The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - Garcia - Davis is it about to happen

Episode Date: January 27, 2023

Chris is joined by the former champion and DAZN broadcaster Sergio Mora to discuss Eubank-Smith and what should Eubank do next, does Rocha have what it takes to be a champ at 147, and what they make of Wilder calling out both Usyk and Fury as cheaters. Later, Oscar De La Hoya stops by to break some news on a hopeful Ryan Garcia - Tank Davis fight. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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That was my moment. Now with interviews, analysis, and everything going on in the world of boxing. When you have talent, you are given another chance. Here's Chris Mannix. So do you like the new setup here for the podcast? What's a new setup? We're in a garage. It's cold.

And you happen to go to living space. and got a sectional $400 sofa, you cheap skate, and one light that's already running out of battery. We're on YouTube now. So what? My six-year-old people can watch clips. My son could be on YouTube, man. Anyone could be on YouTube.

But I'm trying to expand the podcast. We've got a very loyal audience on the audio side. Loyal because of me. Loyal because of me. I bring in the ratings. I bring in the numbers, and that's why I'm your returning guest. Bring in the bad scally cap, too.

All right. Sergio Amora is here. former junior middleweight champion, DeZone broadcaster, the Latin snake himself. On this episode, we are going to get into the big fight this weekend over in the UK,

Archer Better Beav against Anthony Yard. We're also going to talk about Alexis Rocha. That is why we are in Los Angeles. Alexis Rocha is going to take on George Ashy at the YouTube theater. That's a fight that we're going to be calling on DeZone. But first, Sergio, I want to go back to the UK from this past weekend.

You add Chris Eubank Jr., Liam Smith, 160 pound fight. This was a fight that most people favored Eubank. They thought Eubank would, I don't know if it be an easy win, but they thought he was the significantly better fighter than Liam Smith. Not only was he not the significantly better fighter, but he got knocked out in the fourth round of that fight. So let's start there.

Your reaction to Chris Eubank getting knocked out by Liam Smith. I was surprised, just like everyone else. I thought Eubank was going to have not a walk in the first. park but another unanimous decision win, fight behind the jab, fight careful, and pick up a win against a former champion. But that wasn't the case, Manix. That wasn't the case for many reasons. And I'm sure you're going to ask me about it.

So I'm just going to tell you about it right now without you asking. You know, when a fighter gets content, you know, he gets to a point where he thinks he can do the same thing with everybody. Chris Eubank Jr. came a long way on his father's last name. He came a long way with that swag that he carries himself with. He came a long way fighting careful behind that jab, not taking many risks. He has enough power to hurt you, but he doesn't go out to hurt you. So these are all things that carried them this far.

But against a former champion like Liam Smith, someone that's been through the fire, someone who's older, shorter, and lighter, was able to knock him out. This is a man in Eubank that's accustomed to fighting at 168, but he started his career as 151. So he's not a natural super middleweight. See, these are the little things that you have to actually dissect. So I just think he's finished, man. I think he's finished.

I'm going to go out and say what Nassim Ahmed said the first time he seen him fight. I think he should finish. Well, we'll get to that in a minute. Paul Frotch said the exact same thing. Right. And we'll get to his future in a minute. But I want to talk about the fight right now because I was, look, if you told me Liam Smith was going to win that fight, I would say, all right,

maybe I could see that. Liam Smith is a good fighter. He had some momentum coming into that fight. You know, two of his last three wins came against Anthony Fowler, which was a relatively high profile win. Jesse Vargas, he beat up. That was over in the U.S., we called that fight. So he was coming in with some momentum.

But Chris Eubank has a reputation for having a really good chin. And to get clipped by Liam Smith, who's not a monster puncher, but to get clipped by Liam Smith in the fourth round and get knocked out. I mean, Eubank has liked to say that he could have continued. No, he couldn't have. There was no way he could have continued. He thought he was still in the fight when the referee was grabbing him. That tells me you're completely out of it at that point.

I was shocked that Liam Smith was able to finish that fight. That part of it, though, like, did that part surprise that Liam Smith got a stoppage in this fight? Yeah, it surprised me and surprised everyone. and you're so fickle, man. This time yesterday, you were saying that Chris Eubank Jr. has a granite chin. Quote unquote, you said granite chin. Okay, let's do this.

He does have a granite chin. I clown you over there. No, he doesn't. Good. That's an appropriate word. Good chin. And it's not that he has a good chin is that he's always in great condition. You see how ripped and lean he is.

He's a tall fighter. He fights behind a jab. He doesn't take a lot of chances. And when he does get clipped, he can take the punch because he's in shape. He doesn't have no granite chin, but I'm glad you finally corrected yourself. He's fought, look at some of the guys that he's fought, and gone the distance with. Billy Joe Saunders, not a puncher.

Not a huge puncher, but he's a legitimate middleweight at that time. Arthur Abraham? Big puncher, older. Okay, definitely older. George Groves. Big puncher kind of already over the hill. James DeGale? Damn good punchers.

Okay, I just named at least two good punchers that Chris Hubeckis. He fought very careful. Matt Coraboff? Tremendous puncher, but not. Not a championship caliber. Then, you know, Liam Williams in his last fight. And all these fighters that you just mentioned, he was able to carefully go the distance with.

So he came up short with BJ Sanders, but a split decision majority. That's what he does. He stays in the fight with the jab. He doesn't take chances. It's not a granite chin. When he does get hit, he's just in good shape where he can backpedal. He can use the jab. He could fight smart.

That's who he is. But when he came to a fighter that... Do you think he got clipped with a lucky shot? That's what he thinks. No way. He was winning the fight, you're going to hit with basically a lucky shot, or at least a good shot. There's no such thing in luck in boxing. There's no such thing, all right?

So get that out of your vocabulary. Nobody gets hit with lucky punches. You train for you not to get unlucky in the fight. He got clib because he's older. He got overconfident and he's older. His reaction time is not the same. And he was in there with a former champion that's been through the fire. Let's not discredit Liam Smith here.

He comes from a fighting family, all right? That's one. He's already been a former champion. He's fought Canelo, came up short. He fought a much bigger Jaime Mugia, undefeated champion. Came up short. And then he lost against an undefeated Russian fighter, I believe. Very good fighter.

Came up short. Nothing to sneeze at his record. So he's been through the fire. He's hardened through it. He's been a legitimate former champion. Chris, you bank junior. And let me emphasize the junior, manix. Are you a junior, by the way?

No. You should be. Nepotism. I don't even know it's best. That's not nepotism. Juniors, on the other hand. He can't carry the legacy his dad had, you know, but he came a long way on his dad's last name. You know, Junior never really won a major world title, Manix.

He was an IBO champion. He was an interim champion. He never held one of the four major straps. Liam Smith has. So that's the difference. One, you have a smaller, older fighter that's been through the fire, face the actual big dog, and actually can call himself a former champion. Then you have somebody that just got a long way from his father's

name like you. All right. Okay. I did not kill a long way from my father's name. Shout out. Manick Sr. Love you. He was a police officer in Boston.

Anyway, let's talk about the future of both guys. Chris Eubank, as you alluded to, there has been suggestions that he should retire. Kauff Ratch was one of them. He is 33 years old. This was a bad loss. You kind of already gave it away, but you think he should retire. Yeah. No.

He doesn't have that. hunger anymore. I don't think he can go back to pick himself up to get back to a title shot. I don't think he has three, four fights left in him to go fight hard and contenders. That's what you have to do to get back on top. Now, maybe he doesn't have to do three fights. Okay, maybe he can have the immediate rematch. He says he wants the rematch. That's the only

way that I think he can get his credibility and his respect back. But if he goes back and faces a top 20 contender and wipes the floor with him and then another fighter maybe gets a knockout. It has to be calculated risk that he takes. Once he gets back to the championship level or the former championship level, we're going to see what happens again.

Once you get clocked like that, Mannix, it's going to be in you. And as far as Chris Euban goes, Jr., he carried himself with an aura of an invincibility. And any time you have a fighter like that that finally gets stopped, not beaten, knocked out, embarrassed in front of millions of people in front of your home crowd,

You don't have that swagger anymore. He can't carry himself like he used to, you know? They're just, they got to transform it to something that he's not. He can't humble himself down so I don't see him coming back. I don't think he needs to retire. I do think he needs to move back up in weight to super middle weight. I think we have seen, and I know you disagree with this, but we have seen that guys cutting down in weight, it cost them something with the chin.

Like it makes them more vulnerable to getting knocked out. And that's what I think we saw with Chris Eubank. I don't think he was hit with a lucky shot. I think he was hit with a good shot, a shot that Liam Smith planned to throw. And I think he just couldn't take it. And if he can't take a Liam Smith punch, how is he going to take like a Gennady Golofkin punch?

Or even a, you know, we'll get to this later, but even a Connor Ben punch in that situation. So I think for starters, he should move up to 168 and start fighting there. I also think he needs to reevaluate his style of fighting. I'm not saying, look, Roy Jones is one of the all-time greats in boxing. And if they want to continue working together, they absolutely should. But whenever I watch Chris Eubank fight, he fights like Roy Jones.

He tries, tries, he tries. And guys can't do that surgery. What made Roy Jones special was his reflexes were off the charts. He was one of the best reflexive fighters that anyone has ever seen. And when he got into trouble later in his career is largely due to the fact that his reflexes started to erode. It wasn't because he changed his style. It's just that he couldn't be as twitchy in some of these fights. Chris Eubank was never that twitchy.

And yet I see him out there in the ring. He's got the arm dropped. He's swinging around. He's moving a little bit like Roy. It's like with Floyd Mayweather. Like only Floyd. can do the shoulder roll. Guys try to mimic it, they don't do it particularly well.

Same thing with Roy. Roy fights like Roy. And if you try to fight like him, you better be blessed with the same type of reflexes. So I'd like to see UBank go up to 168 and start to tweak his style. He doesn't have to fight like Tim Bradley, but I think he does need to fight a little bit less like Roy Jones.

Is reflective a word? It is. Just checking, Mr. Boston grad. All right, well, look. Boston College. The reflexes, yes, what made Roy Jones Jr. great is his reflexes in the power and speed. That combination of the three, which is a rarity for a boxer to be gifted with. Normally he's gifted with one if he's lucky.

Two, if he's great. All three, that's athleticism. That's Superman right there. That's Superman type talent. So don't ever try to compare yourself to Superman. Floyd Mayweather Jr., another Superman. You can't compare the speed, the power that he had, that lightweight, the twitchy reflexes that you said, man, this is like, these are like two supermen of boxing when it comes to reflexes,

and you can't compare their speed and power to anyone else. That's one. I mean, when I first started boxing, I wanted a box like Sugar Ray Leonard. Then I realized I don't have Sugar Ray Leonard's speed. Then I try to box at Roberto Duran. I don't have models of Piazzas. Then I try to fight like Roy Jones Jr. I don't have that athleticism.

And then I realized you have to fight like Sergio Moore and you have to invent your own style. And that's what I did. That's why my style is so unique because I had to invent. what worked for me. Chris Eubank Jr., we know what got him a long way. That's a long jab. He's patient. He doesn't take chances. He has a good right hand. He'll catch you with little sneaky uppercuts for a tall fighter. They'll catch you off guard and a good body puncher. He has the solid basics. But whenever you're talking about training with a legend like Roy Jones Jr., yeah, of course you're going to try to emulate him because that's who you admired growing up.

But you can't be doing that in your 30s anymore. You can't be doing that when you're already are who you are. You know, what you have to do. And this is, this is something that a lot of fighters actually resort to when they get older. They change their style, what got him there. Punchers try to become boxers and boxers try to become punchers because that's how they stay in the game and the legs start fading. So they have to change into something they're not. Chris Dubin Jr., he just changed because he thought he can be Roy Jones Jr. And that's not the case. You're not him. You're not Floyd May, whether you're not Sugar Relandard. You've got to pick the little things that work from you from other great fighters and then mend them to like what's

yourself you got to be yourself in this game all right so what about liam smith because right now he's kind of sitting in the catbird seat at the moment like he what's he catbird it means he's in a good position i'm not explaining every uh turn of phrase to you um he has some momentum here he's contract contractually obligated to fight chris eubank junior in a rematch if you bank uh exercise it. If he doesn't, though, there's pretty good options out there for him. Liam Smith's talking about Ganadi Golofkin, who still has two middleweight titles. You know, Connor Ben is still out there. Smith, Ben, if Ben, can get back in, is a good domestic fight.

So what about Liam Smith? What should be next for him? Either of those fights, I think it makes sense. If this was three, four years ago, I would say stay away from Golofkin, but this version of Golofkin, this 40-year-old version of Galafkin who's vulnerable to the body. Liam Smith is an excellent body puncher. It's great on the inside. You give him a shot in that fight?

I give him a shot to really look good, yeah, and maybe go the distance, yes, because he's a volume puncher, and he doesn't really give you space to unleash that power. Now, Golofkin is a power puncher on the inside, but we've noticed in his last couple of fights, he likes to keep the fight on the outside now. He doesn't want him to get on the inside

because we've seen him get touched the body. Smith is an excellent body puncher. So, yeah, I give Smith an excellent chance of hanging with a former monster like Golovkin, maybe even going the distance, but I like that fight. I love the Connor Ben fight because that makes total sense

across the pond. They can sell out an arena, especially with all the negative publicity that Connor Ben's been having. And, you know, all the fans that he had now, they're going to be hating. They're going to be going against him now. So again, they're still going to sell tickets.

And Liam Smith, he has a second or maybe even third chance at doing something and making some money and still carrying that. legacy of his family and his name. We talked about this last week, but what's your take on the Connor Bend situation? I mean, he's out there saying he has been vindicated. Supposedly, there is a 200-plus page report that for some reason the WBC has.

WBC is not a state or country commission. The WBC really can't say one way or the other whether a guy is eligible to fight or not. They are a sanctioning body that sanctions Ben in its rankings. But Ben's out there saying science has set me free. Are you buying any of that? And is there, in your mind, has he served enough time on, you know, to be punished for this? Fuck no. Hell no.

Rubbish, as they say across the phone. That's rubbish. Have you heard him apologize? No, I have. I have not either. All I already said is like, I didn't do it. I didn't do it. But two tests proved that the science caught him.

And it was Chris Eubank Jr. that actually tweeted that. I love that tweet. He said science vindicated. Connor Ben said science vindicated him. And then U.Bank Jr. says, well, it's also science that pop you. You cheat. And yeah, man, when it comes to science, you know, you can't cheat it. It is what it is. It's right there. It's facts. It's like math, which I suck at. But math is not going to lie to you if you follow all the steps. So you follow the trail and it's going to lead you to the truth. And he got caught not once but twice. Now all he has to do to get back and vindicate himself is not by lying, not by saying, what about this, what about this, and I prove my, no, apologize. Say it's, you know, I'm young, I'm foolish, I'm ambitious.

I try to take a shortcut. I'm sorry. From now on, I will do Vata testing year round. I will do this. I would do that. That's how you get your respect back. You're not going to get it by trying to sweep it under the rug because it's not working for and you're not going to get it by coming back and knocking out some,

some, you know, French contender because people are still going to have that hate for you, that despise for you. You turn a lot of people down, Mannix. Whenever you have fans that admired you, that follow your career and they support you from the beginning, and then you cheat them,

it's not only cheating the sport and cheating yourself and your team and your family, you're cheating people that have put, they have invested. They invested something. Invested their emotional. in you and you just slap them in the face. You're not Superman. You're not that athlete that they look up to.

You're a cheat and that's how you got there. And then it just, it just, it takes it away from fans. All right. Let's keep it in the UK for this next topic. Archer Betterbeyev, the three belt 175 pound champion. He is over in London to take on Anthony Yard. Anthony Yard people in the U.S. probably remember Anthony Yard as an opponent of Sergey Kovalev back in 2019.

Yard had some success. in the first half of that fight, eventually got knocked out. He has one loss, a split decision to Leiden Johnson since then. He did avenge that loss with a knockout win over Johnson. That fight's going to be on ESPN Plus, by the way. All due respect to our friends over at Top Rank, to Evan Korn, the great publicist over at Top Rank, to all the good people over at Queensberry,

who are billing this as a puncher versus puncher fight. this is not this is not a puncher versus puncher fight because in one corner you've got one of the most devastating punchers at least in light heavyweight history and the only active champion in

Betterbeyev who has all of his wins coming by way of knockout. In the other corner you've got a guy with some knockouts but they've come against a lot of knockouts. Yeah but they've come against nobody's at this point. They've come against nobody's. So

you know there's this this this billing for this fight that we're going to see two big punchers go at it in the middle of the ring no chance that happens no chance archer better bb is going to come forward like archer better bf does and maybe in the first few moments yard throw some punches back but once he tastes that power he ain't banging with better biv he's going to try to box with better bbf and we've seen that hasn't worked at this point either so i i like Beav massively in this fight. I think this is a mismatch. You know, Yard, he's the mandatory, so it's his position to be in, but I think this is a pretty significant mismatch. It won't be a mismatch for about seven rounds. I see Anthony Yard doing well. I see him winning rounds. I see

him actually outboxing Bedr Bav in like three or four rounds because Berv is somewhat of a slow starter because he's not a volume puncher. He just, he wants to hit something solid. You know, He's kind of like a Joe Smith. He's kind of like a Joe Smith Jr. That type power only with even more power and more technique and more conviction. You think Anthony Yard has more power than Joe Smith? No way. I didn't say that.

I said Better B. F is similar to a Joe Smith Jr. As far as his heavy hands. No, no, no. Yard has hard. He has good pop. He has hard punches. But you can't compare the two.

And you can't compare the two's resumes either. So who are you knocking out? First of all, when you look at a knockout ratio as like, okay, who did you knock out? out and then you look at the people that he knocked out and say okay how many times have they been knocked out that's how you actually start realizing how hard a puncher is when you look into the numbers you look at better be of names and numbers and resumes he'd knocked out guys that never been knocked out you know that's what you respect when it comes to when it comes to yard he has actually you know fought and knocked out fighters that are either already been stopped or already had

you know multiple losses and they're not on the championship level you look at anthony yard resume, you realize why he has a high knockout percentage and doesn't take away from the fact that he is a hard puncher. But he's not a power puncher, and he's not going to be a top rated power puncher if you rank the top, you know, 25

or 30 or even 40 punters, because the resume doesn't match the knockout ratio on Yards. After getting knocked out by Kovlev, Yard fought a guy named Diego Ramirez who was 4, 48, and 3. In his next fight, he fought someone named Dex Spellman, who was

16 and 4. Then he fought Lyndon Arthur, who he lost to by split decision. Two fights later, he knocked out Arthur. So his last, I'm looking it up right now, six, eight, his last nine fights, I think it is, or, yeah, 10 maybe. His last 10 wins have come by knockup, but none of them have come against someone at a high level. Right. But I'm just trying to make the point that this is not puncher versus puncher. Like, Betterbeyev is knocking out Alexander Vostick. He is knocking out Joe Smith. He's knocking out Marcus Brown. And you're right. The Smith fight was something of an aberration because you don't see better BF pick up a lot of early round knockouts. He usually wears guys down with his pressure and with his heavy hands, just like he did with Vostick,

who was undefeated at a world champion at that time. Marcus Brown, pretty high-level guy at that time, just wears them down over the course of the fight. I tend to agree with you. I don't think it's going to be a first or second round knockout unless unless yard practices what he preaches because yard's talking about banging in this fight like he's talking about you know cracking with better be up that would be suicide that would be boxing suicide that would be the end of this career he even decides to do this because yard you know he's he has good talent he has good hand speed he has he has a defense he's athletic he is strong he does have pop he's not a crushing punch it but he has pop and he's a smart he has a good fight IQ all right and he has a long strong

jab it's pretty educated he's gonna do well against better be it just like he was doing well against covalov when he had his moments and he was able to you know covalove was at the back end of his career and even though better be of his older he's still a crusher still a champion and yeah but he had been knocked out before uh by aletia alvarez like covalve was not the crusher he was the he did win but that's kind of the problem that's sort of my problem with him he goes so What he's trying to say? He wasn't what he used to, but he's still won. Yes, he still won.

And that is the only example we have Vanperny Yard fighting at the highest levels of boxing. Yard is not going to paying with better behavior. So get that out of the equation. Look, this is how it's being built. He's going to come out. What I am going to tell you is Yard wins that first round. Okay. Yard wins that first round.

Second one might be close. Third one, he might, you know, be close. I see him winning two out of the first five rounds. And then after that, it's going to start getting violent. And once he starts getting hit in the shoulders and he can't move as much anymore, he's getting cornered against the ropes. He's going to be back against the ropes more than he wants to.

And he can't keep the fight in the middle of the ring. That's when better be it, and his power is going to overwhelm him. All right, let's talk about the fight that we're calling this weekend. Alexis Rocha, George Ashey, YouTube Theater in Los Angeles. That's a fight that's going to air on DeZone. Rocha is an interesting prospect slash contender. It was just back in 2020, that he lost his first fight, a decision defeat to Rashidi Ellis.

A legitimate loss. Ellis won that fight clean. Rocha, though, has come back. He's won five fights in a row. He's climbed the rankings. He ranks, I believe, third in, I want to say the WBO rankings. He's in the top 15 in the WBA. He's got some momentum right now behind his career.

Let's start here. The fighter we're going to see on Saturday, how different is he from the fighter we saw lose to Rashidi Ellis? Have you seen improvements from Alexis Roadshow over the last two and a half years? Stylistically, I think we have the same fighter. I mean, he had his moments against Ellis as just Ellis was a very special talent, very fast. And you have to have a game plan against a fighter like Ellis. You can't just, you know, do what you did in your past fights that were successful.

So he came up short with Ellis. Okay, no shame there. Now he has five straight wins, you know, a couple by knockout, and he's been doing it with smart pressure, not neglecting the jab, Once he's in the inside, he's not just loading up with the same punch. He's throwing right hooks, right uppercus, and then digging down to the body, cutting off the ring a little bit more. But that's not stylistically that he changed.

It's just now he has confidence. When you come up short, you realize, okay, where did I come up short? I didn't cut off the ring against Ellis. I didn't throw enough punches. I didn't throw enough combinations. I let him slip out to the left. I need to throw more left hands that way and keep them here. More body shots.

These are things that you register in your next fight. you implement that. That's what he did. So he's been the goods. Even as an amateur, he's been the goods. He's one of these talented, gifted fighters. He just came up short against an exceptional athletic talent undefeated in Ellis. No shame there.

And that's the main thing that I want to touch on here. Roach is the same fighter he was when he lost to Ellis, but he's not the same man, if that makes sense. Anybody else would have taken that loss, and they would have felt sorry for themselves. I shouldn't have lost that way. I shouldn't have came up short, you know, before a championship. I lost my zero.

Rocha is happy that he lost that undefeated zero. He didn't like the pressure of it, you know, and he's only gotten better so that L on his record is for learning instead of losing. That's character for you. That's mentality. That's mentality. That's the type of mentality you have to have to get back to a championship or get back, get to a championship when you've come up short getting to a championship.

What I like about Rocha, to your point, is he did just kind of pick himself back up and get back into the mix. He fought, I think, eight months after that loss to Richie D. Ellis, and he has fought five times already since that defeat. Whereas Ellis, he's only had two fights. He had one round in a fight like a year or so ago, and then he had that recent defeat on the PBC card. And inactivity kills a fighter. And Alexis Roach has been active, but I think he's benefited greatly from that. So he's now in a position, Sergio, where in the next year or so, he's probably going to get a world title opportunity. Are we looking at a world champion in Alexis Georgia? Yes. He has the amateur pedigree. He has the right promoter.

He has the right matchmaker. He's the right team, the right coach, and Hector Lopez. And he comes from boxing family, his younger brother, Ronnie Reels, you know, title challenger. He has all the things that you need to check to be a world champion. and he still has the hunger. He still has the youth, and he's getting better. So, yes, and like you like to say, once those welterweight belts fracture,

you know, once they are ripped from the hands of Spence and Crawford, which is very soon, guys like Boots andes are going to be fighting for him. Virgil Ortiz, and guess who else is in line? Alexis Rocha. You know, if Connor Ben gets his stuff together, I can see him getting a crack at a welterweight title. And those belts may have already fractured at this point.

Spence in his next fight is going to fight at 154 pounds. I just have a hard time seeing a fighter like him come back to 147 to defend his titles against like a Boots Ennis or a Virgil Ortiz. Dude, Rocha? No, I'm saying Spence coming back down. No way, but Rocha will. But this is what I'm talking about. This is what I'm getting to.

So, you know, Boots Ennis has a belt at 147 right now. It's an interim title. I expect that title to become a full title in the next six months. You've got the Ortiz Stanionis fight that's going to happen in late April. April, I expect the winner of that fight to be the full title holder. You know what I'd like to see, Sergio? I'd like to see Rocha fight on the undercard of Stanionis versus Ortiz. I'd like to see him be the co-main event of that fight against a credible former world

title holder, former world title challenger, because that's kind of a hole in his resume right now. It's not for lack of trying. You know, as often happens with young fighters, Roach's team, Golden Boy, they have tried to make a more significant fight for him. Guys aren't all interested in getting in the ring, but he needs that former title holder on his resume. I'd like to see him get that fight in April on the undercard that Ortiz fight.

And if Ortiz comes out of it, and that's no easy task, but if Ortiz comes out of that, and if Rocha comes out of that, suddenly Golden Boy has on their hands an easy to make world title fight. You can do Ortiz against Rocha, either in Texas or in. Southern California, you can do it in some good places that will sell tickets, and that to me is a great fight. I don't know if Rocha can win that fight because Ortiz is a beast, but that right now with both those guys in their mid-20s, that's a great fight.

Great fight, but a couple of things stand out. One, Rocha already got the limelight of being the headliner. He did it against Blair Cobbs, and now he's going to get it in his next fight this Saturday. So once you're the headliner, you don't want to relegate yourself to be the co-main. Don't interrupt me, Mannix. I'm your guest. I'm getting to the point, though. Doesn't he strike you, though, as a guy?

Yes, and that's what I was about to say. That's where character comes in. That's where his team comes in. That's where Hector Lopez comes in. That's what the Golden Boy matchmakers come in. That's where the promoter comes in. That's where he says, I don't care. I just want to fight.

Just like he did after his loss, he picked himself up by his root straps, and he said, I'm just going to fight wherever they put in front of me. Joe Schmo, I don't care. I'm knocking him out. And he's gone through five, and now he has this opportunity where he's headlining again. he's the type of guy that would swallow his pride because pride means nothing in boxing,

swallow his pride just to get to the goal. And the goal is these names that we just mentioned. So if it means fighting on a popular undercard and Virgil Ortiz Jr. is not a nationwide popular fighter, but he is in Texas. And he has a lot of eyeballs on him. He has that 100% knockout ratio. If you can be the co-main event to that and have a knockout, an impressive win, and the winner of that fight has an impressive win, there it is.

That is how you promote a fight. That's how you keep yourself in the loop instead of being prideful and saying, nah, I'm a main event guy. I'll wait and be inactive. Rocha strikes me as someone who's opportunistic. You go back to the fight in the spring where Ortiz dropped out against Mike.

Use another word. Opportunistic means a little bit too. No, it is. I think he's hungry. It's a big difference. Hungry and opportunistic. Listen, hear me out. He senses when an opportunity

is in front of him. Like when he got bumped up to the main event to fight Blair Cobbs back in the spring, he knew that was a big moment. He went out, fought brilliantly, put together the biggest win of his career on the biggest stage. This fight coming up. That was confidence and the right place at the right time. But this fight coming up this weekend. This wasn't Alexis Roach's date.

This was Ryan Garcia's date. Golden Boy calls him five weeks ago and says, hey, we can do a fight for you on 128. He says, yes, give me whoever you got. It was originally Anthony Young. you know, fine fighter coming off that win against Saddam Ali a couple of years ago. Young drops out. All of a sudden you got George Ashy. Rocha knows the value of staying busy and staying front and center in front of people.

And moving up the rankings as well. So that's a long way of saying, I don't think you'd have a problem fighting on Virgil Ortiz's undercard. I really don't think so. Okay, but you're a man of words, supposedly. Opportunistic just seems negative. So get your thesaurus. And there's another word that's actually positive. That can be compliment to a hungry fighter, not opportunistic.

That just seems... You are opportunistic because you're sitting here with me and listening to an audience of hundreds of thousands of people. No, you're the one that keeps begging me to be on your show because you know that I bring the ratings. And what's up with the sofa? See, look at how they're paying you now. You go to living spaces and get a brand new sofa for your show.

It's for YouTube. I bring the numbers, baby. We're on YouTube. You know that, right? We're big on YouTube these days. All right, a couple more things I want to get to. Edgar Berlanga is now a free agent. Keith Idick and I talked about this last week.

He's separated from top rank. He is now fielding offers from all of the top promoters, whether it's Golden Boy, Matchroom, not top rank, obviously. Golden Boy, Matchroom, PBC, certainly in that mix. His agent or his manager, Keith Conley, is running point on all that. I've been told there's not going to be a decision reached for at least a couple of weeks. They're going to figure this out and then get him back in the ring sometime soon after. But if you read your Belango, who would you sign with?

What promotional outfit, what path makes the most sense? Every fighter that has reached the end of a contract has been in this position, and you have to go where the money is. So whatever promoter is going to offer you the best deal, you want the shortest amount of years, but the most amount of money and guarantees in the fights and guarantee your pay goes up if your opponents go up and championship and so on and so forth. So over is going to pay more one.

but if our team Berlanga, if I was in charge of his management, I would get them out of New York and hear me out here, Manix, you know, once you reach your peak in that, you know, in the East Coast, in New York, in Philadelphia, you got to branch out, man, you got to become more than that. We know that those are big, major boxing hubs, but you got to go somewhere else. You either got to go to Texas or California if you're an East Coast board.

That's where you're going to get hungry, young fighters that aren't about the swag, I'm not about that East Coast. They're not about that culture. It's about working hard, sparring hard, and once that phone rings, you're ready to fight. I think Burlanga needs to get out of the East Coast. You know, I just don't, I don't like the tension he gets in New York City. I don't like the swag that he has.

He's already had some bad performances. That should be a wake-up call before he tastes a loss. So he should get out of that element and go to a place where there's just hungry fighters. L.A., San Antonio, Houston. You know, that's where I think he needs to go. Go west, young man, like those 49ers digging for gold in 1800s. All right. Go west.

Are you done? You've already, your first sentence defeated your point. You said, you know, a fighter that has peaked in a certain area. He hasn't peaked anywhere. He is starting to draw crowds in New York City, which is not nothing. There's only a handful of fighters in boxing that can draw a sellout or close to sell-o crowd at the Hulu Theater in New York. That's a real thing.

That's why top rank wanted to hang on to him. So I think the exact opposite of it. And how has he looked in the last couple of performances? It's not about that. No, it is about that. No, we're having two different discussions. You want him to go train in California. That's a great idea.

Like, I'm fine with that. Go try different styles. Go to different camps, do all that. But when it comes down to fighting, you stay in New York City. You build your fan base up to the point where maybe you become Miguel Cotto in like 10, 5 years. When you can consistently sell out as a square guard. but I would love to see Berlanga in southern California or in Las Vegas training. One of those two places.

Training there is fine. Fighting. You stay in New York. Keep building up your brand. Now, back to the original question of who he should sign with. BBC has the top guys at 168. They've got Caleb Plant. They've got David Benavides.

They're working right now with Demetrius Andrade. If you want to fight a top guy, that's where you go. I don't get the sense that Berlanga wants that right now. You know, he still is in that prospect slash contender phase where he's not on the elite level at that point. So I don't think he's looking, he could still sign with PBC, but I don't think he's looking to take a Plant Benevita's Andrei type fight, at least not in the next year. The promoter that makes the most sense to me, at least on paper, is Golden Boy. Because Golden Boy's got Jaime Mungia. And a Jaime Mungia, Edgar Berlanga fight, while not being a fight featuring two of the best in their respective weight classes,

is a fun fight, and it's an incredibly marketable fight. Whether you do it in Southern California and get those Mexican fans, or you do it in New York and get those Puerto Rican fans, Mexico versus Puerto Rico is big, and that is a rockam-sockham robot fight for as long as it lasts. That's what I like. So if Golden Boy can come up with the money to offer Berlanga some kind of like Demetri's Ballard-type fight

to shake the rust off and get back into the ring with the promise and the guarantee that you've got a Mungia fight, at the end of the year, that's a pretty damn good year, Greg, your Burlanga. For Berlanga and Keith Conley, who manages them, they're going to run into two things.

I would go to PBC, because that's where the champions are, and you're going to make a lot of money in PBC, but you're not going to be as active. So you've got to choose. Do you want the money and the inactivity, or do you want the activity? I think the money's there with Mungia, though.

The money's going to be there. Yeah, but you're not going to get Mungia up right off the bat. You're going to probably have to fight once, maybe twice, and those pay days aren't going to be what you're going to get. Okay, but you do Demetrius Ballard in New York and, you know. This is what you got to decide. Do you want money or do you want activity?

I don't think they're mutually exclusive. I think you could have both. Listen, I've signed with PBC and I sign with Golden Boy. I can tell you. I signed with Lou DeBelle. I've been all over the place. I can tell you the difference. You've turned down money before.

A lot of it. You're either going to be active and get a little bit less money or you're going to be inactive and get paid a lot of money. So you got to make that choice. All right. So what would you do? If I was Berlanga, I would go to where the titles are. PBC.

Yeah, but he's not, like, my point is, like, he's not in a position right now where I think he wants to fight for titles. I don't think he's... He's not far away from any yards, what, 19 and no? He's top five in some of these rankings. I get that, but I think... He's one or two fights away from championship. Sergio, at least for the next year.

We're talking to a three-year deal. I'm not talking to a three-year deal. Two-year deal. I'm not even talking to a two-fight deal with Golden Boy. I'm saying you do Burlang. You do the fight with somebody like Ballard. Golden Boy won't go for that. Well, whatever, then you don't do it with him.

And then you do a Mungia fight. And if he can find a way to beat Mungia, you know what's waiting the end of that rainbow? Canelo Alvarez. Canelo Alvarez could be at the end of that rainbow in 2024 because Berlanga would be very highly ranked if he beat Mungia. And if you're Canelo and you're looking around for a marketable fight, maybe one that's not especially tough.

Buranga might be out there. That's a good fight in New York. You're just loco, man. Get the fuck out of here, man. And the words of Canelo Alvarez. Like Scarface. I know it's Canelo when he was talking to Dimitrius. Andrade, but look, I think you're wrong there.

I think if you want somebody that's a popular fighter, Canella's not going to go for Berlanga in New York. Berlanga's not known anywhere outside of New York. He goes for a John Ryder across the pond, you know, promoted, put in front of 30, 40,000 fans. That's what you do whenever you're thinking like a promoter, thinking like a superstar. You don't go for a dangerous up-and-comer like Berlanga.

Even if Berlanga does beat Mungia. I think it's not the way to go. Burlanga should be focusing on whether, like I said, activity or then belts. The belts are with PBC. I could see him fighting, you know, a faded Dorel. I could see him fighting, you know, former. Listen, you said a two-fight deal, right? Right, yes.

I could see him fighting a faded former champion and then getting a winner of like a plant, a Benavides or even a Charlo. I could see a Charlo stepping up and fighting a Berlanga, a guy that has power but is not proven that hasn't gone through the fire that's already been somewhat exposed, if you want to say that. You know, I can totally see one of these champions going out for him. I just think the number one thing he needs to do, Maddo, is get out of New York. I've seen too many fighters.

Get out of New York to train, not to fight. I've seen too many fighters stay in the same place and then get eaten up. They get eaten up by either their friends, the nightlife, the popularity, all that stuff. They get eaten alive. Look at Curtis Stevens, man. He was supposed to be a big deal out of New York. He didn't pan out. Look at Jaydon Codrington.

These guys were like the chin checkers. Curtis Stevens got his opportunities. Never became a champion, man. Right, but that's because he wasn't, he didn't have what it takes. He got opportunities against David Lemieux. He got opportunities against Gennady Golofkin. He had opportunities, and it just didn't work out. It's not that he can get them fighting out of New York.

In fact, he built himself into a, you know, second-tier star fighting in New York. You asked me, and I'm your guest, What would I do? I would get out of New York. New York has a lot of swag. It has a lot of culture, has a lot of like, we can take on the world type. No, man, you can't take on everybody. You got to get out of that little mindset.

You're a big fish in a small pond. Go somewhere where there's big dogs that are just training 100%, like 100% hungry, waiting for that phone car. You're going to get guys like that in Southern California, in Las Vegas, somewhere in Texas, but he needs to get out of New York. That's my advice. All right. I want to ask you about something Deonti Wilder said in the past week.

Wilder was speaking with Eli Secbach on his YouTube channel, and he was talking about the upcoming Tyson Fury Alexander Usik fight, which we believe is going to get finalized over the next month or so. Wilder said, quote, that's a 50-50 fight. Depends on who's going to cheat the hardest. That's what it is. It depends on who's going to cheat the hardest. Sergio, it's not surprising that Wilder is once again targeting Tyson Fury with cheating allegations.

But now he's lumping in Alexander Usik. Now he's bringing Usik into this, a former Olympic gold medalist who, to my knowledge, has not had so much as a whiff of controversy around him regarding performance and dancing drugs. What is Deonti Wilder doing? Being himself. I mean, look at what happened when he got knocked out by Tyson Fury. He brought up every excuse in the book. And this is what happens when you have a fighter that carries himself like a God.

And that's what he does. The way he comes out into the ring, the way he talks, you know, the way he carries himself and good for him, it works for him. But once fighters like that get beaten, not even beaten, but knocked out and embarrassed, they get that aura taken away from them, menicks, and they're not the same. Think Mike Tyson, you know, think even on a lower level. or James Kirkland, think of any puncher, George Foreman, any puncher that gets finally beaten,

they need to pick themselves up because they know they're not, they can be stopped, you know, so whenever it comes to power, anytime that's not enough for you, you've got to find something else. Deonti Wilder started late in boxing, so power got him a long way, that long jab, his size, only heavy weights could get away with that. But now that he has been knocked out, now that he has been on the losing, side more than once. He needs to regroup. He can't be pointing fingers anymore. He's a man in his mid-30s. He's already made a boatload of money. He's ahead of the game. An Olympian, a bronze medalist,

a world champion, a multimillionaire. Why are you pointing fingers and accusing people of cheating? That's a character flaw. That's a character flaw. And that's something that he needs to stop doing, man. He needs to get back in the gym. He needs to start knocking guys out again and just being himself without accusing people of things that aren't proven. That just makes you look bad. That makes, you know, the bronze bomber look bad. He shouldn't be doing that. I like Deonté Wilder a lot.

And I've got a long history with him that dates back to the 2008 Olympics when I covered him before that. I've been down to Alabama multiple times. I've written multiple magazine stories on Deontay Wilder. I've always found him to be a really thoughtful guy and, frankly, a high-capable. character guy who has done a lot of things that you respect, particularly how he did everything he could early on his career to make sure his family, specifically his daughter, was born with Spina Bifida, was taken care of, had all the right medical treatments that she needed. But I got to be honest, Deonté Wilder, to me, is really tarnishing his legacy, you know,

with some of the things he's been saying over the last. Reputation, for sure. Legacy set. Repetation, maybe. reputation, legacy, they're kind of intertwined to me. Like he just has gone off the deep end with some of this stuff. Now, if you want to say Tyson Vury is a drug cheat, well, there was no evidence of it in the buildup or in the aftermath of the three fights he had with Wilder, but Fury's had his own history of drug use in the past. So there's at least a loose connection of that.

You can make one. But, you know, when he started releasing those videos of, you know, Fury looking like he was wearing his gloves differently or someone in Fury's corner kind of manipulating the gloves. That was crazy. He blamed his former trainer, Mark Breland, for spiking his drink at one point. And now he's going after Usik, who has been, by all accounts, a clean athlete for his entire career, who has done nothing but take on top challenge after top challenge.

Like now we're going after Alex and Usik. I don't get it. I don't know what is going through the mind of Deonté Wilder these days. And I wish, you know, he does these interviews and they're fine, but he's not doing them with anyone who's going to push back. And I'd like to just be like, Deonti, if you're going to call Usik a cheater, where's your evidence? Like, what are you basing that on?

Because there's nothing. There's nothing to base that on right now. And I hate to see that with Wilder because he has been and always will be one of the biggest punchers in the heavyweight division. He is most likely going to go into the Hall of Fame on that first ballot. But, man, he is going to be remembered Sergio for this. This conduct over the last couple of years is going to be a stink attached to him. And I don't think it's a necessary one for him to have.

I agree. And that all comes down to character. And guys like that are accustomed to knocking out everybody, when they come up short, they have to blame people. Actually, any professional fighter, once they lose on the championship level, they need to find out, why did they lose? Well, it must have been my trainer's fault. It must have been my manager's fault, my promoters.

They have to blame somebody. You're playing the trainer, but don't say the trainer spiked your drink. That was nuts, man. Mark Breland is one of the most respected. Classy guy. Not only as a boxer, as a gold medalist, as a champion, but as a trainer. I mean, no, that was wrong. That was wrong.

That was just wrong. That was just wrong. J.D.'s helped discover him. Did a great job. But Mark Breland, that's who did it. Look, but yeah, I get it. You could come a long way as a heavy way with a jab and a right hand. That's it.

And that's what Mark Vuelan had. You're right. And Wilder came a long way with a limited ability on the late start that he had. And now that he came up short after 40-plus fights and all the money in the world, he needed to blame somebody. And not only did he blame somebody, he blamed a lot of somebody and a lot of things. That's just him having to convince himself because he needs to blame somebody for him coming up short. That's a character flaw.

talk about his character and what he's done on his personal life, that's great. I'm not saying that the man doesn't have character. I'm just saying as a fighter, he needs to really correct himself. He needs to only blame himself. That's real character when you could reflect on yourself. That's all introspective. That's when you actually become a real man and mature. It's like, you know what? I need to stop blaming people. It's my fault. Let me get back to work. Let me get back to the World Title Fight. I'm not going to blame anybody by myself. That's character. Losing to Fury, by the way, is not some stain on his record. Like, he lost to a generationally good heavyweight,

and he had that heavyweight down multiple times in the last couple of fights. But his pride won't let him get past that, and that is somewhat of a character flaw. That's pride. You know, when you can't swallow your pride to actually chase what you're actually going for, you're hindering yourself. That's immaturity. So he needs to get past that.

He got knocked. out by the better fighter. He got beaten by the better fighter. Not once, not twice, but three times. Well, twice at least. He got beat. That's it. You got, you lost to the better man who happens to be the heavyweight champion of the world, like you said, no shame there. Now go knock out the second best heavyweight in the world. Go knock out the third and fourth. You're still going to be the man. You're still going to be one of the hardest, scariest punches. You're still going to be the bronze bomber, bomb squad, everyone following you. But you need to stop pointing fingers because that diminishes the aura that you created as a huge puncher.

All right. Last thing, you want to react to a little breaking news here on the podcast? Sure. I am going to give you a fight that I'm told is happening in the first quarter of 23. Zerta Ramirez is back in training with plans to fight again at 175. He was last seen losing to Dimitri Bevel over in Abu Dhabi. but he is back

and his opponent in his first fight back Gabe Rosado who I'm told is at Wildcard right now training with Freddie Roach for that fight

your thoughts I don't like that fight and I don't like I don't like the way that Gabriel Rosado's career is ending I mean he started boxing late

he didn't have many amateur fights so I can see why he had so many losses you know coming up but now he has over a dozen

losses. Now his scar tissue doesn't hold up. Now he's been stopped. Now we know what Gabriel's Idol is. He's not a journeyman. He's more of a gatekeeper. More respectable gatekeeper. He's not a fighter that can't

win a championship. It's just a fighter that couldn't cross that. He could compete with champions. So he was just, he's one of these guys that's a blue collared, hardworking, tough guy, but never became a champion. And he's 35 years old already. He's already been stopped. He's already been blood. He's already been beaten convincingly.

What is he going to do against a bigger, stronger champion in Soudlo Ramirez? There's no win in that. The only thing that he's winning is another paycheck, another fight, but it's not going to be a good look for him, especially after Rosado has already mentioned retiring. Anytime you bring up the R word, you're already one. A couple times. You're already one foot out the door. So that's dangerous when you're a fighter, when you're already thinking about retirement. no good. You've already been bloodied and cut up and and beat up. Plenty of times you have a career.

Yes, you're a warrior, but you only have so many wars in you. I hate this idea. Hesula Ramirez is a volume active, bigger puncher. He's going to be way bigger. And then once he, once he rehydrates, he's going to be 30 pounds heavier than Gabe. I don't

like this fight for him. We just see Gabriel Rosado going in the wrong direction after the tough guy legacy and the wars that he's given us. He's the people champ, man. He's the people's champ. Why are you still hanging around in your, in your mid-30s just for a paycheck? No, you made enough money. I'm trying to remember, has Gabe even fought 175 before? Like, he's a 168. He was a, he was a huge, he was a huge, 54. He was a huge 54. He was a big, big 60-pounder, and he can hang as a 68-pounder. But 75 against the guy that's going to weigh two bills.

That's a different story, because Gabe's not a puncher. He wasn't even a puncher at 154. Look, if you listen to people around Gabe Rosado, and I've asked him. a few this week. One thing they'll tell you is that, look, he felt he had a terrible camp going into that fight against Ali Akpadov. He changed up his team. He's back with Freddie full time. He went with a new strength of conditioning coach. All the things you hear when a guy loses a fight. But the reality, Sergio, is he's lost three straight. He's lost four out of five. He's lost five out of seven. If not for that, you know, one-punch, spectacular knockout win over a Bechtemar Melakusia, which give him credit for. That was a big shot.

he would have been on a five-fight losing streak right now. I just, that screams walk away. And now to move up to a bigger weight class, I understand why Zerto wants it. I get that because it's a relatively easy comeback fight against the guy who still has a name. But unless the pay is enormous, and I can't believe that it is,

I don't know why Gabe Rosado is doing this. I don't either, unless it's neat, and I doubt it's need because Gabe lives well. If I have to say why, it's a fighting spirit. And every great warrior has that warrior in him where they think they have one more fight, one more fight. And as long as they keep getting opportunities, and as long as they're not getting brutally beaten down or knocked out,

they think, okay, well, I had a bad camp. I changed my trainer. Rosado's changed his trainer so many times I forgot. You know, he's had so many reinventions that I forgot. He's had so many different places of, of training from the east coast to the west coast to all over the place. That's not it, man. I just think it's his own conviction that's going to get him hurt.

It's the fact that he's so adamant of being hungry and a warrior, and I can do it. You know, I can knock out someone like this and get another big payday. That's going to get him hurt. He's at a very good career, but, and I say this respectfully to him, that career should be over. He should be doing other things and not putting himself in position to get hurt against a big, strong puncher like Zerdo Ramirez. Volume puncher. So maybe he can fight you in a senior tour.

Hey, listen, I like Gabe. And if I ever come back, that's the type of fighter I would come back to or Jake Paul. Do people, no, can I just, we just tell people that I was at a club show in Boston last weekend and I ran into Peter Manfredo. Or Peter Manfredo. And Peter Manfredo wanted me to tell you that once he gets like some nervous you dealt within his leg, he's ready to go. You Boston boys all take care of each other, man.

You want the fight. I would wipe the floor with Peter Manfredo for a fourth time because I beat him in the national golden gloves. I beat him twice as a professional. He wants it. He can get it. Come on, Petey. 2000. You Boston boys are ridiculous.

And when we come back, my conversation with Oscar Delahoya. While the NFL conference championships are this Sunday and you can enjoy more thrills than a two-minute drill on Fandul, it doesn't matter if you're new to Fandul. It doesn't matter if you're new to Fandul. or have already started an account because they're giving all customers a no sweat same game parlay. That means you'll get bonus bets back if your conference championship same game parlay doesn't hit. Bet on everything from the money line to point spreads to which player will score a touchdown. Or if you can't decide, you can ride with thousands of other fans and bet popular same game parlay is

already made for you. New to Fan Duel, sign up with the promo code boxing to see for yourself why it's America's number one sportsbook. And if you already have FanDuel, you can start building your no sweat, same game parlay today. Make every moment more with FanDuel, the official sportsbook partner of the NFL. All right, joining me now, the Golden Boy himself, Oscar Delahoya, founder, CEO, Golden Boy promotions. He and Golden Boy will kick off the 2003-Zone U.S. schedule on Saturday when Alexis Roachow, one of the better young fighters at 147 pounds, he returns at the YouTube theater against George Ashey, who is a late replacement for Anthony Young. So Oscar, let's just

start right there. People probably look at George Ashy's box rack and be like, oh, this is going to be a walkover fight. But when you have a late replacement, which I'm sure you've experienced at different times in your career, what kind of adjustment is that for a fighter? Well, for Rocha, obviously It's very unfortunate because he's been training for his previous opponent. But I'm actually a little worried about Ashley because when I hear the name and from Ghana, you have to worry. These fighters are always in shape. They come to fight.

Ashley's never been stopped, which obviously tells you a lot about his stamina, about his chin, about his desire to win. But that's what fighters from Ghana are. I mean, they're fighters who have a lot of hearts. So it should be a very entertaining fight. I think that Rocha has to make a lot of adjustments. But I think the fact that Rocha is a fighter who comes forward, who throws a lot of punches, who wants to give the fans a great show

because he's fighting in L.A., he's fighting in his hometown. But I'll tell you one thing. I think Ashley is going to give him a room for his money. It's going to be a good fight. I hope he comes to fight, Oscar, because I do have some PTSD from Emmanuel Tago there, who said he was going to come to fight, and then didn't come back. Yeah, well, he felt Ryan's power, and so he had no choice but to run. I want to ask you about Ryan in a minute, but keeping it with Rocha,

five and oh since that loss to Rescudielis has been climbing the rankings. I think he's number three right now, the WBO rankings, top 15 in, I think it's WBO. BA as well. What have you seen from him in the aftermath of that loss to Ellis? A lot of maturity. I've seen in him the fire that maybe wasn't there when he fought when he fought Rashidi Alice. You know, and I was actually hoping we can get that rematch with Rashidi Alice, but as we saw a few weeks ago, he got knocked out. But I think Rocha has more confidence. I think Rocha now knows what it takes to be at the top level. He's climbing the ladder.

He's knocking on the door. I think in the next two or three fights, he'll be fighting for a world title. So, you know, an easy one to make would probably be a matchup with Virgil Ortiz. If Virgil can beat Stanionis, and I think we all are kind of looking at Spence and saying he's probably not going to come back to 147. That could be a full title by the summer. How do you feel about a Rocha Ortiz fight at the end of this year? If Rocha keeps winning, maybe if he wins a title eliminator, but look, Rocha is like I said, knocking on the door of everyone. He's right there in line to fight the very best.

but look Virgo Ortiz everybody wants to see him fights you know the very best the top of the top the creme de la creme right like the like they say like Crawford

the Spences of this world we want to go after Keith Thurman if that's possible we want to fight the very best but it doesn't mean that Arrocha versus Virgo Ortiz fight cannot happen at the end of the year or possibly next year

all right so the cold main event of this card is going to feature Floyd Schofield, who when I talk to people around Golden Boy, you seem pretty excited about this guy. Look, you guys have had some success kind of unearthing these

fighters, whether it is Canello from a decade ago. Ryan Garcia, who wasn't necessarily an Olympian, but turned out to be a big time star. How do you see Schofield? He's probably all around the best fighter that I've scouted in many years,

including scouting Canelo, including scouting Ryan, and, you know, and, you know, Virgo Ortiz, I believe is probably the closest to what Schofield's potential is. You know, Virgo Ortiz is an all-around great fighter. He does it all. He does it great.

Schofield is a special specimen. He not only is a hard worker, he has a great story. You know, if you follow him, he was homeless with his father for many years, and just the way he grew up around the sport is just, it's pretty special. But what he does inside the ring is literally mind-boggling.

He's above the rest. When it comes to his training, he's looking great. He's doing the right things. And so when I put him up in Palm Springs in his last outing, against a fighter who's never been knocked out again, who's, you know, Schofield was supposed to look good, but I didn't think he was going to look great. Schofield looked amazing, and he was explosive.

He's great on his feet. So I'm calling Schofield the next big thing for years to come. I think that at 12 in 0, if he gets past Alberto Mercado from Puerto Rico, I think that we, and he does it in a spectacular fashion, because I want my fighters to win, not just to win, but win in a spectacular fashion. That's when you get known.

That's when you build up. That's when you become a name. So, you know, Floyd gets it. I think Floyd is one of those fighters who is technical, who throws a lot of punches, but his footwork is unbelievable. So I see big things for Floyd. Does he remind you of anyone from years past? I literally think he reminds me of me.

The footwork on his toes, the punches and bunches. And when he has you hurt, when he smells the, you know, he goes for the kill. You know, when he smells that blood, he goes for the kill. So I think Floyd has something special going on for himself. So I think, I think, look, I'm going out of my way here. I think that Floyd is going to be a very, very dangerous fighter for many world champions in the near future. We all know you love fighters named Floyd, right? I love Floyd.

You've had about a week now to digest the contract that was sent to Golden Boy for the Ryan Garcia Tank Davis fight. Where are we with that? Well, let me tell the world that I feel very, very confident the fight is going to happen. I strongly feel that the animosity, aside from the buildup, aside from these guys being in their prime, these guys being young, reminds me of when I fought Trinidad, we were both, like, maybe 20. 26 years old, you know, world champions and top of the world. It reminds me of Ryan and tank. So we are, we are very, very close. It's just the details, you know, the devil's in the details. And it's just a matter of crossing the T's and dotting the eyes. But I feel very confident this fight will be the biggest, biggest fight in recent years.

How concerned are you, if at all, about this up? coming trial that Tank Davis is facing in Baltimore, a trial that has already attempted to have been settled. There was an agreement. The judge decided the agreement didn't offer a severe enough punishment. How concerned are you that that could at least temporarily derail this fight? Sure. I'm not, I don't know details of the trial or, or, but we, we've been assured that everything will be okay. We've been assured that it's a green light. Ryan Garcia and Durante Davis will happen April 15th. You know, Ryan will have been off for about eight or nine months since then. I know you were very vocal about wanting to see him fight, to be active,

to take that January day coming up. Sure. How do you feel about how he's going to be coming into this fight? No, it's concerning. You know, it's very concerning because Look, being a fighter myself, you need to stay in the gym. You have to keep the tools sharp. And, you know, the fact that Tank Davis took the so-called tuna fight, I don't think it was a tuna fight. It was a very difficult fight for him. But it keeps him sharp.

It keeps him in the game. It keeps his distance. It keeps his timing in check. And Ryan Garcia being away from. from the ring for for for so long is is concerning but um look right now is training he's with joe gusin i'll be visiting him in camp and actually staying several days uh just to uh you know just to be there for some moral support and uh and you know give him give him you know my two sense as well but uh you know i strongly feel that ryan will be in great shape he will uh this is the one

fight that he's always wanted uh this is the fight we got him so now it's time to perform and I think he will be in the best shape of his life. Just don't, don't use the word blueprint, Oscar. That never works. No, no, no, no, no blueprint. I'm still, I'm still looking for the blueprint. Nobody found the blueprint. I feel like Gerardo Rivera, you know,

searching for those mysterious, uh, uh, uh, Virgil Ortiz, last thing for you. He had to have that fight paused because Danny Onus had to have an appendectomy. Any plans on thoughts on when that's going to be rescheduled? Yeah, we just, we talked to the WBA and, you know, it'll be rescheduled asap. I think Stony Ones won at about a month, three weeks or a month. So we're back on searching for venues, searching for the right place to save this fight.

I strongly feel this fight will be one of the most explosive fights in the Walterway Division. and Stanley Ones, we know, he's very powerful. He's a strong kid. And Virgil Ortiz just comes forward. He's a great fighter, great boxer. He comes forward. It's going to be a great fight, so we're looking forward to that. There was some news in the last couple of weeks about a shake-up at Golden Boy.

You had Robert Diaz leave the company at the first of the year. What does that mean? Is there a new strategy going on with you guys behind the scenes? Like, what is the direction of Golden Boy in 2023? Sure. No, just like all the other, the rest of companies that have been cutting back on staff. That's basically it. You know, it's been, it's been not slow, but, you know, I've, I've just had to shift things around.

But, yeah, we're stronger than ever. We have the best fighters. We have the best young prospects coming up with Floyd and some other kids that I've just signed. you know, Eric Gomez is back on doing what he does best, aside from being president of the company. You know, he will assist a couple of other colleagues that I've hired. So, you know, Golden Boy is positioned right now to take it to the next level. We will be very busy. We will obviously have our relationship with the zone.

We're looking forward to staging really, really good for. fights for this year. So on the 28th, this is, this is the beginning, a little tease of what's, what's to come for the zone and for a golden boy. Put a lot of pressure on young Floyd, though, right out of the gate. Say, fights like, he's like Canello, Ryan Garcia, fights like me. I mean, this kid's got the way, you feel confident he can handle that kind of expectation. I feel, I feel very confident. Look, if this kid, if this kid has the strength, you know, the, the, the courage to, to, to withstand living in the streets, literally, living in the streets with his father, coming from literally nothing.

You know, we obviously know that he's strong in the mind, in the heart. More importantly, he has the dedication, he has the desire, but he has the skill, which is incredible. I mean, Bernard Hopkins, my partner tells me that, you know, he hasn't seen something like this in a very long time since like an Aaron Pryor or a fighter like, you know, Bernard Hopkins always goes old school, right? You know, somebody like Pernard Whitaker, you know, this, Floyd is, is special. That's all I can say. How many to list for the broadcast of all the guys you've compared him to on Saturday?

Just compare him to the very best. Aaron Pryor, Aaron Pryor, you know. All right. Austin, Illinois, good to talk to you, man. We will see you at the YouTube Theater. On DeZone on Saturday night. All right, you got it. Thanks, man.

And when we come back, this week's picks brought to you by Fandul. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care where you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking.

What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know.

I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Time now for this week's picks brought to you by Fandul, and this week I am locked in on the light heavyweight title fight over the UK. Archer Better B.F. Anthony Yardt. If you listened to the first part of this podcast, you can probably tell which direction I am leaning. I think Archer Betterbeyev is almost a lock to win this fight. I think something crazy would have to happen for Anthony Yard to win this fight. Betterbeyev is at minus 1250 to win.

Odsmakers clearly agree with me. It's not a great set of odds to say the least, but I don't see this fight ending any other way, at least not a fight of this magnitude. So take Archer-Betterb to win at minus 1250. Slightly better odds if you're looking for the method of victory. Better B.bib is minus 440 to win by knockout. I think that's how this fight's going to end. All of Archer-Betterbiv's fights have ended by knockout.

It has a tendency to go to the later round. So if you want to make another pick, pick the over on the rounds, under five rounds, I believe, is at minus 100 or somewhere in that range. So that might be something worth taking a flyer on. But officially, I am going, Archer Better Beav to win, Archer Better Beav by knockout. Those are my picks brought to you by Fandul. That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Sergio Mora and Oscar Delahoya for joining the show.

As always, subscribe, rate review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts. And I'll see you next week. podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host, Keer Games.

This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get, Get your podcast.