The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Chocolatito-Estrada III is here

Episode Date: December 2, 2022

Chris is joined by the great Sergio Mora as the guys react to Dillian Whyte - Jermaine Franklin, should people have a problem with Fury-Chisora, and they preview the fight between Chocolatito-Estrada. Later, the two-time world heavyweight champion, Tyson Fury stops by to talk about his upcoming fight with Derek Chisora. #Volume #ColinCowherd #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Or somebody punch him in the face. Anthony Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher. Watch this. Andrew Ruiz is the heavyweight champion. Hosted by S.I's Chris Mannix. That was my moment. Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance.

Here's Chris Mannix. Join me now on the podcast. He is the former junior middleweight champion. The contender champion of season one where the finals were seen by over 12 million people. He is the star of the Zonne Broadcasting team. He is Sergio Mora. Wow.

You happy? Thank you. Thank you very much. I think I deserve that. And you know what? I might not just, I was going to read a statement. You're going to read a statement. I might recant the statement now because of that intro.

It's a good intro. Damn good intro. About time you recognize real, but I'm still going to give my statement. You know, you are so sensitive. This will be my final appearance on the Chris Manick podcast. This is the last time I grace you and your listeners with my informative insights and boxing knowledge. For you, Chris Mannix don't pay enough money, and yet you take all the credit and ratings. This will be my last appearance.

I am not appreciated or properly compensated. Enjoy everyone. For the record, you still owe me money, so you are properly compensated. All right, on your last appearance on the show, which it's not. We are going to talk about what we saw last weekend with the Regis program. We're going to look ahead to what we are going to see this weekend with Chocolatito versus Estrada part three. Later in the show, Tyson Fury, the heavyweight champion of the world, he joins me to talk about his upcoming fight and tell us what he'd be doing if he was not boxing right now. Interesting answer there from Tyson Fury.

But first, Sergio, we're going to stay in the heavyweight division and look back on what was a pretty disappointing weekend for Dillian White. Dillian White, former title challenger, coming off the loss to Tyson Fury last spring. He faced Jermaine Franklin in what everyone anticipated to be just a shake off the rust type of fight. Franklin was undefeated, but he was completely untested. Instead, it turned out to be a nip-and-tuck fight all the way to the end. White gets the decision, but he was far from impressive, at least to my eyes. What did you see? You're hard to impress.

Jermaine Franklin was a good fighter, really good fighter, but he's just too small for the division. He reminds me of... Yeah, Wade White on that night. Yeah, but he's just shorter. I mean, in this age of heavyweights, you've got to be at least six foot four. Franklin... Bridge of weight? I want to hop down the bridge weight there.

There's a bit of bridge or weight. I just don't think he's going to have the size to compete with these monsters at heavyweight. And Dillion White, what, six foot four? And he's fought the monsters before. I thought White, he gutted out a damn good performance against a real good fighter in Franklin. You didn't think that was a good performance by White, did you? I love the body shots. I like the game plan, the toughness.

Believe me, look, Franklin's a good fighter. You know what he reminded me of Curtis Stevens? He was like a bigger version of Kurt and Stevens. He's just too small for the weight division. Stevens gave everyone a hard time at middleweight. He just couldn't beat the big guys at middleweight. Franklin's going to be the exact same ways, the combinations, the hooks. He hurt Dillon White.

I think it was in the ninth round with that overhand right. If you would have 10 seconds, if I would have ended a knockout, but that's boxing for you. So I was impressed with Franklin's performance against a very tough title challenger, who's only lost to the best in championship level in White. But I think Franklin is not a legitimate heavyweight.

I don't think in this era he's going to be able to win a title at heavyweight. So, yeah, bridge your weight is his future. Credit to Franklin for exceeding expectations, but I thought Dillon White looked old. You know, he's 35, he's been through some tough fights. He's been knocked out before this in two of his previous three fights. He looked like a guy that was shop-worn at that point. Yeah, and that's what makes for exciting.

Was it an exciting? Was it an entertaining fight? It was interesting. I don't entertainings a lot. I thought it was an entertaining fight. A couple times, like the ninth round Franklin heard White. He got hurt. It ended in excitement.

It was an entertaining fight, I believe. It wasn't a classic slug fest. I was entertained. And there was moments of Dillion White. I mean, he threw excellent body shots. He had a good game plan as well because Franklin was waiting to check hook and counterpunch. White kept throwing that right hand to the midsection and the gut and that kept the left hook and check. Dillion White's a very smart fighter.

He's never going to win a championship. And yes, he's past his prime, but he's still entertaining. He's still going to get the calls. I mean, look at Chisora. He's fighting Tyson Fury. Yeah, but that's just a money. These guys like that, they have a name. They're certified tough guys.

They've been to the top. They're always going to be able to make money, and Dillion White is still in there. He still has another payday coming. We'll get to Tyson Fury and Darsora, but I'm prepared to say Chasora is probably going to get steamrolled in that fight. You have long been a advocate for not changing trainers. You know, you're with Dean Campos, virtually your entire career. You've always been a loyalty guy, a belief that the right guy works. this was the first fight for Dillian White and Buddy McGirt.

And to my eyes, Sergio, it didn't work. Like, Buddy McGirt, who has one of those voices that you can hear from every corner of an arena, came through the TV screaming stuff at Dillian White. Use the jab. Use that crab defense that protected him from the uppercuts. And it just seemed to me that Dillian was resisting the entire fight. Like he just wasn't responding or didn't want to respond to Buddy McGart. And as he kind of moves this forward, I wonder if Buddy McGur is the right guy for him.

You know the one time that I considered leaving Dean Campos, I called Buddy McGirt? Really? Didn't know that about you. Yeah, I did. When was this? After the Brian Vera. First one? I think it was the first one.

Yeah, one of those. And it was Brian, Buddy McGirt. I just shot him a text and he goes, yeah, man, I would love to train you. I've known you since, you know, 2001, 2002, whatever. Anyway, I'm a big fan of Buddy McGirt because he was an. Excellent boxing. You watched his fights with Simon Brown, you realize, like, wow, that's Buddy McGirt. Hall of Famer.

Hall of Famer, two division champion. And he's going to Hall of Fame as a trainer, too, I believe. Maybe, maybe. Less. I'm not blaming Buddy McGirt for anything. I just think it got lost in translation. Buddy McGirt, he did well with Kovalev, and they had different backgrounds, but I just think they were lost in translation. and Dillon White is already an old horse.

And I know they say you can't teach new dogs, new tricks. Well, shit, horses are even harder to teach. I mean, they're more stubborn. Dilling White has been successful and not successful in the championship level, doing what he does. He's a tough guy. He likes to mix it up. Buddy McGirt has this defensive-minded way of boxing and fighting. He turns punchers into boxers.

He did it with Arturo Gatti. He tried to do it with the Crusher Kovalev. So, you know, Dilling White's a puncher. sure. If you want to fight into your older 30s and continue making money, you got to become a boxer and Dalyuan White just likes to be a slugger. Yeah, and I think it's proven if you listen to Buddy, there's positive results. I mean, you mentioned Kovalev. He didn't win that fight against Canello, but he fought exactly the way Buddy wanted him to, and it was close on the cards before Canello knocked him out. Covalhoff threw hundreds of jabs in that fight. I can still hear

in my ear, the sound of Buddy McGirt yelling at Dillion White to throw more jabs. And Dillian White has the frame to be a good jab puncher, right? Like, he's incredibly long. He has one of the great wingspans in boxing. Like, if Dillian White will listen to Buddy, then that pairing can work. But I don't come away from that fight, Sergio, thinking Dillian and Buddy are on the same page. You nailed it right on the head right there. And that has to do with character. And I like to talk a lot about character and fighters, because look, if you're not going to mesh with somebody's personality, you're not going to mess with them in training. Buddy McGreg, I got to know him well when he trained Fernando Vargas. Fernando Vargas, you know, he moved

trainers and he went with Buddy McGirt for one time. And that's when I got to know Buddy and, and Fernando and him didn't mix. Fernando was an offensive-minded fighter. He was a gritty, bawdy fighter. He liked mixing it up. Buddy brings a little defense to the table. He wants to extend careers. And everyone that he's, that he's actually been successful with, he extended their careers. It didn't work with Fernando because Fernando just doesn't have that personality. But that's where I got to know, Buddy. I realized like, damn, man, this guy's a hell. Not only was he a hell of a fighter, but a hell of a trainer, and I kept that in my memory bank, like, man, if something ever happens with me and my trainer, this guy I go with, then sure enough,

15 years later, I shot him a text, and then it happened, materialized, by I respect, buddy a lot. Why didn't it happen? Because Dean's the man. Dean Campos is the man. I mean, he, he knows his strategies. It's just, you know, when you lose. you got to blame someone and that's how it is that's how it is in boxing you know like sometimes fighters and trainers especially new pairings don't work i mean manual steward's one of the great trainers of all time he was oil and water with Miguel coto when they trained together freddie roach has worked with some great fighters but him and vladimir clitchco wasn't the same as him and mani pack yeah there you go sometimes it just doesn't work out and i do wonder if buddy and

dillian are the right match but to spin this forward like we're going to get dillian white versus anthrae joshua but i don't walk away from white Franklin thinking white Joshua was going to be competitive. I mean, even if it's a diminished version of Joshua, I think he's just going to walk right through Dillion White. I don't know if you... I think you're wrong, no. Really?

No, I think... Because Dillion White always... He's always in a good fight. He's been in his losses where he came up short. Maybe except for the Tyson Fury one, but against Joshua, against... It wasn't really a competitive fight against Joshua. But he was slinging the punches. He was a lot younger.

He was a... It was an entertaining fight. There was interesting moments in that in that, in that, fight and what was his other loss it was Tyson theory is uh Joshua and Pavec and he came back and starched Pavec and he was winning that fight against Pavec and he was winning that fight. Exactly so he's he's only lost in the championship level so I think if he fights Joshua you're wrong man I think he he brings that motivation and everything he learned from those championship losses and experience against a vulnerable mentally mentally vulnerable fighter in Joshua coming off a loss we don't know

what he's going to have yeah man I like that fight I I think if this was five years ago, I probably agree with you, but I think at 35 years old, and having been knocked out in two of his last four fights, I think there's not a lot left, at least at the high level from Dillian White. A better fight this past weekend was Regis Progrey against Jose Zapata.

Progrey, for some reason, has been just ignored by the major promoters. Can't get a deal with matchroom, can't get a deal with top rank, can't get a deal with Golden Boy. Before the Zapata fight, Sergio, He had fought one time in the last three years, or no, sorry, three times in the last three years. And I've always wondered why.

Like, this is a entertaining American power puncher. Like, why was this guy not welcomed into the club of top guys at 135, 140, and 147? Then he goes out against the Peda and shows me why I'm right in a way. Because he was, it was entertaining, he dominated, and he had a spectacular finish. at the end i i think right now and 140 is one of the best divisions in boxing i think right now you can make the argument that the best guy at 140 is regis pro gray he was nip and tuck with uh josh taylor lost a close fight over in the uk against josh taylor and then he goes out and just stomps zepeda a guy that's won some pretty high level fights over the last few years uh is regis

progrey now the man at 140 no he's number two the man is josh taylor the man is josh taylor the man is the man who beat the man that beat pro grails i mean it was a very close what split decision but look at josh taylor another guy that's inactive and kind of going under the radar as far as coming off a bad win over catarral but look at who he's fought his last six opponents have been undefeated opponents what is it jack catarrow undefeated ramirez undefeated uh... consang undefeated regis proger undefeated barrenchenc undefeated martin character undefeated victor posto come on these that's a great great resume

you give me another undisputed champion another champion that has that kind of a record back to back to back undefeated fighters you're not getting it so pro gray is the man at 140 he's now a two-time champion and I agree with you how he's flown under the radar so long I don't get it I think Lou Debella

promoted him. DeBella Adam they split up so he did have a major promoter under one time lose a very a big promoter but he doesn't have kind of the power anymore that some of the other because of network TV deals that's what it comes down to okay the network all right so

you know there's so many networks I just think pro gray is uh he's a man that that I really like I really like pro great not only his fighting style but outside of the ring the way he carries himself the way he's an excellent champion I just think he's a well one he's a southpaw a lot of you know

promoters kind of like pushing other you know they try to avoid southpaws it's hard to match them and he's just a Damn good fighter, man. A damn good fighter that didn't know how to probably market him a move him well, but after this performance was the Peta, you can bet that, you know, people are going to win. Now everyone is going to line up for the opportunity to fight him.

And it's my understanding that Jose Ramirez and his team do not want to face Pro Gray in their next fight. I think there's going to be something a little softer for Jose Ramirez, but off for a while at this point. but if he passes, then you could be looking at pro-Gre against Tea-Fimo Lopez in the first half next year. Tea-Fi-Mo-Lopez is next in line as mandatory challenge. I talked to Teo Fimo this week, and he said, if that fight is offered to him, if he beats Sando-Martine in a week, he will take that fight. And I hope he's right. I hope he top-ranked and everybody wants it because that's another great fight.

And it's a fight that can be made because Pro-Gray, what, is a free agent? Effectively a free agent. It works with Probelem. Okay. He's a free agent, so show him the money. ESPN and top rank have the money. Tio Fimo Lopez and him will be explosive. That would be a great fight.

I mean, yeah, sign me up for that one. And it'll be a full world title fight now that ProGre is a champion. So Tio Fimo is going to have all the incentive to actually take a chance with a hard-punching, very good South Paul that's now a champion. So I love that fight. Bring it on. It's such a great division right now because you've got the guys. that are there pro gray taylor ramirez lopez then you've got the guys that are going to be there

in the next six months to a year ryan ryan garcia devon hayney maybe some others at one 35 it's a fantastic division that i hope these fights um all get made i think they can be made because the politics are a little cleaner with with some of this stuff yeah but the question was is he number one and i say no he's roooo is number two yeah yeah which is fair i think it's fair he lost the fight and i don't think there's any real disputingly lost the fight. It was very close, but he lost that fight. All right, let's talk about some of the fights we have coming up this weekend. Tyson Fury is over in the UK taking on Derek Chisora. He's gotten a lot of heat for this fight, Sergio. Like, he's gotten some criticism for taking on Chisora. I don't really blame him for it because he did want to and tried to make the fight

against Alexander Usik, but Usik said, you know what, I'm going to wait till early next year, let some injuries heal. There were discussions for a fight with Anthony Joshua, but come Like making Joshua against Fury in like six weeks didn't make any sense. You need Joshua to get a win. And then next summer, if Fury's undisputed at heavyweight and Joshua is on like a two-fight winning streak, you can, that's still once again the biggest fight you can make in all of boxing. So I don't know about you, but I didn't have a real problem with Chasora as, as Furies. Yes, you did.

Yes, you did. We did it in an episode of Jabs. When you asked me, who should Tyson Fury stay busy with? I said Chisorra and said, what for what? It's a neat. I'm going to bring it up. You can find it. But I said, on an episode of jab, you said Chasora makes no sense.

I said, absolutely it makes sense. He always comes to fight. I mean, that's war Chasora. People love him in England. He can pack out a crowd. It's a stay busy fight better than being inactive, waiting for Ousset and Wilder and Johnson. And I think it's a lot better than fighting some unknown German. And you shat.

I did not. Shit, chat, past tense, chat on that matchup. And you said, no, Chasoras. Oh, they's already beaten him twice. He's already beaten him twice. He has no chance to win. Now you're recanting. That's a word recanting what you said on Jabs.

I'm going to have Bob, our producer, bring that up because on Jabs, you shat on that fight. I said, no, man, stay busy, stay working. People love Chesora and make sense until Wilder, Joshua or Ucic become available, and the Gypsy King gets out of another A-Side, A-Side versus A-Side. Until then, Chisora fits the bill.

You can have Bob find the clip on your computer, which doesn't work. You're like Hansel from Zoolander with that computer. In the computer? Yeah, you know what? And I'm raising my kids that way, anti-computer, anti-I-pad, because they're going to be articulate. They're going to remember phone numbers, and they're going to remember names. I have a great memory.

You don't remember any of those things. Yeah, but I got hidden the head for 22 years. Look, Fury, my opinion right now, Fury can do whatever he wants with this fight. He wants to stay busy. He wants to keep fighting. Next year, he's going to fight Usik. Oshik's going to be ringside for Fury versus Chesore. Usik has never priced himself out of a fight, so it's going to be.

going to happen. So March, April, next year, we get that fight. And then Fury, maybe it's Wilder. Although, I think that's kind of crazy. I don't need to see Fury Wilder for, frankly, at this point. Maybe it's Joshua. That's what we said about the third one, or at least I did. I know. It turned out to be a fight of the year. A great fight. I think it's interesting, not to go off topic here, but I think it's interesting to see that Wilder and his team are gitty about the idea of facing John. They don't want to face Andy Ruiz in their next fight. They want to face Joshua. Yeah, because that's a, Andy Ruiz is just wrong for every heavy it because he's just his hands are so fast and he has he has he has a mexican style in the heavyweight

division with which is unheard of because mexicans don't grow that big and then he has fast hands and now he has the experience he has a confidence he's a former heavyweight champion so if i was walders management i think it's shelly think he'll stay all the way from uh mexican rocky there andy ruiz yeah he's all wrong for you but um i love i love that rematch again i mean i know i said i didn't want the third one but after seeing that trilogy, they're going to be like the next Marcus Paciel. Like we don't want to see it,

but then when it happens, like, I want to see it again, you know? It's a lot of head punches from two big men. That's a lot of beatings that are being pulled out in that fight. Yeah, it is.

And you do it once. That's great. You do it four times. Yeah, but you do it four times getting paid, $40 million or whatever they're getting paid.

So it's worth those beatings, man. Fury wants that fight in the UK. I like that fight in the UK. You do enough, do enough times over in the U.S., do it once in the UK. And look,

We're going to be commentating a great trilogy is going to go down on history. Now they're going to be fighting for, if they fight for a fourth time, it's going to go down in the history books. I mean, you can mention that trilogy alongside, and I'm not exaggerating, alongside Ali Frazier,

because it was classic trilogy, maybe not in name recognition and popularity around the world, but in what happened inside the ring and how memorable it was, it was incredible. And then it captured the imagination of different demographic of fans and people

and around the world. It was international. It was a world heavyweight championship of the world. It wasn't just American versus American. Bring it on. I'll take the fourth fight. I want to talk about Chocotito Estrada in one second, but I want to get your take on something that happened this week.

Did you see the video that made the rounds of Carlos Padilla, the referee in the Pacquiao fight from 2000? Oh, I read about it, yes. Yeah, this was the referee who, a fissue, who also, by the way, you mentioned he did, I believe, the Rumble of the Jungle, or the thrill of Manila, one of the Ali, Ali Frazier in Manila.

He refereed a fight with Manny Pachial involved in 2000. And he admitted to giving Pachial an 18 count. This was two fights before Pachial won a world title. And, you know, I've seen clips of the video making the rounds on social media. I guess the WBC for some reason made it private. I don't really understand what that's all about. I have a huge problem with this, Sergio. Like a big problem with this.

Like this guy. I don't know if he's still in boxing, but should never be allowed. He should be treated like Panama Lewis. Like, you should. You gave it 18 count to a fighter? I don't know what. That's a little bit hard.

I mean, extreme there. I mean, you go from a guy that took out padding out of a glove and it was a known cheater. I'm saying you get the same punishment. Be banned. Done. I think he's like 88 years old. He's probably not doing anything.

I mean, yeah, banned, yes, but maybe suspended. But, yeah. Band. he's already retired good sue somebody should sue him it's like when you're at the edge of death and then you want to recant

everything you did wrong just for you can go into the pearly gates I think Padilla wanted to get that off the shoulders I really recant as much as it is unburden unburdened oh there you'll confess you don't want that burden you know so Padilla didn't want that burden you probably had a lot of them tough shit like

you can confess but there's a consequence to it there's a price you have to pay well ban a 88 year old Yeah. Is that thing? That's a consequence? I wouldn't let him sniff another boxing, an official boxing related event.

I wouldn't even let him get tickets to any kind of fight ever again. What a scumbag. Like an absolute scumbag. For giving an 18 count to Manny Packett. We said that people, I guess, said the U.S. told him, you know, Paco's got big things ahead of him moving forward. Get the fuck out of it.

At 18 count? How about the, who refereed Buster Douglas Tyson? I mean, that was a long count. That was, I forget. or the referee was. That was a long count. Tyson could have continued being the monster he was. Okay, but this is a referee that...

That costs a lot, tens of millions of dollars, and the trajectory of Mike Tyson's incredible career got derailed because of that long count that he should have knocked out Buster Douglas in whatever round that was. It happens, man. I think the referee was trying to help Buster Douglas? Who knows?

Maybe when he's 88, he might come back and recant. I don't know. Fugned Fence. To hell with this guy. To hell with Carlos Padilla. Seriously, you're a scumbag. Don't ever be involved. in boxing again. In fact, if we get the opportunity in the zone, I'm going to keep calling

a scumbag over and over and over again because, you know, the, the guy, I'm sorry, I'm blacking on his name right now who, uh, who should have won that fight. Uh, that could change his life. Uh, you'd be Manny Packy. I know it was a different version of Manny Pack. Yeah, they're going to change his life. And I, I hate when that happens. You should hate when that happens too, because you fighters work hard. You put your body and minds on the line. One fight can change how millions of dollars, and it's happening in every fighter's careers. It's happened in my career. It's happening in many fighters' careers. where one judge kept you from making seven figures.

One judge kept you from getting that big fight. I can put myself in that predicament, but we're not talking about me. Every fighter can tell you a big story of where they shoulda, coulda, woulda, and didn't happen because of a judge. We were just in the fighter meetings downstairs. I don't want to bring it up. Shane Mosley, the judge is there.

Could have had your crack at Canello. I could have gotten decapitated by Canelo for a seven-figure. Paycheck. This is why I like you because you don't say things like, yeah, I could have gotten Mosey's job and I would have beaten Canello. You say, yeah, I could have gotten Mosey shot and Connoll would have kicked my ass. But it would have been for a good $1.1 million payday. Oh, it would have been nice.

All right. Two guys making good paydays are Roman Chocolatito Gonzalez and Juan Francisco Estrada this weekend. They fight the third fight of their storied rivalry ending what has been about a 10-year rivalry when you figured their first fight was back in 2012. Chocolate Tito won convincingly in 2012. It was a controversial decision last year when these two fought with Estrada getting it, but many people, myself included, thought Chocolate Tito deserved to get that decision. How are you feeling about this matchup going into the third fight? Giddy.

Buckle up, Mannix. I mean, this is, we're going to be broadcasting history. We're going to witness greatness. You know, it's going to go down in the history books as one of the great trilogies of all time. So buckle up, man. I'm going to be right next to you, sadly, and thankfully it will be next to my pal, Todd Grisham, to the left.

And we're going to be calling a classic trilogy that's going to go down as one of the greats. I mean, this is probably the comparison, the great comparison. It's probably Chiquita Gonzalez versus Michael Carball because they were flyweight. I mean, a classic trilogy, but it gets pushed aside

because they're such a lighter fighters. But in the history of trilogies, whether you're talking about, you know, Tyson Fury or Deont Wander or whether you're talking about Duran Leonard or whoever at Mickey Ward and Arturo Gadi, Marquez, Pachial, there's so many great ones. This one's going to be alongside it and we're there. We're going to have the best seats in the house.

I'm just giddy, man. I can't wait until Saturday. So what are you looking for in this fight? Because one of the things, one of the variables I've been considering is that when you think about momentum, amazingly, Chocolatito, who's 35 years old, is coming into this fight with more momentum than Estrada. Chocolatito is coming off the win over Julio Cesar Martinez, a dominant performance over a guy that was one of the best in a 112-pound division.

Whereas Estrada, his fight against Cortez back in September, like Cortez, just like we talked about with Germain Franklin, was kind of handpicked to be a guy Estrada looks good against, a shake-off-the-rust type of fight, and he struggled in that fight. He got hurt in that fight. He got cut in that fight. So when I look back at the second fight between Gonzalez and Estrada, a fight that I thought, Chuck Lattito won, and the Cortez fight, which was Estrada's next fight and his only fight since then,

I don't get the sense Estrada's coming in with much momentum. Does that matter in a matchup like this? Absolutely. Momentum matters. But Estrada, his nickname is El Gallo, you know, the rooster. And in Mexico and some other smaller countries, you know, rooster fight. fighting is legal and and roosters they have this edge to him let me give you another comparison I don't want to be politically incorrect here you don't hit me when you do this I hit people

I don't want to be politically incorrect and talk about you know rooster fighting so let's talk about thoroughbreds sea biscuit sea biscuit needed to have that one horse next to him he didn't want to be in the lead he wanted to that horse he wanted to look eye to item he wanted to say okay you ready I'm gonna give you what I got now is that all you got here I go And I'm going to take it down. He needs that. He fights to his competition. Guy Ostrada fights to his competition.

A lot of fighters are that way, whether you're great or not. You want another great rivalry. You want that C-Biscuit eye looking next to you. If you're just going to have an R. He Cortez next to he's like, okay. I struggle with guys like that. I had guys like that. Brian Vera, that was my guy that I'm going to wipe the floor with him.

Tough guy. Everyone has guys like that. Whether you're talking about the greatest or not. So I think Estrada is going to, he's fighting to his competition. And whether he got lucky with a decision on his last fight, that's irrelevant. On history books, it's 1-1. It's a trilogy, a classic trilogy, and he's fighting one of the greatest fighters of our generation. You can bet the C-Biscuit and the Gallo is going to come out,

and he needs that. He needs that rival in that competition to get the best out of him. He doesn't get motivated by Arje Cortez or any other name. He gets motivated by four division champions and the greatest of our generation, that's Chocolotito. So what does Estrada have to do to win this fight? Because we know what we're going to get from Chocolatito. He is going to apply relentless pressure.

He's going to throw over 100 punches around. He is going to try to wear you down over these 12 rounds, which he's done in his two matchups with Estrada. How does Estrada turn the tables on him in this one? He continued doing what he did the first two fights. Even the first fight where Chocolatito won, Strata was a complete unknown. He didn't have the experience that he has now,

and he still put up a damn good fight, a fantastic fight. He's, they're just stylistically, perfectly matched. So don't change nothing, Maddox. Don't change nothing. Estrada's not the type that will get it lured into a war. So we don't have to worry about that. Estrada will engage when he feels he can, he can get the best out of it. But then he'll box.

He can go back on the back foot. He's a boxer puncher. Chocolatito is a straight puncher. Come in one way. So we know his game plan. And we know that Estrada is successful on the back foot. So what should he do? More jabs.

more body shots because Chocolatito needs to be worried about getting hurt to the body. You know, the head shots, he keeps his hands up too high, you know, and I don't think Estrada has the power to penetrate those gloves. So dig down to the body and keep those elbows tucked in. So that, ring general ship, pop the jab, stay off the ropes. That's all Strata wins this decision. He doesn't knock out Chocolatito. Is it not amazing to you that Chocolatito's doing this at 35? I was amazing Calia Fife fight.

I think I was just in awe. I mean, when I watch Chocolatito, I know Alexis Serguayo is his idol, and he's in Nicaraguan as well, but I don't see Alexis Uruguayo and Chocolatito. I see Roberto Duran, another Central American grade. Guys that I've always been, you know, they've been great at Lighter Wake divisions, and they always get counted out once they go up and wait. And they keep surprising you. Roberto Duran won the middleweight championship of the world, and he's five foot seven. And he fought a beast, a monster. and I ran Barclay, six foot one.

That's what Chocolatito reminds me of, both Central Americans, but that's who he reminds me of, because it's just subtle, aggressive animals that know how to get inside and be technical, but then they have the defense to not get, you know, hit with, you know, ridiculous, big shots. They know how to stay poised in the pocket, getting aggressive,

and that's who I see whenever I watch this amazing little specimen of a fighter and Chocolatito. So, yeah, man, I'm buckle up, like I said. I'm just so ready for Saturday. And Gallo doesn't need to change anything. Chocolatito doesn't need to change anything because we're getting another classic fight. Who is this fight more important to?

Because you've got two guys that are... Chocolate Tito first ballot Hall of Famer. Gairoa, most likely a Hall of Famer. But legacy-wise, who is this fight more important to? Both. It's got to be Estrada, though, I think. It's both. It's both.

I think Estrada has already proved that he's on the elite level. He already cracked the pound for pound rankings. He's a two-division champion. He already beat Chocolatito. He's beaten everyone that's being won. Yeah, but I mean, like, I think he punches his ticket as a first ballot guy if he wins. There's nothing wrong. I don't think he win.

I don't think he... There's nothing wrong with being a second ballot guy. You're still in the Hall of Fame. He's going to be in the Hall of Fame. Yeah, but there's a distinction to it. Like there's some pride to being a first ballot Hall of Famer. And look, I think Estrada would like to be. Estrada made the point to us this week, but he's not done with this career either.

Like, he's still in his early 30s and he can still go up in weight two and win titles in that weight class. But because I don't think people believe he beat Chocolatito in that last fight, I think this fight's important. He's got great wins. He beat Soronga beside twice. He's beat the three kings. He's beat him. Quadrish. He's the only one of the four kings that's been the other three.

Chocolatito didn't beat Sorongletito. So there you go. So whether he's second ballot Hall of Fame or first, doesn't matter. He's going to be in the Hall of Fame. And Gaio, I think every fight is important to him. Like I asked him in the fighter meeting, I go, why are you successful in rematches? When a lot of fighters struggle in rematches, he says, well, you know, it sounds simple, but I just work harder and I check out what I did wrong. And I asked him, I said, so what are you going to do different in this fight in this trilogy?

He goes, get in better shape. Get in better shape. You threw over a thousand punches. I go, what? I mean, that's not what's going to change, you know. So just strategy. Well, he knows, though. And you know when you're in fights if you're not in the right condition.

He might be throwing a lot of punches, but you know when you're not in optimal. He said he didn't close out strong. And he's right. He said, he wanted to be over after the 10th round. And then he had to deal with the last two. Well, like I said, if he's going to come in better condition in this fight, then he did the last fight, I mean, this is going to be the fight of the year. I was talking to Chocleto this week.

And, you know, if he wins, there's really entertaining option for him at 115. Like you could fight the winner of the Josh Franco fight coming up over in Japan. He could fight Bam Rodriguez at some point next year. These are big money fights for him. But he told me he wanted to move to 118. No, man. Look, I know what you're going to say. And I agree with you.

Like, my nightmare for Chocolatito is if, like, in a way unifies, gives Chocolatito a fight against him in the early next year. And it's Chocolatito in a way in, like, Japan. And that ends so badly for Gonzalez, so badly that I don't want to see it. I mean, the other fights might be a bad. Unless that fight, because Chocolatito just barely cracked a million dollar payday, right? He's right around there, yeah. He's right around there, so he barely cracked it unless, and he's fought in Japan before, so I'm sure they love him out there, and they love these smaller weight classes. He's co-promoted by Mr. Honda over there, so unless they make that man an offer he can't refuse, I would say when...

Three million? Whatever it is, man, I just think they make them an offer he can't refuse, and then I would say, yeah, take it for the money, make sure this is your last fight, win-lose-draw. Go off until a sunset. You had an amazing, incredible career that everyone's going to worship the ground he walks on for the next 20 years. One loser's draw. Yeah, if he's going to take that, do it just for the money.

Because if you're going to have 50 plus fights, you come into the box. Fighters come into boxing and become world champions and to make a lot of money. This man became a world champion in four divisions, and he's made okay money, especially for Nicaragua. But to make that life-changing money,

I think it's worth of risk. When I watch Inouye just flattened Donair, that made me think, like, I don't want to see Chocolatito like that. Or worse. We've seen Chocolatito like that before. I don't want to see him in his career getting pulverized by one of the biggest punchers in that division's history. Listen, for $3 million, I would let Wilder knock me out.

I mean, well, maybe not Wilder. Now, listen, we're in this for championships and money, man, and Chocolatito, if he barely cracked the seven-figure market, if they're going to make them a ridiculous offer like that, you got to take it. We're in it for, we're price fighters, and then you've got to take that opportunity. Right. Anything to say to your fans and your final podcast?

This is my final podcast, and I mean what I say, and I meant what I mean. So I'm going to drop the mic now. We'll see you next week. And when we come back, my conversation with Tyson Fury. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith Rule of Two.

Listen to Stuff to Bole Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, Tyson Fury is the lineal WBC and Ring Magazine Heavyweight Champion. He will defend those titles on December 3rd, takes on Derek Chasora. As I was writing that, Tyson, I wondered, which of those titles, Lineal WBC Ring Magazine, means the most to you? The title of being alive and well means more to me than all of those titles put together. You know, boxing is one thing, but being healthy and alive is better than all of it put together. But all of those titles are very fantastic.

Being a linear champion, WBC champion, it's fantastic. You know, it's a great honor and a great achievement for anybody. And I wear them with pride. When you beat... You do. When you beat Vladimir Klitsko several years ago to win your first heavyweight title, titles, I guess. What was that moment like for you? It was a great moment. It was like an Everest moment. I'd reached my Everest and I've achieved all my dreams and I won every, I won every belt apart from the WBC that night. I became the unified heavyweight champion of the world. And it was like it was a gigantic, moment in my life. It was an Everest summit climbed and it was everything I dreamed of. So you're back now. Second fight this year. You have said if all goes well, you'll have three fights

next year. It wasn't too long ago, Tyson, that you were saying you're retired from boxing. What's changed for you? Nothing. I might retire after this next fight. You know, I don't know how long I've got left. I don't know what tomorrow will bring. You know, Tyson theory is a crazy mother. motherfucker. One minute he's here, next minute he's gone. I could be in Markham one minute and in Mandalay Bay the next.

Who knows? You know, I never take anything for granted. I'm just happy that I'm active now and I'm back fighting next week and looking forward to a fantastic fight and we'll see. I might get knocked out cold in that fight.

Don't know. I don't know what's going to happen. So yeah, we'll see. Just one fight at a time. And we'll see. We'll see the old dancing destroyers. Phil got a few days left in. him and we'll see what he can do so do you feel like in your mind you can walk away from boxing

or will boxing almost have to force you out no i can walk away from boxing you know um i just feel like i've got a bit more left in me to give um and we'll see we'll see what happens you know you can only take one day at time and one fight at a time and i think every fighter will know when it's done when it's over i'll see how i feel after this this fight which is aura if it's over it's over no point getting brain damage or whatever. So, you know, we'll see. This is why I just, I've come back with no, no big lofty ambitions. I just want to take one fight at a time and see where I am after each individual fight. What is, what is a retired Tyson Fury do? What, what is, what does your life look like as a

retired man? So I think I'm going to set up a used car sales. I've become a used car salesman because I'm, I'm very, I'm into cars, like I'm very passionate about cars and stuff. I always have been. I've always bought in whole cars my whole life as a kid. And I think that that would give me a purpose. You know, I don't think even if you have a trillion dollars in the bank, you can't just go sit in a beach or your feet up all day every day because there's no purpose in that life. And at 34, 35, whatever old I'm going to be when I walk away,

it's like, what do I do after that? Do we go in boxing, promoting? Do it go into whatever? I don't know. But we'll see. I'm quite passionate about cars. So maybe I have a day job like selling cars or whatever as a salesman. used car salesman, and by night, I have a vigilante job like Batman. I don't know.

I like it. Fury Automotives. I like that as your post-war fighting career. Talk about this fight coming up against Derek Chesora. You had to deal with some criticism about choosing Chisora as your opponent. Why do you think you were criticized for it? I'm not sure. It's to criticize.

It's coming from people who's never had a fight in a life. I've never won zero world titles. So that criticism doesn't really mean a lot. me to be fair. Everybody in boxing knows that it's going to be a good fight and two good fighting men both right in the top ten. And we're going to give them what they want to see.

Yeah, I think you know, you tried to make an Usik fight, you tried to make a Joshua fight. You could have made a fight against someone else that was less known, but at least this feels like a big fight in the UK. Chasora is still a big name in the UK.

Oh yeah, this is the big fight. We've sold like 68,000. and tickets already, but we're still a week out, so it's a big fight for sure. We're looking forward to putting on a great show for the fans, and everybody knows Derek, and everybody knows me in this country. Derek's like a folk hero, and so am I. So when we both get together, it's always an occasion for the fans. Last thing for you, you have gone back and forth with Anthony Joshua for a while.

Recently, you called Joshua a coward. Do you believe he's a coward? I do. I do believe he's a coward, because he had the opportunity to fight me on the 3rd of December and he declined and now I'm fighting Chazora instead so there's a lot of money involved not that money's everything because you know when you have a lot of money like Joshua has already then an extra few zeros and his bank balance won't really change his life so it's probably not about money it's more about like what does he do if he loses again and all that sort of stuff but that's not the mentality of a Spartan and I can only deal with Spartans I can't deal with businessmen

because all that business side of shit like who said what said she said this said this amount that amount this location has don't get involved I'm like how much am I getting where is it and who my fighting I've got my bag my trainers are on

and I'm ready to fucking rumble let's go that's all I want to know I don't want to know any other business options I want to know shit I want to know how much am I getting and where is it and let me at him let me knock him out and you're not messaging with that type of fighter in AJ.

You could ask this all the time, but as you sit here right now, do you believe in 2023, we'll see Fury Joshua? I don't. I just think once you're a coward, you ain't going to fight anybody. I don't think he'll fight Wilder either.

I do not think he'll fight Wilder. I don't think he'll fight me. He probably only thought Ousset because he was a light punch in Cruzeaway and he didn't think he could get knocked out or whatever. I hear he's looking to do a rematch with Dillion White. He's desperate for that rematch.

I don't know why. But yeah, so you've got to have confidence to take on the biggest challenges. And at the minute, I don't seem stepping up to the play. But again, none of my business at all what they do. My business is Derek Chazora, and I'm in the fight game, and that's what we're doing. Boom. I can't believe we might get Fury versus Wilder 4 before we get Joshua versus Wilder. I can't believe there might be a fourth fight with you and Deontay Wilder.

I know, is this crazy a lot? It's crazy, you know, but you know, you never can tell what's going to happen around the corner on heavyweight boxing. You see it so often, but you rarely see one person fight the other one four times, not since the days of like Jake Lamottor versus Sugar Obranson. Yeah, long, long time, but that did happen a lot back in those days. Tyson, appreciate your time, man. You can catch Tyson Fury December 3rd on the U.S., in the U.S. on ESPN Plus over in the UK on Paperview. Thanks for joining me, man. Always good to catch up.

Thank you. All the best. When we come back, this week's picks brought to you by Fandul. Well, are you looking to get more out of this NFL season? Now is the perfect time to download Fanduil, America's number one sportsbook. Because new customers get a no-swet first bet up to $1,000. That's free bets back if your first bet doesn't win. Just download the Fandual Sportsbook app. It's safe, secure, and super easy to use.

You can look at player props, passing, receiving, rushing yards, touchdowns, and so many more exclusive bets, like both teams, to complete their first pass attempt. That makes the first part of every game a lot more fun. Plus, Fandual even lets you combine your bets for a chance at a bigger payout at a same game parlay. Fandul is also now live in Maryland. Marylanders, make sure you get in on the action also with great offers, boosts just for

you. So don't miss your chance to get your no-swet first bet up to $1,000 in free bets when you join Fandul with promo code boxing. That's promo code boxing to let them know that I sent you. Make every moment more with Fandul an official sports betting partner of the NFL. Time now for this week's picks brought to you by Fandul, and I almost had a huge weekend last weekend. I went big, and I told you to go big on Jermaine Franklin against Dillion White,

and by like the eighth round, I was sitting. they're counting my money. I was sitting there thinking, what am I going to do with my winnings off a 13 to 1 underdog? Because I told you that Jermaine Franklin was a live dog. And I told you that Dillian White was not the fighter he used to be after getting knocked out two of the last three times. I'm not upset about the decision because I thought the right guy won, thought two judges scored it wrong. But I thought the right guy won that fight. Still, oh, those are the same. the miss that just kill you. Had Jermaine Franklin for the win, that would have been a big bet. But I do it all over again because that was worth throwing some money behind. That was worth

taking a shot at. This weekend, a little more high profile. You've got Juan Francisco Estrada, Chocolatito Gonzalez, part three, super flyweight title on the line in Arizona. Chocolatito right now is a minus 225 favorite over at Fandul. That's the bet that I like. Estrada plus 172. This has the potential to be a very, very, close fight, but I like the momentum that Gonzalez is coming into this fight with. He is coming off a dominant performance against Julio Cesar Martinez, whereas in his last fight, Estrada, he struggled with a lesser fighter in R.G. Cortez. So I like Gonzalez to win. How does he win? I like him winning by decision. This is where you can make a little bit more money. Minus 105 for Gonzalez by

decision according to Fanduil. These guys have fought 24 rounds together. There have been moments where both of them have been stunned, but no real moment when either of them has been hurt. I think they know each other well enough by now that this fight is going to go to a decision. So take Gonzalez to win, take him to win by decision. If you want to throw another bet in there, take this fight going the distance. It's another one that doesn't have the greatest of odds, but I think this is a mortal lock to go the full 12 rounds. Those are my picks brought to you by Fandul. That's it for this week's episode.

My thanks to Sergio Amora and Tyson Fury for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts. And I'll see you next week. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest,

SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing huge. human potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.