The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Berlanga won't get Canelo

Episode Date: June 28, 2023

Chris is joined by the DAZN broadcaster and Boxing Scene writer, Corey Erdman to talk about Edgar Berlanga's win over Quigley, who he might fight next, and why people need to start taking Jake Paul seriously as a boxer. Later, Jared Anderson stops by to talk about his upcoming fight in his hometown of Toledo, and if he still has a passion for boxing. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Here's Chris Mannix. And we are back. Boxing with Chris Manix, part of the Volume Sports Podcast Network. Glad he could be here. Glad he could join. If you're watching on YouTube or listening. on the podcast feed. Welcome. We appreciate you tuning in. Make sure you subscribe, both at YouTube and on the podcast feed, rate and review the show as well. A lot to get into this week. We had

an interesting weekend in boxing with big cards in New York and in Minnesota. We have a good weekend coming up, headlined by Jared Anderson, the heavyweight contender returning, making his hometown debut in Toledo, Ohio. It's a fight you could watch on ESPN Plus. Jared's going to join me a little bit later in the show to talk about that. But to get into all the news of the week, I want to bring in a friend of the podcast, Corey Erdman, Boxing Rider over at Boxing Scene.com, broadcaster at Zone, ESPN,

a whole bunch of different places. He joins me here on the show. So, Corey, before we look ahead at some of the stuff that is going on this week and some of the news items, I want to look back at last weekend. And let's start in New York, where I was with Edgar Berlanga, taking on Jason Quigley. And this was the first fight of Edgar Berlanga's matchroom deal. It's a multi-fight deal with matchroom. He thought it was going to lead to a Canelo Alvarez fight.

That's obviously out the window right now. We'll get to that more a little bit later. But Berlanga, taking on Quigley, I think a lot of people expected Burlanga just to roll over Jason Quigley. You know, Quigley was last seen, at least stateside, you know, getting just blown away by Demetrius Andrea. I think a lot of people expected Berlanga to do something similar. He doesn't. He does get quickly down four times in the fight. It goes to a decision he wins wide. Give me your assessment of what you saw from Edgar Berlanga in this one.

Yeah, I thought that he was modestly better than how he looked last time out. But he did run into a pretty pesky opponent in Jason Quigley. You know, I didn't think that Quigley was necessarily winning a lot of those rounds. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So, whoa, whoa, whoa, Sergio, turn off. Sergio, Mora, turn off this portion of the podcast because I know somewhere in Southern California, Sergio Mora is still scoring rounds for Jason Quigley, somewhere. Well, listen, and in Sergio's defense, I could see what he liked in what Quigley was doing

because I think Sergio was seeing a lot of the things that brought Sergio to a world title, just the ability to nullify a lot of what Mugia was doing. the argument, sorry, not Mungia, obviously Berlanga. The argument is, was he doing enough of that to win rounds or not? But setting that aside, Berlanga had someone in Quigley that was making things difficult for him in each and every round. And, you know, a lot of people sort of cast Quigley aside and they expected him, as you said, to do what Andrade had done. But, you know, remember, Berlanga is a guy who was, you know, taking heat for the struggles that he had with, you know, the Cosserxes and, DeMaun Nicholson's of the world.

So if you don't blast Jason Quigley out there, who is a guy that fought for a world title and had reached a higher level than Berlanga had as professional, to me, that can be acceptable. The problem is that Burlanga is always fighting against not just his opponent, but the expectations that were set upon him with that knockout streak. And the moment that ended for him, everything in comparison to that is obviously going to be less exciting. And, you know, Berlanga, I still think was missing, you know, what I would describe as some of that

connective tissue in between what he wants to do, those big blistering attacks, you know, the big power shots, the big athletic moves, the leaping hooks, that kind of stuff. There's a little bit missing in terms of how can he set that up beyond just brute force

or sheer athleticism. Some of that is missing and that's what quickly was able to exploit. And that's why he was able to make things difficult. But, you know, I wouldn't say I was, I was blown away by the performance, but I also wasn't, you know, totally distraught afterwards or terribly disappointed. Let me say this about my pal, Sergio, who knows more about boxing than I ever will, like has lived it, won a world championship, his resume speaks for itself. He does have a blind spot. And his blind spot is with guys that move around the ring and use their jab, because that's

who Sergio was as a fighter. That's the fighter that Dean Campos raised, you know, in the gym and turned into a world champion. So when he sees a guy doing anything that resembles that, he gives it more credit than it deserves. Like, at no point in time, was Jason Quigley a threat, in my opinion, to win that fight? Like, he was not going to get knocked out. That was relatively clear. Even though he got knocked down, one of those knockdowns early was not really a knockdown.

And he kind of tripped, and it was more of a grazing shot that led to a trip. But he wasn't going to win that fight. And Sergio just loves those types of guys that stick and move and stick and move. But look, the copy-bock numbers speak for themselves. And no round did Jason Quigley outland. Edgar Berlanga landed like 47% of his power punches. He was landing shots. And while Quigley was certainly moving around the ring well,

and you can give him credit for a measure of ring generalship, at some point you have to land more punches than the other guy. It's as simple as that. And he'd ever did that at any point in time, during the fight. I did want to point this out there, Chris. I do want to say that, you know, to categorize Quigley's performance, basically he did about as well as he could possibly have done against that opponent, right? Like the threats that Berlanga presented, he did everything he could.

And I do want to give credit. I want to make sure I give credit to Andy Lee for his corner work and it's fine. I know to people who are watching on TV, it might have sounded a little bit bizarre at one point because Lee, after a round that took him to knock down in. 10-8, he said we won that round. He won that round.

But I understood why he was doing that. I understood that what he was saying, his line of communication throughout the whole night was just a fuse of praise for his fighter. And part of that might be Andy Lee's communication style. Part of that may be that's how quick. as a person and as an athlete is motivated, whatever the reason,

I think that Lee was doing the right thing, because what he was communicating is that within your skill set, and given the opponent that we have right here, you are doing the best that you possibly can. And that was what was right to be communicated at that point. I'm not one of these people who likes to, a lot of people like to say, oh, there's no teachers in boxing anymore.

And, you know, that can be, you'll get immediate likes if you say something like that. It sounds like a kind of, you know, high-minded, like appreciation of yesterday year and you know whatever but there are good trainers out there and i think the andy lee is one of them and i i think that too often what you will see in corners is trainers asking something of their fighter that they just can't actually perform you'll often see guys say oh you know where are those six punch combinations we saw in the gym well those don't work in this fight andy lee knew what his fighter had that worked that he could actually perform

and he set out, I think, the best game plan that Quigley could have possibly enacted. So I do want to give a shout out to Andy Lee. I think a lot of people will kind of forget that fight and what he did in that fight, but I think he did a really excellent job with what he had. I think the game plan was fine. I just don't know that you can never win a fight moving that much and only throwing jabs. And that really was what Quigley was doing. The power numbers were significantly in favor of Berlanket,

even though Berlanga didn't look great and didn't land a whole bunch of them, he was still landing more than Jason Quigley. And those shots tend to count more in the minds of the judges. So at no point that I think that Berlanga was in danger of losing that fight. Where I wonder and what I wonder was where was the 12th round? Where was the Edgar Berlang of the 12th round during the first 11th? Like where was that guy? Like you're telling me that Edgar Berlanga in the first, second or third round could not have turned up the heat.

I mean, we know his trainer believed he could have. defeat was in the corner saying, hey, let's go, let's go, let's go, pick it up, throw the jab more, some feints, all the things we worked on in camp. At no point, Corey, did Edgar Berlanga go back to his corner and hear positive reinforcement? To contrast what you just said, Jason Quigley was here, nothing positive reinforcement. Edgar Berlanga was hearing, you know, the boxing equivalent of your, you're blowing it. Like, that's what he's hearing over and over again. So I just wonder where the Edgar Berlanga was in the 12th round, why he didn't step on the gas, earlier in this fight because when he did, he could be overwhelming. He was far more powerful to Jason Quigley.

That right hand had an effect. I don't know where that version of Berlanga was for the first 11 rounds of the fight. That was my biggest issue with how he fought. Yeah, I think, you know, and I'm just guessing here, I think that one is that Quigley was obviously more tired in the 12th, so Berlanga, you know, had a more susceptible opponent. I think that's one thing, because one thing Berlanga did do well throughout the fight, and I think Sergio even agreed with that. I thought he was cutting off the ring decently, and he was applying good foot pressure all night long. I thought it was okay. I thought it was okay. I thought it was, I mean, I thought it was okay. Yeah, sure, you know, but, but it was, he was, he was applying pressure throughout the night. I think my guess is that for Lange throughout this fight, and, and I'm just

kind of taking clues from what he said afterwards, was sort of caught between ideologies a little bit. He said that in, in the opening rounds, I think he said it to you, that he was supposed to start faster. He thought that he was going to start faster, but he was, he wound up trying to negotiate range a little bit more. And I think that that may be the part of his brain that's still kind of with the former trainer. And now with a new trainer where, I mean, he said throughout camp, they basically put a heavy bag against the wall and had him slam it until exhaustion. You know, that kind of like killer mentality is kind of antithetical to maybe how he was thinking before.

And I think he tapped into what he needed to be in that 12th and final round. And how I think he now envisions himself as a fighter. So let's talk about what he does next because it's pretty obvious the big fight to make for Edgar Berlanga is Hyman Mangia. This is a fight that would be between two young, undefeated 168-pound contenders who are both high in most of the sanctioning body rankings. It would be a perfect match with styles. Neither of these guys takes more than a couple of steps backward. In fact, they're probably just going to go forwards from the opening bell. and it would be an electric type of fight.

It would sell a bunch of tickets, whether you have the fight in Southern California, in Las Vegas, in New York City. It probably sells out the big room in New York City, frankly, Eger-Berlanga put about $5,000 plus into the theater at the garden with Haim Mung-Gia, with his fan base, with the right promotion. That is a MSG sellout, I think.

And I don't think that's too much of a stretch. I think Hybe Mung-Gia would take the fight. I think Oscar Deloia would take the fight. I think Eddie Hearn would make the fight. I'm not convinced that the people around Edgar Berlanga, his management trainers, would want that fight right now. And that's disappointing because one of the reasons, one of the criticisms Edgar Berlanga had when he left top rank was, you know, top rank officials privately,

you know, whispering that Edgar Berlanga didn't want to fight anybody. Remember it was Jesse Hart back then. You know, they couldn't make a fight with Jesse Hart. He goes to matchroom and he gets what was supposed to be a gimmy in the first fight of his deal. Jason Quigley, who was a middleweight up until about a year ago. And now it sounds like, it seems like anyway, that Berlanga wants another givey or another fight where he is a, you know, three to one, four to one, five to one favorite against. I don't think there's any value in that.

I don't. I don't even know who that would be at 168. I don't know who that would be. I don't know who he wants at 168 that represents that type of credible opponent, but not credible enough to be a real threat to Berlanga. I think it's got to be Mungia. And I'd make Mungia a favorite right now.

I think he's improved a lot more over the last couple of years than Berlanga has. But I don't make him this overwhelming favorite. I think everything we've seen from Jaime Mungia, including most recently his fight against Sergei Derevincenko, shows a vulnerable fighter. I mean, Sergey Dervenchenko, fifth round, Corey, fifth round, he had Jaime Mugia on the ropes. He was hurt in Hymie Mugia. And Sergey Derry, Sergey Dervinchenko is a good fighter, you know, much better than his record suggests.

But he's a middleweight who was 37 years old going into that fight. You're telling me that if you're Edgar Berlanga's management, by the way, his manager, Keith Conley, also represents Sergey Derevichiko. So he was sitting there watching what was happening during Derevanchenko Mungia. If you don't believe that your guy, can win a fight against Jaime Munguilla. You don't belong anywhere near any of the top guys in the super middleweight division. Look, I understood when they were talking about getting a Canelo-Alvarez fight, and that was always kind of the plan for Edgar Burlanka.

They said this publicly. When that was on the table, I could understand the push to avoid an extremely difficult opponent in that second fight. But Canello is not an option. He's got a multi-fight deal with PBC. that's probably going to keep him tied up on that side of the street through September of 2024. What's Edgar Belang going to do? What's he going to do?

Is he going to take a B-level or a C-level opponent in his next fight and then fight Jaime Mungia? What are we waiting for? Like, what are we waiting for? We have been clamoring for years to see Jaime Mungia in a big fight. There's nothing out there for him. You're going to tell me that Jaime Mungia and Oscar Delahoya are going to make a fight against David Benavides. Bullshit. Bullshit.

They're going to run into that fight. Like, they would be a eight to one underdog in a fight against David Benavides. They would be a favorite against Edgar Berlanga. That's why, Delahoya and Mungia's team, Fernando Beltron, they're going to want that fight against Berlanga. Berlanga should want that fight too. That is a winnable fight for him. It's a tough fight, but it's a winnable fight for him.

If he wants to get all the people that are on his back off, you know, on his back for not fighting the best in his division, he's got to take. take this fight. And to his credit, he hopped on social media on Sunday when Oscar and Eddie were doing their whatever it is that they're doing with Twitter. He sub-tweeted it and said, Oscar, bring me that punching bag, talking about Mungia. So Berlanga is on record saying he wants that fight. His team needs to make that fight. Do you agree? I think it's an awesome fight. And I think it should be the next fight, you know, and I understand, you know, if Burlanga sees the triple G carrot out there and maybe wants to see if that's a possibility before signing for Mungia.

But the better fight, the more entertaining fight for me is the Mungia fight. I'll grant you that, too, Corey. I'll grant you that. Like if Gennady Golofkin wakes up tomorrow and says, I'd like to fight Edgar Berlanka, make that fight. That's kind of a kick. That's a king-making type of fight for Berlangis. But if Gailofkin is still waffling and he's into July and August being like,

you know, I don't really know what I want to do. Forget it. Go. Make the fight against Mungia. You beat Jaime Mungia. You're a money man. in 168 pound division. You can go to David Benavides and say, look, it's a 50-50 split.

Or you can go down the line to Canelo Alvarez and say, I've earned a bigger share of the pie. Sorry to interrupt you there, but I just... No, no. You know, I think that is such a important fight for Edgar Berlanga that he's got to find a way to take it if Golofkin's not available. Well, and, you know, I don't know what's been discussed behind closed doors, but I do get the sense that Berlanga, as you said,

wants that fight. And I actually found his post-fight interview with you on the broadcast to be really interesting and really illuminating. It was a very different Edgar Berlanga than the one that we saw kind of during the buildup, like the bombast was kind of gone and he was he was sort of pensive. He was a little bit quiet. But I also found it interesting that for Langa, kind of even in that interaction with you, sort of let it slip that he kind of almost agrees with a lot of the criticism about him, but he's rationalizing it a little bit differently. He said that the reason, basically, in effect, he's saying the reason that I'm struggling or I look like I'm having difficulty with this level of guys, you know, the Jason Quigley's

and below, is because they're not talented enough, so they don't want to engage with me. But I will look better if I face better fighters. The problem is that my competition hasn't been good enough, and that will make me look better because they'll be trying to knock me out too, just like I will be too. with them. I found that really interesting. We've seen examples of this. I mean, you know, Teafimo Lopez looks awful against Sando

Martini. He fights against Josh Taylor. Josh Taylor engages with him. Teafimo looks great. Right now, Regis Progrey is dealing with that same stuff. Daniel Lito Zaria dances around the ring for 12 rounds. Progray, are there weaknesses there? You put Progray in with someone that's going to bang with him.

He's going to look a heck of a lot better. So I understand where Berlang is coming from there. Yeah. Well, and, you know, so to that point, like I think that he thinks that not only just you want these fights, but I think he thinks he needs them because he feels like he's past the point of gaining anything from that level of fights. The other thing is that objectively, you know, and I don't know who these names are necessarily, but I think that there's a danger for Berlanga if he faces anyone that sits between that Quigley and Mungia level.

A thousand percent that he could lose, right? Couldn't agree more. There is a danger there. So objectively, if you're playing matchmaker with this guy, I think it's better off to just go to the fight that not only the fans want, but he seems to want as well. I don't see a tremendous amount of downside. By the way, he's 26. You lose a competitive fight with Jaime Mungia. You're not taking too many steps back. I mean, Daryvanchenko just lost a fight to Hyman Mungia. They're talking about doing a rematch. In fact, I was told that, you know, Golden Boy and Daryvincenko want the rematch. I'm not so sure Dizone is interested because understandably, Dizone wants Mungia to fight Berlanga. You don't want to put these two guys in with other opponents where they will be, you

would be sizable favorites. And with due respect to the performance Derevanchenko had, I had kind of a last standish feel off that, Corey. Like, you know, that Daryvanchenko dug deep one last time. I feel like if he fights Mungi again, it's not going to be as competitive this time around because he is on the older side. And there's only so many wars you can go through before they really start to take their toll and you ultimately get stopped. So yeah, I sort of got the same feeling. And, you know, all the respect to him in the world, I wouldn't want to count him out heading into that rematch. But yeah, I felt like whatever he had left, whatever his body had left to give,

he might have left it in the ring that night. And there's lots of examples of that throughout boxing history. I'm thinking like, a very random example. Let's say, like, Mancini Bramble 1. Well, Mancini Bramble 2, boom, boom, just didn't have it anymore, right? And that may be the case with Derry Finchenko. He's put a lot into this sport, and he left a lot in the ring in that fight too. Yeah, I did.

No question about that. I can't believe you're the second guy. in three years to bring up Livingstone Bramble. Brian Kennedy did it like years ago. And I thought he was making the name up, honestly. I thought it was like a Dickens character that he just made up. Apparently, that's a real person, which I looked up later on. Also on that card, we saw Adam Kovnoski lose his fourth straight fight.

You know, it was a fun fight as almost all Adam Kovnowski fights are. I think we're done. I think Adam Kibnasker should call it a career. If he loses the Jokuzumano, there's nobody. on a higher level of the heavyweight division that he can stand in there. And maybe, Corey, it's a blessing in disguise. If he had found a way to go the distance with Cusamano

and squeeze out a win, he was a candidate to fight Anthony Joshua in August. And that would have been, that would have been ugly. It would have been ugly. That would have been ugly. The problem, though, and I think that he should call it a career as well,

you know, if I'm just sort of objectively playing doctor and matchmaker here, you know, I don't have agency over his life and his career. But the difficulty, particularly with heavyweights, Chris, is that there is always money for a returning or an aging heavyweight anywhere in the world. These fights cost more money to make than in any other division. And there's always money out there in Europe, back home in Poland for him to make a return. I mean, Andrew Golata came back a couple of years ago.

Danny Williams still gets booked for fights. Kevin Johnson is still in fights. There will be offers for Kovnachki and they will seem appealing, but you see this career arc, and I don't want it to happen to him, but you see this career arc a lot in the heavyweight division where you just slide further and further down the card until you kind of reach a really sad end and you're losing exhibition fights in Russia. I don't want that fight. I don't want that arc for him, but there will always be the possibility for it because the money will be there for him. and hopefully he's made enough that that kind of money isn't tempting for him to do that. Yeah, I think, you know, if I was a betting man, I'd say he fights again. I don't think he fights again in the U.S.

because I don't think there is a major promoter that would work with him at this point because he has been knocked out and in a couple of cases badly in three of his last four fights. He had a broken orbital bone in one of those fights. if you can't beat an opponent on the level of Joe Kusimano, do you really want to see Adam Kovnazki in with some, like Jared Anderson, for example. Like, do you really want to see that? I'm going to pass.

I don't need to see Kvinaski taking that kind of beer. I'm going to pass. Well, and it's also hard, you know, not only what happened in the ring, but it's hard for a guy to bounce back after, you know, fans who watch that broadcast seeing that, you know. And you guys were rightfully talking about this should be the end for him. I get the sense.

I'll tell you what, I get the sense he wants to keep fighting. I've heard some whispers that he wants to keep going. But look, there were moments where he was competitive, especially in that second and third round when he rallied after the first round knockdown. But again, look at the caliber of opponent. Joe Kusimato, all credit to him for winning that fight. That's the same guy, two fights earlier, that was knocked out in the first round by Daniel Dubois. He was gist.

Kucumato was gassed after the first round. If you can't beat someone like that, you shouldn't be in. with some of these heavyweight killers that are only going to be looking to fight you because of your name, because of the fact that you can sell tickets in New York City. I hope Adam Kovnowski's got the right people around him that says, look, there are other things we can do. We can train fighters. We can do a whole bunch of different things to make money instead of putting your health at risk. Get a young family.

It shouldn't be fighting anywhere ever again. The other fight over this past weekend I want to ask you about was, the middleweight secondary title, which will eventually be the full title, Carlos Adomas, Julian J. Rock Williams. This was a fight that was highlighted by another questionable stoppage. Shotans had some bad luck with these questionable stoppage. You had the Romero-Barroso fight a few weeks earlier, stopped prematurely, and now you had Mark Nelson stopping the Adamas J. Rock Williams fight a little bit early. I had a different vibe to this, Corey, because, look, the borosso stoppage was abhorrent.

Like, that should never have happened. That was borderline criminal. Was the Adamas Williams fight stopped too early? Yes. I believe it was stopped right as Williams was throwing a punch. So I think that speaks volumes in and of itself. But you could see where that fight was going, right? Like you could see that Adamas was landing the heavier shots,

was hurting Williams, which is trainer admitted after the fight. Did the referee stop the fight three punches too early instead of one punch too early? Probably. But this wasn't a fight that I thought was going to end any other way than Carlos Adamas winning it. I thought it was either going to end by some kind of violent stoppage or Adamas would have won even wider than he did on the scorecards at the time of the stoppage. Yeah, and, you know, I want to be fully transparent here that I've only seen the closing sequence of this fight because presently, showtime does not have a broadcast or streaming deal in Canada. Oh, man. So when I have to watch Showtime fights, I mean, I don't know what the statute of limitations is here, but I have to find less than legal means or like get a copy of it after the fact.

But I have seen the closing sequence, and I agree with you, Chris, it looked to me like a fight that, I mean, there's a, a big difference between the Barroso stoppage, which is one where you cannot put yourself in the headspace of the referee and how they arrived at that conclusion, and one like the J-Rock stoppage, where you could see how the referee has seen some things that made him want to stop it a little bit earlier and, yeah, maybe stopped it a punch or two too early, but might have saved a more violent ending. I think that there's a big gap between those things, but within that gap, I think there is space to call this, you know, a premature stoppage. And if you're on J. Rock's side, to have the anger that you do and to think that it should have, that it should

have continued, but also one where you can look at the referee and see, okay, I get how you arrived at this conclusion. Yeah. I'm sure in Mark Nelson's mind, he thought he was saving Julian Williams from something far worse, something that was coming, something that he could see coming. You know, give J. Rock credit. I mean, there was, I think it was the fourth round. He just took a savage beating and just rallied from it. But this was going the way of Carlos Adamas and one way or the other, he was going to win that fight. And hopefully, look, hopefully Adamas gets elevated to full middleweight title holder. He has been active out there fighting semi-regularly, pretty regularly, I should say, while Jamal Charlo has been off waiting for this exact opportunity to come around

with Canelo Alvarez. I mean, let's be real why. The reason Jamal Charlo is still the WBC middleweight champion is because the WBC on September 16th wants to say it's the WBC middleweight champion versus the WBC super middleweight champion. That's the only reason he has not been stripped of that title. I don't want to hear about the WBC being compassionate for all that Charles is going through. I feel for what Charles is going through. That doesn't mean you get to hold on to that title indefinitely, especially when a guy like Adamas is out there fighting, winning significant fights. You know, I would wage that come September 17th that Carlos Saddamas is the full-fledged middleweight champion at 160

for the, for the BBC. So a good win for him, tough loss for Julian Williams. Speaking of Charlo and that fight coming up against Canelo, we talked a little bit about this last week in the immediate aftermath of Canello choosing the deal, the multi-fight deal with PBC. Canelo opting for the Charlo fight over one with David Benavides. And I said at the time and I stand by it that I'm fine with this fight for Canello. Charlo is not what he was three years ago. He has not fought in more than two years. His last fight, he looked very average against Juan Macias Montiel.

But he still is undefeated. He still is officially a title holder. He still is a big mouth and a big name that will undoubtedly have a lot to see. during the buildup to this fight. I just, all that being said, I can't say this being competitive. I can't. I mean, maybe Canelo isn't what he once was, but Canelo, this version of Canelo is still a lot better than this version of Charlo.

Because we have not seen Charlo in the last couple of years. When we have seen him, it hasn't looked like he's been in training the entire time. he's been dealing with a lot outside the ring. He's been dealing with injuries that have obviously impacted his career over the last couple of years. I just don't see this being a competitive fight. I don't. I think it's, you know, maybe Charlo can go the distance.

He's got a good jab. If he used that to keep Canello off him, he'll obviously be up for this fight because it's career defining for him. But Jamal Charlo has not been a high-level guy since 154. You know, he hasn't fought anybody at 160's best win came over Sergey Dervinchenko. And that was the Derevanchenko that had gone 24 rounds with Daniel Jacobs and Gennady Golofkin. So I don't know. Am I wrong?

Are you seeing this as a fight that Jermal Charlo can be, I don't want to say, look, the word competitive can be viewed many different ways. But is this a fight Jamal Chaldochaldo can win. Let's put it that way. So this is interesting because I think I think I was on here. maybe a year and a half ago, maybe before that, and even prior to that, Charlo, during that time when Canelo seemed like an absolutely unbeatable monster, and there was a period of time,

and it wasn't that long ago, where I looked at the landscape of potential people that Canello could feasibly fight, and I looked at all the names, and I would say that he would have been a favorite over all of them, but the one name that always jumped out at me as, hey, maybe this guy would give him problems. And by the way, I was wrong about, I didn't consider Dimitri Bebo. But at the time, I always thought that Charlo was one that could give him difficulty.

Because when I've looked at what has troubled Canello in the past, you know, set aside in Southpaw stuff, lengths, a guy that can hold his ground the way that people did, the way that Mayweather did. You know, Laura didn't do so much of that. but guys who can be powerful and box in the pocket and not concede ground. Golofkin, obviously, doing that with that stiff, heavy jab. Charlo has those elements in, like, the best version of Jamal Charlo, I thought at his peak would have given Canello a lot of problems. And as this fight gets a little bit closer, I'll probably convince myself of that once again so that I can get excited about it.

But it's hard to ignore the inactivity. in the layoff and just looking at how Charlo's life has been over the last couple of years. You know, with the struggles that he's had personally, you know, like it seems to be partying a lot. Not to say that Canelo doesn't have a good time as well, but Charlo seems to be out there a lot more, at least visibly, than we see a lot of high-level fighters. And when you couple all those things in together, you start thinking, well, maybe that is the reason why Canello is taking this fight. Not to, you know, categorize it as a cherry pick or anything, but there's reason why he's pretty comfortable taking this fight. And I think that's probably it, because

the best version of Charlo, the one that I'm imagining, might not be one that he can reestablish given how the past few years have gone for it. Well, if this was fight was taking place four years ago when both these guys were middleweight champions, I think it would have been competitive for all the reasons you articulated. You know, Charlo has that excellent jab, which has given Canello problems, whether it's Kinnelli Golofkin, Sergei Koval. Demetri Bevo threw a lot of jabs in their fight. That's a weapon that Canelo hasn't quite figured out how to navigate. You know, we all remember the end of the Sergei Kovali Fyte fight and the spectacular knockout.

But up until that point, it was pretty competitive. It was a one or two round type of fight. That was because Sergei Kovalev, under the stewardship of Buddy McGirt, through like a thousand jabs in that fight. I thought the 2019 version of Jermal Charlo could have done that. The guy I've seen subsequently, I mean, the last example of Jermal Charlo, the last video we have him was against Juan Macias Montiel. Who is a journeyman?

He's a journeyman. And Charlo could not get him out of there. I mean, that's the same guy that I think a couple of years earlier, Jaime Mungiah just panicked when they faced each other. So four years ago. go, yeah, would have loved to have seen this fight. Would have been a great fight. Both these guys, 160 pound title holders, but now you have Jamal Charlo, who, look, maybe he's saying it for different reasons, but I watched that

that Instagram live or whatever it was that he was on with Demetra's Andrade. And Andrade's like, come up to 168, let's fight. And Charlo's like, no, I never fought a 168. I'll do it like 163, 164. So maybe he's not fully comfortable with fighting at this new weight class. And to do it for the first time against an opponent like Canelo Alvarez, who is sharp, you know, went 12 rounds with John Ryder, wasn't the best of Canello, but he got that post-injury stuff out of the way. And now he's back at full strength. I don't know.

I think Canelo is going to find a home for that right hand on the midsection of Charlo's. Get that really long midsection. I think he's going to keep him on the back foot for most of the night. I think he'll eventually get to him. And I think he'll eventually stop him. Charles, Charlo's going to have to do something special. And he's going to have to keep advancing on Canell. Keep throwing that jab, throw it a lot against Canelo to have an impact where you make

Canelo think and change up his game plan and do something maybe a little bit reckless. But even if he does, like, you know, Charlo at 154 was a big puncher. Charlotte 160 has not shown that yet. And at 168 against the guy with one of the best chins in boxing, I just don't see it. I don't see the path to victory for Jamal Charlo in a fight like this. Yeah, and Charlo is a very sharp puncher, but you're right. is a question. I mean, there's a question about can anyone hurt Cannello? Because you're right, he just has an absolutely granted chin. You know, the size discussion is one that's interesting too. Excuse me, because, you know, Jamal naturally, in terms of where they walk around is bigger than Canelo, right? He's taller, he's longer, but also, I remember there being like kind of like a YouTube video where Jamal was talking to Derek James. And he said, oh, I walk around, you know, heavier than you are right now, which said to me that Jamal probably walks around around, around. like 190-ish.

But, you know, to your point about him discussing where he's comfortable weighing in at, Canello has been a super middle weight now for a little while. And there's a difference between your kind of natural size, your walk-around weight, and what you were athletically comfortable at. And Canello has become very comfortable as, you know, the stocky muscle bound 168. And so, yeah, I think that I would predict that he'll handle Charles' power, Really, yeah, the question is, you know, is Canello on enough of a slide and can Charlo tap into what? Do you think he is? Do you think Canello's on a slide?

I mean, just naturally, you know, as an athlete, yeah, he probably is like declining marginally. That doesn't mean he's on a precipitous decline, right? I think what people hear that, they think that that's some nasty pejorative, but like, of course Conello is not peaking right now, right? He's on some sort of a decline. The question is, can Charlo, who at one point, and I, in, you know, know, within him has a very special toolbox. This is someone who was an elite fighter who's capable of that. Can he make up for those last couple of years? Has he still been able to develop and get a little bit better?

And can those arcs meet out of place, you know, the Canella decline in his potential assent, if he's getting better, if he's been able to, can they meet at a place where Charlo can make this competitive? That's the question. Look at his fights at 160, which his career as middleweight began in 2017. Jorge Highland, he knocked out in the fourth round, Highland, a journeyman. Hugo Centeno knocked out in the second round. That was fine. That's when he won an introversion of the middleweight title.

Then he goes the distance with Matt Koroboff. I thought that fight was a lot closer than some of the scorecards indicated, especially Larry Hazard's scorecard, which was wild that night. Brandon Adams, he goes the distance with Brandon, obviously, a tricky fighter and a lot smaller, so difficult to track down. Dennis Hogan, he knocks out. Dennis Hogan, really, a 154. I didn't think too much of that.

Goes the distance with Dervinchenko, but I thought that was the most impressive win of his run at middleweights, because even though Dervenchenko probably wasn't the guy that went 12 with Golochkin, he still had, I think, something left in the tank there. So, you know, good win. And that's the one fight that Derevanchenko or his team don't contest. Like they readily admit they lost that. fight. And then you go up to Montiel and he beat Montiel wide, but, you know, Montiel's just not

all that good. You look at what he's done, you know, previously. He gets knocked out by Carlos Adamas in his last fight. You know, previous fights gets Jaime Mogia that I mentioned second round knockout. It's still a mid-level journeyman type guy that that Charlo, for whatever reason, couldn't get out of there. And I think if he's just going to, he's just going to have to do something different to be Canelo. And yeah, which, which is the case with everyone who faces it. Like everyone who's faced at Canelo basically has to turn in a performance at a level that we've never seen before. And Canello, that's the case with everybody. You know, there's going to be a size difference. Obviously, Charlo, the taller fighter, but

like, everybody's the taller fighter. Except for John Ryder, everybody's the taller fighter against Kenos. He's looking up at Caleb Plant. He's looking up at Sergey Kovlev. He's looking way up at Callum Smith. So, you know, looking a couple inches up at Jermal Charlo's not going to bother Conno. But look, again, to circle back, it's the right fight. Like, it's a better fight than Edgar Berlanga would have been, because Edgar Berlanga has done nothing during that fight. At least Jermal Charlo during his career at 154 earned that opportunity, won a title legitimately at 160. So whatever he is now, he's done more to earn that fight than Edgar Berlanga and really anyone outside of David Benavides, who we both agree has done more than anyone to earn it.

but hopefully that's one of the fights in this multi-fight deal that Canello has with PBC. Last thing to take a swift turn to the other side of boxing. We are about six weeks, I want to say away from Jake Paul against Nate Diaz, Dallas, Texas, Jake going back on the MMA circuit to take on one of the most popular guys to come out of UFC. Eddie Hearn said recently that he thought this fight wouldn't go further. than four rounds, which undoubtedly will enrage the MMA community. Eddie, of course, said it on Ariel Hawani's MMA show, so he knew the audience he was directing it at.

Do you agree? I mean, this is the pro boxing debut for Nate Diaz. We hear all about, you know, Nate says he was going to be a boxer first before he went to MMA. You got Andre Ward saying positive things about Nate Diaz. Are you a believer that Nate Diaz can be the first former MMA fighter, or I guess current MMA fighter, to derail Jake Paul. I mean, I think that Eddie has a point.

And I think this could very well be, it could turn out to be a mismatch. And all of this fight, all this fight hinges on is, to your point, the mythology that's been there about Nate throughout his MMA career. And I'm not going to profess to be a massive MMA fan, but when you're in combat sports, they're in the periphery always. but the selling point for him throughout his career and that mythology has been, yeah, this guy could have been a boxer, but he also had these other skills, and so he opted to take part in MMA.

And I always, you know, take, I press pause when I hear that, because typically if you were able to be a high-level boxer, you probably financially would have opted to be a boxer instead, generally speaking. But the other issue is, let's say, that is true. Let's say he was having 50-50 sparring rounds with Andre Ward 10 years ago, which is basically what all this is

rooted in. What is he doing now? And after all these years of not specializing in boxing, can he beat someone who has been for the last three, four years or so? You know, it's like even, like, this is kind of like if you took a

very high level kind of Ironman competitor and you put them up against in like a one-on-one race against kind of, I don't know, a mid-to-lower level professional marathoner who was specialized in just that thing this entire time. Even if that Ironman competitor had the capacity to be better or used to be better or whatever,

the fact that he had to spend all of that time swimming and biking and doing all these other things took away from his ability to be great at that one single specialty. And I just think that, you know, gun to my head, I'm picking Jake in this fight because he's special. specialized in this. He's younger, and he's been solely focusing on boxing this whole time. You know, the myth is either going to be debunked or proven in this fight, which is kind of fascinating to me. I think Nate's in some trouble, Corey. I think Nate's in a lot of trouble

in this fight. He's a fun guy, and I hope, I hope during the fight week, it gets entertaining between the two. The kickoff press conference a couple of months ago was relatively tame compared to expectations. I think it has the potential to get spicy during that fight week, but as I've told everybody, Jake is a boxer. Jake's not a great boxer, but Jake is a boxer. Jake has real power. Like, you don't put guys down in the way that Jake put down Ben Ascran in the way he put down Tyron Woodley without having real knockout power. And Jake is going to be the natural, what is it,

185, catch weight, something in that area, natural guy at that weight class. Nate, he's going to be coming up. He's usually a significantly lighter when he's fighting an MMA. And I don't know he has the punch resistance, man. I don't know. I don't believe, I believe he has better boxing skills

than Ben Ascran did and maybe better boxing skills than Tyron Woodley. did. The Woodley wasn't awful, especially the second time out in the ring. I just don't see him standing up to that right hand. I don't. This is where Eddie's going with it. Eddie knows that Jake has some real pop in that right hand. And if you walk into it, if you go in there, just thinking you can take this Disney kid YouTuber and take his punches, he's going to make you pay. He's going to put you down. And look, I've spent a lot of time in Puerto Rico over the last month or so. In really the last year, I've done a few trips down there. I've seen Jake in action. I've seen the guys. I've seen the guys

he spars with. He spars with guys like Chad Dawson. He spars with guys like Jaly on Love. Takes this stuff seriously. Like he's, for whatever you think of him, he's taking this stuff seriously. And he's in with real guys, and he's getting real training. He made the shift away from BJ Flores in his training camp for this fight, but brought in Shane Mosley, who helped train him at the very beginning. So he's bringing in real guys. So I don't know. I kind aside with Eddie in this one. I mean, maybe it's fun early on. But the second Jake sits down in that right hand and lands it, I don't think Nate's going to take it. I don't. I don't. Yeah, I think punch

resistance is a question for Nate, but also his own punch delivery is a question for me too, because you know, he does in MMA, and granted, there are a lot of different considerations when you're in the octagon and the way that you hold your hands and, you know, having an open palm, like those have other benefits.

You've got a lot more to worry about, but, you know, those slapping shots that, you know, we've seen Nate throw in combination inside the cage, those don't work in boxing. And, you know, and And even Anderson Silva had a little bit of that. Even if you know he was, you know, a dedicated boxer to a degree as well, the way that he was throwing his punches, you know, wasn't really troubling Jake in the same way.

He had some trouble in that fight. But really what bugged Jake in the Tommy Fury fight was just a nice, educated jab. Yeah. Right? It was Tommy not jabbing nonstop and jabbing properly. And that gave him difficulty. And, you know, it sounds very rudimentary. but I don't know that that's part of Nate's skill set.

He doesn't know how to throw a jab, but knowing how to throw a jab in the way that Fury did to trouble Jake is a different caliber. And I just don't know if that's something he has. There are a lot of questions. I mean, he'll need to surprise me to win this fight, which is fair because he hasn't had the ability to show it.

But again, if I'm picking someone in this fight, I'm picking Jake. Let me ask you to make another prediction. July 28th, we've got Crawford Spell. biggest fight of the year in boxing, welterweight unification fight, massive show. A week later, Paul versus Nate Diaz,

which of those two fights does more pay-per-view buys? Crawford Spence is going to do more. Really? Yeah, I do think that. I mean, what was Paul Tommy Fury? Do you remember the... I mean, depends on the mask. Like, you know, Jake Paul will tell you

was north of 800,000 buys. Okay. Even if that's true, it came at different price points, right? Like the price point for on ESPN Plus in the U.S. was one thing. The price point across the globe was something entirely different. And it should be noted, I believe that the price point for Nate versus Jake is going to be less than Crawford-Sense. I think they're going to do what understandably boxing promoters do, which is really go after the fans on Crawford Spence, like $85 when you factor in kind of the type of thing you get. maybe it does, Corey.

I think it's going to be close than you think. I think it's going to be close. It could be a little bit of a matter. It could be a little of a battle. I think you dramatically underestimate Nate Diaz's fan base. I think you do. Which that could be the case. I'm thinking of this in terms of Jake, which, you know, after the loss, the question was,

like how many of those people that were tuning in before were just tuning in and Oh, I don't think they would have tuned in for a rematch. I think he would have done considerably fewer numbers in the rematch. But the fact that he pivoted to the most popular UFC guy you could make a fight with because of availability, I think that helps him enormously. And God bless MMA fans. You guys, some of you listen to the show, some of you tweet at me, some of you leave stuff in the comments. You are lunatics. You're all lunatics because you consistently, regardless of past performance, you consistently believe that your guy is going to beat you.

that this UFC guy is going to beat Jake, whether it was Ben Ascran, Tyraud, Woodley, Anderson Silva. Like, you believe that Jake is going to meet his match with the next UFC guy. And Nate Diaz, I'm not an expert on UFC popularity, but I'd say he's probably more popular right now than any of the guys that I mentioned. Woodley, Silva's a legend, but I think Nate's more popular right now. Ben Ascran, way more popular. I think Nate's going to have a lot of fans that want to watch him fight. I think this is going to do, I think this is going to do a big number.

I do. I think it's going to be big, big, big. And maybe Crawford Spence tops it probably does. But I think it's going to be a lot close than most people think. And Crawford Spence probably benefits from being a week earlier because if you pony up $85 for Crawford Spence, maybe you're a little bit less likely to pony up $60.65 for Jake Paul versus Nate Diaz. But it is going to be a different fan base.

like Jake and Nate is not going to bring in the purest like Crawford and Spence are. There'll be some crossover for sure, but it's an entirely different group of fans largely that are going to be buying Jake versus Nate. I think we're going to be talking like August 12th, August 19th, whenever those numbers start to trickle out, aft being really, really big, especially if those two go at it during their fight, which I think Jake will try to do, and I think Nate will probably engage in when we get close to the fight. Yeah, and listen, I cannot be judgment.

towards fans of futility as a fan of the Browns and Tigers. You have some of the weirdest. So I understand. I understand. Chearing for things because it'll feel good when it happens.

One of these days, one of these guys is going to get Jake Paul in it, and I'm sure it'll feel awesome for the people that are waiting for that moment. I think it's kind of great for boxing too because one week you get

the fight we've been waiting years for, the biggest, most competitive fight you can make right now with the lower weight classes. And the next week, you get the gimmicky stuff. And the gimmicky stuff is also going to have a trickle-down effect for the people on the undercard. I mean, Amanda Serrano gets another opportunity to, you know, fight.

She's in what I think is a bit of a mismatch against Heather Hardy, who she beat, what, four years ago now, pretty convincingly. But she's going to get more exposure. I haven't seen the rest of the undercard who's on there. I'm sure Ashton Silve will find his way on there. Shadasha Green, I'm not sure if she's going to be on there, but that seems likely. She's part of MVP. There's a benefit, as we've talked about a lot to. having the quote-unquote real boxer on these Jake Paul cards.

I'm looking forward to both. I am for different reasons. The boxing purist in me is dying to see Crawford v. Spence, the curious onlooker, and he wants to see Jake versus Naco at it on August 5th. Corey, good stuff, man. Always appreciate you joining me. Can't wait to come back. And when we come back, my conversation with Jared Anderson.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal. but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down,

and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because. of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. All right, Jared Anderson is an undefeated heavyweight contender on Saturday. He makes his hometown debut. First time as a professional, he will fight in Toledo, Ohio, when he takes on former heavyweight title holder Charles Martin. It is a significant step up for Jared Anderson. And a little bit surprising that we have a young fighter just now making his debut in his hometown. So Jared, let's start there. How is it possible that you are fighting in your hometown for the very first time on Saturday. This was real easy, I guess. I didn't have a choice of where I fought.

I just followed Powery's guidance if I were where I needed to to build my fan base. How often did you get to fight in Toledo as an amateur? I really didn't. I was more of an amateur, I mean a tournament fighter, so I fought most of my fights

in tournaments outside of the city. You know, doing this, fighting back in Toledo, Was this your idea? Was it something you've wanted for a while? How did this come about? It's something I wanted for a while. I've been asking for it,

and I regretted me to my wishes. Why was it important to you? So that everybody from home can see me fight in person? You know, in the last couple of weeks, I've seen, you know, the good and bad of guys fighting in their hometown. When I was in New Orleans with Regis Progray, you know, he talked about the stresses of it. He said it was a lot being back home and,

fighting in front of his his home fans and all that comes kind of with it as you know eg berlanga seems to love fighting in new york city where do you stand in all this now that you're kind of in the middle or starting rather your fight week uh how do you feel about everything that comes with fighting in your hometown you asking me on the very first day of fight week so i can't tell you i know yeah i mean if you got are you getting a lot of like ticket requests though from people is it is it different at all than than previous fight weeks be honest i don't even like people So they don't have a good chance with that anyways. All people?

Most. Why is that? A lot of people are not true to themselves, let alone true to others. I think that's the best one to put it. Can you give me an example? I can give you a perfect, I wouldn't call it a scenario, I guess it's saying. if you knew nine out of ten people in this world will always do what's best for them

you would live your life differently. Don't you assume that anyway? And that's why I live the way I live. I don't like what I. I don't disagree with that viewpoint. I think most people are looking out for themselves. I think it leaves room, though, doesn't it, to like people still? You can agree to disagree,

but in most situations, in most cases, especially with me, it just don't work out like that. And especially being where I'm at in my life, you know what I'm saying? It's always what can I do for them and not vice versa. Has your mindset like that always been that way? Or is it because as you've kind of grown in boxing and grown in popularity and fame and all those things, have you changed, evolved a little bit that way? I definitely say I evolved to this.

I never was really like this. I was more of a people person as a kid. it, but growing up, realizing the truths of life and what really goes on in this world, because a lot of people refuse to bring the worst out in the world and to show it, even though it's actually what's happening and what's going on in the world. People try not to show it and they hide it. I'm not one of them people. I face facts and face reality and go with everything head on,

which a lot of people tend not to do. There must have been a trigger, something must have happened in the last few years that kind of shifted you this way. I think it's just over time, just hearing how people think. Seeing a lot of people in this world are non-confrontational,

and I'm the exact opposite. I'm going to fight through whatever adversity or whatever obstacles that I have in front of me until they're not in front of me versus other people going around every obstacle that they can until they get to somewhere where they were like, okay, well, I'm in the middle. I'm fine with that.

Is this because of boxing related stuff, or is this life-related stuff? Boxing is not my life. Right. Like, once I turn these, when you guys turn these cameras off and I take my gloves off and everything else, like, that stops for me. So I have to continue to live my life. So this is a, I'm always living life. I was more asking about sort of the the way people act.

You're talking about the way people act in boxing or the way people act in day-to-day life? Day-to-day life, everybody. Has that changed, like, kind of how you go about your day-to-day life? That's why I said what I said in the beginning. You'll live your life differently if you understood that everybody's going to look out for themselves anyways. But don't you think most people believe that? Like, I know most people I know believe that, that most people are looking out for themselves. Yeah.

most people tend to hide their hands in that also they say that they understand that they know that but they'll hide their hand when they ask you for something or when they turn around in the next 10 seconds also so they can say all yeah 100% understand what you're saying where you coming from on that you know what I'm saying everybody will look out for themselves all that other stuff but hey while you at it let me see if I can get you to do this real quick

or because they want to do something for themselves so even in that you know what I'm saying to me is this It's a circle. You said boxing is not your life. I've heard you say things like that before. Do you like boxing? Do you love boxing? I find joys in boxing.

I find love in the brotherhood and other things of that nature. Boxing is a cool sport. I have been doing it for a long time. Although I have love for the sport, you can always get tired of doing something for too long or too, or too excessively. Are you passionate about it? Yeah, but I don't know.

That's why I'm here. I heard you say at a recent interview, you plan to be retired by the time you're about 27. Why that number? Why are you putting kind of a clock on your career at this point? Why do it for any longer? I've seen a lot of people be unhappy in what they're doing.

And I don't want to be one of those people. So I just want to be able to live my life when I want to live my life. Have you always felt that way? Or is it just the last couple of years you've decided this is when I'm going to wind down? I've been saying since I was 15 years old that I was going to stop boxing early. So I don't think this is a one-time thought. Before you get to that point, what do you want to have, what do you hope to accomplish by then? To make a lot of money.

That's what it's all about, right? ultimately. I mean, for now, for me at least, everybody is not. You know what I'm saying? Everybody got a different. You asked me about passions.

Same thing. Somebody got different passions about stuff. My passion is through boxing and boxing alone, not through any of the titles or recognition that you get from winning that stuff that people claim to think you the best or put you a hall of fans or any of that. People have passions about that. I personally don't. So it's all depending on your passion.

So it's all about making as much money as you can in a sport? Right now, yeah. A fight against Charles Martin, the biggest name, at least on your resume, former title holder at heavyweight. What does he represent to you? What kind of step does he represent for you? The test in front of me. What kind of test are you expecting?

Social studies tests. A lot of history. Well, looking forward to seeing you back. In Toledo. First fight in your hometown should be a great crowd, great atmosphere, and a great fight against Charles Martin, former heavyweight title. Jared, appreciate your time, man.

Oh, thank you. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Corey Erdman and Jared Anderson for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts. And I'll see you next week. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite, unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends,

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