The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Boxing with Chris Mannix - It's Spence-Crawford Fight Week

Episode Date: July 26, 2023

Joining Mannix in Las Vegas this week is Keith Idec, senior writer with BoxingScene.com. Mannix and Idec discuss Naoya Inoue's dominant win over Stephen Fulton, if there is anyone between 122 and 126 pounds that can beat him and if Inoue has solidified his place atop the pound-for-pound list. Plus early thoughts on Errol Spence-Terence Crawford, from Crawford's age to Spence's inactivity to keys to win for both fighters. Later, Nick Manning, the Director of Showtime's All-Access series, joins to talk the making of All-Access, his favorite moments, what he has seen from being embedded with Spence and more. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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part of the volume sports podcast. Never glad you could join me this week. Glad you could join me every week, but especially this week, because it is finally Errol Spence Terrence Crawford Fight Week. That's right. After years of will they or won't they get in the ring,

the two best Walter waits in the world will face off on Saturday, T-Mobile Arena, live on Showtime Paperview. Because it is such a big week, this is going to be a multiple podcast week. That's right. We're going to have at least two podcasts. We're going to have one, obviously, today. You're listening right now.

I appreciate that. And we're going to have another one on Friday. We may even do a post-fight podcast. Not entirely sure I'm ready to commit fully to the post-fight podcast. Got a few things I've got to be working on on Saturday night, but I want to do one. And if this fight's as good as I expected to be, we're going to do a post-fight podcast. Got a great show for you, though, today. Keith Ideck, senior writer, boxing scene.com. He joins me in person. We are both here in Las Vegas. Keith Ideck, friend of the podcast, he joins me in person to discuss the two biggest topics right now. One, Neoya Inouye, the now unified champion at

122 pounds after his one-sided destruction of Stephen Fulton that may have catapulted in a way to the top of the pound-for-pound list. Keith and I talk about that. We also get into all things Spence versus Crawford, how sharp these guys are, the ages, what they've gone through over the last couple of years. We dive into that fully on this show. A little bit later on, Nick Manning, the director of Showtime's All Access series. Been the director for the last couple of years. We talk about everything that went into the All Access for Spence versus Crawford. He brings back some of his best stories from some of the previous All Accesses.

So if you're a fan of the Showtime All Access series, stick around for that conversation with Nick Manning. It is terrific. But first, Keith Ideck, boxing scene.com. He joins me. Let's go. Keith Ideck. In person. Right here, across some table from me. Friend of the pod, doing it live, Keith.

How about that? I know. It's a rarity for us, obviously. But here we are in Vegas, where it's about 112 degrees. And I plan not to go outside as little as possible. It really is like two different worlds in Vegas. You go inside and it's 40, 45 kind of hooded sweatshirt weather. You go outside and you bake within.

30 seconds. It's wild. Summertime in Vegas, there's really no explaining it. You have to experience it. But we are in Vegas, the site of the Terrence Crawford, Errol Spence Fight, Super Fight, happening Saturday, Showtime, pay-per-view. It's going to be an event. We're going to talk about that. We're going to talk about the fight that already happened this week.

Neoi Inouye moves up and wait and just beats down Stephen Fulton. What a performance by Inouye in that fight. But, Keith, for a minute, just indulge me for just a moment here, because something came across my social media feed this week. People were sending me this a couple of times over the week. It was Errol Spence at a media availability being asked about a Sports Illustrated cover that this reporter apparently didn't agree with. Take a listen. Recently, Sports Illustrated put Jake Paul on the cover of their magazine instead of you guys. What do you think about that? I mean, that's their priority. That's what they want to do. Hey, I can't knock it. Man, I can remember last time I bought a Sports

Illustrated magazine, so I don't know. All right. Let me that's not how magazines work. Okay?

Just to clarify this, for the people that saw this clip, I saw it retweeted hundreds of times and people commenting on it Sports Illustrated

is dead. Gotcha. Thank you very much. The Jake Paul cover was not and is not a cover story on Jake Paul and Nate Diaz,

a fight that happens a week from now. It has nothing to do with that fight. It is, a story on the 50 most influential people in sports. And Jake Paul is one of them. Right on the cover, it says the power issue.

So it gives it away right there. There's no picture of Jake and Nate facing off. In fact, it's Jake in a pool on the cover. This story was reported in late April and early May. It was written by the end of May before Terence Crawford and Errol Spence were even announced. I know, Keith, you're a print guy. You understand this, how this works. But just for the record, I want to put this out there.

There was no, we didn't have a meeting at Sports Illustrated and decide, you know what? Jake Paul is a better fit for our cover in August than Nate, than Terrence Crawford and Errol Spence. That did not happen. We believe this fight's big. If you want to read S.I's coverage of Crawford Spence, Go on S.I.com. There's tons of it right now. Greg Bishops, write a couple times this week. I'll be writing a couple times this week.

We just have no, we can't control when the covers come out. They're chosen months in advance. So I have no problem, Keith, with Errol Spence kind of answering the question the way he did. I think whoever the reporter is is kind of goofy. I think they should know better than say, Sports Illustrated shows, Jake Paul over Crawford Spence. How dare they? That's just, sorry, I had to get that off my chest a little bit there. You understand.

You've been in the print game long enough to understand that. All right, so let's start this show talking about the rare Tuesday morning fight. over in Tokyo, Japan, we had Noia Inouye, the undisputed champion at 118 pounds, three division world champion, moving up and wait to take on Stephen Fulton, who is widely considered the top dog at 122.

This was expected to be a great fight, two great fighters, two undefeated fighters, but from the moment that first bell rang, we saw the greatness of Inouye. We saw a dynamic puncher, we saw a guy with blurring speed. We saw a guy whose power clearly carried up to 222 pounds. I thought the first seven rounds were a complete shutout in favor of Inouye.

The eighth round comes and just a picture perfect right hand down the middle puts Stephen Fulton down, then a flurry at the end forced a stoppage. I came away from that fight as impressed with Inouye as I've ever been before. He's had some quality wins. Most notably the early round knockout of Nonito Donair. which was a big win for him at that time, the biggest win of his career. This tops that.

This was an elite top dog at 122 pounds, and his first fight in that new weight class, Keith, he went out there and just dismantled Stephen Fulton. What did you think? Yeah, I don't know how you could come away from this, anything, but extremely impressed by Nio in a way, because he was brilliant this morning. You know, here in Vegas, we woke up before 5 a.m. to watch the fight.

Kind of like that, don't you? Is it a weird way I kind of like that? Is that too early? I mean, the alarm goes off. I put the TV on. I heard the anthems. I'm like, this is great. I go back to bed afterwards.

I could do without getting up at 4.45 to watch boxing. But, hey. East Coast, it would be fine. Yeah, East Coast totally fine, but I flew here last night, and I'm an old cranky man now. So I'll complain about anything pretty much. But it was a brilliant performance by Inouye who just, I mean, he couldn't have been better. I mean, he got hit with a couple of right hands, basically, in separate rounds. but that was about it. I mean, he did everything and anything he wanted to Stephen Fulton,

who was a very, very good fighter. Stephen Fulton, I wouldn't classify as a great fighter, obviously, but he's a very good fighter, an undefeated, unified champion and a higher weight class who's physically bigger than, in a way. People were, you know, there were a lot of people who were picking Fulton because the size and his skill, and at a certain point when you're moving up and moving up and moving up, you're taking on too much. Clearly not the case for Inouye. He's more than ready to dominate it 122 pounds like he has in prior weight classes. I would expect him to beat Marlon Topalus probably easier than he beat Stephen Fulton

because Stephen Fulton at least is a good enough boxer where he was able to hang in there for as long as he could. And then he got caught with a picture perfect shot. And no shame in that, man. I mean, you know, Inouay is a devastating puncher. he was on you know it was it was a great shot he got great extension on it it was perfectly placed um and and also managed to he's so he's so unusual he was able while fulton was falling down from the right hand to catch him with a left to run in and catch him with a left hook to finish him off

basically fulton to his credit got up but he was finished at that point and in a way pounced on him and uh caused the referee he did go down a second time as the fight was being stopped and the referee Hector Rufu had no choice but to stop the fight. So just a brilliant performance from Inoua. And validation for a lot of the people who've been on the Inouet bandwagon for many years. But like you said, Chris, in these last couple of years, he's gotten wins now where it's very hard to argue against him being the best pound-for-pound fighter in boxing. Whereas before, maybe you could say, well, you know, some of the guys that he beat in the lower-weight classes weren't quite as good as the guys he's beaten. I understand people are going to say, oh, well, Donair was 39 years old already when he knocked him out,

but he obliterated Nonito Donair, which had not been done to him. And their first fight was, I don't know about close, but it was reasonably competitive, and it was a good action fight, and some people voted at their fight of the year for 2019. So that was a great win for him. And, you know, Doner is much more accomplished than Stephen Fulton overall in his career, but he was 39 years old when they fought the second time, whereas Stephen Fulton has just turned 29 last week as in the physical primary. Prime and Chris have been so good.

I mean, you know, he doesn't have Hall of Fame caliber wins on his resume, but good ones. But good ones. And the Brandon Fedorow wins. Right. And dominated Daniel Romon in his last fight. You know, the inactivity, I know people are saying,

oh, well, he didn't fight in 13 months. Look, if he had fought four months ago, which I know wasn't possible because the fight got postponed, I'm just using that as in it. Four months ago, six months ago, eight months ago, the result is probably the same. So just, I give Fulton credit for going over there.

He was paid very well, of course. But as the champion, you know, he could have stood his ground and said, oh, well, he's got to come here and where it makes a lot less business sense for the fight to have happened. He willingly went over there. He demanded the fight because much like Earl Spence was hearing in his ear on the PBC side, well, we think he should fight Keith Thurman because this Crawford fight is taking too long to make. And Spence put his foot down and said, no, I'm fighting Terrence Crawford or I'm not fighting. Stephen Fulton did not... He can still fight Brandon Figueroa now,

and people will watch it because it was a very entertaining fight the first time. But he put his foot down and said, I want this fight. I'll go to his backyard and fight him. Again, paid very well, more than twice than what he would have made to fight Brandon Figueroa. But a lot of credit to Stephen Fulton. He handled it with class, stuck around for a pretty long time in the ring afterward.

I'm not really sure what that was all about. I think he was... He felt obligated for some reason to stay there, but he stayed... Different dynamic over there. It is, but I don't know why he... He was, like, it's not like in a way came. The one thing I was a little surprised about, Chris, and I don't know if I missed it, because again, it was 5.30 in the morning and I was a little blurry and all. But I didn't really see them embrace.

Maybe they did, but I didn't see it. I know Inouye went over to his corner, but I think Fulton's back was turned at that point. I'm sure they both have a lot of respect for each other, but I didn't see what you ordinarily see and fights like this. Yeah, I didn't see that either, now that I think of it. Maybe it did happen off camera and we missed it, but I didn't see that on camera. When you're watching that fight early in the morning, at what point do you know that there are levels to this, and then it was on a different one?

Like, at what point are you like, because I picked in a way to win by decision. And I think it was the second round when Fulton started bleeding from the nose. I'm like, man, I'm not worried. I don't think Fulton's going to win. I just don't know if he's going to survive at this point. I mean, he was catching a lot of those shots,

but even when you're catching shots like that, they have an impact. Like, you're just blunting it, but they're having an impact on you. What point you're watching that fight, are you thinking, okay, in a way something special? Yeah, I'd say the third round or so is when I started to feel like Fulton was not going to be able to make the adjustments that he would have needed to make. Because, you know, it's a difference, Chris, between, yeah, I know I can take his power.

You know, I take, you know, power from bigger guys in the gym all the time. And then when you're in there with a small gloves on and the guy's power is something more than you thought it was, suddenly your strategy has to be adjusted. And he did come, like you, you know, we had spoken about this a little before. or, you know, he got on his front foot a little bit and did try, and he did land a couple of very clean right hands, which in a way took very well. But Fulton never gave, you know, it was never to the point because it only got to the eighth round. Maybe this would have happened if it got later into the fight 11th round or something like that. I didn't sense that he was that he had given up.

It's just he couldn't do anything with him. It's like no matter what he tried, he paid the price for it for the most part. And even when he landed clean punches, as I said, which were fuel. and far between. They didn't have much impact on Inouye. There was really just nothing he can do. And I think that really surprised a lot of people who thought Fulton's boxing ability would lead him, would be his path to winning a decision in Japan, which I don't know if that was realistic either. No, probably not. But, you know, Inouye made it academic. He was so good and so dominant from start to finish. He was already in, in a way, that is, the top five in most people's pound for pound list.

I think he rockets the number one right now as we speak Wednesday, July 25th. Before we get into what next weekend could mean, does in a way, based on what we know today, move to number one on your list? For today, for sure. I mean, because the thing is, Chris, you have to see how the Crawford Spence fight plays out. I guess we'll just jump right to the next part of that question. So you believe that what happens in Crawford Spence could sway because there are people that believe in a ways number one no matter what, no matter what happens on Saturday, internet weighs number one pound for pound. You believe, though, that the outcome of Crawford Spence will have, will have an impact on that top spot.

Yeah, I think you have to leave room for that just because let's hypothetically say, Chris, that Terence, I don't expect this to happen, but let's say Terence Crawford goes in there, dominates Earl Spence and stops them in the four. Yeah, he stops him in the fourth or fifth round, or vice versa. Errol Spence-Dominates Terrence Crawford, stops him in the fourth or fifth round. That's pretty hard to ignore, based on the fact that he be the fully unified welterweight champion, one of the glamour divisions in boxing, hasn't been one in the four-belt era, beat another undefeated champion. Let's just say it's Spence that does that. Crawford's a three-weight world champion who has knocked out every welterweight opponent,

and sure you can pick apart his resume like you can pick apart any fighter's resume. Including in a way, for that matter. Of course, absolutely. they're all subject to that. So, but if that were to, I don't expect that to happen. I expect their fight to be a dog fight and to be very competitive. But let's just say that happened. I don't know how you come away from that and say, oh, well, yeah, I mean, because you know what people will say.

Let's just say it's Spence that wins that way. They're going to say, oh, Terrence Crawford's going to be 36 in a couple months. You know, he's past his prime, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And if it happens the other way, they're going to say, oh, this guy, you know, he was in a car accident. and he wasn't in a real dog fight after that happened. People are going to create narratives to serve their own purposes, no matter what happens. All I'm saying is you would have to leave room for whatever happens Saturday night. Now, if the fight goes to the cards, and it's a narrow, let's just say Crawford wins 1.15, 113,

but it's pretty much agreed upon that he deserved to win the fight. Well, then you could say, well, look, look what in a way did the Stephen Fulton. But what I would say, in my opinion, Stephen Fulton is not on the level of, while a very good fighter, is not on the level of Errol Spencer, Terrence Crawford. Right. So you could use that argument as well. And I'm not trying to pick on it, you know, in a way what he did this morning was incredible. And I have no qualms about him being number one on someone's list. It's all subjective anyway, Chris.

You know, these pound for pound lists, I mean, people waste so much time getting into. It sparks Twitter debate. Right. And we have one on our website and sparks all kinds of conversation and everything. But I'm... Who competes with this guy? That's the question I have with Inouye coming out of this fight. Topalas, do respect to him.

John Gibbons, hope he cut a good deal. I hope you all get paid for that fight. That's not going to end well for Marlon Topalas. By the end of this year, more likely than not, in a way, is going to be undisputed at 122. You talked to Bob Aram this week, who suggested for Bacy Ramirez could be, the next threat to Inouye. You buy that? I mean, you see, you know, Ramirez's fighting on the undercard,

just fought in the undercard of Inouye. You've seen Ramirez fight, very good, obviously. Is he a threat? Who's the guy out there between 122 and even 130 that you're like, that's who Inouye can't beat? That's a bridge too far. Well, I certainly wouldn't say that Robisi Ramirez is a guy that Inouye can't beat, but he's a formidable little featherweight opponent, obviously.

I mean, and he's represented by top rank in a way, is co-promoted by top rank. And Bob pretty much laid it out to me the other day that, you know, he's going to fight Topala. This was before he won, but assuming he beats Fulton, he's going to fight Topolis next. Apollos is going to be at the fight. We saw that all unfold in real time this morning. And I think he will beat Topalus convincingly. And then the Rubisi Ramirez fight is there to be made because there's nothing left for him at 122 pounds. He will fully, he will then be a two-time.

a two-division undisputed champion. Terrence Crawford could be the first fighter to get to that on Saturday in the forebelt era, the first two-division undisputed male champion. So that would be, you know, that would be pretty incredible for him to do that. And his two fights at 122 pounds to become the fully unified champion, and then he would look for greater challenges. And the next natural thing, of course, is to move up to 126 pounds. Top rank has control of both guys.

It's an easy fight to make where B.C. Ramirez fought on his under. card today. I've been led to believe that B.C. Ramirez could fight on another one of his undercards building toward that fight. So it all makes perfect business sense. And Ramirez is a two-time Olympic gold medalist. I mean, he's pretty goddamn good. After losing his pro debut, he's really turned into a

terrific fighter. So it makes sense for that to happen. Are we ever going to see Inouye stateside? I mean, he makes so much money over there. And it's obviously enough money to get a fighter like Stephen Volton to, you know, go to PBC and say, I want to take this fight.

Is it ever going to be worth as wild to come to the U.S.? I think if he fights three times in a calendar year, we could see him fight in the U.S., you know, have two fights, two, you know, fights that'll do commercially very, very well in Japan, and then have a fight in Vegas because there are a lot of Japanese people who come to Vegas and a lot of high rollers. I mean, that's always been the case. And they feel, which is why they tried to bring him here initially when the fight got postponed, whatever happened, he was supposed to fight. I think there was a pandemic or something.

I think he was supposed to fight here. I don't remember exactly how it fell apart, but he was supposed to fight at Mandalay Bay. And the MGM people were excited about that because a lot of Japanese fans and high rollers were going to come in for the fight and everything. So I think if he fights three times in a calendar year or close to it, I think that's possible.

But he makes so much money in Japan, and he's an emerging huge star there now. The building was packed. I don't really understand how they operate in that building. They're very subdued compared to U.S. crowds. It's strange. It's very strange. but they're obviously boxing fans,

the Inouye fans over there, paying customers to watch him fight. So it's remarkable the crowds he draws. But I mean, you know, you saw obviously on Twitter, everybody's, you know, throwing out names, Javante Davis for Italy.

That's a little crazy. But is like what's like the, you know, is there a, for lack of a better way to put it, you know, the old Larry Merchant, Pachiao should fight Delahoya, like the crazy one out there.

You think there's a fight out there that, you know, that a dare to be great type of opportunity, for him that that would make any kind of sense that that's even remotely on the table? Well, Gervante Davis, as you just mentioned, that would be pretty crazy. I mean, because look, at a certain... Javante's a fan of him. I've seen some video of Javante talking about, like, he knows he's legit.

Yeah. No, but at a certain point, you know, a guy who started as low in weight as he did, at a certain point, you're just going to move up one weight class too many. You know, your power is not going to kick. What is he going to fight at Welterweight? I mean, what are we talking about? And anyway, does get hit from time to time. He does, yeah.

You know, Jervantes is going to counterpunchers. I mean, and I don't even want to go down this rabbit hole of him fighting Jervante because this is ridiculous. But it would be a huge fight, obviously, but he's three-way classes away from where, you know, it's just, it's not even. It's just unfortunate that 126 is not really a glamour division right now. 130's not really a glamour division right now. There are certainly titles that can be won, you know, memo to Eddie Hearn, send Lee Wood over to Japan to fight, to fight it away for a way. a big payday. But I'm just wondering who that guy is that that that gets to him.

Like where does this train stop? Where does it get off within a way? I mean, is Ramirez tough fight? I think in a way can win that fight. Luis Lopez is out there with a title. Lee Woods out there, set out there with title. You go up to 1.30. You're talking about the Joe Cordinas and the Oshackie Fosters and these guys like,

I don't know. I don't know where it stops for him. Yeah. It would be really interesting if he fully unifies at 122 and then goes up to now would take much more time because the titles are fractured at 126. But imagine if he became a three-weight undisputed champion. I mean, he's a Hall of Famer already, but that would be, oh, my God. And if he was able to do that.

It's doable, though. Like, I look at it. I mean, you're right, 126. That's why if you're top rank, you want to try to get Ramirez and what Lopez has the title, right? So you want to get them. Like, that's a makeable fight for you. You want to get them together. And at least you can get two titles on the line.

No fight against any way down. Well, Luis Lopez, remember, is defending his title against Joette Gonzalez, who was getting his 47th title shot somehow. He keeps getting on. A nice guy. How many title shots are you going to get? I thought the Shakurr fighter should have been the last one. That's just me.

But yeah, so it'll be harder to become fully unified at 126. But I think that's, you know, in Japan it doesn't matter who he fights. The arena's going to be packed and he's a mainstream star over there. He's making money hand over fist. So I guess it doesn't matter to some degree who he fights. but yeah but but who is the who's the guy who's his rival i get what you're saying there's no natural guy that pops to mind that you say oh this is the guy he has to fight and this is going to be a bridge too far if he tries to fight so and so that's not you know

that doesn't really exist but you know the ramirez fight it's interesting you know a southball who can box and who's you know really fleet on his feet and everything i mean he's he's a talented guy and once he started training the way professional prize fighters are supposed to train, you notice the dramatic difference in the way he is performed. So, you know, Shakur is very complimentary of Robesio Ramirez now and has seen him in the gym. You know, obviously, you know, he were down there in Brazil when it all unfolded there. I don't think they fight at this point because they're so far apart and wait. But Shakur, who will not be shy to tell someone that they suck and they're not on his level, as we've seen. Hey, George Campos.

But, you know, and I give him credit for, you know, he's not, he's not blowing smoke up someone's ass. He just says, hey, man, look, you know, like, I respect you. I, congratulations. But, I mean, he literally told George Cambosis to his face, I'll beat the shit out of you. I mean, that's literally what he said. And he says it, like, incredulously. Yeah. He's like, why are you talking to me right now?

Exactly. I will end you. So for a guy like Shakur, who's obviously full of confidence and rightfully so, for him to be very respectful of Obesier and Ramirez and acknowledge the improvements that he's made as a pro I think speaks to how good Robesie Ramirez is. Is he good enough to beat in a way? Well, I mean, no one seems to fall into that category so far.

So I'm not sure about that. But it's an interesting fight. You know what I love about anyway is that he transcends the boxing politics because they can offer so much money that whoever a title holder is that has a PBC side belt, whether it's Brandon Figueroa or Gary Russell, Ray Vargas, whoever has one of those belts, they'll probably go over to Japan to fight him. because there'd be so much money available to them to do that.

So he's going to get those opportunities. I'm excited to see more of them at 122 and beyond. Just because I mentioned the Cambosis fight, were you as outraged as many were by the scorecards in that fight? Cambosis defeats Maxie Hughes. It was a majority decision. One of the judges, David Sutherland, had it a draw. Two of the judges had it in favor of Cambosis,

one wide, 117, 111. That was a fight that I thought was close. I edge to Hughes watching on TV about 115, 113, but a lot of outrage afterwards, about two of those scorecards in this fight. Where did you fall on that? Yeah, 117, 111 Joseph Mason's scorecard is just preposterous, disgusting pick an adjective, right? I mean, Tim Bradley was right on the head. Sometimes I think Tim goes a little too far in his outrage sometimes, but I thought he was completely on the money in this case. And his point was well taken in that, you know, Maxie Hughes is a guy who has five,

losses on his record. He's not a big puncher. He's even in the boxing crazed UK. He's not a big star. He wins seven fights in a row, pulls off a couple of minor upsets, is in position. He has the IBO title, which most people don't recognize, whatever. I mean, but he had a title and George Cambosus fought for it and wanted it. It's an IBF elimination match. He pursues the fight. He comes to the middle of nowhere in the U.S. to fight George Cambosus. It's so dead there. It's not so dead there. It's Shawnee, Oklahoma, for God's sake. comes over, you know, very, seem, very likable guy. He puts on a cowboy hat and all this stuff.

It seems like a very down-to-earth, humble, likable guy. As Cambosis, I like Cambosis. It seems like a decent dude, too. But for Maxie Hughes to come there and fight the way that he fought. Now, I was covering the fight off of TV from my house. So you get a little different feel for it when you're covering on TV than when you're at ringside that you get a different angle and all that kind of stuff. But in my head, I wasn't really scoring it round by round by round because I'm writing on deadline, you know, round by blow by blow and all that.

But I kind of felt like Maxie Hughes won at a minimum, at a minimum seven, but probably eight. Like I thought he was a decisive winner. So when I first heard, the first score that was announced was 117, 111, I said, oh, well, they got it, you know, they got it right. I mean, here they're given the guy his, you know, and you're always concerned about those things because even though Cambosis is from Sydney, Australia, and the fight was in Shawnee, Oklahoma. He was the house fighter because he just signed a co-promotional contract with top rank, a multi-three-fight deal at least. So he's the guy that they're looking to make at least an opponent for all the lightweights that they have or to get in position to win a lightweight title. So you're always worried about that. And I just, you feel terrible for a guy like Maxie Hughes because he has no recourse at this point when you lose a fight like that that you should have won.

You can file a protest. Nothing is going to come to that. And George Cambosis, and understandably so, is not going to. going to give him a rematch because it makes he's all it it would be foolish for him to do that he's in position to fight for the title but assuming Haiti gives up the titles I mean he's in position to fight for one of the uh belts now um but yeah so the other thing Chris is in a typical boxing you know only in boxing type of thing David Sutherland who in my opinion has proven mostly to be a good judge he's kind of come on the scene the last few years has been used on a lot of fights in

Las Vegas particularly by top rank was more regional guy for a long time was And now is kind of jumped in. He's going to do this fight this weekend. Well, that's my point, though. Like, he just scored Cambosis Hughes a draw, which I thought was at least one or two rounds off. And now he has been chosen or signed as one of the judges for the most historically significant fight of the year and maybe for several years. I mean, right? I mean, it's just, you know, because what if we get to Saturday night and, Terrence Crawford, let's just say, should win eight rounds, and David Sutherland has Errol Spence winning seven rounds, or vice versa.

Errol Spence should win the fight, and he has to... It just baffles me that when they're assigning judges to these high-profile fights, now, at least they didn't put Dave Moretti in the pool based on what's happened with Dave Moretti over the last few months. So they had some common sense in that respect. And I'm not saying David Sutherland should be punished for the rest of his career because he submitted one scorecard that I mean who the hell am I because I disagree with it I actually thought the 1114 114 was defensible because I only had it 1513 Hughes doing it off TV and I always say like whenever you have it 1513 if it goes one point close rounds one round can go yeah right it's a couple it's not like either one of those guys was landed haymaine and that's the thing maxi Hughes should have been more active yeah in the fight for sure I mean he could have solidified the victim well maybe not Joseph Mason still probably was more Joach campbo's the winner I mean All in on George's...

So I don't mean to pick on David Sutherland. I'm sure he's perfectly nice and all that. My point is, if the previous Saturday he's involved in what is, without question, a suspect decision, you can't have him judging. That's not the time for him to... You want to assign him to the Spence Crawford rematch in January or whatever. Fine. But the next Saturday, it's just open...

And I'm not saying David Sutherland won't do a great job on Saturday. He might very well. He's proven to be a pretty good judge. But the optics of it are awful. And that's the last thing we need to come away from on Saturday night is a controversial decision. You need these guys to get it right. 100% because there's a decent chance is a really close fight. And it's as important a fight to score as any in recent memory.

You've got to have the best. I'm glad Steve Weissfeld's doing. I think he's one of the best. Who's the third one? Tim Cheatham is the other. Another good one. So I think they've got a decent chord there. but we'll see. It's an important fight for them to get right. Just lastly on Cambosis,

like I'm not even sure, like let's say hypothetically, Haney drops those belts. Like, does Cambos, was it Gustavo Limon? Is that who he's, like, I'm not sure he beats him. Like, I don't know. Like, Cambosus is to me. I've never seen, uh, I think it's Lemosis. Lemos, I don't believe it. Whatever his name is, I've never seen him fight. I'm not sure Cambos can beat him though. Like Cambos is like, I heard from some people around Cambos is like, you know, Haney took a lot out of them. I don't really know, believe that.

Like, I mean, they were, you. He went 24 rounds with Devin Haney, but it's not like going 24 rounds with Manny Paci out. Like, you know, you got out boxed in two fights with Devin Haney. I think Cambosius kind of is what he is. Like, he had a great night against Teufima Lopez, but you raise up levels. And I haven't said anything for George Campos that makes me believe, you know, maybe he wins that IBF title, but, you know, Shikor Stevenson has nothing to worry about. I'm like that. Well, I just hope.

He beats down Campos. Chris, I hope they don't get to the point where they have to make that fight. I hope because everyone seems to think in Shkourke. Chakour certainly hopes that this is the case that he fights Loma Chankh. Haney gives up the titles. And then him and Lomachenko is the number one contender in the WBC's rankings, and Chikor is number two. So they're perfectly positioned to fight for the vacant title. Okay, Lomachenko officially lost to Haney. There are plenty of people who will tell you that he deserved to win that fight.

So if they can make Shakur Stevenson and Vizili Lomachenko in, let's just say, November, that's a pretty good goddamn fight. Great fight. You know, you would want to see Shakur fight his contemporaries, Devin Haney, but he's going to move up. Giovante Davis isn't, there's not going to be an easy fight to make for obvious business reasons. So in the interim, him fighting Lomachenko is a good, I don't want to say consolation prize because it's a pretty good fight. But it's a fight we'll want to see. Whereas if he fought Cambosis, it's like... If Cambos gets his hand on that title, though, he's going to be coming for him sooner rather than later, you know.

Yeah. Yeah, and that's not going to go well for George. That's not going to go well for George at all. The fight this weekend, the fight that we're here for Spence against Crawford, percentage-wise, do you see this as a 50-50 fight? Do you see it as 55-45 in favor of one guy at the other? Like, how do you view the Spence Crawford match-up? It's 50-50.

It's the proverbial 50-50 fight, right? I mean, I could see either guy winning. I favor Crawford. Because I think he has much more in his arsenal, and he's more diverse than Errol Spence, and I think he'll make adjustments better than Errol in the fight. Would you have favored Crawford three years ago? Pre-accident for Errol Spence?

I would have. You would have? Even then? Yeah. Okay. See, for me, I think Crawford, I think Crawford's a lot, even though he's 36, I think he's a lot better at Welterweight now than he was in 2019,

when he was kind of just coming into the division, still filling out. I look at Crawford at some of these press events, and he's a little shorter than Spence, but he's rock solid at 147. He looks like the waterway. People around him have told me, like, you know, he used to walk around like 160.

That was like 168, 170. Like, you know, so he's building, he's growing into that body even still. And Spence, and we can get into this a little bit, but like, man, the last, since the accident, he's had two fights, which is a problem, I think, in and of itself. And he hasn't been,

the guy, and maybe that's a result of competition, what his opponents decided to do, but he hasn't been the guy that we saw before then, the guy that fought Sean Porter, the guy that fought, you know, Kelbrook, the guy that just was knocking guys out left and right after turning pro. I just, I think he's a little bit different since then. You know, the Danny Garcia fight is, it's really hard to judge him on that because it was his first fight back from the accident. I think it was 13 months after the accident happened. And I didn't get the sense that Danny Garcia really came to engage that night. You know, I think I'm not saying he came to collect at the check because Danny Garcia is better than that.

But I thought he was very cautious against Spence for the most part. So it's kind of hard to get a read on Spence from that fight. You know, obviously he stopped your Dennis Ugas, who has improved immeasurably since losing back-to-back fights, you know, eight years ago, nine years ago or whatever. But he had some lapses and games. concentration, which he better not have on Saturday night, or he's going to have a real problem. But I think, you know, of course, when you know you're in there with a dynamic fighter like Crawford, who's capable of doing what he can do, you know, there's a different level of focus.

And whereas if you go into the fight with Ugas and you feel like, well, this guy's not really going to be able to do anything with me for the most part, you approach it a little differently. And I sometimes fighters don't admit that, but that has to be the case, right? So I think they'll both be laser focused on Saturday night. I'm expecting to see a dog fight, one that I think Crawford will begin to take control of later in the fight. And that's why I favor him to win. Would I be stunned of Harold Spence? Well, no.

That's why I said it's a 50. And you hear fighters tell us that almost every fighter we ask about every fight, unless it's some whitewash that we wouldn't ask them about. They almost always say that it's a 50-50 fight. You know, but in this case, that's really true. And that's why the odds are what they are. And this is really one of those fights, Chris. And I was joking around with you about this earlier. You know, when you've been covering the sport for so long like we have, I mean, it's not all that often where you're really, you're going through the grind of covering the sport and writing all these stories and traveling around and all that kind of stuff.

It's rare that you really get excited about a fight. And I think you feel the same way. I'm excited about this fight. I can't wait to see it on Saturday night. Absolutely. I mean, you have to go back to, I mean, Fury Wilder got me up for it, you know, especially the second and third fights. I was into a second fight, maybe more so than the third.

Although the third fight turned out to be terrific as well. Before then, you have to go back to like Manny Pacquiao, Floyd Mayweather. And I bring that those names up because there is a little part of me, Keith, that a little wary of, you know, come, you know, what, 10 o'clock local time Saturday night, are we wondering what could have been with this fight? Are we wondering what this fight would have looked like three years ago when Crawford was younger, three years ago before Spence got into his accents had all the health issues, including an eye injury, which is, you know, we don't talk about that much,

but that was a significant issue for him, cost him the Manny Pachiafite. Is there any part of you that goes into this fight feeling like, oh man, I hope I'm not disappointed? I hope I don't walk out of here, like, wondering, wondering what could have been? Well, you hope not, obviously, but look, who can predict when a guy is going to drive intoxicated one night and almost lose his life? I mean, that's, you know, thank God that he came out of it the way that he did. I mean, first of all, let's just, it's a miracle that Errol Spence has come back and been the fighter that win, lose, or draw on Saturday night. It's nothing short of a, if you believe in miracles, this was one for sure, that he's even in this position. And shout out to Errol Spence for whenever he's never in low-level fights.

Like he's always, I heard Bo Mack, Brian McIntyre, the train over Terrence Crawford, talking about the media created Errol Spence. Like, no, Errol Spence created Errol Spence. Like, Errol Spence went out there and fought the very best. Now, he had the advantage of fighting for PPC, which had control of most of the titles over the last few years. But these were no slouches that Errol was beating up on. These were legitimate title holder. Sean Porter, legitimate title holder.

Ugas beat Pacquiao in his previous fight. He fought the very best. Beyond Crawford, he cleaned out that division. I mean, Keith Thurman's, I guess, still out there. But, you know, he beat all the guys on that side of the street. Yeah, Thurman's the only guy that he didn't fight on that proverbial side of the street, as you said, Chris. And that fight was about to happen. If they couldn't come together on this, that is who we would have fought next.

I'm convinced Keith Thurman's never going to fight again. I'm just going to keep talking about fighting and never actually fight. I mean, Keith, what has Keith Thurman fought? Since he, I believe since he fought Danny Garcia, which was March 2017. On CBS. On CBS when they did a massive number. Yeah. Never went back to CBS after that.

I don't quite understand that. But I believe he's fought three times since then. That's six plus years ago. And he's had some injury issues. I get that. But I feel like I always felt the hunger just disappeared from Keith Thurman. Like that guy that wanted all the smoke early on that fought and beat the best guys, Sean Porter, Danny Garcia. at some point the guy just disappeared

and you know he's always on showtime talking about Keith Thurman's always third person Keith Thurman's not a gatekeeper Keith Thurman's only going to come back for the big fight All right well 2003 started to slip away from Keith Thurman I don't know if he's ever going to have a fight But that's the inner there

What concerns me about Spence too is you know Crawford This is Crawford's life boxing Like he eats drinks and sleeps it You know Spence He works hard, plays hard We've seen that from him a lot over the years. You know, even though chronologically, Terrence Crawford is older,

I feel like Crawford might be the fresher fighter in this fight. I mean, he's also sharper because he's coming off a more recent fight, he's went over David Amnesian late last year, whereas Spence has not fought since the Ugas fight in April of 2022. I think that's going to be a factor in this fight as well. What do you think? You know, I asked Spence about that a few weeks ago. We did a Zoom interview, and he said he's not at all concerned.

concerned about the layoff. Now, he's performed well off of long layoffs in the past. He always has won fights convincingly coming off these really long layoffs. The difference, of course, he's never fought Terrence Crawford coming off this kind of layoff. There's a difference, I think, between fighting Danny Garcia and fighting your Dennis Ugas and fighting Terence Crawford when you haven't been in the... Now, he trains like an animal. So I'm sure he's going to be razor-sharp on Saturday night, and he's had... He's been in the gym for four or five, you know, just because the negotiations took so long and I thought the fight might happen sooner, et cetera. I'm sure he's going to be in fantastic condition and razor sharp, like I said.

But there's only so many times you can do that, you know, to come off these long layoffs and, and can, excuse me, continue to win, particularly when you're in there with another elite level fighter who, like you said, eats, sleeps, boxing, and has not, you know, to the best of my knowledge, I'm obviously not in Terrence Crawford's inner circle by any stretch. But he leads a pretty clean life. I mean, he takes care of his body the way that a top-level athlete is supposed to. He's never had any physical damage done to him like, unfortunately, Spence had in the car accident. They always say when you have a damaged retina and it's repaired, that it's better. I don't know eye surgeon. What the hell do I know? But what I'm saying is maybe all these things start to catch up with you after a while.

I don't know. I mean, I hope that's not the case on Saturday night because I really just want this to be the best of both guys, which kind of leads back to your original question. Is that where we're at? Who knows, right? But I don't, I have not seen any slippage in Terrence Crawford, who's the older fighter who'd be 36 in September. I've not seen any semblance of slippage in him to make me believe that he's not capable of going in there and winning this fight. I'm of the belief that if this fights ends in knockout, it's going to be Crawford that finishes it. I believe this fight goes to a decision, I think Spence is the one that wins it. What do you think of that? Yeah, I could, yeah, I mean,

it's got to be close no matter what. But Spence is much bigger than Crawford too, you know, like physically bigger. I understand, I understand, I understand your point. I think Crawford is. I think Crawford's going to try to make, and both those guys will engage, no doubt about it. At some point, this is going to be a great fight. But I think Spence, with his physical tools, like I watch him fight against Mikey Garcia. I watch him fight against Danny Garcia, you know, Ugas was knocked out, large a consens just kept popping away at that eye and and and beat that eye up i think spence that that's how he's going to try to find a way to win to use his size and length to to try to outbox crawford a little bit more than crawford's going to try to out box spence that that's probably true

chris and um again he he's bigger you know and he's a strong kid obviously but i just think that they're almost and when i say mirror images i don't mean in the way that they fight but they're mirror images of each other in the sense that they've got so much pride and There's so much dog, like just dog and both of them, that I think that is going to come out. And eventually, you know, maybe there'll be some, you know, Crawford always starts slow. They're going to be very respectful of each other, I'm sure. Eventually this will develop into a dog fight, I think. I don't think we'll come away from this fight disappointed, which oftentimes happens with fighters at the top level because they're so good.

And they respect each other. And they're not taking the risks in those fights that you might ordinarily take. I mean, how many times have we come away from the best, fighting the best? And we're like, yeah, that fight really, you know, we wanted to see this for how many of our years. And it just didn't live up to expectations. I get the feeling that this is going to be one of those where not only it takes on the historical significance that it does, but also plays out in the ring in a very entertaining way. And we come away from it saying, let's just hope the loser, however he loses, exercises this rematch clause. I was just saying, if it's entertaining, do you think we do it again?

Absolutely. Well, they have... But you think they would? They would... Oh, 1,000 percent. Yeah, no. And I've asked both... Maybe not this weight, though.

I'm not so sure they'd do it at 47. Maybe. Maybe. Yeah, but, well, because, well, the loser would... I think it would be at the loser's option because they would want to become the fully unified welterweight champion, which they never... Although, who knows what could happen with the belts at that point, you know, if they... Well, you know, I mean, you tell Maricio, you're going to get 3% of Crawford Spence.

You know, I'm sure all of them will just take this... A lot of interest. belts out there right now. Yeah. The WBA's secondary title, Bozennis, he's got a belt. Pretty soon. Mandatories for interim champions.

Pretty soon Alexis is going to have himself an interim title. A lot of belts and a lot of sanctioning fees being collected out there. But I do think, Chris, I do think the loser, because I've asked both guys this, you know, do you think the other guy, let's just say you win convincingly, maybe even by stoppage, do you think, you know, Spence, do you think Crawford would take it if you stop them? Crawford, do you think Spence would take it if you stop them? And they both have said that they think because, the other fighter has so much pride that they'll want their get back, so to speak,

and that they would exercise the rematch calls, which I believe they have 30 days from Saturday night to do. And let's just hope, Chris, look, we can't have nice things in boxing. We're well aware of that. You know, let's just treasure this one for what it is. You know what I mean? It's a great fight. It means so much historically in a glamour division. and it finally happened for 47 minutes or whatever it is on Saturday night. Let's just hope that it plays out the way that we're expecting it to play out. And we come away from this feeling really good about a super fight because that doesn't always happen.

I agree. I agree. Now, I want to spend 10 minutes talking about Giovanni Cabrera and how well managed he's been during his career. But I have in my notes here that you want nothing to do with that topic. you think Cabrera's manager is a, quote, bumbling moron? Is that accurate, Keith Ideck? That is wholly inaccurate, my friend.

What's the name of Cabrera's manager again? I'm not touching this. I believe she used to work at Maine Avese. Josephine? First of all, Josephine. First of all, she knows better than this, that I would disparage her in this way,

so I'll let her kick your ass instead of mine, you know? Keith Ideck, check him out on boxing scene.com all week long here from Vegas. Fight Nightfall. on boxing at iDEC boxing. Keith, always appreciate it, man. Yeah, same here, Chris. Good to see you. And when we come back, my conversation with Nick Manning. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'll say it.

Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of Tontons and Wampas on the Ice Planet Hot. or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Bo Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. Nick Manning is the director of the Showtime All Access series,

the Emmy Award winning All Access series, did some of the All Access like Canello v. Plant, Davis versus Romero, Davis versus Garcia, and has been working this week on the All Access for Errol Spence against Terrence Crawford working for a few weeks now on Aero Spence versus Terrence Crawford. What kind of investment is a project like this? Is it over a course of months? You know, we hear the phrase like is embedded with Aero Spence, is embedded with Terrence Crawford. What does that mean?

All access is, I mean, really from the jump when the fight gets announced is when we kind of have the green light to go. So, yeah, I mean, it's like a two-month process. And typically when we have, we do like seven, days per episode, which did not used to be the case. You know, for the Floyd Mayweather days, which was before my time, they would come out here to Vegas for like months. And then they would just, but, you know, you're just on call for when he wants to do something. So times have changed when it comes to that. We're a little more responsible in that way. But yeah, I mean, I was pretty

much all of June. I was in Dallas with Errol Spence and, you know, the same on the other side, different crew for Terrence Crawford and Omaha and then Colorado Springs. So, You know, it's probably a two-month process overall with about a month in camp. These behind-the-scenes shows, I think, offer great insight into, you know, who these fighters are, what makes them tick. You know, stuff you don't see at traditional press conferences, beginning with, you know, what HBO would do a 24-7, now what All-Axis has done for the last 10 years. What's the goal for you when you begin, you know, a project around a fight? I mean, we're always just looking for to get the most authentic

version of the fighter across as possible because what All Access does is a real fly-on-the-wall approach where if, you know, if it feels like you're seeing something that you're truly not supposed to be there for, not in a bad way, but just that it's truly something that you wouldn't normally see. So, you know, we always try to find something different. There's obviously the, we do the bare.

essentials. We get the, you know, the nutritionist in there. We have our gym sessions and all that, but, you know, it's, it's about finding a balance between something that is cool and different that can engage people, but also is something that the boxer is comfortable with where their personality will come out. And you just don't know what that is. I mean, the best example I can find is, you know, with Dervante, we did two different scenes that made the same episode was I went through this whole process of getting up in a helicopter to fly over Vegas. to go around T-Mobile and it was going to be, you know, he's, it's really like, you know, he's thinking about how big this is and all that.

And it was cool. But what stood out was the opening scene was, you know, he went to a 7-Eleven and I gave him my corporate card. And I just told him to go nuts. And him and his friends just bought like $80 worth of candy. And they were just like literally kids in a candy shop. That's what they bought with the corporate card, $80 with a candy? Yes.

And a banana. God. Do so much better with the corporate cards. Well, what happened was is we filmed with the nutritionist, and then he mentioned to us as a joke that, well, Tank's favorite restaurant is 7-Eleven. And so we're like, okay, we started thinking about it, and that's how a lot of the ideas come.

And it's super easy for him. It's like, hey, on the way home, can you just stop at 7-Eleven? We're going to do this. And we didn't know where we were going. I just found one. I walked in. I saw the lady, and I was just like, hey, something's about to happen. I hope you're cool with this.

And he went in, But, like, that showed his personality. And if you look at the comments and everything, like, people couldn't stop talking about, like, the 7-Eleven part. And, I mean, it hurts a little bit after everything you do with something like a helicopter. But, you know, at the very end of the day, like, if you can capture these guys' personalities, I think you've done the best job because it's shown that you've made them comfortable enough to be themselves and be comfortable on the platform they're on.

The challenge with you and I've experienced this as reporters, getting guys to be authentic, like, you know, getting guys to open up and be their authentic selves. How challenging is that for you with the cameras rolling all the time with these guys? It's very challenging. It all comes down to what kind of approach you have as a crew and the type of people you have with you. So I have the same people with me all the time. Justin, Kyle, and Mark are my main guys. And so we're very laid back. You kind of have to be comfortable with the idea that you may not get something at the, that might set you up to get something later on, because you always have to be thinking about, well, I'm going to see them again,

so I can't push too hard here. But, you know, a lot of producers will put in earphones and they'll listen to the mics that are going on and they'll take notes and, you know, that's their style. My style is to just kind of just be very present and make sure the boxer knows that I'm, I'm paying attention, but like, I'm on your side. like um and um and with arrow even when the beginning of the shoot i just went over to his house and we just talked and it just kind of like talked about things we could do but ended up just being a good way to just break the ice and and have that camaraderie as you go on and just have them know

that you know we're here to sell a fight we're here to make them look good you know we want to tell an authentic story and be honest but at the end of the day like they don't need to they don't need to be afraid of all access, you know. But I will say that it is tough sometimes because you'll film them going to another interview and they'll give this great answer to somebody and you're just like, that's suck. Can you say that with the cameras are rolling? What am I doing?

But sometimes, you know, like sometimes it's just like the mood that they're in. Like it's sometimes you catch a guy, you know, feeling it, feeling themselves. Sometimes you catch a guy where he's like, I don't want to talk today. Yeah. You mean, it's, it's, you have to feel their mood every day. I mean, these guys are putting this. themselves through hell. And, you know, with Arrow especially being in that gym every day, 110 degrees, no air conditioning. Like, it's a brutal environment for all of us. Um,

so I hope they respect the fact that we, you know, we go hard. I mean, honestly, we at the drop of a hat, we'll get up and we'll go do anything. And, you know, tank hit us up at five of the morning in LA or, sorry, one of the morning in LA and asked we wanted to come film a gym session. And we had a long day and we, I turned to my crew. And again, this goes to, just having guys that are in it with you. And we're all just like, hell yeah, let's do it. How does that work? Do you keep the phone on ringer at all times? Oh, yeah.

You know, because sleep with it right by your head when you're working. And, you know, not every boxer you have to worry about that with, but, you know, some guys are night owls. Floyd was that way and tank to a certain extent is that way. But my crew has a special all access, you know, do not disturb. That's just my number just in case. So we're prepared. Is it, does it get more challenging?

Like you mentioned Tank a couple of times, and you've done a few with Tank Davis at this point. Does it get more challenging when you've done a subject over and over again? And there's always so many times you can go to the well. Like with Floyd, I mean, it did. I felt at the very end, you know, we get it. You're rich and you spend a lot of money. Like, does it get challenging, trying to come up with new ways to showcase these guys? Absolutely.

I mean, like I said before, you hit the, you check those boxes that you normally do. Like, you got the jam in nutrition and all that. So you bank that stuff just in case you need it. But yeah, it is challenging. And it depends on how they feel. Some camps guys are not feeling all access. The fight isn't big enough or whatever it may be. But a lot of it is just being observant and listening to what's going on

and then trying to pull that thread to a point that maybe there's something here. Maybe this is something different. And just hopefully put them in an environment where they can thrive. Who's the guy when you think back that just wasn't feeling it at the time? For whatever reason. That was just the most difficult. guy to crack for something like this? I think the

first camp I ever did was Caleb Plant and it was the Canello fight and you know it was tough at first but he was actually great because he gave us stuff every day but there just wasn't the same

connection that I'm always trying to get and so he was a tough not to crack and you know it was a big fight you know he was the B side of that fight and you know sometimes guys look at maybe showtime and being the a side guy so sometimes you're in that position but i just kind of broke it down and was like you know we're not here taking sides we're

here promoting the fight like we're not with canelo and so you know once we had that honest chat like things were good and um you know i hope when they see the final product they understand like why they did what they did and that it paid off and then the second time when i saw caleb it was like a totally different experience you know he had seen the final product they understand like they had seen the process play out and seen the results and that trust was there which was something that i it's something that i desperately like that's my job i try to connect with these guys and like it keeps me up at night sometimes but you know uh but that's that's the fun challenge i think how was the connection you talked a little bit about errol who's been through a lot over the years

i mean how much of that did you want to get across in in this all access um connections i worked with him on Ugas, which we focus more on the car accident and things like that. And, you know, he's, he's super honest about it. He really doesn't, there are some guys who have been through things. He doesn't hide from it, does it? He does not hide from it? He's very, yeah, he is very open about it. He, there are some guys who have things that are very touchy and, you know, you bring it up to them beforehand, and even just as out of respect. And once they're done talking about, they're done talking about, but Errol truly understands, like, his story. He has a sense for it. I remember after the Uyghoss fight, and he talks about interviews to this day.

He brings up the legendary night series on HBO. He understands legacy and how that plays out because, like a lot of people growing up, they watched 24-7 on All Access and they saw those documentaries and they saw themselves in that light. And I think when he understands that that car accident was the turning point for him. And I think he embraces that both because it makes his story more powerful and because it grounds him and reminds him of it changed him as a person and change his life. So, and it made him not take this for granted. So I appreciate the fact that he, um, leans into it so hard because it would be, it would

be a tough story to not tell you want to do it justice. You know, it's one of those things where you, it's a tough thing to ask about, but it's better just to let him tell the story. And, um, and he, he did. He never shot, why never shied away from that. That dark James Jim nowadays is like, how. with the number of just huge stars that are in it. You've got Errol, of course, at the top, Anthony, Joshua, Ryan Garcia,

John Garcia, Jermal, Charles, or Frank Martin hanging around in there. I mean, how much did you get to experience that, kind of like the presence of all of them at different times? It's super cool. We actually devoted a whole day to Derek James, like a day in the life. And, you know, speaking of that, Derek is a lot like Errol. He's a machine. He works super hard.

And he works, you know, he works just. as hard as his fighters and that's why they all respect him so much and if you ask them all that question of what are they like about derrick they'll all tell you the same thing that you know he's in here with us so his office may have the only air conditioning but you know he's still in it it's still a long day but um what i love about that gym though it is truly like you have to remove your ego to go in not only from just an environment perspective because it's hot and it's tough to be there but Derek is Derek James is Derek James and when you go to him that's what he's going to give you. And I think now guys understand that, you know, that's what they want.

And that's what I think Ryan saw the AJ, the same thing. They went to Derek because they needed someone to be honest with them. And it's not a gym where there's a ton of people around. We've all been to plenty of gyms where there's guys are like, who's that guy in the back? But he's just like, he claps. He's always, he's the hype guy. But there's none of that in this gym. it's it's a very grounded place and um so guys have to remove their egos and it's kind of crazy

to think that these are some of the biggest stars in the world um you know and i think guys like a j can appreciate it too because he's such a massive star in london he can't even walk down the street but in dallas he's he's scooting down the street no problem so um it's a it's a very cool place to be it's hot as hell and it's tough but it's worth it when you think back on you mentioned the 7-11 story with gervante davis are there others that you sit back and like that was good we got it there what jumps to mind right away when you think about big moments in in this series yeah it's funny because sometimes you do something big and then you watch it back and you're like that actually

wasn't as great as i thought it was and sometimes it's something little and it's like oh they actually got a lot out of that um you know i'm speaking of of Caleb Plant. We did. People had done with this then before, but I remember we wanted to shoot him in his Impala riding down the strip at sunset. It was a very specific request,

but he was cool with it. And like, for us as like guerrilla filmmakers, that was like the epitome of that. And we were all super excited because when we film a run or a drive, you know, we're breaking every law on the road. But like, you know, we have a minivan

and we're shooting at the side of the vans. and, you know, we're shooting him going down the strip at sunset. And I'm sitting in the back just thinking, like, this is, this is cool. And then, like, we asked him at one point, like, do you think we could, like, keep you a little bit and time this up with you driving by as the Belagio founts go up? And he was just like, yeah, that'd be cool. I'm like, I agree. And so we hopped in the van and we timed it up and we nailed the shot. And I just remember thinking, like, that was my first all access.

So I remember thinking, like, that was, that was amazing. and it's like 10 seconds in the show, but it's, it was cool. I'm trying to think of other things like, you know, having Errol with his family. I will say the best thing I think I've gotten that I'm most proud of is after the Ugas fight,

we rarely get guys after the fight the day after. Well, we'll stay behind and try, but, you know, with Spence, he had a whole cook out at his house the next day. And to be there after that, victory and just kind of see him in that environment with his family and just they're all very welcoming of us to be there for like a victory parade in a sense and also understand that Terrence Crawford was next it played out very nicely in the episode so I was proud of that one

last question for you um who would be the guy that you'd want to crack at a guy that you haven't done yet with all access that you'd love to get behind the scenes on tell that story who would that guy be. Me personally or Showtime? We can go both. Yeah. If they don't line up. You know, I think Shakurr Stevenson would be great.

I mean, obviously, I've worked with Tank a lot, so I wouldn't necessarily be on that side. But I would, he's such a great fighter. I would love to, you know, give him the all-access treatment. But I think a guy, I'm, you know, who knows, but I would love to work with Deonté Wilder. We worked with them a lot before I worked. worked on all access, and it's been a while, and obviously there's a lot that's happened since then. And I just have a lot of respect for the guy, and to work with a heavyweight is just a whole

different ballgame. And so I would love to work with a big heavyweight like Deonté, for sure. I would think AJ, too, would be good. Not that AJ hasn't been covered ad nauseum, but it's a lot of British coverage. And not to say it is in quality, but I'd love to see, you know, that kind of treatment when AJ is over in the U.S. because he's such a complicated guy and he said such a

interesting life and he's gone through so much over the last few years. Like, I feel like you guys would do a good job of getting him to open up and reveal some things that maybe he's so guarded over there because he is Anthony Joshua superstar.

He's Anthony Joshua. He's the equivalent of the quarterback of the Cowboys over there. But here, like with his guard down, I feel like that would make for some pretty compelling content. I 100% agree. And actually, you know, I got to know AJ a little bit at the gym. And I really respect him because he's very honest about, you know, his quote unquote shortcomings in the ring. And he's very hard on himself. But you could tell he just really wants to get better. And he's brutally honest with himself. And that's why he picked Eric. And I just, I respect him a lot because he's a very good person. And like you said, in England, I don't think people here have a real, like, sense of just how big he is over there. And so, honestly to see him in this environment,

him to be able to inform people of, you know, what this guy's been through and how different it is for him to be here now and what that next chapter of his career is. I think it's a very powerful thing, especially in heavyweight boxing. No question. Nick Manning, the director of the All Access series. First two episodes are available on Showtime, Showtime.com,

Showtime app. The third episode will be the epilogue episode. Is that right? You need extra cameras rolling for this one. This is like, I mean, you need everything going. the big guns. You'll see. We have like, uh, we have like, uh, let's see, I don't know, like 18 cameras rolling fight night. Really? Is that, I mean, is that more than usual? Like, is it, uh, yeah. I mean, that's for an epilogue, we're in like the 10 to 15 range for this fight. I went a little harder.

Sorry to my line producer. I don't think this such a thing is oversaturation for this fight. Like, I, I, I will want to consume every detail after the fight. I would want to know, I, I wanted to know every, like, every inch of body language on these guys. how they react, you know, to the winner, to the loser, how they feel. I mean, that's, there's not enough that I wouldn't consume for something like this. I mean, the epilogs are special. They're my favorite because, you know, those are the ones that everyone can look back on and adapt their own experience to it and get a different look at it. And, and that's where a lot of the most powerful stuff is. I've yet to be in a losing locker room and I hope this isn't it either, but

that's where a lot of the most powerful stuff comes from is, you know, when someone loses. And Even in the ring, like you caught, like the Garcia tank fight. You guys caught Ryan talking to Joe afterwards. Like you pretty much spelled out what happened there with the body shot and kind of what Joe was going through there and what was happening there. That was revealing, to say the least. Yeah. I mean, the hope is we have so many cameras and we have so many mics going on celebrities and family members that I know the epilogue is going to show stuff that people aren't seeing and put it in a context that they have. and to be able to package it in a 30-minute movie,

it's an emotional experience. Honestly, it obviously comes down to the fight at the end of the day how great the fight is. And that's where we win our Emmys, too. Spence Crawford, let's get it. Nick, appreciate your time, man. Thank you. That's it for this week's episode.

My thanks to Keith Ideck and Nick Manning for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you download podcast. And we will see you later in the week. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an

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