The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Canelo Alvarez stops by

Episode Date: April 23, 2022

Boxing Insider for ESPN, Mike Coppinger stops by the podcast to talk with Chris about the Tyson Fury-Dillion Whyte fight and what might be next for Fury. Later, Canelo Alvarez joins the program to talk about his upcoming fight with Dmitry Bivol and if we will see him get in the ring again with GGG. #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Here's Chris Manix. All right, it's a big fight weekend over in the UK, the heavyweight championship. on the line, Tyson Fury going up against Dillian White. A lot of other things happening in boxing. For that, we're going to go over to the UK to one of my favorite boxing insiders out there.

Mike Coppinger, the boxing insider over at ESPN, is going to be covering the Fury White fight for ESPN, which can be seen here in the U.S. on ESPN Plus pay-per-view. Mike, how was your early experience over in the UK?

Great. Fans here are amazing. This is my third fight in London. I also covered the Anthony Joshua Alexander Poveckin fight in 2018 at Wembley, which I know you were on the broadcast for the zone. And then again, a year later, when Josh Taylor, Fort Regis program at the O2, but this one feels a bit different so far already.

You know, we've all heard, Eddie Hearn, bashed Tyson Fury say he's not a star here. I mean, I think the proof is in the pudding. Fury with his, you know, I think it's four fights in the U.S. has really transformed himself into a megastar over here with those two big wins over Giante Wilder, of course, his charismatic personality. And they're going to have about $94,000 plus on Saturday. And just the presser yesterday was a madhouse.

Boxing is just so much different over here, as you know. It's treated as a major sport and not very much so in the U.S. except on a rare occasion. What do you attribute that to the, the, ticket sales, like you said, the 94,000 plus that are going to be at Wempley. Because I don't think, and I'm sure you agree, that I don't think before Tyson Fury made his way to the U.S. to have the fights against Wilder. I don't think he does this number in the UK three or four years ago.

I agree with you. I think it's a combination of factors. I think you have to give Anthony Joshua a lot of credit. Anthony Joshua being on the UK boxing scene, I think Glyphs Fury as well, because there's interest in a future fight with them. just interest in the heavyweight division in general and boxing in general. And Joshua and Ahern are a big part of that in the UK for short. And then on top of that, Tyson Fury has really built himself.

You know, WWE is really big in the UK. He's done that stuff. He's had the knockouts. And, you know, not to be xenophobic like most Americans are, but I think when you make it, so to speak in the U.S., it does make you bigger in your home country too. And then thirdly, Thulean White is a major pay-per-view star in the UK. I think he's headlined in sky sports pay-per-view, a box office five, six times, somewhere in there.

I doubt this fight is a closer sellout. Fury's fighting just anybody. I think he has the right dance partner as well. Yeah, Dillian's been, you know, when Dillian's been talking, he's been saying, you know, this is not the Tyson Fury show. It's, you know, I'm here too. I'm a pretty big name over the UK as well. So it's definitely a two-man game when it comes to selling this fight and selling out this fight over, Wembley State. But it is good to see so many fans and attendance for an event. It just makes it so much

of a bigger deal. It looks so much better on TV. Let me ask you about the fight itself. I mean, Dillian White, I think we'd both agree, has deserved this opportunity for a long time. The WBC just hosed him, you know, for over a year when it came to not getting him his world title opportunity. He wound up losing Pavecgen, came back and avenged that defeat with spectacular knockout. Now here he is in a world title fight. Tyson Fury, Number one heavyweight in the world coming off those back-to-back wins over Deonté Wilder. How much, how competitive is this fight? I'll put it that way.

Do you look at this as a competitive fight? Or is Tyson Fury the massive favorite that he's being billed as? I truly believe it's a very competitive fight. I think Billion White is a lot better than people giving credit for. He's a number six at hour rankings. I think you could have a number five if you wanted to. Probably hard to have him higher than that. Great body puncher.

most importantly comes to fight tough durable um obviously the perfectian fight notwithstanding the first one and just a big puncher great left hook and he's going to be game this is i mean i in my opinion he is no doubt the most accomplished boxer actively to never receive a title shot i mean we're talking about the four belts era sometimes more than four belts and this guy is 34 years old wins over joseph barker two over gerrit tasora a good fight with joshua that he got to knocked out in years ago and he's never received one title shot. So of course I'm picking Tyson Fury. I think this fight, I don't see any way this fight goes to the distance,

but I think it's going to be a really fun competitive fight. And let's not forget Tyson Fury, yes, he did knock out Giante Wilder in October. That was a brutal fight. Got a knockdown twice. You don't know what that took out of him. I think it's going to be a great fight and I think White's going to come to win. See, one thing I would push back on, I think it goes different direction. I don't think this fight ends in a knockout because I don't think we see Tyson Fury fight the same way that he did against Deonté Wilder.

He learned something in that first fight against Wilder about how to fight the bully. He took the fight to Deontay in the next two after that because that was the best strategy. Went to Sugar Hill and put in that game plan. Look, I don't think he's going to fight South Paul like he did at the open workout. But I think you're going to see maybe a more tactical fight from Tyson Fury where he uses his physical tools to his advantage. I mean, you were there when they were standing next to each other. They're not eye to eye. Like, you know, Tilly and White is giving up about five inches in a fight like this.

And I think Fury coming off those fights with Wilder may be more inclined to kind of use his size advantage, keep White at a distance, drew everything he can to avoid that big left hook that White stopped. so many guys with. I don't know. I mean, I just think, I honestly, I think you're going to see more of the Tyson Fury that we saw against Vladimir Klitsko than the one we saw against Deonté Wilder. What do you think? You bring up a good point. I do think that here is one of the very few fighters. Maybe him, Cano Alvarez, Hurons Crawford, maybe Errol Spence to a degree, maybe forgetting a couple that can fight, you know, an elite level going forward and going

backward. I don't know how many guys that can do it. But I'm not sure. I think Tyson Fury really loves scrapping. I think he loves putting on a great fight. And it was a great performance against Vladimir Klitsko, but it was painfully boring. And I think, you know, Fury is that. I mean, Fury really excelled about malling style. Yes, you're right. He has the range and the height and everything else over Dillion and White. But we saw Pfeck and knockout Dillion White by going on the inside. Billion White has a lot of defensive viability. His chin is just dangling on a silver platter. he makes mistakes. So I do think theory could mall him.

Maybe he does both. Maybe he mauls a bit. Maybe it's a combination of the two. But I do think there is something to be gains from trying to push like I, you know, Dillon and White's not a fighter to hookah going backward. So I do think there's a good reason to push him back and apply some pressure, no? Yeah, I think there's definitely a tactical advantage to doing that. I also am not sure that Sugar Hill, who comes out of that,

Cronk Jim is going to encourage more boxing stuff. Maybe Ben Davidson would have, but Sugar Hill is kind of an offensive, more oriented coach. There's also the possibility that, you know, Tyson Fury can't fight that way anymore. I mean, he doesn't have a lot of boxing miles necessarily on his tires, but you alluded to the fights while that they were wars. His personal life has been, has seen his body kind of ravaged over the years. Maybe he can't fight the way he thought.

against Vladimir Klitschko on his toes and moving and sticking and fighting in that way so we may have to go out there and bang with Dillian. I just think while the Klitsko fight was painfully boring, as you said, I completely agree with that. That's like melatonin to watch if you want to go back and do that. It may be a strategy he employs just to kind of box Dillian White's ears off and win a wide decision. Let me ask you this.

Tyson Fury like threatens to retire like every six weeks or so he's doing it again now where it's you know this this would be the last fight I'm going to go off and be a husband and be anonymous and all all that stuff how much should we believe that you know if he wins this fight he's got

you know nine figures ahead of him with a fight against or two fights maybe against Anthony Joshua or Alexander Usik I mean is that just Tyson Fury bluster. And I guess the follow-up question is like, why does he keep doing that? Like, why does he keep suggesting he's going to retire when most people in boxing are like, dude, we know you're not going to pass on these massive fights and these massive paydays? I mean, yeah, he said all along

that this is when he retired, right? He said it would be, because this is the last time of his contract at the top rank. So he's been saying, to be fair, this would be when he retired all along. And he does seem more adamant than usual. But no, all the same I do not believe him for a second. I mean, if we have Anthony Joshua fighting Alexander Ucich, July 23rd in a rematch, you're telling me if he's going to pass up the opportunity to fight the winner for not only undisputed, but probably something like 80, 90, you know, 100 million in the biggest fight at all of boxing. There's just no way. This guy loves fighting.

He says it all the time, right? He's had his mental health struggles, and he only really feels well in his best when he's fighting when he's training. I think you would just get bored, just like Tom. Brady was retired for what 40 days. So, look, if Tides and Fury wanted to walk away, I certainly don't ever

criticize anybody who gets out of boxing with their health and their money, but I just don't see it. And even if he did retire, it's just like every other one, everyone else in boxing. How many guys actually stick with it? Yeah.

I'll put it this way. I don't think that Fury is going to be defending his WBC title against like Otto Walleen in a rematch. I don't, I don't think he's getting up for that type of fight, but I'm with you. You know,

whenever the Joshua Usick stuff is settled, Fury is getting in the ring with that guy. I mean, Manix, where would you place the odds that Tyson Fury never fights again after the Gillian white fight? Zero. Zero. Honestly, like zero.

Like, I agree with everything you said. He's a fighting guy. Like, he's just a, he's a fighting guy. He's going to get back in the ring. Like,

he may nominally retire in the ring after this fight. but we all know that's nonsense. Like, you know, he'll come to the table once that, he'll probably be at that Fury or Joshua Usick fight and ready to get into the ring and challenge the winner face to face. He just can't help himself. I was actually told that he'll be at the Canel Alvarez, Dimitia Bibble fight in Vegas, just to take it in. All right. I'm sure he'll have plenty of time to talk to the media there about his future.

That should be interesting. The backdrop of this Fury against White fight includes the news that MTC Global, the management company that has worked with Tyson Fury in the past, which was founded by Daniel Kinnahan, co-founded by Daniel Kinnahan, who has been a longtime advisor to Tyson Fury. MTK Global announced they were ceasing operations at the end of the month. They have been tied to Kinnahan over the last couple of weeks in the aftermath of the U.S. Treasury announcing sanctions against Kinnahann and other members of what they call the Kinnahan Ordegeist Crime Organization. There's a bit of bounty placed, effectively $5 million for information on the arrest, that leads the arrest and conviction of Daniel Kinnahann. Fury was asked about this during his fight week. he basically punted each time so that had nothing to do with that. You know, it's his business, not mine.

And then kind of the differently he could kind of run away from that question. You know, let me ask you this. The closing of MTK Global, surprised that they did that. And what are, if any, the ripple effects that will be felt through boxing? Not entirely surprised. I don't really know what other action they have. had considering the sanctions. You know, I know promoters are, I've heard of promoters having fighters sign contract, not contracts, but I guess statements, you know, saying that they're not

advised by Kenahan fighters that have been. So I think it'd be tough to do business with anybody, especially, at least if you're an American fighter right now. And I think the ripple effect is massive. I think Kenahan and Alhaman are easily the two most powerful men in all boxing. You know, you probably put Kenahan number one, right? I mean, you and I know that this guy's pulling strings that no one even, you know, he's pulling all kinds of strings behind the scenes, not just fighters he manages, but putting fights together and fighters that he's not even linked to. So, you know, if this guy is going to be completely removed from boxing,

and I don't know, what happens to the 250 fighters, 200 fighters, whatever it is that he manages, lots of big names there. Josh Taylor, Terrence Cropper, you know, Tyson Fury. And, you know, list goes on and on. So, you know, if you talk about Tyson Fury retiring, that's the only way I could maybe see him retiring because we've seen Tyson, you know, adamant so many times that, you know, his relationship and all that, maybe something like that would be something

that pushes him away at least for a little bit. I don't know. Maybe I'm reaching. But I think the ripple effect is massive. And I think that they'll be unwinding it. for some time now. I mean, where do you think these fighters go? Well, I mean,

some of the, it looks like, you mentioned like a guy like Terrence Crawford who doesn't really need to go anywhere necessarily. Like, he can continue on, you know, with his trainer as his manager and, you know, Jojo Diaz has other opportunities. I'm sure Josh Taylor has other opportunities. I don't know.

I think many of them won't go with a manager. Some of them will go at the other guys that we need. know of and guys maybe they've worked with in the past. But I don't know. I don't know where they, I don't know. I just don't, I'm not entirely sure yet kind of how that affects them. Like, you know, this is not going to affect a potential Crawford Spence fight. It's not going to affect Josh Taylor moving up to welterweight and fighting somebody on that

level. It's, it feels to me almost like a more inside boxing story than one that fans will notice, you know? Like, I'm not so sure what what fans are going to. you know, if a fight gets made or doesn't get made, I'm not sure fans are going to be like, wow, that was, you know, the closing of MTK had something to do with that. You know what I mean? Right.

Like, I don't know if that's the case. I do wonder, Mike, like, MTC is gone. Like, end of the month, they're ceasing operations. What does that mean for Probellum? Probellum is another entity that has been tied to Daniel Kinnahann. They recently did a show in Dubai. Kinnahan is based in Dubai. They've used a lot of MTC fighters on their early shows.

You know, does this put them kind of in the same crosshairs as MTC was? MTC was directly tied to Kinnant. He co-founded their company back in 2012 with Matthew Macklin when it was known as MGM. Probellum, just like MTC has come out and said, we have nothing to do with Daniel Kinnah. Richard Schaefer was on this podcast and said, we're not, that's not us. but, you know, if promoters are viewing Probellum as a, you know, as part of the Kinnahen circle, a lot of them aren't going to work with them either. And if Probellum doesn't have, like, access to a major television deal,

if they don't have access to other promoters, whether it's top rank, Eddie Hearn, they could be in some trouble here. Like, that to me is the big ripple effect. Like Probellum came out to the scene with all this money, big splash, we're going to do big things. They bring in Richard Schaefer. They align themselves with Lou DeBella. But if they're faced with the same kind of backlash that MTC was faced with, I think they could be in some serious trouble. Yeah, it's tough to say right now.

I mean, the most damning thing so far that came out was Bob Arab, right, his many interviews, basically saying that Probellum is linked to Kenahan and, you know, saying that they're one and the same. Of course, like you said, Schaefer says that there is no link, but it might not be, it's probably not going to be a matter of, you know, proving or disproving. Like you said, right? It's going to be, it could be for a lot of networks or promoters, oh, you know, this is the appearance of this. So we're going to stay away maybe. Or I don't know what happens. They always are going to need to have a TV deal or I guess an app or a platform to succeed in the U.S. at least.

So like you said, they made a lot of big signings right out of the gate. I think they were seen as a threat. But now they're going to have to whether this, you know, at least PR storm and perhaps, you know, a bigger issue with the TV networks. Well, that's the thing, right? That's the thing because, you know, MTC isn't closing because, you know, various governments, whether the U.S. or otherwise, are, you know, closing in on them. They're closing, as they said in their statement, because promoters aren't going to work with them.

And if they can't get, and they used a plural. their statement. Like, they mentioned, you know, top rank's been the most visible because Bob's out there, you know, anyone that wants to Zoom with Bob, apparently he's picking up and doing interviews on this stuff and just saying, just, you know, putting stuff out there. But, you know, there's, there's seem to be an implication in that MTC statement that other promoters were taking the same position. And that's, that's the thing.

It's not that MTC couldn't have kept operating. It's just that if you don't have these promoters working with you and you don't have access to these TV deals and the TV. money, you are dead in the water when it comes to being involved in boxing. And that's where I think it could become problematic for Probellum, which has, I don't know what their stable looks like total number right now, but it's a big stable that they're operating with right now. And if you can't get, if you can't do co-promotions in the U.S., you can't get guys on TV globally,

you're in trouble. Like, it's so simple as that. You may be legally able to keep operating, but you will not be able to function as a promoter without that kind of access. I mean, I would say I would be shocked if they just cease operations like MTK. Like I don't see any way that happens. I agree. They put a lot into this.

Richard Schaper is a really smart guy and they have a lot of smart people there. So again, whether you know, whether their links can be proven or not is, you know, that's obviously one question. But the other one is, I mean, they're going to push through. And I think they're going to see if they can make it work. I mean, I didn't have to at this point. And I guess short of a TV network, maybe they can go with an app. I don't know. I guess a lot of it comes down to the fighters, too.

Are the fighters completely on board? I mean, they have some, you know, what happens with Regis program? They're just, I think it is troubling for them that they have some, you know, the kind of accusations and all that so early, you know, in the empathy of what they're trying to lift up the ground. It's probably had a tough time for them. So they bring them a good point. Yeah, they're trying to prove themselves.

and this is kind of hanging over their head, whether they're involved with Kenahan or not. That's not even the point. It's just what's the perception of it. The perception. Yeah. It could ultimately, you know, hurt their business. All right, let's talk about a fight that we've been discussing ad nauseum for far too long.

It's become the Mayweather Pacquiao of the recent generation. Terrence Crawford against Errol Spence. Arrow Spence returned from another long layoff looked impressive against Jorda. Give Ogas credit. He's really. good and he he hurt errol spence uh in that fight last weekend but spence ultimately lands a shot that you know literally breaks the face it becoming like a facebreaker you know in in some of these fights did it to kell brook and now he does it to your danis ugas um you know busts up the uh the eye

of ugas wins uh by knockout now we turn our attention to a showdown between spence and crawford which would be for the undisputed championship at 147 pounds we have heard rhetoric between these two guys, Mike, for years. But as you kind of sit here now, you know, in the middle of 2022, do you look at this fight as being more makeable than ever before or is this going to be, is this going to be something that like Mayweather and Pachiaw, disappoints us once again? I'm fairly confident it's happening later this year. I mean, there have been talks for this fight even before Spence Farrow, who, us and that's why you hear Spence talking so confidently about it now. That really was the biggest

roadblock was Terrence Corpard being with Top Ring. PBC does not want to do business with Top right, especially not for a fight that, you know, they could lose, right? A 50-50 fight with somebody they built into a star. So I still think the money could be an issue. It's not going to be easy. Terence Corpard made $6 million in its last fight, a paper view that did not perform up to expectations. against Sean Porter and Errol Spence, I don't know what he made for this last fight, but you can be assured it's in that range. So how much are they going to want to fight each other?

Are they willing to take... I mean, you can't pay each guy $10 million. This is not going to be a commercial bananas in my opinion. This is not going to be a $500,000 in my opinion. What is this fight do, Chris? I'll pay per view. It's a great... It's a great point.

And I've raised this a couple of times. Like, for the boxing purist or diehard whatever you want to call us like us. Like we want this fight bad because we'll be both be there. Like this is a great fight. It is for, I mean, it's for all the marbles. One of the best fights you can make. Maybe the best fight you can make in all of boxing.

But it doesn't break through right now. It doesn't reach the mainstream in the way you need to reach it in order to get that 500,000 by, 600,000 buy. You know, the numbers that, Mayweather puts up, Canello puts up, these other guys put up. It just doesn't, it's just not there. I mean, you know, I don't know who you blame for that specifically, but it's not going, I think you're right.

I think it's 300 to 400,000 right now. And if you're talking about a fight in that range, the guarantees are going to be tough. I agree with you that, you know, but removing the top rank obstacle obviously makes things a lot easier. But I've always thought money was like 1A in this problem, especially when, you know, Spence early on was out there talking about 6040, even 70, 30, the kind of split. He's obviously come off that at this point. He's more reasonable with his demand. So I think split is going to be okay.

But like the guarantees I think are going to be a problem. Like will PBC come up and say guarantee $9 million here, $8 million there plus upside? Like, and will they take that? Like that to me is my big concern right now. Like how much is going to be guaranteed these guys? Because I don't, I don't think it's going to reach the kind of. of mass audience that it probably should, but for whatever reason, has, well, has not cracked through. Yeah, I mean, negotiations are not going to be easy for this one. I can't imagine.

Showtime is probably going to have to put up some money that they've done it in the past. And again, I have no problem with a fight that's a good being on pay-per-view, which is just a shame that a fight this good won't be seen by more people. Because it is going to be, like you said, an excellent fight. It's going to be an amazing action fight too. I have no idea who wins. I go back and forth in my head. And I do think it does a really nice, healthy gate if it happens in Las Vegas or even Dallas, but Vegas is much better for high gates. I think both fighters are going to have to be slightly reasonable.

And by the way, 300 to 400 is no joke. I mean, that's a really good pay per view. So I think if both guys can be reasonable, we can make this fight happen. But I don't know. You can't pay them 10 million apiece, I don't think. I mean, if they get it, good for them. But it's just hard to justify unless you're willing to really roll the dice and bet that if you do a strong promotion, which, you know, PBC and Showtime are totally capable of doing.

Like you can do a multi-city press store and, you know, try to really glom on to the mainstream fan, remind people of how good this fight could be, as you said, action-wise. You know, maybe, but it's, you know, someone's either going to have to take a lot of. a big risk, whether it's Showtime or PBC, or Crawford and Spence are going to have to be realistic with their demands. Do you think that Crawford fights before then? Like, you know, he's been inactive since that last fight with Top Rank. Do you think he tries to get back in the ring, or do you think we go straight into potentially a Spence and Crawford fight? I don't, I've spoken to people around the fight and I don't, there are no plan to Cairns to fight right now. I mean,

unless it's something I don't know about. And I would, I would rather him, have a fight, you know, just because Spence just had a fight too. But it seems like Crawford doesn't ever have ring rust. I mean, he's always dominant. He's always training. I know he was just this, this week helping score Stevenson prepare for Oscar Valdez. And I would say as media members often for, I think a lot of us are calling for it and saying, you know, it has to happen now, probably two years ago, three years ago. And it's actually been perfectly marinated to steal Bob Barron's term.

Like, if it happens this fall, it's probably bigger than it's ever been. But I would say now that if it doesn't happen this fall, all right, we're starting to get past the expiration day. Like, now is the time. Like, I can't imagine a better time than right now. Spence coming off that performance. Crawford coming up to Porter, when they're both still in their primes and in their, you know,

early to mid-30s. Now's the time. Yeah, and there's nowhere else to go at this point. Like, I give Spence a ton of credit. Like, he has fought every top welterweight not named Terrence Crawford. Like, he's gone out there and, and face the best competition. But if he doesn't fight Terrence Crawford, what's he going to do? He's not going to fight Virgil Ortiz.

Like, no matter what Oscar Delahoeia tweets. And Terrence Crawford hasn't been able to secure a big fight forever. Like, he's not going to just pivot to Keith Thurman and fight, like, you know, it doesn't make any sense. The only fight that makes sense is between these two guys. Otherwise, I think one or both is going to move up, and we might lose that fight. potentially forever. Let's talk for a minute about something that happened at the Spence fight last weekend. You were there, and I'm just, you got Jamal Charlo, my man, Jamal Charlo, who is, it was at the fight.

He was there on the broadcast talking about its upcoming fight against Macha Zaleski. When he went off the air, he got into it with David Benavides, his fellow BBC middleweight, super middleweight. They got into it. Jose Benavides, the father of Benavitas, was kind of in the middle of that at some point.

You were there. What did you make of that altercation? Well, obviously, I didn't see the broadcast, but apparently Charlo was taking some pretty big shots of Benavitas on the broadcast, what I heard. And then, so when I heard about the fight of ringside, he was also, by the way,

he was also defending the Silesky fight, which I kind of had to, like, just put Twitter down for a minute. I just, I couldn't with that. that. I want to say to all the listeners that you, I thought it was jokingly said to me for well over a year now that watch, Charlo's going to fight Suleki. And I was like laughing about it. And sure enough, I mean, I will say, Charlo did want to fight Jaime Mangia. I give him credit for that. He did want to fight him. So, but I mean, I don't blame Charlo is necessarily for the

Seleki fight. I think it's, I blame PBC more. But like, yikes. Like, I don't, no one needs to see that fight. Charlo, Charlo, I don't know what you want to say about him. He's an excellent fighter. I mean,

I love watching Charlo fight. And that's why we want to, anytime you and I and other people are calling for these kind of fights because we like seeing these fighters fight. And sometimes fighters, like, get mad about it,

but like, if we're not talking about you, then, but anyway, so I don't know. But it's like, but that, just before you do that,

it's like, and I say this other podcast, I'm accused of being like a Jamal Charlo hit. I'm not. Like, I just, I don't care about, you know,

Charlo Juan Montiel. I don't care about Charlo Machek-Sulesky. I mean, you're right. It's not Charlo's fault that this Silesky fight is happening. He did try to make the Mungia deal. It did seem like they had at least financially agreed to terms and all that. But like the previous stuff is his fault. Like not pushing harder for Demetra Zandreid is his fault.

Like kind of just fighting once a year and protecting that belt is his fault. So like that's my big issue. I've always said like if Charlo gets in the ring with Demetri's Ander, I have no idea who wins that fight. It's an excellent fight between two top guys. We just want to see it. So Charlo Andrade is off the table. Is Charlo Bedevarez a possibility at this point?

Well, I'm sorry, Chris, but Charlo Benevarez is a much better fight than your fantasy fight. It's a great fight. Badez is a fighting machine. I mean, I think everyone loves that guy. He just comes forward, hands down, throws, you know, 100 punches, whatever it is around, with power. he's turning, I think he has a real chance to be a star. He just needs the right fights.

But certainly he's very accommodating. He's, oh, you know, he talks great trash. And so anyway, I walked over to him. I was in Dallas. I walk over to him. And I see the commotion is kind of dying down. And I was like, hey, what happens? And he said, well, Jamal Charles started shouting at my father.

So I got in his face, you know. And I asked Kinello about this yesterday. And I said, because, you know, both, obviously, both Charlo and Benavides have lobbied shots of Canelo, and both are excellent matchups in their own right. But Canello is usually said, well, why don't they fight each other and earn a shot? So I asked Canello, I said, hey, what did you think about this whole fight at ringside ring and all that? Did you see what happens? So he said, they need to fight in the ring. Why outside the ring?

It doesn't make sense. They have some problems fix it in the ring. And then I said, okay, well, do you think, you know, I asked them like, do you want to see the fight or whatever? He said, I don't care if they fight each other or not, not my problem. So there you have it from Connell Alvarez. But he is right. I don't understand that. Like, you're how much, I think this is at least the second frack as they've been in.

Like, just fight each other. Make millions of dollars. It's, in my opinion, one of the three or five best fights you can make it all in boxing. And then after that, the winner would, you can't deny the winner a big opportunity. People would then be calling for Canello to fight one of those guys. I agree. You know, Charlo's got a belt at 160, but he's a big 160. You can see him moving up sooner rather than later.

Benevita's is up there at 168. Benevita is going to fight David Lemieux next month. Charles is going to fight Cilleschi. Like, you can do it for the end of the year. Like everything just lines up right there for that fight to happen. But I just, that's one, Mike. We talked about Crawford Spence. Like we have some, both have some optimism for Crawford Spence.

I still have zero optimism for Charlo Benavides. Maybe it's because I've been burned so badly on like, these, you know, Charlo Andrade personal feelings that I've had over the years. I just don't see it. I don't see. I'm not sure if Charlo fights again, you know, there's, I know there's been some talk about Charlo Daniel Jacobs. If Jacobs doesn't wind up fighting Jaime Manglia.

Yes, give me Charlo Benev, I'm with you. Charlo Benavita, but I just don't. I don't, I don't believe it. I don't think it's going to happen. I think there may be more of a chance we see Benavita as Caleb Plant before the end of the year. but which I'm also fine with by the way I'm fine with that fight

and Benevi doesn't plan would be a great fight too or they hate each other too yeah he had three guys that are all top of their games like what are we doing? Get in the ring get in the ring white each other

what's happening here out there last thing for you I want to ask you about Ryan Garcia who returned a couple of weeks ago what a decision against the Manuel Tago Esau Cruz

won this past weekend on the undercard of the Spence Fight beat the artist formerly known as Yuri Orcas Gambo. We got to stop putting Yuri Gambo in the ring. Like we just have to stop doing this. I mean, I don't blame the broadcast at all, but I can't hear, I don't want to hear former Featherweight champion again with Yuri Orcas Gamboa. And that's like calling, it's like one step below calling like Chop Chop Corley, the former Welterway champion. It's like, we're just, we're just so far removed from that.

Like he's just such a. washed version of himself. But I thought Cruz looked great. He wins by knockout. He shows power, shows aggression. It was an excellent first performance after the narrow loss to Gervante Davis. Ryan Garcia takes the social media and says, I want you. We saw Cruz at the press conference afterwards.

Cruz seemed to be on board with that matchup. Do you think that's a fight that can get made? And is that the right fight for Ryan Garcia? Yeah. Ryan Garcia didn't look his best against Manuel Tago, but, you know, I don't want to, Ryan was coming up a long layoff, a lot of it, you know, physical issues, mental issues, and Tago did not open up at all. So kind of hard to look good against that kind of fighter. That was just, yeah, Ryan was in a tough spot there. He did hurt him a couple of times, and you can argue that he could have finished him off, but he didn't. But I know Ryan Garcia is a lot better than he showed him that night, and I'm not worried about him. He's not crude. I don't. I don't. don't think is as good as he showed against Chavante Davis. I think he's a solid fighter, and I'm not going to put much credence, like you said, into the Gambolo performance. I mean, Gambo is still trying to fight with his hands at his waist, and his reflexes

are clearly not what they once were. So that really doesn't work anymore. I don't know. I could see Ryan Garcia potentially fighting Cruz, if Cruz is going to get a boatload of money and then PBC wants to put him over there. Otherwise, it's going to be the same song and dance, right? Golden Boy is not going to do it with with PBC and vice versa. And, you know, PBS is going to say the same thing.

They want it on their platform. Golden Boy will want it on their platform. That's one of those, though, Mike. Like, that's what it's like, you know, Ryan Garcia, what he wants, he gets. Like, that's a levels above. Like, I would think, right? Yeah, of course, of course.

You know, if you get, if you get like Mungia and Charlo, you can have a legitimate debate about who should be involved broadcast-wise. But, like, this is Ryan Garcia. Like, you know, versus he's. Suck Cruz. I'm sorry. I agree. Yeah. Like that's...

I guess it's... I'm just saying that it's going to be... It's going to be so much money that Cruz's people say, okay, we're sorry. We're just taking this fight. Yeah. Otherwise, the politics of the sport are going to say that, oh, well, Cruz will just fight some PVC guy in his next bout. If I'm Cruz, though, if I can get, you know, I don't know, I've heard some numbers close

to seven figures that he might be able to get to fight Ryan Garcia. If I can get that, I jump at that because the opportunity. to fight Ryan Garcia is probably not going to be there much longer. I mean, I think Ryan Garcia at some point soon is earmarked for 140, and that might be the end of any talk of a fight with Esau Cruz. And Garcia, to your point, might be at his most vulnerable right now. I know, I agree with you. Tago, I mean, Tago, I don't even want to go back and make this about it.

But he talked so much shit during that fight week and then just did nothing. Like, he went out there and did not engage with Ryan Garcia at all, at all, at least not until the very end of that fight when he opened up a little bit. But Garcia looked, you know, a little vulnerable out there to the point where Cruz has got to have in his mind, like if I believe in my power, my aggression, I might be able to do something with Ryan Garcia. I do, I don't want to, like, I think Cruz is good. I do get some kind of Romero Duno vibes, though, off Cruz to bring it back to kind of

a, a, Ryan Garcia. I mean, you remember when Duno, like, there was that period where it was like Ryan's afraid of Duna wouldn't sign on to fight him. Duna went out in like late 2019 and stopped Ivan Delgado and, you know, people were wondering, like, you know, is this the guy that's going to beat Ryan Garcia? And then he faces Garcia on the Canelo Wondercard and just gets steamrolled in the first round. Now, I don't, I don't think that's going to happen to, I think Cruz is better than Duno. But he kind of presents the same type of style where, like, if he comes forward and Ryan

Garcia, who is very good at fighting guys like that, you know, Gervante, by his own admission, isn't great at fighting guys small to them. Ryan Garcia is. And, you know, his ability to time guys, if Cruz comes in, like, a little bit too reckless, he's going to get caught with something big. And I know he's got a chin. He stood up to him at the distance with Jervante Davis, but you get hit with one of those flash left hooks.

You're done, no matter who you are in this division. So I hope it happens because, you know, there'll be some buzzer. for that fight because of what a Cruz has done over the last year, but it might be the perfect fight for Ryan Garcia, because I'm not so sure that Cruz is, you know, a top lightweight as he kind of has looked like over the last eight months. Yeah, it's funny to kind of hear Jojo Diaz be throwing the same mixes, I mean, Jojo Diaz to be as a far better fighter.

At least, you know, he's proven to be a far better fighter. You know, Cruz can certainly, you know, get to that level, prove it. But yeah, I would pick Ryan Garcia over Enoch Cruz by K.O. with confidence. And hopefully we get the fight we all want to see, which is Ryan Garcia versus Javonte Davis. Like, you know, that one, you know,

both guys are very young, so we have time on that. But you mentioned, like, you know, Ryan Garcia could be at 140 soon. Kevin Haney could be at 140 soon. Hey, I would love it. Maybe we could do the four kings at 140 and then. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not good. No, we couldn't get him at 135.

I'm not going down that rabbit. I want the four kings at 140 and then they'll still not fight each other. It would be the same. We could talk for years about it. They all might get stopped by Regis Progray at that point. Regis will just hang it at 140 just like trying to get a belt and then hopefully get one of those big fights for him. Last thing, I'll put you on the spot. We mentioned up some hypothetical fights and now we're into April, you know, going into May at a couple of weeks.

Like this year, I'm going to ask you about three fights that we've quasi discussed here. Spence versus Crawford, does it happen in 2022? Yes or no? Yes. I say it happens and I'm going to say it happens like late in the year, November, December, something like that. Jamal-Charlotte David Benavides, does it happen in 2022? Begrudgingly, I say no. Yeah, I'm with you on that one.

And lastly, we mentioned Giovante Davis. Jervante Davis, Ryan Garcia. Does that happen in 2022? Oh, look, I'm not going to get greedy. I'm going to say no. I'm going to say we're going to get Spence Cropper, and I'm going to be happy with it. And you know what?

If we told me that we get one of those three fights, I'm happy. So I'm going to say no to that one as well. We treat boxing like baseball at this point. Like if we bet 333, like that's a big win for the year. One out of three. We're above the Mendoza line, yeah. Stay above the Mendoza line, exactly.

Mike, great to talk to you again. You follow Mike's work over in the UK all week long. He will be at Tyson Fury against Dillian White. Again, that's a fight you can watch on ESPN Plus pay-per-view here in the U.S. Follow Mike on Twitter at Mike Koppager. Thanks for joining me, man. I appreciate it. All right, thanks to have me, Chris.

When we come back, I'm joined by Canelo Alvarez. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all. Bet it in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to? do a little kill. Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but yeah, yeah, literally. But just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have age. on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years

for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Fight fans, take your best shot with a risk-free bet of up to $1,000 from Fanduil Sportsbook. Even if your fighter gets knocked out or tapped out, new customers get up to 1,000, dollars back if your first bet doesn't win. Just sign up with the promo code boxing to bet on all the biggest boxing matches in UFC fights.

Choose the money line to the method of victory and so much more. Fandle is America's number one sportsbook. The app is so easy to use and when you win, you'll get paid fast. And Fandual Sportsbook has just launched in Ontario, Canada. To place your first bet risk free, just sign up with the promo code boxing. So Canella, you just kind of keep jumping from training camp to training camp big fight to big fight um i'm wondering do you have any tricks for kind of staying motivated to keep things fresh so you are as sharp as you need to be i love boxing i love what i do so this is part of my life i don't come to the gym like no i need to train because i have a big fight no this is part of my life uh now Is it ever difficult for you to find motivation to kind of get up and come to the gym and work?

This kind of fight. This kind of challenge makes me motivate myself. So this kind of fights, big fights like this make me feel motivated. Is it the same kind of motivation you had 10 years ago when you were younger and coming up? Maybe more. Maybe more. Why more? Even more, because I'm here where I want to be, right, when I was done.

So I want to still be in this level, be the best fighter. So maybe more motivate right now. Do you think if you didn't have a big time opponent that you wouldn't be able to get as motivated, that you kind of need somebody that's dangerous, like a bevel or a plant or whoever? Yes, I think so. Yes. If no, it's like, oh, I'm going to fight like,

okay fighter, but no, I don't feel like that. That is a big challenge for me. So that's why I keep fighting with this kind of fighters to make myself a big challenge for my, for myself. You are a married man now. You have children. Does that make you want to box more or less?

I just don't see myself out of boxing. So I want to fight many years, but you know, you know, this is, this is a sport at time. And I just always say, Six years, seven years more, and that's it. But maybe less, maybe more. We don't know. Do you like having your kids at your fights?

Yeah. Why do you like them there? What does it do for you? They motivate myself. They motivate. They bother me. So that's why I saw them. I hear them.

And I get more excited. You have a teenager now. Do you, does she understand kind of, how does she feel about you being in the ring, fighting, getting punched? How that feels? Oh, she loves what I do. But she put a little nervous, but she loves what I do. And she's so proud of me. She always says when I be like you that in my career, like she jumps horses.

Yeah, equestrian, right? Yeah. Yeah, she said, I want to be like you. I want to be the best. That's why I always practice, always riding my horses. That's the key. You have talent and you need to be disciplined in what you do, and you're going to be the best one day.

How good are you at riding horses? I'm really good. How good is she? Really good. She's the best. She has a big tournament coming at the end of that April, that global, really big. What got her into horse racing? Why did that become her sport of choice?

I don't know. She loves horses. I always love horses and I have horses, but she said, I want to ride horses, jump in horses. So, okay, do it. and she loves you mentioned that you know you don't know how long you'll fight six seven years maybe less

boxing can be a hard sport to walk away from at least it has been for many do you think it will be easy for you to walk away from when it's time no I didn't think so it's gonna be hard

but it is what it is how will you know it's time how will you know when it's time know when it's time. Your body. Your body told you when it's time to go. So you don't think you'll be like

a Bernard Hopkins and fight in your 50s? That case is special. I don't think that'll ever be done again when you're that old. But if yes,

I don't want to be fighting up 50 years old. Yeah, that's kind of a dangerous sport to be in at that age. You're preparing for this fight against Bebel, and one thing I was reading about was you're going vegan for this fight. Why did you make that decision? No 100% but try. I feel good. I feel good.

And I try and not 100%, but I try and I feel good. Why did you decide to try? I saw, I watched a documentary on Netflix about the food and everything and that's why. Not the bad vegan documentary. Was that the one you watched? I don't know, held something. Is that a name? Okay.

Okay. And has it made you, has it had an effect on you? Do you like it? No, I like it. I like it. Talk about the food. make you going

cancer diabetes everything like that do you feel any different training you know because of that kind of food no

same the same you're a couple weeks away now from facing Dmitri Bevel like you face some dangerous guys some really skilled guys

undefeated fighters when you look at Bevel what makes him a dangerous opponent Oh He's a good fighter and a difficult fighter too. He's a fighter who fights at distance, have a good distance, good modes. He's fast for the division, so he's strong.

And he's a solid champion in 175. So he's a danger fighter. But I like it. You fought a lot of guys, Canelo, that have tried to jab you to a, to a win, throw a million jabs and beat you that way. I guess Bevo is probably going to try to do a lot of the same things. What is the key to beating guys who try to jab you that much? Be patient.

Be patient and go and find that way to go inside. So, and be patient. You know, every time there's a UFC fight, we hear about a UFC fighter calling you out. Do you ever have any interest in doing that in fighting a guy from the MMA world? Not right now. Not right now. Maybe when I was, when I, sorry, when I have 38, you know, you never know.

It feels like that's, that's an easy fight. I mean, some of these UFC guys are great UFC fighters, but. They're not boxers. Like, it feels like it's easy money for you. So even more easy money. As you kind of feel yourself right now and where you're at in boxing, do you feel like there's anybody that can beat you? Do you have that kind of feeling right now?

Oh, it's boxing, but I feel nobody can beat me right now. I feel in my prime. And not in respect to other fighters, no? It's a great fighter right there, but I feel in my prime. I feel strong. I feel in my best. You're always working on something with Eddie Rinozo. Are you still improving?

Do you feel like you're still getting better as a fighter? Yeah, always. We always try to do something different. Always learn something different in the gym. Try to don't do mistakes, the same mistakes I do in last fight. So we always work. working something. So you feel you'll be even a better fighter against Bevel? Yeah, of course. It depends on the fighter. Depends the fighter, you know. Sometimes the fighters,

I need to do something different. With other fighters, I don't want to do too much things. So it depends on the fighters. Well, your English has gotten a lot better the last couple of years, I can tell you that. It's excellent. Thank you. I try, I try. I try my best. Before I let you go, did, I want to have to ask you, did you watch Golofkin's fight and what did you think of it? No, I don't watch the, the Golofkin fight. I watch highlights, but I don't watch the entire fight. And I saw the same thing. And Golopkin did what supposed to do, right?

I always say he's going to call Murata. He did. Did you think he looked good doing it? I looked like I watched the highlights. I don't know. I don't. I need to watch that entirely to see. But he looks good.

He looks strong like always. I don't know that downs. You have your own fight. obviously with Bevo, but are you happy that he won? I mean, because that would set up? I don't care. I don't care. I'm 100% focused in my fight.

So I don't care about him. He won already, but 100% focus on my fight. I had a really dangerous fight. Yeah, no question about that. Bebo's undefeated, and he's excellent. Kennell, looking forward to seeing you during Fight Week, man. Thanks for taking some time. Thank you.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard,

but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

Follow at Clifford and a TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Time now for this week's picks brought to you by our friends over at Fanduil.

And this week, no surprise, I am focused on the big one. Tyson Fury against Dillion White, WBC Heavyweight Championship on the line over in the UK. More than 90,000 fans expected at Wembley. This is going to be a big event. Now, Tyson Fury is the favorite, and it's easy to see why. He is coming off back-to-back spectacular wins over Deonté Wilder, whereas Dillion White is just a couple of fights removed from getting knocked out by Alexander Pavec. So I think your money is safe betting on Fury.

I think he has an advantage over White in virtually every possible way. He's the better boxer. He's got, I think, more overall power. He is going to have so many size and physical advantages in this flight. He has proven me very good at using them. So Fury, even at minus 600, is a pretty safe bet to take on that. Now, method of victory, I think is interesting. This is where I think you can win some money.

Most people are expecting this fight to end one way or the other by knockout. Fury, he just knocked out Wilder twice. Dillion White, he has got great power in that overhand left. But I think this is going to be more of a boxing match. I don't think you're going to see Tyson Fury be as aggressive as he was against Deonti Wilde. I think you're going to see more of the Fury that we saw in the first fight against Wilder. Or we saw during his first career-defining win against Vladimir Clitchco. I think he's going to be more of a boxer in this one.

And if that's the case, I can see this fight ending in a 9-3-10-2 type of decision. Decision. Fury by points is plus 240 according to Fandul, and that I think is a bet that you should jump on. So take Fury to win. He's a favorite. You got to bet big to make that worth your while. But the real bet I think is Fury by Decision. Those are my picks brought to you by FanDule. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Mike Coppinger and Canello Alvarez for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you download. podcast. And next week, we will be in New York for the Katie Taylor Amanda Serrano fight, the biggest fight in women's boxing history. We will be there on the scene.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away. such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two.

Listen to Stuff to Bo Your Mind on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.