The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Canelo - GGG: Trilogy week

Episode Date: September 16, 2022

Chris is in Las Vegas for the fight we've all been waiting for. Canelo and GGG are getting together for one more bout. Keith Idec joins Chris to talk about and dissect this fight from all angles and what it means for both fighters. #Volume #ColinCowherd #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Watch this. Andrew Ruiz is the heavyweight champion. Hosted by S.I's Chris Mannix. That was my moments. Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing, When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix. All right, welcome back to another episode of Boxing with Chris Mannix,

part of the Volume Sports Podcast Network. We've got a great show for you this week. I am in Las Vegas, the site of Canelo Triple G, the trilogy completing fight between two of the biggest stars in boxing. That will go down Saturday night at T-Mobile Arena, live on DeZone pay-per-view. I have been here all week long. I have talked to the fighters.

I have talked to the trainers. I have talked to people that know the fighters and the trainers. And I'm going to break down this fight from all angles with you. Keith Ideck, friend of the program, boxing scene.com. He is going to join me, and we are going to have a pretty robust discussion about this fight and exactly what it means for both fighters. And a reminder, after the fight, I'm going to be coming to you with a bonus pod. The Latin snake himself, Sergio Amora, he is going to join me fresh from ringside to talk about what we saw on Saturday night between Canelo and Triple G.

All right, Keith Ideck, boxing scene.com. I'm going to give you an over-under. How many slices of pizza do you think I've eaten this week? I thought you're going to say how many slices of pizza have I eaten, which I would have been higher probably. Three days so far, three full days. How many slides do you think? Ten? Wow. You went higher. Seven. Seven slices of pizza, including two today. No, I do not want any more pizza. You're getting another slice of pizza.

Thank you, because I'm brought over to me. No, I'm all set with pizza. We are in the MGM Grand Press Center, the home areas. I'm getting heckled by mid-level PR staffers from the side. Fred Sternberg. Fred's always heckling someone. He's like that. That's correct, yes.

I am Greg Bishop's intern. We are here at the MGM Grand Press Center. the site of Ghanady Golovkin, Canelo Alvarez. The trilogy completing third fight is Saturday. You can watch that fight on DeZone pay-per-view. All right, so let's just kind of start here, Keith, with Canello Golofkin. Like the buzz you're kind of feeling for this fight compared to the previous two. You're at both those previous two fights.

How are you feeling going into this one compared to the other two? Well, it's only Thursday, I guess, but more people are going to filter into Las Vegas over the next couple of days for Mexican Independence Day weekend. I'm sure the way in will be wild tomorrow. I guess the question is more like, is this fight as compelling as the first? Oh, the fight itself or the event? I mean, I guess a little bit of both. But yeah, I mean, I think both are less compelling.

I think that's probably fair because four years have passed since the last fight. You know, they've separated themselves in a variety of ways. Triple G is obviously 40 years old. He's only fought four times in the four years, somewhat pandemic-related. had COVID himself, of course. So there's less buzz. I mean, just the way it is. I mean, this fight, in my opinion,

based on people that I've spoken to, the pay-per-view buy rate, they're expecting to be lower than for Canelo-Alvarez's fight against Caleb Plant last year, which no one would have said if they would have fought three years ago. Of course, Caleb Plant hadn't fought

Canelo-Avers at that point, but no one would have said that Triple G Canelo-3 would do less pay-per-view buys than Caleb Plant Canelo Alvarez. No one sane would have said that. And now that's being discussed in boxing circles by people who know what they're talking about because the event is probably happening three years later

than it was supposed to have happened or should have happened. And it's $85, which is, you know, a pretty high price point, I suppose. But they are still two of the biggest stars in the sport. Canello is the biggest star in the sport, certainly in American boxing. He's the biggest star. and the rivalry does mean something. People do want to see the third fight,

and I personally think the fight itself is going to be a competitive fight. I don't see, just because Triple G's 40 years old, I don't see Canelo Alvarez coming in there and running him out of the ring or beating him up to the degree where he could potentially stop him. I don't see that happening. I see a, maybe not as competitive of a fight as their second fight, but still a reasonably competitive fight

that Canelo Alvarez will win by United States. unanimous decision. So what's the biggest question for you coming into this fight? You've got some variables out there, right? You mentioned the age of Gannati-Gilofkin, just months removed from turning 40 years old. He has been relatively inactive since that second fight against Canello back in the fall of 2018. He's 4-0 since then. He's reclaimed his middleweight title. He has unified that middle-weight title. Well, hey, look, I was on record. I thought he was 3-1. I thought he lost the Dervenchenko fight. But judges gave it to him. He's been on the wrong end of judging as well, so we'll give him that one. But, you know, he fought Dervenchenko, good fight,

Steve Rolls, not so much. Camille Zarameda, thanks for coming. And then, you know, Ryota Marada, who I think it's safe to say was the weakest of the middleweight champions that were out there at the time. So that's the Golochenside. Canelo's side, he's coming down from 175. He's coming off his first loss in almost 10 years. Like, what's the biggest question for you? What are you looking for in this fight? Well, the biggest questions for me are how is he going to, how is Triple G going to compete with Canello now that he's 40 years old? Because look, the first four plus rounds of the Marada fight were not good for Triple G. He got hit a lot.

You know, Canello said the other day when I asked him about this, he said he felt like Triple G, he didn't use the word respect, but he felt like Triple G had felt his power early in the fight, wasn't really all that concerned about it, and maybe was a little laxed offensively, which he would not do against. against Canello probably. So maybe the performance wasn't quite as bad as it appeared. And it was also his first fight in almost 17 months. You know, he was rusty. You know, he hadn't fought in a long time. He's fighting in his opponent's home country. There are a lot of variables there that could have made it more, you know, more difficult for him than people expected. Of course, once he got into a rhythm and he started busting up Marada, you know, he dominated him over the last few rounds, dropped him and stopped

him and I think it was the ninth round, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. So overall, a good performance, you know, he won by technical knockout. He was winning on all three scorecards, so it wasn't like he was behind in the fight and came back and stopped him or anything. Not a great performance. But the questions that we would be asking quite naturally, Chris, is how is he going to fight at 40 years old against an elite level opponent, which Marada is not.

No one's going to confuse Canelo Alvarez for Riotto Marada. So that's what we have to find out, right? At 40, can he still be as competitive with someone as good as Canello? Now, he's going to use that power jab, which was really effective for him in the second fight. He's going to throw a lot of punches. He's going to throw more punches than Canello, even at 40. He's eight years older, but he's going to be more active just because that's not the way Canello fights for the most part. So is that going to be enough to beat Canelo Alvarez?

I don't think so. But, look, Canello's not invincible. We found that out four months ago, right? He decisively lost that fight. A lot of people thought, you know, the scores were entirely. too close. Way too close. I'm sure we'll get into the scorecards later. But, you know, he lost nine rounds probably. And it was still one-fifteen, one-13 on all three cards, which I understand why Triple G cannot make a public thing out of this. Like, he can't make it seem like it's on his

mind. How could it not be on his mind? He won the first fight, had to settle for a split draw. Second fight was very competitive. I thought Canella won. I understand the perspective. of people who might think that Gullovkin won, but I do think Canello deserve the nod in that fight. So in my mind, they're one-in-one, and this is kind of unofficially a rubber match, but at 40 years old and at 168 pounds for the first time, a division in which Canelo Alvarez has succeeded as much, he beat everyone, cleaned out the whole division, beat a whole bunch of undefeated champions. Some people might say those guys are not, you know, Callum Smith, Billy Joe Saunders, Caleb Plant are not elite-level fighters, but they were world champions.

They were undefeated world champions when he beat them, and he cleaned out the division in a very short amount of time. Yeah, the judging is interesting because if you're Golofkin, don't you have to just kind of sell out in this fight? Like, you cannot count on getting a decision against Canelo Alvarez in Vegas. I was with you. I forget I always scored the B-Bowl fight, but it was at least 8-4, maybe 9-3 in favor of B-Bow.

The fact that all three judges had 1-15, 113, whereas if one-round had flipped, that would have been a draw in that fight. That was wild. Bevo deserved to win that fight. But if you look at the history of Canelo in Vegas, he gets close decisions. Now, that's not to say he doesn't deserve to get them. I mean, people can argue Arislandi, Lara may have beat Canelo.

I thought that was a close fight and, you know, sometimes it goes the other way. But you go back to even the losses, whether it was the Bevo fight or the atrocious scorecard we saw in the Mayweather fight where C.J. Ross had it even a fight that Canello clearly lost. doesn't Golofkin or shouldn't Golofkin have the mindset in this fight where I got to go for broke I have to try to knock this guy out because that will probably be the only way I can win I would say yes Chris except that he would then be exposing himself to getting caught with something and being in finding himself in a position that he's never found himself and we've never seen Ganadi Golovkin quote unquote hurt I know he's felt particular punches in his career and maybe

masked it very well but we haven't seen him knocked down beaten up or anything like that and if you take those kinds of risks and just throw caution to the win because of what you're mentioning, which makes sense, but I don't know that he can do that. Easier said than done. Right. And I don't know that you speed counter puncher. That's what I'm saying. I mean, you put yourself in a position where you could get clipped with something that could

really get you knocked out, end your career, whatever it might be, because Canello is just too dangerous to do that. But on the flip side, you can't go into this fight based on many of the things that you just mentioned, thinking that you're going. going to win on the scorecards, whether that's obviously unfair and shouldn't exist, but that's the subjective nature of scoring boxing. And for whatever reason, Canelo Alvarez gets the benefit of the doubt on the scorecards virtually every single time.

The scorecards that C.J. Ross submitted for the Mayweather fight and Adelaide Bird, even more so for the first fight between Triple G and Canello, are two of the worst score cards in recent boxing history. Common denominator, obviously, is Canelo, and people haven't forgotten any of that. There's no way Triple G hasn't forgotten that. That's what I'm saying. There's no way Triple G's forgotten about that. Chris, I'll say this.

I don't want to disparage guys who are quality judges like Dave Moretti and Steve Weisfeld, but I can't imagine that Triple G is okay with them scoring the fight, this fight, because they both scored the Bivol-Kinello fight, 115-113, for Canello. I think we're all in agreement that that's just entirely too close. They both scored Triple G. Canelo a 115-13 winner in their rematch. Not absurd by any stretch. I mean, it was a competitive fight.

I think Canello won. I was fine with it, 115-1-13. Maretti did score, Wiesfeld did not score their first fight, but Maretti scored their first fight 115-113 for Triple G. which probably makes him say, okay, well, he's given me a fair shake against Canello in the past, and I'm okay with him. But I don't know, man. You're all right with the two guys who just scored?

Not only did they all score Bivall, Canello 115, 113 for Bivol, all three of them gave each of the first four rounds to Canello. That was wild. I think it was two, two, two, I think, through four. Right, reasonable. Worst case scenario, 3-1, but if you have- No way to give them all four. look, there's just no way that he lost all four rounds, and they were in complete agreement on that.

So it's almost like... I don't know what to make of that when you have all four judges in complete agreement on four rounds that clearly should not have been scored that way. Like that to me is like... And I hate saying this because I've said many times, and I think you'd agree. I think Steve Weissfeld is one if not the best judge in all of boxing. He is, in my opinion, the gold standard. Dave Moretti's been around for a while, has been pretty consistent in terms of high level.

David Sutherland, less so much. much, but I think he's fine as a judge. It's just weird. Like, whenever Canelo-Alvarez gets in the ring, these judges seem to see something with what he's doing that his opponents are not. It's interesting, Chris, because I'm not casting any aspersions on anyone, because I know Steve Weissfeld

personally. Like, judges are... Jersey guys are, you know, through thick and thin together. You all eat, like, pizza at the local, whatever. Well, not as much pizza as you, apparently. Nobody does that. Like, the fact that you've eaten more than twice as much pizza since you've been here, since I've been here, is a no one would have bet on that, probably.

Absolutely, right? I've had three slices of pizza since I've been here. Busted you there. Yeah. But anyway, you know, so it's not, I understand from the outside looking in, people think it's corruption and people are greasing people's palms and, you know, paying people under the, that. It's not quite how that works. We're not naive, either of us, obviously.

We're very skeptical people in general because of what we do for a living. But I don't think that's what it, you know, I would like to know the actual answer. Is it just, because sometimes you could just be. seated on a different side of the ring as someone and have a different perspective of what's going on because you don't have the benefit of the best television angles or whatever you get your angle and if it's you don't see what's happening you don't see what's happening because the guy's back is to you or whatever the case might be but it's a very subjective science you know people prefer usually prefer aggression effective aggression anyway but canella just doesn't throw a lot of punches

like sometimes and you and i don't get it something you know yeah you know i you know i like So this happened at the AJ Usick fight, right? Who is it? Was it Don Trella, Glenn Feldman? Who was the judge that, one of the judges that scored it for Joshua? Glenn Feldman. Glenn Feldman, right? Who was a good judge?

Very good judge. I think he's very good judge. Somebody caught up to him. Somebody tracked him down after that fight. And asked him the question, I would love to see judges be more accountable and be available for questions, you know, after that. Just if you're going to score it a certain way in a high-profile situation where there's so much money on the line, there should be some transparency there, I think.

I agree with you, but the reason why judges don't speak, as you well know, Chris, is there are mandates from the commissions that they not speak. Right. Because they don't want to put guys in pressure. They're not used to dealing with reporters. Well, some commissions are hosting the referee out there, though. Like, Jersey will. Well, we saw how that went.

Didn't go well for the record. Okay. I mean, you're talking about the Gary Russell on the Gary Russell undercard. Yeah. And those were some of the most bizarre explanations I've ever heard. But like, I want that. I kind of like, if you are not competent enough to do this. It's great for the theater of boxing.

It's not great. for, you know, having faith in commission. The referee who you're speaking about was looking at the replay on a giga, a screen that's bigger than this room and was literally saying that what everyone else saw happen didn't happen. So you put that guy in a position where now people think he's a clown. Like, you know, now people don't take him, it was absurd what he was saying. Like, I couldn't believe he was, I was like, is this happening?

It's great TV. But that's why they don't want to put people in positions that they're not accustomed to being. You don't want a guy to say the wrong thing, or maybe, you know, if they feel like they're being accused of something, they might react in a negative way. And they just don't want that. How about this? How about this? Like, is the NBA, you can't talk to referees, right? You can't just walk up to ex-referee and ask a question. What you can do, though, is afterwards there is a pool reporter.

I think there's other sports as well. But you have one reporter designated to go into a referee's locker room and ask them about something. So I would like that. Like a controversial call of some sort or someone being ejected or something. Yeah, like what did you, you know, say for Glenn Feldman, for example, you walk. You go in there and you say a lot of people have the score wide the other way. What were you seeing? Just two, three questions.

Yeah. And let that be the end of it. I think grown men or women are able to handle that. Like, I'd like to believe they could handle that. And you would like to see accountability from people who were deciding people's careers. Yes, lives, money. The amounts of money people are making. And now, let's not ignore the fact that gambling has become such a factor in every professional sport, including boxing.

Like, I wouldn't bet. on boxing if I were a fan because you know there are too many variables that could a guy wins nine rounds and suddenly he loses the fight and you lose all this money it's crazy I want a lot of money when Paul Williams beat Erislandi Lara that night in Jersey

those judges were suspended right afterwards may he rest in peace that was a I remember Dan Gusson coming to ringside and it would being a fiasco at ringside but yeah I mean you would like to see more accountability that's a fair point Chris but I just think they just don't want to put guys in positions that they're not

accustomed to. But, you know, again, when people are paying their hard-earned money and, you know, for pay-per-view, whether they're gambling on the fight, paying tickets, there should be more accountability. I think that's definitely a fair way to look at it. All right. When it comes to questions, to go back to the original topic, biggest question I have is how does Golofkin handle the body attack? Because in the second fight against Canello, the numbers reflected, he went to the body and he was effective. Since then, Gallofkin has looked vulnerable to big body shots, whether it was Derevanchenko, or heard him in that fight with body shots. Marada, you alluded to early on.

I think it was the third round. He had Golofkin with a big shot to the body. Ganadi stepped back, took a deep breath, and continued on. But I had a chance to ask Golofkin and Jonathan Banks this week about concern about that. How do they adjust to that? And they were pretty dismissive of Ganadi's vulnerability there. Maybe they're just saying that to me. Maybe they have a plan to protect the midsection, do something.

differently to make sure you don't get beat up. But if they don't, I think that's a tactical mistake. I think Canello is going to zero in on that midsection. He's going to target it. He's going to throw bombs at it. And look, we don't, I think neither one of us believe Gannadi's getting stopped with a headshot. Like he's just too strong and got too good at chin.

But you land enough body shots on a guy that hasn't already weakened the midsection. That's going to be a problem for him. So that to me is the biggest question in the ring. How does Gennati hold up to those body attacks? You know, the old boxing adage is, Chris, no one likes it to the body. course and as you get over forgets. Sergio tells me that all the times. Like once you get hurt there, it never goes away.

Yeah, from a psychological standpoint also. So we better do something. I hope after eight or nine weeks in training camp, they devise some sort of strategy to prevent that from happening. Because as you said, that's the only path to Canello winning by stoppage, I think, because he's got a granite chin and we've seen him take some bombs in fights where you're like, holy, how is he walking through this? and he always has against pretty big punchers,

including Canello. So, yeah, I hope they have some strategy devised to do it because otherwise, I mean, it could be a real problem for him. You know, Banks said to me, he's like we don't see it as, I think he said, a risk factor. All right, well, it feels risky to me. It feels like that's where you're going to get hit. And if you're not protecting it, I mean,

you know, look, John. You can knock to a body. I can still hear the Matthew McLan body shot ringing in my ear at Foxwoods that time, what, eight, nine years ago. Right. But, look, Banks is a cerebral guy. I'm sure they've dotted all their eyes and crossed all their T's, and maybe they're just not going to tell us maybe exactly what the plan is.

How dare they not tell you? Media members when they ask them direct questions. How dare they not do that? I asked Sergio this week and I'll ask you the same question. Who needs this fight more? Who is this fight more important to? Canello, you would have to say, just in, although he won the second fight,

and he's the only one officially who has won. one of the fights. He's got more to lose. Because if Golovkin loses, well, he's supposed to. Canelo is at least a five-to-one favorite, according to most of the reputable sports books right now. Maybe that'll change a little bit. It'll fluctuate a little bit before the fight, but those are pretty wide odds for two guys who have been so completely competitive in their first two fights. So he's supposed to, he's 40. He's fighting at 168 pounds for the first time. A lot of people think he lost the Derevianchenko fights since the last time he fought Canello. There are a lot of of factors working against Triple G. So people, I think the public perception is that he's going

to lose this fight. So if he loses, he'll have made more than $20 million in a guarantee and, you know, gotten the third fight that he always wanted. The fight that he was promised when he signed with the zone, that it's finally happening three and a half years after he signed that contract. So he's getting what he wants. But Canello, if he loses this fight, he'll have lost to a 40-year-old guy who's fighting at 168 pounds for the fight. first time who probably lost the Dorevianchenko, two and a half, whatever it was, three years ago, two years ago, three, right? Yeah, three years ago. So he's got more, and then he'll have lost for the first time, he'll have lost back-to-back fights. He's never been in that position before. So he would

then go from being the consensus, pound-for-pound king of boxing to having lost back-to-back fights to Dmitri Bavall, who was around, I think he was a four-to-one favorite over Bivol too, which was clearly too wide. But then he will have lost back-to-back fights to Biv-Bavall. into Golovkin, who he was heavily favored to beat, where does he go from there? Because then no one wants to see him fight Bibol again, right? No, but he would honestly, if you had to make a comparison, he would kind of enter Anthony Joshua territory,

where it's like you're a big star, but you might have to rebuild a little bit. You might be talking about you taking a lesser fight before going into maybe a fourth fight with Gulloch. The only thing that I would say in comparing Canello to Joshua is accomplished a lot more. Oh, yeah. You know, Anthony Joshua was an enormous star.

saying he isn't but if you compare their resumes they're kind of incomprehend resumes i'm more like where they go after back-to-back losses like right no i understand and we'll get to this but if the joshua fury fight doesn't happen which i still don't believe um you'll probably see joshua fighting a lower level guy in december or january it's sort of like a a rebuilding stage of his career as he bounces back from those two losses i feel like you put it this way in kennel's next fight i wouldn't expect it to be a killer i wouldn't expect galofkin part four i wouldn't expect beville part two. I wouldn't expect one of the top guys at 168. I would expect something a little lower. You disagree? Well, I know he certainly, if he loses to Golovkin, that's not going to sit well with him. And he would do

everything in his power to try to get the fourth fight right away. I just think from a psychological standpoint, but Golovkin would suddenly be in the driver's seat for the first time. He's never had the leverage in this situation. And he might just pull a Marquez. We call it a Marquez. I'm not saying he's going to knock Nello out, obviously, but certainly not knock him unconscious, but he would finally have the power. And he might say, well, I'm not going to fight him again. I don't need to, I'll go fight because he said, look, what he said yesterday to us was that this is his last fight with the zone. Now, he signed a six-fight contract with the zone. This is only the fifth fight. He said emphatically yesterday, this is my last fight with his own. If that is true,

I believe that to be true as well. Okay. So if that's true, I could easily see him, if he were to win the fight, and he says, F this guy. I'm not. doing this again he can he can go eat that for the rest of his life that I beat him in the last fight drive canelo crazy would drive canello crazy correct so then I could see him dropping back down the middleweight and then going you know giving al haman a call say you want to make this charlo fight let's go make this charlo fight and then he you know he works to come up with a lot of money to make charlo can they would they would they would and I don't think charlo would do that next even if even if if galovkin won on Saturday night and wanted to do that next because

Charlo hasn't fought in a very long time, and it certainly doesn't seem based on what I was told that this Seleski fight is going to be rescheduled anytime soon, so he would have to get some kind of fight in between before that would happen. But the point is that Golovkin would have many more options, particularly because he owns, if you count the IBO, he owns three middleweight titles, and he could go fight Charlo in a big fight. Well, Andrade is not the middleweight champion, not that he would, they've made it clear they want, they don't want to. I think that ship is so. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry I mentioned the A word. PTSD. Whoa. The A word on this podcast. I don't get you a android rabbit hole. But there are options for him, as I guess what I'm saying. And he would be the fully unified super middleweight champion.

So if he were comfortable at that weight, well, he could fight a multitude of supermiddle weights. He could fight. He could call Al Heyman and go fight Caleb Plant. If Plant winds up beating Derell in his next fight, David Benavita. That's a much riskier fight, I think, for Golofkin, but that's certainly available to him. I agree that there's a lot at stake for Canelo, but I have a bit of a different take on Golofkin, because I've been reading a lot and hearing a lot this week about no matter what happens in this fight, Ganadi Golofkin is going to walk into the Hall of Fame on the first ballot.

I kind of sort of shrug a little bit at that, because, look, he's got a great record. he is undoubtedly one of the most entertaining fighters of this generation. But when I look at his resume, I see Daniel Jacobs, I see David Lemieux, I see Sergey Derevanchenko, I don't see a depth of quality wins. And I think that, to me, that is a variable when you start talking about fighters and their candidacy for the Hall of Fame. I just, I want to see three, four, five quality, high-level wins. Now, I will acknowledge readily that for six years, he chased all the top guys, longer really, because he chased Felix Stern before he came to the U.S.

He's been chasing the top guys forever. Sergio Martinez avoided him. Miguel Cotto avoided him. Canelo even, for a couple years longer than people wanted, didn't want to fight him. Or at least Oscar Delooy at that time, didn't want Canelo fighting Golofkin. But in the last three years, he has had. opportunities to burnish his resume. He could have fought Andrade. He could have fought Charlo. He could have fought Jaime Mungia, which would have been a reasonably high level win. He didn't. Look, it's a

business. He clearly made the right decision because he's going to get paid in excess of $20 million probably for this fight. But there's a consequence for that. And that's, you know, it gets taken into account that when Golofkin had the opportunity to fight all the big fights he was clamoring for early, He didn't do it. And that, to me, that is going to be a factor when Hall of Fame consideration comes around. So this is a hot take from Chris Mannix, that Gannady Golovkin is not a first ballot Hall of Fame? I'm not. Again, as you know, because the Hall of Fame is ridiculous.

This is not the Baseball Hall of Fame, by the way. No, it's not. It's the Hall of Fame where three guys get in every year no matter what. So, you know, if there's a year where there's no top guys, Moell Larry and Curley are getting in. Shout out, by the way, to Ivan Calder. I'm going to keep voting for you every year. until you get in. All 105 pounds.

I love Ivan Calderon. He was great back of the day. He's got to actually, not to go down to rabbit hole, but he's kind of the bar for me. Like, you've got to be better than Ivan Calderon to get into the Hall of Fame

on my ballot, guy that was for six years, like the best little man in all of boxing. So, but that to me is it, like, with the understanding that boxing Hall of Fame is goofy in that way,

like, do I look at Golofka as a first ballot Hall of Famer? I don't know. I don't see the quality wins on the resume. Well, here's what I would say. I think he's a first ballot Hall of Famer.

one because the standards are simply lower for the boxing Hall of Fame than they are, particularly for the baseball Hall of Fame, right? I mean, that's probably the most stringent. And would you not argue the best? Like, I think baseball is the best. Yeah. You've got to get 75% of the vote. I mean, it's inconsistent, you know, because of the steroids.

With some, right, right. With, obviously, but like, I like it. Every year you should have to get 75% of the vote. Yeah. Like, that's it. It's got to be a consensus that you get in. He does not officially have a win against a guy who was the, pound for pound king.

Now there is the... But he won. I think most people would agree that he won the first fight. The Derevianchenko... Now look, Derevianchenko has lost a lot of fights against top-level guys in the last couple of years,

but he's a top-level middleweight and that dog fight, to me, was the fight of the year in 2019. He did win the fight officially. Close, but another one where it's like... Right. You know, I think I had at 14-13 Dervincenko when it goes the other way.

It was a close fight. And look, I know people don't want to hear excuses and I'm not trying to make an excuse for Glovkin. Their contention is that he was sick the whole fight week. Maybe he might not even should have fought. I've heard that. Like Gabe Rosadoe, he was sick the whole of the week. Like I said, and people don't want to hear excuses.

Fighters go into fights injured all the time and have many things going on in their heads that they never tell people about, you know, family problems or whatever. So I understand that. But the Reverend Chanko win, which is officially a win, is a good win, in my opinion. You know, two very close back and forth fights with an elite, elite level.

fighter who became the pound for pound king. He had some version of a middleweight title for a very long time. So for whatever it's worth, I think he's a first ballot Hall of Famer. But would it, if he beats Canello convincingly on Saturday? Of course. And he becomes undisputed champion at 168, too. And of course, that would strengthen his legacy. There's no denying that.

But you do make a good point about having, because I was flat out told, that his people told his people told his own, we're not fighting Demetrius Andrei. Stop asking us about it. That is actually almost close to verbatim, I believe, if I'm not mistaken. And that's unfortunate for Andrade because he's never really gotten the type of opportunities that we would have liked to have seen him receive over the last few years. But so, yeah, so he didn't fight him.

I'm not going to say that him not fighting Charlo is his fault necessarily. I mean, you know? No, it's not. Although, Charlo would have been the one where if you were going to get kind of a, cross-promotional deal done, I feel like Heyman would have been more open to that to get him in with Golofkin, to get that king-making opportunity.

I feel like that was doable. And look, Mungia was doable. That, to one, is the most surprising, because Mungia, like, Mungia is beatable. He's really good. When is Mungia going to fight somebody for God's sake? That's another conversation entirely. He's going to go forever fighting kind of the second-tier guys.

But I just, you know, I guess in a way, I would never hold the first like six, seven years of Golofkin's U.S. career against him because he tried. Tom Lofa tried. They were HBO tried. They were doing everything they can to get the top guys in the ring with him. All of them passed. But I have to, I kind of believe the last few years when he was making business decisions have to be taken into account. Like he all the fights he was begging for, they were there. You know, Charlo, Andrade, Mungia, I don't know who else is out there. he chose not to do him. He could have gotten out of the Zaremeta mandatory by fighting Andrade if you wanted to. You could do a unification fight.

That would have been makeable. You know what? It's interesting, Chris, because I think what he was really doing there, and he obviously has never said this to me. But I think what he was doing there was he was guaranteed a certain amount of money for the Zeramatta fight, which he did not get. It was renegotiated. And he still got a lot of money for fighting Camille Zeramatta in front of no one because it was in the heart of the pandemic and everything. And he was as mandatory. But I think he was in that case, he was trying to prove a point to DeZone.

because he wasn't getting, he thought he would have gotten the Canelo fight at that point, which was what he was promised when he signed this contract with the Zone. So I think there was a little back and forth there between them, where he demanded the Zerometa fight because he felt like he wasn't being treated fairly with Canelo. Now, that is not necessarily DeZone's fault. They were told something by Golden Boy that was not true. So they were operating under the premise that they could deliver Canello and that they would make this fight,

which obviously didn't happen, and then he separated from Golden Boy and all the things that we know have happened. And just to clear one thing up, and I'm pretty sure you know this as well. If the pandemic had not happened, they were going to fight in the fall of 2020. Like that was going to happen.

The way it was set up was, Golofkin was going to fight Zarameda in March. Canelo was going to fight, I believe, Saunders in May, and the two were going to meet in September. As far as I understand, that was all but agreed to there. come off his issues with Golofkin at that time and he was going to fight him back then.

So, you know, for whatever it's worth, that fight was going to happen in September of 2020. Yeah, and there was a point, like I said, that Golovkin was the one, so I'm not going to fight Canello. So then people are saying, well, you want the fight or you don't. But I do think there was something internally going on between him and the zone, and that's more what that was about, than him not actually wanting to fight Canello, because of course he wants to fight Canello. He wants to avenge his only loss and make more money. He's clearly going to make more money on Saturday Ray Knight than he made fighting any of the other guys. He's fought since he fought Canello the last time.

No question. Smart business decision. But, you know, when given the opportunity to fight these top guys, he chose not to. And I just, I just, that counts for me as a variable in all this. Last thing on Golofkin, what do you make of kind of this sort of heel turn he's made in recent years? He's kind of a little more surly. You know, still affable at times, but like, you know, it just feels like he's a little bit

of a different guy in the last couple of years. He's surly toward Canello. Yeah. I don't sense that he's really surly. toward other people. Like, well, he was kind of surly toward Cappertry yesterday. Sorry, Mike. But beyond that, I mean, I don't really see him.

It's interesting in that if Canello continues to say the reason that he doesn't like an Addy Golovkin more than anything is because he thinks he's a phony, that he portrays this public persona of being this nice guy and, you know, smiling all the time and, you know, Mexican style and what all the things that he's been parroting for the last, you know, 10 or 12 years or whatever it is. So he thinks he's a phony and that he's not really a good guy. I don't know. I mean, I don't spend a lot of time around Ganadi Golovkin other than fight weeks and everything.

I have no reason to believe he's a bad guy per se. But what he's, but he's promoting the fights too, right? It's generating. He's still sticking Canello with the positive drug test stuff. Like he shows up a grand arrival said, I want a clean sport. In fairness, why shouldn't he? Because the bottom line is once you have that stain on your record, it doesn't go away.

And some people are willing to forget it, and some people aren't. And if I'm risking my life against this guy three times, I'm not forgetting it. And the other thing is, he knows it gets under his skin. So he's going to continue to do it because he knows he's pissing him off.

So if you know you can get a rise out of someone like that and you intensely dislike that person, why wouldn't you do it? In fairness to Golovkin, like he was, whatever the excuse is, Mexican street meat, whatever they've come up with. The bottom line is he failed two drug tests

before he was supposed to fight Gannady Golozkin the second time. That's indisputable. And if I'm Gennady Gullochin, I'm not letting that go. And he's most certainly not at this point. And that's certainly fair play by him. All right, a couple of the things I want to hit you with before we go. ESPN on Thursday, reporting that Terence Crawford, Errol Spence, materially agreed to terms on a deal.

this has been something that has been reported on for over a month now at this point. They're getting closer, they're getting closer, getting closer. Should we get excited at this point for November 19th, Spence against Crawford? Do you believe we're at that proverbial five-yard line? I think they're going to fight November 19th. I've thought that all along. I just think that there's too much money at stake for both guys. The alternatives for Crawford are not great.

the alternatives for Spence are not what are going to be palatable for the public but they're better than what Crawford's options are Thurman being the Right, Thurman's a known fighter and people have wanted to see them fight It would have been a good promotion

Yeah, and people have wanted to see them fight for a number of years although Thurman's deteriorated a little bit So he has more options than Crawford So I just always kind of thought that Crawford eventually is just going to Whatever, whenever they get to the point where it's like either now or never he's going to accept the deal just because even if he has to take less of a percentage or take less of a guarantee or whatever you know all the things that have been hanging up the deal you know the the rematch percentages all of that stuff right like he would eventually just accept what he had to accept one because he thinks he's going to beat errol spence of course uh two because he's going to make less than a third to fight anyone else and then who was he fighting all the rest are virgil or t's well that's the thing all the rest of the welterweights

relevant welter rates for the most part are with PBC. Now, Boots Ennis is not with PBC, but Terrence Crawford is not going to fight Boots Ennis if he's not going to fight Earl Spence Jr. So the alternative probably is Virgil Ortiz, who is mandatory. That's a tough fight. I'm not saying Crawford will... For a lot less money, which is the key. Crawford, in my opinion, if he fought Virgil Ortiz tomorrow, he would win. But it's a dangerous fight and for a lot less money.

So eventually he's just going to have... He doesn't like the fact and doesn't trust the fact. that this is a PBC event, basically, and he's not a PBC guy. He came from top rank, and now he's a free agent. He's mistrustful of a lot of things, and that's been part of the negotiations as well, like worrying about all the things, every little detail about fight week, making sure everything's on point because he's just mistrustful. I don't know if you think someone's going to poison his water or what exactly,

but there's a lot of things going on behind the scenes that have been stumbling. He's not, he's not Al Heyman's guy. All right has been with Hayman from the very beginning. And I'm not saying Al Hamon's going to do anything. I get what he's doing. But his hesitation is understandable because he's not one of their guys. They're going to cater to Spence more than they're going to cater to him. So he wants to be compensated financially for that.

But I do think eventually they're going to get to the finish line here. It's my understanding that they're not there yet, exactly, but that they will get there. The fight is going to happen November 19th, which is kind of what I thought all along. Because some people, you know, on Twitter and all, you know, not reporters necessarily, but just people, well, it's too late for the, why is it too late? It's September 15th. Plenty of time to promote it. You've got more than two months.

And you don't need to promote it all that much. And the days, as you know, the days of like multi-city press stores are gone. You only do that. Right. It happens infrequently. You don't even need to do them necessarily. They have time to train for two full months for the fight. And I would have to believe that both of them are in some semblance of training now,

thinking that the fight is going to happen. So that's not really an issue. They're going to do one press conference. They're not going to do a multi-sit, like you just said, though those days are long gone. So there's no real, like if they announced the fight 10 days from now, are people not going to buy the fight because it wasn't announced until September 30th or whatever? You don't need a three-month walk-ups.

I mean, if it was six weeks, I'd say, all right, maybe, but it's 12 at this point or whatever it is. There's more than enough time. I wonder what network it winds up on. I mean, Showtime and Fox are still affiliated at PPC. When this all was kind of breaking down, Keith, one thing that popped into my mind was like, I wonder if they'd push it to, like, February, because Fox has a Super Bowl this year, And if they did it with Fox, you could use that platform to promote it, but it does sound like the 19th is what they're targeting.

In terms of which network winds up distributing it, I would be surprised if it weren't Showtime just because all of the BBC inventory has been shifted to Showtime. Fox is for all intents and purposes out of boxing except doing the occasional pay-per-view, and this isn't just any old pay-per-view. This is the non-heavyweight pay-per-view in boxing. I thought that, too, but, like Spence, I think all of his pay-per-views have been Fox. No, the Ugas fight with Showtime.

Sorry, but the Pre-Pretelyte. is Danny Garcia was Fox was Fox. Was Fox. Right. But like if you don't, unless Al Heyman is trying, now look, you're going to go where you get the better deal. I understand that. At the same time, you know, he has a much more profitable, better working relationship with Showtime now than he has with Fox. It looks like Fox is getting out of boxing.

It looks like they're interested in doing the occasional pay-per-view. That shouldn't be a pay-per-view like Luis Ortiz. Right. It doesn't cost them much. They're not committing any money to boxing. So unless he's trying to. Unless Haman were trying to, not trying to get into the head of Al Haman,

because, you know, he's... Now, that would be a good story. Right, no, but I'm saying, I mean, he knows how to move chess pieces and all and does all his things behind closed doors. But unless he's trying to salvage this relationship with Fox, which, to my understanding, is pretty much unsalvageable in that they're not going to do another multi-fight contract with PBC,

then I don't understand why it wouldn't be on Showtime, because I think Showtime with its reach with CBS and everything can offer most of what Fox, if not all of what Fox is providing from a promotional standpoint, because look what they did with the Caleb Plant fight with Canello, right? They plastered it all over college football and NFL coverage. High number buys, yeah. And somewhere in a neighborhood of 800,000 buys. And who, what mainstream sports fan knows, which mainstream sports fan knows who Caleb Plant is?

I mean, come on. you know so they'll do i do i do think there's a you know a lower ceiling than 800 000 for as as big of a fight as it is in boxing circles there is a lower ceiling than 800 000 for uh for spencer crawford i agree with that uh that much i did read do you read the story this week about showtime potentially getting lumped in with paramount i found that fascinating this is not this is full disclosure of paramount employee all that you know so but uh nonsense is it just going to Complete nonsense. Wall Street Journal wrote that.

Well, you know, the thing is, I think they got tripped up on, there were some long-range talks about, they're doing deals with particular providers, like their deal is up and everything. And there was something just kind of mentioned in passing that, you know, eventually sometime down the road, maybe something like that could happen. Like, it's nothing concrete.

Now, look, I'm no high-level paramount executive by any stretch. I'm not trying to make it like I'm in on these decisions or anything. obviously I'm a boxing writer for God's sake. No one cares what I think, probably. But if Showtime has roughly 30 million subscribers, why would you disband it? It makes no sense. Correct.

They also produce, the way it was explained to me, somewhere in the neighborhood of $2 billion in profits for the company every year. Why would you get rid of that? It's insane. Cordcutters, baby. Well, I mean, but what? I would understand it if in, this is not a television, we're not television insiders now. We are not.

The point is if they at some point made Showtime and Paramount Plus the stream, the same streaming service, you know, if they're available for one price, I could see that happening eventually, but now you're still getting two subscriptions and bundling it into one and you're still making more money, so I don't really know why you would get rid of it. And Showtime's a pretty long established brand. And they've been in boxing for 35, 37 years or whatever. So not that boxing is the highest priority in Paramount Global. But I've done it well for many years.

So, yeah, that didn't make a lot of sense to me at the time, why they would do that. The way it was explained to me by people who know much more from internally in the company, nonsense. Like, it's just dead wrong. All right. On that note, speaking of nonsense, Eddie Hearn is here this week. and he's getting asked a lot about Tyson Fury versus Anthony Joshua. So Anthony Joshua's and Eddie Hearn's treatment of the Fury, quote, offer, it reminds me a lot for people that watch Seinfeld of when George Costanza told Susan Ross's parents he had a house in the Hamptons,

and they went to go visit him, right? So bear with me here, bear with me. So they says, I got a house in there and said, we'll go. And he says, and he starts telling all these lots, as he's driving to the Hamptons. And he parks the car and says, we've got to walk this far. It's just, it feels like Eddie and AJ are trying to call the bluff

of Tyson Fury and Frank Warren. Like, it's, it can't be as simple as a fight like this getting done for 60, 40. It can't. I mean,

we both remember, we both covered how complicated the deal that was going to be in the Middle East was for Joshua versus Fury. I mean, Eddie Hearn agonized over that deal.

I just can't believe it's as simple as Principally Stadium in Cardiff, December 3rd, 60-40 split on the part of Tyson Fury with the winner, having the option of reversing it and getting a different split. I just don't believe it. I don't know how you feel about this, but I just don't believe that that fight is going to happen. Well, first, as a huge Seinfeld fan, love the Costanza reference. I've got two salariums.

Yeah, exactly. Do you want to turn it up a notch, baby? All right, here we go. Exactly. It seems like entirely too complicated of a deal to put together. a relatively short amount of time December 3rd is not that far away I don't see it

and I do agree with you in some sense they're calling their bluff okay okay yeah all right well and if you're Joshua why would you say no to it I mean you're in a you've lost back to back fights decisively to the other I kind of feel the different way like it's like Joshua is now like I don't know if he's going to stick with Robert

Garcia stick with Agent Fernandez to go a different direction but it feels like Joshua needs to not rebuild over the course of multiple years but how about you take a nice easy, whatever in December. How about you fight Dillion White in the first quarter of next year? And then I know Tyson Fury is the equivalent of boxing ADD, so let him fight like Derek Chasora in December if he wants to get a payday.

And then face Poussing. I'm going to stop you on that because Derek Chasora, for beating Kubra Pula, better not get a title shot. I'm going to have to put my foot down on that one. Not that anyone's listening to me exactly. Derek Chisora, Hater. War Chasura. Look, God bless Derek Chasora.

He's entertaining and he's some, but let's... Great press conference. It's great lead up to that fight. Yeah, I'm going to flip some tables and do some crazy stuff. But at the same time, let's everyone calm down. He beat Kubra-Pulev, who's not good, and is 40-plus years old. I don't know how that warrants getting a shot at the, you know, one of the two heavyweight champions. Anyway.

Won a lot of money in that fight, too. Six to one by decision. Cash right there. Nailed it. Wow. It's an NBA Summer League watching that with a couple of guys. When I had a press row, that was a blast. You're just trying to promote your gambling picks on here is what you're doing.

I'm hot, baby. I'm hot. But I don't see the fight coming together on that short of time. There's too many complications. There's too, you know, I understand what you're saying about Joshua, but I've been hearing about Joshua, you know, fine-tuning things, rebuilding, blah, blah, since he got knocked out by Andy Ruiz. Maybe he just is what he is.

You could bring in trainers from all over the world. He's just going to fight the way that he fights. And maybe he realizes that to some extent. You know, maybe he's like, well, I can make an enormous amount of money for what would, even though he's lost back-to-back fights to Ussick, it would still be the biggest fight in British boxing history by a long shot, right? By a country mile, right? So why wouldn't he do it? You know, he's lost back-to-back fights. Maybe he doesn't want to, and maybe if you're Joshua, you've made so much money, you feel like, do I really want to go to training camp and get motivated?

Can I get motivated for fighting, whatever guys, you know, whoever it might be, Otto Valene or. whoever, and he's not going to fight Southpaw probably, but... I'm not looking forward to the next Ottawaian press release. I'm not disparaging Otto. No, I'm not, but he's a good fighter. My inbox clicks like yours, like with automobile challenges. Shout out to his PR people. I keep sending those releases out.

But my point is, like, a non-champion, a guy who's not a star, how is he going to get up for those kinds of fights? So maybe he just feels like he feels he can beat Fury. He's not looking at it like he's going to go in there and lose. I think Fury beats Joshua, but it's an enormous event. And maybe he just doesn't want to waste time taking, you know, B and C level opponents because he won't be able to get up for them. And maybe he doesn't want to fight that much longer either.

I mean, he's 32 now, right? Yeah, 32, he's going to be 33 soon, maybe something. But he's getting a little older and he's made so much money. He doesn't have to fight anymore. Yeah. So maybe, you know, from that perspective, maybe he would want to do it. He's got that massive new DeZone deal that is encompassing multiple fights at least that's going to pay him a lot of money.

Yeah. Well, that was a good business. He still I'll tell you this And I don't mean for him For him it was Well I mean he still does pay-per-view buys I'll give him that

Like he'll still He could fight anybody And still draw a crowd He still I would argue He's as popular as Fury In the UK He is no yeah And like you said about Canello

Canello before he's like Joshua In that sense Like if he were to lose to Golovkin on Saturday He's still a superstar Yeah He still has an entire country behind him And a lot of people in the US So yeah

There's no doubt about that But there's to see what he decides To do if that fight comes together But more than anything else I think we both agree It's just, it feels like it's, it's happening too quickly. Like, I'd love to believe that you could put together a fight of that magnitude as quickly as it seems to be coming together. I just don't believe that's possible.

Also, Chris, you know, Tyson Fury is very entertaining. He's been great for boxing in many ways. But he goes on there every day and says something different. So, like, there's some days he's not fighting anymore. He's challenging Derek Esore. He's challenging Francis Degano. He's retiring. He's traveling to Iceland to challenge the mountain.

Every week, it's something else, right? Yes. If he fights the mountain, I'll go to that. I'm all in for Tyson Pyriris v. The Mountain. Keith, appreciate your time. My pleasure, man. I'm going to go get more pizza and next slice is on me. There you go. When we come back, this week's picks brought to you by Fandul.

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All right. Time now for this week's picks brought to you by our friends. over at Fandul. If you're not betting with Fandul, you are doing it incorrectly. We are here in Las Vegas for the big one. Canelo Alvarez, Ganadi Gilofkin, trilogy completing, super middleweight championship, undisputed status on the line. This is as big as it gets in boxing right now. And right now, Canelo Alvarez is a big favorite. Minus 550, according to Fandul, Gaddae Golovkin plus 410. I believe Alvarez wins. I know he's coming off a loss to Dimitri Beavle,

but talking to Canelo this week, it feels like he was more focused for this training camp than he was for Bevo, wasn't playing as much golf over the last few months, and he's really locked in on getting a clear win against his longtime rival. So take Canelo Alvarez to win this fight at minus 550, load up on it.

He's going to win, I believe it. Now, how he wins. This week can make a little bit of money. Alvarez by decision is minus 110. That's the bet that I like. A lot of people are saying, Canelo Alvarez is going to go for a knockout. It'll be the first guy to stop Ganadi Golofkin.

And maybe he will be. But Ganadi Golofkin, even at age 40, has a granite chin and has, it's a cliche, but has that heart of a champion. I just don't believe that Golofgan is going to get stopped in what could be his final significant fight. So I'm taking Canello to win, and I'm taking him to win by points.

I think this fight is a little more clear on the scorecards than the previous two fights have been. So Canello to win, Canello to win by points. Those are my picks brought to you by Fandul. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Keith Ideck for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcast.

And I will see you Saturday night after the fight between Canello and Triple G for a special Bonus podcast. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot,

or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith Rule of Two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the eye, Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.