The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Catastrophe for Conor Benn

Episode Date: October 7, 2022

Joining Mannix this week are DAZN broadcaster Ade Oladipo and former junior middleweight champion Sergio Mora. Mannix, Oladipo and Mora discuss Conor Benn flunking a drug test, what it means for Benn, if the promoters were right to call of the fight and more; later, Chris Algieri, who was knocked out by Benn last year, discusses how he felt when he heard the news; finally, Devin Haney on what should happen to Benn plus how he is preparing for his rematch with George Kambosos Jr. #Volume #Colincowherd #Herd See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix. And we are back. Boxing with Chris Mannix, part of the Volume Sports Podcast Network. This is not an emergency podcast, but it kind of feels like an emergency podcast. That's because the boxing landscape shifted on Wednesday of this week. Before Wednesday, the biggest storyline in boxing was Connor Ben versus Chris Eubank Jr.

A family feud taken to the next generation. Two rivals facing off with history behind them. You've got the son of Nigel Ben, the son of Chris Eubank Jr. Two fighters that fought two excellent fights in the early 1990s. They were set to square off on Saturday as that rivalry passed on. to another generation. It was supposed to be a huge event. O2 Arena in London was sold out.

Eddie Hearn, the promoter, was talking about the fight doing over a million paper viewbys. Everyone was excited about it. We were going to talk about it, break it down from every angle. And then, on Wednesday, everything changed. Connor Ben, he tested positive for clomaphene, which is a banned substance known

to increase testosterone levels in men. On Thursday, you had the British Boxing Board of Control announcing that they would not sanction this fight, that they would in fact prohibit this fight from happening. And then late on Thursday, you had the news that this fight was going to be postponed. So now it is a totally different story. It is all about Connor Ben, what happened and the future of Connor Ben. So I want to bring in a couple of guys that I'm sure will have unique percentage. perspectives on this. Adela Depot is a long-time broadcaster, part of the DeZone broadcast team

over in the UK as well. He's had his boots on the ground all week long. I've been covering this event and the subsequent fallout backwards and forwards. He joins me. Sergio Amora, forward junior middleweight champion, DeZone broadcaster, good friend of the podcast. He is here as well. And Adi, I want to start with you. You've been there all week long. You've watched this whole fiasco unfold over the last couple of days. Take us inside what's been going on over in the UK this week. It's been crazy. It really has been.

The mood has changed. It started as surprise. If I'm honest with you, just because the buildup for the last month has been fantastic, right? It's really captured the public's imagination. I think as a sport boxing always seems to struggle again. I guess in America, you know, American football and basketball and baseball and over here, it struggles to compete against football, soccer. So when it does compete, you jump on the bandwagon

and a lot of people have jumped on the bandwagon just because of obviously the name and you guys will understand the history between the fathers and everyone's been really excited. So it started as a surprise like, what? This must be a joke to anger, like how has this happened until I guess where we are today, which is just disappointment, like disappointment that the fight's now off, which I think is right. I guess we'll touch on that, but also disappointment for the undercard fighters, and Sergio will understand this, guys that are not going to get paid, guys and girls, sorry, that are not going to get paid, that have spent thousands on camps. And I guess contractually, and I spoke to a few of them, if they don't weigh in, they don't get paid. These are,

these are guys and girls that don't have big sponsors that sort of live paycheck to paycheck, when it comes to boxing and they're extremely upset. I spoke to PrisieuBeng's promoter, Kelly Sowland, today, and he was as angry as you can be, if I'm honest of you, just because this fight generates a lot of money for them. Not only does it generate a lot of money, it generates a lot of interest, and that's what they're trying to do with Chris Eugent Jr.

So everyone's upset. There's a number of different broadcasters who've, you know, sort of committed to the fight, and they're very upset. And again, everyone's just, angry here, Chris, because this is the fight we were looking forward to. In terms of sort of the magnitude of it, it sold out the O2 Arena, which is the 20,000 seat to arena here in minutes, gone, tickets gone, big name superstars from the Water Event Entertainment were going to be ringside. This was it. This was DeZone's first pay-per-view event in the UK with Matrim. Obviously,

they've done the KSI one, but with Matrim. So everything was all systems go. And for it to be pulled two days before that is just a disoomelior. appointment for everyone. Sergio, what was your reaction to Connor Ben's positive test? It was terrible. I was disappointed because I think the world of Connor Ben, we talk about you know, how great of a star, you know, he's going to be, the potential he has. His recent knockout victories, every performance is getting better and better and better. And he has the looks and he has the ability. He has the charisma, which is something you can't teach.

and he just looks good on camera and he looks good knocking guys out, but this is just a bad look on him and his reputation because you can't just dust this off. The thing about cheating is, you know, it's always going to be that scarlet letter. It's always going to be branded. Your name's always going to be attached to it. No matter how great you become from here on,

there's always going to be critics that say, yeah, but he tested, you know, positive for so-and-so in 2022. too. There's always going to be a suspicion. So just like when any criminal does anything wrong, there's always going to have that record. It's always going to be on his record. It's always going to have that blemish. And sadly to say, no matter where Connor Ben goes from here, whether he donates money, whether he comes back and does Vada testing for all his tests and apologizes to the fan, this is all he can do. But he's still going to have that stigma of, man, you cheated. He cheated us on a big night where it should have been historic and we just didn't get it. And the closer it gets

to the fight, like Adi was talking about, the worst it hurts. I've been there before. I have two championship fights canceled the week of the fight and it tears you up, Nanix. I can't even imagine what the undercard fighters are doing, a feeling as well, especially if they have to travel abroad. It's a disaster for everybody, all because of a lie, all because a fighter decided to take a shortcut and in boxing there was no fucking shortcuts man i can cuss here so i'm pissed off odie i want to unpack something with you because this was a positive test that was reported in the daily mail that came out on wednesday over in the uk but this was not a test that was reported in real time it didn't happen this week it happened according to callie saurlin

the co-promoter of this event in late August or early September. And after it happened, the two sides were notified by VADA, which is required to notify both sides when there is a positive test. So it strikes me that if the Daily Mail doesn't report this, that this fight would be happening on Saturday. Because both sides were told about the... the test. Both sides discussed it. They elected to move forward with it. Chris Eubank Jr. said he would continue on with the fight. It just seems like if the Daily Mail doesn't report this story,

then the fight happens and maybe we never find out about the positive test of Connor Ben. Is that how you interpret this? Yeah, absolutely. And look, I mean, for someone that sort of works on the broadcast, I feel like my position, it's been very difficult in the last couple of days because, look, obviously we all work for the zone. I report on the fights for match room. And I've been in a difficult position where I'm like, one second, okay, let's understand this and unpack it. Chris Eubank's senior,

Connor's, sorry, Chris Eubank's dad has been sort of away from this event. And every time I was spoke to, a Chris Eubate Jr, I've said like, you know, where's your father? What's going on? Because Nigel Ben has been with Connor Ben in camp. He's like, well, you know, my dad is not really wanted to get involved in a couple of days ago.

Chris Emanx Senior spoke to a former fighter called Spencer Fearing that works for another broadcaster and he said boycott the event and I was like, what's going on? Like boycott the event and I initially thought he was talking about the weight cut. I was like, okay, look, you know, I get it. The weight cut's a tough cut, but come on, let's calm down a bit. He clearly knew about this from a month ago

and he was clearly not wanting to be a part of what he called a circus act and he's not been wanting to be a part of it for a month. For whatever reason, he couldn't explain why, whether that be an NDA or whatever, but it was obviously about this. So they've clearly known about this. And I think that's what has really angered a lot of people. I mean, they've gone on TV to try and promote it.

They've done a red carpet event. Whilst they've been doing all this, behind the scenes, there's been a failed drug test. And I think, Eddie's one of the greatest speakers in the world. but I think Eddie, Kelly from Wasserman boxing, Connor and Chris are going to have to answer a lot of tough questions

now that we know about this in the next couple of days because I think personally that's, and so, you know, now I know that we're allowed to swear. I think that's a fucking disgrace. I think it's a disgrace that Varda have flagged someone and everyone's just tried to sweep this under the carpet. And I think, look, boxing, and look, we all cover the sport. It's, you know, we always try to defend the sport.

But this is indefensible. Someone has popped for something and you guys just tried to continue an event and I get it. It's a big money event and everyone wants to get paid. But to continue like nothing has happened. And for the Daily Mail paper to come and report it, if it didn't, if the Daily Mail didn't report this,

we would have had a fight on Saturday and no one would have known that a fighter have tested positive for something that's on the bad list. Sergio, this is not the first time. that a promoter has tried to plow ahead with an event after a positive test. I was in New York back in 2012 when Danny Garcia fought Eric Morales after Morales tested positive for a banned substance. More recently, we had Oscar Valdez's title defense. That went ahead against ropes and can say so after Valdez tested positive for a band sub.

So this happens. But as a fighter, do you have a problem with a promoter kind of pushing ahead with an event like this? Because what Connor Ben took is a PED. It is a performance enhancer. This drug for men is a testosterone booster. For women, it is a fertility drug. For men, it has no medical application. Let me repeat that.

It has no medical application. It is a testosterone booster. that bodybuilders have used in the past, that some MMA stars have used in the past. So he was taking something to give him an extra benefit going into this fight. So as a fighter, how do you feel about a promoter trying to go forward with an event like this after a positive test? Well, it's a slippery slope here, Mannix, because look, I can only speak as a fighter. I can tell you how a fighter feels. Now you're talking about, you know, these are different shoots to feel.

I don't know how a promoter is supposed to feel. He, his job is to the soul is how much do you feel? I'm going to get to that. A promoter, you got to understand, you know, he needs to do whatever it takes to save the show. You know, they have their own, you know, struggles and they have their own morals, their own scruples, but they got to put on a show. And they're known to have bad reputations. Like, Dog King had a bad reputation for a long time.

Bob Aram, everyone has a lot of bad things to say about a lot of promoters, but they have a job to do and that's put on the show no matter what, as long as it all clears with the commission. So I get what they're doing. As a fighter,

I could tell you right now, if I was the opponent, if all Chris Eubanks, the opponent, I would still want to fight. I didn't want to throw away a camp and all the money I spent in the camp with a sparring partners

all the time that I sacrifice with my family, getting down to a weight that I'm not comfortable in. All these things aren't going to go out the window just because of a failed drug test. I would have said, fuck it, bring it on.

Let's go. It would have been similar to like when Osce de La Jolla Hoya fought Fernando Vargas. Nandovaluarez popped positive. And Oscar de La Jolla, his poetic justice, beat the shit out of him. Not only did he beat the hell out of a drug user and a cheat, but he beat the hell out of him knowing that he was all ripped up.

We never seen Fernando Vargas that rip. He looked like Hunter Men. He looks on his Instagram videos. But as a fighter, I can tell you it all comes down to what type of person you're dealing with. If it would have been me, I would have said, I don't care, man. Let's go. Just give me 20% of your purse.

Let's get it on. Somehow, some way, let the show go on because, you know, it's still a big fight. A lot of people are going to be disappointed. Yes, I'm bending my morals, but I'm still going to get the chance to kick the shit out of this cheater. So, you know, it could be poetic justice and I can still get paid. I get that perspective. I respect that perspective. As a fighter, you want to get paid for the work you put in.

you do two months of a hard camp. Of course, you want to find a way to make the fight happens. You can get that money into your pocket. But, Aday, a promoter's got to be more responsible, doesn't he? A promoter has to be looking out for the health of these fighters. I mean, Connor Ben isn't just beating guys. He's beating guys viciously. The Chris Algerie knockout.

The Chris Van Hearden knockout. Can you imagine if this fight went forward and, Connor Ben badly hurt Chris Eubank, like did something to him that had a long-term effect. And then it was reported after the fact that they knew that Connor Ben had tested positive for a banned substance. That's the kind of thing that people could go to jail for. It's that serious. So promoters, like, it just feels like a big risk for them to take.

I know there's a lot of money on the line. I know there's a lot at stake, but when you have a guy that test positive for something like this, it just feels like too big a risk to move forward with an event. Yeah, it is. And this is why it needs to be

out of the hands of the promoters and the fighters, because the promoters, as Sergio said, they're in it for, and look, some might say rightly so, to make as much money as possible for, A, the broadcasters, themselves and the fighters. For the fighters, like Sergio said,

you've had a, in Chris Euban's case, a two-month camp, you want to get paid you know I mean we're hearing a fee of around maybe three and a half million pounds for Christyubate Jr. I want that money I want that money I signed on the dotted line

pay me because I've done nothing I could do this is where the the governing body so the British Boxing Board of Control need to take sort of a step in and say okay look we have found that there was an adverse finding we're calling this off so we're not leaving it to the hands of Eddie Hearn, Matrim, dezone Wasserman boxing the fighters

we're doing it as the governing body and we're saying no and they didn't. Obviously they have subsequently, this is only a couple of days ago but they would have known about that adverse finding when Wasserman and Matrim found out which we're hearing now is about a month ago they should have been the ones that

kind of put their foot forward and said, okay look, the fight's off because you're right, the promoters aren't going to do it and I, in a horrible world I understand why and the fighters aren't going to do it The fighters just want to fight. I mean, we've, you know, Sergio spoke about the situation with Vargas and Oscar de la Hoya.

You also remember the, the Antonio Margarito, Shane Mosy thing when they found him to have plastered Paris in his hands, but it still went ahead because fighters want to fight. So British boxing border control needed to step in and just handle this situation better, and they didn't. It was, they handed it awfully. And they need to be kind of held up in court as well, you like because the way in which they've dealt with this situation the last sort of month now

has been ridiculous. Adi, I want to follow up on something. You mentioned that Connor Ben is going to have to answer some tough questions over the next few weeks. The toughest, or at least the most significant one, is how this substance got into his system. What I found interesting this week is that you did not hear an explanation from either Eddie Hearn or Connor Ben. And that's interesting because, again, this was a test result that they have known about for several weeks now. And you would think that over the course of a few weeks, they would have tried to find out what it was or at least have come up with something that might be believable in the event something like this happened, but you didn't get that. And Conner Ben's

going to have to explain it because this is a serious substance. To my knowledge, and I admit, I'm not a nutritionist or a doctor, whatever, but my internet research and what I'm reading from other experts suggest that this is the kind of substance that only gets into your system in some kind of pill form. So the usual excuses, the tainted meat, the tainted herbal tea, the lace supplement, all the things that you often hear from fighters who test positive for banned substance, it's going to be tough to sell that if you're Connor Ben. And that's going to be something he's going to have to sell to the public.

If he's going to restore his reputation, he's going to have to come up with something believable, isn't he? Yeah, and you know, you know, what's scary is that you mentioned a few sort of statements he could throw out there. He's not used any of those. And I'm like, well, and I said this. I'm a, I'm a big fan of Conner Ben. I think Sergio Moore mentioned at the top. Like, I'm a big fan of his dad.

And just almost because of that, I'm a big fan of Conner Ben. I've had him here in my studio. I've spoke to him sort of outside of boxing on numerous occasions. And it's been difficult for me. But I've said Conner Ben needs to come out and say something, not a written statement, which is obviously written by a lawyer. or someone of, he needs to come out and say how that got into his system. We need to, whether or not we believe it or understand it, he needs to do it. The idea of just going home, shutting the door and closing the curtains isn't going to work here

because a lot of people have spent a lot of money, not just buying tickets, what you're going to get a refund for, but traveling abroad to watch this fight. I know people that have booked hotels, they're not getting that money back. There's fans of Connor Ben that have bought these merchandise. you need to come out and say what's going on. The idea of just sort of hiding, and that's kind of what he's doing here, hiding behind social media,

isn't going to work. You've spent a long time building up this fantastic reputation and becoming this new star of boxing. That's all crumbling beneath you right now, unless you come out and say something. And I think sometimes silence is the worst thing. The fact you're not saying anything almost is a sign of giving.

The fact that you can't think of something to say is a problem. And I know you mentioned Eddie Hearn. This isn't an Eddie Heard issue. Eddie Hearns is the promoter. Connor Ben's got his own team. I've sort of been to all of Conner Ben's fights. And there's a team of about 20 that wear Conner Ben tracksuits. Someone from that team has got to say something.

It's all well and good when Conner's winning. And you're wearing the nice Conner Ben bling tracksuits. Now, what about now? Now there's a problem. One of you in that team have to come out and say, something. If you don't, then as Sergio said, your name's in the mud. Your name's in the mud forever. I mean, the biggest star in boxing, Canello, still struggles to kind of find his way out of that Cabrucho issue three years ago, sorry, two years ago. It doesn't escape you. And Conner's not as big

as Canello. So unless Connor releases a statement in the next, and I'm talking a video statement, not a stupid Twitter statement. Unless he releases the boy of hours, there's going to be big problems ahead, big problems. Hey, two things I want to touch on. No, hold on, Chris, two things I don't want to touch on that. I mean, as always, you articulate, nailed it right on the money.

And the Klembrutero, however you say that Kinella was founded with, in that tainted meat, slight traces of that is still allowed, you know, in the PED testing. But slight testing of this drug, this fertility drug, that's not allowed.

So, you know, you can actually maybe, you know, not sweep it under the rug, but explain a slight trace of something. Yeah, yeah. But this you cannot. That's one. And two, yes, I agree with you. He has to come out and say something.

Wouldn't it be something amazing if he can be the first athlete in any sport to come on and say, yeah, I did it? not hide behind anything. Say, you know what? I attempted a cheat. I'm a young man. I'm ambitious. I want the world or something stupid.

Can you imagine? You know, all the hate he would get, of course. But then all the respect, he would get my respect. He would get my respect. And he said, you know what? This kid, this young man manned up and admitted something that 99.9, 100% of fighters and athletes have never done. Not one fighter has ever come out and said, you know what? Yeah, man, I try to cheat.

Connor Ben could be the first. I think he can man up and get some kind of dignity back if he can actually do that, but he won't. But Sergio, do you believe that he would get his dignity back? I mean, look, I grew up in Boston, and I can remember back in 2007 when Rodney Harrison was playing for the Patriots, and Rodney Harrison admitted to taking human growth hormone because he wanted to accelerate the healing process in his leg, yet a leg issue that he was going through. And he took a four-game suspension for it, but he said it was worth it

because he was trying to heal his body. This was going to give him the best shot to do it. That's one, that's where admission makes some sense. But in boxing, like, this is serious. This is life or death stuff. If Connor Ben comes out and says, yeah, I took it to give me an edge, I don't think people are going to be in a rush to forgive him.

I don't think he's going to gain any of his dignity back. It might even make people angrier because he's admitted to taking something that could be used, could be weaponized, really, in a way. The other thing when it comes to Connor Ben is, look, if this is in his system now, it's probably not the first time he's taking it. I'm not basing that on any inside information. I just know that in general, the first time you are caught doing something wrong is most often not the first time you have done something wrong. So while I agree with you in some circumstances, just saying you took drugs, whether you're Rodney Harrison or Andy Petit or any of these like baseball players or other athletes that have taken drugs, it's generally worked out for them.

But in boxing, it just feels a little bit different. If it was any other PED, I would think manning up and being honest would actually clear the table. But it was a fertility drug. Men don't take that unless they're trying to do something that, you know, I don't know much of. Increased testosterone. That's it. You know, you're not the biggest problem is, sorry to cut across you, Sergio. I think the biggest problem why I don't think people will forgive him if he mans up is because you tried to drain Chris Eubate Jr. down to 100.

57 pounds. So that's one thing. You then try to install a rehydration clause, which is another thing. And then on top of that, you've now obviously been found guilty for taking a performance and arts and drug. I mean, is it not enough to drain Chris Schuemate Jr.? Is it not enough to put a rehydration clause in? Is that not enough? I mean, this is the sport that we love, but we also, all three of us, understand the dangers of this sport. Is it not enough to do those two things, but then you want to add almost a bit more on top, it's going to be very, very difficult, especially over here in the UK. I don't know what it's like in the States, but over here in the UK, it's very, very difficult. There was a sprinter called Duane Chambers that we loved

over here. He got caught and he got a four-year band. Every time he ran on track after that four-year band, he was booed. It never goes away. It didn't go away. Conner Ben is 100 times more famous than that guy because of his name value. It's going to be incredibly difficult to recover from this unless by some miraculous statement or video or something, he explains how it got in his system. And then it's up for us to decide whether or not we believe him or not. But again, the silence.

But Adi, I'm sorry to interrupt. How can you, how can a man, a young man have fertility drugs? I know it boosts his testosterone, but fertility is not for men. I mean, I'm not a doctor, but how does a young man explain? The only way he can explain, and look, this is not me trying to find an excuse for Connor Ben,

but I mean, a lot of people have spoken about the new, and I don't know if you had one, surgery, but the new strength and conditioners that are now part of the sport of boxing. Before you was a trainer, and then you used to go and do your roadwork, and then train yourself. There's this new click of strength and conditioning coaches

that seem to offer you whatever. Like, here, here, take that. I don't know sometimes if boxers do their own due diligence as to what they're taking. You almost like you trust the guys that are with you. Absolutely. And I've been part of that, especially at the end of my career. And I wish I could say their names because people will know who I'm talking about. But at the end of my career, those were offered to me.

And I just didn't want to risk everything that I accomplished for one or two fights and one or two paydays, but I'm not going to say I didn't think about it, but it's just not worth it, man. And those guys are scumbags. They're all intelligent scumbags. They're weasels, and they know how to, you know, use chemistry and hide it and bring it out of your system and all that other stuff. It's not worth it, man. It is not worth it. And if for some reason, Connor Ben or some of his team told them that it, you know, maybe rationalized and told them that it was going to get out. out of the system or maybe say that out, you can get away with it or whatever.

He still shouldn't have done it, man. The only thing a fighters should do is run, train, eat well, drink water, and that's it, man. You don't need to put all this other stuff in your system. For 200 years, man, fighters have been fighting without all this science. Why do we need it all of a sudden? Why do we need all these chemistry? It's mono on mono.

It's trained the best you can, drink your water, take your vitamins. Vitamins, a simple one a day. That's all I took for 20 years. you don't need everything else, man. Everything in boxing is here, here, and of course, you know. Yeah. Yeah, I also think it is insane that so many of these nutritionists and sports scientists are disgraced drug sheets. People like Victor Conti, who was at the center of the Balco Barry Bond scandal in the late 90s in early 2000s.

People like Memo Heredia, who have admitted that he was involved in doping years ago. These people are now nutritionists in boxing. And it's bizarre because the idea they could infiltrate other sports like football or baseball or hockey on a regular basis is just it's nuts. But here they are in the sport of boxing, which is, as always, the Wild West. Adi, I want to finish with you. what has this done to Connor Ben's reputation in the UK? What was the perception of him before all this and what is the perception of him now?

Well, we looked at him as that next star before, right? I mean, we understand that we're coming to an end with sort of our heavyweight stars, Tyson, Fury, AJ, these are guys that all into the 30s. And, you know, we're looking for that next guy that can fill stadiums, eventually maybe go to America and cause some problems over there. He just seemed to have it all.

He has the look. In his last few performances, he has the knockout victories. He speaks so well on the mic. And that was it. That was our star, right? We was looking for you guys have got Giovante and Ryan Garcia. He's our version of that. Someone that understands the new age of social media.

He's got a YouTube channel. He literally ticks every single box in terms of what we want our boxing star to look like. Right now, his name's in the mud. I mean, I can't imagine what he's going through and look, whether or not I should feel sorry for him is another question, but I can't imagine what he's going through looking on social media right now. People are genuinely angry and it's the wrong people. What I mean by that is people that have got a million Twitter followers

and they're saying stuff and then everyone's jumping on board. I mean, I work for a radio station called Talk Sport and they've absolutely destroyed him over here. And it's going to take, it's literally, I almost feel like it's an impossible job to mend it. And I hope it's not because I don't want his career at what is he, 25, 26 to be over now. But it's going to take a while for people to forgive him

because we were looking forward to this one. This was our fight. This was almost our Super Bowl event. And it's now done. And it's difficult. You guys imagine over there your Super Bowl being ended. It's difficult for our Super Bowl to kind of go like this. So people are angry, people disappointed.

I want to say people move on quickly, but not from this. They won't move on quickly from this at all. So good luck to his team trying to repair the damage because it's going to take a while. Sergio, I'll give you the last word of this. How does Connor Ben move forward? How does he reclaim his reputation? Is it about going into year-round testing? Is it about going into weekly blood testing, turning into the most transparent athlete

when it comes to drug testing in boxing history. How in your mind does he move forward? I think the last word, Adi, just summed it up perfectly. He summed it up perfectly. My advice, admit what you did. Admit what you did, ask for the public's apology and just say that you'll do better. We're all human, we all mess up.

We all try to get an advantage somehow, some way, but legally, but in a blood sport, in a dangerous sport, yeah, you can't take shortcut. So you just either got a man up or find another job to do, man, because as Aday so eloquently put it, it's going to be very hard, man. He disappointed a lot of people that put all their faith and trust and him being the next superstar, and he just shot those dreams down, and it dispirits, you know, fans. It takes away, it just leaves a bad taste in their mouth. and then when they see your face or they see your posts

or they see your next fight or they, they just don't like it anymore. So I would say, man up and know what you did. Say you're human, move on. Adi, what does the damage control look like for Connor Ben? Well, I think they started already, right? I know that obviously he felled VADA testing, but over here we have UKAD, which is UK anti-doping.

Since, obviously, this VADA test had been failed. And again, we're led to believe it was about a month ago. he's done a lot of UK anti-doping tests and it's come about all negative. So they've already started the damage control. So I think it is a case of year-round sort of random UKAD testing, maybe doing and signing up to Svalda again.

And that's the only way. Honestly, it's the only way. I mean, Eddie and Kelly made sure, sort of making sure that I knew that it had been postponed this event as opposed to it being counseled. So they are looking at putting this event on again, very soon. There's no two ways about it. Whether or not the public are going to like it is another thing, but they made sure in

their statements, and I think everyone can read their statements online at this event has been postponed, not cancelled. So I think they're already starting the damage control, full year-round, random UKAD testing, and then we move forward. I think it's a bit too soon to do what they're trying to do, but these are promoters, and I'm just a guy that works for the broadcaster. in this new age the event might be

postponed or cancelled but his reputation is probably cancelled especially now with social media and everything travels around the world so fast it's going to be very hard man as you put it very hard for him to get back and that's why I know time's going guys so apologies but that's why he needs to release a statement

and explain how and why the longer he waits Chris Sergio the worse it gets I mean I'm I'm guilty with that myself sometimes of just shutting the curtains. This isn't a shut in the curtain moment. This is literally opening the curtain and explaining what happened. If he continues to hide behind statements, then I guess the bigger the problem gets. Yeah, it's a tough week for boxing.

It's a tough week for Connor Ben. It's a tough week for boxing fans who are once again talking about something that doesn't have anything to do with what happens in the ring. And for Connor Ben, I think we all agree. He's got a lot of work to do if he's going to reclaim the respect of boxing fans, of his peers. Maybe he'll believe that as he says, he is a clean athlete. Adela Depot broadcaster over in the UK with DeZone, Sergio Amora, former junior middleweight champion, DeZone broadcaster. Fellows, appreciate the time and perspective, as always.

Cheers, guys. Cheers. When we come back, my conversation with Chris Algeri. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal. but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win. A win is a win.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people

who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill,

waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because, of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. So the big news this week, of course, Connor Ben testing positive for a banned substance canceling or postponing, I guess is the more accurate word, his upcoming

fight against Chris Eubank Jr. Ben has been a rising prospect for several years now and he's beat some notable names in that time. One of them, Chris Algeri, former 140 pound champion who lost to Connor Ben last December. And I wanted to bring in Chris to the show because I'm curious how opponents of Connor Ben are feeling in this moment after the news broke that he tested positive for this band sub. So Chris, thanks for joining me, man. Let's start there.

You know, when you heard about the positive test, what was your reaction? So I woke up to it yesterday morning. You know, I've been a full 24 hours or 30 hours passed when I first actually heard about it. And honestly, my very first thought was, I'm not surprised. You know, I had heard mutterings when I was getting ready to fight him. I had mutterings around that fight week from people who were in over across the seas. And then I had heard it post, you know. So, but I always give fighters and competitors the benefit of the doubt.

If I don't know for sure, then I'm never going to mention that. I'm never going to call anybody out. even if I suspect them or not. But now that it comes to light, you know, it makes you think. And, you know, it sucks. I don't want to think about other fighters that way. I don't want to think about situations that happened in the past. But, you know, it's hard not to.

It's impossible not to. Yeah. I mean, when you look at this situation, you said you're not surprised. So you did have concerns about Connor Ben going into your fight. Absolutely. You know, I know there's a lot of hype around him. I knew who was a young fighter. I knew I was his first big step-up fight.

And, you know, there's a lot on his shoulders in order to perform, you know, perform the way that he needs to. But, I mean, the writing was on the wall. If you look at his body the way it changed from even the Granados fight to my fight, you know, which are only four months apart, you know, the differences was visible. And that's hard to do, you know, in such a short period of time when you've been at a high level for a while. you know that's one thing but again it's like ah you never know like everyone's body's different but now it just it just makes you rethink everything that you've thought leading up to it and what you had heard um yeah and i had heard from from multiple sources that that you know that he was not a clean a clean fighter um you know so now again it just it's just it's this this comes to light now

and just it just makes you think yeah and you were you were stopped in that fight and it was a scary knockout the way um you were knocked out as you look back on that knockout and I mean, do you think that, look, I was stopped by a guy that was taking something? Like, what do you, how do you feel about that knockout now? Well, even leading up to the fight, like, I'd never seen anything on video watching him. I'd never seen that kind of power. Never expected that. Didn't, wasn't worried about that kind of thing happening.

Listen, I'm always worried about a fight. Any punch can end a fight at any time. And whether it was or it wasn't, you know, I wasn't worried about that. I didn't, I didn't see that kind of power in him. I didn't, I didn't, listen, I've been in the ring of Mani Pachia. I fought Errol Spence. I've been in the ring of Ruslan Pravanovanovanov. You know, really, really scary punchers and the kind of guys who have, you know,

done a lot of damage in the ring. And I just didn't, I didn't see that. I didn't, I didn't think that that was even an option. You know, so when it came out of nowhere, I mean, I was, obviously, I was surprised. You know, I didn't expect it. And, but I just, I wasn't expecting that kind of thing even going into the fight. You know, when you, when you sign for a fight, You look at your opponent.

You look at how you're going to stand up. You look at the things you need to work on. You know, I have always been an analyst. You know, I analyzed fighters getting ready for my own fights. And now I analyze fighters as a broadcaster. So I know what I'm looking at. I never saw that kind of power, especially one-punch shot like that. Even in the fight before, Granados.

And Granos is a great chin. He's a super tough guy. I'm literally taking nothing away for him. He didn't show that kind of explosiveness and one-punch power at all. What was the drug testing like for your fight? we pissed in a cup after the fight that was it so no advanced testing for for your fight with connor ben no no body nothing of that and listen i'm in i'm a i am a one of the uh wbc uh randomly tested vada athletes year round you can test me at any time but honestly how often is that really happened

not much it's expensive to do um if they just show up where you're at i mean it's very very rare so um yeah no there was there was there was there was advanced testing other than the general commission PNACA. I know you've worked with Eddie Hearn in the past. He has suggested that the fight should have been allowed to go forward because the UKAD tests did not pop contraband. And they have jurisdiction when it comes to this type of stuff. And it was Vada that popped then. How do you feel about that about the fact that it was Vada, not the UKAD that nailed him?

it doesn't matter to you? No, it doesn't matter. I mean, if anything, I mean, I think a third-party tester who doesn't really matter in terms of if the fight happens or not is probably better. You know, we all use Vada. We all have at the highest level. You know, when I fought many Pack-out, we use Vada. When I fought Ruslan Vranica, our world title, we use Vada. So why would Vada not matter now?

Because the fight's happening over there, like because you guys don't believe in Vada? Like, what does Vada have to stand to win or gain by turning off such a huge fight or shutting down such a big fight? I don't know. Failed tests is a failed test. Drug is a drug is a drug. It's either are you aren't. It's like being pregnant. You either pregnant or you're not.

There's no stummy pregnant. So you fail a test, you fail a test. Yeah. And, you know, it says something, too. I mean, if you really can't say that, you know, you're saying the UKAD tests are not as good as Vadas. Like if VADA was the one that that caught him, then the Vata tests are the gold standard. And that's just the way it goes. I mean, I don't know.

I don't know the protocols of either testing in organization. But I do understand the way that testing and drugs work. And the guys who are developing these drugs, it's constantly turning over. They're constantly getting better. Technology is just the way it is. And there's a lot more money in making better drugs than there's. risk for making better tests that can figure out those drugs. So, you know, one could just be a day ahead of the other.

It doesn't mean that one isn't good or is whatever, but obsolete is obsolete. If you're a day late, you're a monthly. It doesn't matter. So, you know, I can't really speak to their protocols, but obviously, as one's catching something that is there and one is not, there's an issue. So what should the punishment be for something like this? It sure sounds like this fight's going to be rescheduled sooner rather than later. It may just be a matter of months, a couple of months, before we see Chris Eubank and Connor Ben in the ring.

If you could sort of be boxing commissioner for a day, what should the punishment be for Connor Ben for something like this? Minimum a year. Minimum. And honestly, the argument for life is legit. because depending on what you're doing in terms of what kind of androgens, what kind of, what kind of peds you're taking, what kind of PEDs you're taking, the physiological effect might never go away. You're getting an advantage for life in some instances. The tissue that you develop, the physiological changes that happen are real and they don't

go away because you stop taking them. So again, looking at what the specific drug that you're getting, you're getting nab for should matter. But I don't think people are looking at it that closely. You know, all intents of purpose, I think this fight is going to go push back three months. And then they're going to fight again. It's going to be no big deal. Because this is boxing.

It's the wild balled west. We let this kind of stuff happen all the time. And this is why a lot of people question boxing and why, you know, there's always the question mark and always the black eye of boxing. But yeah, no, if you really look at it physiologically from a sports, sports physiology and sports medicine and sports science standpoint, life bands are legitimate. you know what surprises me chris is that you know this they've no connor ben and his team have known about this test for weeks now they had to know or had to at least think at some point this was going to go public and as we record this there still has not been any kind of excuse floated no herbal tea excuse no laced meat no supplement that was tainted by this fertility drug and

that to me just tells me they don't have one like they don't have anything that anyone would buy in the public, which is a big problem. Like Connor Ben's out there on social media saying, I'm a clean athlete. Well, in my mind, explain how this got in your system then. Give me something I'll believe because you've had weeks and come up with nothing. Yeah. Well, in terms of the excuse, there won't be one because it's lied to you die. There's no reason for them to come out and say, oh, you know, like we didn't, this, that,

we messed up. This never going to happen again. No, not going to do that. They're going to deny it, deny it, deny it. You know, because there's no upside in saying that you tried, you tried to do it, and you got caught. Saying you made a mistake and then got caught, yeah, you know, there's people in the public could potentially be like, oh, well, you know, tainted meat. It's okay. You know, he didn't mean to do it.

It happened. But I don't believe any of that. You know, I don't believe in any of that. As a professional athlete, a high-level guy, someone was a team around them who was looking after everything you're doing. And Connor's not a dumb guy. He knows exactly the stakes of what's going on. And he's very, I have talked to him about this personally prior to us fighting about how much he's aware of his nutrition in his body. These kind of surprises, especially for the drug that he popped for.

There's no excuse. And that's why there will not be one. You were gracious in defeat after your fight with Connor Ben. You guys shared a moment in the ring that was captured on camera. I'm sure you talked after that. How do you feel about Connor Ben now? in the wake of this test? I predict Connick Ben to win this fight.

I've been saying that. I thought he was going to go out there. I was rooting for the underdog. I wanted him to win. That's all gone now. That's, this is, listen, whether he was or he wasn't when he fought me, we'll never know.

That will never come to life. The question will always be there, but it will never be known yes or no. But at the end of the day, I don't like cheaters, especially in this sport. And that means a lot to me. This sport means everything to me.

So anyone who's willing to put the lives of their opponents on the line that way, I can't respect that. Do you think there's any come? I mean, he's going to continue with his career, right? Like, with this fight, might only be pushed a couple of months. And we have seen guys, whether it's Jean-Pascal, Jarrell Miller. I mean, you even go back to the Klitschko's. I mean, Vladimir Klitschko in the Olympics back in the day, like guys get past this.

Is this the kind of thing you expect Connor Ben to, be able to get past. And if you were advising him, not that you'd want to on how to get past this, like what would you say to him in terms of moving his career forward? Listen, he's young and he has a long life and career ahead of him. But a lot of it's going to depend on what he does in his career because, listen, winners win and winners get away with a lot. Money talks in this sport. If you can keep winning, if you can keep being the man, if he ends up fighting Eubank and he wins and then he wins another big fight and then he becomes this kind of champion that kind of

champion these things will fall to the waist out back back back back back back but if there's any hiccup along the way this will never be forgotten so unfortunately this is it i am being as candid as possible it's unfortunate the way that this sport is but that's that's that is the truth winners win and the money and the money talks yeah always does uh chris i appreciate your time man i know this must have been on your mind right away when this immediately popped up. Thanks for joining me. Yeah. Yeah, anytime.

Maddox, I always appreciate the time. And when we come back, undisputed lightweight champion, Devin Haney. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clipper Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to? do a little kill. Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill,

waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but yeah, yeah, literally. But just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS. on the table right now.

Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, Devin Haney is the undisputed 135 pound champion. He is back in Australia where on October 15th he will defend.

his titles against George Cambosis Jr. in a rematch of the fight where Devin won his belts. Devin, kind enough to join me from Australia, where he's eating right now. So apparently weight's not an issue at the moment for you, Devin. No, weight is not an issue. You know, I'm ready to go. So I want to get into your fight and being back in Australia, but obviously the big news this week is Connor Ben testing positive for a banned substance. that fight against Chris Eubank Jr. now postponed for the foreseeable future.

You're an athlete that takes your drug testing very seriously. You've been enrolled in Vada for some time now. What was your reaction when you first heard that Connor Bend attested positive? I knew when I seen that it was a fertility. It was something for fertility. I knew that it was, you know, to boost his testosterone. So we all know that, you know, I'm close with Victor Conti and snack. that's when I hit Victor, I asked, like, could you, was it, was it intentional or was it, what do you think it was?

And he said it was 100% intentional. And I do feel like, you know, he was cheating. But, I mean, it is what it is. What can we do? I mean, this is boxing happens in all sports, but he's got caught. You know, you mentioned what can we do? What should boxing do? What should happen to a fighter that test pods?

I mean, I was talking to Chris Algeri before. you came on. And look, Chris was understandably upset. Like he got knocked out by Connor Ben in December of 2021. Like, what should the punishment be in your mind for fighters that test positive? Yeah.

I don't know. I mean, I'm not the board. I'm not the commission. I can't really say. But, you know, I just, I don't expect it. I don't think that it's fair, especially because, you know, the brain isn't, you know, made to be punched.

It may be hit. So, you know, we go in and we put our lives on the line. You know, the least you could do is, you know, we put it on a, you know, fair playing field, you know, mono to mono. I don't know. I just don't respect cheating in a sport of boxing at all, you know. I don't respect cheating at all, but, you know, in basketball, football, baseball, it's different.

You know, you hit a home run. It's no harm to nobody. You, you tackle somebody. It's not as bad. But, you know, when you punch somebody in the head, it gets serious. At this point in your career, would you ever fight anybody that wouldn't be enrolled in advanced testing? No, no, of course not. You know, I take the testing series.

Many times I have, you know, put my own money up for the testing to make sure that it was done when the promoters wouldn't do it. You know, I'm, it's no way, because I know that cheating does happen and it can't happen. And, you know, just, it's just to protect myself. I want to be, you know, fighting on a fair playing field. Yeah, that's the one sport where it should be taken deathly seriously, as seriously as it ever is in any other sport. Let's talk about your fight. October 15th, you're back in Australia.

You are now becoming like a resident down there after two trips in the last six months. How do you feel about being back in Australia preparing for this rematch? I feel great. You know, mentally, physically, you know, I got my full team. You know, I came here already, so I knew what to expect. You know, and I just can't wait. I'm excited for the fight. You know, you spent some time in the previous months, Devin, an interview saying it wasn't a sure thing that you'd be back in Australia.

It wasn't a sure thing that you'd be facing Cambosis in this rematch. Kind of take me inside your thinking over the last few months. Like what were you kind of contemplating doing and what was it that got you back to Australia? I mean, truthfully, I wanted more money. I mean, that was it. That was it. I just wanted more money. That was the only thing.

So you knew all along you'd be back. Yeah, but I just wanted more money. I respect that. Did you get more money? No. I mean, that contract was pretty ironclad, right? That was a tough contract to get some wiggle room in. Yeah, pretty much.

I mean, although I would say I have heard some of the numbers floated around for your purse for this fight. It sounds like you're getting a pretty good payday for this fight. Yeah, but it's never. too much. Again, I respect that. You always got to ask for more. It's just, you never take the first offer. You got to ask for more.

You're damn right. In any profession, you never take the first offer. So as you prepare for this fight, what are you expecting from Cambosis? Are you expecting some kind of big adjustment? Do you think he's capable of a big adjustment? What's kind of your expectation? I mean, it's no secret what he's going to bring to the table.

We all know that he's going to try to be, more aggressive, you know, try to make the fight dirty and, you know, rugged as possible. I mean, it's no secret. You boxed brilliantly in that first fight, made it look easy. I mean, did that first fight go as you expected it to go? I wouldn't say necessarily when completely as expected. I knew that I would handicap him of his best attributes. And, you know, that's how to fight happened.

That's how that fight played out. with me handicapping him. But, you know, despite I would handicap him, but it would be a little different. In what ways would it be different? You just got to see. You got to tune in on the 15. I will show.

Ever the salesman. You know, you were motivated to get those titles. You wanted to be undisputed champion so badly. Have you had the same motivation during this training camp? Has anything been different about this camp? Yeah, I mean, the motivation, obviously, it's not, you know, as, you know, as much as, you know, the first fight, you know, he hasn't given me, you know, much motivation. Obviously, you know, he's going quiet and he's just, you know, nowhere to be found.

But that's all part of his, you know, strategy or whatever the case may be. But it is what it is at the end of the day. This is history. this is putting me, you know, closer to being one of the greats of the sports. So, you know, when someone doesn't give you the motivation that you're looking for, you know, you get it somewhere else. You thrive for it somehow, and that's how the grades do it. So it is what it is. Now, what do you make of that, him going quiet the way he has?

We haven't heard anything from George, really, in months besides some social media posts. He talked a lot of shit in the build-up to the first fight. What do you make of him kind of going quiet? Yeah, he talked a lot of shit. You know, he got some humble pie. So now, you know, he's gone quiet. And, you know, he's seen that the shit talking, you know, wasn't really him. It wasn't really, you know, he couldn't back it up.

So now he's going to quiet. I mean, what can you think about it? I mean, I don't really know what to really say or think about it. It's boxing. So everybody talks about the future and people look at your future, whether it's Lomachenko, Shakur Stevenson, massive fights in 2023. that you could potentially have at 135. Is there any danger for you in overlooking George Cambosis in this fight?

100%. I will not overlook George Camboces. I will not look past him. You know, he is a live body. He was the guy with the belt to fight before this. So, you know, my 100% focuses on him. And without, you know, beating him, I don't get those big fights. So my main focus is beating him.

And then we'll talk about, you know, what's next? I know how hard it was for you to leave Eddie Hearn to kind of go out on your own here in a way, work with top rank, work with Lou Debella, but you wanted this opportunity. And now it seems like, Devin, you're on the cusp of getting everything you wanted. You're not only getting all the titles, but you've got the chance to have those megafights that you've been calling for for years. I mean, is that feel that way? Does it feel like this is the time you're kind of finally getting everything you wanted? Yeah, it was destined. and everything, you know, is falling into place,

falling into my hands. But, you know, I thank God for it. I thank God for it. You know, I've been working so hard, you know, sacrificing for so long and, you know, not getting the fights that I wanted. But now it's finally time, and I'm excited for it. All right, last question for you.

I was watching with amusement as you and the folks over at Ring Magazine we're going back and forth about your place in the pound-for-pound ranking. So I'll ask you this. Where does Devin-Haney think Devin-Haney belongs on the pound-for-pound list? You didn't have me in the pound-for-pound rankings either. I did not. I did not. I'll tell you why, but I want to hear where you think you belong in that list. I don't know. I can't say exactly, but I definitely deserve to be on the list.

I definitely deserve to be on the list. But why you didn't have me on your list? Well, it's, it's, I don't look at titles when I make that list ever. Like, it's just like, I always look at resume. That's why I have Canelo still higher than most people do. It's why I have Ussick higher than most people do. You are unquestionably a pound-for-pound talent. And by this time next year, I think you can make the argument you should be number one

in the pound-for-pound rankings. Because I'm assuming if you beat Cambosis, if you beat Lomacheco, if you beat Chikor Stevenson, that is a number one. guy type of resume, at the very least a top five. So the only reason I don't have you in the top ten is resume. I'm 23 years old. Undisputed.

Just beat the man who beat the man who beat the man who you had on your fucking list. You have Lama on your list, right? I do. But again, that's resume. But he lost. So losses don't matter with his resume. So you

lost it don't matter. You just say, okay, he can fight 10 people. If he lose, beat five, lose the five, then it doesn't matter because he beat five. Five of those top guys. Well, no, not five, but like, Canello's got two losses, but they were two elite guys. So I don't, I'm not going to penalize him that much for it. There aren't a lot of guys with losses on him. But, but, but, but, but Canello lost in Floyd. Did Floyd lose after? Cana, can't, Canella lost the Bivar. Did Bivar lose after? No, Loma lost not yet. Tio,

okay, but you're projecting. You're trying to project some shit. He lost to Tio, Tio lost to Camoso, Camboza lost to me. Right. Look, I get your logic there. Four plus four, four, eight. But Loma's got, Loma's resume at 126,

130, and 135 put him on that list to me. Like, he's fought probably better guys than you at this point. Okay, you, you, your list will consist of to do what he did three years ago rather than what he's doing today. But I still think he's that guy from three years ago. And like, if you get through these next couple of fights,

you'll have a better resume. I think it's a subjective list. Yes, it's a subjective list. I think that he's that guy. Yes. Yeah, you don't know. You don't know if he's that guy. I'll tell you what.

He has, if he looks like shit against Jermaine Ortiz, I'll take him off the list. Like, if he looks bad in that fight, like that will be the most recent example of him fighting. It looked like shit against Tia Pimo. Say he's shorter. Say his shorter was broken. Say his shorter was broken.

No, I never said that. I never give him that out. I don't give him that kind of out. He didn't look good in that fight, but he's had, look, you're going to get your, it's inevitable that you're on that list. It's just, you just started to get the medium-level fights with Eddie when you had Lanaris and you had Jojo.

Those were good fights. Now you beat Cambos. That's a better win. And the next year you get everything. If you're not on the list next year, in the top five, I'll be shocked. Because you'll go into those fights as a favorite or 50-50 against both guys. All right. We'll never agree.

But look, I always love watching you, man. You're a great fighter. No, we agree. I want to see you. I agree. I agree. I will be. I will be.

I will be number one. I believe that. All right, Devin, good luck on October 15th, man. We're watching on ESPN rematch with George Cambosis Jr. Going to be a lot of fun, man. Good luck. Thank you, Chris. Always good talking to you.

And when we come back, this week's picks brought to you by Fandul. Football season is underway, so now it is the perfect time to download Fandul, America's number one sports book. Because right now, new customers get a no-swet first bet up to $1,000. That's free bets back if your first bet. doesn't win. Just sign up with the promo code boxing. I have been gambling with Fandul for some time now. I'm based part-time in New York, which is now a great state to bet with online gambling. Massachusetts, where I'm also based. Gambling's coming that way as well. So I do some boxing

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Your winnings fast. So sign up today with promo code boxing for your first no sweat first bet. Make every moment more this season with Fandul, official sports book partner of the NFL. Time now for this week's picks brought to you by our friends over. at Fandul. No Ben Ubank Jr. fight this weekend, but there is a pretty good one on Saturday on Showtime. Sebastian Fondura, the huge junior middleweight contender, 6'54 pounder. He is the interim champion at 154. He's going to take on Carlos Ocampo in Southern California. Now Fondora comes into this fight as a huge favorite. Minus 1,300, according to Fandul. I think that's a safe

bet if you want to park some money there. Fondora is really coming into his own over the last couple of years. He's coming off his best win to date. A just brutal beating of Erickson Lubin. So I think he's peaking right now as a fighter, or at least getting close to it. Ocampo, solid, but I don't give him much of a chance at winning this fight. If you want to try to win a little bit of money, you bet on the method of victory here. Sebastian Fondora by K.O. or TKO is at minus 220.

Again, not great odds, but Fondora, if you watch him of late, he is really growing into his power. He is determined going into fights to make them entertaining. He is looking for knockouts. I think he's going to get one against Carlos Ocampo. So take Sebastian Fondora to win. That was the easy one. Take him to win by knockout. That's the one you have a chance to win some money for.

Those are my picks brought to you by Fandu. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Sergio Amora, Adiola Depot, Chris Algeria. and Devin Haney for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts, and I'll see you next week. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put it. on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast,

The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.