The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - EMERGENCY PODCAST: Fury KOs Wilder in an instant classic

Episode Date: October 10, 2021

Chris sits down with DAZN broadcaster and former boxer Sergio Mora for an emergency reaction podcast. They break down Tyson Fury's win over Deontay Wilder and discuss what is next for both fighters. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Emergency podcast time. First time we're going live on YouTube, Chris Mannix, what's illustrated, the volume, of course. And Sergio Mora, the former junior middleweight champion, joining me on the podcast. I am in Las Vegas. I was just ringside at Deontay Wilder, Tyson Fury. Fury wins by 11th round knockout.

Fight of the year front runner by far. A lot to unpack in this fight. But Sergio, just give me your first and overall, first impressions of Wilder. going down against Fury. I don't know if you can hear that, but that's applause. I mean, if I could stand up here, I would give him a sand ovation. That was a classic.

Manix, that was a classic. Wilder went 0, 2 and 1 in a trilogy, in a winless trilogy. But we're going to be talking about it because it was exciting, man. And, you know, talking, leading up to this, I didn't think it was needed. But in some way, boxing needed this, there's just two big men slugging it out. And my first impression was this was a very winnable fight for Wilder. This was a fight where Fury could have lost. And just Wilde didn't take advantage of that.

So this was the worst fury that he could have saw, and this was the best Wilder we could have saw, and it didn't happen. What a fight. Well, hold on. I disagree with that. I disagree with it was the worst fury we could have seen. And I also disagree with the fact that it would you say

it's the best Wilder we could have seen. Now, let's start with Wilder. Wilder came out, and he was doing the things he talked about doing in the build of the fight. He was following the lead of Malik Scott. He was throwing the jab to the body more. He was throwing right hands to the body. He was dedicated to that body attack. That was fine.

But one of the things I said, Sergio, to you on this podcast, to you on the DeZone Boxing show, I wrote it in print, the muscle. that Deonté Wilder was carrying was not going to be good for him. Deonté Wilder came in at 238 pounds, and he believed that 238 pounds would make him stronger, more effective, more durable. I didn't see it. I'd talk to a lot of fighters who had told me muscle makes you tired. It makes you heavy.

And you could see, like, end of that second round. I'm sitting next to a couple of riders there, and we're looking at each other going, is Deonti Wilder tired? is he fatigued? So I just thought that proved to be. He might have lost anyway. Probably would have. Fury, I think it's a cut above him.

But I thought that was a mistake. And I thought that led to him being so tired for most of that fight that it ultimately cost him. You know what gets he tired more than big bulging muscles, missing big wild shots. That's what got wild. They're tired missing those big shots. And the fact that he was able to drop Fury

and he was so animated, the adrenaline came up and he went for the knockout, that wears you out when you don't knock out your opponent. And look, it wasn't the worst theory, but it wasn't the best version of theory. The head movement was there's an upper body movement, was it there. The best punch he was throwing it and hurting Wilder was the jab, the power jab.

He wasn't throwing that enough. The footwork wasn't there. The combinations, he had flashes of it, but it wasn't the best version of the Gypsy King, and it was the best version of Wilder. We saw a little hints of the strategy he was trying to implement and the raw power was there, the hunger was there. But he's always going to be one step behind Fury, one punch behind Theory. And this was the best chance for Deonti Wilder to beat Tyson Theory.

And it was almost there. That's what made it so exciting. It was almost there. But he was just a little bit behind because he's just not good enough to beat the Gypsy King. And it's sad to say, but it was an exciting trilogy that he went 02 and 1. one. Yeah, so we get into the third round of this fight and Tyson Fury puts Deontay Wilder down for the first time with the right hand. Wilder, as I said, look gassed at that point. I thought it was only a matter of time before Fury knocked him out. And then the fourth round comes around,

Sergio. And Deontay Wilder drops Tyson Fury two times. And you can make a strong argument that Tyson Fury was saved by the bell. I mean, the clock ran out for Wilder come in and go for that third, perhaps final knockdown. Maybe, maybe not. However you want to look at it. What were you thinking when Wilder put Fury down those two times? I thought Fury was getting a little bit too aggressive. He was coming forward a little bit too much, getting comfortable blocking those big, right hands of Wilder just with his hands up. You don't do that. You don't do that with Deonté Wilder. You give him the head movement, which is what Fury did in the first and the second fight. He didn't do that this fight. He just was aggressive. He was seen forward. He was a little,

Both of them were tired, but this was a lazy version of Fury. It wasn't that hungry, athletic gypsy king that we're used to seeing. You know, there was a little bit missing. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. When have you seen a athletic gypsy kick? I mean, he's been at lighter weights, but he has not been athletic. He is fluid as a boxer, fast-handed as a boxer, moves his head really well. But that spare tire is always around his midsection.

Just depends on how big it gets. in between fights. I don't think he's ever really been athletic. That looked a lot like the usual Tyson Fury have seen the last couple of fights. No, no, just because he's out of shape doesn't say he's not athletic. You don't need to have muscles to be fluid. I mean, that's what Phelior is known for, for his upper body movement, his ring IQ, the fact that he knows how to land the jab, his aggression, his intelligence. He had a little bit of all that right there, but it was just a little lazy. It wasn't as sharp as he normally is and the upper body movement wasn't there for me and that's what gives wilder's so much

trouble trying to pin down that upper body movement you had the right idea of going to the to the to the belly with that jack i like that strategy but it only happened for about one round and he got rid of it so it was just it was just not enough for wilder in theory it wasn't the best version yeah he got rid of it because and you know this is where of those situations where everyone saying something turns out to be right not often oftentimes the media is not right about their assessment of fights. But bringing in a guy like Malik Scott, who is a first-time trainer, really, at least at this type of level, who has a completely different style, you're not going to be able to have your fighter like kind of adjust

that stuff, take hold of that style in just one fight. It takes time to really bond with a fighter and develop a style. So what we saw from Wilder in that first round, we knew it was only a matter time before he went back to being the fighter that we've seen for the entirety of his career. Really, it was one round. Like, he kind of went back to it in the second round, throwing jabs. But after the midway point of that second round, it was just the same old Deonté Wilder throwing the one, two, right down the middle, trying to land the big right hand. It was incredibly effective in the fourth round when he put Fury down.

I'm thinking the start of the fifth, like, what are we going to see? But I thought Fury was in excellent shape for him. Like, he's never going to look like Deonti Wilder, but I thought he was in excellent shape. wasn't breathing through his mouth, didn't look tired, got caught in the fourth round, but recovered, went back to the jab. Like you said, I mean, this was, this was to me was just kind of vintage Tyson Fury. You know, maybe he was a little bit different than the fighter we've seen over the last couple of fights, but not that much different to me. I don't think it was vintage Tyson Fury. I don't think it was sharp Tyson Fury. There was

something lethargic about him. He came in a little bit heavier. I don't know. The gleam in that I wasn't there. The swag wasn't there. He had hints of it. It wasn't there. But it was still enough to be wild. I'm not taking nothing away from Tyson's the beast. But there was something missing.

And when time goes on, maybe in the press conference, or maybe when he starts doing interviews, we're going to find out if COVID had something to do with it. That wasn't the classic ginsic. He was to see him with a jab in the upper body movement, the light feet, athleticism. I'm not talking about the spare tire. I'm not talking about all that.

I'm just talking about the fluidity of his punches, of his footwork, of his confidence, of the swag. A little bit of that was missing and feeling. Well, I mean, look, he was off for 20 months. So it wasn't Deonté Wilder, but that takes your toll on it. Plus, as you said, he had COVID twice. He says, yeah, connectivity, catching COVID, multiple training camps. It can certainly have an effect on your body. But I saw a guy that outside of that fourth round was excellent throughout the court.

of this fight. And Deonté Wilder, to me, the big takeaway from Deonté Wilder is that if he was in better shape, and I'm not talking muscles. That's, as you know, that's not what it takes to be a successful high-level boxer. If he was more focused on the roadwork and being in better shape and not what he looked like in the mirror, I think he would have had more success. You're shaking your head, but tell me why. Because Wilder, what he needs to do, he has to have a 10-week camp of just shadow boxing. I'll be honest with me. Without, punching anything. He needs to learn how to miss and not look clumsy when he misses. He needs to work on footwork. He needs to go to like a football NFL camp and working footwork and athleticism and

speed. He doesn't need a brute power. He has raw power and we figured out we saw today that he has raw heart. This dude has heart. Wilder, you know, he impressed me today with his, not with his ability. I've never been impressed for this ability. I've been impressed by his power and today impress me with his heart. But he needs, he needs to learn how to look athletic when he misses. you know because when he misses he looks clumsy and that tires you out because boxers aren't accustomed to missing they don't train to miss they're trained to they bang heavy bangs they bang sparring partners but once they miss the legs aren't used to that especially when you're six foot six and weigh 250 pounds like these guys are so they're not

used to missing Tyson's theory on the other hand he he's a little bit more used to missing he doesn't look clumsy when he does that so i think if they ever do fight again or moving forward Wilder just needs to work on shadow boxing, on missing, on footwork, and forget about being the bronze bomber and that one right hand that he had. You know he has it. He just needs to worry on the small things, and those are the most difficult to pick up. Yeah, we'll get to the future of both men in a couple of minutes,

but I want to go back to the seventh round of this fight. That was, there were no knockdown to the seventh round, but I was sitting there and watching Fury just batter Wilder around the ring, watching Wilder have his arm up on the ropes, which he did for so much of that fight. I'm thinking to myself, this is the time when a normal corner would probably think about throwing in the towel. This is the time when Mark Brelin or whoever else might say, look, Deontay, you are taking a pounding from this guy. Yes, you always have that big right hand to fall back on, but you are looking exhausted. You are taking a beating. There are more things than life

than just trying to go the distance with this guy. Was there a point in the fight for you that you said, man, maybe this should be stopped? There was two points in that fight where I even yelled out in the group of people I was watching with us, said they should stop this fight, but they're not going to stop this fight because Malik Scott's not going to lose this 10%.

And if they do fight again, he wants to be in that corner. But if he stops this fight, Malik Scott's fired. We know that's how Deonti Walder works. So they're going to let this warrior go out in the shield. And that's what happened, man. I mean, it was a back and forth, but I knew Wilder was going to go out. And now there's no excuses. He got beat by the bigger men.

This was literally a war of attrition. And it was a hell of a fight, a classic, to tell you the truth, in my opinion. And we saw a warrior go out on his shield. That's exactly what Deonti Wilder wanted in his last fight. Let me go out swinging. And now he did that, man. It was just a lot to him. It was just a great being to watch as a fan.

Yeah, and I give credit to the referee in this fight because I think the referee probably had that in the back of his mind where he's like, you know, there are probably times I could step in, but I'm not going to do it. I saw the referee give a long look in that seventh round to stopping the fight while it was just kind of just staggering around the ring, grabbing the ropes,

leaning into the corners, taking a beating from Tyson Fury, but the referee did not stop the fight. Look, Wilder had some moments, but there was one moment, I think it was the ninth, the 10th round, at the very end of it when he got Tyson Fury into the corner and was landing some combinations. Fury, like, to some people who may have looked like he was being hurt by them, but Fury actually tapped his head as he was coming out of the corner,

basically saying, come on, hit me again, hit me again, because there was not enough steam on those punches for Wilder to really hurt them. Once you got through the first couple of rounds, he just wasn't throwing with that same power. And that goes back to the conditioning that I was talking about. He just wasn't in the kind of shape to throw power punches for 9, 10, 11 rounds. And there was more inside fighting in this fight. There was more wrestling in this type.

Oh, that was he. Let me do that. That's a good one. That's good. This was one of the big keys of the fight. Tyson Fury, and you and I have talked about this, Tyson Fury fights like a big man. We did an emergency podcast after the Joshua Usick fight, and we bemoaned how Joshua did not fight like a big man. Tyson Fury fights like a big man.

He uses every tool on his belt. And one of those tools is leaning on Deonté Wilder. From the first round on, he was draping that 6 foot 9, 277 pound frame on Deontay Wather. And Sergio, you can be as bulked up as you want up here. But if your legs aren't really strong, that is going to take it out of you. And you could see almost, it's like in a video game where you see the energy bar and your character go down, like in real time. That's what it was like watching Deonté Wilder. I thought it was, look, people could say,

oh, he's holding too much. It's tactics. If you have a size advantage, you use it. And I thought Tyson Fury in this fight used it as well as I've ever seen him use it before. Chris Mannix, you just love stealing words from my mouth. Man, that's exactly what I was going to say. You know me because you've been around me too long, but that's exactly what I was going to say,

except for that cheesy video game analogy. But yes, Tyson Fury knows that I fight like a big man, because when you're that big and when you have an opponent that tired and he leans over you, you put your weight on him. All you're going to get is a warning from the referee, but the damage on the legs of your opponent have been done. That's a ploy that we do in the gym. That's something we do in sparring.

That's something that every fighter knows, especially a veteran's know. And Wilder didn't know how to react to it. So he just, both of them looked tired, but Fury knew how to fight tired a little bit better, a lot better than Deonté Wilder. And that's body language right there. Whenever you see your opponent, you know, struggling, knowing that both of your attire, but his legs are gone, that just gives you more motivation. Tyson Fury, even though it wasn't, in my opinion, the best version of him,

he's just a naturally better fighter and he's a lot more smarter, especially when he's tired. Well, you know, from the start of the eighth round on, one thing I noticed was Deonté Wilder was taking every single second on his stool. Usually, as you know, with 10 seconds left, they blow the whistle, the corner leaves the ring. The fighter usually pops up. That's what Fury did. Fury popped up at the end of every round and kind of walked towards the middle of the ring. Maybe that was gamesmanship, but his body language looked great. Deontay Wilder, he had his legs splayed out.

He had his head down. He was spitting out water up until the very last second when that bell rang. There's a couple of times where the referee had to stall the start of the round because they had to get the stool out. because Deonti was sitting on it for so long. You saw the work that Fury put in on the body of Deonté Wadder leaning on him, paid dividends in the second half of that fight. That was a big reason why I thought he was able to be successful. Someone must have told you that because I don't think you would have picked up on that body language

or maybe you've been listening to what I say more often. But yeah, body language says a lot. Poker players will tell you that. Anytime a fight I go to this corner and he lays back. and he puts his arms against the ropes, and he lays his feet up. You know, these are signs that you pick up. You know, whenever a fighter leans forward,

like for instance, the great Chavez, he always leaned forward. He waited to the last second to get up, but his body language showed you that he was ready to go forward. Anytime a fighter's leaning back with his elbows against the ropes, bad body language. That's why you always see trainers put the fighters arms down. And because it's body language telling you,

hey, man, you gotta let this guy know that you want. Do you want to go out there and fight more? These are things that a Wiley fighter like Tyson is just across from you. So these are all things that I'm surprised you picked up, but fighters see it all the time. I see plenty, and I say plenty in our broadcast. So calm down with that critique. All right, let's shut up, you're an idiot. Let's get into the future of Deonti Wilde.

Because you've talked about Malik Scott willing to protect his 10% down the line. Maybe there's a fourth fight. I just don't see it, Sergio. Deonti Wilder is going to be 36 years old in a couple of weeks. He has now been not just beaten in his last two fights. He has been beaten down in his last two fights. Stopped 20 months ago and been knocked out cold in this last fight. So to come back, it's going to mean multiple kind of tune-up fights,

you know, rebuild your confidence, rebuild your skills. maybe he could have done that at 26. I don't know if he's going to do it or want to do it at 36. Use for an example here. Billy Joe Saunders after the Canelo Alvarez fight. Billy Joe Saunders still very much in the prime of his career. We have not heard Billy Joe sounding interested in boxing since that fight. That's largely because he went to the mountaintop.

He took his shot. He lost, made a bunch of money for it. Now he just doesn't have kind of the fire in his belly to go and do it. I question whether why. Wilder at this stage of his career is going to have that fire in his belly to come back and fight the Robert Hellenius's or Andy Ruiz's or Charles Martens to put himself in position for a Fury or a Joshua or Usoc fight in 2022 or 2020 or 2023. It might be that long before Wilder puts himself in position.

He may not even get there. I mean, the shine is definitely off him at this point. Like Andy Ruiz has to be watching him saying, look, I'm fat, but I'm in better condition and shape than Deonté Wilder. I mean, Robert Hellenius had a win over Adam Kavnowski in the undercard. You know, he's 37 years old as well, but he could probably think I could stop Deonté Wilder. So there's no guarantee even gets there. So I just wonder, and I, you know, it's tough to like to say for sure after a fight like this

because there's so much energy involved and there's a tendency to react quickly. But I think we may have seen the last of Deonti Wilder. What do you think? No, I think matchmaking will be the next thing. for him and I love that fight with Heleneas, another huge fighter coming out of a big win. That's a winnable fight for Deonti Wilder. So all he, you know, in boxing, only one knockout away from getting that shine back. So that shine that he lost today or the last couple of fights, he can get that back for one devastating knockout, like a knockout that he had against Brazil.

He can come back and do that against Heleneas. He's back. It doesn't necessarily mean that he can come back and win the World Championship again, but that shine will come back. People will be interested because that's what power does. People love power punchers and people love big brutes like Vionte Wilder. Plus, you know what, not for nothing. He knows how to sell himself, sell himself as a bad guy. You know, so everyone needs that bad guy. He knows how to self-promote. He knows how to be that one unlikable figure and he and he takes it and runs with it. And with that, how do you, Sergio, how do you sell yourself? Like, let me ask you how do you do that, though? I mean, Deonté Wilder talked a lot of shit in the buildup to this fight.

Said that Tyson Fury could never knock him out. Said that, you know, said that Tyson Fury cheated in multiple different ways before the last fight. So he has a lot of stuff. I'm not sure how you kind of turn around and rebuild it. Like, everybody's different, but I would imagine his confidence has got to be at rock bottom, Elise is a fighter right now. I mean, I just, like, I don't know. You're the fighter.

You've had ups and downs and down to your career. I mean, I just don't know what impact. These types of beatings will take on it. Like, again, these weren't losses. They were beatings that he took from Tyson Fury. And I don't, I'm not sure how you come back from that. Hey, listen, Mr. Boston College, if you cussed, I'm going to tell you how he gets it back by knocking the motherfuckers out.

He comes back and lands that big right hand and lays someone straight out. That's how the confidence comes back. That's exactly how the fans, you know, get the sensation of, like, I want to see this again. I want to see how, how do you say four fights? You see the trilogy and quadruple? Quadrilege. We want to see the fourth fight. That's how you do.

You want to see the fourth fight? You know, I don't want to see the third fight. I didn't want to see the third fight. I just think it was, it was unnecessary. No, I don't want to see the third fight. But guess what? That was a hell of a classic heavyweight. match of between hours of men.

So do I want to see the fourth fight? Maybe not next. But like I said, if Wother could come back and knock someone out, spark them out. Matt, yeah, I'll take a fourth fight. You know, there'll be time to get into Deonté Wilde's legacy once he ultimately retires. But you and I discussed this and have discussed this. Like, you know, what is Deonté Wilde's career? Like, I'm a Hall of Fame voter.

I don't think I'd vote for him in the Hall of Fame. because even though he had a five-and-a-half-year run as heavyweight champion, he had one quality win, or at least one win over one quality fighter, that being Luis Ortiz, like the other fights, the Dominic Brazils, the Johann Duopuses. I mean, these are not high-level opponents, and some of that's been circumstance, right? Alexander Pavecian, that would have been a good win for him. Pevecant tested positive for a band substitute. The Joshua fight couldn't get put together for political reasons.

He had opportunities to burnish that resume. taken off the table from him. But at this point, like, you know, he's like an attraction, but I don't know if you can ever say he was a great fighter. That's kind of where I land on it. I don't consider him as a great fighter either, and I don't think he's a Hall of Famer, but he has great power and Hall of Fame power. And people remember that, you know, people love knockouts. And he's always going to be remembered that maybe someone that will just, you know, one big win away from making the Hall of Fame or doing something. something great. But you know what? There's

punches that people remember. Julian Jackson. He's not a Hall of Famer. He's one of the hardest punches in history. Ernie Shavers. One of the hardest punches in history. The list goes on. Punchers usually, you know, it's hard for them to make the Hall of Fame, but people remember them as devastating knockout artists. And I think that's where Deonté Wilder's going to land on. He's probably not going to make it to Kandastoda, but he's going to make it to

everyone's brain and in people's mind. He definitely does. You know, his power, you know, rivals that of Mike Tyson, some of the great punchers of boxing history. One last thought on the fight itself. What did you think of the counts after the second knockdown by Deonté Wilder of Tyson Fury in that fourth round? There were a lot of people I saw on social media and elsewhere

thinking it was a slow count by the referee. I couldn't sort of tell in real time, but could you notice anything about the count on that fourth round? You know, I can probably go back and find something wrong with it, but it's not egregious. It wasn't, you know, Buster Douglas and Mike Tyson's slow. No, I don't think, I mean, you can always go back to any fight and fight controversy. I don't think this should be one of them. I thought, you know, I think it was a Mora, the referee.

I thought he did a great job. These are too big, man. You try not to get him away with him. But I think it was a pretty good job. And maybe kind of a little bit slow, but I don't think it was a, I don't. I don't think it was a slow counting and done on purpose. Well, one of the thing on the weight thing, too, Deonté Wilder, who did not do a post-fight interview, just issued a quote, said, I'm not sure what happened. I know that in training he did certain things.

I also knew he didn't come to camp. He didn't come in at 277 to be a ballet dancer. He came to lean on me to try to rough me up, and he succeeded. So, you know, Wilder acknowledging kind of what we all saw, like Fury got physical with him and made it really hard for him to win that fight. Last thought, Tyson Fury, his future. It's not Anthony Joshua. Dillian White wins his upcoming fight against Otto Balleen, which is a tough fight for White. Baleen's a very good fighter.

I think we will likely see Dillian White take on Tyson Fury. That's a huge fight in the UK. Probably does a massive crowd at some kind of indoor soccer stadium or something like that. I think that, and that's a pretty good fight. I mean, Dillian White's been waiting for a world title shot for years at this point. And even though Fury would be a heavy favorite, he's bigger, he's faster, he's just a better boxer than Dillion White. Dillion White, kind of like Deonté Wilder, always has that equalizer, that big left hook that he's landed so many times on so many opponents. So I think that's probably where Fury's headed.

What do you think? That makes sense in the UK. I think, you know, now that crowds are back, that fight easily fills out a big stadium. And Billion White always comes to fight. He's the number one mandatory now. Yeah, that's an excellent fight. Now, if you want another exciting fight, you know, you can come over here and fight an Andy Louise type fight. You know, or if you want to stay busy, there's plenty of fights in the heavyweight division.

But if you want to keep into the UK across the pond, I think Dillon White's the best way to go. Yeah, if you already mentioned Dillian White during the buildup for this fight, said when I get through Deonté Wother, I'm going straight to Dillian White. No cuts really on Furial or nothing significant. So he theoretically could in the next four or five months fight Dillian White. what happened. Sergio, good job, man. I'm actually amazed you made it back in time to do this podcast, but I'm really proud of you for doing it. Hey, let me tell you something. Weren't you just press for all? Where's the excitement, man? You just saw one of the best heavyweight championships in the world live. And you're boring, bro. Not boring. What are you talking about? I was already

kind of, I was in the building. There was a lot of energy there at that point. What do you want? you want from me? I want invigoration out of you. I want excitement. That's not a word. The liveness. Where's the liveliness, Maddox? That's not there. That's not. We'll see you in Fresno, Sergio. The volume.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite unhumored me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel,

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I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast. This is a place for raw unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it.

Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

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