The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Free Conor Benn

Episode Date: September 6, 2023

Chris is joined by Corey Erdman to discuss Chris Eubank-Liam Smith, will we see Eubank-Benn in the future, what should the future be for Conor Benn, and the breaking news the Shakur Stevenson and Frank Martin have agreed to a fight. Later, Erickson Lubin sits down with Chris talk about his career, his upcoming fight and his relationship with Mike Tyson. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix. This is. It is Boxing with Chris Mannix, part of the Volume Sports Podcast Network. I want to welcome in everybody listening on Amp. Amp is the first place to go to if you want to hear this podcast early. Make sure you subscribe to the volume feed on AMP. Subscribe to my feed on Amp as well.

We got a great show for you today. Corey Erdman, writer over at Boxing Scene.com, broadcaster to zone ESPN Plus, plenty of other outlets. He joins me to talk about the news of the week. We're going to get into the Chris Eubank Jr. Liam Smith fight. A lot of people surprised by that outcome. I want to talk about the possible resuscitation of Chris Eubank Jr. against Connor Ben. There's obviously a buzz building again for that fight. And we have a big fight in the lightweight division. Breaking News. I love when news breaks right before we record this podcast.

Of course, Stevenson, Frank Martin, that fight is a done deal for the fall on ESPN. We'll talk about that as well. A little bit later on, Erickson Lubin, 154 pound title contender. He joins me. It's been quite the journey, I would say, for Erickson Lubin, who came into the game as this white-hot prospect. He was signed straight out of the amateur ranks. The first fighter signed to Iron Mike promotions, had a blistering start to his career.

Then he had a couple of setbacks. The first round knockout to Jamel Charlo. He had the knockout loss to Sebastian. Dora. He is back on September 30th facing Jesus Ramos as the co-main event of Canelo Alvarez, Jermel Charlo. I talked to Erickson about his journey through boxing to this point. And why at 27 years old, he feels like he's just entering the best years of his career. Stick around for that conversation a little bit later in the show. At the top, I do want to touch on the news that broke on Sunday and just touch on it, because we're still

missing a lot of information on what happened over in the UK with Brian McIntyre, the trainer for Terrence Crawford, the trainer for Chris Eubank. He was arrested on Sunday at the Manchester Airport for possession of a firearm and possession of ammunition. As we record this, he is still being held over in the UK. And look, if you know anything about UK gun laws, it's pretty serious stuff. I mean, the UK has some of the most strict or strictest gun laws in the world. And there are minimum sentences for these gun laws. So a lot going on with Brian McIntyre, the trainer for Terrence Crawford. We'll talk more about it as we get more information.

But right now all we know is that he's been arrested. He's being held. And, you know, for his sake, we hope for the best for Beaumack to deal with that particular situation. So it's bringing Corey Erdman, senior writer, boxing scene.com. Corey's got a busy couple of weeks ahead of him on the broadcast beat. But Corey, I want to talk first about last weekend, Chris Eubank Jr., Liam Smith, revenge or repeat. And it was revenge for Chris Eubank Jr. dominates that fight, really from start to finish, gets the 10th round knockout.

I get a lot of stuff wrong, Corey. Definitely. But this I saw coming because the Chris Eubank I saw back in January, the one that lost, via fourth round knockout to Liam Smith. The outcome of that fight didn't make a lot of sense to me, how it all played out. For starters, Liam Smith is a 154-pounder coming up to 160 who doesn't have a reputation as a power puncher. Got a bunch of knockouts, but doesn't have a reputation as a power puncher.

Meanwhile, he stops Chris Eubank, and Eubank has a reputation for a guy with a good chin. So when I saw that play out the way it did in the first fight, I just, it didn't make a lot of sense to me. It made sense that Eubank, who in the previous months, was dealing with a lot of the fallout from the Connor Ben's situation. He had the fight scheduled with Connor Ben months earlier. It fell apart over the positive

drug test. I feel like there was a lot of things going on in the life of Chris Eubank Jr. going into that first Liam Smith fight. So I anticipated a better fight and sure enough, we got one. That Chris Eubank we saw in the second fight looked a lot more like the Chris Eubank

Jr. we've seen in over the last couple of years in boxing. And look, Liam Smith certainly had his issues. The weight cut was significant for him. He rolled both of his ankles early in that fight, and that probably hindered him some as the fight progressed. But I was impressed with what I saw from Chris Eubank Jr. And that felt to me like the real Chris Eubank and not the one we saw back in January. What did you think of that performance? Yeah, I was, I'm of two minds of the fight and how it blend. I was also very impressed with Chris Eubank. And I think that what you're touching on, you know, with the Chris Eubank old, I think that too, but more in terms of how dominant he was and his ability to kind of oppose his physicality, because I actually saw, particularly early

in the fight, a little bit of a new Chris Eubank, working with the new trainer, working with Beaumack. In past fights, in recent fights, when Eubank has been at his worst, he's looked to me like a guy who's been trying too hard to mimic Roy Jones Jr., And it makes sense. And that never works. It never works. You know, Roy is unique. It never works.

Yeah. And I think that he was trying to follow that a little bit too much to do that, like down to, you know, the head placement and some of the, you know, the kind of body language that Roy has in there, the cadence. It was almost a carbon copy. And it resulted in Euthbank doing very little in between his big moments. But what we saw this time out, number one, we saw him kind of lower his stance a little bit, a little bit more. bend to the knees, a little less of that growing-esque rhythm, a little less circling with the lead hand, and a lot more actual use of people, jabbing, solidly all the time, filling those gaps. It means that he was, and usually it's the opposite.

It's, you beg not doing anything, and then kind of exploding with his very athletic combination. So he no longer, at least what I saw in this fight, he's no longer just relying on his instincts and his athleticism, he was putting it together. Now, at the same time, I think it was very obvious that the ankle injuries that Smith either stayed during the fight or had coming into the fight.

We're very much hammered. Now, we've won this fight anyway? I think so. With those adaptations, I think, like you said, I thought he's going to win the first fight. I thought that in the first fight he was looking like he was going to. I thought the same about this fight too.

But you could see that Smith just did not have his feet underneath. He was really wobbly, he was really uncertain about his footing. That definitely played a factor, and especially for round seven onwards. He was basically a sitting duck. But I like the adaptations that Eubank made, and there obviously changed that he made himself, but also when I was watching on TV, Beaumack was very direct, very vocal and loud all throughout the fight.

So when there were times when Eubank might have drifted into his old ways, he heard a voice at all times adapting what he was doing. So, spread it to both Eubank and Beaumack, but I certainly, I have some sympathy for, for Smith and his ankles, you know, as a man who rolls his ankles quite a bit, I get it. Yeah, Beaumack was, you know, if you don't know Brian McIntyre,

one of the loudest voices in all of boxing. You can't miss his voice in the corner if he's coming after you. And he was like that all night with Eubach, especially with the jab. I mean, that was his most effective punch. I mean, he finished the fight with combinations, but that jab couldn't miss all night long. a pace setter for Chris Eubank Jr.

And I thought his confidence grew as the fight went on. The first couple of rounds I was watching it. I'm like, man, Ubank looks like a guy that just doesn't want to get hit again. And that had me worried about how that fight would play out. But as he got comfortable and maybe someone that had to do with, you know, the ankle injuries that Liam Smith suffered or the weight cut that made him, you know, in his words, unable to pull the trigger on some of those punches. But as he got comfortable, you could tell, you know, this was the guy that we're used to

seeing in boxing. I thought it was wild afterwards to hear Liam Smith say that he had to drop 42 pounds over a matter of months. That's a huge amount of weight. I mean, he had a back injury. I think it was April or May. And that back injury obviously kept him from working out on a regular basis. He ballooned up to, you know, by that calculation, 185, 190. And, you know, for Liam Smith, that that's a lot of weight to try to take off in a matter of months. So that's why I think, you know, even though there's a lot of people out there, you know, Tony Bellew, among others, that have pointed to the ankles. I do think Liam Smith,

who was very forthright about how he felt going into that fight. I think the weight cut was more significant than anything else. I mean, just, you know, the ankles, you know, kept him from moving. But every time that you bank threw a punch or through a combination

or even through a jab, Liam Smith threw nothing. He threw nothing. His head looks like it was just, you know, completely stationary. His counter punching just wasn't there. And to me, that has, as much to do with having to drop that much weight in a short period of time than anything else. Yeah, and fatigue causes injuries like that, right?

That's when fluke injuries like that happen or when your body is fully depleted. I mean, they can happen any. They're flukes, but that can't help your circumstances if you're coming in that drain. I mean, 42 pounds sounds like a lot, Chris, but I would be willing to bet that a lot of guys around 160 put on about 40 pounds in between fights. I mean, I think for Liam, having that back injury and being inactive is probably maybe more meaningful than the number that we see on the scale. That number sounds shocking to a lot of people, but I think there are a lot of fighters. Once you get up 160 and above that put on about 40 pounds, like Tim Bradley used to go up to about 200 and cut to 147.

So it's not completely out of the question. Ricky Hatton was enormous during his time off. I mean, that was, you know, the ultimate example of a guy going up. up in wait. So Liam Smith wants a third fight. I doubt that happens, at least not any time soon. Chris Eubank mentioned some names after the fight. He called out Kelbrook, who is officially retired, but certainly looking to get back in

the ring. You mentioned Ganada of Golofkin, though. Someone should tell Chris Eubank that Golofkin does not have those titles anymore. That was kind of what he was looking for when he called out Golofkin. But the money fight for Eubank is Conor Ben, you know, resuscitating that. that fight and getting them to together. You know, it looked like that Ben fight might be lost forever after the first loss to Liam Smith.

But now that he picked up a knockout and dominated the way he did, I think the marketability of that fight is all the way back to the level it was prior to that knockout loss. The question is, can Connor Ben get licensed in the UK? And that remains an open-ended question. because listening to Eddie Hearn and Connor Ben, it's he's cleared. And then you have the British Boxing Board of Control. You've got UKAD, the testing governing body, effectively saying he's not, at least not yet. Look, it may be, this may not be a popular take, but I do think it's time to let Connor Ben

out of boxing prison. I do think it's time to let Connor Ben fight again. I do not take positive drug tests lightly because in a sport like boxing, it's not just winning or losing. It could be life and death.

You have to take drugs more seriously in boxing than in virtually any other sport, maybe more than any other sport. That being said, I do think there should be a, you know, a set punishment for a first offense. And this was Connor Ben's first offense. I think a year punishment is appropriate. And whether you want to peg it to Connor Ben's last fight, which was in April of

2022, or when the positive test came out, which was the end of September of 2022, the next time he tries to get in the ring, it's going to be at or close to. or more than a year. And I think that's enough. I think if he test positive again, throw the book at him. Send him out of boxing for five years, 10 years. There is no punishment great enough for someone that tests positive a second time. But for a first offense, I'm okay with a one-year suspension. That's effective what Connor Ben has served. I don't like how he's handled it. I wish he would just fall in his sword and say, look, I didn't do anything. I don't know how this got into my system, but I'm going to take my punishment. I'm going to sit out and I'll be back at date X, Y, Z.

Instead, he's fought a tooth and nail. There's been all the bizarre defenses that he's made, the dossier that he's submitted to the WBC. Like, there's just so much out there that's just strange. But the fact that he has been out of the ring for more than a year. And the fact that we're coming up on one year since Connor Ben tested positive, that to me feels like enough. That to me feels like a proportional response to the positive test that he had last September. What say you, Corey? Yeah, I think the issue is that there are no parameters really for what the punishment should be. So it leaves it open to interpretation and it leaves it open to litigation. And of course, if you're counterbanded, if you're matching people behind him, of course you're going to try and

litigate it. You know, and I'm someone that always advocates for greater protections for fighters. and, you know, if you want to be, there's like unions for fighters, like players unions in other sports. If this situation happened and there were a boxer's union, they would fight this too, but there aren't any actual set parameters for what happens when you test positive. There are set parameters for when drug testing happens either. And another issue, I think, that allows for things like this to happen,

it is not to allow for fighters taking TVs, is that, you know, to be a boxing fan to work, boxing. It's an exercise in cognitive distance. There's a lot of things to consider all the time. Whether it's being driven, you know, whether it's a treatment of fighters, whether it's fighter pay, fighter protection, all these things. The sport does to the athletes themselves. There's a lot to consider and you have to kind of put that somewhere else in your mind in order to consume this sport. I think what winds up having is we wind up saying there's so much to consider that we just sort of turn our and there's so much going on at all times that when fighters test positive for

their performance and hands at drugs. There are bigger named fighters than Connor Ben, guys with Championship Belt, you're talking about, Lloyd Jones Jr., James Tony, Nello Algueraz, Oscar Valves, the guys with security, guys who we celebrate on television all the time. You can move past these things because there's just so much to consider all the time.

So there is a path to redemption for Connor Bennett. I mean, there's already, I mean, when you post these things on Instagram, you know, these dossiers that you're talking about, someone's jamming those life violence. Someone is on this side. And on the other side, what happens to race is that even the people that, you know, want the book thrown at least fighters who have these, do these bad things, or allegedly do these bad things,

what we turn it into is we think that an appropriate punishment is justice for physical violence, the ring and so we turn their return fights into this like morality you know like margarito versus pack yeah it was supposed to be this like you know we're getting our reckoning for margarito cheating and we allow them to make enough paycheck and go back in so yeah i i think that there has to be there should be net parameters for what happens if you test positive but there's so many things that we need to change to actually make that happen um it's hard it's even hard for me you know what stuff like this happens. Like, oh, man, do I want to get angry about Connor Banner? Do I want to, like,

click on the link that Timox A.O. sent out and watch a fight something. Right? There's too much to think about all the time. It's a lot. It's a lot. And we're dealing with it more and more in boxing because this year, while it's been a very good one for boxing overall, it has been littered with, you know, negativity when it comes to drugs, whether it's Connor Ben last year. You had Dillian White, at least you bomb gardener i mean there's just a lot going on a lot of the sport needs to do to clean it up which begins with you know 24-7 testing for everybody that wants to compete in boxing it's got to be a way to figure out how to do that but when it comes to connor ben i just think one year i'm okay with if he does it again gone see you later not allowed to fight in any

respectable country with any respectable boxing commission but i think the door should be reopened for Connor Ben to get back into the boxing ring. And if it is, that Ben Eubank fight is massive. I mean, we all remember this time last year when the promotion for that fight was starting to ramp up, where you had Eubank Senior and Nigel Ben, you know, talking about it. You had, you know, all the promotional videos about, you know, the past fight between those two and then, you know, teasing the future fight between these two. That fight will still sell out a big arena. in London, and anywhere in the UK, and be one of the biggest fights of the year over in the UK.

And if I'm Connor Ben, you know, we talk about Chris Eubank, should he want that fight? I think he should. If I'm Connor Ben, I want that fight, but I want another fight before then, too. There's been some talk about Connor Ben returning, maybe in the U.S. before the end of the month. I would want one fight at a higher weight.

Because remember, Connor Ben has been fighting at 147 for his entire career. This fight with Eubank will like, be at a full 160. I would want one fight at a higher weight before I, you know, get into, you know, get right into a fight with Chris Eubank who's going to be coming in sharp, fresh, confident, second fight with his new trainer. I'd want one more fight if I'm Connor Ben. But I'm of the opinion. A lot of people won't agree that it's time to allow Connor Ben to fight again and for boxing to open the door, whether it's in the UK or the U.S. for him to fight once again. All right. Speaking of fights, Errol Spence Jr. wants his get-back.

It's been widely reported, and I've confirmed that Errol Spence has exercised his immediate rematch clause to face Terrence Crawford. We all remember the one-sided destruction. Their first fight was back in July. Terrence Crawford winning that fight by knockout. Errol Spence really not winning maybe won the first round, but after that it was all Terrence Crawford. There was a lot of talk, Corey, about whether Spence would exercise an immediate rematch, whether he would look to take one fight at 154 before getting back in the ring with Crawford. Well, he wants to get back in right away.

Is this a wise move for Errol Spence Jr.? I think it is the right move. And even if you think that Spence isn't going to win this fight, I think that it is the right move if he's going to continue his boxing career. I mean, this is the biggest fight that's available to him. It's the biggest fight in terms of the monetary value, the amount of money that he's going to bring home. And as an athlete, I'm sure that he's looking at that one-sided fight

and thinking the way that I'm not better. So I understand fully where he's coming from. And I also, you know, if I'm going to be objective looking at things, Spence looking the way that he did in that fight, considering the trauma of his body, he's been through car crash and everything else, considerations that were there, even beforehand, even though he kept winning against the other top welter race,

there is a consideration of, well, how much time does he actually have left? When are these things really going to catch up? And is the beating from the last bike gets to catch up with them? And then we consider, well, if I am a pro-wife and I am basically playing the lottery, wavering for my physical well-being and just what money I can bring home, this is probably the best decision for him. So I totally get it. And that still stands, even if I think the expense gets wiped out,

at 154. If he wants to continue his career as an active boxer, then this is the biggest fight available to him. It's the one that he has an athlete has always believed that he could win, and it's going to bring him the most money. And even if this is the retirement plan to go out, and even if you lose again, you make another $10 plus million, you're set up on that ranch in DeSoto for quite some time. So I still think, like, listen, of course, are there readable fights out there that you think of the interim tour, but I don't know what exactly that would do for him. And in fact, if he faces off against another, you know, in the top 10-ish welter weight,

there are risks there that may not allow him to get to this Crawford fight again. So I think it is the right. I think if he fights Crawford next, there's no other way to look at it, but this would be his last fight. I'm of the opinion, Corey, that I don't think seven pounds is going to make a difference. I think the weight was a variable in that first fight. but I think Terrence Crawford at this stage is just better.

And I don't think a new weight class is going to change much. In fact, it might just make Crawford that much stronger because, you know, he had to cut the way too. And him not having to cut all the way down to 147 is going to benefit him as well. I agree with what you're saying that, you know, if you're Errol Spence, you go into the ring against, you know, a top 10ish guy that you run the risk of potentially losing. I still think in the interest of Spence, winning a rematch, I think he needs some kind of confidence boosting fight. I think he needs

activity too. I mean, he took that fight with Terrence Crawford after being out of the ring for more than a year. I think getting back in the ring against a light hitting 154 pounder, maybe even 147 pounder, just coming up and wait to be an opponent for Spence, I think that could benefit him. I think that could give him a little bit of confidence going into the rematch because the first fight just wasn't close. That's the big point. problem here. The first fight, Arrow Spence cannot look at that first fight and say, well, if I did this a little bit differently or that a little bit differently, I'd be in a position to win. No, he won the first round. We'll give him that. But then the next six, he got wiped out. You know,

I got knocked down the second and that beat up over the rest of that fight. I mean, I understand that Errol Spence is not about warm-up fights. He's proven that over the course of his career. The guy comes off a near catastrophic near-death accident and fights Danny Garcia in his first fight. game with Jordanus Ugas. He fights tough guys all the time. But if he's serious about winning this rematch and if his team believes he can win this rematch, I think he needs one fight. I think he needs to go up to 154, take a low level fight, get your confidence back, get comfortable at that new weight, and then middle of next year, go into a fight against Terrence Crawford. I understand that the politics of it and the legalities of it say that he probably can't put it off and automatically

get that rematch, but if Spence wins a fight at 154, Crawford's going to want to fight him again. The money's going to be there. Like the framework of the deal is in place. I just think you go into this fight with Crawford in January or February or whenever it may be scheduled. Without that next tune-up fight, you're going to lose. And you might lose just as badly as you did the first time.

You get a in-between fight. You may still lose. You may still take a beating. But I think you're going to be better off for it if you go into that Crawford. fight coming off a win as opposed to just being months removed from a beating. I mean, that wasn't a loss. That was a beating he took at the hands of Terrence Crawford. So I just think he should, he should do that. Yeah. And you know what, I could see that perspective both for, for Errol as a fighter and as an athlete, but there would also be benefits to that,

Chris, from a PR perspective as well, because the reality of how athletes are marketed, how fights are marketed these days, it is on your timeline. And it is, it is, what is most recently in front of your eyes. And right now, the most recent thing that the casual viewers, the ones that make paper views into paperview extravaganzas, the ones that make fighters a lot of money, those fans are the ones, you know, clicking like on the memes of Aero Spence looking like, you know, Martin.

And, you know, that's like, that's not good. But you put a fight in between there where maybe Aero scores a knockout. Suddenly all that's washed away. I mean, we saw it with Deonti Wilder, one comeback fight, one extraordinary knockout, and suddenly people are excited about seeing him all over me. It can happen, so there would be benefits. I can definitely see your side.

But, yeah, I think the sticky part is contractually, isn't even possible if there is that desire for him. Yeah. And look, even if he takes that interim fight, I'm still picking Crawford to win. I just think Crawford's better. And I don't think Spence is the same guy since the accident. I've said that over and over again.

I don't think he's the same fighter. He has not been that aggressive, you know, look for a knockout guy in a number of years. Certainly not since he took that, had that one car accident that nearly killed him.

Which, which by the way, makes his pre-proffered post-accident wins even more impressive in retrospect. I agree. If you believe that,

him going in there and beating Gerdinus when he, you know, was nearly killed in his car, that's extremely impressive. And we should look back

on that as so. He is one of the rare guys that you can all, you can say he always fought the best. You looked down his resume since he came out of the Olympics and since he started fighting at a championship level, there were very few gimmies on that list. Certainly almost none since he became a unified champion, whether it's fights against Sean Porter, you know, the Ugas

fight, Danny Garcia, you'll go down the list. He had a lot of good names on his resume. I just think at this stage, I think Crawford is simply the better fighter. And whether it's at 154, 160, 168, It's not going to matter. I think Crawford's going to win that rematch one way or the other. I want to talk about a great fight that was finalized on Tuesday afternoon. Chikor Stevenson, two-division world champion. He will face Frank Martin, undefeated 135-pound contender. That will be for the vacant WBC lightweight title.

It's the title of the Devin-Haney. I don't know if Devin vacated it as much as the WBC took it from him, made him champion in recess. But Devin Haney no longer a 135-pound champion with the WBC. that title will be up for grabs. There was a purse bid scheduled for Tuesday afternoon. That was called off after representatives from top rank and Representative Frank Barton, presumably PBC, made a deal for this fight to happen. It'll take place sometime in the fall.

It will be on an ESPN platform. I am all in on this fight core. This is a tremendous fight. And the kind of fight that you don't see a lot of in boxing, You don't see too young, still years away from their prime or still a brief time, whatever it may be from their prime, coming together through cross-promotion to make a fight like this. Schorer Stevenson, associated with top rank, he has been one of the top pound-for-pound guys for a number of years now, climbing the ranks every single fight.

Frank Martin really burst onto the scene with that win over Michelle Rivera a couple of years ago. Didn't look great in his last fight, but still a top guy at 1-30. You know, this is certainly a fight for the purest because neither Shakur or Frank Martin has massive fan bases behind them. It's not going to be a pay-per-view. It's not going to be a huge draw necessarily. But it will be, I think, a terrific fight between two guys that are right on the doorstep of being elite in boxing. What do you think of it? Yeah, I think it's a tremendous fight. And you mentioned the fact that this is a cross-promotional deal, too. That is a rarity that hopefully, I think it is becoming a little bit more of a commonality,

and hopefully that trend will continue. And I think this is a trend that I've been seeing in the way that fighters talk about wanting their career arts to be. They want to take these tests a little bit sooner. They don't see the value in a lot of these earlier career kind of fluff fights, development fights. And these two guys have been very loud on the timeline asking for fights like this, and they came together and actually made it happen.

I mean, that, it not only is it a tremendous fight for the purists, but I think that, you know, to your point, neither of these guys are on paper view caliber yet, but Shakur is probably a little bit closer. I think he's closer, you know, the fans that know who Spence and Crawford are, they know who Shakur is. The question is, are they willing to pay money to see him on pay per view? And wins like this will put you in that stratosphere. And, you know, Shakur is kind of following, and it's interesting because he is, who's very much in that. at Terrence Pofford camp, you know, that's one of his mentors. And you're seeing him kind of take a similar kind of career arc where everyone,

you know, the way that they talked about Crawford at this stage in his career was almost as if everyone assumed and knew that, hey, this may be the most talented guy in boxing right now. He's going to be number one one day. We just haven't had a chance to see it yet. Shakur is starting that path a lot earlier. I think that Crawford Titt, he's still a very young guy and taking these advice. But he's following that same kind of. path where he's created some, you know, some haters, let's say on the timeline, he's kind of

created a division between him and let's say the opposing camp, which Frank Martin is a part of in the, like the Errol Spence sphere, and then now he'll get a chance to win a grudge match against a top five-ish fighter in the division. This is the step that Shakur, I think, needs to hit that next level. If Frank Martin wins, I mean, that means that he was right all along, whatever he said about himself and he's going to prove a lot of people wrong. I'm going to enjoy why I want. Yeah, I want to give Frank Martin a lot of credit for taking this fight because it would have been very easy for his representatives to pull him out and say, look, there's going to be other titles that are vacant over the next three or four months. We're going to position Frank Martin to fight, say, Issa Cruz for a vacant title. Or maybe Frank Martin could position himself. Seems unlikely, but maybe he could for a fight against Javante Davis. There were a lot of ways that, you know, Spence, who is his promoter, PBC, which is backing him financially, a lot of ways they could have gone. Not only is he taking the toughest fight available to him, but, you know, his promoters and him are, they're going to

go to, you know, the, quote, rival platform. They're going to go over and fight on ESPN, which frankly for Frank Martin, you've got to be excited about. I mean, your exposure, if, if, and I've seen some dates floated, you know, November, maybe even the Heisman ceremony date that ESPN and top rank have in December, there's a chance for great exposure for Frank Martin in a fight like this, but I want to give him props because this wasn't a fight he needed to take. He easily could have walked away and followed a different path that could have led him to a world title at some point in 2024. He chose the path of greatest resistance, which I guess if we're looking at Frank Martin's resume, we should believe that. I mean, look, the fight with Michelle

Rivera, that was one-sided in the aftermath, but that was prospect against prospect at the time. That was a big fight for both those guys and kind of a pick-em fight at that time. Frank Martin went into it, got the job done. He is kind of following that same path that Errol Spence followed, like that I'm going to take tough fights. Like, I'm going to go out there and prove myself against the very best. And, you know, he's going up against a guy that in terms of pure skill, you know, Shakur's pound for pound as good as it gets. Like, he's not, you know, top five on my pound for pound list, but he's in the top 10. And, you know, there's few people in boxing the doubt that with the right fights, he could get inside that top five very quickly. So kudos to Frank Martin for

for taking a fight like this. Yeah, absolutely. And listen, Frank Martin's been knocking on every door he could knock up. Like I saw him at Williams-Zepeda fight. You know, like, what are you doing out here in the middle of Texas for no reason? He's just, he is asking for anyone of note. And he, you know, he landed the biggest fish that he could get. Yeah, look, and you mentioned Williams of Peda going to fight September 16th against Mercito Hesta. that fight's fine. You know, Hesta coming off the win over Jojo Diaz. He's been a fringy contender before.

But Zepeda had opportunities to fight Chikour. Chikor wanted to fight him. You know, Oscar Delahoeia, Golden Boy, they decided we want to expose Zepeda a little bit more before we step into a fight like that. Frank Martin said, no, I'm in. I'm in, man. I'm ready to go. That's a tremendous 135-pound title fight that really is going to pit two of the very best

and brightest in that division. Before I let you go, I want to touch on Dmitri Beaville's year. Because Dimitri Beaville was widely acclaimed as the fighter of the year in 2022. He beat Canelo Alvarez. He beat Zerto Ramirez. He made himself a boatload of money. He made himself a very visible guy. And he followed that up by spending the first nine months of 2023 fighting nobody.

And I sent a text earlier in the week to Vadim Korniloff, who is the manager of, and the promoter, I guess, co-promoter of Dmitri Beaville. and just asking like what's going on? And he said, look, we're looking at dates in November. I saw Eddie Hearn say some things about a potential fight for Beavol in December. I understand coming off wins like Bevo had over Canello and Zerto. You want to get paid because he made a lot of money to fight Canelo. And he made a lot of money, maybe more, to fight Zerto over in Abu Dhabi. So he made a lot of money in 2022.

But that he has gone, the first. nine months of this year without a fight is mind-blowing. Like, that is the definition of wasting momentum. This is a clinic on how you waste momentum. And I guess it's easy for me to say because I'm not in the ring, you know, putting my life on the line and, you know, getting punched in the head. But, you know, for Bevol to go this long without a fight at this stage of his career just feels like a bad career move.

What do you think? Yeah, and you can understand for the first few couple months, you know, waiting to see if there would be one of those big fights that would materialize. And, you know, for a little while he was in that Canello holding pattern, it didn't materialize yet. Clearly, that does seem like the fight that Canello does want to come back to at some point. So that needs something that B-Beeble needs to keep in mind. You know, he wants to stay viable, stay active so that that- Yeah, but not any time soon. I mean, Canello's not coming back to Beavle.

It might be two years before we even hear about Canello-Beeble again, if we do it all. Of course. And when you look at the options that are out there for people, like none of them really jump off the screen as something, right? But you're right. At this point, he probably just needs to fight somebody to stay in the public consciousness. Now, one thing to consider, which I didn't know until earlier on today, is that Beaville has been having some troubles in his personal life. He, his wife, reportedly, just went through a divorce. They have a couple children as well. So I can imagine if that's been really brewing public. over the last couple of months, then what the stripe in his personal life probably extends a little bit further back as well. And that may be a very obvious reason why things haven't moved a little bit faster. So I am willing to obviously extend some grace if that is the reason why this has happened. Yeah, no, of course, you know, that goes without saying. I just think that we've heard about Beevil looking for fights for months. You know, it was Canello in the first half of this year, you know, they were talking first about doing in June.

June, then maybe they do it in September. There were negotiations for that fight. They just fell apart because Bevo wanted a lot of money. And Kinella wanted a lot of money. So there just wasn't a big enough pot available to them. Then you heard about stay busy fights in the UK over the summer. None of them actually materialized. It seems to me that Bevo has wanted to fight for months now.

And because of his financial needs, those fights have just been not, not been able to come together. And maybe if you're 25, that's okay. But Beowell's in his early 30s, what's he, 32, 33 years old right now. These years you don't get back. You know, and I understand like fighting, you know, lower level guys maybe isn't all that appealing to Dimitri Beaville right now. But, you know, you got to stay viable. You got to stay visible. There's too many guys in boxing that are just waiting for these massive paydays. I mean, I look at Andy Ruiz, who's out there all the time asking for like 10 million bucks for some of the fights that that he wants. And he's been, he's fought what twice since his win over Anthony Joshua?

Like, they're just blown opportunities to me. And I don't really understand. I don't know why these guys don't do more to stay active. I mean, the biggest box office draw, the biggest star in boxing is also the most active fighter in boxing. Canelo Alvarez fights, you know, at least twice a year, sometimes three times in a year. granted, he gets paid what he wants for those fights, but to get to that Canello level, you've got to stay active.

Dmitri Beavle hasn't done that this year. I mean, this has really been a lost year from him. Because you fast forward, like, you know, January, presumably we're going to see Archer Betterbeyev against Callum Smith after that. You know, nobody, I don't even talk to anybody that thinks that Better Beev Beev Beev is anywhere close to being able to be made because the financial demands for both are too significant. I don't know what Beowell's path is here.

Canello's gone. Better B. F. is gone. He's got the one belt at 175, but nobody defended against. I just, I don't know what the marketable fight is out there for him. And with none of those available, if I was Demetri Bebel, I'd want to do everything I can to fight at least twice a year. And now at this point, maybe he gets one fight in, in 2023. And that feels like a complete waste of a year to me. Yeah. I mean, I feel like, you know, maybe the obvious fight to take is against Vodzik, which I understand doesn't seem all that appealing to a lot of people, but at least you have a former lineal champion taking on B-Bow. At least there's something there.

But, yeah, I mean, listen, you can be on the side of wanting fighters to make as much money as they can for every fight out and also recognize the reality that B-Bowl is in, which is that he will make $0 if he doesn't just fight something. And, you know, there will be a detrimental impact, both to him as an athlete, but also, to him in terms of marketing if he doesn't get back in the ring. So I respect his decision. If he decides, listen, I fought for $10 million once, I'm not going to fight for $1 million or less than that.

I totally get that mindset. But there are going to be some consequences for people. And, you know, one of them may be, unfortunately, that his asking price has to go back down. So it works against him in the long run as well. So it's an unfortunate spot that he's in, you know, that he sort of beats the cash cow in boxing. and then sort of runs out of options.

It's the worst case scenario, but it's the position that he's unfortunate. You know, speaking of opportunities, I can name one specifically. For months, it sure sounded like Jaime Mungia and his team wanted to fight against Dmitri Bable. That sounded crazy to me, but they seemed to want it.

They were motivated to make it. If I was to meet Trebeville, I would have done anything in my power to make that fight happen. I would have taken, you know, not no money, but I would have taken, you know, a couple million bucks to fight Jaime Mungia because that,

is another one of those kind of king-making fights. And if you're Bevel, all of a sudden, you can frame yourself as this, you know, Mexican marauder, like this guy that beats up all the top Mexicans. You beat Kellele, you beat Zerda, you take the O's from the last two guys. Like, there's a way to build yourself up by taking a fight like that. And look, with all due respect to the people that thought Jaime Mungia was going to win that fight, he was not. He was not. That would have been easy work for Dmitri Bevel, who was just too big, too strong, and too technical at this stage for Jaime Mangia. That's a whiff.

Not taking the Jaime Mangia Fiver, Dmitry Beaville, is a big time whiff. And, you know, if that fight never comes to fruition, you know, that would be something I'd regret, because there's a little bit of money in it and there's a lot of notoriety in it if you're Demetribevel in taking a fight like that. Hopefully he cuts back

because he's a great fighter. We want to see him fight more often than not. All right, Corey Arbman, follow him on social media. Check him out in the DZone broadcast. ESPN Plus broadcast. It's a terrific job. on all those platforms. Corey, always appreciate your time, my friend. Anytime, man. We'll see you soon.

And when we come back, my conversation with Erickson Lubin. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care where you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand-new podcast. the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations

with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, Erickson Lubin is a junior middleweight contender on September 30th. It will take on Jesus Ramos and the co-made event of Canelo Alvarez, Jermal-Charlo's show that you can watch on Showtime pay-per-view.

I have been fascinated by your career for a long time. I've covered you since the very beginning, back in your turn, almost 10 years ago at this point. And you've had such an interesting arc. You came out hot out of the gates, winning a lot of fights in a row. You had the setback,

but then you come back and win a lot of high-level fights in a row. You have another setback, and you're back again, you know, competing in high-level fights. As you look back at kind of the way your career is gone, what do you think of it? There's been ups and downs. But, you know, I've always been driven.

You know, I don't let the setbacks, you know, really define who I am. You know, I just stay motivated. I stay in the gym. I stay ready. That's why I'm able to fight, you know, just eight weeks after my last fight. So, you know, I'm looking to become world champion. And when I'm champion, I said it before. I say it again, I don't plan on giving the belts up.

I plan on staying champion and, you know, just it's, I'm real big on legacy. Also big on the money, but, you know, I'm real big on legacy. And I plan on leaving behind, you know, a big mark in the sport. You know, that's why I don't take, you know, any easy fights. You know, I want people to remember me for that. And, you know, I've beaten top contenders. I've been former world champions. I've beaten Olympians.

I beat the top prospects, you know, so like I said, man, you know, it's never the easy route with me. And September 30th, got another young hungry kid in front of me. But I'm also young and hungry. But the difference is, is I have experience. I fought the cream of the crop of the division. You know, I fought the main event. I fought, you know, Jamel Charlo. So, you know, I'm looking, you know, have a huge.

have a huge run this time and getting to the big fights and being the the big pay-per-views and just those big fights you know you mentioned that experience and you are still a young guy 27 years old but you've been in the game as I said almost 10 years does it feel like you've been in the game for 10 years nah it feels shorter than that honestly shorter than that um but you know time flies man man, and, you know, I've told my handlers from the beginning, I said, you know, I don't want the easy route. You know, I was 5-0 fighting guys with 30 fights, and, you know, you just check the resume. I've been in there with the cream of the crop of the division.

And, you know, Hazouz Ramos, we both got a lot of questions to answer on September 30th, so I'm excited for it. What questions do you have to answer? You know, a lot of people got, you know, questions like, am I going to be champion? um does he have a chin um there's a lot of questions to answer and you know september 30 if i can't wait you know that actually marks when i turned pro 10 years ago one more day one more day on my birthday the first you know it marks when i turn pro and um i'm excited i'm really excited this one i'm extra motivated for i feel like this is um i feel like every fight's a my biggest fight you know because, you know, even with my last fight, I felt like, you know, that's not somebody I should be losing to.

You know, I have to go in there. So I put a standard to myself. You know, I had to go in there and I had to stop Louis Arias. I had to, you know, look impressive so that I'm able to be on these bigger platforms and be, you know, against a guy like Jesus Ramos or, you know, not just Jesus Ramos, but, you know, I still got bigger fish to fry. You know, no pun intended. but, you know, those type of fights. You mentioned the questions people on the outside might have about will you become champion. Have you ever asked yourself those questions amidst your some of your setbacks?

No, not really. Not really. I never really asked myself. I just tell my, I push myself to, like, you know, get there. Like, make it happen. Like, there's no reason why it shouldn't happen. Make it happen. Hammer, make it happen. You know, like the fight with Fondora, I knew it was a, you know, a fight that I needed to win.

You know, I would have been in way bigger fights than the fights with Louis Arias or Jesus Ramos. But, you know, things happen for a reason. And I just got to show and prove once again. I've done it before. I'll do it again. When you think back on the two setbacks, the Charlo and Fondora, was one more difficult to get past for you than the other? Not really.

Not really. I feel like with the Charlo fight, you know, I was young. I was just young and hard-headed. You know, you can't tell a young guy that's 18 and no nothing. You can't tell him nothing. You know, he's undefeated. You know, he wants to fight everybody, you know. I wanted to fight anyone.

I never said no to a fight. And I still don't say no to a fight because I feel like I'm far more skilled than a lot of these fighters in this division. but um you know when i when i was 22 years old and that's probably how ramos is feeling he's 22 years old i'm 27 years old the table's turned you know charlo was 27 years old when we fought and i was 22 years old so you know you know what they say history repeats itself this time in my favor though the charldo fight it just felt like you know we never knew how that fight would play out you dipped into a shot took it and that's the way it goes right in boxing

Did you feel that way after the fight? Like you just didn't get your real chance to show yourself against him. I felt like, you know, there was a lot more to do, you know. Honestly, I felt like, you know, the round was going, you know, it was competitive. You know, there's two skilled fighters going at it. But then, you know, dipping into a shot like that,

you know, sometimes after the fight, I just had to go back and just reevaluate a lot of things. Like, you know, the way I'm living. the people I'm around, you know, the type of training that I'm getting, just a whole bunch of things I had to just reevalued. I had to mature more. I had to become more of a man. And, you know, that's what I did.

I really did. I got with Kevin Cunningham. He's teaching me inside and outside the ring. He's teaching me to be just more militant and more, you know, on top of my shit. And, you know, I feel like that, that's. It's taking me far and it's taking me to where I am today. You know, I'm here on a co-main event and on a paper view. Even though I don't believe that I should be the B-side,

you know, because I'm far more experienced than the kid, but, you know, it is what it is. I just have to go in there and I have to prove people right and I have to prove people wrong. Do you feel like the B-side going to this fight? Not at all. Do you think you're being pushed as the B-side in a way? I mean, you're not really.

I feel like it's just a, It's just a matchup, like an exciting matchup that, you know, they're putting, you know, for the world to see, you know, and I feel like the winner is in line for something big. I feel like the winner is in line for something big, so, you know, I'm excited. But, you know, he's undefeated. I get it. You know, he's undefeated.

He's never fought anyone like myself. He's never fought anyone, like, I fought, like, I fought. And like I fought the, like I said before, the former champions, the Olympians, the top contenders. I fought those guys. He hasn't fought him yet. And this is his first real test. You were off for a little over a year after the Fondora fight. What was that year like for you?

Just relaxing, you know, being with family. Did you need it? Or were you kind of like, as soon as I heal up, I want to get back. and what was kind of your mindset? My team, you know, I let my team handle everything like that, you know. Like as far as like, you know, when we should get back in the ring, like I let Kevin. I let my handlers go ahead and decide that, you know. But I was ready to get back in there, you know, not too long after.

I just, I just relax. You know, I just had a daughter during the time. So just hung out with my kids and, you know, just focus more. and see what went wrong, see what could go, you know, see how I could make things better and different and, you know, up my game some more. How have you upped your game? You have the one fight since then. You stopped Luis Arias.

Do you feel like you're the same fighter, a better fighter, a different fighter? How would you describe it? I feel like I'm a better fighter. You know, I felt like I went to the Fondora fight with a lot on my mind, you know? You know, they say, you know, with me. Mental health, I was battling mental health a little bit. I don't like to use that as an excuse. You know, a lot of people, they battle mental health, and they won't go fight.

You know, I was battling mental health, and I just, I still went to go fight because I felt like this is where I find my happiness. I felt like boxing and going in there and, you know, going into camp, I felt like I was feeling a lot better, but, you know, I was still battling mental health and going through a lot of things, you know, things I don't really want to speak of, but some things that, you know, everybody might agree with me. But I just, I went into that fight, you know, with a lot of my mind. And I know with future fights to never do that, you know, never going there with too

much on your mind, keep your mind clear, keep your energy clean, be around the right people, you know, stay happy, stay healthy. Is it harder as a boxer because it's such a, you know, tough guy sport? to admit to going through mental health issues before a fight like that, to even accept that they could be something that could weigh you down? Is it harder as a boxer to do that? Sometimes. Sometimes I feel that way, you know, because I've always been, you know,

the tough guy that's trying to challenge myself. I always try to challenge myself. I always want to get in there with the best. If they say he's the best, I want a piece of that dude. I want him. You know, so it is kind of hard, but, you know, sometimes you just have to be honest with yourself, stay true to yourself. And that's what I did.

You know, I'm more true to myself. And I'm still hungry. I still got a chip on my shoulder. Still got a huge chip on my shoulder. I haven't been, I haven't became world champion yet, you know, and that bothers me, you know, because I was the top amateur. I was the number one guy. You know, they were looking at me like he's going to win the gold medal for a fact, you know.

So, you know, with that type of praise and accolades and all that type of stuff, you know, you've got to almost become that. You know, you got to be that world champion. And I feel like now is the time. Now is the time I'm much more mature. You know, they're putting a young kid in front of me. And I feel like I got to bring him down the earth a little bit, let him know that, you know, experience will be his best teacher. I still remember those angry press release of USA Boxing. Yes.

Those phone calls, those press releases, they were not happy when they lost out on Erickson Lubin. You don't look past anybody. Well, let me ask you first. You said you dealt with some of the stuff you were dealing with. How do you feel mentally going into this fight? I feel great. I feel great. I feel superb.

I'm excited because, you know, my last fight was just eight weeks ago, eight, nine weeks ago. So, you know, going back into the ring, I got the phone call probably like two weeks after the fight, you know, still in shape. I went to, I went back to the gym. You know, I probably took a week off, not even a couple days off, went back to the gym. And, you know, got that phone call like, hey, do you want to fight Ramos? And this is honestly a fight that I've asked for prior to him fighting Joey Spencer, I think. Or maybe it was around that same time. I asked for the fight.

I said, you know, let me get Ramos. You know, they came back to me like, oh, no, it doesn't make sense or this and that, you know. But after the Joey Spencer fight, which I tip my hat to him, he did look good in that fight. You know, he did what he was supposed to do. He got rid of Joey Spencer. But is Joey Spencer the caliber fighter? Is he special? Is he elite?

Is he on an elite level? I don't think so. And no, no. I'm not trying to knock his game or anything. thing you know joey spencer he'd get it how he lived but you know this is the fight game this is is either you got it or you don't so um you know this is a fight i asked for and you know they think he's ready so good for a box to be active too i think yeah it's it's great you look at the top of the bill you know biggest star in boxing maybe the most active guy in boxing i mean that

i think those two are connected when you're that good being active i would assume matters yeah i told I said, man, this is going to bring the best out of me. You know, me being active. You know, for the past couple years, 2021, I fought once. 2022, I fought once. 2020, I fought once. 2019 is when I fought three times. And I beat Gallimor in impressive fashion.

You know, I was barely touched in that fight. You know, I fought three times that year. I think I walked away with two knockouts. I beat E.S.A. Smith that year. And, you know, I felt real good, you know, being active. And I feel like this is, I'm back to that. I'm back to that dude, you know. So September 30.

You get asked after the fight if you could face either Fondora or Jamel Charlo next. What is your answer? It'll be Jamel Charlo. It'll be Jamel Charlo. You know, I feel like with boxing, you know, they say you're only as good as your life. last fight so you know people might see uh might might see the fight with fundora or even the fight with louis areas well louis areas you know that was just like people may take that as a tune-up but they look at the big fight that i took against fundora and they may say oh he's not ready for charlo or

he's this and he's that they may have their questions and whatever their opinions but um like i said man i i want the best dudes i want the best dudes i want i've told myself that I'll be fighting Canelo one day. I'll be fighting Canelo in a few years when I turned pro. And, you know, I'm not too far away. I'm not too far away. So I feel like a rematch with Charlo, it's going to happen. It's definitely going to happen.

And I'm going to be far, far, far more ready than I was the first time. You still keep up with Mike Tyson? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You're the first guy signed him, right? Yeah, iron mic promotions back in the day. Yeah. Yeah. I saw Mike actually at the Tankin' Ryan Garcia fight.

We chopped it up a little bit. You know, I'm cool with some of his family members. You chopped it up. It was a good time. You were active back then. That was a... Yeah. I fought 10 years my first time. My first year. 10 times my first year. Yeah. Incredible. Incredible. Well, Erickson, good to see you back, man. Like I said, I'm a big fan. You always take the toughest tests. And, you know, even when you go down, you get back up again. Here you are once again, a big fight.

And I hope you get through it. Hope we see in bigger fights down the line, man. Thanks for joining me. Thank you. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Corey Erdman and Erickson Lubin for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts. And I'll see you next week.

Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Lever, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashed. human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and

with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Bole Your Mind on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.