have yet to fight the other best guys. Tank Davis, Ryan, and then Devin have fought good opposition,

but not the very best opposition. Yeah, which is disappointing because, you know, a couple of years ago, We talk about the four princes or whatever we're going to call them in that division and nobody is fighting each other. All right. Let's move on and talk about what we saw this past weekend from Daniel Jacobs, the former middleweight champion who lost a very close, a little bit controversial decision to John Ryder over in the UK. I know Jacobs management was out there screaming that this was a robbery. I had Jacobs winning, Dan, but I've seen worse robberies. That was the worst. Yes.

That's not. That does not fit the description of a robbery. And Jacobs, if you know, if you got to point a finger, you don't really point at the judges necessarily. You point it kind of at yourself because he had some weird moments in the second half of that fight. I mean, he was cruising through the first six rounds. You get to the second half and all of a sudden he's like going south paw for long stretches of this fight. Never understood that.

Yeah, he's letting Ryder who's a smaller fighter get on the inside, mix it up a little bit with him. He opened the door for John Ryder to make a comeback. And look, you can say, oh, one of the judges gave the 12th round to ride or he should have done that. All that can be true. But in my mind, when I look at, if I'm ranking the reasons Daniel Jacobs lost, Daniel Jacobs is number one for how he fought the second half of that fight. I totally agree with you. I had the fight seven rounds to five in favor of Jacobs.

And there sometimes are seven-five fights where you can watch it a hundred times and you're going to always be seven-five. And you just can't see it being the other way. Kind of like, you know, a two-to-one baseball game is a real close game. It's still two to one. You know, I've watched Marvin Hagler against Sugar Ray Leonard. Who knows how many times? Every time I watch it, it's 7-5 Ray Leonard.

I can't find seven rounds to give to Marvin Hagler. End of story. In the fight between Jacobs and Ryder, obviously not the caliber fight of Leonard and Hagler, but in terms of the scoring, you know, there's a couple of close rounds there. You could have gone either way. I can't really argue with 75 one way or the other. I couldn't argue with 6 to 6. Personally, I did think it was 7 to 5.

Yes, you can look at the judge of scorecards individually and see how did they score certain rounds and question that. But like you said, at the end of the day, when you're up basically five rounds to one, perhaps six rounds to nothing, it's inexcusable for you not to win the fight. Danny Jacobs has been a hell of a fighter for a long time. He's a great guy. He's overcome cancer and done amazing things in boxing when people didn't think he was ever going to walk, perhaps live, much less become a championship level boxer again.

He did all of that. but he's not getting any younger. He was coming off a long layoff. He looked terrible in the fight before this against Rosado. He was very fortunate to get away from that fight with a split decision victory. And that's going to catch up to you. And when you sign on the dotted line to go fight in your opponent's hometown, home country, what have you. I'm not saying the judges did anything untoward.

They had a good judging panel on that fight. But the guys do sometimes get that benefit, not because there's corruption or anything like that, but they're human beings, the judges. They hear the crowd. You feel the energy. And John Ryder pressed the action big time in the second half of that fight. You know, it was one of those kind of fights where I really wish that our dear friend, the beloved Harold Letterman, was still around to give his view of what was going on late in that fight

with the effect of aggressiveness. I can hear Harold in my mind talking about that type of thing in that fight. Because John Ryder did that in large stretches over that second half of the fight. That's where he won this bout in the trenches. late in that fight. And if Danny Jacobs can't go into London or anywhere and beat John Ryder, another good guy, but not in my mind on that level that Danny has once been on, you got to really question what you're doing with the rest of your career.

You know, this is a loss and a terrible performance in the fight before that. I'm not sure where he's going at this point. Yeah, so let's talk about that because, you know, Jacobs is going to continue fighting. his manager, Keith Conley, believes he should be get the opportunity to go right back into another big fight. Should be treated as the winner of this fight, even though he didn't get the win. I'll say this.

At 35 years old, his options are limited, but I don't think he should remain at 168 pounds. Like, we've now seen three fights of Jacobs above 160, and all three have been uninspiring. The Julio Caesar Chavez Jr. fight, I mean, it kind of gets lost in the absurdity of the ending of that fight, but I didn't think Jacobs was any great shakes in that one. The Rosado fight was like, I'm looking for like a knife to put through my eyeball

was I try to remember that one. That was ugly. And then you have the rider fight where, look, you look good boxing early on and then didn't. Like he doesn't, at 168, Dan, he doesn't have like the speed or the size, and I don't say he's a powerful guy, but some of the power he had at 160 pounds. So if he's going to continue, I think he's got to go back down to 160 and try to get a big fight.

I'm still very much interested in Jacobs-Germal Charlo, if they're both still hanging around at 160. You want to do Jacobs Jaime Mungia at 160 pounds. I'd probably sign up for that at that point. But Jacobs at 168, I have seen nothing to make me believe he can fight at the highest level. Even if you give him credit for winning, That fight against Ryder, I don't mean to bash John Ryder, but it's John Ryder. He's a good fighter, but not a great one.

It's certainly not among the elite in the super middleweight division. I don't know what the point is if you can't win wide against John Ryder to continue chasing those other big names. I literally couldn't have said it any better. I mean, we don't agree on everything, but you said every single thing that I possibly could have said about that situation. The one thing I would say, though, is that, like you said, Danny has not showing the punching power as a super middleweight. has a middleweight, he's a tremendous puncher. I mean, he has a huge knockout ratio as a middleweight. And he's fought with guys in a middleweight.

Now, he didn't knock out, you know, some of the best guys he fought at middleweight. He didn't knock out Ganadi Golovkin, for example. He didn't knock out Canello or Devinchenko, but he's kind of a huge amount of knockouts. You know, it's not, I'm not sure if he has a desire or the ability to return to 160 pounds. But I do think that, you know, look, he, he's on a fight by fight basis now with Eddie. So promotionally, he can pretty much do what he wants to do. Even though he was once an Al-Haman fighter, they've always maintained a relationship. His manager, Keith Conley, still has a lot of business with Haman.

There's respect there. They can absolutely do business. I do think that if Charlo does not end up getting the fight with Canelo Alvarez, that has been one of the possibilities for Canello in the spring, that that would be a good alternative. And you know what, as a boxing fan, whether they did it at 168, whether they did it at 160 for Charlo's title. They did it at a catchweight in between.

You know what? If I'm going to watch Danny Jacobs fight and I'm going to watch Charlo fight and it's not going to be against, you know, one of the other champions or Canello fight for that matter, you know, sign me up. I'm down for Charlo versus Jacobs. That's a good matchup. They'll talk it up.

They have, you know, they have styles that probably would go well together in the ring. You know, I think that's an appealing fight. You know, it remains to be seen whether they can make that financially there it is. This is what I said to people in Jacobs camp. I'm like, all right, you know, Charlo Jacobs, good, great fight. Who's paying for it? Like, where's the money come from? Because both those guys are going to want seven figures, low seven figures for that fight to happen. They can get that money. It's just a matter of how money, how many seven figures. I can see that absolutely being a quality fight on Showtime.

I ain't paying for that. You know they're not paying for that. Like, that's too much. Why? Because I don't believe that deal gets done unless Charlo and Jacobs get a combined package in excess of $6 million. Like, I don't see how it happens. I don't, and then you talk to pay-per-view. You have to at least do the due diligence and find out what the asking prices are. Now, don't forget also, PBC has been doing with Fox pay-per-view fights. They put Keith Thurman versus Mario Barrios on pay-per-view.

They put on the heavyweight lineup of fights on pay-per-view on New Year's Day that, was a lower price point, but nonetheless, a paperview anyway. Yeah, but the combined paper viewership was like, you know, the tenants at Mount Snow in Vermont. Like, I don't like this. But at $6 million, let's say your number is accurate. And if they're in for $6 million, that's the kind of fight on pay-per-view that could actually not lose them money. In other words, the notion of pay-per-view, I think it's not lost on you, but I do think it is lost on some people. it's not irrelevant what the number of buys are or how much the price is the only thing that matters when you're doing a pay-per-view fight is do you spend less on the event than you take in and if they could do that fight I could see that being a pox pay-per-view that would actually not do huge pay-per-view numbers but probably enough to support the event and again I don't discount showtime's ability to perhaps finance that if it's a showtime

That's great. Like, I'd watch that on showtime. I just think, I mean, paperview is just a tough sell, especially with Jacobs coming off. You know, Charlo is being inactive. Jacobs coming off back-to-back lackluster performances. I'm just not sure who's buying that. I'd watch it. And of course, I'd buy it, as you would, as someone that covers the sport.

But like the casual fan, I don't know. I don't see it. I just, I think that's a tough sell on payper-view. But we'll see. I hope Jacobs drops back down to 160. see him making a run in that weight division. But at 168, I think that it's over. All right.

I want to move on to the aforementioned Jaime Mungia, who is going to be in his hometown of Tijuana, Mexico this weekend, taking on Demetrius Ballard, his first fight of 2022. His fifth fight now, Dan, at middleweight. I'm not, to say the least, I'm not overly impressed with the matchmaking here. Demetrius Ballard fought on the undercard. of Hyman McGeah in his last spot. Imagine an Olympics

where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont. Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Then you're finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. to look back at it on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Keer Games.

And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch life becomes about wins and losses Steve Burns Dustin Ross because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid because that's two different

intentions bro absolutely and that that's two different levels of trust I want you to just really be a good person join me Keer games is we have real conversations about healing growth fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. He beat Paul Valenzuela by decision. That's kind of been the theme in a way for Jaime Mungia. Gabe Rosado fought in his undercard.

He got a fight with Jaime Mungia. Demetrius Ballad fights in the undercard. He faces Hybe Mungia. But five fights in now, Dan. At 160 pounds, I was willing to give Mungia a couple of fights to get acclimated to a new weight class. But five, we are now in year three of Jaime Mungia as a middleweight and his biggest win. I don't know why you're pulling your hair out.

It's very obvious. They just weren't interested in stepping up to fight the top guys. That's all. I mean, again, there's nothing wrong with that. That's their choice. When he got to 60, having given up the title from the WBO at 154 pounds, based on their rules, he could have immediately asked to become the mandatory, as many fighters have done in the past.

Terence Crawford did it, you know, Demetri's Andre did it. There's others who have done it, and then Jaime could have done the same thing. They made the decision to get more acclimated, to take the time to work with Eric Morales when he switched trainers, et cetera. And, you know, they just weren't interested in doing that. I mean, it's very obvious. The matchmaking, you know, not the most impressive matchup I've ever seen. That said, as I wrote in my column today, I like watching Jaime McGee. So, you know, I'm happy to watch.

But I'd like to see him tested against a top guy. He's a very aggressive fighter. He's got good punching power. I think he takes a good punch. He may not be super fast and super skilled. But what he's got in his heart and the mentality of go get you, that can deliver you to some big wins. And I'm not sure why they've been so reticent to do that.

He's the kind of fighter that has the kind of style. If he takes a loss, he cares. Do you not going to watch Mongia because he's got an elf against maybe a guy that might have outslick him for seven rounds in a fight. I mean, so I don't get that. But, you know, he hasn't fought at home in several years. This is a chance to go home, fight in a famous place in the venue that they're going to be in Tijuana.

I mean, honestly, as much as I enjoy watching Hyman-Mungia fight, I'm actually more interested in terms of the fight on the weekend to see the lightweight undefeated knockout artist Williams Zapata in his matchup. He's a very exciting fighter. one of the best on the coming guys. We talked a little bit about, you know, the depth of the lightweight division and the guys that are doing damage there. We talked about the big games. Williams Zepeda is going to become like the boogeyman there.

Not a lot of guys are going to want to fight him in my mind. This is another chance to see this kid develop and see what he can do. He, you know, the Golden Boy has been bringing him along. You know, Eric Gomez had said to me, I was writing like a round above the prospects at the end of 2021. Zepeda was on that list. And, you know, he was telling me essentially, look, we're going to give him a couple of more fights. but we're ready, you know, later in 2022 to turn him loose and, you know, field any offer against any top guy.

They believe in them and, you know, we're going to get the chance to see him again on that undercard against not a well-known opponent, but, you know, he's going to get a good exposure and, you know, we'll see if he looks good and then can put his name into the, into the mix in the lightweight division. And Mungia, you know, he's going to, you know, I call, keep the chains moving. You know, we know what he wants to fight like a Glovkin type fight and get that, that payday and that sort of opportunity. That seems like it's a long way away.

So, Mangias, I won't say he's spinning his wheels, but he's kind of spinning his wheels. Yeah, well, on Zepeda. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey

from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators,

and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth.

Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose

on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. I love him too. Like, I first saw him fight really on that NBC Sports Network series when he won and look great. Then he goes out and beats a good prospect.

to Tanahara and he becomes the prospect himself after that fight. I mean, he is. Well, the Tanahara, that was the win that made him. Yeah. To the degenerates like us, sort of the eye-opener guy, you know, because Tanahara had a lot of hype behind him and it was a terrific actor and, you know, had been looking pretty solid and good and been talked about for bigger fights as a pro. And to seize a Peta, not just a win, but like basically just grind them down and make the corner stop the fight.

You're like, okay, I got to see more of this guy's a Peta. He's one of those guys. and it's not apples to apples, but he's like a Ruslan Pravodnikov or an Archer Better Beav. Like where if you're going to beat him, you got to keep him off you for 12 rounds. And that's not easy because he just keeps coming

and coming and coming and throwing punches. With Mungia, like the Andrade stuff drives me a little bit crazy. Because I mean... Hold on, hold on. Something with Andre drives you crazy, Chris? It does, it does. But like, you know, I never believe that. I said this Derek Gomez was on a podcast back in December.

And I'm like, why are you guys like fighting, like eliminators. Like you have a world champion and Andrea being like, hello, I'm right here. You can fight me. Whatever you want. They just don't want that fight.

I know. But you know what, like Gomez kind of opened the door to it back in December. I know they were chasing Gennady Golofkin. This is a different conversation, but it sure sounds like Golofkin's going to be part

of this next Canelo package with the zone. So Galofkin's going to be tied up with Ryota Marada in the next couple of months. And then if all goes well, Canelo before the end of the year, which may be the last. fight of his career. If, if Canello takes that deal, he's got the offer from PBC also. Yeah, I get the sense. I get the sense he's going to take it though. Like I,

no, but here's the reason why I'm, I'm not disagreeing with it, but the reason why it made change is because the original offer, as I have, my understanding was for the one fight with Charlo for the May fight. But there was the two fight package on the table, uh, from PBC, from, uh, from, Eddie and from the zone to do the, the, uh, you know, go the other direction, you know, culminating with the second the third fight against Velovka. But the PBC people, my understanding is they added a second fight to that deal to do the September

fight against David Benavides. If he wins his may fight against David Lemieux, and both packages, you know, worth in the same ballpark. You know, we're talking somewhere between $90 to $100 million to fight offers. And, you know, the question is now from Canelo's people, do we go Charlo Benavides? Here we go Bival, Triple G. Now, as you, I think, have

written as I have written and said, I never understood why you'd have to bind yourself the one two fight offer or the other two fight offer. Canello has such exorbitant leverage to do what he wants to do. He could pick and say what he wants. I want Charlo and do one fight that they offered and then go back to Eddie and DeZone and say, I don't need to fight Bivol. Let me go right to the Golofkin fight. That's the biggest money fight, obviously. So if you tell me that as a fan, would you rather see, These are the possibilities. Canelo versus Charlo then Golovkin three. Canelo versus Charlo-Benevino-Benevarez or Schenello versus Bevall Triple G3.

I have those three possibilities, I'd much rather see Charlo Triple G3. You know, I love the Benavides fight also, but that's going to be there. And honestly, the Beavol fight does absolutely nothing for me. I just don't find it to be an attractive matchup. It's maybe a tough fight. I don't think it's exciting. Bival, you know, we talked about how indistinguished guys looked in recent fights like Danny Jacobs, Beville might be the one guy that could challenge Danny Jacobs for looking not so great in his last two fights.

So, you know, Canello and his people can sit down and figure out what they feel like is the best possible scenario and make their selection. But I don't think it's a guarantee, while it's certainly possible, that he's going to go that Bival Triple G route. Yeah, you're right. Anything can happen in the next couple of days. I don't work down the Canello Road just yet because I'll wait until he signs on and we can. kind of dissect his decision. We're kind of all over the place. I'm just like, but I want to kind of zero wind on Mungia, though, because like, like,

let's say, so he takes this fight and let's say Canello does go the triple G route. Like, after this fight, what does he do? Like, do you keep fighting like the Carlos Adamez's of the world? Like, like Andrade is moving up to 168. Jamal Charlo, presumably one way of the other is going to go up to 168. Like, all of a sudden, you know, Mungia is kind of looking around. Yeah, he can collect a title, but you're going to probably do it fighting, you know, guys that nobody's really all interested in seeing you fight at this point. I just, I feel like there was a window for him to, you know, test his skills.

Like, Andrei would have been a great test of skills. Like, you kind of alluded to it. Like, what if he loses by being outboxed by a slick boxer, that's Demetrius Andrick, right? Like, he could lose that fight, but Andrew's not going to beat him up. And quite frankly, the idea that Andrade would dominate Jaime Mungia, anyone that says that, has not watched enough of Jaime Mungia and Demetrius Andrade over the last couple of years. Mungia is better. Like Eric Morales, even though he's completely ditched defense,

he has made Mungia into an offensive machine. Like he is a very, very, very good offensive fighter. Whereas Demetrius Andrade, as skilled as he is, he gets tagged with punches. He's not the most active puncher at times, whereas Mungia throws like 70 punches around. Like he is an active guy in the middleweight division. So I just, I feel like that might have been an opportunity that has now been missed with Andrade moving up. Yeah, it probably has been. But I don't think there's been huge public demand to see Mongia versus Andrade.

Unfortunately, there hasn't been a lot of demand for anybody who's against Andre. So I understand. I'd be, I'd be interested in that fight just because it does match two of the top guys and whatever happens, happens. You know, you mentioned Carlos Adamas, maybe not the most well-known guy. But that would be a pretty good fight, actually. Adamas is a very rugged fighter, comes forward also, has some skills. I think he takes a good shot. Power is pretty solid.

That would probably be, I think, kind of a fun trench fight. That would be something interesting, but it's not the most sexy because, you know, the name recognition of Adamas is just not there. But I'm not that worried about Jaime Mungi. He's not at a point where the money he's making me so overwhelming that there's not going to be somebody still willing to put him on as part of the programming package. So if Golden Boy and DZone are doing. fights regularly and you're in for a couple of Jaime Mungia fights a year, maybe three fights a year.

I don't think that's a problem for anybody. You know, he has a popularity among the Mexican fans. If you like action fighters, people want to watch them. You know, he needs, though, I think, a bigger name opponent. And for whatever reason, and I don't think this is a Golden Boy issue. I think this is like a team Mungi issue. They have not been vocal in any way, shape, or form about really stepping up and taking on an opponent that is more recognizable to the public or the press or whatever and they're content to do what they're doing

and ballard is another example of that fight i think mongia would be would beat a lot of these guys i think he's really good he's got a good chin he's got good power active as i said like he's a good fighter i just i'd like to see him test himself at some point this year all right let's finish with the slobber knocker of a fight over in the uk dan the washed olympics between amir khan and Calbrook. Amir Khan, a 2019 knockout victim of Terrence Crawford. Kelbrook, a 2020 knockout victim of Terrence Crawford. Still two wildly popular guys over in the UK. One is a Canelo Alvarez knockout victim.

One is a Triple G knockout victim. Correct. So they've been knocked out by some of the best in boxing. This fight sold out reportedly in like less than an hour. So, I mean, this is still a marketable fight over in the UK. I put it to you this way, Dan. Are you excited about Amir Khan versus Kellbrook? I don't think excitement is the proper way to describe it.

I'm going to watch it because I'm a degenerate and that's what I do. Look, I understand that they're fighting each other that in England where they have been big names for a very long time, you know, it is still a popular and marketable fight. I felt like it would have been a, it's going to be a bonanza for them. Skybox office is going to be a pay-per-view over there. They're going to do good business. Obviously, the arena sold out, like you said, in, you know, under an hour. I thought I had read like 20 minutes to sell the place. So, you know, it's going to do good business over there.

It's, you know, obviously top rank for part of its ESPN Plus budget towards it. So they're giving it a real. It's not just a, it's not just a doubt they're picking up for ESPN Plus. They're actually putting some resources and some production behind it. And they have some of their staff over there, which is going to stay through until next week because they have the Josh Taylor defense in the UK also. But so there's money being spent on the from the United States side of this thing. So they're treating it like a big fight, even if there's no titles. You look, we all know this is the cash out fight.

All their careers, Con and and Brooke have been fighting. They fought lots of good opponents. They've been in some big fights. And it got to a point where there's nothing left for them to fight where they can make a real payday in a fight that is. interesting to the public. And after many, many tries, I'm trying to get this fight done with, with blame to be cast on both sides over the years, they finally have come together to make this fight. And, you know, it's like loser go home, maybe even winner go home. Oh, I think it's both. I think it's go home for everybody. Yeah, I mean, I get, I get why

the British public is into it, you know. I mean, I'm interested just from like the standpoint of, like, I'm also interested, like, I see a car wreck on the side of the road. I look at my window and rubberneck a little bit. So from that standpoint, I am a little bit. But I will be thinking all through this fight, like, why didn't we see this five or six years ago when it would have literally been one of the best fights you can make in boxing? You know, you want to talk about a fight and sell by date. It is from the aesthetic point of view, but I guess from the public in the UK, it's not. And look, you know, you can't, they want to see the fight. They're getting the fight. I mean, again, it's later than it should have been. We're going to see it. Whatever happens

you know, and if you listen to, I've been watching a lot of the UK reports by the fight, some of the, some of the clips from Sky Sports, some of the, some of the YouTube channels that have been, have been covering this fight, you know, that are UK-based YouTube folks. They really think this means something. They really think I was watching Adam Smith, my good pal who, you know, is one of the executives who's been involved in running Sky Sports boxing business for a very long time. I've known Adam for probably 20 years. like he's talking about in the interview that of everything that these two guys have done in their careers, the titles that they have won and the big fights that they have had, this is the one they're going to be remembered for.

And that kind of surprised me. I'm like, really? You mean, Kell Brooks not going to be remembered for coming and fighting Sean Porter in Sean Porter's home country and straight up beating him for the welterweight title. And Amir Khan's not going to be remembered for, you know, everything from an Olympic silver medal all the way through, you know, coming to America and having, you know, a whole whole thing. series of big fights and beating some good guys, you know, just just a tremendous amount of attention on some of those matches that, that at the end of his career, a Kelbrook fight, you know, like you said, the Washington Olympics, that's what he's going to be remembered for. I mean, we're Americans, our perspective is different. Over there, it seems like that's what they're

going to be remembered for. And they're both getting paid well for this fight, I guess, and, you know, good for them. So, you know, I'm not, it's kind of like if you had, you know, I don't, I'm not even I'm not even sure. I have so many mixed emotions on this one. I'm not even sure how to explain it. I think it was you, Dan, that tweeted out the magazine picture of like, was it Kellbrook from 2005, like talking about Amir Khan or what are the other like that? Well, that was a, I believe that was original, I retweeted that with a comment. It was the original tweet was from my pal Matt Christie, who was the editor-in-chief of boxing news, the outstanding weekly magazine that comes out. in the UK that's been around for like 100 years.

And I guess that was when the genesis of the possibility. I hear they love me. They love me. They love me. They love me. No, they love you. They love you. They rip you every week.

No, but that was not like, that was like a mention of it. It didn't really become something that could conceivably be made because they were separated by a lot of weight, a lot of experience, a lot of years, et cetera, at that point in terms of their pro careers. But the point was it was first mentioned as even something to germinate to think about for the future 17 years ago.

But again, it didn't really become something that people wanted to see until it was like legit, but it's still probably been like seven or eight years or nine years. And they went through their primes and had other fights. They are the same age chronologically. They're both 35, if I'm not mistaken. But this is the end of their careers. They may still go on and have other bouts, but I don't know if they're going to ever get involved in a fight of this caliber for the rest of their careers.

And, uh, you know, I also, Dan, I also don't know, I don't know who wins. I mean, both these guys have been chinny over their careers. Kel Brooks going to have to come back down to 149, which, you know, he's not comfortable doing. Um, Khan stipulated that. So that might make him a little bit more cheney being, you know, weight drained going into this fight. Uh, con, I saw a quote from Khan doing prep for this podcast where he's like, I was fat. Kelbrook is the only one that got me back in the gym.

Like what are we doing here right now? But it can be fun. I wouldn't call Kelbrook Cheney because to me that's a guy who's, you know, knocked down all the time or, you know, gets knocked out regularly. You know, Khan is the chinny one. Yeah. Because he has been laid cold on multiple occasions. The occasions where Kelbrook has been defeated have been on his feet or injuries, you know, when he lost two, Errol Spence, for example, when he lost his world. He was not knocked out. He was injured. He had a broken orbit bone. When he got stopped by Golofkin, it was another orbit bone on the other side of his face. Again, he gave Triple G a pretty good fight for a couple of rounds. And in the case of the Terrence Crawford fight, again, it wasn't laid out cold, just, you know, got beat up and they stopped the fight. Kel, I think's got a much better chin than Ameri Khan. I think Khan's probably got better one-punch power than Kelbrook does. I think Khan is probably the more technically skilled and speed, absolutely. I think that Brooks got to,

a bigger heart than Khan. You know, we're going to find out. I mean, as we're talking about it, like, I guess I'm getting a little more excited about it. What can I say? You know, last thing on Khan, like, his career, to me will always be a little bit disappointing. This is only going to be, I think, his seventh fight since 2015. Like, there was a time, Dan, and you were covering it. Like, when Amir Khan looked like the next big thing.

And then came those back-to-back losses to Lamont Peterson, to Danny Garcia, And I hope he got robbed against Peterson. He did. He did. He did. Garcia beat him Farrant Square, though. Knocked him out. Like that was a legitimate one.

And then like his inactivity, he became one of those guys that was like a caught up chasing fights. Like how many times do we have to write about Khan chasing Floyd Mayweather, a mani Pachiao? And that kind of derailed him and prevented him for being as active as he needed to be. He went all credit for going up and wait for the money grab that was Canelo Alvarez. He got stomped out in that fight. Even though he was fighting pretty well.

until he got knocked out. But I'll always wonder what if with Amir Khan because there was like a three-year window when it's like, is this the heir apparent to the aging generation? Would this be that next big star? And it never quite played out that way. That's fair point.

But, you know, look, he did go up and take the challenge against Canello, whether you're calling him, money grab or not, the same way that Kelbrook did against Golovkin when nobody would fight Kelbrook at Walterweight and nobody would fight Triple G at middleweight and they made that deal.

Remember, that was a deal that was supposed, to be Ghanady Golofkin against Chris Eubang Jr. And when Ubang Jr. said no, Eddie Hearn presented Kellbrook, put the same offer, and Kelbrook jumped at it. So I give both of those guys. I mean, we can mock the age and how spoiled this fight is and all that. But I have to say, in all seriousness, I have ample respect for both fighters. They have been willing to fight the top guys and move up and wait.

And Khan had that stretch, like you mentioned, where he fought some good guys. You know, even when he got knocked out by Danny Garcia, he pretty much dominated the fight until he got clipped, which is sort of the, what has happened in some of his losses where he does very well and then you know gallitz get turned out but he had some very good wins you know he unified titles against zab judah he beat up on paulie malanagie came to polly's hometown and did it um you know he has other significant victories uh and fought other top guys i mean amyri con is no joke and i mean i know that people can look at the memes of him getting knocked out and all that but you know it it takes courage to do what he's

done knowing that you don't have the greatest chin and still going in there and fight and the best guys. And with Kelbrook dealing with those types of injuries, you know, he was the mandatory, Errol Spence was his mandatory, but he didn't duck or dodge it. He fought Aral Spence when no one else wanted to fight Earl Spence. So you have to give respect to both of these guys for the types of opponents they have fought. You know, the resume is the resume. And when you go and you look down, when these guys are long retired, you know, you may not necessarily remember every single fight. But if you look and say, oh, those are a lot of good names that show up on on their ledger. And, oh, by the way, they fought each other. Yes, it was at the end of their

period. Yes, we can kind of make jokes around about, you know, how it hasn't necessarily aged as well as it may have. But, you know, I still give these guys respect. They've been, you know, top class fighters for a long time. And, you know, I'm not going to discount their, their desire to win this fight. Because, again, I don't necessarily see it where some of the Brits see this is like the fight that they're going to be remembered by. But if they think that's the way that they're going to be remembered by. You know that come Saturday, they're going to walk in that ring, give everything they've got. You can say whatever you want, but, you know, they, I think, in their heart, they don't like each other, number one, and they want to win. It's, you know,

the fight for Britain, I guess. I mean, it's, it's kind of like, but not the same thing. I think you were there. Remember when Malinaji fought Zab Judah was, I mean, the fight for New York, the bragging rights? There was no titles at stake. There was no big, you know, big, pound for pound conversation or anything, but it was like, I'm fighting my homie in our hometown and, you know, who's going to be able to say I'm the king of Brooklyn? Or it was similar. I mean, there was a title at stake, but kind of like finally when Abner Morris fought Leo Santa Cruz in Los Angeles, the battle for Los Angeles. Yes, there was a featherweight belt at stake. But more so than that, they wanted to be known as I'm the baddest guy in my neighborhood. And they fought each other twice.

They were both excellent fights. Santa Cruz obviously got the better of. it and, you know, he's the king of L.A. at the net weight division at that point. And this is kind of the same thing. And those are those rivalry, those backyard brawls, they happen all throughout boxing. I think about like Oscar Dahlia when he was coming up, when they put him in under unification with Ruelas. It was a similar thing or with Gennaro Hernandez, you know, the battles for East L.A. You know, so this is like that battle for Britain between two top guys for a long time in the same weight class. I think we just talked ourselves into being interested in this fight. I think that's what just happened over the last five minutes.

Dan Rayfield writes a terrific newsletter over at Substack. Subscribe on his Twitter account. Fight Freaks Unite is the name of the newsletter at Dan Rayfield. One is where you can track him down there. Dan, always great to catch up, man. Thanks for joining me. You back, Chris. I appreciate it.

Have yourself a good weekend. When we come back, my conversation with Amir Khan. Fight fans, throw your best haymaker with a risk-free first bet from Banddual Sportsbook. Even if your fighter gets knocked out or tapped out, new customers get up to $1,000 back if your first bet doesn't win. Just sign up with the promo code boxing, and you'll be able to bet on all the biggest boxing matches and UFC fights. Fandle offers all your favorite bets. Choose from the money line to the method of victory to which round the fight will end and so much more. You can even parlay different fight bets together.

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All right, Amir Khan is here, the former two-division world champion. He is coming to us from the UK, where his final press conference against Kelbrook has taken place. Khan against Brooke is a fight you can see Saturday here in the U.S. on ESPN Plus. So Amir, we are talking to you right after what was a pretty testy press conference between you and Kelbrook. What did you take away from that? Yeah, I mean, the press conference with Kelbrook, obviously, it's a little bit, it's a little bit, this fight is a little bit more personal than a normal fight. Obviously, Kel and myself, we've not been friends, we've never liked each other,

and he's always envied my career, always wanting to be in my place. But obviously, what got me to my place and what got me to this is winning fights and going to America, fighting, being the big named, and, you know, and having the tough fights. a hard face. With Kel, they want to take them chances, obviously. Obviously, but now the fight's happened. I think, you know, it's the time for me now to show it and shut Kellbrook up.

You've looked a lot of top opponents in the eye going into fights. When you look at Kelbrook, what do you see? First of all, I can see how hard it's taking him to make the weight, how hard it is. And also I can see that he's not fighting one like me with the speed, with the movement. And also, I know he keeps saying I've got timing, I've got this, I've got that, but look, he can say what he wants because he's saying the right thing

to promote the fight to make him look like he's going to win the fight. But like I said, he's not got a chance because I've got everything, I've got everything on my side and I've done everything on my side to go into this fight and win this fight. Now having the new team in Beaumack

and Crawford and everyone in my stable, that's what he made this fight for me, giving me a lot more confidence because I know that day with the last guy is to beat him. And I think that, yeah, Yeah, I mean, talk to me about that. The decision to train with Brian McIntyre back in the U.S.

with the trainer of a man who beat you just a couple of years ago. Yeah, so basically, the reason I wanted to do that is because I wanted to change my own style a little bit because I know I was making a lot of mistakes and I would make it, I want them to change me. What did they see in me that the reason why Crawford beat me? What did they see in me? And also then, the last fight they had was against, was against Calbook, and what made them break Calbook down, what was the tactics in that fight, and how did it beat him?

So I thought, you know what, it makes sense for me to get with someone like that, who's recently who know Calbook inside out and know me inside out as well. They didn't have to improve me, but they don't have to make me beat Calbrook. So it was a perfect match. Boxing in the UK is a big deal. You and Kelbrook have been two of the bigger names in the UK. for a long time. In your opinion, why is it taken this long

for this fight to happen? I mean, the reason it took so long is because we both missed each other. Obviously, first of all, it was because of the weight. He was always one weight above me. Secondly, it was because, obviously, I was campaigning in America,

training over there and fighting a lot in America with American promoters. At that time, I was with Golden Boy, then I went with Al Heyman, then I did some shows with top rank. So I was always with them. But now, obviously, now I'm back in the UK, I'm at my own promotion.

I decided to make this fight myself and that's the reason that fights happened now. Even though he's taken long before, it's been brilliant. Is this the last fight of your career? No, not at all. Not at all.

I mean, I feel, let's see. Let's see you come Saturday night because the way I feel, the way I'm training is the best of our time for a very, very long time. Especially this is so close to the weight. Like, they woke up this morning,

two pounds off the weight, which is like unheard of. You know, normally I'm like, six, seven pounds off weight. But it's so easy to make way of train so hard. My body is totally different. I've never been in this shape before my life. I feel stronger.

I feel sharper. And I just can't wait to put it to work. I see how I feel after that. And it's the best time for me to tell you after the fight. I can see how I feel. And if I want to continue or not. Sorry, Chris. One more question.

Before the Kelbrook opportunity came about, you know, you had not fought since you beat Billy Dibis. a couple of years ago. Were you planning, were you looking for other fights? Were you, or did this Kellbrook opportunity to ignite something in you? I'll go with the floor. I'll go with the floor and I'll wait a big fight.

I was going with the floor. And obviously, the Kelbrook fight come by and I thought. It's just a good set. The way things played out, the things have happened. God was watching all of me. And everything's happened for a reason. Just the last question for you, Amir. Like a lot of people in the U.S. know you well.

You had some great fights here in America. You've been largely inactive, only I think seven fights since 2015. If you could do anything differently with your career, would you do anything differently? No, I mean, the way my career has gone, I think having that inactivity kind of give me a bit of a break with my body needed.

And I think by having that break, I love came back into boxing. And it wasn't such a long break. I was still in the gym training. I was sparring hard as well. So really inactivity wasn't that much, but I still needed that. that just to give my body a break as well because you can imagine the many years i've been training

for amir good luck on saturday man we'll be looking forward to it all right time now for this week's picks brought to you by fan duel not a great week for me last week i had daniel jacob's winning by decision he lost by decision in fairness that was not a good decision i in the future i need to start really taking into account the likelihood that a judge or judges is going to submit a terrible scorecard, which is what we saw in the Daniel Jacobs fight. But I have a much better bet this weekend. Amir Khan against Kelbrook, two aging warriors, two highly popular UK fighters going at it over in Great Britain.

This could be a very fun fight. Both these guys are 35 years old. Both these guys have something of a history of getting knocked out. I am going with Amir Khan to win. He is the slightest of favorites, but I think he is both the fresher fighter. And I think because this fight is going to be contested at 149 pounds, he is going to be the sharper fighter. Kelbrook, at this point, he is 154-pounder, maybe even 160-pounder. He's just not that comfortable at 150 and below.

So I think Kel's going to be weight-trained going into this fight. I think that's going to make him more susceptible to tiring. Now, how does this fight head? Khan's around plus 380 to win by decision, and that's the bet that I like the most. I think this fight could be a slob knocker, but I'm not sure either guy has the power to stop the other. Sure, anything can happen when you've got two guys at this stage of his career, but I think Khan, his speed is going to be his biggest advantage,

but I don't think there's going to be a lot of power behind those shots. He's not the most powerful guy at Welterweight and above. So I think Khan winds up winning not a wide decision, but kind of an 8-4 type of decision over his longtime rival. So Amir Khan, by decision, those are my picks this week, brought to you by Fandul. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Dan Rayfield and Amir Khan for joining the show.

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