The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Conor Benn is Back

Episode Date: February 2, 2024

Joining Mannix this week is Eddie Hearn. Mannix and Hearn discuss Jaime Munguia’s win over John Ryder, if Munguia should be a serious contender for Canelo, Conor Benn’s return this weekend, DAZN��s future and more; later (6:18), Benn sits down with Mannix to talk (another) U.S. fight, his ongoing battles with the British board, who he wants to fight in ’24, more (29:01). #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me.

Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Cliford Show on the I-Heard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast, And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

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Or somebody punch him in the face. Anthony Joshua is a composed and ferocious finisher. Watch this. Hosted by S.I's Chris Manix. That was my moment. Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Manix.

This is Boxing with Chris Manix. It's part of the Volume Sports Podcast Network. I want to welcome in everybody that is listening on the podcast feed. If you are not a subscriber, get over to Apple Podcasts to Spotify, hit that subscribe button. Make sure you get this podcast in your feed every single week. You may also get multiple podcasts. If you saw or listened to the pod earlier this week with Corey Erdman, where we talked about Jaime Mungia's win over John Ryder, the state of the super middleweight division.

That's something I'm going to try to do a lot more of because I want to react to big events on Saturday in a little bit more of a timely manner whenever it's necessary. This main pod usually comes out towards the end of the week. I'm going to start trying to do more pods early in the week that react to something big that happens over the weekend. There may even be rapid fire pods that come out right after a big event. So make sure you subscribe. It's a long way of saying that.

so you don't miss any of those episodes. This main pod this week is a great one. Eddie Heirn, Matroom Boxing, Matchroom Boxing USA. He is promoting an event in Las Vegas, headlined by Connor Ben going up against Peter Dobson. I talked to Eddie about the Jaime Mungia, John Ryder fight, the future of John Ryder.

Why he thinks that Jaime Mungia is a great candidate to face Canela Alvarez. We also talk about Edgar Berlanga, a bunch of other topics about the matchroom universe that I get into with Eddie Hearn. A little bit later, Conor Ben, he joins me from Vegas to talk about, well, why he's fighting in Vegas. If you remember, Connor Ben, after he won that fight back in September, was pretty adamant.

He wanted his next fight to be in the UK. It is not. It is in Las Vegas. It is against Peter Dobson. And, look, everybody wants to fight in Vegas. But I'm sure Connor Ben wants to fight in the UK. So we talked to Connor about why that is not happening. We talked to him about why he thinks, or if he's optimistic, I guess,

that a big fight in the UK can happen later this year. And look at the landscape. The big names at 147, 154. Who does Connor Ben want to fight next? That's what I'm going to get into with Connor Ben later in the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts. Also, fire away questions.

Something else I've been kicking around is doing... Mailbag podcast. I take some of your questions that come in on social media. You can also leave questions on the review page on Apple Podcasts. I'll be scanning that from time to time. So fire off those questions. We'll do mailbag podcast periodically over the next couple of weeks and months. So stick around.

Without further ado, here's my conversation with Eddie Hearn. All right. Eddie Hearn is here. Matchroom boxing. Got a show this weekend in Las Vegas. Connor Ben, against Peter Dobson. That's a fight that you can watch in the U.S.

in the afternoon. UK in primetime live on DeZone. And Eddie, I just saw you in Arizona this past weekend. I was thinking about this. You and I did a sit down with Oscar, Delojoa, you and Oscar going back and forth, you know, talking how much money you had

and how much, a little money I have. And, you know, it was a pretty civil conversation. I thought it was constructive. And then like a day later, I'm on boxing scene and I'm reading like a headline like Delahoyas says Hearn doesn't have the stable to do a five on five matchup. So it feels like all the good vibes were limited just for that room. I was kind of disappointed. Yeah, I think that, you know, it was when I was praising Oscar and talking about the DeZone and Matron v. Golden Boy at the press conference,

obviously I couldn't see him behind me when I was speaking. But when I watched it back, He didn't really look that keen on me speaking or actually on the concept. And he said a lot of great things last week, but, you know, couldn't avoid a few jabs and digs. But that's all right. I don't mind. It's not going to stop me trying to make fights. But, yeah, hopefully his actions are as genuine as his words. We'll see over the next few months, no doubt.

Hey, he made an entertaining one last weekend. Hyman Mungia against John Ryder. Let me ask you first. Tough loss for John Ryder. How is he doing now? And look, he was pretty public that if he couldn't get a win in a fight like this, he was probably going to walk away. Have you talked to him at all about what his future might be? A little bit after the fight.

You know, I think he says he's going to have a think about it this week. You know, he wants to operate at the top level. And he's had a great run. You know, he beat Daniel Jacobs. He beat Zach Parker, lost to Canelo in front of 70,000, lost him on gear, made a lot of money in the process. And, you know, he's, I say he's overperformed from where, you know, he's, you know, first started. But at the same time, you know, there's arguments that he could have won the fight with Callum Smith, become a world champion, could have got the decision against Billy Joe.

And, you know, so he's really earned his stripes. Mungir was very impressive. I think he's a great asset to boxing. I think he's very exciting. But was too good for John on the night. You know, I think John, maybe his punch resistance isn't quite what it was, but still took some great shots and take nothing away from Mungir. I thought he was outstanding. And, you know, it was a really good fight. Yeah, and I don't know that you were all that impressed with Mungia coming into the fight, but I think you left that experience more impressed. I mean, just briefly talking to you in the ring right afterwards, I think you were pretty sold on him. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think, you know, the reason that I wasn't sold is because he's 42 and O and his best wins, Liam Smith at 154 and

Deravenchenko at 160, really, who, you know, he's a faded fighter. So you start to think is it all high? You know, he's never really fought anyone and then steps up and really does a great job on John Ryder, which shows me this guy is for real. I think a lot of the stuff that I thought John would be effective at. He wasn't able to be, you know, he wasn't as productive on the inside because Mungir was very strong on the inside. His output, we knew he's excellent and it was again.

Got a great chin. And I think he's going to be in great fights. I mean, I think that there's no skin in the game for me with, we've, we've, we've, Canello against Mungia, I'd like to see it. I think it's a great fight. Two Mexicans, all-action. And if I'm Canelo Alvarez, I'm liking that fight. But at least you've got a young, ambitious, all-action fighter that's going to really bring the fight to Canelo Alvarez.

And I, for one, would love to see it. But I also want to see Mungir against Belanga. You know, I think that's a great interim fight, if you like, to decide who's going to get that Canello-Avarez fight. On the subject of Canello, though, do you... Outside of David Benavides, who I think we'd all agree is the most qualified guy to fight Canelo, did that win by Mungia in your mind push him to the top of the list? Like you said, you have no skin in the game when it comes to that particular matchup, but does that push him to the time? I think so. Look, I look at it and say, let's be honest, who wants to see Canello against Charlie?

Like, the fight with a brother was dead. you know he hasn't boxed for two years but I just like what would you rather see that or a Mungia fight like a Mungia fight is just

absolute all action you know if I'm promoting I want to make the Mungia fight two Mexicans going at it and I think I think his years should look like Mungia and Benavides you know

so and I think it might end up looking like Charlo against Crawford. Sorry, Charlo and Crawford, you know? So, I don't know. I think Mungia's got to say in those big fights. Honestly, like if Belanga beats McCrory, I think DeZone and Matrim and Goldenboy have got to be saying,

Mungia against Belanga, MSG, San Diego, wherever you want, this massive fight. And it's so much fun that fight as well. I'm all in. Do you have any insight into what's going on with Canelo these days? because I think a lot of people have seen the Amazon deal and wondered how that impacts the top guys involved with PBC right now. They just announced a fight involving Keith Derman and Tim Zoo. But Canello's out there and you know as well as anyone.

There are big guarantees that come with a Canelo Alvarez contract. Do you have any insight to where that relationship stands? Not really. No. I mean, look, in the Canelo business, you have to be willing to put a sizable guarantee down. of which you're always playing roulette with, quite honestly. You always want that guarantee to come from somebody else, and in a normal capacity, it will come from the broadcaster.

But sometimes a broadcast deal won't include a guarantee. It will just include a revenue share, which is what I understand the Amazon deal is. So all of a sudden, if you have a sizable guarantee with Canello Alvarez, and you're on a revenue share of a platform that's not done pay-per-view boxing before, it's squeaky bum time, you know, and you've got to have deep pockets to say, look, if it doesn't work, you know, we're going to be losing a lot of money here. So Canello's in a sweet spot. You know, he always is.

He always makes sure he's looked after, and he's a clever businessman with a good team of people around him. He don't care. He don't care if it's on Amazon, DeZone, Disney Channel. He just gets his guarantee and quite right, too. So, you know, he'll be chilled waiting for his news and he'll fight anybody. And obviously, as always, the fighter, not necessarily the fighter, but the team and Eddie and, you know, the people around him will want the easiest fight possible for the most amount of money. So how the game works.

And, you know, the promoter will want the hardest fight possible, or certainly the fight that's going to deliver the biggest numbers to box off that guarantee. And if that's me, I'm making Heim and Mungerian, mate, or Benavides. Well, we've got a pretty sizable American audience, Eddie. And I'm sure a lot of them are going to be wondering what squeaky bum time is so often used over in the UK. Nervous. Okay, we're going to use the UK. The super middleweight division has gotten pretty hot in the last couple of weeks, where it's been one good performance after another.

Christian Mabili, great performance a few weeks ago. Hyman Mungia, great performance last weekend. Your guy, Edgar Berlanga, goes February 24th on DeZone. Is part of your message to him going into that fight going to be, hey, you can't just win. Like, you've got to win in an impressive manner. Yeah, and by the way, Padraig McCrory is a good fire, and he can really punch as well. It's going to be a really explosive fight. But yeah, but Belanga needs to go in there and knock him out in style and stand on the turnbuckle and say,

I want Mungia, I want Benavides, I want Canelo. Because all of those fights are massive if he can get people excited. So that's really what we're looking for from him. you know, you've got Diego Pacheco coming up fast on the ranks. You know, he's a younger fighter that those guys aren't really going to want to fight yet because they'll say, oh, he doesn't have the name value, etc, etc., but it won't be long. And then Billy as well, and by the way, Diego Pacheco said to me, I'll fight and Billy.

I love that fight. You know, I think Billy's all action. Great, great style. So there's a lot of guys that are just, you know, really raring to go in those big fights. And the more statements they make, the easier it will be for us to really scream and shout. Are these super middleweight fights you're talking about, do they feel more makeable because you're not talking about the biggest of names yet? I mean, Mbili is excellent and well-known in Canada, but not a huge name. You throw Eric Bazzini in that mix.

He picked up a win in the same week as Bungia. Like, do these fights feel makeable in 2024? Yeah, I just feel like they're the kind of fights you need to make to put yourself in that position. Like, and Benavides has done it a little bit as well. You know, Benavides, who hadn't really beaten anyone of no. you know, listen probably to the criticism of you need to really beat someone and earn your shot at Canelo Albrez. Well, he went and beat Caleb Plan and then beat Demetrius Andre.

Like, you can't really knock it, really. And Jaime Mungir went and stopped John Ryder. Okay, that's a solid statement. But like if Belanger can make a statement against McCorough and if they can fight each other, you really can't deny the credentials of those guys. And the same with Pacheco. You know, they'll want a big fight to make people go. Fair enough, he's earning it, he's ready.

And, you know, you've got to keep winning. You've got to keep winning and start. Do you think Berlanga wants those fights? Because the criticism of him when he was with top rank was they couldn't do a deal where he'd commit to the big fights. He comes over to match room, in part because he believed a Canelo fight was going to be there for him. But with Canello, presumably off the table, do you think you can make that big fight with

Burlago? I mean, like, you know, if he comes through McCrory, we will be saying, to him, there's only a certain amount of fights that you can take. And it's the ones that people want to see. And that includes him, Billy, that includes the Czechos, that includes particularly Mungia, you know, Benavides, plant, like all of those fights. Edgar's got to be in those fights. And listen, he's going to be rewarded for them financially.

And, you know, Keith Connolly will make sure of that. So, you know, I think it's a situation where really, if he comes through McCrory, he has to be in a huge fight next. And I just feel that if Mungia is not going to get Canello next, that fight, San Diego, as I said, New York, that's a massive Mexican-Portarican fight, and his fireworks, two all-action guys, and I think it would be a massive fight for this ball. Yeah, I think you do a big gate on that as well, whether it is San Diego or New York. All right, let's talk about Connor Ben back on Saturday against Peter Dobson.

It was back in September, Eddie, that you got Connor back into the ring against Rodolfo Orozco, got a win, you know, shook off the rust there. how surprised are you that we're here talking about Connor Ben fighting in Vegas against a lesser opponent and not fighting in the UK against a big name opponent? Yeah, it's been frustrating. I mean, you know, we all expect him to fight Chris Eubank Jr. in February. And when that fell through, we really had like five weeks till the date in February. I didn't want to wait till April, May.

I wanted to get him active. And, you know, Pete Dobson was there. He's been scheduled to fight a lot of our top guys. guys. He's 154 pounder. He's undefeated. He talks a lot. But he's a level below the names that Connor Ben wants to be fighting. So he's really under pressure to make the statement. I like the activity. I love the fact that he's getting to headline in Las Vegas. You know, it's a dream for any UK fighter. So he's got to look good on Saturday. Dobson's been talking a great game. But when the lights hit, like Conner Ben is one of the most ferocious, entertaining fighters out

there pound for pound. He just lets everything go. He's so much like he's. father and it's going to be a really entertaining fight. And we're under pressure after this to make those big fights, really. Obviously, we hope that the situation gets cleared up in February for him to fight in the UK. That'll make it so easy for us to make big fights. But if not, we'll make a big fight in America. You know, he's free to fight over here or anywhere in the world in that fact. So, but he's got to look good on Saturday night. And I think it'll be an entertaining fight. I've heard you use that word a lot, hope when it comes to Connor fighting back in the UK. Are you optimistic?

I know there's a hearing coming up in February, but are you optimistic that it gets resolved in February? Yeah, it has. I mean, if he wins the appeal, like at that stage, he would have won three cases, back to back without losing any. But it's been nearly two years since this happened.

It's so bizarre, and it's, you know, there's a lot of ego and, you know, a lot of, just, I think, poor decisions all round. And like I said, Conner can fight anywhere in the world. just not in Britain under the British boxing border control, having won the case. So, you know, get this win, win that appeal in February, and then make a huge stadium fight in April or May.

Look, Connor has been clear he wants big fights sooner rather than later. If you are fighting in the U.S., and look, he wants to fight at Welterweight, he can fight at junior middleweight, probably. If you have to make a big fight for Connor in the U.S., in your mind as someone that puts these fights together, What are some of the realistic options for him in 2024? I mean, the fight that we liked, but obviously it's difficult to lure him away, is Marios Barros. I think that's a great fight.

He's WBC number one. Connor talks about Boots. He talks about Crawford. These are like, these are fights that you need to aspire to. But if you're fighting Peter Dobson, you've really got to annihilate this guy on Saturday. And there's a long way between those levels and boots and Crawford. you know a virgil ortees fight is a tremendous fight very dangerous but again the kind of fight that you want to see connor ben in you know uh ugas perhaps uh welter like any of those guys that are in the

top ten stanionis is a fight that's been discussed as well like he's capable of fighting and beating all those guys um i would like for him to make a huge stadium fight in the uk but if not you'll see him in america against one of those big names you didn't put devon hayney in that mix and Devin. Yeah, Devon Haney, you know, even Ryan Garcia. Yeah. You know, let's talk about those two then, because you were just around Golden Boy officials for a week,

Oscar, Eric Gomez, the people that make decisions over there. Is there any forward progress towards making a fight between Devin Haney and Ryan Garcia? Yeah, I think the discussions have started again. I mean, I'm due to meet Bill this week as well to talk through it. I think it's the fight to make. You know, it's the fight for Desoomé. is to fight for Devin. I think it's the fight for Ryan.

I know it's a very tough fight for him. But, you know, my advice to Devin Haney is get that fight made. You know, it's a mega fight for him. Ryan has got his perceptions and ideas of his value, which is difficult to make a fight against. But he is a big star and that fight does big numbers. So hopefully they can get some progression. And I don't see many other options for Ryan or Devin in terms of big, big fights.

So there's one that I think can get made quite comfortably if everyone's sensible. Last couple of things for you. One of your other fighters have been dealing with outside the ring issues is Alicia Baumgartner. The WBC effectively cleared her. The WBO did the same kind of piggybacking. I've been told that the ABC is likely going to take her off the suspension list sometime in the next week. Where do you stand on Alicia? He has not fought since last summer, in the aftermath of those positive drug tests.

Are you still looking to work with her? Are you looking to make big fights with her? Where do you stand on her? Yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, she still has a fight with us under a contract. And I think the most frustrating thing about the situation has been the lack of action or investigation from the commission. But, you know, Alicia has gone out and she's proved her innocence by those governing bodies. But until the commission make a decision, it's very different.

like normally the commission will make the decision first and then the governing bodies will act after that. So this is kind of a reverse situation where, you know, we haven't really been able to do anything because we await for the guidance of the commission. You know, she's gone out, she's done a great job to, you know, go through the science and present that to the governing bodies. They're happy. But the commission have to be happy for the career to resume.

And, you know, like you say, that was like July. you know, I've got no, August, September since the results come in. So we want a decision and she now wants to resume her career, having gone through that process with the other governing bodies. Yeah, I couldn't agree more on the Michigan Commission. It's like they have a caller ID of whether it's someone from Baumgartner's Camp, Lou DeBella representing the other side, or media members. They don't want to talk to anybody. You know, sometimes these commissions are afraid to make a decision. Yeah. You know, they really need to. That's their job. And, you know, hopefully it's in line with the other decisions from the respective governing bodies. Yeah. Last question for you, and this may come off as a little naval gazing, giving it's you and I talking about it, but you're entering the sixth full year of this de zone deal.

Do you still believe in the model? Do you still believe this is the recipe for long-term success in boxing? Because we have seen a lot of upheaval in the last couple of years, last couple of months, really, with Showtime's exit, Amazon's entry. We don't know what's going to happen with ESPN. The question I have is, do you still believe this is the right model for boxing? But honestly, if it wasn't, we wouldn't be having this conversation six years in. You know, how many times have people said, DeZone won't last.

The zone's over, yet still the schedule keeps improving. You know, the fights get bigger. And for me, DeZone have established themselves as the global home of boxing. It's such a unique product where you can watch championship fights every single week from all over the world. you're always under pressure to keep maintaining the schedule, keep staging big fights. But you're seeing those fights, whether it's Furiyuzic,

whether it's Fury and Ghanu, Aja against Anganu, Wilder, the day of reckoning. All those fights are on the zone. And, you know, you've got Ryan Garcia potentially against Devon Haney. You're always under pressure to make the big fights. But I think now the zone is in the best position

it's ever been in financially, in America, and also from a subscriber point of view, from a respect point of view, from customers. And, you know, for me, it's the premier outlet for boxing. I'm rivaled. Well, big one this weekend on his own. Carter Ben against Peter Dobson,

afternoon fight in the U.S. prime time in the UK. Eddie, you can roll in, like, right from the breakfast buffet to see the first fight. I know, it's very unique. It's very unique. I think the fight started like 9.30 or 10 a.m., so, you know, it's going to be unique. But, yeah, looking forward to it. All right, Eddie, I appreciate your time, man.

Cheers, mate. See you later. Bye. And when we come back, my conversation with Connor Ben. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast,

The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun,

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welterweight, junior welterweight, middleweight for the right fight, I'm sure. He takes on Peter Dobson on Saturday. That will be an afternoon fight in the US, prime time in the UK, live on DeZone.

So what is the official wait for this fight, Connor? Because I know you've moved back and forth a little bit over last few fights. Yeah, this fight's a 150. Yeah, just 150 for this one. What's it free? I'm over,

the 147 limit. What's your, what's your plan then for yourself? Are you trying to get back down to 147? Are you open to whatever the best fight is out there? What's kind of in your mind on that? I think, you know, I won the World Tower 147. I could have made 1447 for this fight.

But, you know, since there's nothing on the line, why not do it 150? So for me, yeah, I see my career, you know, moving forward to 1447, unless, you know, there's a big, big fight that the public demand a 154 or 160. I've got one for you at 154.

We'll get to that in a couple of minutes. You're fighting in Vegas. Prime time in the UK, afternoon in the US, which means like instead of people coming from a nice dinner, they might be rolling in for the breakfast buffet to get there for the early part of that car. It's probably been a long time for you since you fought this early the day, hasn't it?

I don't think I've ever fought this early in the day. But it's a blessing, you know, for my fans to be able to watch it at 10.30 p. approximately UK time. It's only right that we do that for the supporters, no. So explain to me the last few months in your life because I stood there in the ring with you after you beat Orozco in your last fight.

And you were pretty clear that while you liked the opportunity to fight in America, you wanted to get back in the UK. What is the biggest reason why you're not fighting in the UK for this fight? It's more legal issues. I'd say with Matrum or we prefer to build the name, build a profile up in America during this period. So it makes sense to do these fights in Vegas, Orlando,

we don't know where it's next yet. But, you know, all the World Tiles are over here and all the top World Warweights are over here in America. So, you know, as a team, we chose to sit down and we know that this is the way forward to capture the Worldweight titles over here. Is it, are you happy with this plan? Is this kind of you on board with all this? Yeah, I mean, listen, the Ben name's familiar right here in the States.

So for me, it's nothing but a blessing to be able to headline in Vegas, fighting Orlando. I thought in the New York Coliseum when I was maybe 10 and 0. So it is a dream. It is a blessing. I feel like I'm doing a little American tour. Yeah, Orlando and then Vegas. That is a American tour.

Are you optimistic, though, that you're going to get back and fighting in the UK sooner rather than later? Most definitely. By the end of Feb, I reckon, this should all be concluded. And that chapter, horrible chapter in my book finally closed. Yeah, and you've talked at length about that chapter. You and I have talked at length about that chapter. I've heard you say this in previous interviews this week. Like, there are some people that are just never going to believe you. There are some people that are going to believe you full-throatedly. Have you kind of accepted that's just how it is that you know you're never going to be able to convince everybody yeah definitely

it was that was the hardest thing for me to accept out of everything not how much i've spent not how bad the publicity's been nothing has been harder to accept than the fact that some will believe and some will never believe and some will find an excuse for my success or that was the hardest thing to except I was thinking, I was driving the other day and I was just sitting a car and I'm just driving. I'm just like, I wish people could just see. Like, I wish people could just know. Like, I don't know how I wish someone could just see and actually know I'm innocent. Like completely, not even, not even like even thought about.

Never even heard of it. Never nothing. I wish people could just see and how people, how I would have been, how badly I was treated. How about how badly. someone innocent was treated, but nothing. You know, for complete, for no wrongdoing at all. Nothing but diligent with everything I take

throughout my whole career, you know, nothing. You know, just been loyal to the game, dedicated, married to the game. How would people respond if people have just seen and just know, maybe some evidence is going to come out in, you know, two, three, four years

where this substance is proven to be contaminated, with what we're consuming. When did you kind of come to that understanding? Was there a moment for you where you said, you know what, I'm just not going to convince anybody or everybody, no matter how hard I try?

I mean, some days, some days you don't even think about it. And other days, it's like, I can't believe this has been something I've had to accept. You know, so you're never like really, like, I'm still healing.

You know, it's something I'm still healing about, you know, I mean, you know in September how emotional I got in the interview we've done. It's still like, it takes time to heal from something like this, I believe, because it's not like I don't care about my image. And I'm not, I don't just go missing. I don't know.

I'm very vulnerable. I wear my heart on my sleeve. I am what I am. And people know I am why I am, which is why this has been so bad. Because should I have listened to the lawyers and just gone missing? Outside, out of mind. Should I have just not retaliation? should I not have protested and fought it and you know you know fight it too for now

then it probably would have gone away sooner but I'm just not that guy and you know listening to the legal advice I just couldn't stay a quiet while my name my image my character my son I'm you know my son it's going to one day see all this and me not fight for my innocence you know it's been the hardest fight but you know I'm still undefeated I won the end of the first hearing you know so we're the ring matches on and, you know, no doubt I'm going to win the rematch. So you got back in the ring in September. What did it feel like to be back in the ring after almost a one-year layoff?

Do you know what? It's mad because I never, I never, I'm a fire. So I go in there and I do what I can do regardless. Like, even on my sick day, even if I'm like 50%, or I'm ill or I'm still very confident. Like even if I'm not 100% of my explosiveness, my power, my, agility, my athleticism is enough.

My boxing brain is enough to outweigh any way I may be feeling. But on fight night, it hit me. The whole thing hit me. And the whole it just hit me in their changing room.

And I actually had to lay down. I've never done that. And my cousin who's sitting here now was like, that's strange because I thought that was weird because I've never seen you do that. Normally I'm like, go, where's the ringbell? You know, whereas I had to lay down,

I was absolutely exhausted before the fight. I said, Tom, I need to lay down. And I lay down, I fell asleep for maybe 20 minutes while my gloves are on, you know, all taped up, ready to go. And I just said, I'm exhausted. Shad, I think it was more mentally for me. It was a mental thing.

When I meant, the fight for me was mental than physical. Although it was a hard fight. I mean, he's a tough Mexican, you know, he's a big guy. But the fight was up here for me. And I feel very differently about this fight. And in the ultimate irony, Orozco tested positive for a banned substance after your fight. Did you have, I mean, was your reaction different, given what you've gone through to learning of his positive test, then maybe it would have been before you've gone through what you have?

when listen when anyone fails if i mean unless you've gone through it when anyone's failed a drug test and you know they've got cleared or whatever you go yeah yeah all right okay no yeah we know you know so when everyone's failed a drug test i used to be the guy that used to go well that's it you know like you've been caught just own it and that was what was so hard is i was so harsh on those people in my head, be never know what's around the corner.

So I've learned something massive out of this. I've learned a lot out of this because you shouldn't be so quick to judge, wait until you find the evidence. Science doesn't lie. If someone's willing to spend hundreds and thousands on proving their innocence, how can you say they're guilty? I've not spent hundreds of thousands on lawyers to get me off. I've spent hundreds of thousands on scientists, flown scientists here, flying scientists. is there to find out how. You got to remember, I never knew,

I never knew if this was going to be proven. I never, but all I knew I was innocent. So there must be a mistake. There must be a reason. They must, well, I haven't taken it. So there must be a reason. If they can solve murder cases from 20 years ago because of DNA, they can definitely tell

if there's been any abnormalities in my body over the past six months. And that was what I kept thinking to myself, that science is going to save me. here. The science is going to save me. But the court public opinion, by the time we had the evidence, people had already made up their mind and the decision people had already, who cares if I'm innocent

now? You know, the damage has been done. And that was what was hard. So with a Roscoe, I mean, it's half of me, like, I'm not going to be like, if he was taking it, it would make sense as to why he stood up to the shots he did. Took a lot of shots. I wouldn't even say he took a lot, but he took heavy shots. Heavy, yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't even say there was like a lot,

but when I threw them, I connected. And it's like you'd see him go, and then all of a sudden he was all right. Like, he looked gone. I'd look at him and he looked gone, and then all of a sudden, it's all right, and he's back together. Which now doesn't come as a surprise to me

if he was taking EPO, you know, but I'm not going to put that down to the reason because we don't know the evidence. We don't know the facts, but what I do know is anyone who I've hit with them shots haven't got back up. So, I mean, I give him the benefit of the doubt, and I pray that this and he's got family and kids,

so I pray that if he is innocent, this gets cleared up and he's able to get back fine if he's guilty, he banned him for four years. Do you, I know you still have to clear up the stuff in the UK, but you fight in September, you're back here in February. Do you feel like you're in a way back on, track with your career? It's hard because I feel like

still a burden, man. Still a burden. Still a burden. Still heavy on me. You know, and I feel like until this case is concluded, I can't see a future. Although I'm fighting and I prepare for fighting on the same. I am mentally, it's hard to say. I mentally won this just done.

Like, that's like I just desperately won this finished and this chapter closed. but right now all I can do is control what I can control and that's why I'm looking at this stay in the gym stay working stay grafting say disciplines stay dedicated anything else it's just going to give me resilience and strength when all this is cleared

I'll be able to be clear you know like mentally because there's so much just still before I let you go I was in Arizona this past weekend and we filmed some stuff with the zone about your fight. Barry Jones was there. Sergio was there. And we talked about your future. And to me, the best fight for Connor Ben and for boxing. And I know you got unfinished business with Chris Eubank. You want to win a welterweight title. But give me Connor Ben Virgil Ortiz. That's what I want to see. We had Virgil Ortiz fight just a few weeks ago. He's out there saying, hey man,

I want a big fight. I know you badly want a big fight if a Virgil Ortiz fight was presented to you. And if the was right because I know it has to be right. How do you feel about that particular fight? No problem. You know, like when people do the measures, if you keep, you know, big up Virgil Ortiz and big up Jaron Ennis, but yet when I thought Samuel Vargas just after Virgil Ortiz and be in Waimore convincingly or when I thought Van Herden just before Jaron Ennis, you guys are tipping these guys to be pound for pound grace, future pound for pound grace. But then

Connor Ben, with no amateur experience, isn't on their level. But yeah, I've just done the same thing, if not better.

So it's like, when people say, oh yeah, but you're not really for them, he's a killer, he's a killer, he's this.

What about the guy who beats them more commensally, more ferocious, you know, more devastating with the power shot. So any of them

names I can mention, they don't mention my name. You know, they never mention mine. I mentioned this. And these are the fights the British public won. The public won, the public can get him.

Devin Haney, Barrios, before it was Eugas, Thurman, there was Paciel, there was Brooke, Eubank, Liam Smith. So it's like, I'm here. I'm ready. Just let me know. Let me know when. And how much, of course. Obviously.

You got to know how much is in that pot. Well, Connor, good to see you, man. Glad to see you back in the ring. February 3rd, live on. DeZone, Vegas, afternoon fight in the U.S., prime time in the UK. Good luck on Saturday, Connor, and I appreciate your time, as always. Thank you. Pleasure.

That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Eddie Hearn and Connor Ben for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcast. And I'll see you next week. Thank you so much. I go sleep. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite, unhumored me with Robert Smigel.

friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

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A win is a win. I don't care what you'll say. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

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